Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (1 Viewer)

[Jojo the circus boy]

pretty good analysis of what went down today (starting with opening statements)

People will especially enjoy all the anti-Obama and anti-Dem stuff in the cartoon section of that blog, as well as the archives.

That's a big giant "pass" of a link.

Glad to see you actually bashed the content of the article. Move along indeed.

The author:

Andrew F. Branca is in his third decade of practicing law in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. He wrote the first edition of the “Law of Self Defense” in 1997, and is currently in the process of completing the fully revised and updated second edition, which you can preorder now at lawofselfdefense.com. He began his competitive shooting activities as a youth in smallbore rifle, and today is a Life Member of the National Rifle Association (NRA) and a Life Member and Master-class competitor in multiple classifications in the International Defenseive Pistol Association (IDPA). Andrew has for many years been an NRA-certified firearms instructor in pistol, rifle, and personal protection, and has previously served as an Adjunct Instructor on the Law of Self Defense at the SigSauer Academy in Epping, NH. He holds or has held concealed carry permits for Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New Hampshire, Maine, Pennsylvania, Florida, Utah, Virginia, and other states.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

So from the point of view of someone who doesn't have a dog in the fight today was about a very tasteless joke early on, but after witnesses started, it actually got interesting. I learned that Zimmerman was calm. He certainly sounded calm on the phone (not really sure what that means yet). He also had already made several assumptions about a kid he's never seen before. He decided, against the advice of the police, to do his own thing. Dispatch could see, based on the information they were given, through Zimmerman's filter, why he might follow Martin (not sure what this means yet). The fact remains their advice was to stay put even after getting this information.

This is all irrelevant. The only thing that matters is what was going on when Zimmerman pulled the trigger. Was Zimmerman screaming for his life or was Martin. m

Yes and no. You keep repeating this, but I am not convinced that the jury is going to zone out everything else the way you are. Both sides are trying to set up certain conditions that will make things believable later on. For instance, if you are inclined to believe that Zimmerman basically followed instructions from the 911 operator, you will probably be more inclined to believe that Martin attacked him. On the other hand, if you are inclined to believe that Zimmerman ignored the operator and did his own thing, you will be more likely to be suspicious of any testimony given by Zimmerman regarding what actually happened once the confrontation started.

What i find interesting during the 911 call is that dispatch says to george are you following him and he says ya,its more than a minute later that he wouldnt tell dispatch his address because he doesnt know where this guy is(meaning trey could hear him if he says it) .That tells me zimm had to have been walking around between the buildings where the T is looking for trey. Now if trey looked back at zimm and saw him getting out of his truck he must have just dove behind something around the corner and just hid there. Seeing zimm walking around for a whole minute would be scary and or concerning to ANYONE in that situation. If zimm stopped when he was told to and was returning to his truck there would be no way trey would hear him say his address....IMO

This exact thought crossed my mind. If he were in his truck, logically his windows would be up (since it was raining). How is this kid going to hear him?

No one said he was in his truck.. He could have already been standing at the intersection when that took place.. "between 2 buildings" as the testimony from the 911 operator agreed to..

i know he wasnt at the truck...he was walking around looking for trey

I'd like to see your surveillance videos.. The ones in your imagination..

dont need one...just need zimmys own words

 

[BigSteelThrill]

pretty good analysis of what went down today (starting with opening statements)

People will especially enjoy all the anti-Obama and anti-Dem stuff in the cartoon section of that blog, as well as the archives.

That's a big giant "pass" of a link.

Glad to see you actually bashed the content of the article. Move along indeed.

The author:

Andrew F. Branca is in his third decade of practicing law in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. He wrote the first edition of the “Law of Self Defense” in 1997, and is currently in the process of completing the fully revised and updated second edition, which you can preorder now at lawofselfdefense.com. He began his competitive shooting activities as a youth in smallbore rifle, and today is a Life Member of the National Rifle Association (NRA) and a Life Member and Master-class competitor in multiple classifications in the International Defenseive Pistol Association (IDPA). Andrew has for many years been an NRA-certified firearms instructor in pistol, rifle, and personal protection, and has previously served as an Adjunct Instructor on the Law of Self Defense at the SigSauer Academy in Epping, NH. He holds or has held concealed carry permits for Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New Hampshire, Maine, Pennsylvania, Florida, Utah, Virginia, and other states.

Wouldnt give that site my clicks and hits.

I always peruse the websites to see if they are worthy of my time.

This one showed itself as only listing one side of the street on pretty much everything. And then going even further in the attacks and rhetoric.

 

[The Commish]

So from the point of view of someone who doesn't have a dog in the fight today was about a very tasteless joke early on, but after witnesses started, it actually got interesting. I learned that Zimmerman was calm. He certainly sounded calm on the phone (not really sure what that means yet). He also had already made several assumptions about a kid he's never seen before. He decided, against the advice of the police, to do his own thing. Dispatch could see, based on the information they were given, through Zimmerman's filter, why he might follow Martin (not sure what this means yet). The fact remains their advice was to stay put even after getting this information.

This is all irrelevant. The only thing that matters is what was going on when Zimmerman pulled the trigger. Was Zimmerman screaming for his life or was Martin. m

Yes and no. You keep repeating this, but I am not convinced that the jury is going to zone out everything else the way you are. Both sides are trying to set up certain conditions that will make things believable later on. For instance, if you are inclined to believe that Zimmerman basically followed instructions from the 911 operator, you will probably be more inclined to believe that Martin attacked him. On the other hand, if you are inclined to believe that Zimmerman ignored the operator and did his own thing, you will be more likely to be suspicious of any testimony given by Zimmerman regarding what actually happened once the confrontation started.

What i find interesting during the 911 call is that dispatch says to george are you following him and he says ya,its more than a minute later that he wouldnt tell dispatch his address because he doesnt know where this guy is(meaning trey could hear him if he says it) .That tells me zimm had to have been walking around between the buildings where the T is looking for trey. Now if trey looked back at zimm and saw him getting out of his truck he must have just dove behind something around the corner and just hid there. Seeing zimm walking around for a whole minute would be scary and or concerning to ANYONE in that situation. If zimm stopped when he was told to and was returning to his truck there would be no way trey would hear him say his address....IMO

This exact thought crossed my mind. If he were in his truck, logically his windows would be up (since it was raining). How is this kid going to hear him?

No one said he was in his truck.. He could have already been standing at the intersection when that took place.. "between 2 buildings" as the testimony from the 911 operator agreed to..

So what's the generally believed timeline of events by the Zimmerman defenders? I'm not going back, digging through 300+ pages of 5 digit drivel to find the consensus.

He calls 911, has the conversation as established today. What does he do during that conversation and where does he end up at the end of that conversation?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

So what's the generally believed timeline of events by the Zimmerman defenders? I'm not going back, digging through 300+ pages of 5 digit drivel to find the consensus.

He calls 911, has the conversation as established today. What does he do during that conversation and where does he end up at the end of that conversation?

