_4_
Footballguy
Lone vote For Favre came from the SportsXchangeI love Frank Cooney. He is the only one who got the MVP vote right!
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Frank Cooney Alters History (1 Viewer)
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Big_Russ
Footballguy
Come'on now! That works both ways player. Moss doesn’t have his year without Tom Brady. This was Brady's season. You haters need to step back and just let the man have his day in the sun. He's been doing big things now for the better part of a decade. He lead three teams to SB wins (recording a ridiculous 21 game winning streak in the middle of two of those runs), and he never really had any top shelf talent at WR to throw the ball to! The dude FINALLY gets some WR1 quality targets around him, and he goes on to break the single season TD record in his FIRST SEASON with them!! He has still only played 16 games with Moss/Welker/Stallworth... people forget that. Imagine if he had a couple of years under his belt with these guys?? He might have thrown 60TDs! Like I said above, I’m not a Patriots fan... but seriously. Some of you all need to stop hating on the man and give credit where it's do. Brady is the best QB in the game today, and it isn’t even close (IMO). It would have been a damn CRIME to deny this man the MVP this season.
_4_
Footballguy
Brees wasn't/isn't even in the discussion. You could make a case for Romo, but it wouldn't be very good - the supporting cast was much stronger. Most Valuable Player trancends numbers.
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
If the Packers have a team MVP award, Brett should win that. Tom Brady is a lot more valuable in the NFL than Favre. Ask any coach which QB they'd rather have for a game this weekend, and all of them but the one in Green Bay says Brady. Brady won all of his games and set the passing TD record. Favre had a good year, especially considering his declining seasons recently. The former far outshines the latter.
I'm not even sure he's the MVP of his conference. If AP had been healthy all year, he probably wouldn't have been the MVP of his division. And if Grant had been the starter all year, the team might have had co-MVPs.
If it's Green Bay vs New England in the Super Bowl, I'll be rooting for Favre to topple the giant. But MVP? Not even close.
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
I think it's close, because Manning is really good. If you put him in New England, I don't think they'd be drastically worse. Maybe a little, but it's at least close imo.
Baby New Year
Footballguy
Yeah, because Rodgers looked so bad against the Cowboys while Favre was crapping the bed.Also, I don't think Favre plays D.
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encaitar
Footballguy
Wait
Is a Patriot's fan trying to argue that the success of a team relies on more than just their QB? So does that mean we can officially bring up the NE defense being the reason for the 3 rings argument again?
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THEBUTCHER
Footballguy
Frank Cooney is a moron. Brady should have won this unanimously but there's always a big dumb artard in every room.... sometimes more.
nxmehta
Footballguy
Why people want to base an MVP on imaginary scenarios instead of performance, I'll never understand.
Franknbeans
Footballguy
that and their video staffWaitIs a Patriot's fan trying to argue that the success of a team relies on more than just their QB? So does that mean we can officially bring up the NE defense being the reason for the 3 rings argument again?
