Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (2 Viewers)

[Tuco]

Well guys, it's been a good run. I'm sure there will be more to get whipped up over when the sentence comes down, one way or the other. A few years from now this will be just one of the thousands of anecdotes that makes the rest of the world scared to visit our country.

At least 2 to 1 odds Zimmerman walks, either by a hung jury or outright acquittal.

Doubt it. They don't charge crimes with those kind of odds.

They do if they think it will prevent riots in their state. They had no choice but to charge him, guilty or not.

I'm so sick of hearing this crap. It's complete BS. You have no clue as to what you're talking about, and you're impugning the good names of all sorts of public officials. Please stop.

I think I have a pretty good sense of humor. I don't find this funny at all.

We know Tim, that is what so funny about it. You are downright angry when someone states something so obviously true.

Unlike you, and most of the black people I know, I believe in the system. Best system in the world. I'm watching this woman and I refuse to believe she was co-opted.

That's just it. You're watching this woman, I saw the press conference and most of the country will see it by mid-day tomorrow. What choice did she have? Seriously, why do you trust public officials so much? Especially in extreme outlying situations like this one. There is MUCH more at play here than just Zimmerman being charged.

 

[Underachievers]

Well guys, it's been a good run. I'm sure there will be more to get whipped up over when the sentence comes down, one way or the other. A few years from now this will be just one of the thousands of anecdotes that makes the rest of the world scared to visit our country.

At least 2 to 1 odds Zimmerman walks, either by a hung jury or outright acquittal.

Doubt it. They don't charge crimes with those kind of odds.

They do if they think it will prevent riots in their state. They had no choice but to charge him, guilty or not.

I'm so sick of hearing this crap. It's complete BS. You have no clue as to what you're talking about, and you're impugning the good names of all sorts of public officials. Please stop.

I think I have a pretty good sense of humor. I don't find this funny at all.

We know Tim, that is what so funny about it. You are downright angry when someone states something so obviously true.

Unlike you, and most of the black people I know, I believe in the system. Best system in the world. I'm watching this woman and I refuse to believe she was co-opted.

There was never a chance he wasn't going to be prosecuted once this became a lynch mob mentality. Zimmerman may or may not be guilty, I don't have all the facts, none of us do. The prosecutor does, and maybe there are facts there to support the charge. What I believe many are saying is that even if the evidence isn't there, they were going to find someone who would charge him. From a public outcry and tension standpoint that was always the outcome. I think Christo and I even discussed it at some point in these 165 pages. This was a foregone conclusion.

 

[Slapdash]

Man shoots unarmed teenWow, can't believe you correctly guessed this would go to trial.

It shouldn't have gone to trial, but that meddling mob got in the way.

 

[Clifford]

Seriously, it's like half the posters here are old man Whithers who owns the haunted amusement park.

 

[The Commish]

Zimmerman in custody.

Bullet's path must have been going the wrong direction....sucks for Zimmerman. So, what are the requirements for a guilty verdict on 2nd degree murder. I know it doesn't have to be proven premeditated, what else distinguishes 1st from 2nd?

 

[ATC1]

I love this thread. :Subscribe:

 

[HellToupee]

Time for the twitter hoodies to go

 

[identikit]

Not the legal definition but a start

http://www.richardho...html#Definition

of Second Degree MurderThe crime of Second Degree Murder occurs when a person commits either:

[*]Murder with a Depraved Mind or

[*]Accomplice Felony Murder

Murder with a Depraved Mind

Murder with a Depraved Mind occurs when a person is killed, without any premeditated design, by an act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind showing no regard for human life.

The primary distinction between Premeditated First Degree Murder and Second Degree Murder with a Depraved Mind is that First Degree Murder requires a specific and premeditated intent to kill.

