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Gregg Williams confirms Vilma bounty on Favre (1 Viewer)

GregR

Footballguy
Vilma met with Goodell today. The NFL revealed additional evidence, an affidavit signed by Gregg Williams confirming the testimony he'd given the NFL when they investigated the situation, which included that Vilma had put a $10k bounty on Favre.The NFL originally stated the evidence involved multiple independent witnesses with first hand knowledge. Presumably then the whistle blower, Cerullo allegedly, and Williams then would be at least two of those sources. And if independent, then they provided the same information without having heard the others version of events.http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8391657/new-orleans-saints-jonathan-vilma-meets-commissioner-roger-goodell

New Orleans Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma met with NFL commissioner Roger Goodell on Monday to discuss his suspension that was temporarily lifted.In Monday's meeting, the NFL gave Vilma a sworn affidavit from former Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams that the New Orleans linebacker offered $10,000 to any teammate who knocked quarterback Brett Favre out of the January 2010 NFC Championship Game, a source with knowledge of the meeting told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter.In the same affidavit, Williams confirmed the Saints had a pay-for-performance pool funded by the Saints players, the source said.Williams, according to the source, said he knew the pool violated league rules, but they never had the intent to injure or commit any on-field misconduct, they never rewarded any conduct that the refs flagged as a penalty, and any penalized conduct -- such as roughing the passer, or an illegal hit, was penalized -- not encouraged -- and the player responsible had to pay money into the pool.The source also said that Williams admitted he was not forthcoming with the league when it first approached him about the issue in 2010.Before his meeting on Monday, Vilma said "I've got no expectations right now," as he entered NFL headquarters with his lawyer, Peter Ginsberg.They came out a little more than three hours later, and Vilma called the meeting "very frank, very truthful."Vilma was one of four players suspended in the bounty scandal. But an appeals panel this month said Goodell must clarify his rulings to ensure no part of his decisions was based on salary cap violations. That would be the jurisdiction of special master Stephen Burbank.Goodell is to meet with the four players. Vilma, suspended for the entire season, requested a separate meeting. New Orleans defensive end Will Smith (four games), Browns linebacker Scott Fujita (three) and free agent defensive end Anthony Hargrove (eight) are expected to have their meeting Tuesday.Goodell must show that the basis for the discipline was inappropriate conduct -- such as intent to injure -- rather than any secret monetary compensation. In that case, he has full authority to impose the suspensions.Players and coaches implicated in the bounty pool have testified under oath in a related federal court case they never intended to injure opposing players.Smith played in each of the Saints' first two games and Vilma is on the physically unable to perform list. Fujita made his season debut in Cleveland's loss to Cincinnati on Sunday. Hargrove was cut by Green Bay during the preseason.
 
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Wow. So many conspiracy theories to consider on this one but the info seems to be clear. A person close to the source confirms it happens. so that is that.

 
Vilma met with Goodell today. The NFL revealed additional evidence, an affidavit signed by Gregg Williams confirming the testimony he'd given the NFL when they investigated the situation, which included that Vilma had put a $10k bounty on Favre.The NFL originally stated the evidence involved multiple independent witnesses with first hand knowledge. Presumably then the whistle blower, Cerullo allegedly, and Williams then would be at least two of those sources. And if independent, then they provided the same information without having heard the others version of events.http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8391657/new-orleans-saints-jonathan-vilma-meets-commissioner-roger-goodell

New Orleans Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma met with NFL commissioner Roger Goodell on Monday to discuss his suspension that was temporarily lifted.In Monday's meeting, the NFL gave Vilma a sworn affidavit from former Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams that the New Orleans linebacker offered $10,000 to any teammate who knocked quarterback Brett Favre out of the January 2010 NFC Championship Game, a source with knowledge of the meeting told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter.In the same affidavit, Williams confirmed the Saints had a pay-for-performance pool funded by the Saints players, the source said.Williams, according to the source, said he knew the pool violated league rules, but they never had the intent to injure or commit any on-field misconduct, they never rewarded any conduct that the refs flagged as a penalty, and any penalized conduct -- such as roughing the passer, or an illegal hit, was penalized -- not encouraged -- and the player responsible had to pay money into the pool.The source also said that Williams admitted he was not forthcoming with the league when it first approached him about the issue in 2010.Before his meeting on Monday, Vilma said "I've got no expectations right now," as he entered NFL headquarters with his lawyer, Peter Ginsberg.They came out a little more than three hours later, and Vilma called the meeting "very frank, very truthful."Vilma was one of four players suspended in the bounty scandal. But an appeals panel this month said Goodell must clarify his rulings to ensure no part of his decisions was based on salary cap violations. That would be the jurisdiction of special master Stephen Burbank.Goodell is to meet with the four players. Vilma, suspended for the entire season, requested a separate meeting. New Orleans defensive end Will Smith (four games), Browns linebacker Scott Fujita (three) and free agent defensive end Anthony Hargrove (eight) are expected to have their meeting Tuesday.Goodell must show that the basis for the discipline was inappropriate conduct -- such as intent to injure -- rather than any secret monetary compensation. In that case, he has full authority to impose the suspensions.Players and coaches implicated in the bounty pool have testified under oath in a related federal court case they never intended to injure opposing players.Smith played in each of the Saints' first two games and Vilma is on the physically unable to perform list. Fujita made his season debut in Cleveland's loss to Cincinnati on Sunday. Hargrove was cut by Green Bay during the preseason.
Confirms? I don't think so; you don't think the NFL has some influence in telling G Williams to say whatever they want him to say?You realize the NFL wrote his apology statement and passed it off as Williams' writing, don't you?Alleges is a better term.
 