twitch
Footballguy
Well then good for him and his TEAM. Give him the Packers MVP. Clearly, he's that team's best player and their MVP. He wasnt the best player or the most valuable in the LEAGUE, guy. What'd he do in Dallas? Remember Dallas? What happened there? Does that horrible performance not count? What's your MVP doing looking like a deer in the headlights SCRUB in a place where he's never won in arguably the team's BIGGEST game of the season? What happened there? I'll tell you. He was a SCRUB in that game! The weather was fine. They had a running game. Was he the league's MVP that day? Hell he got outplayed by the QB who actually should have gotten that other vote. Romo deserved that one vote Favre got if anything. Favre's team was 8-8 last year. Romo's was 9-7. A whopping ONE GAME DIFFERENCE. Yet Dallas has all this talent and Green Bay is a collection of junk without Favre? How's that work? Aaron Rodgers came in that Dallas game and moved the team once the guy who's never won in Dallas left the game. They nearly won that game with the backup QB! How's that happening? And what happened with Favre against the Bears? What's with the Bears owning you? the Bears? geting owned by the chief rival? is that what an MVP does? I absolutely HATE hypothetical scenarios. Hate 'em! They solve nothing. But someone posed this hypothetical scenario yesterday. Put Favre on New England with all that talent instead of Brady. And dont put Brady in Green Bay. Put Brady out of the league washing cars or something in this scenario. We're not discussing him. But put Favre in New England. Do you honestly for a second think that guy's leading them to 16 straight wins with no losses? 16-0? Is he getting that done? Undefeated? Sixteen straight wins??! Knowing what you know about him? How he lays an egg every once in a while, and like the Dallas game, absolultely crushes his team's chances of winning on occasion by playing OUTSIDE of himself? Get real. This one guy needs to have his vote stripped. Favre was the 4th most valuable player in the NFL this year, if that. Give the nod to Brady, Moss, Romo and then start making a case for you beloved #4. Take off the homer glasses in this particular case. They are completely blinding you!
pizzatyme
Footballguy
dude, there is no hate. I give Brady his due all the time. The fact is Brady has never come close to this season's numbers without Moss. Moss has excelled before without Brady. Moss is the difference this year.
twitch
Footballguy
Anything to make your boy Manning and his 7 INTS in the playoffs last year smell so much more like a rose, huh? Isnt that what this is basically about for you here in this discussion, PT. Give it up, man. The stats are mind boggling, and OBVIOUSLY Moss has alot to do with it. OBVIOUSLY. Everyone knows he was a factor. But do this for me. Tell me what David Givens, Deion Branch, Daniel Graham, David Patten, and Reche Caldwell did to help their teams win games this year. Those are the fellas Brady has been winning titles with. And right now, those guys arent winning much. Dont cry because the guy FINALLY gets a couple of nice receivers and starts putting up #s. Because we understand, that's been your boy's department. Brady's been more about the rings. That's the case my group of homers make. So, you wanna take Pro Bowlers away from Brady? Then do it to your guy, Mr. Clutch. Where do you begin with that collection? Keep it clean, man. Keep it clean!
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duece2626
Footballguy
Moss had one of the best years for a WR back in '98 with freakin Culpepper at QB. Brady's highest TD total in a season was 28 before Moss arrived. Coincedence? I think not. Don't get me wrong, Brady is a hell of a QB, but Moss is the reason why Brady had the 50 TD passes.
pizzatyme
Footballguy
How in the hell do you read what you just posted from my posts in this thread?Let me clarify, please take your rose colored glasses off to read this...
Brady is a fantastic QB. In fact, one of the best EVER IMO. He has done great things from a team perspective over his career. This year he accomplished tremendous personal goals as well.
This year's performance, IMO was aided by his surrounding talent.
IMO, Moss is the difference in his performance. Moss is the difference between a 14-2 season and 16-0 this year.
I'm not arguing that Manning has had great offensive talent around him.
I'm not sure if I can make that any clearer for you. If you need more clarification, please ask one of your Pats brethren who is less jaded by their hatred of Manning and the Colts.
Have a great day.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
To be honest, I thought Favre would get more than 1 vote. I think Brady is the clear MVP, but I figured Favre getting 3-4 votes and maybe Moss getting one. I'm not sure I understand the outrage.
trader jake
Footballguy
Agreed. I thought the Randy Moss factor would keep Brady from getting all 50 1st place votes.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
I just don't get why it's such a crime it wasn't unanimous. I mean, does the citation in the record books come with an asterisk now?
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pizzatyme
Footballguy
nope, but if you suggest anything other than Brady should have swept the vote, then people want to criticize your personal team affiliation apparently.
pizzatyme
Footballguy
twitch, here is my post from the other thread. Maybe your reading comprehension is down?
"Pats without Moss = Playoff team but no MVP season for Brady
Moss without the Pats = possibly a great season with Favre and the Packers but doubtful he gets to 23 TDs.