Accomplice Felony Murder

Accomplice Felony Second Degree Murder occurs when you are an accomplice to a person who kills another human being while engaged in the commission, or attempted commission, of the following statutorily enumerated felonies, regardless of whether they intended the death:

[*]Aggravated abuse of an elderly person or disabled adult,

[*]Aggravated child abuse,

[*]Aggravated stalking,

[*]Aircraft piracy,

[*]Arson,

[*]Burglary

[*]Carjacking,

[*]Distribution of Controlled Substances

[*]Escape,

[*]Home-invasion robbery,

[*]Kidnapping,

[*]Murder of another human being,

[*]Resisting Officer with Violence,

[*]Robbery,

[*]Sexual battery,

[*]Terrorism,

[*]Trafficking in Controlled Substances, or

[*]Unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb

 

[TexanFan02]

Zimmerman in custody.

Bullet's path must have been going the wrong direction....sucks for Zimmerman. So, what are the requirements for a guilty verdict on 2nd degree murder. I know it doesn't have to be proven premeditated, what else distinguishes 1st from 2nd?

That's about it, along with intent. Think Fennis or someone posted this earlier, but:My link

Murder with a Depraved Mind

Murder with a Depraved Mind occurs when a person is killed, without any premeditated design, by an act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind showing no regard for human life.

The primary distinction between Premeditated First Degree Murder and Second Degree Murder with a Depraved Mind is that First Degree Murder requires a specific and premeditated intent to kill.

 

[The Commish]

Well guys, it's been a good run. I'm sure there will be more to get whipped up over when the sentence comes down, one way or the other. A few years from now this will be just one of the thousands of anecdotes that makes the rest of the world scared to visit our country.

At least 2 to 1 odds Zimmerman walks, either by a hung jury or outright acquittal.

Doubt it. They don't charge crimes with those kind of odds.

They do if they think it will prevent riots in their state. They had no choice but to charge him, guilty or not.

I'm so sick of hearing this crap. It's complete BS. You have no clue as to what you're talking about, and you're impugning the good names of all sorts of public officials. Please stop.

I think I have a pretty good sense of humor. I don't find this funny at all.

We know Tim, that is what so funny about it. You are downright angry when someone states something so obviously true.

Unlike you, and most of the black people I know, I believe in the system. Best system in the world. I'm watching this woman and I refuse to believe she was co-opted.

That's just it. You're watching this woman, I saw the press conference and most of the country will see it by mid-day tomorrow. What choice did she have? Seriously, why do you trust public officials so much? Especially in extreme outlying situations like this one. There is MUCH more at play here than just Zimmerman being charged.

Wait....I've lost track. So now Tim has trust in the public officials, because just a couple days ago, he had little faith saying that it was all about race and how unfairly all black people are treated by public officials. Jeez....I need a freakin' notebook!

 

[The Commish]

Zimmerman in custody.

Bullet's path must have been going the wrong direction....sucks for Zimmerman. So, what are the requirements for a guilty verdict on 2nd degree murder. I know it doesn't have to be proven premeditated, what else distinguishes 1st from 2nd?

That's about it, along with intent. Think Fennis or someone posted this earlier, but:My link

Murder with a Depraved Mind

Murder with a Depraved Mind occurs when a person is killed, without any premeditated design, by an act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind showing no regard for human life.

The primary distinction between Premeditated First Degree Murder and Second Degree Murder with a Depraved Mind is that First Degree Murder requires a specific and premeditated intent to kill.

Thanks!

 

[TexanFan02]

If you don't want to be tried for murder, don't shoot people.

How dare you bring logic into this thread! Why do you hate Florida?

 

[identikit]

Wait....I've lost track. So now Tim has trust in the public officials, because just a couple days ago, he had little faith saying that it was all about race and how unfairly all black people are treated by public officials. Jeez....I need a freakin' notebook!

Notebooks won't work for Tim.He's an ace backpedaller.

 

[timschochet]

Wait....I've lost track. So now Tim has trust in the public officials, because just a couple days ago, he had little faith saying that it was all about race and how unfairly all black people are treated by public officials. Jeez....I need a freakin' notebook!

Yep. No contradiction whatsoever. I have faith in the system. I don't like the way that blacks are treated by police, and I think it may have affected this case in the early stages. But where I have always differed with some of my more progressive friends (including the black ones) is that ultimately I believe. Mistakes are made. Deliberate wrongs happen. But we live in the greatest country on Earth and our justice system is a part of it. I'm not ashamed to say it, and I'm not ashamed to be called naive. I believe.