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Andrew Brandt has some additional info via twitter:

Am being told Gregg Williams' affidavit is not new info; he agreed to memorialize it in a sworn statement. Info from months ago. Affidavit: "It was my view and my intention that we were only encouraging clean, aggressive hits within the rules of the NFL." Williams: "We did not intend to incentivize and did not make payments from the pool for illegal hits or on-field misconduct." Statements such as "kill the head" had "nothing to do with bounties" rather with football techniques, strategies, and practices. Williams says Vilma pledged 10k to knock Favre out of title game, other players he can't recall pledged additional amounts.
 
I put as much weight to this testimony as I do to that of the jailhouse snitch looking for a lighter sentence.

 
Not a lawyer, but I wouldn't be surprised if this a death knell for the defamation lawsuit. Two of the five things the court has to find to rule defamation occurred are Falsity and Malice. With this, it's pretty clear the NFL did conduct an investigation and Goodell had good reason to believe his statements were truthful. Which if I remember the comments from the legalese media, would be enough for a ruling in Goodell's favor.

 
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Not a lawyer, but I wouldn't be surprised if this a death knell for the defamation lawsuit. Two of the five things the court has to find to rule defamation occurred are Falsity and Malice. With this, it's pretty clear the NFL did conduct an investigation and Goodell had good reason to believe his statements were truthful. Which if I remember the comments from the legalese media, would be enough for a ruling in Goodell's favor.
The the whole charade by Vilma and the saints has been a neutered exercise from Day 1. They simply have/had no case to bring. They threw a party on the technicality win (what would you expect by someone naive to the law and the ruling), but now they go to the next phase where they get...slammed...dunked in embarrassing fashion again.As many others agreed quite a while ago, this was a dumb lawsuit from a strategic standpoint, and today's development sets in motion a dreadful week and days that follow for the players trying to get away with murder here.
 
Not a lawyer, but I wouldn't be surprised if this a death knell for the defamation lawsuit. Two of the five things the court has to find to rule defamation occurred are Falsity and Malice. With this, it's pretty clear the NFL did conduct an investigation and Goodell had good reason to believe his statements were truthful. Which if I remember the comments from the legalese media, would be enough for a ruling in Goodell's favor.
I agree that Vilma will have trouble proving a defamation case, but I think that the primary purpose of the suit was to use available discovery tools to find the true basis (if any) of the League's charges.Add snitch and rat to Greggggg Williams' resume'. He will say practically anything to placate the League in order to get back into coaching. Goodell holds Williams' career in his hands.
 
Not a lawyer, but I wouldn't be surprised if this a death knell for the defamation lawsuit. Two of the five things the court has to find to rule defamation occurred are Falsity and Malice. With this, it's pretty clear the NFL did conduct an investigation and Goodell had good reason to believe his statements were truthful. Which if I remember the comments from the legalese media, would be enough for a ruling in Goodell's favor.
I agree that Vilma will have trouble proving a defamation case, but I think that the primary purpose of the suit was to use available discovery tools to find the true basis (if any) of the League's charges.Add snitch and rat to Greggggg Williams' resume'. He will say practically anything to placate the League in order to get back into coaching. Goodell holds Williams' career in his hands.
Months ago, an independent reviewer of the evidence said there were multiple sources, with first hand knowledge, whose accounts of Bountygate independently agreed with each other. And that there was corroborating evidence as well, which we now know includes the ledger, emails, etc.Gregg Williams just signed an affidavit confirming the contents of what he admitted to when the NFL first re-opened the investigation. That would have been before he'd been punished. It's probably pretty safe to infer his rendition of events is one of the sources, and it's probably safe to infer Cerullo was another. And if they are independent sources as stated, then they both said Vilma offered $10k, without having heard each others rendition of events.If someone wants to say Williams going public that he revealed what he did was placating the NFL to help his own cause, I think most would agree that's likely. Saying or implying he just signed the affidavit when none of the previous events happened seems very unlikely. Especially as we were told months ago by an independent reviewer that the NFL had this exact kind of evidence.
 
