Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (2 Viewers)

[GDogg]

How about the fact that he just shot an unarmed man to death? Is that enough? Can't believe some of these comments.

In order to perform a drug/alcohol test on Zimmerman the police needed probable cause to believe Zimmerman was on drugs or drunk. So no, the fact that Zimmerman had just shot an unarmed man to death is not, in and of itself, probable cause to perform a drug/alcohol test on Zimmerman.

Then why did they perform a test on Martin?"Probable cause" is whatever the police says it is, when it comes to blacks. If Zimmerman had been black, of course he would have been tested. Whom are we kidding here?

Someone please tell me that this is schtick..y Does Tim really think this way?

I'll ask you the same question I asked Strike. Do you know any black people? If you do, ask them if they have ever been harrassed by the police. And then when the answer is yes (as it will be at least 99% of the time), ask them what excuses the police used for "probable cause." And then once you do this, maybe you'll understand that what I wrote is NOT schtick, but reality for black people living in this country.

I know a lot of black people, but guess what - they don't dress and act like thugs so they don't get harassed by the police.

How do thugs dress and act? Only thugs or people that "dress and act like thugs" get harassed by the police?

I don't dress or act like a thug, and I've been harassed by the police.. But I'm white so that doesn't count right?

Cool. So, then you and I agree that it's not only "thugs" or people that "dress and act like thugs" that get harassed by the police.It "counts" for purposes of saying that some cops are jerks, but no, it doesn't count in terms of the discussion regarding racial profiling. Are you of the opinion that white people get harassed by the police because of the color of their skin as often as people of color?

If I drive thru Matthews or Stallings (towns southeast of Charlotte) late night on a weekend, there is a strong chance I'm going to be followed by the police at some point.. Why? Because there is a strong likelihood that I'm coming from, going to, someplace where there is alcohol.. And those smaller towns seem to generate some income on DUI's (I assume this because the police there are notorious for hunting DUI's)The Police department is motivated to turn over criminal activity, traffic tickets, generate revenue, justify their jobs.. You think they'd prefer to do this on the backs of Black people? I don't think revenue generation sees color..

Do you think you could answer the question instead of just posting a story that doesn't answer the question?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

If I drive thru Matthews or Stallings (towns southeast of Charlotte) late night on a weekend, there is a strong chance I'm going to be followed by the police at some point.. Why? Because there is a strong likelihood that I'm coming from, going to, someplace where there is alcohol.. And those smaller towns seem to generate some income on DUI's (I assume this because the police there are notorious for hunting DUI's)The Police department is motivated to turn over criminal activity, traffic tickets, generate revenue, justify their jobs.. You think they'd prefer to do this on the backs of Black people? I don't think revenue generation sees color..

Do you think you could answer the question instead of just posting a story that doesn't answer the question?

I'd have to first agree that black people get harassed because the color of their skin in order to answer that question. I know the concept all to well, but I don't know that I agree with it.. Because like in the Tyler Perry story.. He only thinks he's being harrased.. He was actually being pulled over for doing something against the law.. And the police couldn't even tell he was black before pulling him over because his windows were tinted... It's comical how the people making the claims don't even realize how ridiculous their claim is...I've seen it a million times myself, and I've even had black people point it out to me, it's a perceived bias in some cases, and just flat out ignorance and excuses in others..

 

[timschochet]

I'd have to first agree that black people get harassed because the color of their skin in order to answer that question. I know the concept all too well, but I don't know that I agree with it..

Of course you know. Stop #####footing around here. Just come out and admit that you don't believe blacks are treated differently than whites by police.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I'd have to first agree that black people get harassed because the color of their skin in order to answer that question. I know the concept all too well, but I don't know that I agree with it..

Of course you know. Stop #####footing around here. Just come out and admit that you don't believe blacks are treated differently than whites by police.

How can I know unless I have definitive proof one way or the other... Don't be ridiculous..

 

[renesauz]

The article is ultimately wrong. Yes, there is certainly exploitation going on. But this story IS at heart a racial one, and attempts to deny it are absurd IMO. There is not a shred of doubt in my mind that Trayvon Martin would be alive today if he was white. There is not a shred of doubt in my mind that if Zimmerman was black, he'd be behind bars right now. Maybe he'd be able to use the Stand Your Ground defense at at trial, but right now he'd be in jail waiting for that trial. Blacks are rightfully outraged about this case because in general, the police in our nation do not treat black people well, and there is a double standard. Until everyone, including conservatives, realize this and try to do something to change it, stories like this one will always spark a fire, as they should.

 

[renesauz]

White people are more racist, this is indisputable.

Ridiculous assumption.