 

[jon_mx]

Seriously, it's like half the posters here are old man Whithers who owns the haunted amusement park.

I kick puppy dogs.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I hope she knows something we don't know. A lot to put a man through for no outcome.. Either way, guilty or not, the mob gets what they want, Zimmermans life to be completely turned inside out from no till cunclusion. But at least, if he's not guilty, all of the facts will be publicly accessed and he can officially be vindicated. His life after trial, if not guilty will probably be better this way.

 

[The Commish]

Wait....I've lost track. So now Tim has trust in the public officials, because just a couple days ago, he had little faith saying that it was all about race and how unfairly all black people are treated by public officials. Jeez....I need a freakin' notebook!

Yep. No contradiction whatsoever. I have faith in the system. I don't like the way that blacks are treated by police, and I think it may have affected this case in the early stages. But where I have always differed with some of my more progressive friends (including the black ones) is that ultimately I believe. Mistakes are made. Deliberate wrongs happen. But we live in the greatest country on Earth and our justice system is a part of it. I'm not ashamed to say it, and I'm not ashamed to be called naive. I believe.

Only in your world is it not a contradiction to say "I have faith in our public officials" then "Our public officials can't be trusted to treat everyone equally"

 

[The Commish]

I hope she knows something we don't know. A lot to put a man through for no outcome.. Either way, guilty or not, the mob gets what they want, Zimmermans life to be completely turned inside out from no till cunclusion. But at least, if he's not guilty, all of the facts will be publicly accessed and he can officially be vindicated. His life after trial, if not guilty will probably be better this way.

My guess is, like most cases, not all the facts are out there in the general public.

 

[identikit]

Time for the twitter hoodies to go

 

[Carolina Hustler]

If you don't want to be tried for murder, don't shoot people.

If I have a gun, and someone has me pinned, beating my head against the concrete, I'm punchin holes in him.. I don't care what color he is.. There is a time when shooting someone is warranted..

 

[Clifford]

Wait....I've lost track. So now Tim has trust in the public officials, because just a couple days ago, he had little faith saying that it was all about race and how unfairly all black people are treated by public officials. Jeez....I need a freakin' notebook!

Yep. No contradiction whatsoever. I have faith in the system. I don't like the way that blacks are treated by police, and I think it may have affected this case in the early stages. But where I have always differed with some of my more progressive friends (including the black ones) is that ultimately I believe. Mistakes are made. Deliberate wrongs happen. But we live in the greatest country on Earth and our justice system is a part of it. I'm not ashamed to say it, and I'm not ashamed to be called naive. I believe.

The important thing to note is that Tim has black friends...in case you missed the first reference he reposted it here

 

[timschochet]

Wait....I've lost track. So now Tim has trust in the public officials, because just a couple days ago, he had little faith saying that it was all about race and how unfairly all black people are treated by public officials. Jeez....I need a freakin' notebook!

Notebooks won't work for Tim.He's an ace backpedaller.

I don't think I am. But here's what I will concede to you guys:Like many of you, I will be watching this case very closely, because it fascinates me. If it turns out that the prosecution has no more evidence out there than we know at this present time (or at least, no more evidence of a decisive nature), then I will sadly conclude that I was wrong about this, and that those of you who disagree with me are right- that this woman must have been pressured into charging Zimmerman, that she should not have charged him. I will feel that way whether or not Zimmerman is ultimately convicted. There had better be new evidence. Otherwise the system is not what I thought it was. If Zimmerman is convicted based on the evidence the public knows now, that will be a travesty of justice. Zimmerman's actual guilt or innocence is much less relevant to me than the integrity of the system. There HAS to be new evidence, or there's been a royal screwing here.

 

[Clifford]

If you don't want to be tried for murder, don't shoot people.

If I have a gun, and someone has me pinned, beating my head against the concrete, I'm punchin holes in him.. I don't care what color he is.. There is a time when shooting someone is warranted..