We don't know exactly, but it could have gone down like this:

Zimmerman gets out of his truck and walks/jogs/runs (who knows) to the edge of the building, trayvon has already ducted behind something, zimmerman says "he's gone", Zimmerman walks/jogs/runs (who knows) to the other side of the next building to either see if he sees trayvon running to the back entrance, or get an address, sometime in between gets off the phone.. Starts walking back through the area between the buildings, Trayvon who has been watching and now doesn't view Zimmerman as a physical threat (Zimmerman is shorter, and "soft") gets the courage to confront and pops out of hiding "hey, why you following me?".. Then confrontation gets physical from one side or the other.. and the rest we know..

 

[timschochet]

So from the point of view of someone who doesn't have a dog in the fight today was about a very tasteless joke early on, but after witnesses started, it actually got interesting. I learned that Zimmerman was calm. He certainly sounded calm on the phone (not really sure what that means yet). He also had already made several assumptions about a kid he's never seen before. He decided, against the advice of the police, to do his own thing. Dispatch could see, based on the information they were given, through Zimmerman's filter, why he might follow Martin (not sure what this means yet). The fact remains their advice was to stay put even after getting this information.

This is all irrelevant. The only thing that matters is what was going on when Zimmerman pulled the trigger. Was Zimmerman screaming for his life or was Martin. m

Yes and no. You keep repeating this, but I am not convinced that the jury is going to zone out everything else the way you are. Both sides are trying to set up certain conditions that will make things believable later on. For instance, if you are inclined to believe that Zimmerman basically followed instructions from the 911 operator, you will probably be more inclined to believe that Martin attacked him. On the other hand, if you are inclined to believe that Zimmerman ignored the operator and did his own thing, you will be more likely to be suspicious of any testimony given by Zimmerman regarding what actually happened once the confrontation started.

What i find interesting during the 911 call is that dispatch says to george are you following him and he says ya,its more than a minute later that he wouldnt tell dispatch his address because he doesnt know where this guy is(meaning trey could hear him if he says it) .That tells me zimm had to have been walking around between the buildings where the T is looking for trey. Now if trey looked back at zimm and saw him getting out of his truck he must have just dove behind something around the corner and just hid there. Seeing zimm walking around for a whole minute would be scary and or concerning to ANYONE in that situation. If zimm stopped when he was told to and was returning to his truck there would be no way trey would hear him say his address....IMO

This exact thought crossed my mind. If he were in his truck, logically his windows would be up (since it was raining). How is this kid going to hear him?

No one said he was in his truck.. He could have already been standing at the intersection when that took place.. "between 2 buildings" as the testimony from the 911 operator agreed to..

So what's the generally believed timeline of events by the Zimmerman defenders? I'm not going back, digging through 300+ pages of 5 digit drivel to find the consensus.

He calls 911, has the conversation as established today. What does he do during that conversation and where does he end up at the end of that conversation?

Most of the speculation, especially by Zimmerman's defenders here, hasn't been about what Zimmerman did, but what Martin did. The main argument being that Martin didn't walk straight home, because he should have made it by then. Which implies that he was either (a) planning to rob somebody or (b) lying in wait to attack Zimmerman, or both.

Carolina Hustler, among others, has speculated that Zimmerman was headed back to his car and that it was Martin stalking Zimmerman, not the other way around. Even Zimmerman's defense team hasn't tried to argue this crazy theory.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

pretty good analysis of what went down today (starting with opening statements)

People will especially enjoy all the anti-Obama and anti-Dem stuff in the cartoon section of that blog, as well as the archives.

That's a big giant "pass" of a link.

Glad to see you actually bashed the content of the article. Move along indeed.

The author:

Andrew F. Branca is in his third decade of practicing law in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. He wrote the first edition of the “Law of Self Defense” in 1997, and is currently in the process of completing the fully revised and updated second edition, which you can preorder now at lawofselfdefense.com. He began his competitive shooting activities as a youth in smallbore rifle, and today is a Life Member of the National Rifle Association (NRA) and a Life Member and Master-class competitor in multiple classifications in the International Defenseive Pistol Association (IDPA). Andrew has for many years been an NRA-certified firearms instructor in pistol, rifle, and personal protection, and has previously served as an Adjunct Instructor on the Law of Self Defense at the SigSauer Academy in Epping, NH. He holds or has held concealed carry permits for Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New Hampshire, Maine, Pennsylvania, Florida, Utah, Virginia, and other states.

Wouldnt give that site my clicks and hits.

I always peruse the websites to see if they are worthy of my time.

This one showed itself as only listing one side of the street on pretty much everything. And then going even further in the attacks and rhetoric.

wow...

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Most of the speculation, especially by Zimmerman's defenders here, hasn't been about what Zimmerman did, but what Martin did. The main argument being that Martin didn't walk straight home, because he should have made it by then. Which implies that he was either (a) planning to rob somebody or (b) lying in wait to attack Zimmerman, or both.

Carolina Hustler, among others, has speculated that Zimmerman was headed back to his car and that it was Martin stalking Zimmerman, not the other way around. Even Zimmerman's defense team hasn't tried to argue this crazy theory.

Zimmerman's defense team has attempted to address the distance between Trayvon's dads house and the incident.. The timeline issue is coming.. Just like many other things you've suggested wouldn't happen..

 

[BustedKnuckles]

So from the point of view of someone who doesn't have a dog in the fight today was about a very tasteless joke early on, but after witnesses started, it actually got interesting. I learned that Zimmerman was calm. He certainly sounded calm on the phone (not really sure what that means yet). He also had already made several assumptions about a kid he's never seen before. He decided, against the advice of the police, to do his own thing. Dispatch could see, based on the information they were given, through Zimmerman's filter, why he might follow Martin (not sure what this means yet). The fact remains their advice was to stay put even after getting this information.

This is all irrelevant. The only thing that matters is what was going on when Zimmerman pulled the trigger. Was Zimmerman screaming for his life or was Martin. m

Yes and no. You keep repeating this, but I am not convinced that the jury is going to zone out everything else the way you are. Both sides are trying to set up certain conditions that will make things believable later on. For instance, if you are inclined to believe that Zimmerman basically followed instructions from the 911 operator, you will probably be more inclined to believe that Martin attacked him. On the other hand, if you are inclined to believe that Zimmerman ignored the operator and did his own thing, you will be more likely to be suspicious of any testimony given by Zimmerman regarding what actually happened once the confrontation started.

What i find interesting during the 911 call is that dispatch says to george are you following him and he says ya,its more than a minute later that he wouldnt tell dispatch his address because he doesnt know where this guy is(meaning trey could hear him if he says it) .That tells me zimm had to have been walking around between the buildings where the T is looking for trey. Now if trey looked back at zimm and saw him getting out of his truck he must have just dove behind something around the corner and just hid there. Seeing zimm walking around for a whole minute would be scary and or concerning to ANYONE in that situation. If zimm stopped when he was told to and was returning to his truck there would be no way trey would hear him say his address....IMO

This exact thought crossed my mind. If he were in his truck, logically his windows would be up (since it was raining). How is this kid going to hear him?