 

[renesauz]

Also, I don't think you can say difinitively that Trayvon was not a thug.. Some people will say based on his twitter content/tittle, suspensions, drugs, etc, gold teeth..that he very well could have been a thug..

This really sucks, man.

Why TIm? Seriously, based onthe twitter, etc., if I had been forced to guess thug/not thug...the choice would be easy. It's not proof, but that stuff doesn't paint the picture of an innocent little boy either.

 

[jon_mx]

If this is the best case blacks can find to be outraged about because of unfair treatment, I have to think this white man holding them down is their imagination.

 

[renesauz]

Actually, I have a lot of black friends... I have seen some of them harassed, and I've heard some of this "because I'm black" stuff.. But I've seen that line used in situations that were obviously their fault on Waaaaay more occasions than when they were questioned for no reason.. See, for some, any time they have to interact with the police, or anytime something doesn't go their way, it's "Because I'm a Black man" or "He's just prejudice".. Often used as an excuse.. There are people in this world who are white that will judge a person based upon their skin color, just like there are people in this world that are black, that will do the same, just like there are people that are just #######s to everyone.. When a black man is harassed by the police, it's "because I'm black".. What is it when a white guy is harassed by the police?I have a lot of brothers, cousins, uncles in my family, all white, and I'd say most of them have been harassed by the police at one point in their life... It's life.. People are #######s, and some police officers let the power go to their heads.. You search for answers when things don't add up.. "Must be because I'm black".. Maybe just the guy is an #######.. Or maybe the guy is just having a bad day.. Or maybe you deserved a ticket because you were speeding in a school zone you jack ###, just shut up and move on...

lots of good points in there. And I've said some of these same things to some of my black friends.

 

[Fennis]

I like when these threads turn into a comparison of how many black friends we have.

 

[renesauz]

Actually, I have a lot of black friends... I have seen some of them harassed, and I've heard some of this "because I'm black" stuff.. But I've seen that line used in situations that were obviously their fault on Waaaaay more occasions than when they were questioned for no reason.. See, for some, any time they have to interact with the police, or anytime something doesn't go their way, it's "Because I'm a Black man" or "He's just prejudice".. Often used as an excuse.. There are people in this world who are white that will judge a person based upon their skin color, just like there are people in this world that are black, that will do the same, just like there are people that are just #######s to everyone.. When a black man is harassed by the police, it's "because I'm black".. What is it when a white guy is harassed by the police?

I have a lot of brothers, cousins, uncles in my family, all white, and I'd say most of them have been harassed by the police at one point in their life... It's life.. People are #######s, and some police officers let the power go to their heads.. You search for answers when things don't add up.. "Must be because I'm black".. Maybe just the guy is an #######.. Or maybe the guy is just having a bad day.. Or maybe you deserved a ticket because you were speeding in a school zone you jack ###, just shut up and move on...

The last paragraph expresses your true viewpoint much more than the first one. At heart, you just don't accept that this sort of discrimination truly exists. You think it's simply an excuse to complain. You believe, at heart, that blacks are treated the same as whites. You believe that your brothers and cousins and uncles have all been harrassed exactly the same way blacks are. Nothing I can say will convince you otherwise, but I am 100% convinced that you are wrong, and furthermore I am 100% convinced that the fact that you are wrong about this issue shapes all of your comments about this death, most of which, IMO, are terribly misguided.

No TIm...he, and others like him, think that many Black people use this as a conveniant excuse. There's a culture of victimhood which is all too often played to, and it's gone too far. Racist cops exist, no doubt about it. But the black community puts way too much blame on the oppressive white folk, and no where near enough on their own actions and attitudes.If race played a part in this mess, it was a relatively minor one...it was NOT the driving factor in the happenings of that niught, and it's beyond absurd that we continue to make it not just a factor, but the TOP driving factor. It's disgusting, it's misleading, and it contemptible. I loathe Jackson and Sharpton...and not because they are black, but because they are ambulance chasing p**@^$%&@#s.

 

[renesauz]

I know a lot of black people, but guess what - they don't dress and act like thugs so they don't get harassed by the police.

Neither do my friends. BUt...I wouldn't be friends with a gang-banger.

 

[TexanFan02]

I like when these threads turn into a comparison of how many black friends we have.

Sigh... When people start Carolina Hustler, you know the threads gone bad.

 

[SacramentoBob]

I like when these threads turn into a comparison of how many black friends we have.

Fact: No one here has more black friends than me.

 

[renesauz]

I like when these threads turn into a comparison of how many black friends we have.

Fact: No one here has more black friends than me.

 

[Da Guru]

I like when these threads turn into a comparison of how many black friends we have.

Just last week I was at an all whitey party and my buddy said "How is that black friend of yours doing?" Everybody looked at me like I was hip....

