Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (2 Viewers)

[3C's]

So I don't have it on, but from twitter, it sounds like Obama is fanning the flames here in a statement he is giving:

Obama: "Trayvon Martin could have been me, 35 years ago

Obama: There are very few African American men who have never had the experience of being followed in department stores. Including me.

Obama: "If a white male teen was involved in the same kind of scenario, both the outcome and the aftermath might have been different."

Obama: If Trayvon Martin was of age and had a gun, could he have stood his ground on that sidewalk?

--

Anyone watching this that can comment? What is the tone?

Six jurors just went through all the evidence and decided there was no racial bias. The FBI went through the evidence and determined there was no racial bias. But Obama, he knows better. There was racial bias.Way to fan the flames jackass.

This aside from his constant mention of "stand your ground" laws which had nothing to do with the defense anyway.

Just like they said on CNN. Obama was in a no win situation. If he says nothing he pisses off the Martin backers. If he says anything he pisses off the Zimmerman backers.

As for stand your ground, maybe you should read page 12 of the jury instructions. While there was no SYG hearing, it was still part of the trial. http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/Zimmerman_Final_Jury_Instructions.pdf

You need to read page 12 again. It doesn't mention SYG.

ok

 

[timschochet]

The best part about the speech, imo, is that he then acknowledged the fact that there is a violence problem among African-Americans.

This has been repeated by more than one person. I'm guessing it's annoying to black people that every time they want to discuss institutionalized racism, they also have to acknowledge that black on black violence is a problem. It's like whenever I want to discuss Palestinian terrorism, somebody always wants me to admit the Israelis do wrong things too. Once I admit that, does it change anything? Institutionalized racism is a real problem, and black on black violence is also a real problem, and both issues need to be addressed.

Stand Your Ground/Self-Defense law has nothing to do with institutional racism. I've even read that SYG helps more minorities than it hurts. But because it didn't in this case, the black community is up in arms about it. Perpetuating myopia/tunnel vision does not help the situation.

SYG is a separate issue and is not the source of the institutionalized racism concern- ( although I'd like to see your information that helps more minorities than it hurts.)

The source of the racism concern is, of course, the racial profiling that led to this confrontation.

The presumed racial profiling of a private citizen has nothing to do with institutional racism.

Agree to disagree with you. Strongly, as a matter of fact.

 

[Rayderr]

the title of this thread has bugged me since it started. calling a black teenager "boy" is pretty racist.

Well, it was pretty confusing from the beginning when the news media kept showing pictures of Trayvon at 10 years old.

 

[drummer]

Obama showed no respect for the process, did not show any empathy for the other side and injected race into it despite no evidence which showed it. It was not presidential at all.

I saw the same Presser and no way is this true.

"Hi rock. Gotta go to work now. Will be home by 6pm" - jon_mx

 

[Christo]

The best part about the speech, imo, is that he then acknowledged the fact that there is a violence problem among African-Americans.

This has been repeated by more than one person. I'm guessing it's annoying to black people that every time they want to discuss institutionalized racism, they also have to acknowledge that black on black violence is a problem. It's like whenever I want to discuss Palestinian terrorism, somebody always wants me to admit the Israelis do wrong things too. Once I admit that, does it change anything? Institutionalized racism is a real problem, and black on black violence is also a real problem, and both issues need to be addressed.

Stand Your Ground/Self-Defense law has nothing to do with institutional racism. I've even read that SYG helps more minorities than it hurts. But because it didn't in this case, the black community is up in arms about it. Perpetuating myopia/tunnel vision does not help the situation.

SYG is a separate issue and is not the source of the institutionalized racism concern- ( although I'd like to see your information that helps more minorities than it hurts.)

The source of the racism concern is, of course, the racial profiling that led to this confrontation.

The presumed racial profiling of a private citizen has nothing to do with institutional racism.

Agree to disagree with you. Strongly, as a matter of fact.

 

[Christo]

the title of this thread has bugged me since it started. calling a black teenager "boy" is pretty racist.

Well, it was pretty confusing from the beginning when the news media kept showing pictures of Trayvon at 10 years old.

Part of the main problem with this situation.

 

[Politician Spock]

So I don't have it on, but from twitter, it sounds like Obama is fanning the flames here in a statement he is giving:

Obama: "Trayvon Martin could have been me, 35 years ago

Obama: There are very few African American men who have never had the experience of being followed in department stores. Including me.

Obama: "If a white male teen was involved in the same kind of scenario, both the outcome and the aftermath might have been different."

Obama: If Trayvon Martin was of age and had a gun, could he have stood his ground on that sidewalk?

--

Anyone watching this that can comment? What is the tone?

Six jurors just went through all the evidence and decided there was no racial bias. The FBI went through the evidence and determined there was no racial bias. But Obama, he knows better. There was racial bias.Way to fan the flames jackass.

This aside from his constant mention of "stand your ground" laws which had nothing to do with the defense anyway.

Just like they said on CNN. Obama was in a no win situation. If he says nothing he pisses off the Martin backers. If he says anything he pisses off the Zimmerman backers.As for stand your ground, maybe you should read page 12 of the jury instructions. While there was no SYG hearing, it was still part of the trial. http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/Zimmerman_Final_Jury_Instructions.pdf

Most of the "Zimmerman backers" hate Obama's guts anyhow; I don't think he worries too much about pissing them off.

