Francis Scott Key Bridge (I-695) in Baltimore collapes (1 Viewer)

[FairWarning]

Looks like a number of big brain gigachads are driving or running towards the ruined bridge to do their own research.

And everybody's suddenly an expert civil engineer.

"The bridge collapsed too fast. It must've had other structural issues"

"They shouldn't build bridges like that. They could collapse at any time"

I would seriously caution folks to not jump to conclusions.
The last thing on my mind is this was done on purpose by either an individual or group

-Maybe the captain fell asleep at 1:30 in the morning, we don't really know and it's going to take weeks before investigators can gather all the information and form a conclusion
I made that up but it's more plausible than some of the conspiracies that will likely circulate

it's throwing out wild things like this that allows conspiracy talk to steam roll and pick up a life of their own

Hey Joe, I was just trying to say the explanation might be something simple that nobody wants to believe
Obviously the lights going on and off the ship which i never saw until I opened the 2nd thread on this disaster, might have just been mechanical issues.
Captain sleeping is not a conspiracy theory IMHO but I don't want to argue with you

They said the boat called the authorities ahead, and said they had major power issues. No idea if that was an hour or five minutes, but it was said on TV that they were able to keep some people off the bridge. So it doesn't sound like anyone fell asleep or whatevs.

According to BBC, the power went out 20 min before the accident.

 

[mr. furley]

Any over under for when they have it rebuilt? 1 yr? How do they resume boat traffic while doing the construction?

Anyone think season 2 of the wire was underrated?

WAG - 1.5 years at an absolute minimum.

I guess that's not an O/U... For that, say 2.5 years.

This would be a good time for somebody in a position of authority to step up and prove us wrong. I've said many times before that the US in 2024 would be incapable of building the interstate highway system from scratch, and we've all seen how assorted public works projects involving high-speed rail have gone. It's not like the technology here is complicated or anything -- we've just chosen as a society to make this sort of thing impossible.

somebody help me out as i'm light on the specifics ... didn't the US just rebuild a collapsed bridge in more like a few weeks vs 1+ years?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Any over under for when they have it rebuilt? 1 yr? How do they resume boat traffic while doing the construction?

Anyone think season 2 of the wire was underrated?

WAG - 1.5 years at an absolute minimum.

I guess that's not an O/U... For that, say 2.5 years.

This would be a good time for somebody in a position of authority to step up and prove us wrong. I've said many times before that the US in 2024 would be incapable of building the interstate highway system from scratch, and we've all seen how assorted public works projects involving high-speed rail have gone. It's not like the technology here is complicated or anything -- we've just chosen as a society to make this sort of thing impossible.

somebody help me out as i'm light on the specifics ... didn't the US just rebuild a collapsed bridge in more like a few weeks vs 1+ years?

Florida did that shortly after a recent hurricane, but my sense is that the engineering was much simpler there. I could be totally wrong about that though. (Edit: Also, what Fat Nick said. I remember that one too, and I would not nominate it as anything comparable to what we're talking about here.)

 

[Fat Nick]

Any over under for when they have it rebuilt? 1 yr? How do they resume boat traffic while doing the construction?

Anyone think season 2 of the wire was underrated?

WAG - 1.5 years at an absolute minimum.

I guess that's not an O/U... For that, say 2.5 years.

This would be a good time for somebody in a position of authority to step up and prove us wrong. I've said many times before that the US in 2024 would be incapable of building the interstate highway system from scratch, and we've all seen how assorted public works projects involving high-speed rail have gone. It's not like the technology here is complicated or anything -- we've just chosen as a society to make this sort of thing impossible.

somebody help me out as i'm light on the specifics ... didn't the US just rebuild a collapsed bridge in more like a few weeks vs 1+ years?

Are you referring to the section of I-95 in Philly where there was that truck fire that collapsed part of the road? If so, that's not a fair analogy as they basically just filled that underpass in and paved over it for now to get traffic going again. Basically made a bridge not-a-bridge and moved the issue to the smaller road that went under I-95.

 

[Nick Vermeil]

Any over under for when they have it rebuilt? 1 yr? How do they resume boat traffic while doing the construction?

Anyone think season 2 of the wire was underrated?

WAG - 1.5 years at an absolute minimum.

I guess that's not an O/U... For that, say 2.5 years.