No one said he was in his truck.. He could have already been standing at the intersection when that took place.. "between 2 buildings" as the testimony from the 911 operator agreed to..

So what's the generally believed timeline of events by the Zimmerman defenders? I'm not going back, digging through 300+ pages of 5 digit drivel to find the consensus.

He calls 911, has the conversation as established today. What does he do during that conversation and where does he end up at the end of that conversation?

We don't know exactly, but it could have gone down like this:

Zimmerman gets out of his truck and walks/jogs/runs (who knows) to the edge of the building, trayvon has already ducted behind something, zimmerman says "he's gone", Zimmerman walks/jogs/runs (who knows) to the other side of the next building to either see if he sees trayvon running to the back entrance, or get an address, sometime in between gets off the phone.. Starts walking back through the area between the buildings, Trayvon who has been watching and now doesn't view Zimmerman as a physical threat (Zimmerman is shorter, and "soft") gets the courage to confront and pops out of hiding "hey, why you following me?".. Then confrontation gets physical from one side or the other.. and the rest we know..

sounds like what i said...

 

[cstu]

KNOCK KNOCK.

Which no one on the jury found funny.

http://www.businessinsider.com/zimmerman-defense-attorney-tells-knock-knock-joke-2013-6

Zimmerman's Defense Attorney Tells Knock-Knock Joke During Opening Statements, Gets No Laughs From Jury

He (West) then went on to tell a bizarre knock-knock joke that he acknowledge could be received badly by the jury.

"Sometimes, you have to laugh to keep from crying," West said. "So let me, at considerable risk, let me say: I'd like to tell you a little joke."



West told the courtroom: "I think you're the perfect audience for it, as long as if you don't like it … you don't hold it against Mr. Zimmerman."



"Here's how it goes: knock, knock. Who's there? George Zimmerman. George Zimmerman who? All right, good, you're on the jury."

The joke didn't elicit any laughs. West asked: "Nothing? That's funny."

the laughs came after the "Nothing? That's funny."

Horrible delivery, but funny joke.

 

[The Commish]

So from the point of view of someone who doesn't have a dog in the fight today was about a very tasteless joke early on, but after witnesses started, it actually got interesting. I learned that Zimmerman was calm. He certainly sounded calm on the phone (not really sure what that means yet). He also had already made several assumptions about a kid he's never seen before. He decided, against the advice of the police, to do his own thing. Dispatch could see, based on the information they were given, through Zimmerman's filter, why he might follow Martin (not sure what this means yet). The fact remains their advice was to stay put even after getting this information.

This is all irrelevant. The only thing that matters is what was going on when Zimmerman pulled the trigger. Was Zimmerman screaming for his life or was Martin. m

Yes and no. You keep repeating this, but I am not convinced that the jury is going to zone out everything else the way you are. Both sides are trying to set up certain conditions that will make things believable later on. For instance, if you are inclined to believe that Zimmerman basically followed instructions from the 911 operator, you will probably be more inclined to believe that Martin attacked him. On the other hand, if you are inclined to believe that Zimmerman ignored the operator and did his own thing, you will be more likely to be suspicious of any testimony given by Zimmerman regarding what actually happened once the confrontation started.

What i find interesting during the 911 call is that dispatch says to george are you following him and he says ya,its more than a minute later that he wouldnt tell dispatch his address because he doesnt know where this guy is(meaning trey could hear him if he says it) .That tells me zimm had to have been walking around between the buildings where the T is looking for trey. Now if trey looked back at zimm and saw him getting out of his truck he must have just dove behind something around the corner and just hid there. Seeing zimm walking around for a whole minute would be scary and or concerning to ANYONE in that situation. If zimm stopped when he was told to and was returning to his truck there would be no way trey would hear him say his address....IMO

This exact thought crossed my mind. If he were in his truck, logically his windows would be up (since it was raining). How is this kid going to hear him?

No one said he was in his truck.. He could have already been standing at the intersection when that took place.. "between 2 buildings" as the testimony from the 911 operator agreed to..

So what's the generally believed timeline of events by the Zimmerman defenders? I'm not going back, digging through 300+ pages of 5 digit drivel to find the consensus.

He calls 911, has the conversation as established today. What does he do during that conversation and where does he end up at the end of that conversation?

We don't know exactly, but it could have gone down like this:

Zimmerman gets out of his truck and walks/jogs/runs (who knows) to the edge of the building, trayvon has already ducted behind something, zimmerman says "he's gone", Zimmerman walks/jogs/runs (who knows) to the other side of the next building to either see if he sees trayvon running to the back entrance, or get an address, sometime in between gets off the phone.. Starts walking back through the area between the buildings, Trayvon who has been watching and now doesn't view Zimmerman as a physical threat (Zimmerman is shorter, and "soft") gets the courage to confront and pops out of hiding "hey, why you following me?".. Then confrontation gets physical from one side or the other.. and the rest we know..

So even in your scenarios, he's basically ignored the suggestion to leave it to the authorities and is out and about trying to find Martin? I can't say that Martin confronting Zimmerman is out of the question. It's certainly crossed my mind, but I keep coming back to "if he'd have let the authorities do their job, he wouldn't have been there to be confronted in the first place". Tonight, I can't help but think he brought this on himself. It will certainly be interesting to see how this is spun by both sides.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

So even in your scenarios, he's basically ignored the suggestion to leave it to the authorities and is out and about trying to find Martin? I can't say that Martin confronting Zimmerman is out of the question. It's certainly crossed my mind, but I keep coming back to "if he'd have let the authorities do their job, he wouldn't have been there to be confronted in the first place". Tonight, I can't help but think he brought this on himself. It will certainly be interesting to see how this is spun by both sides.

In the scenario in my last post, he wasn't ignoring the suggestion.. The suggestion was not to follow..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

KNOCK KNOCK.

Which no one on the jury found funny.

http://www.businessinsider.com/zimmerman-defense-attorney-tells-knock-knock-joke-2013-6

Zimmerman's Defense Attorney Tells Knock-Knock Joke During Opening Statements, Gets No Laughs From Jury

He (West) then went on to tell a bizarre knock-knock joke that he acknowledge could be received badly by the jury.

"Sometimes, you have to laugh to keep from crying," West said. "So let me, at considerable risk, let me say: I'd like to tell you a little joke."



West told the courtroom: "I think you're the perfect audience for it, as long as if you don't like it … you don't hold it against Mr. Zimmerman."



"Here's how it goes: knock, knock. Who's there? George Zimmerman. George Zimmerman who? All right, good, you're on the jury."

The joke didn't elicit any laughs. West asked: "Nothing? That's funny."

the laughs came after the "Nothing? That's funny."

Horrible delivery, but funny joke.