Moss and the Pats = 16-0, records going bye bye, Brady gets MVP
Yes, the Pats would be a playoff team, still most likely a bye team but the #1 seed would be no sure thing without Moss and Brady does NOT get the MVP this year. Moss wouldn't get his 23 TDs on another team this year. That means they needed each other.
Clear enough for you?"
agree 100%
"Pats without Moss = Playoff team but no MVP season for Brady
Moss without the Pats = possibly a great season with Favre and the Packers but doubtful he gets to 23 TDs.
Moss and the Pats = 16-0, records going bye bye, Brady gets MVP
Yes, the Pats would be a playoff team, still most likely a bye team but the #1 seed would be no sure thing without Moss and Brady does NOT get the MVP this year. Moss wouldn't get his 23 TDs on another team this year. That means they needed each other.
Clear enough for you?"
agree 100%
twitch
Footballguy
twitch, here is my post from the other thread. Maybe your reading comprehension is down?
"Pats without Moss = Playoff team but no MVP season for Brady
Moss without the Pats = possibly a great season with Favre and the Packers but doubtful he gets to 23 TDs.
Moss and the Pats = 16-0, records going bye bye, Brady gets MVP
Yes, the Pats would be a playoff team, still most likely a bye team but the #1 seed would be no sure thing without Moss and Brady does NOT get the MVP this year. Moss wouldn't get his 23 TDs on another team this year. That means they needed each other.
Clear enough for you?"
agree 100%
Thanks. I'd looked that up and realized I was wrong. I was a bit off on that comment. I apologize. I also just deleted another horrible take on my part that was unnessecary because this is a conversation you and I dont need to be having first thing Monday morning. So, again, I apologize. It just pisses me off that people dont recognize the RARITY of going unbeaten in the NFL. Any other year, scattered votes to Vick or Brady or Moss or whomever when your guy Manning wins the MVP are understandable. Like the year he threw 49. Tremendous year, obviously. But they lost 4 games. Brady's squad didnt lose any this year, and as much as I appreciate Moss' efforts, he's not the guy leading that team to an undefeated season. He's absolutely a difference maker. But Brady's won 14 games and titles back to back years without any help from Moss. Again, tremendous player, TD machine, double-team drawing Jesse, but he's a regular guy on 20 other teams out there. Brady's no regular guy.Again, sorry for the prior rant. We've got plenty of time for heat hopefully in a couple of weeks.
pizzatyme
Footballguy
Good man. Apology accepted.Let's hope we get to discuss THE matchup in 2 weeks.twitch, here is my post from the other thread. Maybe your reading comprehension is down?
"Pats without Moss = Playoff team but no MVP season for Brady
Moss without the Pats = possibly a great season with Favre and the Packers but doubtful he gets to 23 TDs.
Moss and the Pats = 16-0, records going bye bye, Brady gets MVP
Yes, the Pats would be a playoff team, still most likely a bye team but the #1 seed would be no sure thing without Moss and Brady does NOT get the MVP this year. Moss wouldn't get his 23 TDs on another team this year. That means they needed each other.
Clear enough for you?"
Again, sorry for the prior rant. We've got plenty of time for heat hopefully in a couple of weeks.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
The undefeated part is big, but I think of it as a true team effort. It wasn't like the Pats D or ST were average or poor and Brady had to carry the team on his back. At least in my opinion. He was certainly great this year though.
Workhorse
Footballguy
That's often why they do it in the first place - Gets their name out there.
Pictus Cat
Footballguy
They did it with less argument is why a player may never get all the votes.
How a voter defines MVP could account for a probable difference of opinion.
I think a player that deserves all the votes doesn't care about them.
It matters more that he performs as the MVP to his team than the recognition.
I have a ton of respect for Farve, near GOAT type of respect, but the Dallas, Chicago games...
