Post calling you a rump swab incomingHonestly if you're going to act like a petulant child every time someone posts something that disagrees with your politics, you should take your ####### to the local skate park and argue with someone your own age. Seriously are you that immature? Hint: most 70-year-old men like you don't act like this. glllllllllllllll
Alright let it go to Mexico then
JFC some of you people . Seriously what a bunch of pisspots
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Ford cancels plant in Mexico; investing $700M in Michigan (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter rascal
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GoBirds
Footballguy
He did so great the candidate that ran on continuing his policies lost states they hadn't lost in decades.
Nice of you to continue bringing facts about jobs over the past 8 years instead of random political BSHe did so great the candidate that ran on continuing his policies lost states they hadn't lost in decades.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Even when you try to have an intelligent conversation with the likes of Hell Toupee it is just impossible. You can give them a 2 hour speech on economies of scale and they will concentrate on one sentence where you said you had Thai food for lunch.
HellToupee
Footballguy
About anything in particular? I've posted plenty about the economic policies that Obama and Bernie supported but I did not. I've posted my views on this Ford deal above, which you didn't respond to. What is your point here?
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
The one good thing about the American auto industry right now is they actually are putting out competitive products. The reason for the decline in manufacturing dominance and particularity in auto production is complex. You can blame unions, runaway wages, poor production methods, loss of local suppliers, etc. But the biggest factor IMO was that we just built some really ####ty cars in the 60s, 70s, and 80s and lost market share to Toyota and Honda who made competitively priced cars that ran forever.
U.S. cars have always been good at adding the bells and whistles, the style, the flare that captured the essence of Americans. Then we started making Pintos and Chevettes to compete with the Corolla and Civic, and other horrible cars that didn't even last 40k miles. Even when we did make good cars then GM had to screw it up by Now we are ahead of the Japanese and Koreans in style points, we still make powerful engines people want, and we're leading in the development of auto technology. Cars still aren't as reliable as the Japanese but the gap has closed significantly over the past 20 years.
It's hard to believe it took us this long though. Even with all the excuses that made U.S. cars more expensive how we couldn't make reliable vehicles for three+ decades is amazing to me. You would think by the mid 80s GM and Ford would have recognized they were not going to recover market share if they kept making stuff that just fell apart. Cheaper parts or not, having to take your car to get repaired several times a year is obnoxious. Especially when your Toyota driving neighbor was putting oil in twice a year, tires on every four years, and driving his grip into the ground.
I grew up in all this stuff, I can't say I feel sorry for the industry but it has also impacted pretty much everyone I have ever known from my childhood. Seems we got fat and lazy at exactly the wrong time.
U.S. cars have always been good at adding the bells and whistles, the style, the flare that captured the essence of Americans. Then we started making Pintos and Chevettes to compete with the Corolla and Civic, and other horrible cars that didn't even last 40k miles. Even when we did make good cars then GM had to screw it up by Now we are ahead of the Japanese and Koreans in style points, we still make powerful engines people want, and we're leading in the development of auto technology. Cars still aren't as reliable as the Japanese but the gap has closed significantly over the past 20 years.
It's hard to believe it took us this long though. Even with all the excuses that made U.S. cars more expensive how we couldn't make reliable vehicles for three+ decades is amazing to me. You would think by the mid 80s GM and Ford would have recognized they were not going to recover market share if they kept making stuff that just fell apart. Cheaper parts or not, having to take your car to get repaired several times a year is obnoxious. Especially when your Toyota driving neighbor was putting oil in twice a year, tires on every four years, and driving his grip into the ground.
I grew up in all this stuff, I can't say I feel sorry for the industry but it has also impacted pretty much everyone I have ever known from my childhood. Seems we got fat and lazy at exactly the wrong time.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Subaru 5 yrs old 50k miles, paid $20k new, worth $12k according to KBB...find me a similar American car before you try and convince any of us American cars are just as good. We are lucky to have your POV on the boards and I'm scared your gonna pull the Im Mr Detroit on me but as a life long Honda and now Subaru owners, one time I bought a Chevy and never again. I think as I paid the last payment it died right then and there. Never again.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
I didn't say they were just as good, some of them are, but we still lag behind the Japanese. What I said was that we've closed the gap and there really are some good vehicles out there. The Ford Fusion, The Lincoln MKX, The Ford Fiesta, a few others (Buick products), and our trucks absolutely destroy foreign competition. Ford makes good products, ones I would buy now. I'm with you on chevys and GM products in general. I have made fun of those stupid Chevy commercials to no end here, my family has them and the only one that seems worth the #### is my Dad's Chevy Equinox. My sister bought a GMC Arcadia or whatever and the engine blew up three months later, it was like a 2011.