The situation was just terrible no matter how you look at it.. I don't know about "funny joke" , but was certainly a horrible delivery.. And terribly inappropriate..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

sounds like what i said...

In that scenario he did nothing illegal, and none of that warrants a guilty verdict or eliminates his ability to claim self defense..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

sounds like what i said...

Except in what you said, you left out the possibility that after walking/running/jogging to the next building/street, he could have simply been walking back to his truck when Trayvon comes out of hiding..

 

[timschochet]

http://news.yahoo.com/zimmerman-portrayed-vigilante-fla-shooting-204339598.html

Late Monday, the Seminole County NAACP held a town hall meeting at a church near a memorial site for Martin.

Martin family attorney Benjamin Crump, who as a potential witness in the case can't be present in the courtroom until he testifies, told the crowd that the outcome of the case would have far-reaching implications.

"It became a civil rights matter the night the police did not arrest the killer of an unarmed child," Crump said. "It's going to be a litmus test to show how far we have come."

 

[Mark Davis]

http://news.yahoo.com/zimmerman-portrayed-vigilante-fla-shooting-204339598.html

Late Monday, the Seminole County NAACP held a town hall meeting at a church near a memorial site for Martin.

Martin family attorney Benjamin Crump, who as a potential witness in the case can't be present in the courtroom until he testifies, told the crowd that the outcome of the case would have far-reaching implications.

"It became a civil rights matter the night the police did not arrest the killer of an unarmed child," Crump said. "It's going to be a litmus test to show how far we have come."

I wonder if the families that CNN interviewed who had family members die and no one was arrested or prosecuted under the Stand Your Ground law feel that way.

 

[timschochet]

http://news.yahoo.com/zimmerman-portrayed-vigilante-fla-shooting-204339598.html

Late Monday, the Seminole County NAACP held a town hall meeting at a church near a memorial site for Martin.

Martin family attorney Benjamin Crump, who as a potential witness in the case can't be present in the courtroom until he testifies, told the crowd that the outcome of the case would have far-reaching implications.

"It became a civil rights matter the night the police did not arrest the killer of an unarmed child," Crump said. "It's going to be a litmus test to show how far we have come."

I wonder if the families that CNN interviewed who had family members die and no one was arrested or prosecuted under the Stand Your Ground law feel that way.

Couldn't tell you. But then, I don't think Stand Your Ground applies because I don't believe that Martin was the aggressor, and I don't believe that Zimmerman acted in self-defense.

 

[pittstownkiller]

http://news.yahoo.com/zimmerman-portrayed-vigilante-fla-shooting-204339598.html

Late Monday, the Seminole County NAACP held a town hall meeting at a church near a memorial site for Martin.

Martin family attorney Benjamin Crump, who as a potential witness in the case can't be present in the courtroom until he testifies, told the crowd that the outcome of the case would have far-reaching implications.

"It became a civil rights matter the night the police did not arrest the killer of an unarmed child," Crump said. "It's going to be a litmus test to show how far we have come."

I wonder if the families that CNN interviewed who had family members die and no one was arrested or prosecuted under the Stand Your Ground law feel that way.

Couldn't tell you. But then, I don't think Stand Your Ground applies because I don't believe that Martin was the aggressor, and I don't believe that Zimmerman acted in self-defense.

Great; what other beliefs do you carry based on pure speculation?

 

[Otis]

I haven't been paying attention to this. I thought Zimmerman was screwed, but I for the first time today saw the video of him the day after this. That broken nose looked pretty damn busted up, as did the back of his head.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Great; what other beliefs do you carry based on pure speculation?

.. An easier question would be which beliefs he has aren't based on speculation..

 

[timschochet]

http://news.yahoo.com/zimmerman-portrayed-vigilante-fla-shooting-204339598.html

Late Monday, the Seminole County NAACP held a town hall meeting at a church near a memorial site for Martin.

Martin family attorney Benjamin Crump, who as a potential witness in the case can't be present in the courtroom until he testifies, told the crowd that the outcome of the case would have far-reaching implications.

"It became a civil rights matter the night the police did not arrest the killer of an unarmed child," Crump said. "It's going to be a litmus test to show how far we have come."

I wonder if the families that CNN interviewed who had family members die and no one was arrested or prosecuted under the Stand Your Ground law feel that way.

Couldn't tell you. But then, I don't think Stand Your Ground applies because I don't believe that Martin was the aggressor, and I don't believe that Zimmerman acted in self-defense.

Great; what other beliefs do you carry based on pure speculation?

Well, for one, I now believe Zimmerman is likely to be acquitted- unfortunately, IMO, since I think he's guilty.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Well, for one, I now believe Zimmerman is likely to be acquitted- unfortunately, IMO, since I think he's guilty.

what changed your mind?

 

[Mark Davis]

http://news.yahoo.com/zimmerman-portrayed-vigilante-fla-shooting-204339598.html

Late Monday, the Seminole County NAACP held a town hall meeting at a church near a memorial site for Martin.

Martin family attorney Benjamin Crump, who as a potential witness in the case can't be present in the courtroom until he testifies, told the crowd that the outcome of the case would have far-reaching implications.

"It became a civil rights matter the night the police did not arrest the killer of an unarmed child," Crump said. "It's going to be a litmus test to show how far we have come."

I wonder if the families that CNN interviewed who had family members die and no one was arrested or prosecuted under the Stand Your Ground law feel that way.

Couldn't tell you. But then, I don't think Stand Your Ground applies because I don't believe that Martin was the aggressor, and I don't believe that Zimmerman acted in self-defense.

Interesting. This case, or lack thereof, started like every case CNN highlighted in their coverage. The families in those cases weren't thrilled with the law and how it applied to their cases. However, that was the law. I admit I don't know all the facts that the prosecutors know or the defense knows, but one thing that does appear obvious based on the past cases is that there were plenty of examples of prosecutions not being brought where the shooters and victims were members of various racial backgrounds. I don't really see where this is a civil rights issue and the media is fanning those flames even though there is evidence to support the contrary.

 

[timschochet]

http://news.yahoo.com/zimmerman-portrayed-vigilante-fla-shooting-204339598.html

Late Monday, the Seminole County NAACP held a town hall meeting at a church near a memorial site for Martin.

Martin family attorney Benjamin Crump, who as a potential witness in the case can't be present in the courtroom until he testifies, told the crowd that the outcome of the case would have far-reaching implications.

"It became a civil rights matter the night the police did not arrest the killer of an unarmed child," Crump said. "It's going to be a litmus test to show how far we have come."

I wonder if the families that CNN interviewed who had family members die and no one was arrested or prosecuted under the Stand Your Ground law feel that way.

Couldn't tell you. But then, I don't think Stand Your Ground applies because I don't believe that Martin was the aggressor, and I don't believe that Zimmerman acted in self-defense.

Great; what other beliefs do you carry based on pure speculation?