 

[uconnalum]

Here is an excerpt from the Tampa Times article regarding gun laws in Florida. This is a slippery slope they tread on because if they arrest Zimmerman and he is found innocent he can then sue the Sanford P.D.

Potential penalties for crossing gun owners also came into play in the Trayvon Martin case, where police opted not to arrest Zimmerman. A police department can be sued if it arrests someone who is later found to be innocent under the stand your ground law.

Sanford City Manager Norton Bonaparte Jr. said in a statement that Florida statutes prohibited police from making a lawful arrest on the night Martin was killed. Bonaparte pointed to the stand your ground law, mentioning that the city could have been "held liable" if Zimmerman was later found innocent.

Here are some pro-gun laws in the state of Florida:

Steady expansion of gun ownership rights

SB 436 | 2005 |

"Stand your ground" law allows people who feel they are in grave danger to use deadly force to protect themselves.

HB 687 | 2006 |

Gives public records exemption to concealed carry weapon license holders, allowing people to own guns anonymously.

HB 503 | 2008 |

Allows gun owners to bring a firearm to work, as long as it is locked inside a car.

SB 948 | 2008 |

Increases length of concealed gun license from five to seven years.

HB 315 | 2010 |

Prohibits adoption agencies from requiring prospective adoptive parents to disclose information about gun ownership.

HB 155 | 2011 |

Prohibits medical practitioners from asking patients about whether they own a gun.

HB 5601 | 2012 |

Reduces the maximum fees for concealed weapons license from $85 to $70.

CS/HB 463 | 2012 |

Allows people under the age of 21 to obtain a gun license if they have military experience.

 

[ATC1]

Here is an excerpt from the Tampa Times article regarding gun laws in Florida. This is a slippery slope they tread on because if they arrest Zimmerman and he is found innocent he can then sue the Sanford P.D.Potential penalties for crossing gun owners also came into play in the Trayvon Martin case, where police opted not to arrest Zimmerman. A police department can be sued if it arrests someone who is later found to be innocent under the stand your ground law.Sanford City Manager Norton Bonaparte Jr. said in a statement that Florida statutes prohibited police from making a lawful arrest on the night Martin was killed. Bonaparte pointed to the stand your ground law, mentioning that the city could have been "held liable" if Zimmerman was later found innocent. Here are some pro-gun laws in the state of Florida:Steady expansion of gun ownership rightsSB 436 | 2005 |"Stand your ground" law allows people who feel they are in grave danger to use deadly force to protect themselves.HB 687 | 2006 |Gives public records exemption to concealed carry weapon license holders, allowing people to own guns anonymously.HB 503 | 2008 |Allows gun owners to bring a firearm to work, as long as it is locked inside a car.SB 948 | 2008 |Increases length of concealed gun license from five to seven years.HB 315 | 2010 |Prohibits adoption agencies from requiring prospective adoptive parents to disclose information about gun ownership.HB 155 | 2011 |Prohibits medical practitioners from asking patients about whether they own a gun.HB 5601 | 2012 |Reduces the maximum fees for concealed weapons license from $85 to $70.CS/HB 463 | 2012 |Allows people under the age of 21 to obtain a gun license if they have military experience.

That's just awful!!! I pay $100 for a 4 year permit.

 

[ATC1]

I like when these threads turn into a comparison of how many black friends we have.

Fact: No one here has more black friends than me.

But I have a gay black muslim friend to cover all bases in one.

 

[Clifford]

Glad to see the abject idiocy has not abated in my absence.

 

[jon_mx]

I like when these threads turn into a comparison of how many black friends we have.

Fact: No one here has more black friends than me.

But I have a gay black muslim friend to cover all bases in one.

Why do you hate Jewish Hispanic women so much?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I like when these threads turn into a comparison of how many black friends we have.

Sigh... When people start Carolina Hustler, you know the threads gone bad.

Please direct me to one good point you've made in this thread. Or one good post.. Or anything that wasn't meant as a coy little jab at someone you don't agree with... Did someone call you a petulant child? You gotta wonder why huh?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I like when these threads turn into a comparison of how many black friends we have.

Just last week I was at an all whitey party and my buddy said "How is that black friend of yours doing?" Everybody looked at me like I was hip....

lol

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

Also, I don't think you can say difinitively that Trayvon was not a thug.. Some people will say based on his twitter content/tittle, suspensions, drugs, etc, gold teeth..that he very well could have been a thug..

This really sucks, man.

Why TIm? Seriously, based onthe twitter, etc., if I had been forced to guess thug/not thug...the choice would be easy. It's not proof, but that stuff doesn't paint the picture of an innocent little boy either.