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LaCanfora article with more detail to it:http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/20216104/williams-outlines-saints-payforperformance-program-10k-favre-bounty-in-affidavit

Williams outlines Saints' pay-for-performance program, $10K Favre bounty in affidavitJason La CanforaBy Jason La Canfora | CBS Sports NFL InsiderSep. 17, 2012 10:44 PM ETFormer Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams, in a signed affidavit turned over to the NFL as it prepared for its meeting with suspended "Bountygate" players, gave a lengthy statement on the origins of the Saints' pay-for-performance program, which he testified preceded his arrival in New Orleans in 2009, according to a source with knowledge of the situation.Williams did admit to subsequently revamping the pay-for-performance program, but said it did not put bounties out to injure opposing players within it, that no money was ever exchanged within that program for penalized hits, and Williams also noted that when linebacker Jonathan Vilma offered $10,000 to any teammate who knocked Vikings quarterback Brett Favre from the 2009 NFC Championship Game, it was done outside of the pay-for-performance system.Nowhere in the lengthy testimony is Cleveland linebacker Scott Fujita, one of the suspended players, ever named, the source said, and Williams pointed out that the program did not make payments for illegal hits or on-the-field misconduct.According to Williams' statement, a devastating hit that was illegal, and penalized, would never have resulted in a payment from his pay-for-performance program, even if it qualified as a "cart-off" hit. Furthermore, the former New Orleans defensive coordinator asserted in the document that even if the team felt the play in question was not a penalty, or even if the NFL league office later notified the Saints that the play was a blown call, no payments would be made as, in fact, players were penalized for penalties.If the Saints lost, he testified that no payments were ever made for any plays occurring in that game and no individual players were ever targeted within that program.Before securing this affidavit, the NFL did not have any signed statement from Williams, according to sources, and its evidence in this case has been called into questions by players and coaches, while a federal judge in Louisiana indicated strong reservations about the penalties commissioner Roger Goodell handed down.With its meetings with the players looming, the league, through lawyers, went through a process of securing the document from Williams, with the process playing out over the weekend.Sean Payton, the Saints' suspended head coach, was not contacted about agreeing to an affidavit, according to a league source. Former Saints employee Mike Cerullo also contributed an affidavit to the league, according to a league source.Vilma (one season), Fujita (three games), Saints defensive lineman Will Smith (four games) and free agent Anthony Hargrove (eight games) were all suspended by the NFL as part of what the league called a bounty program in New Orleans, while Williams was barred for at least one season. Payton was suspended for a season and general manager Mickey Loomis was suspended for half a season.Vilma spent roughly three hours meeting with NFL officials today and the other three players are scheduled to discuss their suspensions, recently "vacated" by an appeals panel, with the league on Tuesday.Within his testimony, Williams admitted to not being truthful in his initial remarks when the NFL began investigations allegations of bounty claims, which Williams says in the affidavit were originally brought to his attention by Loomis, who told the coach a Vikings player had heard about a potential bounty on Favre.According to the affidavit, Williams says Vilma addressed the team at a meeting before that championship game, with players and coaches present, and pledged the money for knocking Favre out of the game. Generally money for the pay-for-performance was collected within a "kitty," but Williams told the league he was never given money for any pledge related to a "specific player," and as Favre was not knocked out of the game, Williams "assumes" no money was paid.Williams' statement indicates that there was already an established pool when he was hired by the Saints, and said he took it over to make it more orderly and to use it to motivate and incentivize his unit, as the Saints had been lagging on defense for quite some time before his arrival. The funds, according to the testimony, were held in a box and participation was never mandatory; individuals could choose whether to participate.In 2009, defensive captains Vilma and Smith "endorsed the program," according to the testimony, made initial contributions to the kitty and additional funds would come into the pool as players were subject to financial penalties for penalties, missed opportunities to make a big play, mental errors, etc. Players received payments for sacks, interceptions, fumbles caused, interceptions caused, defensive touchdowns, etc.Williams also testified that payments were made for "big hits" or "whacks" -- and defined them as hits that caused an opposing player to leave his feet. Within the affidavit, Williams said he could not recall the exact time when "cart-offs" and "knock-offs" were added to the list of payments and testified he could not recall the exact difference, but that he believed that a cart-off would knock a player from the game for one play, and a cart-off would keep them out longer.Williams said cart-offs were the most highly rewarded, and amounts due or owed were announced at teams meetings, with blank envelopes available for those who owed.Williams testified that he regrets his actions and came to understand how payments for cart-offs could lead to more injuries. He asserted he never intended to cause someone to be injured, and admitted the program "is not part of the game."Goodell was asked to "re-determine" his rulings on the players based on an appeal panel's conclusions about his powers vis-a-vie certain areas of the collective-bargaining agreement. That panel "vacated" the suspensions 10 days ago, pursuant to Goodell making his redetermination, and league sources anticipate Goodell making his new recommendations for discipline shortly, likely by next week, following his meetings with the players.Sources close to the suspended players, and NFLPA sources, have indicated that short of Goodell drastically altering his original discipline, they anticipated appealing back to the panel and are also considering going back to a federal court in Louisiana, where they were seeking an injunction against the suspensions.Vilma has also sued the commissioner for defamation of character, and other players involved in this case are mulling lawsuits as well, sources said, pending the outcome of Goodell's review and recommendations.Through its investigation, the league came to realize that pay-for-performance programs that rewarded extra money for sacks, interceptions and the like are not endemic to the Saints, and teams had to vow to eliminate any such programs moving forward or risk major penalties.
 
