For all the negative things said about.... (1 Viewer)

[Fumbleweed]

I find it interesting that Collins finished about where he was projected to finish fantasy-wise.....as the #6 QB in fantasy football. Yet, I have read posts all over the place that suggest he was a huge fantasy bust. The Raiders were a real-life bust this year....there is no denying this. But, was Collins really a FANTASY bust?.....I say not....I say he finished about where he was projected to in relation to other QBs. What say you?

 

[Sopranos]

He did better than i thought he could...I didnt buy into the hype though. He went pretty high in some drafts.

 

[nerangers]

I find it interesting that Collins finished about where he was projected to finish fantasy-wise.....as the #6 QB in fantasy football. Yet, I have read posts all over the place that suggest he was a huge fantasy bust.

The Raiders were a real-life bust this year....there is no denying this. But, was Collins really a FANTASY bust?.....I say not....I say he finished about where he was projected to in relation to other QBs.

What say you?

Must depend on your scoring system...he finished 11th in our league. Considering many took him as a top 5 QB, I would say bust based on where he was drafted. Eli Manning outscored him in our league by 21 pts...and was drafted as a backup QB.

 

[Family Matters]

I find it interesting that Collins finished about where he was projected to finish fantasy-wise.....as the #6 QB in fantasy football. Yet, I have read posts all over the place that suggest he was a huge fantasy bust.

The Raiders were a real-life bust this year....there is no denying this. But, was Collins really a FANTASY bust?.....I say not....I say he finished about where he was projected to in relation to other QBs.

What say you?

For some he was a huge bust as they thought he would be top 5 easy. I remember many debates about how Moss was going to make him a stud. We tried to make them realize reality but they wouldn't have it. I said maybe top 8 was realistic and that anywher from 6-12 wouldn't surprise me.In my H2H leagues Collins was as follows:

13, 12, 11, 12, 12 & 12. Not exactly an improvement over the year before. In fact his numbers were almost exactly the same over 2004. So what benefit was Moss?

 

[Synthesizer]

Finished as QB #10 in my league. And considering there were highly-drafted QBs outscoring him until they got hurt (McNabb, Bulger) I'd say he was a borderline starter in most leagues and a disappointment. Not a total bust or anything, but a disappointment.

 

[BigTex]

He did fairly well for me, no real dissapointment. It hurt me more when I got benched and he did more on a consistant basis then Vick (my #2 QB). Luckly I picked up Garrad and he carried the torch.I only needed Collins to at least avg 19 pts per game as I have strength at other positions and only needed my QB to keep up with the opposing QBs and not to outscore (just keep up). My RBs, Defs and TEs were my strengths this year.Collins did what I needed him to.

 

[jurb26]

Finished as QB #10 in my league. And considering there were highly-drafted QBs outscoring him until they got hurt (McNabb, Bulger) I'd say he was a borderline starter in most leagues and a disappointment. Not a total bust or anything, but a disappointment.

If you're going to penalize him for other QBs getting hurt that were better than him at the time, then shouldn't we also credit him for how well he was doing before Moss' injury? I believe at that point in time he was in fact top 5 in most leagues.

 

[Velcro]

For some he was a huge bust as they thought he would be top 5 easy. I remember many debates about how Moss was going to make him a stud. We tried to make them realize reality but they wouldn't have it. I said maybe top 8 was realistic and that anywher from 6-12 wouldn't surprise me.

In my H2H leagues Collins was as follows:

13, 12, 11, 12, 12 & 12. Not exactly an improvement over the year before. In fact his numbers were almost exactly the same over 2004. So what benefit was Moss?

I was not a fan of Collins and specifically avoided him in my leagues (mainly because he went to high), but I think Moss was injured much more than anyone knew. That more than anything is why Moss was not a benefit.