Clearly Timmys black friends didnt like Tupac

thug:

As Tupac defined it, a thug is someone who is going through struggles, has gone through struggles, and continues to live day by day with nothing for them. That person is a thug. and the life they are living is the thug life. A thug is NOT a gangster.

 

[PinkydaPimp]

I like when these threads turn into a comparison of how many black friends we have.

Just last week I was at an all whitey party and my buddy said "How is that black friend of yours doing?" Everybody looked at me like I was hip....

I'm pretty sure i'm that black friend that makes some of my white friends hip.

 

[The Commish]

Go away. I have no interest in your race discussion.

I'm not going anywhere. You can go if you want. Race is about the only pertinent issue in this thread. I'm not interested in your legalese discussion which has no bearing whatsoever to what really happened in this case.

Good. Stand your ground. You get a lot of ####, undeservedly so, but your opinion is as valuable as anyone else's.

Right. Problem is, most of us around here know our opinions are simply that...opinions. Tim seems to always think he knows more than the next guy and is baffled when people don't agree with him. Later in the thread, when the facts come out he straps on the crow feedbag and starts chowing down. Tim's made clear in this thread his belief is that this case is about race first and foremost. It's not about a person being shot. He insists on turning this into a racist event. Folks will lash out at that. I can't really blame them.Christo's taking a lot of heat for posting from a lawyer point of view. Personally, I find it interesting because he's looking at it from a law perspective while a lot of other folks like Tim are looking at it from a "what it should be" perspective. I find more value in the reality part than the speculation or "perfect world" part.

 

[The Commish]

I'm not interested in your legalese discussion which has no bearing whatsoever to what really happened in this case.

Then why do you keep asking legal questions?

I don't keep asking legal questions. I ask a few pertinent legal questions from time to time, and I appreciate your answers. In this particular instance as to whether or not police would have treated Zimmerman the same way had he been black, your legal opinion has no bearing.

Nor does your speculation.

 

[timschochet]

I'm not interested in your legalese discussion which has no bearing whatsoever to what really happened in this case.

Then why do you keep asking legal questions?

I don't keep asking legal questions. I ask a few pertinent legal questions from time to time, and I appreciate your answers. In this particular instance as to whether or not police would have treated Zimmerman the same way had he been black, your legal opinion has no bearing.

Nor does your speculation.

Of course it doesn't. See my sig.

 

[The Commish]

Actually, I have a lot of black friends... I have seen some of them harassed, and I've heard some of this "because I'm black" stuff.. But I've seen that line used in situations that were obviously their fault on Waaaaay more occasions than when they were questioned for no reason.. See, for some, any time they have to interact with the police, or anytime something doesn't go their way, it's "Because I'm a Black man" or "He's just prejudice".. Often used as an excuse.. There are people in this world who are white that will judge a person based upon their skin color, just like there are people in this world that are black, that will do the same, just like there are people that are just #######s to everyone.. When a black man is harassed by the police, it's "because I'm black".. What is it when a white guy is harassed by the police?

I have a lot of brothers, cousins, uncles in my family, all white, and I'd say most of them have been harassed by the police at one point in their life... It's life.. People are #######s, and some police officers let the power go to their heads.. You search for answers when things don't add up.. "Must be because I'm black".. Maybe just the guy is an #######.. Or maybe the guy is just having a bad day.. Or maybe you deserved a ticket because you were speeding in a school zone you jack ###, just shut up and move on...

The last paragraph expresses your true viewpoint much more than the first one. At heart, you just don't accept that this sort of discrimination truly exists. You think it's simply an excuse to complain. You believe, at heart, that blacks are treated the same as whites. You believe that your brothers and cousins and uncles have all been harrassed exactly the same way blacks are. Nothing I can say will convince you otherwise, but I am 100% convinced that you are wrong, and furthermore I am 100% convinced that the fact that you are wrong about this issue shapes all of your comments about this death, most of which, IMO, are terribly misguided.

No TIm...he, and others like him, think that many Black people use this as a conveniant excuse. There's a culture of victimhood which is all too often played to, and it's gone too far. Racist cops exist, no doubt about it. But the black community puts way too much blame on the oppressive white folk, and no where near enough on their own actions and attitudes.If race played a part in this mess, it was a relatively minor one...it was NOT the driving factor in the happenings of that niught, and it's beyond absurd that we continue to make it not just a factor, but the TOP driving factor. It's disgusting, it's misleading, and it contemptible. I loathe Jackson and Sharpton...and not because they are black, but because they are ambulance chasing p**@^$%&@#s.

I think a reasonable person understands there are incidents where the cops are over zealous and their are incidents where the person was wrong and pulls out the race card to attempt to take away from that fact. In the end, as it pertains to this discussion, this point really doesn't matter. What we know is that the kid is dead and the guy shot him. Until trial happens and the "facts" come out there is no point in trying to make this all about race.