He's their president too.

Not that they're willing to acknowledge it.

Someone with a podium and cameras had the opportunity to. He chose not to.

 

[3C's]

In other words, I'm not going to bother with Christo BS but here is what it says. "If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."

 

[drummer]

The best part about the speech, imo, is that he then acknowledged the fact that there is a violence problem among African-Americans.

This has been repeated by more than one person. I'm guessing it's annoying to black people that every time they want to discuss institutionalized racism, they also have to acknowledge that black on black violence is a problem. It's like whenever I want to discuss Palestinian terrorism, somebody always wants me to admit the Israelis do wrong things too. Once I admit that, does it change anything? Institutionalized racism is a real problem, and black on black violence is also a real problem, and both issues need to be addressed.

Stand Your Ground/Self-Defense law has nothing to do with institutional racism. I've even read that SYG helps more minorities than it hurts. But because it didn't in this case, the black community is up in arms about it. Perpetuating myopia/tunnel vision does not help the situation.

SYG is a separate issue and is not the source of the institutionalized racism concern- ( although I'd like to see your information that helps more minorities than it hurts.)

The source of the racism concern is, of course, the racial profiling that led to this confrontation.

The presumed racial profiling of a private citizen has nothing to do with institutional racism.

Agree to disagree with you. Strongly, as a matter of fact.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Throughout his public life, Obama has spoken about race very rarely. There was a major speech after he was forced to disassociate himself with his former Reverend. There was the speech made after the Henry Gates affair. And now there is this speech.

Each of these has been among his best speeches, IMO. He gets to the heart of the matter.

Like Obama's other speeches on race, this one has some breathtaking intellectual dishonesty:

And then, finally, I think it's going to be important for all of us to do some soul-searching. There has been talk about should we convene a conversation on race. I haven't seen that be particularly productive when politicians try to organize conversations. They end up being stilted and politicized, and folks are locked into the positions they already have. On the other hand, in families and churches and workplaces, there's the possibility that people are a little bit more honest, and at least you ask yourself your own questions about, am I wringing as much bias out of myself as I can? Am I judging people as much as I can, based on not the color of their skin, but the content of their character? That would, I think, be an appropriate exercise in the wake of this tragedy.

You don't get to include this little diddy at the tail of a speech that was 85% race-baiting. If you really want people to look at issues in a more color-blind fashion, maybe you should take the beam out of your own eye before worrying about the speck in mine.

 

[MaxThreshold]

Throughout his public life, Obama has spoken about race very rarely. There was a major speech after he was forced to disassociate himself with his former Reverend. There was the speech made after the Henry Gates affair. And now there is this speech.

Each of these has been among his best speeches, IMO. He gets to the heart of the matter.

Like Obama's other speeches on race, this one has some breathtaking intellectual dishonesty:

And then, finally, I think it's going to be important for all of us to do some soul-searching. There has been talk about should we convene a conversation on race. I haven't seen that be particularly productive when politicians try to organize conversations. They end up being stilted and politicized, and folks are locked into the positions they already have. On the other hand, in families and churches and workplaces, there's the possibility that people are a little bit more honest, and at least you ask yourself your own questions about, am I wringing as much bias out of myself as I can? Am I judging people as much as I can, based on not the color of their skin, but the content of their character? That would, I think, be an appropriate exercise in the wake of this tragedy.

You don't get to include this little diddy at the tail of a speech that was 85% race-baiting. If you really want people to look at issues in a more color-blind fashion, maybe you should take the beam out of your own eye before worrying about the speck in mine.

Amen, Ivan. Amen.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

the title of this thread has bugged me since it started. calling a black teenager "boy" is pretty racist.

Another interesting sideline. How many times in Obama's speech to he refer to black youth as "boys?" I have no problem with this, but somebody needs to bookmark this one for the next time a white guy gets flayed for the same verbal misstep.

 

[drummer]

Way to go Obama! Gonna squeeze 500 more pages outta this beyotch.

 

[drummer]

20 user(s) are reading this topic

10 members, 7 guests, 2 anonymous users

• me, jamny, Jim11, Tecumseh, Joe McGee, Google (1), Maurile Tremblay, timschochet, -fish-, shader, jon_mx, greenroom

 

[Joe McGee]

The cigar smoking youtube guy said it best - the life of a young black male has no value in the black community unless he is killed by someone non-black. No one seems to be too upset about the 11,000 young Black men that were killed by other Black men.

He also said that the best way for the Black community to honor Trayvon Martin would be to clean up their own community and try to prevent further violence.

The Pew Research Center did a study and concluded that the 2 groups that oppress Black men the most are older Black men who abandon their children and younger Black men who commit so much violence against each other. I know that isn't popular to hear but shouldn't the Black community start with its biggest problems first?

 

[jamny]

and the worst part is that this might be the impetus to bring Tim back into this thread.

He's baaaaaack

 

[drummer]

and the worst part is that this might be the impetus to bring Tim back into this thread.