 

[Synthesizer]

Finished as QB #10 in my league.  And considering there were highly-drafted QBs outscoring him until they got hurt (McNabb, Bulger) I'd say he was a borderline starter in most leagues and a disappointment.  Not a total bust or anything, but a disappointment.

If you're going to penalize him for other QBs getting hurt that were better than him at the time, then shouldn't we also credit him for how well he was doing before Moss' injury? I believe at that point in time he was in fact top 5 in most leagues.

Moss was still on the field and Collins was still in everyone's lineup. At least teams with McNabb and Bulger were able to go to the waiver wire and try their luck with Warner, McCown, B.Johnson, etc.

 

[Irish]

He finished 5th in my league.

 

[Dynasty]

I find it interesting that Collins finished about where he was projected to finish fantasy-wise.....as the #6 QB in fantasy football.

Must depend on your scoring system...he finished 11th in our league. Considering many took him as a top 5 QB, I would say bust based on where he was drafted.

Collins finished 15th in my league (6 pts/TD, 1 pt/50 yards passing, -2 INT).Collins was #6 in yards passing with 3,759 and # 10/11 in passing TDs with 20. However, he was only 20th in QB rating.

Collins was also weak in rushing numbers with just 38 yards. He did manage to get a TD, though.

In my league, Collins was hurt quite a bit by sack yardage lost (-1 pt/20 yards). He had 261 sack yards lost. That was third worst in the league after Carr and Bledsoe. Collins also had 3 fumbles, more than the average QB.

 

[pinequick]

He finished 5th in my league.

QB11 in our league. Good enough to merit being a starter in our league. . .

 

[jeff_eaglz]

Collins had a strong start and a mediocre / weak finish....If you coupled him with Trent Green you probably did rather well.Collins suffered through a coach trying to save his job, Moss' injury, AND a receiving corps who most likely led the league in drops. I covered one game (Week 16 vs. Denver) where he was under 50% (17 of 41 attempts) and suffered through 8 drops by receivers. As for next year for him, should he hang on with a healthier Moss in Oakland or head elsewhere (Miami would be a good home), he would be a nice value, IMO.

 

[Yenrub]

Finished as 9th QB in my 12 team league.We can keep two players There were 6 QB's kept and 3 QB's drafted before Collins.

 

[Fumbleweed]

I find it interesting that Collins finished about where he was projected to finish fantasy-wise.....as the #6 QB in fantasy football. Yet, I have read posts all over the place that suggest he was a huge fantasy bust.

The Raiders were a real-life bust this year....there is no denying this. But, was Collins really a FANTASY bust?.....I say not....I say he finished about where he was projected to in relation to other QBs.

What say you? 

For some he was a huge bust as they thought he would be top 5 easy. I remember many debates about how Moss was going to make him a stud. We tried to make them realize reality but they wouldn't have it. I said maybe top 8 was realistic and that anywher from 6-12 wouldn't surprise me.In my H2H leagues Collins was as follows:

13, 12, 11, 12, 12 & 12. Not exactly an improvement over the year before. In fact his numbers were almost exactly the same over 2004. So what benefit was Moss?

When a guy projected to be top five finishes just outside of the top 5, that does not make him a "huge bust".

 

[jwvdcw]

For some he was a huge bust as they thought he would be top 5 easy. I remember many debates about how Moss was going to make him a stud. We tried to make them realize reality but they wouldn't have it. I

Collins missed one game, Moss missed one entire game, and Moss was pretty much at 75% or less for half the season and Collins finish as the #6 QB. Do you really think its that much of a stretch to think he finishes one spot higher if Moss is healthy?How many times has KC ever been a top 6 QB before? I still stand by my assertation that a healthy Randy Moss will make any current starting QB a top 5 FF QB and most starting QBs a top 3 FF QB.

Edited to add: He actually finshed #4 in my league, although we reward greatly for distance TDs, so thats probably not the norm. #4....not half bad for Kerry Collins.