This would be a good time for somebody in a position of authority to step up and prove us wrong. I've said many times before that the US in 2024 would be incapable of building the interstate highway system from scratch, and we've all seen how assorted public works projects involving high-speed rail have gone. It's not like the technology here is complicated or anything -- we've just chosen as a society to make this sort of thing impossible.

somebody help me out as i'm light on the specifics ... didn't the US just rebuild a collapsed bridge in more like a few weeks vs 1+ years?

I think that was an overpass.

 

[belljr]

Any over under for when they have it rebuilt? 1 yr? How do they resume boat traffic while doing the construction?

Anyone think season 2 of the wire was underrated?

WAG - 1.5 years at an absolute minimum.

I guess that's not an O/U... For that, say 2.5 years.

This would be a good time for somebody in a position of authority to step up and prove us wrong. I've said many times before that the US in 2024 would be incapable of building the interstate highway system from scratch, and we've all seen how assorted public works projects involving high-speed rail have gone. It's not like the technology here is complicated or anything -- we've just chosen as a society to make this sort of thing impossible.

somebody help me out as i'm light on the specifics ... didn't the US just rebuild a collapsed bridge in more like a few weeks vs 1+ years?

Are you referring to the section of I-95 in Philly where there was that truck fire that collapsed part of the road? If so, that's not a fair analogy as they basically just filled that underpass in and paved over it for now to get traffic going again. Basically made a bridge not-a-bridge and moved the issue to the smaller road that went under I-95.

Correct. The filled in the exit underpass. And created a temporary 4 lane road in about 12 days working around the clock. They then started to rebuild the outside lane overpass sections
That was completed in about 6 months. The inner lanes and exit are expected to be completed by May. So about 11 months total.

That is minor compared to this

Eta.... It's 8 lanes in that area

 

[FBG Moderator]

Merged the 2 threads.

 

[culdeus]

So is the boat gonna sink there? Nobody seems super concerned about this.

 

[3C's]

So is the boat gonna sink there? Nobody seems super concerned about this.

To me it looked like the bow was compromised and possibly taking on water. Fairly good lean toward the bow.

First they have to figure out how to get the section of steel bridge off and then offload the containers, though I imagine if it can float long enough to get back to the pier they'll offload there.

 

[Desert_Power]

Guy on my Patapsco River Fishing group swears he sees the starboard side anchor drop and that's what makes the boat jerk to the right (our left facing the boat) before impact. Not sure I see what he sees...It would also take an absurd amount of time for that anchor to deploy, hit bottom, and bite enough to actually alter the path of the ship.

I've seen similar speculation. Basically the timeline goes:

1. Full power goes out
2. They get the generators on and immediately try to drop anchor to avoid hitting the bridge
3. The anchor catching actually swings the ship into the pylon

 

[Andy Dufresne]

So is the boat gonna sink there? Nobody seems super concerned about this.

Very doubtful. I saw Titanic so I'm an expert.

No really, these ships are separated into actual watertight compartments. So if it lost buoyancy in just the forward one (an educated guess) then it's unlikely to sink.

 

[belljr]

So is the boat gonna sink there? Nobody seems super concerned about this.

To me it looked like the bow was compromised and possibly taking on water. Fairly good lean toward the bow.

First they have to figure out how to get the section of steel bridge off and then offload the containers, though I imagine if it can float long enough to get back to the pier they'll offload there.

Yeah. I'm guessing they will bring a barge crane in. Move the steel. Tug the ship back to port and unload maybe repair ship.

I still think they're in search and rescue mode though

 

[3C's]

So is the boat gonna sink there? Nobody seems super concerned about this.

To me it looked like the bow was compromised and possibly taking on water. Fairly good lean toward the bow.

First they have to figure out how to get the section of steel bridge off and then offload the containers, though I imagine if it can float long enough to get back to the pier they'll offload there.

Yeah. I'm guessing they will bring a barge crane in. Move the steel. Tug the ship back to port and unload maybe repair ship.

I still think they're in search and rescue mode though

CG ended the S&R due to time already passed in the cold water. They don't expect to find anyone alive at this point. Transitioning to a "different" phase, which I would assume is recovery.

Someone on the live feed chat claimed they already saw a crane barge in the area. I don't see it but I suppose it could be the case.

 

[Ghost Rider]

When I lived in St. Louis area, I had to cross the I-70 bridge from St. Charles county into St. Louis county every day to and from work.