Scum, all of them. Just by watching the NFC Championship game, most people thought something was going on. What a terrible way to win. Just wished the Vikings players actually held onto the ball since they would have destroyed the Saints in that game. The Saints players should not have had those suspensions overturned at all. Scum.

 
Scum, all of them. Just by watching the NFC Championship game, most people thought something was going on. What a terrible way to win. Just wished the Vikings players actually held onto the ball since they would have destroyed the Saints in that game. The Saints players should not have had those suspensions overturned at all. Scum.
nothing went on in that game that was illegal, before the bounty thing came along it looked like the Saints played a hard physical game.
 
Scum, all of them. Just by watching the NFC Championship game, most people thought something was going on. What a terrible way to win. Just wished the Vikings players actually held onto the ball since they would have destroyed the Saints in that game. The Saints players should not have had those suspensions overturned at all. Scum.
nothing went on in that game that was illegal, before the bounty thing came along it looked like the Saints played a hard physical game.
:no: The Saints were freely teeing up on Favre with no calls against them. Search for the thread on this board from that game. I am sure there were comments confirming this. The Saints were playing dirty from the get go.
 
'Greg Russell said:
Andrew Brandt has some additional info via twitter:

Am being told Gregg Williams' affidavit is not new info; he agreed to memorialize it in a sworn statement. Info from months ago. Affidavit: "It was my view and my intention that we were only encouraging clean, aggressive hits within the rules of the NFL." Williams: "We did not intend to incentivize and did not make payments from the pool for illegal hits or on-field misconduct." Statements such as "kill the head" had "nothing to do with bounties" rather with football techniques, strategies, and practices. Williams says Vilma pledged 10k to knock Favre out of title game, other players he can't recall pledged additional amounts.
So the affadavit supports the cap penalty parts, but actually helps vilma vis a vis the 'Intent to injure' side (which is all godell has jurisdiction on) :popcorn:
 
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:lmao:

When was this piece of literature signed? Last Friday? Kind of late in the game to start drumming up affidavits from people with lifetime bans from the game, no?

Give' em hell Vilma!!!

I think Jonathan has nine affidavits and has had them for a long while. Goodell should be booted as Commish.

 
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'Disc Shark said:
'Greg Russell said:
Not a lawyer, but I wouldn't be surprised if this a death knell for the defamation lawsuit. Two of the five things the court has to find to rule defamation occurred are Falsity and Malice. With this, it's pretty clear the NFL did conduct an investigation and Goodell had good reason to believe his statements were truthful. Which if I remember the comments from the legalese media, would be enough for a ruling in Goodell's favor.
I agree that Vilma will have trouble proving a defamation case, but I think that the primary purpose of the suit was to use available discovery tools to find the true basis (if any) of the League's charges.Add snitch and rat to Greggggg Williams' resume'. He will say practically anything to placate the League in order to get back into coaching. Goodell holds Williams' career in his hands.
Dude is facing a possible lifetime ban. U think Vilma's gonna pay his mortgage?
 