Well, for one, I now believe Zimmerman is likely to be acquitted- unfortunately, IMO, since I think he's guilty.

what changed your mind?

Never really changed. I was hopeful, but if you go back through this thread, you'll see that ultimately this was my position all along. How do you eliminate reasonable doubt? In the end I don't know how to do so.

 

[The Commish]

So from the point of view of someone who doesn't have a dog in the fight today was about a very tasteless joke early on, but after witnesses started, it actually got interesting. I learned that Zimmerman was calm. He certainly sounded calm on the phone (not really sure what that means yet). He also had already made several assumptions about a kid he's never seen before. He decided, against the advice of the police, to do his own thing. Dispatch could see, based on the information they were given, through Zimmerman's filter, why he might follow Martin (not sure what this means yet). The fact remains their advice was to stay put even after getting this information.

This is all irrelevant. The only thing that matters is what was going on when Zimmerman pulled the trigger. Was Zimmerman screaming for his life or was Martin. m

Yes and no. You keep repeating this, but I am not convinced that the jury is going to zone out everything else the way you are. Both sides are trying to set up certain conditions that will make things believable later on. For instance, if you are inclined to believe that Zimmerman basically followed instructions from the 911 operator, you will probably be more inclined to believe that Martin attacked him. On the other hand, if you are inclined to believe that Zimmerman ignored the operator and did his own thing, you will be more likely to be suspicious of any testimony given by Zimmerman regarding what actually happened once the confrontation started.

What i find interesting during the 911 call is that dispatch says to george are you following him and he says ya,its more than a minute later that he wouldnt tell dispatch his address because he doesnt know where this guy is(meaning trey could hear him if he says it) .That tells me zimm had to have been walking around between the buildings where the T is looking for trey. Now if trey looked back at zimm and saw him getting out of his truck he must have just dove behind something around the corner and just hid there. Seeing zimm walking around for a whole minute would be scary and or concerning to ANYONE in that situation. If zimm stopped when he was told to and was returning to his truck there would be no way trey would hear him say his address....IMO

This exact thought crossed my mind. If he were in his truck, logically his windows would be up (since it was raining). How is this kid going to hear him?

No one said he was in his truck.. He could have already been standing at the intersection when that took place.. "between 2 buildings" as the testimony from the 911 operator agreed to..

So what's the generally believed timeline of events by the Zimmerman defenders? I'm not going back, digging through 300+ pages of 5 digit drivel to find the consensus.

He calls 911, has the conversation as established today. What does he do during that conversation and where does he end up at the end of that conversation?

We don't know exactly, but it could have gone down like this:

Zimmerman gets out of his truck and walks/jogs/runs (who knows) to the edge of the building, trayvon has already ducted behind something, zimmerman says "he's gone", Zimmerman walks/jogs/runs (who knows) to the other side of the next building to either see if he sees trayvon running to the back entrance, or get an address, sometime in between gets off the phone.. Starts walking back through the area between the buildings, Trayvon who has been watching and now doesn't view Zimmerman as a physical threat (Zimmerman is shorter, and "soft") gets the courage to confront and pops out of hiding "hey, why you following me?".. Then confrontation gets physical from one side or the other.. and the rest we know..

So even in your scenarios, he's basically ignored the suggestion to leave it to the authorities and is out and about trying to find Martin? I can't say that Martin confronting Zimmerman is out of the question. It's certainly crossed my mind, but I keep coming back to "if he'd have let the authorities do their job, he wouldn't have been there to be confronted in the first place". Tonight, I can't help but think he brought this on himself. It will certainly be interesting to see how this is spun by both sides.

In the scenario in my last post, he wasn't ignoring the suggestion.. The suggestion was not to follow..

and you see a significant difference between following him and actively searching for him to differentiate between the two?

 

[timschochet]

Mark Geragos appearing on CNN tonight. It's been years since I've seen him, and I forgot how much I despised this guy. He was a regular on TV years ago during the OJ trials, the Monica Lewinsky case, several other big cases. Never failed to piss me off. Unfortunately, he is also usually pretty accurate.

Tonight he said:

1. The Knock Knock joke was lame but makes no difference.

2. This is a defense jury.

3. There's almost no way the defense can lose.

4. Zimmerman won't testify- there's no percentage.

I don't mind hearing that I'm wrong about all this from you guys, but I HATE hearing it from Geragos.

Oh and jon? Spare me the I told you so's, huh? It's depressing enough...

 

[Mark Davis]

Mark Geragos appearing on CNN tonight. It's been years since I've seen him, and I forgot how much I despised this guy. He was a regular on TV years ago during the OJ trials, the Monica Lewinsky case, several other big cases. Never failed to piss me off. Unfortunately, he is also usually pretty accurate.

Tonight he said:

1. The Knock Knock joke was lame but makes no difference.

2. This is a defense jury.

3. There's almost no way the defense can lose.

4. Zimmerman won't testify- there's no percentage.

I don't mind hearing that I'm wrong about all this from you guys, but I HATE hearing it from Geragos.

Oh and jon? Spare me the I told you so's, huh? It's depressing enough...

Haha, I actually like Geragos. He's pompous and arrogant but if I was ever in a jam he'd make a great advocate. He's actually been a regular on some of the cable networks on the bigger trials lately like Jodi Arias as well.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

So even in your scenarios, he's basically ignored the suggestion to leave it to the authorities and is out and about trying to find Martin? I can't say that Martin confronting Zimmerman is out of the question. It's certainly crossed my mind, but I keep coming back to "if he'd have let the authorities do their job, he wouldn't have been there to be confronted in the first place". Tonight, I can't help but think he brought this on himself. It will certainly be interesting to see how this is spun by both sides.

In the scenario in my last post, he wasn't ignoring the suggestion.. The suggestion was not to follow..

and you see a significant difference between following him and actively searching for him to differentiate between the two?

I never said he was actively searching for him after receiving the suggestion from the 911 operator. I said, he could have either been getting an address, as he said he was, or seeing if Trayvon was running through the back gate. Walking to the next clearing where you can potentially see someone 100 yards away run through the back gate isn't "following".. So, yes, there is a huge difference.. Especially since in the context being used here, following=pursuing with the intent to engage..

 

[squistion]

Mark Geragos appearing on CNN tonight. It's been years since I've seen him, and I forgot how much I despised this guy. He was a regular on TV years ago during the OJ trials, the Monica Lewinsky case, several other big cases. Never failed to piss me off. Unfortunately, he is also usually pretty accurate.

Tonight he said:

1. The Knock Knock joke was lame but makes no difference.

2. This is a defense jury.

3. There's almost no way the defense can lose.

4. Zimmerman won't testify- there's no percentage.

I don't mind hearing that I'm wrong about all this from you guys, but I HATE hearing it from Geragos.

Oh and jon? Spare me the I told you so's, huh? It's depressing enough...