I always wondered what would happen to the city if that bridge got taken out somehow. Those major arteries of traffic are fairly critical in the short term and can cause major problem if taken out.

For those of you that know St. Louis, the Page Extension was put in a few years after I moved, which would alleviate some of the issue a missing I-70 bridge would cause, but I've never been through there during rush hour and I imagine the capacity is already being maxed out.

Yeah, the Page extension can get pretty wild and crazy around rush hour (a buddy of mine lives out in St. Peter's, and if I go there after work, I always take the Page extension on the way; I take I-70 to 270 for the drive home later in the evening), but the good part is that it is five lanes wide, and it is plenty of straight open road, so even with a lot of cars, you are still flying.

Looks like a number of big brain gigachads are driving or running towards the ruined bridge to do their own research.

And everybody's suddenly an expert civil engineer.

"The bridge collapsed too fast. It must've had other structural issues"

"They shouldn't build bridges like that. They could collapse at any time"

I would seriously caution folks to not jump to conclusions.
The last thing on my mind is this was done on purpose by either an individual or group

-Maybe the captain fell asleep at 1:30 in the morning, we don't really know and it's going to take weeks before investigators can gather all the information and form a conclusion
I made that up but it's more plausible than some of the conspiracies that will likely circulate

With all due respect, after some of your disgusting posts following the shootings at the KC parade, you are the LAST person here who should be lecturing the community on how to behave/post following a tragedy like this.

 

[Jaysus]

So is the boat gonna sink there? Nobody seems super concerned about this.

To me it looked like the bow was compromised and possibly taking on water. Fairly good lean toward the bow.

First they have to figure out how to get the section of steel bridge off and then offload the containers, though I imagine if it can float long enough to get back to the pier they'll offload there.

Close-up photos of the damage to the ship here: https://www.reddit.com/gallery/1bo9cf0

 

[Chemical X]

is this at all similar to that big bayou bridge accident? i remember watching an engineering show or something and seeing a barge hit the span of a bridge that caused an amtrak to derail. i don’t think the bridge collapsed, but these things must have massive force.

 

[The Z Machine]

I have a civil engineer neighbor here in Baltimore that does bridge and road design. I'll get his input on how long it will take to rebuild the Key Bridge and if they would already have a design worked up for it.

 

[The Z Machine]

is this at all similar to that big bayou bridge accident? i remember watching an engineering show or something and seeing a barge hit the span of a bridge that caused an amtrak to derail. i don’t think the bridge collapsed, but these things must have massive force.

The amount of kinetic energy that a ship that massive traveling at 10 MPH has... anything that it hits will take massive damage.

 

[Kev4029]

Any over under for when they have it rebuilt? 1 yr? How do they resume boat traffic while doing the construction?

Anyone think season 2 of the wire was underrated?

WAG - 1.5 years at an absolute minimum.

I guess that's not an O/U... For that, say 2.5 years.

This would be a good time for somebody in a position of authority to step up and prove us wrong. I've said many times before that the US in 2024 would be incapable of building the interstate highway system from scratch, and we've all seen how assorted public works projects involving high-speed rail have gone. It's not like the technology here is complicated or anything -- we've just chosen as a society to make this sort of thing impossible.

somebody help me out as i'm light on the specifics ... didn't the US just rebuild a collapsed bridge in more like a few weeks vs 1+ years?

Are you referring to the section of I-95 in Philly where there was that truck fire that collapsed part of the road? If so, that's not a fair analogy as they basically just filled that underpass in and paved over it for now to get traffic going again. Basically made a bridge not-a-bridge and moved the issue to the smaller road that went under I-95.

Correct. The filled in the exit underpass. And created a temporary 4 lane road in about 12 days working around the clock. They then started to rebuild the outside lane overpass sections
That was completed in about 6 months. The inner lanes and exit are expected to be completed by May. So about 11 months total.

That is minor compared to this

Eta.... It's 8 lanes in that area

Plus probably 1.5+ years of engineering and planning ahead of that.

I think designing and reconstructing this bridge in one year would be an engineering feat nearly on the level of us putting a person on the Moon in 1969.

 

[Jayrod]

Any over under for when they have it rebuilt? 1 yr? How do they resume boat traffic while doing the construction?

Anyone think season 2 of the wire was underrated?

WAG - 1.5 years at an absolute minimum.

I guess that's not an O/U... For that, say 2.5 years.