 

[jwvdcw]

FWIW, Collins first 4 weeks of the season:265-3263-1345-2218-0Total: 1019 yards, 6 TDsMoss got hurt in their 5th game and was never the same. I realize that this is a small sample size, but those numbers project to 4364 yards and 24 TDs, which would've been top 5 FF numbers.As I said, its a small sample size, but this year does nothing to disprove the theory that Moss, if healthy, will make any QB a top FF QB.

 

[CalBear]

Collins had a strong start and a mediocre / weak finish....

If you coupled him with Trent Green you probably did rather well.

You mean if you took two of the top six QBs taken you probably got the value of one top six QB? (Assuming you started them properly). Sounds like a deal!

 

[jeff_eaglz]

Collins had a strong start and a mediocre / weak finish....

If you coupled him with Trent Green you probably did rather well.

You mean if you took two of the top six QBs taken you probably got the value of one top six QB? (Assuming you started them properly). Sounds like a deal!

Fine, be a smart guy.Does Collins / Warner work better for you? Surely if you picked Collins you could get Warner for your 2.

Collins starting Weeks 1-9 and Warner going 10-14 would have been a very nice set of QBs. Even if you had to revert back to Collins for 15, 16 and 17 you would have over 300 points using standard FBG QB scoring - and that's without a spot starter for Collin's Week 5 bye.

Summary of THAT pairing:

C. Palmer: 318.6

T. Brady: 310.8

Collins / Warner / 0 for Week 5): 302.5

P. Manning: 294.3

Happy now?

 

[Cookiemonster]

I find it interesting that Collins finished about where he was projected to finish fantasy-wise.....as the #6 QB in fantasy football. Yet, I have read posts all over the place that suggest he was a huge fantasy bust.

The Raiders were a real-life bust this year....there is no denying this. But, was Collins really a FANTASY bust?.....I say not....I say he finished about where he was projected to in relation to other QBs.

What say you? 

For some he was a huge bust as they thought he would be top 5 easy. I remember many debates about how Moss was going to make him a stud. We tried to make them realize reality but they wouldn't have it. I said maybe top 8 was realistic and that anywher from 6-12 wouldn't surprise me.In my H2H leagues Collins was as follows:

13, 12, 11, 12, 12 & 12. Not exactly an improvement over the year before. In fact his numbers were almost exactly the same over 2004. So what benefit was Moss?

When a guy projected to be top five finishes just outside of the top 5, that does not make him a "huge bust".

I had K.Jones, A.Johnson, Horn, J.J. Arrington, Griese AND Brooks (and T.O.). Don't cry to me that a top 5 projection falls to a top 10.As for Collins, a healthy Moss does put him near top 5. Upside for the #2 spot. As a N.Cali resident and disgusted Raider fan, O-line can't support an immobile QB and Collins is dumb as a sack of rocks. Add to that his arm is a rocket. No, that's not a compliment 'cause its ALWAYS a rocket... even to TEs and FBs that are only 10 yards away from him.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Collins was projected to be a stud with Moss.Clearly, at 10-15th rank depending on rules he was a major bust.

 

[snogger]

I find it interesting that Collins finished about where he was projected to finish fantasy-wise.....as the #6 QB in fantasy football. Yet, I have read posts all over the place that suggest he was a huge fantasy bust.

The Raiders were a real-life bust this year....there is no denying this. But, was Collins really a FANTASY bust?.....I say not....I say he finished about where he was projected to in relation to other QBs.

What say you?

I believe he would have finished about 9th or Tenth if injury's had not over taken Starting QB's this year.McNabb, Culpepper, Bulger all with full seasons, IMO, Would have finished higher.

And that explains the sad state of affairs of starting QB's in the NFL right now.