 

[identikit]

Go away. I have no interest in your race discussion.

I'm not going anywhere. You can go if you want. Race is about the only pertinent issue in this thread. I'm not interested in your legalese discussion which has no bearing whatsoever to what really happened in this case.

Good. Stand your ground. You get a lot of ####, undeservedly so, but your opinion is as valuable as anyone else's.

Right. Problem is, most of us around here know our opinions are simply that...opinions. Tim seems to always think he knows more than the next guy and is baffled when people don't agree with him. Later in the thread, when the facts come out he straps on the crow feedbag and starts chowing down. Tim's made clear in this thread his belief is that this case is about race first and foremost. It's not about a person being shot. He insists on turning this into a racist event. Folks will lash out at that. I can't really blame them.Christo's taking a lot of heat for posting from a lawyer point of view. Personally, I find it interesting because he's looking at it from a law perspective while a lot of other folks like Tim are looking at it from a "what it should be" perspective. I find more value in the reality part than the speculation or "perfect world" part.

Damned

 

[Joseph]

Go away. I have no interest in your race discussion.

I'm not going anywhere. You can go if you want. Race is about the only pertinent issue in this thread. I'm not interested in your legalese discussion which has no bearing whatsoever to what really happened in this case.

Not to single tim out, but to anyone who's view is that race is the primary issue in this, What do you see as an appropriate outcome of this case? What I'm really asking is, how are you going to feel if the feds looking into this determine that it was a justifiable shooting and that there's nothing they can charge Zimmerman with? My feeling is that cops in general want to put someone in jail when a crime is committed. Here, they know the shooter, he's admitted to the shooting. They want to put him in jail, but the stand your ground law is making that difficult for them, so they have to dot their i's and cross their t's and go through a lot of hoops they otherwise wouldn't have to go through absent the stand your ground law. If at the end of the day they're unable to charge Zimmerman with anything, I don't see that as proof that he was given preferential treatment, but proof that Florida probably needs to review its stand your ground law.

 

[timschochet]

http://nation.foxnews.com/trayvon-martin/2012/04/06/un-calls-trayvon-martin-investigation

BRIDGETOWN (AFP) - UN rights chief Navi Pillay on Thursday called for an "immediate investigation" into the circumstances surrounding the February death of an unarmed black US teen, shot by a neighborhood watchman. Pillay made the comments about the controversial Trayvon Martin case at a press conference in Barbados, as she wrapped up a three-day visit to the Caribbean island nation. "As High Commissioner for Human Rights, I call for an immediate investigation," Pillay told reporters. "Justice must be done for the victim. It's not just this individual case. It calls into question the delivery of justice in all situations like this."

You know, #### like this cracks me up and infuriates me at the same time. Iit's not like I don't think racism has played a played a part in this case- I've made myself very clear on that. But when we look at most of the nations who make up the General Assembly of the United Nations, any "human rights" violations committed by the United States seems pretty mild indeed.

Countries that frequently engage in mass genocide and ethnic cleansing are somehow never investigated for human rights crimes; meanwhile the slightest action by either the United States or Israel causes waves of condemnation and outrage. The hypocrisy is overwhelming.

 

[The Commish]

I'm not interested in your legalese discussion which has no bearing whatsoever to what really happened in this case.

Then why do you keep asking legal questions?

I don't keep asking legal questions. I ask a few pertinent legal questions from time to time, and I appreciate your answers. In this particular instance as to whether or not police would have treated Zimmerman the same way had he been black, your legal opinion has no bearing.

Nor does your speculation.

Of course it doesn't. See my sig.

So you're just pissing in a thread to muck things up? I don't understand why people do thing like this. How about we all strike a deal in this thread. Folks who want to talk about the legal point of view, do it here. Those who want to talk about the race and other ancillary aspects of the case do it in the other thread?Deal?

 

[timschochet]

[i think a reasonable person understands there are incidents where the cops are over zealous and their are incidents where the person was wrong and pulls out the race card to attempt to take away from that fact. In the end, as it pertains to this discussion, this point really doesn't matter. What we know is that the kid is dead and the guy shot him. Until trial happens and the "facts" come out there is no point in trying to make this all about race.

I want to correct something. If I wrote or implied earlier that this case was ALL about race, then that was an error on my part. I think it was a reflex against a lot of people who seem to want to deny that blacks are treated differently by police. Obviously, I hold that they are, and so long as some people want to keep denying the point, I'm probably going to keep stressing it.But this case is not all about race, and I'm not trying to make it so. I think race is one of the central factors.(Yesterday I wrote that it was THE central factor, but I think I was overstating it) I don't think it should be eliminated from the discussion as several people here seem intent on doing.