Moss as the difference maker is valid, but if you have to pick one...
Brady has Moss, his coach, a line that has kept his sack #'s down, a defense, blah, blah, blah,
He used all of these to acheive something special, not by himself, but the offense ran through the QB to coordinate
16 -0.
How a voter defines MVP could account for a probable difference of opinion.
I think a player that deserves all the votes doesn't care about them.
It matters more that he performs as the MVP to his team than the recognition.
I have a ton of respect for Farve, near GOAT type of respect, but the Dallas, Chicago games...
Moss as the difference maker is valid, but if you have to pick one...
Brady has Moss, his coach, a line that has kept his sack #'s down, a defense, blah, blah, blah,
He used all of these to acheive something special, not by himself, but the offense ran through the QB to coordinate
16 -0.
Every QB's #'s depend on the surrounding talent. Would Manning have hit 50 with Caldwell, Gaffney and Bam Childress or Kelvin Kight, instead of Harrison Wayne and Stokley? I bet he doesn't get to 25. No QB has ever hit single season greatness without a supporting cast. Brady has had excellent team success, but never
Compare them all. Warner without Holt Bruce and Faulk? Favre without Chmura, Levens, Brooks, Freeman, Ingram, Freeman? Of course not.
As for how good the QB's are overall. Brady has somehow managed at least 9 wins each season he's been a starter. And, in all but one in the playoffs he's got his team at least to the Conference Championship, all without a receiver even close to the caliber of their starting 3 today. It's not surprising his #'s went up with some talent around him.
To me, there's not even a debate this year. We saw that the Pack actually improved with Rodgers in the game, when Favre went out against Dallas. Favre himself said he came back because this was the most talented team he's been around. So, acting like there's no talent there is ludicrous. If anybody, I felt Romo should have been 2nd, but honestly this season nobody deserves the MVP. more than Brady.
All the speculation in the world doesn't change what really happened. History isn't going to be altered. What was happened. That's all that matters. No matter how one slices hypotheticals, any case could be made. But, in the end they dont' matter, only reality does.twitch, here is my post from the other thread. Maybe your reading comprehension is down?
"Pats without Moss = Playoff team but no MVP season for Brady
Moss without the Pats = possibly a great season with Favre and the Packers but doubtful he gets to 23 TDs.
Moss and the Pats = 16-0, records going bye bye, Brady gets MVP
Yes, the Pats would be a playoff team, still most likely a bye team but the #1 seed would be no sure thing without Moss and Brady does NOT get the MVP this year. Moss wouldn't get his 23 TDs on another team this year. That means they needed each other.
Clear enough for you?"
agree 100%
Maroney=Speed
Footballguy
Moss and it shouldn't have been close.
And Moss has shown that he doesn't have that season without Brady. Somebody had to win. Maybe it was Bradys 3300 yards and 27 TD's to other receivers? Of maybe the games where Moss was shut down and Welker and Gaffney made the plays? Brady was held w/o a TD once this year. That's impressive in itself.
Road Warriors
Footballguy
I have no outrage or issue with the vote. I don't really have a problem with the number of posters here who have stated that that one vote was the right vote. But I do want to try to understand why the posters with that belief do believe that to be true.I fall clearly on the Brady should get the MVP. That would be my vote. I'd list my reasoning, but I think it's been covered pretty well. What I'm looking for is the reasoning behind the folks that say Favre should have won it.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Personally I think the right guy won it, but I think you can make a case that Favre did well with much less support than Brady did. Grant had a good year, but to lead the Packers to the #2 seed in the NFC, which is surprising to many, will garner some votes. I think a lot of times a surprise success gets some people's votes. You see this a lot in the coach of the year votes. It's often a coach who overachieved. And yes I'm aware that Belichick won it this season. So I can see a reasonable vote for Favre although I disagree with it and would have cried foul if Favre had gotten more than 3 or 4 votes.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Slow news day when Brady getting 49 of 50 votes is considered somehow a slight against him.