 

[Family Matters]

For some he was a huge bust as they thought he would be top 5 easy. I remember many debates about how Moss was going to make him a stud. We tried to make them realize reality but they wouldn't have it. I

Collins missed one game, Moss missed one entire game, and Moss was pretty much at 75% or less for half the season and Collins finish as the #6 QB. Do you really think its that much of a stretch to think he finishes one spot higher if Moss is healthy?How many times has KC ever been a top 6 QB before? I still stand by my assertation that a healthy Randy Moss will make any current starting QB a top 5 FF QB and most starting QBs a top 3 FF QB.

Edited to add: He actually finshed #4 in my league, although we reward greatly for distance TDs, so thats probably not the norm. #4....not half bad for Kerry Collins.

Well I was looking at like this: He finished the same as last year. Last year he had Moss for zero games. This year he had Moss for how many? 14, 12 10? In any case it was substanial compared to last year. And yet he did no better. And he did not finish 6th in any of my leagues. Unless you play in leagues that do not count INT's he likely finished around 10-12.

 

[Cookiemonster]

For some he was a huge bust as they thought he would be top 5 easy. I remember many debates about how Moss was going to make him a stud. We tried to make them realize reality but they wouldn't have it. I

Collins missed one game, Moss missed one entire game, and Moss was pretty much at 75% or less for half the season and Collins finish as the #6 QB. Do you really think its that much of a stretch to think he finishes one spot higher if Moss is healthy?How many times has KC ever been a top 6 QB before? I still stand by my assertation that a healthy Randy Moss will make any current starting QB a top 5 FF QB and most starting QBs a top 3 FF QB.

Edited to add: He actually finshed #4 in my league, although we reward greatly for distance TDs, so thats probably not the norm. #4....not half bad for Kerry Collins.

Well I was looking at like this: He finished the same as last year. Last year he had Moss for zero games. This year he had Moss for how many? 14, 12 10? In any case it was substanial compared to last year. And yet he did no better. And he did not finish 6th in any of my leagues. Unless you play in leagues that do not count INT's he likely finished around 10-12.

If you didn't see the games, don't comment on what he did w/ Moss. In reality, he didn't have Moss after the 1st month of the season.

 

[LAUNCH]

Collins was projected to be a stud with Moss.

Clearly, at 10-15th rank depending on rules he was a major bust.

My guess would be that there were just bad projections being made.LAUNCH

 

[Family Matters]

For some he was a huge bust as they thought he would be top 5 easy. I remember many debates about how Moss was going to make him a stud. We tried to make them realize reality but they wouldn't have it. I

Collins missed one game, Moss missed one entire game, and Moss was pretty much at 75% or less for half the season and Collins finish as the #6 QB. Do you really think its that much of a stretch to think he finishes one spot higher if Moss is healthy?How many times has KC ever been a top 6 QB before? I still stand by my assertation that a healthy Randy Moss will make any current starting QB a top 5 FF QB and most starting QBs a top 3 FF QB.

Edited to add: He actually finshed #4 in my league, although we reward greatly for distance TDs, so thats probably not the norm. #4....not half bad for Kerry Collins.

Well I was looking at like this: He finished the same as last year. Last year he had Moss for zero games. This year he had Moss for how many? 14, 12 10? In any case it was substanial compared to last year. And yet he did no better. And he did not finish 6th in any of my leagues. Unless you play in leagues that do not count INT's he likely finished around 10-12.

If you didn't see the games, don't comment on what he did w/ Moss. In reality, he didn't have Moss after the 1st month of the season.

I can assure you that you do not have to watch the games to understand what happened statistically. You just look at them and make some analysis. For example:Here are the stats in the first 4 games, games 5-8 and 2nd half:

games 1-4 avg.:Collins: 272 yds and 1.5 TD's

games 1-4 avg.:Moss: 116 yds and .5 TD's

games 5-8 avg.:Collins: 241 yds and 1.5 TD's

games 5-8 avg.:Moss: 19 yds and .5 TD's.

(Notice how Collins yads dropped 12% but TD's remained the same).

games 9-16 avg.: Collins: 243 yds and 1.14 TD's.

games 9-16 avg.: Moss: 58 yds and .5 TD's.