I own two Hondas and five Hondas in a row. I've had Honda, BMW, or Ford for my last ten vehicles so I'm not the one who is waiving the flag for American vehicles. I'm simply saying that there are some good cars out there now that definitely compete with foreign makers, and because American cars usually come with many more options, it's worth looking into if you are in the market for a new ride. Used? Look at Consumer Reports, there is a lot of crap out there even among the Toyotas (Tundra :X ) of the world.
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Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
If all you read from Ford today was the Tweet it sounded reactionary and shortsighted. Not a problem with Trump supporters, but they knew that was the audience. When the CEO went on CNBC, he talked about long-term plans, how Ford's future isn't in the compact and economy cars they build in Mexico, but expanding their hybrids and getting into the self-driving market. Curious if a hybrid F-150 or Mustang has a market, but I'd rather back a company trying to innovate than trying to compete in low-margin low-ceiling markets like compacts with lower barriers to entry.
I was going to say they buried the lede, but looking back on the day they knew exactly which message to push to which audience.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
I was just looking at Consumer Reports "Best bets" for used cars by brand across all platforms based on expected reliability:
Toyota/Lexus/Scion 22 models
Honda/Acura 9
Mazda 4
Ford/Lincoln/Mercury 4
Hyundai/Kia 3
Nissan/Infiniti 3
Mercedes 2
Subaru 2
Pontiac 1
Buick 1
BMW/Mini 0
Audi 0
Chevy/Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge/Cadillac/GMC 0
Malibu, Cruze, and Impala all received high recommendations for 2016 though.
Toyota/Lexus/Scion 22 models
Honda/Acura 9
Mazda 4
Ford/Lincoln/Mercury 4
Hyundai/Kia 3
Nissan/Infiniti 3
Mercedes 2
Subaru 2
Pontiac 1
Buick 1
BMW/Mini 0
Audi 0
Chevy/Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge/Cadillac/GMC 0
Malibu, Cruze, and Impala all received high recommendations for 2016 though.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
In 2014 the Subaru Impreza '11-'13 models including the 5 door hatch we have were rated best in the 15-20k range, guess that has helped a ton in retaining their value.
I would also point out that AWD standard on that not so little hatchback makes for one of the smoothest rides you will find anywhere near that price range. Wish the engine had more power but you simply have to stretch for a WRX.
My Silver V6 Accord Coupe was a gift from the Mrs when I graduated college and it's getting to that point. 70k when I got it and 140k now...it still runs fine but I find myself taking her car out for a lot of errands and such. My next car is likely to be a used WRX Hatch, they didn't sell a lot of them but they are out there.
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Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Not trying to sidetrack this thread, but I think to the point of manufacturing what you've said here is important. You're brand loyal, and as a consumer brand loyalty is crucial. Apple, Subaru, Seiko, Astroglide™, etc. Our grandparents bought Ford after Ford, Chevy after Chevy, Pontiac after Pontiac. Then we stopped making cars well and Baby Boomers and their heavy spending ways had to make logical financial decisions. Buy a Honda that lasts forever and retains it's retail value, or buy a Chevy Cavalier which might not break down in the first year you own it?
The American automakers didn't adjust to the consumer, and this was the Greatest Generation who did this. For all the :confetti: and accolades that generation received for all the things they did for our country in winning wars and building wealth, it lacked foresight and strategic vision in consumer affairs. When I was growing up no one dared drive a Honda or Toyota in Michigan, there are stories of guys who drove their Accords to work and the car had no glass left when they got out. That's the auto industry guys realizing they were ####ed, the Japanese ended up being at least 30 years ahead of the curve in automobile manufacturing. Now? The playing field has leveled, but they've lost you and so many others because of the
of the 70s and 80s in particular.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
DD you nailed it and summed it up well.
I do say though if I were to buy a truck I would look at an F-150 because it's the Gold Standard of trucks it would seem. We just don't buy trucks and SUVs but most Americans want big everything.
I do say though if I were to buy a truck I would look at an F-150 because it's the Gold Standard of trucks it would seem. We just don't buy trucks and SUVs but most Americans want big everything.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
I do work for many suppliers for the Big 3, Toyota and Honda. The industry has changed dramatically the last 20-25 years, Cars in the same class from different companies used to be total strangers, now they are like family as the auto manufacturers all use many of the same suppliers. It is just way more cost effective to produce. The design might be a little different but the cars are pretty much the same in terms of materials used. The assembly has also changed. If you go into any auto plant now it is hard to tell the difference from Ford, to Honda, to GM or whatever in terms of how they are put together. In the 60s and 70s the Japanese copied American auto production and then upgraded everything. In the mid 90s American companies finally started copying Japanese production methods.
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red stripe
Footballguy
Decent article from the Detroit Free Press this morning
Trump on Twitter is upending the world of CEOs
Trump on Twitter is upending the world of CEOs
Statorama
Footballguy
I'm glad Ford didn't cave on taxpayer bailouts.