 

[identikit]

I'm not interested in your legalese discussion which has no bearing whatsoever to what really happened in this case.

Then why do you keep asking legal questions?

I don't keep asking legal questions. I ask a few pertinent legal questions from time to time, and I appreciate your answers. In this particular instance as to whether or not police would have treated Zimmerman the same way had he been black, your legal opinion has no bearing.

Nor does your speculation.

Of course it doesn't. See my sig.

So you're just pissing in a thread to muck things up? I don't understand why people do thing like this. How about we all strike a deal in this thread. Folks who want to talk about the legal point of view, do it here. Those who want to talk about the race and other ancillary aspects of the case do it in the other thread?Deal?

Tim will never go for it.Not enough traffic over there.

 

[timschochet]

I'm not interested in your legalese discussion which has no bearing whatsoever to what really happened in this case.

Then why do you keep asking legal questions?

I don't keep asking legal questions. I ask a few pertinent legal questions from time to time, and I appreciate your answers. In this particular instance as to whether or not police would have treated Zimmerman the same way had he been black, your legal opinion has no bearing.

Nor does your speculation.

Of course it doesn't. See my sig.

So you're just pissing in a thread to muck things up? I don't understand why people do thing like this. How about we all strike a deal in this thread. Folks who want to talk about the legal point of view, do it here. Those who want to talk about the race and other ancillary aspects of the case do it in the other thread?Deal?

No deal.I'm not pissing in the thread. I don't believe we can separate the two topics, and any attempt to do takes away from the discussion. Were I a juror at the trial of George Zimmerman, I would eliminate from my mind any speculation about racism of the Sanford police or Mr. Zimmerman or our society in general when it came to determining his legal guilt or innocence, and based on what we know, as I have written now dozens of times, I would acquit him.But I am not a juror. I am posting in an interntet discussion board. I'm free to speculate. It is my FIRM opinion that race is a vital element in this discussion. So I'll continue to bring it up.

 

[glock]

It sure comes easy to some here to say that race has nothing to do with something- or anything- when you are not the one out of ten Americans that is a black man or woman. Mighty high horses up in here.

Walk a mile in the shoes and then get back to me.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Just realized you live 30mins from me commish... Have we ever talked about that before?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

It sure comes easy to some here to say that race has nothing to do with something- or anything- when you are not the one out of ten Americans that is a black man or woman. Mighty high horses up in here.

Walk a mile in the shoes and then get back to me.

That's just it isn't it.. No white guy can concieve the difference because you can't walk a mile in a black mans shoes, But I would contend that the same rule is in effect from the other perspective as well. How can a black man say things would be different (now-a-day) if he were white? When he can't concieve the difference? I know we've all been trianed to think this way by society, schools, media, but in my opinion, these are old traditions. We're need to leave this thought process behind.. We aren't living in the 60'sAnd it's really tiring to here the "because I'm black" excuse when someone clearly breaks the law, or breaks some moral code and then has to pay. If true rscial bias does exist, let it show itself rather than blinding everyones view of it with constant false claims.. I may have been witness to recial bias at some point, or many times, but what stands out more in my mind are all the times someone was in the wrong and used skin color as an excuse. False claims far outweigh real oness in my opinion..

 

[The Commish]

[i think a reasonable person understands there are incidents where the cops are over zealous and their are incidents where the person was wrong and pulls out the race card to attempt to take away from that fact. In the end, as it pertains to this discussion, this point really doesn't matter. What we know is that the kid is dead and the guy shot him. Until trial happens and the "facts" come out there is no point in trying to make this all about race.

I want to correct something. If I wrote or implied earlier that this case was ALL about race, then that was an error on my part. I think it was a reflex against a lot of people who seem to want to deny that blacks are treated differently by police. Obviously, I hold that they are, and so long as some people want to keep denying the point, I'm probably going to keep stressing it.But this case is not all about race, and I'm not trying to make it so. I think race is one of the central factors.(Yesterday I wrote that it was THE central factor, but I think I was overstating it) I don't think it should be eliminated from the discussion as several people here seem intent on doing.

You've said several times in this thread it was PRIMARILY about race. It's pretty clear.

 

[The Commish]

I'm not interested in your legalese discussion which has no bearing whatsoever to what really happened in this case.

Then why do you keep asking legal questions?

I don't keep asking legal questions. I ask a few pertinent legal questions from time to time, and I appreciate your answers. In this particular instance as to whether or not police would have treated Zimmerman the same way had he been black, your legal opinion has no bearing.

Nor does your speculation.

Of course it doesn't. See my sig.