(Notice how Collins TD's lowered despite Moss return).

Looks to me the biggest impact was in the yardage. Collins yds per game dropped after Moss was injured and yet his TD's remained the same. The rest of the season shows only 1 game where Moss had an impact: week 17. Moss had 331 and 3. Granted, Moss was playing injured some of those games.

So I do not see where Moss was much of an impact on Collins. Now 1 thing that I did notice was Collins INT's went down, much to my surprise. I did not think he could make better decisions and he did. How much of that was due to Moss? I have no idea.

Further, Moss did not help the running game either. While Moss was healthy (games 1-4) Jordan avg 3.65 YPC. Not the level of performance they were looking for.

 

[CalBear]

Games 1-3 were played against New England, Kansas, and Philadelphia; the #31, #30, and #21 ranked defenses against the pass. That had more to do with Collins' performance than Moss's presence did; game 4, Collins had 218 yards and no TDs. Collins' stats are also unfairly raised by week 17, when playing against the backups of the #27 pass defense, he had his best statistical game of the year (331 yards, 3 TD, zero INT). Most leagues are over by then. If you annualize his performance in the first 16 games, it comes out to 3642 yards and 18 TDs, not near the top 10. I wouldn't call him a bust, but he certainly was a disappointment to his owners. Though perhaps a predictable one.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Finished as QB #10 in my league. And considering there were highly-drafted QBs outscoring him until they got hurt (McNabb, Bulger) I'd say he was a borderline starter in most leagues and a disappointment. Not a total bust or anything, but a disappointment.

Same here. 10th in my league and if guys like Culpepper, McNabb and Bulger, just to name a few, didn't get hurt he's have been lower. So while he technically wasn't a bust, the guy who chose him in the fourth round of my league was probably disappointed.

 

[Family Matters]

Games 1-3 were played against New England, Kansas, and Philadelphia; the #31, #30, and #21 ranked defenses against the pass. That had more to do with Collins' performance than Moss's presence did; game 4, Collins had 218 yards and no TDs.

Collins' stats are also unfairly raised by week 17, when playing against the backups of the #27 pass defense, he had his best statistical game of the year (331 yards, 3 TD, zero INT). Most leagues are over by then. If you annualize his performance in the first 16 games, it comes out to 3642 yards and 18 TDs, not near the top 10.

I wouldn't call him a bust, but he certainly was a disappointment to his owners. Though perhaps a predictable one.

Good post CalBear and that was my point. Many had predicted Collins to be a top 5 or perhaps even the #1 QB because of Moss. I had stated that Moss wasn't going to make him that much better than last year. My reasoning was slightly flawed however because part of my arguement was that he would continue to make bad decsions. Well he did improve on that part but yet his stats remained the same.BTW-too bad you didn't agree with me on Palmer.

 

[CalBear]

BTW-too bad you didn't agree with me on Palmer.

Palmer was protected in my league anyway. I took Brooks and Boller and won a Super Bowl.

 

[Family Matters]

BTW-too bad you didn't agree with me on Palmer.

Palmer was protected in my league anyway. I took Brooks and Boller and won a Super Bowl.

Congrats! That's what counts!

 

[jwvdcw]

Collins was projected to be a stud with Moss.

Clearly, at 10-15th rank depending on rules he was a major bust.

Are you not reading where he finished in most people's leagues?

 

[jwvdcw]

For some he was a huge bust as they thought he would be top 5 easy. I remember many debates about how Moss was going to make him a stud. We tried to make them realize reality but they wouldn't have it. I

Collins missed one game, Moss missed one entire game, and Moss was pretty much at 75% or less for half the season and Collins finish as the #6 QB. Do you really think its that much of a stretch to think he finishes one spot higher if Moss is healthy?How many times has KC ever been a top 6 QB before? I still stand by my assertation that a healthy Randy Moss will make any current starting QB a top 5 FF QB and most starting QBs a top 3 FF QB.