Since when is Marc Geragos the last word on any legal matter? He didn't get Scott Peterson off and was fired as an attorney for Michael Jackson. Yeah he is back on TV but what has he called right in recent years? You despise the guy but suddenly think he is prescient on this case with his track record? Cmon.

 

[Todd Andrews]

Can someone please explain why Zimmerman murdered that nice young kid again?

 

[timschochet]

Mark Geragos appearing on CNN tonight. It's been years since I've seen him, and I forgot how much I despised this guy. He was a regular on TV years ago during the OJ trials, the Monica Lewinsky case, several other big cases. Never failed to piss me off. Unfortunately, he is also usually pretty accurate.

Tonight he said:

1. The Knock Knock joke was lame but makes no difference.

2. This is a defense jury.

3. There's almost no way the defense can lose.

4. Zimmerman won't testify- there's no percentage.

I don't mind hearing that I'm wrong about all this from you guys, but I HATE hearing it from Geragos.

Oh and jon? Spare me the I told you so's, huh? It's depressing enough...

Since when is Marc Geragos the last word on any legal matter? He didn't get Scott Peterson off and was fired as an attorney for Michael Jackson. Yeah he is back on TV but what has he called right in recent years? You despise the guy but suddenly think he is prescient on this case with his track record? Cmon.

I really hope you're right. Man do I ever.

 

[StrikeS2k]

I am constantly amazed at how much Tim's world view and opinions are based on what other people say. It's pretty sad actually for someone who pretends to be as inteligent as Tim does.

 

[timschochet]

I am constantly amazed at how much Tim's world view and opinions are based on what other people say. It's pretty sad actually for someone who pretends to be as inteligent as Tim does.

First off I don't pretend to be intelligent, or stupid, or anything in between. I think I'm fairly smart, I suppose, but not nearly as smart as several of the people here, which is why I frequent this thread.

Second, very little of my world view is based on what other people say. My world view was formed when I was a teenager, modified as a young adult, and set into stone by the time I was 30, and hasn't changed much since. My opinion, however, is something else entirely- that changes all the time. Every time I receive new information, it changes my opinion, or at least I want it to. It depresses me that there are so many people out there, including you, who seem to reject any new information that might threaten one of your convictions.

Third, while you are constantly amazed about me, I am constantly amazed by you- particularly your obsession with my posts. You've stated time and again your utter disdain for anything I have to say. Why not just put me on ignore if I truly irritate you so much?

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

When the state makes such transparent statements to the dispatcher on the stand like "Did Zimmerman call Martin Black TWICE?!?", "Did you explicitly ask him the second time or did Zimmerman just blurt out HE'S BLACK?!!"

They lose all credibility with any rational human being.

Also, let's award the state points for their Shock and Awe opening statement, for every dramatic pause and for every stern expletive they bark, let's award them 10 points each and get this silly trial over with.

Every time the defense tries to talk about physical evidence or forensics, be sure to deduct 10 points since surely if they don't have Troy McClure delivering the speech it cannot be genuine, it must be made up.

 

[ducktales]

I am constantly amazed at how much Tim's world view and opinions are based on what other people say. It's pretty sad actually for someone who pretends to be as inteligent as Tim does.

First off I don't pretend to be intelligent, or stupid, or anything in between. I think I'm fairly smart, I suppose, but not nearly as smart as several of the people here, which is why I frequent this thread.

Second, very little of my world view is based on what other people say. My world view was formed when I was a teenager, modified as a young adult, and set into stone by the time I was 30, and hasn't changed much since. My opinion, however, is something else entirely- that changes all the time. Every time I receive new information, it changes my opinion, or at least I want it to. It depresses me that there are so many people out there, including you, who seem to reject any new information that might threaten one of your convictions.

Third, while you are constantly amazed about me, I am constantly amazed by you- particularly your obsession with my posts. You've stated time and again your utter disdain for anything I have to say. Why not just put me on ignore if I truly irritate you so much?

Dumb people don't realize they are dumb and often smart people will think they are dumber than they are

The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than average. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes.[1]

Actual competence may weaken self-confidence, as competent individuals may falsely assume that others have an equivalent understanding. David Dunning and Justin Kruger of Cornell University conclude, "the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others".[2]

 

[timschochet]

I am constantly amazed at how much Tim's world view and opinions are based on what other people say. It's pretty sad actually for someone who pretends to be as inteligent as Tim does.

First off I don't pretend to be intelligent, or stupid, or anything in between. I think I'm fairly smart, I suppose, but not nearly as smart as several of the people here, which is why I frequent this thread.

Second, very little of my world view is based on what other people say. My world view was formed when I was a teenager, modified as a young adult, and set into stone by the time I was 30, and hasn't changed much since. My opinion, however, is something else entirely- that changes all the time. Every time I receive new information, it changes my opinion, or at least I want it to. It depresses me that there are so many people out there, including you, who seem to reject any new information that might threaten one of your convictions.

Third, while you are constantly amazed about me, I am constantly amazed by you- particularly your obsession with my posts. You've stated time and again your utter disdain for anything I have to say. Why not just put me on ignore if I truly irritate you so much?

Dumb people don't realize they are dumb and often smart people will think they are dumber than they are

The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than average. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes.[1]

Actual competence may weaken self-confidence, as competent individuals may falsely assume that others have an equivalent understanding. David Dunning and Justin Kruger of Cornell University conclude, "the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others".[2]

Thanks.

 

[timschochet]

I am constantly amazed at how much Tim's world view and opinions are based on what other people say. It's pretty sad actually for someone who pretends to be as inteligent as Tim does.

First off I don't pretend to be intelligent, or stupid, or anything in between. I think I'm fairly smart, I suppose, but not nearly as smart as several of the people here, which is why I frequent this thread.

Second, very little of my world view is based on what other people say. My world view was formed when I was a teenager, modified as a young adult, and set into stone by the time I was 30, and hasn't changed much since. My opinion, however, is something else entirely- that changes all the time. Every time I receive new information, it changes my opinion, or at least I want it to. It depresses me that there are so many people out there, including you, who seem to reject any new information that might threaten one of your convictions.

Third, while you are constantly amazed about me, I am constantly amazed by you- particularly your obsession with my posts. You've stated time and again your utter disdain for anything I have to say. Why not just put me on ignore if I truly irritate you so much?

Dumb people don't realize they are dumb and often smart people will think they are dumber than they are

The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than average. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes.[1]

Actual competence may weaken self-confidence, as competent individuals may falsely assume that others have an equivalent understanding. David Dunning and Justin Kruger of Cornell University conclude, "the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others".[2]

Thanks.

Now that I've had a chance to read some of your posts in the Affirmative Action thread, I can regard this as a great compliment. Based on your views, I certainly HOPE you think I'm stupid. I would be horrified if you ever agreed with me about anything.

 

[ducktales]

I am constantly amazed at how much Tim's world view and opinions are based on what other people say. It's pretty sad actually for someone who pretends to be as inteligent as Tim does.