He's baaaaaack

tim's just messin' with the haterz. He made a list of them ya know.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Obama comparing himself to Martin is about the most absurd thing in the world, totally self serving invented.

Obama at Martin's age:

- In multicultural Hawaii

- Son of an international aid worker, grew up overseas, no parents at home.

- Never knew his father, who did not stick around for a cup of coffee.

- Raised by white grandmother who was a bank vice president and white grandfather who owned a furniture store.

- Upper class to middle upper class upbringing.

- White & Hawaiin friends

- Half-white American by way of Kansas and WA State (mother), half-Kenyan (father), zero family history with African-American experience of segregation and slavery

- Attended elite upper class expensive prep school

- slacker, smoked the weed, but nonetheless ticketed for expensive exclusive college and grad school future, would one day work in international finance and high end law firm in Chicago

- Not a whiff of trouble in his youth.

Martin compares with these, how?????

 

[-fish-]

and the worst part is that this might be the impetus to bring Tim back into this thread.

He's baaaaaack

tim's just messin' with the haterz. He made a list of them ya know.

here it is

 

[drummer]

and the worst part is that this might be the impetus to bring Tim back into this thread.

He's baaaaaack

tim's just messin' with the haterz. He made a list of them ya know.

here it is

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Obama comparing himself to Martin is about the most absurd thing in the world, totally self serving invented.

Obama at Martin's age:

- In multicultural Hawaii

- Son of an aid worker, grew up overseas, no parents at home.

- Never knew his father, who did not stick around for a cup of coffee.

- Raised by white grandmother who was a bank vice president and white grandfather who owned a furniture store.

- Upper class to middle upper class upbringing.

- White & Hawaiin friends

- Half-white, half-Kenyan, zero family history with African-American experience of segregation and slavery

- Attended elite upper class expensive prep school

- slacker, smoked the weed, but nonetheless ticketed for expensive exclusive college and grad school future, would one day work in international finance and high end law firm in Chicago

- Not a whiff of trouble in his youth.

Martin comares with these, how?????

They were both followed around when shopping in department stores; they both heard the locks click on car doors when they walked across the street; they both got on elevators and saw women clutching their purses and holding their breath.

 

[The Commish]

That's pretty common and is consistent with the proportionately element of self defense.

Can you expand on this. From what I've been reading, it doesn't seem to be true. Had read of cases even in your state of AZ where self defense could not be used because the person claiming such was the initial aggressor in the whole thing. Same applied in MA and in my state of SC, there's not been a single case where the defendant could claim self defense when they were the initial aggressor triggering the events. From what I gather there are pretrial hearings or some such that determine what they can/can't claim??

Yep, there would be. In AZ the defense must notify the court and the state in a certain timeframe if they want to claim self defense.

I'm wrapped up at the moment, but I'll get to the self defense issues later if I can. It's nuanced.

Thanks....appreciate the effort. I think I understand it from my readings but a validation would be good.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Obama comparing himself to Martin is about the most absurd thing in the world, totally self serving invented.

Obama at Martin's age:

- In multicultural Hawaii

- Son of an aid worker, grew up overseas, no parents at home.

- Never knew his father, who did not stick around for a cup of coffee.

- Raised by white grandmother who was a bank vice president and white grandfather who owned a furniture store.

- Upper class to middle upper class upbringing.

- White & Hawaiin friends

- Half-white, half-Kenyan, zero family history with African-American experience of segregation and slavery

- Attended elite upper class expensive prep school

- slacker, smoked the weed, but nonetheless ticketed for expensive exclusive college and grad school future, would one day work in international finance and high end law firm in Chicago

- Not a whiff of trouble in his youth.

Martin comares with these, how?????

They were both followed around when shopping in department stores; they both heard the locks click on car doors when they walked across the street; they both got on elevators and saw women clutching their purses and holding their breath.

My friend, really?

When?

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

The source of the racism concern is, of course, the racial profiling that led to this confrontation.

What are you referring to here?

 

[squistion]

Obama comparing himself to Martin is about the most absurd thing in the world, totally self serving invented.

Obama at Martin's age:

- In multicultural Hawaii

- Son of an international aid worker, grew up overseas, no parents at home.

- Never knew his father, who did not stick around for a cup of coffee.

- Raised by white grandmother who was a bank vice president and white grandfather who owned a furniture store.

- Upper class to middle upper class upbringing.

- White & Hawaiin friends

- Half-white American by way of Kansas and WA State (mother), half-Kenyan (father), zero family history with African-American experience of segregation and slavery

- Attended elite upper class expensive prep school

- slacker, smoked the weed, but nonetheless ticketed for expensive exclusive college and grad school future, would one day work in international finance and high end law firm in Chicago

- Not a whiff of trouble in his youth.

Martin compares with these, how?????

Obama was pointing out he was profiled for being black, as Martin was profiled by Zimmerman, he didn't claim they had identical backgrounds.

 

[The Commish]

MT...your article makes good points and quite frankly I'm tired of all the around this insisting that it's left vs right or black vs white. I'd rather look at what a verdict like this means in terms of society and what we teach our children. Problem is, I'm not sure what should be taught from this. "Don't beat up people who are carrying a gun" is childish and pointless. The best I can come up with is it's taught us how screwed up FL law is and I'm afraid that's not going to be very useful to my children.