Edited to add: He actually finshed #4 in my league, although we reward greatly for distance TDs, so thats probably not the norm. #4....not half bad for Kerry Collins.

Well I was looking at like this: He finished the same as last year. Last year he had Moss for zero games. This year he had Moss for how many? 14, 12 10? In any case it was substanial compared to last year. And yet he did no better. And he did not finish 6th in any of my leagues. Unless you play in leagues that do not count INT's he likely finished around 10-12.

There were 16 QBs with equal or more INTs than him. Counting INTs against a QB should've only helped him.

 

[jwvdcw]

Games 1-3 were played against New England, Kansas, and Philadelphia; the #31, #30, and #21 ranked defenses against the pass. That had more to do with Collins' performance than Moss's presence did; game 4, Collins had 218 yards and no TDs.

Collins' stats are also unfairly raised by week 17, when playing against the backups of the #27 pass defense, he had his best statistical game of the year (331 yards, 3 TD, zero INT). Most leagues are over by then. If you annualize his performance in the first 16 games, it comes out to 3642 yards and 18 TDs, not near the top 10.

I wouldn't call him a bust, but he certainly was a disappointment to his owners. Though perhaps a predictable one.

The Giants would've been the #6 seed and on the road for their first playoff game if they lost that game. Why do you think they were playing backups?

 

[jwvdcw]

Games 1-3 were played against New England, Kansas, and Philadelphia; the #31, #30, and #21 ranked defenses against the pass.  That had more to do with Collins' performance than Moss's presence did; game 4, Collins had 218 yards and no TDs. 

Collins' stats are also unfairly raised by week 17, when playing against the backups of the #27 pass defense, he had his best statistical game of the year (331 yards, 3 TD, zero INT).  Most leagues are over by then.  If you annualize his performance in the first 16 games, it comes out to 3642 yards and 18 TDs, not near the top 10. 

I wouldn't call him a bust, but he certainly was a disappointment to his owners.  Though perhaps a predictable one.

Good post CalBear and that was my point. Many had predicted Collins to be a top 5 or perhaps even the #1 QB because of Moss. I had stated that Moss wasn't going to make him that much better than last year. My reasoning was slightly flawed however because part of my arguement was that he would continue to make bad decsions. Well he did improve on that part but yet his stats remained the same.BTW-too bad you didn't agree with me on Palmer.

Please note that before Moss got hurt, Collins was a top 5 QB. I realize that 4 games isn't a huge sample size though.

 

[CalBear]

Please note that before Moss got hurt, Collins was top-5 in terms of bad pass defenses played against.

Fixed.

 

[Family Matters]

Games 1-3 were played against New England, Kansas, and Philadelphia; the #31, #30, and #21 ranked defenses against the pass.  That had more to do with Collins' performance than Moss's presence did; game 4, Collins had 218 yards and no TDs. 

Collins' stats are also unfairly raised by week 17, when playing against the backups of the #27 pass defense, he had his best statistical game of the year (331 yards, 3 TD, zero INT).  Most leagues are over by then.  If you annualize his performance in the first 16 games, it comes out to 3642 yards and 18 TDs, not near the top 10. 

I wouldn't call him a bust, but he certainly was a disappointment to his owners.  Though perhaps a predictable one.

Good post CalBear and that was my point. Many had predicted Collins to be a top 5 or perhaps even the #1 QB because of Moss. I had stated that Moss wasn't going to make him that much better than last year. My reasoning was slightly flawed however because part of my arguement was that he would continue to make bad decsions. Well he did improve on that part but yet his stats remained the same.BTW-too bad you didn't agree with me on Palmer.

Please note that before Moss got hurt, Collins was a top 5 QB. I realize that 4 games isn't a huge sample size though.

I remember that you were one of the ones that thought he was going to be top3 I think it you said. You said he would be top 3 because of Moss. Right? What say you now?