Any time you pick a fight you can't finish. Good call CH. Glad to know you're man enough to kill someone.

 

[Christo]

Wait....I've lost track. So now Tim has trust in the public officials, because just a couple days ago, he had little faith saying that it was all about race and how unfairly all black people are treated by public officials. Jeez....I need a freakin' notebook!

Yep. No contradiction whatsoever. I have faith in the system. I don't like the way that blacks are treated by police, and I think it may have affected this case in the early stages. But where I have always differed with some of my more progressive friends (including the black ones) is that ultimately I believe. Mistakes are made. Deliberate wrongs happen. But we live in the greatest country on Earth and our justice system is a part of it. I'm not ashamed to say it, and I'm not ashamed to be called naive. I believe.

Only in your world is it not a contradiction to say "I have faith in our public officials" then "Our public officials can't be trusted to treat everyone equally"

You're talking about the guy who said that he thought Zimmerman was guilty of murder or manslaughter and he wanted him to go to prison but claims he didn't mean it in the "legal sense."

 

[BustedKnuckles]

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I hope she knows something we don't know. A lot to put a man through for no outcome.. Either way, guilty or not, the mob gets what they want, Zimmermans life to be completely turned inside out from no till cunclusion. But at least, if he's not guilty, all of the facts will be publicly accessed and he can officially be vindicated. His life after trial, if not guilty will probably be better this way.

My guess is, like most cases, not all the facts are out there in the general public.

I'm sure, but this is a travesty for Zimmerman if there is proof of his innocence and the prosicution was purely to quiet the mob..

 

[TexanFan02]

Wait....I've lost track. So now Tim has trust in the public officials, because just a couple days ago, he had little faith saying that it was all about race and how unfairly all black people are treated by public officials. Jeez....I need a freakin' notebook!

Yep. No contradiction whatsoever. I have faith in the system. I don't like the way that blacks are treated by police, and I think it may have affected this case in the early stages. But where I have always differed with some of my more progressive friends (including the black ones) is that ultimately I believe. Mistakes are made. Deliberate wrongs happen. But we live in the greatest country on Earth and our justice system is a part of it. I'm not ashamed to say it, and I'm not ashamed to be called naive. I believe.

Only in your world is it not a contradiction to say "I have faith in our public officials" then "Our public officials can't be trusted to treat everyone equally"

You're talking about the guy who said that he thought Zimmerman was guilty of murder or manslaughter and he wanted him to go to prison but claims he didn't mean it in the "legal sense."

I thought about half the time he thought he was guilty but felt there was absolutely no way he could convict.

Huh.

 

[identikit]

Wait....I've lost track. So now Tim has trust in the public officials, because just a couple days ago, he had little faith saying that it was all about race and how unfairly all black people are treated by public officials. Jeez....I need a freakin' notebook!

Yep. No contradiction whatsoever. I have faith in the system. I don't like the way that blacks are treated by police, and I think it may have affected this case in the early stages. But where I have always differed with some of my more progressive friends (including the black ones) is that ultimately I believe. Mistakes are made. Deliberate wrongs happen. But we live in the greatest country on Earth and our justice system is a part of it. I'm not ashamed to say it, and I'm not ashamed to be called naive. I believe.

The important thing to note is that Tim has black friends...in case you missed the first reference he reposted it here

GEORGE COSTANZA Maybe if he could see me with some of my black friends...JERRY SEINFELD That would be great except that you don't really have any black friends. [pauses] Outside of us, you don't really have any white friends, either...

 

[jon_mx]

Wait....I've lost track. So now Tim has trust in the public officials, because just a couple days ago, he had little faith saying that it was all about race and how unfairly all black people are treated by public officials. Jeez....I need a freakin' notebook!

Notebooks won't work for Tim.He's an ace backpedaller.