Why does it have to be with a gun?

I think you could teach your kids two things. 1. Don't beat people up because fighting is stupid. 2.Leave it up to the police.

I'll grant you #2, but #1 is pretty disingenuous given how the whole thing started. If I put myself in a kid's shoes where they are being followed by a stranger, what's the lesson? Run? Go hide? Is that a good lesson to be teaching kids when they haven't been doing anything wrong? I'm not convinced the "just run and hide even though you've done nothing wrong" is the best approach. It's easy to ignore everything that happened up until the fight for legal purposes. It's not practical if trying to teach/learn from the entire situation.

How about just walk the extra bit and get into the house?

Why would you teach your kids to confront strangers that are following them???? Doesnt that contradict every way you have been defending Martin? How do they know for sure they are being followed? Wouldnt that be acting paranoid and being suspicious of people?

I've not been defending Martin. I've said multiple times he made a mistake by not going home just prior to the incident. But as I've been thinking, I can't shake the "why should have to run or flee if he weren't doing anything wrong?" type of thoughts. Perhaps for kids the answer is simple as others have suggested. Tell them to flee and error on the side of caution even if it's someone else causing the problem. There's something unjust about that in my mind though. If it's two kids and one is following the other, I wouldn't have a problem with either of my kids to try and resolve it. If it's two adults, I'd expect them to try and resolve it. This being scared of anyone/anything you don't know doesn't seem to be a way to go through life.

Even if you support your kids confronting a stranger they think is following them it still doesnt explain why you arent willing to teach them that getting into fights is pretty dumb.

What on earth are you talking about? We aren't talking about getting into fights here. I'd like to see the piece I typed that allowed you to jump to the conclusion.

 

[MaxThreshold]

Obama comparing himself to Martin is about the most absurd thing in the world, totally self serving invented.

Obama at Martin's age:

- In multicultural Hawaii

- Son of an international aid worker, grew up overseas, no parents at home.

- Never knew his father, who did not stick around for a cup of coffee.

- Raised by white grandmother who was a bank vice president and white grandfather who owned a furniture store.

- Upper class to middle upper class upbringing.

- White & Hawaiin friends

- Half-white American by way of Kansas and WA State (mother), half-Kenyan (father), zero family history with African-American experience of segregation and slavery

- Attended elite upper class expensive prep school

- slacker, smoked the weed, but nonetheless ticketed for expensive exclusive college and grad school future, would one day work in international finance and high end law firm in Chicago

- Not a whiff of trouble in his youth.

Martin compares with these, how?????

Obama was pointing out he was profiled for being black, as Martin was profiled by Zimmerman, he didn't claim they had identical backgrounds.

How much racial profiling did they do in Kenya while Obama was growing up?

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Obama comparing himself to Martin is about the most absurd thing in the world, totally self serving invented.

Obama at Martin's age:

- In multicultural Hawaii

- Son of an aid worker, grew up overseas, no parents at home.

- Never knew his father, who did not stick around for a cup of coffee.

- Raised by white grandmother who was a bank vice president and white grandfather who owned a furniture store.

- Upper class to middle upper class upbringing.

- White & Hawaiin friends

- Half-white, half-Kenyan, zero family history with African-American experience of segregation and slavery

- Attended elite upper class expensive prep school

- slacker, smoked the weed, but nonetheless ticketed for expensive exclusive college and grad school future, would one day work in international finance and high end law firm in Chicago

- Not a whiff of trouble in his youth.

Martin comares with these, how?????

They were both followed around when shopping in department stores; they both heard the locks click on car doors when they walked across the street; they both got on elevators and saw women clutching their purses and holding their breath.

My friend, really?

When?

I'm not sure what you're asking. Do you doubt that those things have happened to Martin?

All of them happened to Obama before he became a senator. (I took them right from his speech.)

 

[GroveDiesel]

The best part about the speech, imo, is that he then acknowledged the fact that there is a violence problem among African-Americans.

This has been repeated by more than one person. I'm guessing it's annoying to black people that every time they want to discuss institutionalized racism, they also have to acknowledge that black on black violence is a problem. It's like whenever I want to discuss Palestinian terrorism, somebody always wants me to admit the Israelis do wrong things too. Once I admit that, does it change anything? Institutionalized racism is a real problem, and black on black violence is also a real problem, and both issues need to be addressed.

Stand Your Ground/Self-Defense law has nothing to do with institutional racism. I've even read that SYG helps more minorities than it hurts. But because it didn't in this case, the black community is up in arms about it. Perpetuating myopia/tunnel vision does not help the situation.

SYG is a separate issue and is not the source of the institutionalized racism concern- ( although I'd like to see your information that helps more minorities than it hurts.)The source of the racism concern is, of course, the racial profiling that led to this confrontation.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/16/blacks-benefit-from-florida-stand-your-ground-law-at-disproportionate-rate/

 

[drummer]

Obama comparing himself to Martin is about the most absurd thing in the world, totally self serving invented.