First off I don't pretend to be intelligent, or stupid, or anything in between. I think I'm fairly smart, I suppose, but not nearly as smart as several of the people here, which is why I frequent this thread.

Second, very little of my world view is based on what other people say. My world view was formed when I was a teenager, modified as a young adult, and set into stone by the time I was 30, and hasn't changed much since. My opinion, however, is something else entirely- that changes all the time. Every time I receive new information, it changes my opinion, or at least I want it to. It depresses me that there are so many people out there, including you, who seem to reject any new information that might threaten one of your convictions.

Third, while you are constantly amazed about me, I am constantly amazed by you- particularly your obsession with my posts. You've stated time and again your utter disdain for anything I have to say. Why not just put me on ignore if I truly irritate you so much?

Dumb people don't realize they are dumb and often smart people will think they are dumber than they are

The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than average. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes.[1]

Actual competence may weaken self-confidence, as competent individuals may falsely assume that others have an equivalent understanding. David Dunning and Justin Kruger of Cornell University conclude, "the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others".[2]

Thanks.

Now that I've had a chance to read some of your posts in the Affirmative Action thread, I can regard this as a great compliment. Based on your views, I certainly HOPE you think I'm stupid. I would be horrified if you ever agreed with me about anything.

you're doing a lot of "you're this you're that" with zero logic attached to it -- you are a slave to your emotions --

 

[ducktales]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BNkARKvCYAAU-Pj.jpg:large lmao

 

[avoiding injuries]

http://news.yahoo.com/zimmerman-portrayed-vigilante-fla-shooting-204339598.html

Late Monday, the Seminole County NAACP held a town hall meeting at a church near a memorial site for Martin.

Martin family attorney Benjamin Crump, who as a potential witness in the case can't be present in the courtroom until he testifies, told the crowd that the outcome of the case would have far-reaching implications.

"It became a civil rights matter the night the police did not arrest the killer of an unarmed child," Crump said. "It's going to be a litmus test to show how far we have come."

I wonder if the families that CNN interviewed who had family members die and no one was arrested or prosecuted under the Stand Your Ground law feel that way.

Couldn't tell you. But then, I don't think Stand Your Ground applies because I don't believe that Martin was the aggressor, and I don't believe that Zimmerman acted in self-defense.

Great; what other beliefs do you carry based on pure speculation?

Well, for one, I now believe Zimmerman is likely to be acquitted- unfortunately, IMO, since I think he's guilty.

what changed your mind?

Never really changed. I was hopeful, but if you go back through this thread, you'll see that ultimately this was my position all along. How do you eliminate reasonable doubt? In the end I don't know how to do so.

You try to play to the emotions of the jury, race bait and try to get them to speculate on what had happened. It's worked quite well on a lot of posters in this thread.

 

[jon_mx]

If he's the sort of guy who follows suspects when instructed not to by the police, the sort of guy who complains that these "punks" always get away, I am inclined much more to think of him as a wannabe viligante, and will consequently have a much more difficult time accepting his story that he was walking back to his truck when Martin jumped him from behind. Personally, I think that story's a load of crap. The fact that Zimmerman' disobeys police gives me insight into his personality.

But that's just me.

It was neither the police or an order. At best it was a suggestion by an operator. I understand you have developed a heavy biased against Zimmerman, but you should fairly represent the facts.

I disagree with your interpretation of the facts.

The definition of the statement on it's own disagrees with you.. He was not "told to do" anything.. It wasn't an order.. It wasn't a request, It was a statement..

You can argue this in several different ways, but in the end you keep making the same point over and over. I don't agree with you. I doubt the jury will either. What more is to be said? We'll have to wait and see who turns out to be right about this.

Admit you are wrong. But my guess is that will be in another 500 pages from now. There is really nothing to wait and see. It was not the police and it was not an order.

I'm never going to admit that I am wrong about my own interpretation of these facts, because that's a subjective opinion. But I also predict the jury will share my opinion, and if that turns out to be wrong, then of course I'll own up to it. However, we may never learn if this is the case, depending on the outcome of the trial. While I think it's an important issue, it's not by any means the decisive one, and interviews with the jury after the final result will probably focus on other points rather than this one.

This seem to be a huge point which took up about 20 pages of arguement, with the pro-Martin fan boys insisting it was an ORDER. Now the operator says flat out it was not an order and they are not allowed to give orders. It was never subjective, it was an obvious fact.

 

[jon_mx]

So from the point of view of someone who doesn't have a dog in the fight today was about a very tasteless joke early on, but after witnesses started, it actually got interesting. I learned that Zimmerman was calm. He certainly sounded calm on the phone (not really sure what that means yet). He also had already made several assumptions about a kid he's never seen before. He decided, against the advice of the police, to do his own thing. Dispatch could see, based on the information they were given, through Zimmerman's filter, why he might follow Martin (not sure what this means yet). The fact remains their advice was to stay put even after getting this information.

This is all irrelevant. The only thing that matters is what was going on when Zimmerman pulled the trigger. Was Zimmerman screaming for his life or was Martin. m

Yes and no. You keep repeating this, but I am not convinced that the jury is going to zone out everything else the way you are. Both sides are trying to set up certain conditions that will make things believable later on. For instance, if you are inclined to believe that Zimmerman basically followed instructions from the 911 operator, you will probably be more inclined to believe that Martin attacked him. On the other hand, if you are inclined to believe that Zimmerman ignored the operator and did his own thing, you will be more likely to be suspicious of any testimony given by Zimmerman regarding what actually happened once the confrontation started.

What i find interesting during the 911 call is that dispatch says to george are you following him and he says ya,its more than a minute later that he wouldnt tell dispatch his address because he doesnt know where this guy is(meaning trey could hear him if he says it) .That tells me zimm had to have been walking around between the buildings where the T is looking for trey. Now if trey looked back at zimm and saw him getting out of his truck he must have just dove behind something around the corner and just hid there. Seeing zimm walking around for a whole minute would be scary and or concerning to ANYONE in that situation. If zimm stopped when he was told to and was returning to his truck there would be no way trey would hear him say his address....IMO

This exact thought crossed my mind. If he were in his truck, logically his windows would be up (since it was raining). How is this kid going to hear him?

No one said he was in his truck.. He could have already been standing at the intersection when that took place.. "between 2 buildings" as the testimony from the 911 operator agreed to..

So what's the generally believed timeline of events by the Zimmerman defenders? I'm not going back, digging through 300+ pages of 5 digit drivel to find the consensus.

He calls 911, has the conversation as established today. What does he do during that conversation and where does he end up at the end of that conversation?

We don't know exactly, but it could have gone down like this:

Zimmerman gets out of his truck and walks/jogs/runs (who knows) to the edge of the building, trayvon has already ducted behind something, zimmerman says "he's gone", Zimmerman walks/jogs/runs (who knows) to the other side of the next building to either see if he sees trayvon running to the back entrance, or get an address, sometime in between gets off the phone.. Starts walking back through the area between the buildings, Trayvon who has been watching and now doesn't view Zimmerman as a physical threat (Zimmerman is shorter, and "soft") gets the courage to confront and pops out of hiding "hey, why you following me?".. Then confrontation gets physical from one side or the other.. and the rest we know..