:lmao: When was this piece of literature signed? Last Friday? Kind of late in the game to start drumming up affidavits from people with lifetime bans from the game, no?Give' em hell Vilma!!!I think Jonathan has nine affidavits and has had them for a long while. Goodell should be booted as Commish.
Affidavit was signed three days ago; really convincing evidence here.Peter Ginsberg on mike and mike right now giving insight.
 
'Mario Kart said:
'KellysHeroes said:
'Mario Kart said:
Scum, all of them. Just by watching the NFC Championship game, most people thought something was going on. What a terrible way to win. Just wished the Vikings players actually held onto the ball since they would have destroyed the Saints in that game. The Saints players should not have had those suspensions overturned at all. Scum.
nothing went on in that game that was illegal, before the bounty thing came along it looked like the Saints played a hard physical game.
:no: The Saints were freely teeing up on Favre with no calls against them. Search for the thread on this board from that game. I am sure there were comments confirming this. The Saints were playing dirty from the get go.
yea it was pretty clear they were going after Favre...I was rooting for "old yeller" in that game cause it would have been sweet to see a Manning to Favre showdown as Favre was heading towards the end of his career and Manning was at the peak of his...The Saints clearly were trying to hurt Favre.. and they did... which is why the Vikings lost
 
'Greg Russell said:
'Disc Shark said:
'Greg Russell said:
Not a lawyer, but I wouldn't be surprised if this a death knell for the defamation lawsuit. Two of the five things the court has to find to rule defamation occurred are Falsity and Malice. With this, it's pretty clear the NFL did conduct an investigation and Goodell had good reason to believe his statements were truthful. Which if I remember the comments from the legalese media, would be enough for a ruling in Goodell's favor.
I agree that Vilma will have trouble proving a defamation case, but I think that the primary purpose of the suit was to use available discovery tools to find the true basis (if any) of the League's charges.Add snitch and rat to Greggggg Williams' resume'. He will say practically anything to placate the League in order to get back into coaching. Goodell holds Williams' career in his hands.
Months ago, an independent reviewer of the evidence said there were multiple sources, with first hand knowledge, whose accounts of Bountygate independently agreed with each other. And that there was corroborating evidence as well, which we now know includes the ledger, emails, etc.

Gregg Williams just signed an affidavit confirming the contents of what he admitted to when the NFL first re-opened the investigation. That would have been before he'd been punished. It's probably pretty safe to infer his rendition of events is one of the sources, and it's probably safe to infer Cerullo was another. And if they are independent sources as stated, then they both said Vilma offered $10k, without having heard each others rendition of events.

If someone wants to say Williams going public that he revealed what he did was placating the NFL to help his own cause, I think most would agree that's likely. Saying or implying he just signed the affidavit when none of the previous events happened seems very unlikely. Especially as we were told months ago by an independent reviewer that the NFL had this exact kind of evidence.
Help me out here, Greg. I've not the resources at the moment to go look.Wasn't the "intent to injure" the main sticking point in regards to Goddell's right to suspend? And doesn't Williams, in the statement above, say specifically that there was none? Isn't Vilma's lawyer going to turn that to his advantage? It seems to me that Williams is saying that Vilma contributed to pool that would reward a player for a clean, legal hit that happened to knock Farve out. The intent wasn't to injure - it was to encourage players to hit as hard a possible - within the rules. The prize was set up realizing that injuries happen often with clean, hard and legal hits. It seems to me that Williams was describing it as kind of a "lotto" prize. A prize that you really don't have control over. A game of chance. Play within the rules and if, by chance, Farve goes out on a play you initiated - then you win the lotto.

Again, this isn't my view as to what actually happened. I'm just going off of what's in this post and what Williams said. I just don't see this as an open and shut case as far as Vilma being "wrong".

I'd like to review all the posts from you regarding Vilma, Greg, but I just don't have the time. Sorry if I missed the answer somewhere else.

 
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Why would the NFL get anyone to sign an affidavit summarizing the info they gave?

NFL security consist of former FBI and the like. Presumably they would at least tape the interviews. You don't need a signed affidavit to piece together what happened and have confidence the person said what they said.

You only need a signed affidavit when you want to provide someone else with a summary of what was said and let them have the assurance the person actually said it.

Since the NFL was previously protecting the identity of these people - a wise move if you want people to admit to the truth - there would be no need for a signed affidavit.

Not until you decided it was in the best interest to provide someone else (the players) with that part of the evidence. So you go to the people who spoke up, get their approval to go public with it, and have them notarize that it is indeed what they said.