Obama at Martin's age:

- In multicultural Hawaii

- Son of an international aid worker, grew up overseas, no parents at home.

- Never knew his father, who did not stick around for a cup of coffee.

- Raised by white grandmother who was a bank vice president and white grandfather who owned a furniture store.

- Upper class to middle upper class upbringing.

- White & Hawaiin friends

- Half-white American by way of Kansas and WA State (mother), half-Kenyan (father), zero family history with African-American experience of segregation and slavery

- Attended elite upper class expensive prep school

- slacker, smoked the weed, but nonetheless ticketed for expensive exclusive college and grad school future, would one day work in international finance and high end law firm in Chicago

- Not a whiff of trouble in his youth.

Martin compares with these, how?????

Obama was pointing out he was profiled for being black, as Martin was profiled by Zimmerman, he didn't claim they had identical backgrounds.

OH GOODY. I got to use the word Kenya! Just wait until I show my conservative friendz!

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Obama comparing himself to Martin is about the most absurd thing in the world, totally self serving invented.

Obama at Martin's age:

- In multicultural Hawaii

- Son of an international aid worker, grew up overseas, no parents at home.

- Never knew his father, who did not stick around for a cup of coffee.

- Raised by white grandmother who was a bank vice president and white grandfather who owned a furniture store.

- Upper class to middle upper class upbringing.

- White & Hawaiin friends

- Half-white American by way of Kansas and WA State (mother), half-Kenyan (father), zero family history with African-American experience of segregation and slavery

- Attended elite upper class expensive prep school

- slacker, smoked the weed, but nonetheless ticketed for expensive exclusive college and grad school future, would one day work in international finance and high end law firm in Chicago

- Not a whiff of trouble in his youth.

Martin compares with these, how?????

Obama was pointing out he was profiled for being black, as Martin was profiled by Zimmerman, he didn't claim they had identical backgrounds.

I have to admit in this digital age, I must miss a lot.

Not to doubt that Obama could have been profiled, but did Obama say he was profiled? When? Has he ever spoken of this before, say in his several books or speeches?

Somehow between going to Punahou, Occidental, Columbia and Harvard and then hitting Wall Street, high end defense and plaintiff firms in Chicago, and then becoming a State and US Senator, I'm really curious as to when this might have happened.... but hey I'm sure it's possible.

And if it did happen I'm guessing his experience and reaction was waaayyyyy different to that of Martin.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Obama comparing himself to Martin is about the most absurd thing in the world, totally self serving invented.

Obama at Martin's age:

- In multicultural Hawaii

- Son of an aid worker, grew up overseas, no parents at home.

- Never knew his father, who did not stick around for a cup of coffee.

- Raised by white grandmother who was a bank vice president and white grandfather who owned a furniture store.

- Upper class to middle upper class upbringing.

- White & Hawaiin friends

- Half-white, half-Kenyan, zero family history with African-American experience of segregation and slavery

- Attended elite upper class expensive prep school

- slacker, smoked the weed, but nonetheless ticketed for expensive exclusive college and grad school future, would one day work in international finance and high end law firm in Chicago

- Not a whiff of trouble in his youth.

Martin comares with these, how?????

They were both followed around when shopping in department stores; they both heard the locks click on car doors when they walked across the street; they both got on elevators and saw women clutching their purses and holding their breath.

My friend, really?

When?

I'm not sure what you're asking. Do you doubt that those things have happened to Martin?

All of them happened to Obama before he became a Senator. (I took them right from his speech.)

I will go back and check the speech. Thanks.

 

[Mr Two Cents]

Why does the White Black fan the flames of racism when a White Hispanic is involved. What a pathetic example of leadership. So he could be a thug that cold cocked the wrong guy. WTF is the idiot thinking. If White Blacks took the responsibility of their own actions and the Black Blacks WTH was that moron talking about.

Black Blacks and White Blacks and Hispanic Blacks and Asian Blacks and whoever to hell you want to throw into the mix should quit blaming crap that has nothing to do except provide an excuse for their behavior is a large part of the problem but is not something we can talk.

Look at what is going on in the country today, do you think this is going to narrow the divide between the races, it is only creating more hatred. LOOK at the news then wonder why some elements of America are considered "animals" because they act like animals"

This country is so ####ed up and IS NOT getting better. If America continues to make excuses for a large element of society there will be a war in America and everyone will wonder why.

 

[MaxThreshold]

Obama comparing himself to Martin is about the most absurd thing in the world, totally self serving invented.

Obama at Martin's age:

- In multicultural Hawaii

- Son of an international aid worker, grew up overseas, no parents at home.

- Never knew his father, who did not stick around for a cup of coffee.

- Raised by white grandmother who was a bank vice president and white grandfather who owned a furniture store.

- Upper class to middle upper class upbringing.

- White & Hawaiin friends

- Half-white American by way of Kansas and WA State (mother), half-Kenyan (father), zero family history with African-American experience of segregation and slavery

- Attended elite upper class expensive prep school

- slacker, smoked the weed, but nonetheless ticketed for expensive exclusive college and grad school future, would one day work in international finance and high end law firm in Chicago

- Not a whiff of trouble in his youth.