I don't think I am. But here's what I will concede to you guys:Like many of you, I will be watching this case very closely, because it fascinates me. If it turns out that the prosecution has no more evidence out there than we know at this present time (or at least, no more evidence of a decisive nature), then I will sadly conclude that I was wrong about this, and that those of you who disagree with me are right- that this woman must have been pressured into charging Zimmerman, that she should not have charged him. I will feel that way whether or not Zimmerman is ultimately convicted. There had better be new evidence. Otherwise the system is not what I thought it was. If Zimmerman is convicted based on the evidence the public knows now, that will be a travesty of justice. Zimmerman's actual guilt or innocence is much less relevant to me than the integrity of the system. There HAS to be new evidence, or there's been a royal screwing here.

 

[Christo]

If you don't want to be tried for murder, don't shoot people.

If I have a gun, and someone has me pinned, beating my head against the concrete, I'm punchin holes in him.. I don't care what color he is.. There is a time when shooting someone is warranted..

Any time you pick a fight you can't finish. Good call CH. Glad to know you're man enough to kill someone.

So asking someone what they are doing is picking a fight now?

 

[timschochet]

I hope she knows something we don't know. A lot to put a man through for no outcome.. Either way, guilty or not, the mob gets what they want, Zimmermans life to be completely turned inside out from no till cunclusion. But at least, if he's not guilty, all of the facts will be publicly accessed and he can officially be vindicated. His life after trial, if not guilty will probably be better this way.

My guess is, like most cases, not all the facts are out there in the general public.

I'm sure, but this is a travesty for Zimmerman if there is proof of his innocence and the prosicution was purely to quiet the mob..

That's what I wrote too Carolina. On this point, we agree 100%. IF there is proof.

 

[timschochet]

You're talking about the guy who said that he thought Zimmerman was guilty of murder or manslaughter and he wanted him to go to prison but claims he didn't mean it in the "legal sense."

Is the point of this thread to rip timschochet, or is it to discuss the Trayvon Martin death??Don't answer that.

 

[Neofight]

You're talking about the guy who said that he thought Zimmerman was guilty of murder or manslaughter and he wanted him to go to prison but claims he didn't mean it in the "legal sense."

Is the point of this thread to rip timschochet, or is it to discuss the Trayvon Martin death??Don't answer that.

I thought he was done with you?

 

[Christo]

You're talking about the guy who said that he thought Zimmerman was guilty of murder or manslaughter and he wanted him to go to prison but claims he didn't mean it in the "legal sense."

Is the point of this thread to rip timschochet, or is it to discuss the Trayvon Martin death??Don't answer that.

I thought he was done with you?

I am. I was talking to The Commish.

 

[ATC1]

Man shoots unarmed teenWow, can't believe you correctly guessed this would go to trial.

I feel like I'm watching A Few Good Men. He killed a good ole unarmed teenager. There is no way he is not going to trial.I'm glad because I want the truth. Problem is that I don't think many people on here can handle the truth.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

If you don't want to be tried for murder, don't shoot people.

If I have a gun, and someone has me pinned, beating my head against the concrete, I'm punchin holes in him.. I don't care what color he is.. There is a time when shooting someone is warranted..

Any time you pick a fight you can't finish. Good call CH. Glad to know you're man enough to kill someone.

^ Typical for you, I made a reasonable statment. You attack me personally because I state my belief.. If you are ever in the position to need to use a gun, don't use it.. Your choice.. I didn't say I'd pick a fight and shoot someone, I don't start fights. But regardless, if my life is in danger I'll use whatever means necisary to swing the odds in my favor, and if I have a gun, I'm using it.BTW, you don't know that Zimmerman started a fight...

 

[FavreCo]

Rioters rejoice as they are 1 step closer to that brand new flat screen TV, ask judge for a speedy trial.

 

[Neofight]

You're talking about the guy who said that he thought Zimmerman was guilty of murder or manslaughter and he wanted him to go to prison but claims he didn't mean it in the "legal sense."

Is the point of this thread to rip timschochet, or is it to discuss the Trayvon Martin death??Don't answer that.

I thought he was done with you?

I am. I was talking to The Commish.

Well it's a good thing you didn't say anything about Tim that might prompt him to respond.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Man shoots unarmed teenWow, can't believe you correctly guessed this would go to trial.

I feel like I'm watching A Few Good Men. He killed a good ole unarmed teenager. There is no way he is not going to trial.I'm glad because I want the truth. Problem is that I don't think many people on here can handle the truth.