He was the runaway MVP winner, and that's all anyone will remember in a year or two about the voting. And as others have said, I'm actually surprised Moss didn't get at least one or two votes and that Favre only got the one vote.
He was the runaway MVP winner, and that's all anyone will remember in a year or two about the voting. And as others have said, I'm actually surprised Moss didn't get at least one or two votes and that Favre only got the one vote.
_4_
Footballguy
You are twitching all over the place. Have you heard the expression "Thou doth protest too much"? It may never have greater relevance. You make a fool of yourself arguing your case.A much stronger argument is presented by others here, and much more succinctly I might add, for Randy Moss. Aside from his asylum in Oakland, Moss has made every quarterback he has played with look like a Hall of Famer. So when he is paired with a decent (not great) quarterback in Tom Brady, along with their other weapons, he makes Brady look 'triffic.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Slow news day when Brady getting 49 of 50 votes is considered somehow a slight against him.
twitch
Footballguy
See, there you go making yourself look real bright again. Decent? You keep beating your drum. Its certainly your right. But when Favre figures out a way to win in Dallas, you come talk to me.
You are twitching all over the place. Have you heard the expression "Thou doth protest too much"? It may never have greater relevance. You make a fool of yourself arguing your case.
A much stronger argument is presented by others here, and much more succinctly I might add, for Randy Moss. Aside from his asylum in Oakland, Moss has made every quarterback he has played with look like a Hall of Famer. So when he is paired with a decent (not great) quarterback in Tom Brady, along with their other weapons, he makes Brady look 'triffic.
DoubleG
Footballguy
Becuase it's not the "Most Valuable Passer" award?
The arguments in this thread partly stem from the fact that everyone has a different idea about what MVP means - Most Valuable Player...to who?His team?
The league?
Does it just mean "Guy who had the best year"?
Does it mean "Guy who broke some kind of record at his position?"
Unfortunately, I think some of it has to do with all of the above + how well the player in question is liked. I am a Bears fan and have no particular love for any of the people who should have or did get MVP votes. But the fact that Randy Moss didn't get a single vote in a year where he broke the record for receiving TDs is pathetic. Should he have won it? Not necessarily, but to not get a single vote is a sad indictement on the MVP voters.
The fact that there are so many different views on this subject on these message boards is indicitive of the reason why the voting was not unanimous. Why would it be? To suggest Brady should have swept the voting is not only silly, and unrealistic, but extremely shortsighted when you consider the fact that A) he wasn't the only player on 16-0 team. B) He wasn't the only player on said 16-0 team that had a record breaking year. C) Some people would say (and could put together a legitimate argument) that Brady is not the best QB in the league (although, for 2007, it would be hard to argue). Ironically, while many have conceded the fact that Favre is the MVP of the Packers, there are those who would (again, with a legitimate argument) say that Brady wasn't even the MVP on his own team.
Big_Russ
Footballguy
Moss helped no question. But throwing the 50 TD's is not the ONLY thing that makes Brady the MVP. Having the ability (and leadership qualities) to bring the best out of Moss (even better than he was in Minny) is. The 50 TD's is not the only consideration (for me) when selecting Brady for MVP this season. Tom Brady made Moss a better football player, not the other way around. What about his 8 ints (would have had 2 fewer if he wasn't trying to force the ball to Moss for the record in the second half of the Miami blowout in December)? In doing that, he sacrificed the single season passer rating, which there is no doubt in my mind he would have gotten.
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buck naked
Footballguy
You're right about MVP transcends numbers, and Brady still wins by a landslide. Nobody in Randy Moss' 10 year career made throws to him like Brady did this year. Brady made Moss' career year with pinpoint throws for td's all year. Let's not forget just how bad Moss looked the last two years. This was the Brady show this year. Favre does not even come close.
_4_
Footballguy
You are very young aren't you. Notice not a question mark, but a period.
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