This would be a good time for somebody in a position of authority to step up and prove us wrong. I've said many times before that the US in 2024 would be incapable of building the interstate highway system from scratch, and we've all seen how assorted public works projects involving high-speed rail have gone. It's not like the technology here is complicated or anything -- we've just chosen as a society to make this sort of thing impossible.

somebody help me out as i'm light on the specifics ... didn't the US just rebuild a collapsed bridge in more like a few weeks vs 1+ years?

Are you referring to the section of I-95 in Philly where there was that truck fire that collapsed part of the road? If so, that's not a fair analogy as they basically just filled that underpass in and paved over it for now to get traffic going again. Basically made a bridge not-a-bridge and moved the issue to the smaller road that went under I-95.

Correct. The filled in the exit underpass. And created a temporary 4 lane road in about 12 days working around the clock. They then started to rebuild the outside lane overpass sections
That was completed in about 6 months. The inner lanes and exit are expected to be completed by May. So about 11 months total.

That is minor compared to this

Eta.... It's 8 lanes in that area

Plus probably 1.5+ years of engineering and planning ahead of that.

I think designing and reconstructing this bridge in one year would be an engineering feat nearly on the level of us putting a person on the Moon in 1969.

If the same jagoffs that are in charge of MODOT get involved, we are looking at 2050 as a realistic completion date.

 

[mr. furley]

Any over under for when they have it rebuilt? 1 yr? How do they resume boat traffic while doing the construction?

Anyone think season 2 of the wire was underrated?

WAG - 1.5 years at an absolute minimum.

I guess that's not an O/U... For that, say 2.5 years.

This would be a good time for somebody in a position of authority to step up and prove us wrong. I've said many times before that the US in 2024 would be incapable of building the interstate highway system from scratch, and we've all seen how assorted public works projects involving high-speed rail have gone. It's not like the technology here is complicated or anything -- we've just chosen as a society to make this sort of thing impossible.

somebody help me out as i'm light on the specifics ... didn't the US just rebuild a collapsed bridge in more like a few weeks vs 1+ years?

Are you referring to the section of I-95 in Philly where there was that truck fire that collapsed part of the road? If so, that's not a fair analogy as they basically just filled that underpass in and paved over it for now to get traffic going again. Basically made a bridge not-a-bridge and moved the issue to the smaller road that went under I-95.

that's the one

 

[culdeus]

Any over under for when they have it rebuilt? 1 yr? How do they resume boat traffic while doing the construction?

Anyone think season 2 of the wire was underrated?

WAG - 1.5 years at an absolute minimum.

I guess that's not an O/U... For that, say 2.5 years.

This would be a good time for somebody in a position of authority to step up and prove us wrong. I've said many times before that the US in 2024 would be incapable of building the interstate highway system from scratch, and we've all seen how assorted public works projects involving high-speed rail have gone. It's not like the technology here is complicated or anything -- we've just chosen as a society to make this sort of thing impossible.

somebody help me out as i'm light on the specifics ... didn't the US just rebuild a collapsed bridge in more like a few weeks vs 1+ years?

Are you referring to the section of I-95 in Philly where there was that truck fire that collapsed part of the road? If so, that's not a fair analogy as they basically just filled that underpass in and paved over it for now to get traffic going again. Basically made a bridge not-a-bridge and moved the issue to the smaller road that went under I-95.

Correct. The filled in the exit underpass. And created a temporary 4 lane road in about 12 days working around the clock. They then started to rebuild the outside lane overpass sections
That was completed in about 6 months. The inner lanes and exit are expected to be completed by May. So about 11 months total.

That is minor compared to this

Eta.... It's 8 lanes in that area

Plus probably 1.5+ years of engineering and planning ahead of that.

I think designing and reconstructing this bridge in one year would be an engineering feat nearly on the level of us putting a person on the Moon in 1969.

I really doubt this. I mean I am not a civil engineer, but I've watched a few youtubes on this subject so I feel qualified now. I also drive over bridges.

Computers can do some crazy stuff to simulate everything now. AI gonna have this thing designed by lunch tomorrow.

 

[culdeus]

Can we make it a drawbridge this time, because they are cool.

 

[3C's]

Can we make it a drawbridge this time, because they are cool.

Cool until you get stuck with an opening.

 

[belljr]

Any over under for when they have it rebuilt? 1 yr? How do they resume boat traffic while doing the construction?

Anyone think season 2 of the wire was underrated?