 

[Synthesizer]

When you consider that he was top 5 for the first month and his highest scoring game of the year was week 17 after most leagues were already finished, that makes his #10 overall numbers look even worse. From weeks 5-16 he was probably about QB #15 and shouldn't have been starting in most leagues. Moss was still on the field and Collins had plenty of other weapons to work with. Bad season.* I'm using standard scoring. If he finished as QB6 or so in your league, I'd say your league is in the minority.

 

[shakeybarn]

Finished as QB #10 in my league. And considering there were highly-drafted QBs outscoring him until they got hurt (McNabb, Bulger) I'd say he was a borderline starter in most leagues and a disappointment. Not a total bust or anything, but a disappointment.

Two additional points in a Collins argument.1. FANTASY VOLATILITY -

Plaxico Burress was the #10 WR in one of my leagues. If I polled the board, I can't see many ppl replying that Burress was a solid #1 WR to have.

Beginning of the year he started out solidily consistent (and a good bread winner, too).

Week Recep Recep Yds Recep TDs

1 5 76 1

2 5 64 0

3 5 52 1

very consistent

4 10 204 2

6 5 55 0

7 6 84 1

still solid

but the rest of the year is just awful.

8 4 42 0

9 5 79 0

10 3 50 0

11 6 113 1

12 6 109 0

13 4 47 0

14 2 37 0 -

15 2 34 0 - PHI and KC, how does that happen?

16 3 40 0

17 5 128 1

18 0 0 0 - this hurt for us playoff format leagues

The problem is you are looking at final points. A QB who has one big week, one so-so week, and one poor week, hurts teams more than an even keel QB. Granted, sometimes these "swings" are predictable, and you can start your #2 accordingly. Collins was "okay" in this cat, though ending the year with 132/1, 178/0, then 331/3 doesnt' do owners good.

In one of my leagues systems (probably close enough to yours, of the top 10 scoring QBs... the rank of CONSISTENCY was as follows (BYE weeks and "playoff lock" weeks thrown out):

Green, Trent

Hasselbeck, Matt

Palmer, Carson

Brady, Tom

Plummer, Jake

Collins, Kerry

Manning, Eli

Vick, Michael

Brees, Drew

Manning, Peyton

Trent Green averaged ~15 pts a week in that league... he only had 2 weeks 25% over that average, and 3 weeks below it. Otherwise, out of 11 weeks during the year, you could pretty much expect 15 pts, give or take.

I've noticed Green to be the most consistent QB over recent times, by the way.

Volatility is an oft, and over-geeky, important stat in fantasy. Yes you want points, but you want to know week in / week out how your QB will perform. QBs with low volitality can be better predicted vs easy and hard matchups as well.

2. The #8 or the #10 QB in a 10 or 12 team league...although suffice, and he's not a "bust" keep in mind... there are mostly likely 6 or 7 teams in your league with better QBs.... including 4 or 5 who scored 10 to 15% more points than Collins (a big diff in fantasy, by the way).

 

[jwvdcw]

Games 1-3 were played against New England, Kansas, and Philadelphia; the #31, #30, and #21 ranked defenses against the pass.  That had more to do with Collins' performance than Moss's presence did; game 4, Collins had 218 yards and no TDs. 

Collins' stats are also unfairly raised by week 17, when playing against the backups of the #27 pass defense, he had his best statistical game of the year (331 yards, 3 TD, zero INT).  Most leagues are over by then.  If you annualize his performance in the first 16 games, it comes out to 3642 yards and 18 TDs, not near the top 10. 

I wouldn't call him a bust, but he certainly was a disappointment to his owners.  Though perhaps a predictable one.

Good post CalBear and that was my point. Many had predicted Collins to be a top 5 or perhaps even the #1 QB because of Moss. I had stated that Moss wasn't going to make him that much better than last year. My reasoning was slightly flawed however because part of my arguement was that he would continue to make bad decsions. Well he did improve on that part but yet his stats remained the same.BTW-too bad you didn't agree with me on Palmer.