So even in your scenarios, he's basically ignored the suggestion to leave it to the authorities and is out and about trying to find Martin? I can't say that Martin confronting Zimmerman is out of the question. It's certainly crossed my mind, but I keep coming back to "if he'd have let the authorities do their job, he wouldn't have been there to be confronted in the first place". Tonight, I can't help but think he brought this on himself. It will certainly be interesting to see how this is spun by both sides.

You claim to have no horse in this race, but you are constantly putting out the pro-Martin spin. You can play a lot of what if scenerios. They both did actions which lead to this tragedy. IMHO, Martin confronting Zimmerman is the most logical conclusion that can be drawn.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BNkARKvCYAAU-Pj.jpg:large lmao

ooooh...how kinky

 

[Spanky267]

http://news.yahoo.com/zimmerman-portrayed-vigilante-fla-shooting-204339598.html

Late Monday, the Seminole County NAACP held a town hall meeting at a church near a memorial site for Martin.

Martin family attorney Benjamin Crump, who as a potential witness in the case can't be present in the courtroom until he testifies, told the crowd that the outcome of the case would have far-reaching implications.

"It became a civil rights matter the night the police did not arrest the killer of an unarmed child," Crump said. "It's going to be a litmus test to show how far we have come."

I wonder if the families that CNN interviewed who had family members die and no one was arrested or prosecuted under the Stand Your Ground law feel that way.

Why would Crump be a potential witness in the trial. He doesnt have anything to lend to the proceedings as he wasnt present the night of the shooting and became the Martin's attorney only after the tragedy?

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Day 2....what jokes will we hear this time

 

[timschochet]

If he's the sort of guy who follows suspects when instructed not to by the police, the sort of guy who complains that these "punks" always get away, I am inclined much more to think of him as a wannabe viligante, and will consequently have a much more difficult time accepting his story that he was walking back to his truck when Martin jumped him from behind. Personally, I think that story's a load of crap. The fact that Zimmerman' disobeys police gives me insight into his personality.

But that's just me.

It was neither the police or an order. At best it was a suggestion by an operator. I understand you have developed a heavy biased against Zimmerman, but you should fairly represent the facts.

I disagree with your interpretation of the facts.

The definition of the statement on it's own disagrees with you.. He was not "told to do" anything.. It wasn't an order.. It wasn't a request, It was a statement..

You can argue this in several different ways, but in the end you keep making the same point over and over. I don't agree with you. I doubt the jury will either. What more is to be said? We'll have to wait and see who turns out to be right about this.

Admit you are wrong. But my guess is that will be in another 500 pages from now. There is really nothing to wait and see. It was not the police and it was not an order.

I'm never going to admit that I am wrong about my own interpretation of these facts, because that's a subjective opinion. But I also predict the jury will share my opinion, and if that turns out to be wrong, then of course I'll own up to it. However, we may never learn if this is the case, depending on the outcome of the trial. While I think it's an important issue, it's not by any means the decisive one, and interviews with the jury after the final result will probably focus on other points rather than this one.

This seem to be a huge point which took up about 20 pages of arguement, with the pro-Martin fan boys insisting it was an ORDER. Now the operator says flat out it was not an order and they are not allowed to give orders. It was never subjective, it was an obvious fact.

You didn't get the point beck then and you still don't. It's true that the defense in their cross examination would attempt to make the same distinction you did. But it fell flat with most commentators and I doubt it will impress the jury either. It's always been a very minor point- far more important is what did Zimmean do or not do once the comment was made.

 

[timschochet]

http://news.yahoo.com/zimmerman-portrayed-vigilante-fla-shooting-204339598.html

Late Monday, the Seminole County NAACP held a town hall meeting at a church near a memorial site for Martin.

Martin family attorney Benjamin Crump, who as a potential witness in the case can't be present in the courtroom until he testifies, told the crowd that the outcome of the case would have far-reaching implications.

"It became a civil rights matter the night the police did not arrest the killer of an unarmed child," Crump said. "It's going to be a litmus test to show how far we have come."

I wonder if the families that CNN interviewed who had family members die and no one was arrested or prosecuted under the Stand Your Ground law feel that way.

Why would Crump be a potential witness in the trial. He doesnt have anything to lend to the proceedings as he wasnt present the night of the shooting and became the Martin's attorney only after the tragedy?

Apparently he was the first one to interview the girlfriend, before the police did.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

If he's the sort of guy who follows suspects when instructed not to by the police, the sort of guy who complains that these "punks" always get away, I am inclined much more to think of him as a wannabe viligante, and will consequently have a much more difficult time accepting his story that he was walking back to his truck when Martin jumped him from behind. Personally, I think that story's a load of crap. The fact that Zimmerman' disobeys police gives me insight into his personality.

But that's just me.

It was neither the police or an order. At best it was a suggestion by an operator. I understand you have developed a heavy biased against Zimmerman, but you should fairly represent the facts.

I disagree with your interpretation of the facts.

The definition of the statement on it's own disagrees with you.. He was not "told to do" anything.. It wasn't an order.. It wasn't a request, It was a statement..

You can argue this in several different ways, but in the end you keep making the same point over and over. I don't agree with you. I doubt the jury will either. What more is to be said? We'll have to wait and see who turns out to be right about this.

Admit you are wrong. But my guess is that will be in another 500 pages from now. There is really nothing to wait and see. It was not the police and it was not an order.

I'm never going to admit that I am wrong about my own interpretation of these facts, because that's a subjective opinion. But I also predict the jury will share my opinion, and if that turns out to be wrong, then of course I'll own up to it. However, we may never learn if this is the case, depending on the outcome of the trial. While I think it's an important issue, it's not by any means the decisive one, and interviews with the jury after the final result will probably focus on other points rather than this one.

This seem to be a huge point which took up about 20 pages of arguement, with the pro-Martin fan boys insisting it was an ORDER. Now the operator says flat out it was not an order and they are not allowed to give orders. It was never subjective, it was an obvious fact.

You didn't get the point beck then and you still don't. It's true that the defense in their cross examination would attempt to make the same distinction you did. But it fell flat with most commentators and I doubt it will impress the jury either. It's always been a very minor point- far more important is what did Zimmean do or not do once the comment was made.

They cant give orders for fear of lawsuits if something goes wrong....but they are trained to give the proper advice in these situations.Are you suggesting the operator was wrong?

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

From the little I've read about yesterday I don't get the prosecution's argument that Zimmerman was a hate-fueled killing machine or somesuch. He initiated the event and in my opinion is responsible for it (he's going to have a much tougher go of things in the civil case), but I don't think he set out to kill someone. That's just a stupid argument IMO and seems like overreach.