WAG - 1.5 years at an absolute minimum.

I guess that's not an O/U... For that, say 2.5 years.

This would be a good time for somebody in a position of authority to step up and prove us wrong. I've said many times before that the US in 2024 would be incapable of building the interstate highway system from scratch, and we've all seen how assorted public works projects involving high-speed rail have gone. It's not like the technology here is complicated or anything -- we've just chosen as a society to make this sort of thing impossible.

somebody help me out as i'm light on the specifics ... didn't the US just rebuild a collapsed bridge in more like a few weeks vs 1+ years?

Are you referring to the section of I-95 in Philly where there was that truck fire that collapsed part of the road? If so, that's not a fair analogy as they basically just filled that underpass in and paved over it for now to get traffic going again. Basically made a bridge not-a-bridge and moved the issue to the smaller road that went under I-95.

Correct. The filled in the exit underpass. And created a temporary 4 lane road in about 12 days working around the clock. They then started to rebuild the outside lane overpass sections
That was completed in about 6 months. The inner lanes and exit are expected to be completed by May. So about 11 months total.

That is minor compared to this

Eta.... It's 8 lanes in that area

Plus probably 1.5+ years of engineering and planning ahead of that.

I think designing and reconstructing this bridge in one year would be an engineering feat nearly on the level of us putting a person on the Moon in 1969.

I really doubt this. I mean I am not a civil engineer, but I've watched a few youtubes on this subject so I feel qualified now. I also drive over bridges.

Computers can do some crazy stuff to simulate everything now. AI gonna have this thing designed by lunch tomorrow.

Worst case they use the same plans as the OG

 

[Peggy]

The biggest thing the feds could do, instead of just saying they are going to pay for it, is to jump in and take it over as a federal US Army Core of Engineers job. Then cut red tape to any laws, permits, approvals and award a T&M contract to a capable design-bulider now. A basis of design could be done in a couple months. The design-builder, depending on material availability etc. could get a design done in 6 to 8 months with construction starting within 6 months. Construction taking 2 to 3 years best case scenario.

Having dealt with DOTs and USACE as clients my entire career they won't be able to react that fast and best case scenario is 5 years from now.

 

[the moops]

The 35W bridge in Minneapolis was rebuilt and up and running in 14 months. No idea the engineering and logistical differences, just a point of reference

 

[GroveDiesel]

Any over under for when they have it rebuilt? 1 yr? How do they resume boat traffic while doing the construction?

Anyone think season 2 of the wire was underrated?

WAG - 1.5 years at an absolute minimum.

I guess that's not an O/U... For that, say 2.5 years.

This would be a good time for somebody in a position of authority to step up and prove us wrong. I've said many times before that the US in 2024 would be incapable of building the interstate highway system from scratch, and we've all seen how assorted public works projects involving high-speed rail have gone. It's not like the technology here is complicated or anything -- we've just chosen as a society to make this sort of thing impossible.

somebody help me out as i'm light on the specifics ... didn't the US just rebuild a collapsed bridge in more like a few weeks vs 1+ years?

Are you referring to the section of I-95 in Philly where there was that truck fire that collapsed part of the road? If so, that's not a fair analogy as they basically just filled that underpass in and paved over it for now to get traffic going again. Basically made a bridge not-a-bridge and moved the issue to the smaller road that went under I-95.

Correct. The filled in the exit underpass. And created a temporary 4 lane road in about 12 days working around the clock. They then started to rebuild the outside lane overpass sections
That was completed in about 6 months. The inner lanes and exit are expected to be completed by May. So about 11 months total.

That is minor compared to this

Eta.... It's 8 lanes in that area

Plus probably 1.5+ years of engineering and planning ahead of that.

I think designing and reconstructing this bridge in one year would be an engineering feat nearly on the level of us putting a person on the Moon in 1969.

I don’t think it’s the engineering that typically holds this stuff up, it’s the bureaucratic mess that drags this stuff out.

While a totally different scale, the one thing learned from the Philly bridge overpass rebuild, is that things can happen REALLY fast when the magic government hand is waved to eliminate bureaucracy in approvals and execution.

If the pockets are opened and the government is motivated to step aside and not hold things up, I’d bet the whole thing could get done in under 2 years. Maybe less. As is, we’re probably looking at a decade.

 

[PIK95]

I was thinking about this today. That bridge is so iconic.