Martin compares with these, how?????

Obama was pointing out he was profiled for being black, as Martin was profiled by Zimmerman, he didn't claim they had identical backgrounds.

OH GOODY. I got to use the word Kenya! Just wait until I show my conservative friendz!

I'm mentally challenged. Please help me.

Sorry, drummer, there is no help for you. But I find it very creepy that you stalk me all over these boards. Creeper.

 

[drummer]

Why does the White Black fan the flames of racism when a White Hispanic is involved. What a pathetic example of leadership. So he could be a thug that cold cocked the wrong guy. WTF is the idiot thinking. If White Blacks took the responsibility of their own actions and the Black Blacks WTH was that moron talking about.

Black Blacks and White Blacks and Hispanic Blacks and Asian Blacks and whoever to hell you want to throw into the mix should quit blaming crap that has nothing to do except provide an excuse for their behavior is a large part of the problem but is not something we can talk.

Look at what is going on in the country today, do you think this is going to narrow the divide between the races, it is only creating more hatred. LOOK at the news then wonder why some elements of America are considered "animals" because they act like animals"

This country is so ####ed up and IS NOT getting better. If America continues to make excuses for a large element of society there will be a war in America and everyone will wonder why.

MR TWO CENTS. HUH, GOOD GOD! WHAT IS HE GOOD FOR? ABSOLUTELY NUTHIN'! SAY IT AGAIN!

 

[drummer]

Obama comparing himself to Martin is about the most absurd thing in the world, totally self serving invented.

Obama at Martin's age:

- In multicultural Hawaii

- Son of an international aid worker, grew up overseas, no parents at home.

- Never knew his father, who did not stick around for a cup of coffee.

- Raised by white grandmother who was a bank vice president and white grandfather who owned a furniture store.

- Upper class to middle upper class upbringing.

- White & Hawaiin friends

- Half-white American by way of Kansas and WA State (mother), half-Kenyan (father), zero family history with African-American experience of segregation and slavery

- Attended elite upper class expensive prep school

- slacker, smoked the weed, but nonetheless ticketed for expensive exclusive college and grad school future, would one day work in international finance and high end law firm in Chicago

- Not a whiff of trouble in his youth.

Martin compares with these, how?????

Obama was pointing out he was profiled for being black, as Martin was profiled by Zimmerman, he didn't claim they had identical backgrounds.

OH GOODY. I got to use the word Kenya! Just wait until I show my conservative friendz!

I'm mentally challenged. Please help me.

ZOMG! JUST WAIT UNTIL I SHOW MY CONSERVTIVE FRIENDZ THIS!

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Obama comparing himself to Martin is about the most absurd thing in the world, totally self serving invented.

Obama at Martin's age:

- In multicultural Hawaii

- Son of an aid worker, grew up overseas, no parents at home.

- Never knew his father, who did not stick around for a cup of coffee.

- Raised by white grandmother who was a bank vice president and white grandfather who owned a furniture store.

- Upper class to middle upper class upbringing.

- White & Hawaiin friends

- Half-white, half-Kenyan, zero family history with African-American experience of segregation and slavery

- Attended elite upper class expensive prep school

- slacker, smoked the weed, but nonetheless ticketed for expensive exclusive college and grad school future, would one day work in international finance and high end law firm in Chicago

- Not a whiff of trouble in his youth.

Martin comares with these, how?????

They were both followed around when shopping in department stores; they both heard the locks click on car doors when they walked across the street; they both got on elevators and saw women clutching their purses and holding their breath.

My friend, really?

When?

I'm not sure what you're asking. Do you doubt that those things have happened to Martin?

All of them happened to Obama before he became a Senator. (I took them right from his speech.)

I will go back and check the speech. Thanks.

I'm sorry (I mean that), I just read it:

There are very few African American men in this country who haven't had the experience of being followed when they were shopping in a department store. That includes me. There are very few African American men who haven't had the experience of walking across the street and hearing the locks click on the doors of cars. That happens to me -- at least before I was a senator.

He did not actually say women had clutched their bag in his presence.

As for the locking of doors thing - he had that story in his book about his grandmother. I read that and to be honest, it didn't really ring true. That was his own treasured grandmother he spoke of.

And I'm sorry, truly, because I respect the commentary and the truth about the black experience in America, but Pres. Obama has zero - nothing - in common with either that experience or that poor child. It's really terrible, to put it politely, that he would feel the need to drag himself into that tragedy using pathos in this way. On teh other hand, it's happening on both sides.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Has anyone honestly NOT had store clerks follow them around a store before? Happened to me quite a bit when I was a teenager and I was the nerdiest looking white middle class kid you've ever seen. Heck, it happens now. I'll walk into a store, be the only one in there, wander around and the worker just "happens" to be near me the entire time I'm there.

If I walked into the Coach store right now in my khaki shorts and t-shirt, I can guarantee you I'm getting the evil eye and close observation from the clerk.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Obama comparing himself to Martin is about the most absurd thing in the world, totally self serving invented.

Obama at Martin's age:

- In multicultural Hawaii

- Son of an international aid worker, grew up overseas, no parents at home.