So that it was only signed a couple of days ago makes perfect sense.

 
'Greg Russell said:
'Disc Shark said:
'Greg Russell said:
Not a lawyer, but I wouldn't be surprised if this a death knell for the defamation lawsuit. Two of the five things the court has to find to rule defamation occurred are Falsity and Malice. With this, it's pretty clear the NFL did conduct an investigation and Goodell had good reason to believe his statements were truthful. Which if I remember the comments from the legalese media, would be enough for a ruling in Goodell's favor.
I agree that Vilma will have trouble proving a defamation case, but I think that the primary purpose of the suit was to use available discovery tools to find the true basis (if any) of the League's charges.Add snitch and rat to Greggggg Williams' resume'. He will say practically anything to placate the League in order to get back into coaching. Goodell holds Williams' career in his hands.
Months ago, an independent reviewer of the evidence said there were multiple sources, with first hand knowledge, whose accounts of Bountygate independently agreed with each other. And that there was corroborating evidence as well, which we now know includes the ledger, emails, etc.

Gregg Williams just signed an affidavit confirming the contents of what he admitted to when the NFL first re-opened the investigation. That would have been before he'd been punished. It's probably pretty safe to infer his rendition of events is one of the sources, and it's probably safe to infer Cerullo was another. And if they are independent sources as stated, then they both said Vilma offered $10k, without having heard each others rendition of events.

If someone wants to say Williams going public that he revealed what he did was placating the NFL to help his own cause, I think most would agree that's likely. Saying or implying he just signed the affidavit when none of the previous events happened seems very unlikely. Especially as we were told months ago by an independent reviewer that the NFL had this exact kind of evidence.
Help me out here, Greg. I've not the resources at the moment to go look.Wasn't the "intent to injure" the main sticking point in regards to Goddell's right to suspend? And doesn't Williams, in the statement above, say specifically that there was none? Isn't Vilma's lawyer going to turn that to his advantage? It seems to me that Williams is saying that Vilma contributed to pool that would reward a player for a clean, legal hit that happened to knock Farve out. The intent wasn't to injure - it was to encourage players to hit as hard a possible - within the rules. The prize was set up realizing that injuries happen often with clean, hard and legal hits. It seems to me that Williams was describing it as kind of a "lotto" prize. A prize that you really don't have control over. A game of chance. Play within the rules and if, by chance, Farve goes out on a play you initiated - then you win the lotto.

Again, this isn't my view as to what actually happened. I'm just going off of what's in this post and what Williams said. I just don't see this as an open and shut case as far as Vilma being "wrong".

I'd like to review all the posts from you regarding Vilma, Greg, but I just don't have the time. Sorry if I missed the answer somewhere else.
If the Saints had paid out for every "big hit", where injury was not a factor in way, then someone can claim that they were not paying for injuries.

But they are paying for "cartoffs" and "knockouts". The only way to earn that money is to cause the injury of another player. If that's the case, there's no legitimate claim they were not paying for players to create injuries. Legal hits or not doesn't change that.

Williams confirmed they were doing that. And he confirmed Vilma specifically put down a bounty on Favre that would only be paid for injuring him.

So no, I don't see it helping Vilma's cause at all. Williams confirmed that there was a bounty aspect to the case, and he confirmed Vilma specifically put down a big one on a player.

I do think some of the punishment was for cap violations, so I don't think Goodell will be right if he reinstates the same exact punishment and says it's all for conduct. But I don't see Williams testimony clearing them of conduct. The opposite, it confirmed the detrimental conduct occurred.

 
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This smells fishy because both sides are lying/wrong. Part 1 - There were bounties and many of the Saints were part of it. Part 2 - Goodell did not have the appropriate evidence to make the rulings/suspensions he made. This is an attorney's dream case. My .02.

 
'Mario Kart said:
Scum, all of them. Just by watching the NFC Championship game, most people thought something was going on. What a terrible way to win. Just wished the Vikings players actually held onto the ball since they would have destroyed the Saints in that game. The Saints players should not have had those suspensions overturned at all. Scum.
:rolleyes: this faux outrage is almost as bad as the mlb faux outrage over steroids.#everyteamwasdoingthis
 
:lmao: When was this piece of literature signed? Last Friday? Kind of late in the game to start drumming up affidavits from people with lifetime bans from the game, no?Give' em hell Vilma!!!I think Jonathan has nine affidavits and has had them for a long while. Goodell should be booted as Commish.
Not really. Until this point godell was keeping all evidence in camera. Since the ruling by the panel he has had his hand forced. An affadait is sworn testimony a d subject to perjury laws. Odds are pretty good williams ain't gonna sign an affadait that implicates him as much as the next guy, and exposes him to her slam unk civil lawsuits.
 