The biggest thing the feds could do, instead of just saying they are going to pay for it, is to jump in and take it over as a federal US Army Core of Engineers job. Then cut red tape to any laws, permits, approvals and award a T&M contract to a capable design-bulider now. A basis of design could be done in a couple months. The design-builder, depending on material availability etc. could get a design done in 6 to 8 months with construction starting within 6 months. Construction taking 2 to 3 years best case scenario.

Having dealt with DOTs and USACE as clients my entire career they won't be able to react that fast and best case scenario is 5 years from now.

I wish they would do that in RI. I keep hearing three years on our bridge. Crazy. It used to be five lanes on each side. HUGE bridge.

 

[PIK95]

Not sure if it was mentioned, but that bridge is ICONIC. Ebb Tide...

"A few months after his reassignment to the Baltimore Police's marine unit, Jimmy McNulty discovers a female corpse with broken legs floating in the harbor. He visits Homicide and checks in with Sergeant Jay Landsman, finding out that Colonel William Rawls passed the case off to Baltimore County because the body was found east of the Francis Scott Key Bridge. McNulty studies tide charts as he attempts to prove where the body was dumped into the water; he types up a report and faxes it to the county homicide unit. Rawls and Landsman immediately realize McNulty's involvement when the case is passed back to them, his report proving the body actually went into the water west of the bridge and thus in the city homicide unit's territory." McNulty gets his revenge.

 

[CGRdrJoe]

Feds aren't doing **** with the bridge until the Coast Guard is done getting the waterway back open. I haven't heard any grumblings that she's taking on water and there didn't look to much pollution in the water so once they get in some heavy lift cranes and get the bridge off the boat they'll move her to port and off load. Then they have to inspect the waterway to make sure there are no parts of the bridge/containers fell into the channel and that the route is once again safe to move through ships. My gut feeling is that this is all done in under 2 weeks and the port is back up and running.

 

[Scoresman]

Stupid question. Why can’t they just reconstruct the same bridge? Don’t even have a design phase except for maybe some modernification? This wasn’t a structural issue in that it needs to be redsigned, right?

 

[Rustoleum]

Stupid question. Why can’t they just reconstruct the same bridge? Don’t even have a design phase except for maybe some modernification? This wasn’t a structural issue in that it needs to be redsigned, right?

I would think that having proven it is possible to completely block the port and drop the whole bridge with one ship demands a re-think. Do we really need a bridge there? Is a tunnel better? Can one be built that is better designed for container traffic to pass through?

Was the old bridge adequate for today’s vehicle traffic even?

 

[Snoopy]

Stupid question. Why can’t they just reconstruct the same bridge? Don’t even have a design phase except for maybe some modernification? This wasn’t a structural issue in that it needs to be redsigned, right?

I would think that having proven it is possible to completely block the port and drop the whole bridge with one ship demands a re-think. Do we really need a bridge there? Is a tunnel better? Can one be built that is better designed for container traffic to pass through?

Was the old bridge adequate for today’s vehicle traffic even?

Traffic counts were not that high. A factor was that bridge could allow hazmat vehicles where other routes in the area didn't allow them. If a tunnel was built, hazmat vehicles couldn't use that route either.

 

[Peggy]

Stupid question. Why can’t they just reconstruct the same bridge? Don’t even have a design phase except for maybe some modernification? This wasn’t a structural issue in that it needs to be redsigned, right?

There are faster and better bridge types than a steel truss for spans of that length now days. I guarantee there will be a fight for returning the original or a making it more iconic like a giant cable stay, but, if you want speed a cast in place (precast if you want more lanes) segmental bridge is the fastest for long spans. You could adapt existing designs very fast.

The reason this is going to take multiple years to construct is because of the in water work. If you were just retrofitting the existing peirs sticking out of the water that's one thing, but,one pier is completely destroyed. You might as well replace both peirs of the main span too because that's just two headings that can be done at the same time and that makes your entire main span brand new. You could always upgrade the approaches later and even keep half the bridge open at a time when doing that.

1- Blow up and demo the two existing main piers.
2 - install cofferdams to build new footings and columns. (In water work, would take a full year)
3- cast in place segmental, 4 headings, two from each pier. 2 towards the approaches, 2 others to meet in the middle.

I'm on a job that's building a cast in place segmental right now that is fast tracked and going to take about two years. Similar size. But it's not in the water

 

[The Z Machine]

Do we really need a bridge there? Is a tunnel better?