- Never knew his father, who did not stick around for a cup of coffee.

- Raised by white grandmother who was a bank vice president and white grandfather who owned a furniture store.

- Upper class to middle upper class upbringing.

- White & Hawaiin friends

- Half-white American by way of Kansas and WA State (mother), half-Kenyan (father), zero family history with African-American experience of segregation and slavery

- Attended elite upper class expensive prep school

- slacker, smoked the weed, but nonetheless ticketed for expensive exclusive college and grad school future, would one day work in international finance and high end law firm in Chicago

- Not a whiff of trouble in his youth.

Martin compares with these, how?????

Obama was pointing out he was profiled for being black, as Martin was profiled by Zimmerman, he didn't claim they had identical backgrounds.

How much racial profiling did they do in Kenya while Obama was growing up?

Pfft, serious inquiries only.

My point is he had no relatives of any kind (and certainly none he knew growing up if you include the African colonial experience) affected by segregation, slavery, or oppression in any way.

 

[MaxThreshold]

Obama comparing himself to Martin is about the most absurd thing in the world, totally self serving invented.

Obama at Martin's age:

- In multicultural Hawaii

- Son of an international aid worker, grew up overseas, no parents at home.

- Never knew his father, who did not stick around for a cup of coffee.

- Raised by white grandmother who was a bank vice president and white grandfather who owned a furniture store.

- Upper class to middle upper class upbringing.

- White & Hawaiin friends

- Half-white American by way of Kansas and WA State (mother), half-Kenyan (father), zero family history with African-American experience of segregation and slavery

- Attended elite upper class expensive prep school

- slacker, smoked the weed, but nonetheless ticketed for expensive exclusive college and grad school future, would one day work in international finance and high end law firm in Chicago

- Not a whiff of trouble in his youth.

Martin compares with these, how?????

Obama was pointing out he was profiled for being black, as Martin was profiled by Zimmerman, he didn't claim they had identical backgrounds.

How much racial profiling did they do in Kenya while Obama was growing up?

My point is he had no relatives of any kind (and certainly none he knew growing up if you include the African colonial experience) affected by segregation, slavery, or oppression in any way.

And i agree with you 100%.

 

[jamny]

Not to say I understand the black experience but I was a long haired burnout at Trayvon's age and I was targetted quite a bit by law enforcement. And rightfully so.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Obama comparing himself to Martin is about the most absurd thing in the world, totally self serving invented.

Obama at Martin's age:

- In multicultural Hawaii

- Son of an international aid worker, grew up overseas, no parents at home.

- Never knew his father, who did not stick around for a cup of coffee.

- Raised by white grandmother who was a bank vice president and white grandfather who owned a furniture store.

- Upper class to middle upper class upbringing.

- White & Hawaiin friends

- Half-white American by way of Kansas and WA State (mother), half-Kenyan (father), zero family history with African-American experience of segregation and slavery

- Attended elite upper class expensive prep school

- slacker, smoked the weed, but nonetheless ticketed for expensive exclusive college and grad school future, would one day work in international finance and high end law firm in Chicago

- Not a whiff of trouble in his youth.

Martin compares with these, how?????

Obama was pointing out he was profiled for being black, as Martin was profiled by Zimmerman, he didn't claim they had identical backgrounds.

How much racial profiling did they do in Kenya while Obama was growing up?

My point is he had no relatives of any kind (and certainly none he knew growing up if you include the African colonial experience) affected by segregation, slavery, or oppression in any way.

And i agree with you 100%.

Ha, ok, thanks, I'm a poor reader on these boards so forgive the miscomprehension on my part. Thanks.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Obama comparing himself to Martin is about the most absurd thing in the world, totally self serving invented.

Obama at Martin's age:

- In multicultural Hawaii

- Son of an international aid worker, grew up overseas, no parents at home.

- Never knew his father, who did not stick around for a cup of coffee.

- Raised by white grandmother who was a bank vice president and white grandfather who owned a furniture store.

- Upper class to middle upper class upbringing.

- White & Hawaiin friends

- Half-white American by way of Kansas and WA State (mother), half-Kenyan (father), zero family history with African-American experience of segregation and slavery

- Attended elite upper class expensive prep school

- slacker, smoked the weed, but nonetheless ticketed for expensive exclusive college and grad school future, would one day work in international finance and high end law firm in Chicago

- Not a whiff of trouble in his youth.

Martin compares with these, how?????

Obama was pointing out he was profiled for being black, as Martin was profiled by Zimmerman, he didn't claim they had identical backgrounds.

OH GOODY. I got to use the word Kenya! Just wait until I show my conservative friendz!

I think this is the comment I meant to respond to.

My point is he had no relatives of any kind (and certainly none he knew growing up if you include the African colonial experience) affected by segregation, slavery, or oppression in any way.

 

[Joe McGee]

Has anyone honestly NOT had store clerks follow them around a store before? Happened to me quite a bit when I was a teenager and I was the nerdiest looking white middle class kid you've ever seen. Heck, it happens now. I'll walk into a store, be the only one in there, wander around and the worker just "happens" to be near me the entire time I'm there.