Please note that before Moss got hurt, Collins was a top 5 QB. I realize that 4 games isn't a huge sample size though.

I remember that you were one of the ones that thought he was going to be top3 I think it you said. You said he would be top 3 because of Moss. Right? What say you now?

I say that he was top 3 until Moss got hurt. Come on, you can't really think that Moss getting hurt played no part in this at all.

 

[Family Matters]

Finished as QB #10 in my league.  And considering there were highly-drafted QBs outscoring him until they got hurt (McNabb, Bulger) I'd say he was a borderline starter in most leagues and a disappointment.  Not a total bust or anything, but a disappointment.

Two additional points in a Collins argument.1. FANTASY VOLATILITY -

Plaxico Burress was the #10 WR in one of my leagues. If I polled the board, I can't see many ppl replying that Burress was a solid #1 WR to have.

Beginning of the year he started out solidily consistent (and a good bread winner, too).

Week Recep Recep Yds Recep TDs

1 5 76 1

2 5 64 0

3 5 52 1

very consistent

4 10 204 2

6 5 55 0

7 6 84 1

still solid

but the rest of the year is just awful.

8 4 42 0

9 5 79 0

10 3 50 0

11 6 113 1

12 6 109 0

13 4 47 0

14 2 37 0 -

15 2 34 0 - PHI and KC, how does that happen?

16 3 40 0

17 5 128 1

18 0 0 0 - this hurt for us playoff format leagues

The problem is you are looking at final points. A QB who has one big week, one so-so week, and one poor week, hurts teams more than an even keel QB. Granted, sometimes these "swings" are predictable, and you can start your #2 accordingly. Collins was "okay" in this cat, though ending the year with 132/1, 178/0, then 331/3 doesnt' do owners good.

In one of my leagues systems (probably close enough to yours, of the top 10 scoring QBs... the rank of CONSISTENCY was as follows (BYE weeks and "playoff lock" weeks thrown out):

Green, Trent

Hasselbeck, Matt

Palmer, Carson

Brady, Tom

Plummer, Jake

Collins, Kerry

Manning, Eli

Vick, Michael

Brees, Drew

Manning, Peyton

Trent Green averaged ~15 pts a week in that league... he only had 2 weeks 25% over that average, and 3 weeks below it. Otherwise, out of 11 weeks during the year, you could pretty much expect 15 pts, give or take.

I've noticed Green to be the most consistent QB over recent times, by the way.

Volatility is an oft, and over-geeky, important stat in fantasy. Yes you want points, but you want to know week in / week out how your QB will perform. QBs with low volitality can be better predicted vs easy and hard matchups as well.

2. The #8 or the #10 QB in a 10 or 12 team league...although suffice, and he's not a "bust" keep in mind... there are mostly likely 6 or 7 teams in your league with better QBs.... including 4 or 5 who scored 10 to 15% more points than Collins (a big diff in fantasy, by the way).

This is a good post and makes sense.

 

[jwvdcw]

Family Matters, I would hope that you and I would both be sensible enough to agree on two things:1. Culpepper was obviously overrated due to having played with Moss.2. With Moss being hurt nearly the entire year, we really can't draw too many conclusions about how well Collins would do with Moss.

 

[Family Matters]

Family Matters, I would hope that you and I would both be sensible enough to agree on two things:

1. Culpepper was obviously overrated due to having played with Moss.

2. With Moss being hurt nearly the entire year, we really can't draw too many conclusions about how well Collins would do with Moss.

I cannot agree with either statement. And for you to suggest it is a reach at best. But rather than go throught the entire debate again I think it would be wise to wait for more data before drawing any more conclusions.Before you go off about Cpep, all you need to do is look at the year prior to dispell the "Moss makes Cpep" claim.