Good Posting

 

[timschochet]

Mark O' Mara- new attorney for the defense. Just heard him on CNN. Says he's too new to the case to discuss it, but was "very surprised" by the charge of 2nd degree murder.

 

[ATC1]

If you don't want to be tried for murder, don't shoot people.

If I have a gun, and someone has me pinned, beating my head against the concrete, I'm punchin holes in him.. I don't care what color he is.. There is a time when shooting someone is warranted..

Any time you pick a fight you can't finish. Good call CH. Glad to know you're man enough to kill someone.

^ Typical for you, I made a reasonable statment. You attack me personally because I state my belief.. If you are ever in the position to need to use a gun, don't use it.. Your choice.. I didn't say I'd pick a fight and shoot someone, I don't start fights. But regardless, if my life is in danger I'll use whatever means necisary to swing the odds in my favor, and if I have a gun, I'm using it.BTW, you don't know that Zimmerman started a fight...

I don't know if I'm "man" enough to kill someone. I hope I never have to find out. However, I want the choice to defend myself when I feel like it is justified to protect me or my family.

 

[SacramentoBob]

If you don't want to be tried for murder, don't shoot people.

Stab them instead.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Love how the pro-Zimm crowd is backpedaling to "well she had no choice but to charge him now".

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Zimmerman killed someone - he should have to prove his case in a court of law. Just a hunch based on the fact that Z is almost certainly rowing with one paddle, but I bet there are parts of his story that are just plain false and beating the rap isn't a given even in Florida.

 

[Christo]

The prosecution has a tough row to hoe. Here's the Florida jury instruction on Second Degree Murder:

7.4 MURDER—SECOND DEGREE

§ 782.04(2), Fla.Stat.

To prove the crime of Second Degree Murder, the State must prove the following three

elements beyond a reasonable doubt:

1. (Victim) is dead.

2. The death was caused by the criminal act of (defendant).

3. There was an unlawful killing of (victim) by an act imminently dangerous to another

and demonstrating a depraved mind without regard for human life.

Definitions.

An ―act includes a series of related actions arising from and performed pursuant to a

single design or purpose.

An act is ―imminently dangerous to another and demonstrating a depraved mind if it is an

act or series of acts that:

1. a person of ordinary judgment would know is reasonably certain to kill or do

serious bodily injury to another, and

2. is done from ill will, hatred, spite, or an evil intent, and

3. is of such a nature that the act itself indicates an indifference to human life.

In order to convict of Second Degree Murder, it is not necessary for the State to prove the

defendant had an intent to cause death.

http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/jury_instructions/chapters/entireversion/onlinejurryinstructions.pdf

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Love how the pro-Zimm crowd is backpedaling to "well she had no choice but to charge him now".

 

[Christo]

Zimmerman killed someone - he should have to prove his case in a court of law. Just a hunch based on the fact that Z is almost certainly rowing with one paddle, but I bet there are parts of his story that are just plain false and beating the rap isn't a given even in Florida.

That's not the way it works.

 

[timschochet]

Christo has stated several times in this thread that Zimmerman must testify in his own behalf. He (Christo) has explained that this is necessary because Zimmerman's defense will be that he acted in self-defense. I am not enough of a legal expert to give an opinion on this, but I can't remember the last time in one of these high-profile cases the accused actually took the stand.

Any of you guys with some legal expertise agree with Christo on this point? Do you really think Zimmerman will testify? I hope Christo is right, especially if the case is televised, because that will make extreme drama.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Love how the pro-Zimm crowd is backpedaling to "well she had no choice but to charge him now".

Love how the this ^ anti-Zimmerman mob member thinks anyone who refused to say Zimmerman was guilty automaticly insisted Zimmerman is inocent.. And now claiming victory.. PMSL..

 

[ATC1]

Zimmerman killed someone - he should have to prove his case in a court of law. Just a hunch based on the fact that Z is almost certainly rowing with one paddle, but I bet there are parts of his story that are just plain false and beating the rap isn't a given even in Florida.

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?