If I walked into the Coach store right now in my khaki shorts and t-shirt, I can guarantee you I'm getting the evil eye and close observation from the clerk.

I was profiled once by a farsighted black cop. He didn't figure out he had the wrong until he got right up in my face. I guess he thought all of us creepy a** crackers looked alike.

 

[timschochet]

Damn. Some of these posts are just amazing. You guys want me out of this thread, I'm out again. I can't deal with Mr. Two Cents, Max Threshold and those that agree with them. You win guys.

 

[drummer]

Obama comparing himself to Martin is about the most absurd thing in the world, totally self serving invented.

Obama at Martin's age:

- In multicultural Hawaii

- Son of an international aid worker, grew up overseas, no parents at home.

- Never knew his father, who did not stick around for a cup of coffee.

- Raised by white grandmother who was a bank vice president and white grandfather who owned a furniture store.

- Upper class to middle upper class upbringing.

- White & Hawaiin friends

- Half-white American by way of Kansas and WA State (mother), half-Kenyan (father), zero family history with African-American experience of segregation and slavery

- Attended elite upper class expensive prep school

- slacker, smoked the weed, but nonetheless ticketed for expensive exclusive college and grad school future, would one day work in international finance and high end law firm in Chicago

- Not a whiff of trouble in his youth.

Martin compares with these, how?????

Obama was pointing out he was profiled for being black, as Martin was profiled by Zimmerman, he didn't claim they had identical backgrounds.

OH GOODY. I got to use the word Kenya! Just wait until I show my conservative friendz!

I think this is the comment I meant to respond to.

My point is he had no relatives of any kind (and certainly none he knew growing up if you include the African colonial experience) affected by segregation, slavery, or oppression in any way.

You don't need to have all that to experience prejudice or any kind of racism.

 

[MaxThreshold]

Has anyone honestly NOT had store clerks follow them around a store before? Happened to me quite a bit when I was a teenager and I was the nerdiest looking white middle class kid you've ever seen. Heck, it happens now. I'll walk into a store, be the only one in there, wander around and the worker just "happens" to be near me the entire time I'm there.

If I walked into the Coach store right now in my khaki shorts and t-shirt, I can guarantee you I'm getting the evil eye and close observation from the clerk.

I was profiled once by a farsighted black cop. He didn't figure out he had the wrong until he got right up in my face. I guess he thought all of us creepy a** crackers looked alike.

You do know that "cracka" means someone who is trying to be like the police, right? So the cop thought you were a creepy ### policeman/security guard?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Obama comparing himself to Martin is about the most absurd thing in the world, totally self serving invented.

Obama at Martin's age:

- In multicultural Hawaii

- Son of an international aid worker, grew up overseas, no parents at home.

- Never knew his father, who did not stick around for a cup of coffee.

- Raised by white grandmother who was a bank vice president and white grandfather who owned a furniture store.

- Upper class to middle upper class upbringing.

- White & Hawaiin friends

- Half-white American by way of Kansas and WA State (mother), half-Kenyan (father), zero family history with African-American experience of segregation and slavery

- Attended elite upper class expensive prep school

- slacker, smoked the weed, but nonetheless ticketed for expensive exclusive college and grad school future, would one day work in international finance and high end law firm in Chicago

- Not a whiff of trouble in his youth.

Martin compares with these, how?????

Obama was pointing out he was profiled for being black, as Martin was profiled by Zimmerman, he didn't claim they had identical backgrounds.

OH GOODY. I got to use the word Kenya! Just wait until I show my conservative friendz!

I think this is the comment I meant to respond to.

My point is he had no relatives of any kind (and certainly none he knew growing up if you include the African colonial experience) affected by segregation, slavery, or oppression in any way.

You don't need to have all that to experience prejudice or any kind of racism.

I was merely speaking to the reference that his father was Kenyan, which he was.

As to your second point, actually cultural heritage is a big, big part of this. How Martin reacted, how Zimmerman (who is half Cuban) reacted, how blacks are reacting to the verdict, and as to Obama his experiences have everything to do with his attempt to place himself in Martibn's shoes - I'd say Obama's background and experiences versus Martin's have a lot to do with that particular aspect of what he said.

 

[17seconds]

Obama comparing himself to Martin is about the most absurd thing in the world, totally self serving invented.

Obama at Martin's age:

- In multicultural Hawaii

- Son of an international aid worker, grew up overseas, no parents at home.

- Never knew his father, who did not stick around for a cup of coffee.

- Raised by white grandmother who was a bank vice president and white grandfather who owned a furniture store.

- Upper class to middle upper class upbringing.

- White & Hawaiin friends

- Half-white American by way of Kansas and WA State (mother), half-Kenyan (father), zero family history with African-American experience of segregation and slavery

- Attended elite upper class expensive prep school

- slacker, smoked the weed, but nonetheless ticketed for expensive exclusive college and grad school future, would one day work in international finance and high end law firm in Chicago

- Not a whiff of trouble in his youth.

Martin compares with these, how?????

Is your point that Zimmerman had all this info?

 

[Joe McGee]

I misspoke. It was security guard at the mall, not a cop. I don't know what he was thinking. I walked away. I sure as hell didn't punch him.