:lmao: When was this piece of literature signed? Last Friday? Kind of late in the game to start drumming up affidavits from people with lifetime bans from the game, no?Give' em hell Vilma!!!I think Jonathan has nine affidavits and has had them for a long while. Goodell should be booted as Commish.
Affidavit was signed three days ago; really convincing evidence here.Peter Ginsberg on mike and mike right now giving insight.
PAn affidavit is a formality. They could have just as easily simply had Gregg williams sitting there and relaying he evidence. It's only memorializes the testimony from months ago that williams gave to godell. I find it odd that so many think that they would have prepared the affidavit months ago. I think a lot of people here don't understand how affidavits are used.
 
'Mario Kart said:
'KellysHeroes said:
'Mario Kart said:
Scum, all of them. Just by watching the NFC Championship game, most people thought something was going on. What a terrible way to win. Just wished the Vikings players actually held onto the ball since they would have destroyed the Saints in that game. The Saints players should not have had those suspensions overturned at all. Scum.
nothing went on in that game that was illegal, before the bounty thing came along it looked like the Saints played a hard physical game.
:no: The Saints were freely teeing up on Favre with no calls against them. Search for the thread on this board from that game. I am sure there were comments confirming this. The Saints were playing dirty from the get go.
yea it was pretty clear they were going after Favre...I was rooting for "old yeller" in that game cause it would have been sweet to see a Manning to Favre showdown as Favre was heading towards the end of his career and Manning was at the peak of his...The Saints clearly were trying to hurt Favre.. and they did... which is why the Vikings lost
This is what I don't get. Every team is trying to knock the other q out of he game. Its what they are played millions to do. Bounty gate is one of the dumbest and most overblown scandals ever.
 
Why would the NFL get anyone to sign an affidavit summarizing the info they gave?NFL security consist of former FBI and the like. Presumably they would at least tape the interviews. You don't need a signed affidavit to piece together what happened and have confidence the person said what they said.You only need a signed affidavit when you want to provide someone else with a summary of what was said and let them have the assurance the person actually said it.Since the NFL was previously protecting the identity of these people - a wise move if you want people to admit to the truth - there would be no need for a signed affidavit.Not until you decided it was in the best interest to provide someone else (the players) with that part of the evidence. So you go to the people who spoke up, get their approval to go public with it, and have them notarize that it is indeed what they said.So that it was only signed a couple of days ago makes perfect sense.
Affadavits are used essentially to memorialize testimony/evidence, and usually to prevent the expense and need to physically be present to offer said testimony. It's very similar to a notary public's role.I'm guessing at this stage it was done not to inflame passions at he meeting by having williams in the same e room as Vilma during this round of negotiations.
 
This smells fishy because both sides are lying/wrong. Part 1 - There were bounties and many of the Saints were part of it. Part 2 - Goodell did not have the appropriate evidence to make the rulings/suspensions he made. This is an attorney's dream case. My .02.
Lol. If anything yesterday's news turned this from a possibly decent case, to one in which Vilma et Al have almost no chance of winning, unless they work out a deal to avoid the expense and PR nightmare hat would come from a trial.Its only a dream case for an attorney as it is high profile and gets you on TV.
 
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Both sides, players and NFL, need to realize they are just hurting themselves with all the acrimony that exists, not just on this issue but on everything, even the minor issues like increasing padding on players. They need to find a way to bridge the gap.

Hopefully they make a deal to put this to bed. I said before I thought the NFL might have reduced the suspensions had the players just gone through the appeal process. There certainly is some room to give on some of them and still have them be an effective deterrence and precedent.

 
Why would the NFL get anyone to sign an affidavit summarizing the info they gave?NFL security consist of former FBI and the like. Presumably they would at least tape the interviews. You don't need a signed affidavit to piece together what happened and have confidence the person said what they said.You only need a signed affidavit when you want to provide someone else with a summary of what was said and let them have the assurance the person actually said it.Since the NFL was previously protecting the identity of these people - a wise move if you want people to admit to the truth - there would be no need for a signed affidavit.Not until you decided it was in the best interest to provide someone else (the players) with that part of the evidence. So you go to the people who spoke up, get their approval to go public with it, and have them notarize that it is indeed what they said.So that it was only signed a couple of days ago makes perfect sense.
Affadavits are used essentially to memorialize testimony/evidence, and usually to prevent the expense and need to physically be present to offer said testimony. It's very similar to a notary public's role.I'm guessing at this stage it was done not to inflame passions at he meeting by having williams in the same e room as Vilma during this round of negotiations.
Thanks for the info Hipple.
 