It's 7 years later, but it still infuriates me that GM has the audacity to make the repayment claims they do.
If you'd like to hate big business and the Obama Administration even more, check out this Opinion piece from Senator Chuck Grassley on the GM bailout repayment claims
Statorama
Footballguy
Unions.Not trying to sidetrack this thread, but I think to the point of manufacturing what you've said here is important. You're brand loyal, and as a consumer brand loyalty is crucial. Apple, Subaru, Seiko, Astroglide™, etc. Our grandparents bought Ford after Ford, Chevy after Chevy, Pontiac after Pontiac. Then we stopped making cars well and Baby Boomers and their heavy spending ways had to make logical financial decisions. Buy a Honda that lasts forever and retains it's retail value, or buy a Chevy Cavalier which might not break down in the first year you own it?
The American automakers didn't adjust to the consumer, and this was the Greatest Generation who did this. For all the :confetti: and accolades that generation received for all the things they did for our country in winning wars and building wealth, it lacked foresight and strategic vision in consumer affairs. When I was growing up no one dared drive a Honda or Toyota in Michigan, there are stories of guys who drove their Accords to work and the car had no glass left when they got out. That's the auto industry guys realizing they were ####ed, the Japanese ended up being at least 30 years ahead of the curve in automobile manufacturing. Now? The playing field has leveled, but they've lost you and so many others because of the
Oh, and
Astroglide™
msommer
Footballguy
Van Dyman
Footballguy
msommer
Footballguy
If you look on the streets outside of the US they are not filled with American vehicles, haven't been for a long time. The "Truck", so ubiquitous in the US, is a niche farming vehicle in the rest of the world (with the possible exception of the Middle East that have adopted more creative uses, but some seemingly prefer ToyotasNot trying to sidetrack this thread, but I think to the point of manufacturing
.....
That's the auto industry guys realizing they were ####ed, the Japanese ended up being at least 30 years ahead of the curve in automobile manufacturing. Now? The playing field has leveled, but they've lost you and so many others because of the
)Ford specifically is a well respected brand in Europe and the eastern parts of South America. For their passenger cars, and to a lesser extent SUVs/MPVs, in South America you can add Trucks as well, I suppose, but in farming, not urban use.
So as an international investor (at least potentially, right) hearing that Ford will scale down on the smaller cars that the rest of the world buys to concentrate (even more) on large vehicles only Americans buy is not something to go all
about. Even if they say, as all other car manufacturers that they will be researching and producing autonomous cars.To me it reads like - "we see potential disruption in the small car market and are not committed to growing this in the near future. Instead we'll sink a lot of money in R&D to hope that in the transition and beyond to more autonomous cars we'll still be relevant. In the mean time we'll focus on producing even more cars for Americans only to bolster our short term outlook while betting the farm from a weakened platform"
It may still be the right thing to do.
Gustavo Fring
Footballguy
Make Detroit Mediocre Again!
Van Dyman
Footballguy
VW is expanding its plant in Chattanooga, TN to add SUV production to the existing production (Passat?). I think they began building pilot vehicles last fall. Seems like everything is progressing fine. I don't know if it will actually result in 2,000 new jobs, but the expansion is well under way.
Statorama
Footballguy
Hopefully Trump can either dismantle the NLRB or at least kick all the Socialists out of there and we can have companies start expanding across the US (remember the NLRB trying to block Boeing from building a plant in South Carolina?)
parrot
Footballguy
Does anyone know if this is the same $700 million investment they announced almost a year ago, or an additional $700 million?
Posted April 5, 2016
Ford Motor Co. dinged for plan to build $1.6 billion plant in Mexico
http://www.pressherald.com/2016/04/05/ford-motor-co-dinged-for-plan-to-build-1-6-billion-plant-in-mexico/
Quote
The UAW’s new four-year contract with Ford, signed last year, guarantees new vehicles for the Wayne, Michigan, assembly plant and a $700 million investment that preserves the plant’s 3,924 jobs. Union members have said they expect the factory to get a new version of the Ranger small pickup and a new small SUV called the Bronco.
Posted April 5, 2016
Ford Motor Co. dinged for plan to build $1.6 billion plant in Mexico
http://www.pressherald.com/2016/04/05/ford-motor-co-dinged-for-plan-to-build-1-6-billion-plant-in-mexico/
Quote
The UAW’s new four-year contract with Ford, signed last year, guarantees new vehicles for the Wayne, Michigan, assembly plant and a $700 million investment that preserves the plant’s 3,924 jobs. Union members have said they expect the factory to get a new version of the Ranger small pickup and a new small SUV called the Bronco.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Nugget
Footballguy
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