There are already 2 tunnels for crossings closer to Baltimore City, I95 and I895. The bridge was used for hazmat transport and connected to the other side of the ports from where the tunnels are. A bridge is needed to complete the beltway ring highway that encircles Baltimore (I695).

 

[massraider]

Experts discuss Baltimore bridge collapse investigation, early findings

Several experts joined CBS News early Tuesday to discuss new details of the Francis Scott Key Bridge collapse in Baltimore. The bridge collapsed after a colu...

www.youtube.com

CBS News.

Feds aren't doing **** with the bridge until the Coast Guard is done getting the waterway back open. I haven't heard any grumblings that she's taking on water and there didn't look to much pollution in the water so once they get in some heavy lift cranes and get the bridge off the boat they'll move her to port and off load. Then they have to inspect the waterway to make sure there are no parts of the bridge/containers fell into the channel and that the route is once again safe to move through ships. My gut feeling is that this is all done in under 2 weeks and the port is back up and running.

Way too many companies and unions making money for this waterway to be shut down.

I fully expect we will see swift decisive action by everyone involved

 

[The Z Machine]

Good info, @Peggy .

My hunch is that they opt for speed here to help with port traffic. While the bridge has an intersting truss design, it's not really iconic like some other bridges are. To be fair, I've only lived in Baltimore for 15 years and I'm not a native.

 

[CGRdrJoe]

Experts discuss Baltimore bridge collapse investigation, early findings

Several experts joined CBS News early Tuesday to discuss new details of the Francis Scott Key Bridge collapse in Baltimore. The bridge collapsed after a colu...

www.youtube.com

CBS News.

Feds aren't doing **** with the bridge until the Coast Guard is done getting the waterway back open. I haven't heard any grumblings that she's taking on water and there didn't look to much pollution in the water so once they get in some heavy lift cranes and get the bridge off the boat they'll move her to port and off load. Then they have to inspect the waterway to make sure there are no parts of the bridge/containers fell into the channel and that the route is once again safe to move through ships. My gut feeling is that this is all done in under 2 weeks and the port is back up and running.

Way too many companies and unions making money for this waterway to be shut down.

I fully expect we will see swift decisive action by everyone involved

I mean there is already a plan for this, not necessarily the entire bridge coming down but we have National contingency plans and regional contingency plans with companies already selected for salvage of it comes down to it

 

[culdeus]

Shot and a beer anyone?

 

[steelerfan1]

This is one of my nightmares come to life. I am frightened of bridges. Horrible.

This. IIRC there was a made for TV movie where a bridge mostly collapsed and there were people stranded on a small section of bridge that hadn't yet collapsed.

Bridge collapse and sinkholes are my two irrational fears.

ETA - The Night The Bridge Fell Down (1980)

Don’t want to clog this thread, so I apologize, but as a kid I remember going for a drive with my dad in his 70s corvette to the Cape. Coming home we got caught in a huge storm and when we got to the Bourne bridge I believe, the state police had it blocked and they were letting 1 car over at a time. The bridge was physically swinging back and forth. I still don’t know how I didn’t poop my pants going over that thing.

 

[steelerfan1]

This is one of my nightmares come to life. I am frightened of bridges. Horrible.

We have a bad bridge situation here in Rhode Island. They just shut it down out of the blue a couple of months back. It was in danger of collapse. Its a super busy highway bridge, that is also the main route from Providence to Cape Cod. It's route 195 just off 95. Pete B has been here a couple of times and it looks like a three year complete rebuild. Anyway, they routed all traffic to the five lane half of the bridge that goes east, and it's been horrific traffic. The possibility of the bridge collapsing under all this constant five lane weight scares the crap out of me. I pass over it four times a week. Tonight I will probably go the extra thirty minute north route to stay off it. Horrible situation for those people in Baltimore.

I’ve probably been over this myself. I remember going over the Braga all the time and hating that sucker too.

 

[3C's]

This is one of my nightmares come to life. I am frightened of bridges. Horrible.

This. IIRC there was a made for TV movie where a bridge mostly collapsed and there were people stranded on a small section of bridge that hadn't yet collapsed.

Bridge collapse and sinkholes are my two irrational fears.