'Greg Russell said:
there's no legitimate claim they were not paying for players to create injuries.
See, that word "create" is where I disagree with you (as far as proving anything). I go back to the lotto comparison - he could have made tons of rewards that could happen - yet shouldn't (or couldn't) be "created":
[*]Prize pool 1: If a player gets carted off resulting from a hit you executed - $10,000

[*]Prize pool 2: If you hit the QB as he throws the ball and it hits a cheerleader - $10,000

[*]Prize pool 3: If you make a play - any play - that is so astounding that Roger Goddell chokes on an ice cube and dies - $1 million

You could make prizes for any random occurences in every day life and easily prove in a court of law that you weren't encouraging anyone to actually alter normal events to make them happen. Now, would the temptation be there? Sure. But it would be hard to prove what the person was thinking at the point in time when they did something to win the "prize". (Was he trying to make it happen? What was he thinking? Did it just happen in the normal course of events?)

I'm sure you see my point. Now, do I believe that's what was going on? Hell, no. But, for a moment, let's take Vilma out of the equation. What about the other players? Does anything that I read tell me that they had a mindset to injure? Or were they just playing hard hard and if some random event happened they'd get a bonus? And that random event that might or might not happen is tied to them playing a good, clean and legal game...

I'm not sure what happened. Put Vilma aside, though, and I sure haven't seen much to prove the other players' intent to injure. But maybe the NFL holds more cards and will show them soon.

 
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Both sides, players and NFL, need to realize they are just hurting themselves with all the acrimony that exists, not just on this issue but on everything, even the minor issues like increasing padding on players. They need to find a way to bridge the gap.Hopefully they make a deal to put this to bed. I said before I thought the NFL might have reduced the suspensions had the players just gone through the appeal process. There certainly is some room to give on some of them and still have them be an effective deterrence and precedent.
And this, by the way, I think everyone can agree on.Fix this "bounty gate" situation and fix the referee situation. Neither makes the NFL look good.
 
'Greg Russell said:
Not a lawyer, but I wouldn't be surprised if this a death knell for the defamation lawsuit. Two of the five things the court has to find to rule defamation occurred are Falsity and Malice. With this, it's pretty clear the NFL did conduct an investigation and Goodell had good reason to believe his statements were truthful. Which if I remember the comments from the legalese media, would be enough for a ruling in Goodell's favor.
I am an attorney and I generally agree with you, provided that William's story is not so unbelievable that the plaintiff can prove that Goodell did not have a good faith basis to rely on it along with other evidence.
 
'Greg Russell said:
there's no legitimate claim they were not paying for players to create injuries.
See, that word "create" is where I disagree with you (as far as proving anything). I go back to the lotto comparison - he could have made tons of rewards that could happen - yet shouldn't (or couldn't) be "created":
[*]Prize pool 1: If a player gets carted off resulting from a hit you executed - $10,000

[*]Prize pool 2: If you hit the QB as he throws the ball and it hits a cheerleader - $10,000

[*]Prize pool 3: If you make a play - any play - that is so astounding that Roger Goddell chokes on an ice cube and dies - $1 million

You could make prizes for any random occurences in every day life and easily prove in a court of law that you weren't encouraging anyone to actually alter normal events to make them happen. Now, would the temptation be there? Sure. But it would be hard to prove what the person was thinking at the point in time when they did something to win the "prize". (Was he trying to make it happen? What was he thinking? Did it just happen in the normal course of events?)

I'm sure you see my point. Now, do I believe that's what was going on? Hell, no. But, for a moment, let's take Vilma out of the equation. What about the other players? Does anything that I read tell me that they had a mindset to injure? Or were they just playing hard hard and if some random event happened they'd get a bonus? And that random event that might or might not happen is tied to them playing a good, clean and legal game...

I'm not sure what happened. Put Vilma aside, though, and I sure haven't seen much to prove the other players' intent to injure. But maybe the NFL holds more cards and will show them soon.
If the bounties were for random occurrences a player has absolutely no ability to cause or increase the chance of, that would be true.That isn't the case here. Easy for a player to increase the chance of injury, even while still being legal. Go for the knees of a rb. Go for the head of any runner including scrambling QB.

It could be hard to prove legally that a specific player was intending to injure. But it is common sense a bonus only achieved by injurying players encourages such. And need be stopped even if that group of Saints players didn't sink to altering their play to try to connect.

 

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