So you're just pissing in a thread to muck things up? I don't understand why people do thing like this. How about we all strike a deal in this thread. Folks who want to talk about the legal point of view, do it here. Those who want to talk about the race and other ancillary aspects of the case do it in the other thread?Deal?

No deal.I'm not pissing in the thread. I don't believe we can separate the two topics, and any attempt to do takes away from the discussion. Were I a juror at the trial of George Zimmerman, I would eliminate from my mind any speculation about racism of the Sanford police or Mr. Zimmerman or our society in general when it came to determining his legal guilt or innocence, and based on what we know, as I have written now dozens of times, I would acquit him.But I am not a juror. I am posting in an interntet discussion board. I'm free to speculate. It is my FIRM opinion that race is a vital element in this discussion. So I'll continue to bring it up.

Figures. Can you AT LEAST keep your race comments in the posts talking about race? There's no need to bring it up in every one of your posts when it doesn't apply.

 

[The Commish]

Just realized you live 30mins from me commish... Have we ever talked about that before?

Not sure We can start discussion about that now. Seems like all rationale in this thread is lost. Sucks that a bad apple ruins it for everyone else. Where are you?

 

[identikit]

[i think a reasonable person understands there are incidents where the cops are over zealous and their are incidents where the person was wrong and pulls out the race card to attempt to take away from that fact. In the end, as it pertains to this discussion, this point really doesn't matter. What we know is that the kid is dead and the guy shot him. Until trial happens and the "facts" come out there is no point in trying to make this all about race.

I want to correct something. If I wrote or implied earlier that this case was ALL about race, then that was an error on my part. I think it was a reflex against a lot of people who seem to want to deny that blacks are treated differently by police. Obviously, I hold that they are, and so long as some people want to keep denying the point, I'm probably going to keep stressing it.But this case is not all about race, and I'm not trying to make it so. I think race is one of the central factors.(Yesterday I wrote that it was THE central factor, but I think I was overstating it) I don't think it should be eliminated from the discussion as several people here seem intent on doing.

You've said several times in this thread it was PRIMARILY about race. It's pretty clear.

IIRC he's said it's 'ALL' about race as well.

 

[renesauz]

I like when these threads turn into a comparison of how many black friends we have.

Just last week I was at an all whitey party and my buddy said "How is that black friend of yours doing?" Everybody looked at me like I was hip....

I'm pretty sure i'm that black friend that makes some of my white friends hip.

 

[glock]

It sure comes easy to some here to say that race has nothing to do with something- or anything- when you are not the one out of ten Americans that is a black man or woman. Mighty high horses up in here.

Walk a mile in the shoes and then get back to me.

That's just it isn't it.. No white guy can concieve the difference because you can't walk a mile in a black mans shoes, But I would contend that the same rule is in effect from the other perspective as well. How can a black man say things would be different (now-a-day) if he were white? When he can't concieve the difference? I know we've all been trianed to think this way by society, schools, media, but in my opinion, these are old traditions. We're need to leave this thought process behind.. We aren't living in the 60'sAnd it's really tiring to here the "because I'm black" excuse when someone clearly breaks the law, or breaks some moral code and then has to pay. If true rscial bias does exist, let it show itself rather than blinding everyones view of it with constant false claims.. I may have been witness to recial bias at some point, or many times, but what stands out more in my mind are all the times someone was in the wrong and used skin color as an excuse. False claims far outweigh real oness in my opinion..

The fact that you can't walk a mile in those shoes is the point. And it should preclude you from being able to pontificate on a message board about the black man's plight, state of mind- whatever. But it won't. So carry on. Next topic for you guys out there in message board land- "What it's like to be a woman attempting to climb the corporate ladder in America." I'm sure some of you guys will have a lot to say on that as well.

 

[timschochet]

[i think a reasonable person understands there are incidents where the cops are over zealous and their are incidents where the person was wrong and pulls out the race card to attempt to take away from that fact. In the end, as it pertains to this discussion, this point really doesn't matter. What we know is that the kid is dead and the guy shot him. Until trial happens and the "facts" come out there is no point in trying to make this all about race.

I want to correct something. If I wrote or implied earlier that this case was ALL about race, then that was an error on my part. I think it was a reflex against a lot of people who seem to want to deny that blacks are treated differently by police. Obviously, I hold that they are, and so long as some people want to keep denying the point, I'm probably going to keep stressing it.But this case is not all about race, and I'm not trying to make it so. I think race is one of the central factors.(Yesterday I wrote that it was THE central factor, but I think I was overstating it) I don't think it should be eliminated from the discussion as several people here seem intent on doing.

You've said several times in this thread it was PRIMARILY about race. It's pretty clear.

IIRC he's said it's 'ALL' about race as well.

If I have, I was wrong to do so.