ETA - The Night The Bridge Fell Down (1980)

Don’t want to clog this thread, so I apologize, but as a kid I remember going for a drive with my dad in his 70s corvette to the Cape. Coming home we got caught in a huge storm and when we got to the Bourne bridge I believe, the state police had it blocked and they were letting 1 car over at a time. The bridge was physically swinging back and forth. I still don’t know how I didn’t poop my pants going over that thing.

The Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel https://www.cbbt.com/ gets shut down completely due to winds of 60+. There's been a number of times when trucks have gone into the water with wind as a factor.

 

[Charlie Steiner]

Good info, @Peggy .

My hunch is that they opt for speed here to help with port traffic. While the bridge has an intersting truss design, it's not really iconic like some other bridges are. To be fair, I've only lived in Baltimore for 15 years and I'm not a native.

IMHO, that's a very blue collar area and given the affect on the shipping industry, I believe they'll go for function and efficiency/speed when it comes to putting up a new bridge.

FWIW, that bridge gave me the willies; every time I went from one section to another, I felt like I was driving on a trampoline. Here's hoping the next one feels more sturdy to drive on.

FWIW II, while I spent the first 37 years of my life on the outskirts of DC, I never felt any connection to that city like I have towards Baltimore in these last 20+.

 

[3C's]

FWIW, that bridge gave me the willies; every time I went from one section to another, I felt like I was driving on a trampoline.

When I used to have to drive in/around Norfolk/VA Beach I'd get stuck in bumper to bumper bridge-tunnel traffic (every day) and when heavy trucks go by you can feel the bridge bouncing. Fun indeed.

 

[Slumpbusters]

I'm a civil engineer and also Exec VP of a steel fabricator that builds bridges. The bridge business as a whole is very busy right now, and there aren't many bridge fabricators in the country. Bridges like this take months and sometimes years to build. Its not a fast process.

We are involved in building a bridge about 2 miles from that collapse and our material was to be delivered by a barge that would pass under the Francis Scott. Obviously that job is delayed now.

I looked it up - the bridge was opened in 1977. That means that it is about a 60/40 chance they have reliable information for the design and fabrication drawings of that particular bridge.

IF they have reliable info, they could essentially "refabricate" and install the exact same bridge. This is unlikely as they will probably take the opportunity to modernize it for today's demand and traffic flow in the area. This will need to be balanced out with the urgent need for public use, so its somewhat hard to say what they will do. I suppose it depends on if they can develop acceptable alternate traffic patterns.

Regardless, this bridge is a doozy to say the least. I would wager it will be a hot minute before anything is in place and opened up again.

 

[Charlie Steiner]

FWIW, that bridge gave me the willies; every time I went from one section to another, I felt like I was driving on a trampoline.

When I used to have to drive in/around Norfolk/VA Beach I'd get stuck in bumper to bumper bridge-tunnel traffic (every day) and when heavy trucks go by you can feel the bridge bouncing. Fun indeed.

Never had to cross that one, but when I was a kid and the 2nd span of the Chesapeake Bay Bridge hadn't yet been built, there was one time that we were hauling a travel trailer to the beach and a convoy of 18-wheelers were coming the other way. Every time one passed us, it felt like we were going to be blown over the side.

 

[massraider]

This is unlikely as they will probably take the opportunity to modernize it for today's demand and traffic flow in the area.

Just because it's interesting:

What's the sort of improvements/modernizations that might take place?

 

[3C's]

FWIW, that bridge gave me the willies; every time I went from one section to another, I felt like I was driving on a trampoline.

When I used to have to drive in/around Norfolk/VA Beach I'd get stuck in bumper to bumper bridge-tunnel traffic (every day) and when heavy trucks go by you can feel the bridge bouncing. Fun indeed.

Never had to cross that one, but when I was a kid and the 2nd span of the Chesapeake Bay Bridge hadn't yet been built, there was one time that we were hauling a travel trailer to the beach and a convoy of 18-wheelers were coming the other way. Every time one passed us, it felt like we were going to be blown over the side.

No doubt. I had an account on the Eastern Shore that I had to go to regularly. 17+ miles of that was never fun. Traffic, especially tractor trailers, coming at you, getting stuck behind slow moving vehicles, passing areas where you played with death. Was great when the 2nd 2 lane span opened but by then I never went across regularly.

 

[Charlie Steiner]

This is unlikely as they will probably take the opportunity to modernize it for today's demand and traffic flow in the area.

Just because it's interesting:

What's the sort of improvements/modernizations that might take place?

Making it less bouncy to drive on would be a good start.