 

[timschochet]

I'm not interested in your legalese discussion which has no bearing whatsoever to what really happened in this case.

Then why do you keep asking legal questions?

I don't keep asking legal questions. I ask a few pertinent legal questions from time to time, and I appreciate your answers. In this particular instance as to whether or not police would have treated Zimmerman the same way had he been black, your legal opinion has no bearing.

Nor does your speculation.

Of course it doesn't. See my sig.

So you're just pissing in a thread to muck things up? I don't understand why people do thing like this. How about we all strike a deal in this thread. Folks who want to talk about the legal point of view, do it here. Those who want to talk about the race and other ancillary aspects of the case do it in the other thread?Deal?

No deal.I'm not pissing in the thread. I don't believe we can separate the two topics, and any attempt to do takes away from the discussion. Were I a juror at the trial of George Zimmerman, I would eliminate from my mind any speculation about racism of the Sanford police or Mr. Zimmerman or our society in general when it came to determining his legal guilt or innocence, and based on what we know, as I have written now dozens of times, I would acquit him.But I am not a juror. I am posting in an interntet discussion board. I'm free to speculate. It is my FIRM opinion that race is a vital element in this discussion. So I'll continue to bring it up.

Figures. Can you AT LEAST keep your race comments in the posts talking about race? There's no need to bring it up in every one of your posts when it doesn't apply.

Of course I'll only bring it up when I think it applies.

 

[Pipes]

Actually, I have a lot of black friends... I have seen some of them harassed, and I've heard some of this "because I'm black" stuff.. But I've seen that line used in situations that were obviously their fault on Waaaaay more occasions than when they were questioned for no reason.. See, for some, any time they have to interact with the police, or anytime something doesn't go their way, it's "Because I'm a Black man" or "He's just prejudice".. Often used as an excuse.. There are people in this world who are white that will judge a person based upon their skin color, just like there are people in this world that are black, that will do the same, just like there are people that are just #######s to everyone.. When a black man is harassed by the police, it's "because I'm black".. What is it when a white guy is harassed by the police?

I have a lot of brothers, cousins, uncles in my family, all white, and I'd say most of them have been harassed by the police at one point in their life... It's life.. People are #######s, and some police officers let the power go to their heads.. You search for answers when things don't add up.. "Must be because I'm black".. Maybe just the guy is an #######.. Or maybe the guy is just having a bad day.. Or maybe you deserved a ticket because you were speeding in a school zone you jack ###, just shut up and move on...

The last paragraph expresses your true viewpoint much more than the first one. At heart, you just don't accept that this sort of discrimination truly exists. You think it's simply an excuse to complain. You believe, at heart, that blacks are treated the same as whites. You believe that your brothers and cousins and uncles have all been harrassed exactly the same way blacks are. Nothing I can say will convince you otherwise, but I am 100% convinced that you are wrong, and furthermore I am 100% convinced that the fact that you are wrong about this issue shapes all of your comments about this death, most of which, IMO, are terribly misguided.

No TIm...he, and others like him, think that many Black people use this as a conveniant excuse. There's a culture of victimhood which is all too often played to, and it's gone too far. Racist cops exist, no doubt about it. But the black community puts way too much blame on the oppressive white folk, and no where near enough on their own actions and attitudes.If race played a part in this mess, it was a relatively minor one...it was NOT the driving factor in the happenings of that niught, and it's beyond absurd that we continue to make it not just a factor, but the TOP driving factor. It's disgusting, it's misleading, and it contemptible. I loathe Jackson and Sharpton...and not because they are black, but because they are ambulance chasing p**@^$%&@#s.

So do you think that Trayvon would have even caught Zimmerman's eye as being suspicious if he were white? I know only Zimmerman can answer that. Race played either a huge role (Zimmerman is racist and was profiling Trayvon from the get go) or it played absolutely no role (Zimmerman's not racist and Trayvon was really up to no good). I don't really see any gray area here.

 

[timschochet]

Anyhow- those who believed that Zimmerman would be indicted this week are very likely wrong. We are now, it seems, left with two choices:

1. Zimmerman will be indicted by the Grand Jury when it convenes next week (on the 9th or 10th, though it may take a few days for the actual indictment, or longer, so it could be the week after next or even 2 weeks.)

2. Zimmerman will not be indicted.

What do you guys predict?

 

[humpback]

So do you think that Trayvon would have even caught Zimmerman's eye as being suspicious if he were white? I know only Zimmerman can answer that. Race played either a huge role (Zimmerman is racist and was profiling Trayvon from the get go) or it played absolutely no role (Zimmerman's not racist and Trayvon was really up to no good. I don't really seeing any gray area here.

I don't know if he would have, but I do know that he certainly could have. Zimmerman has called the cops on non-blacks before.