Freezing kickers (1 Viewer)

[JohnnyU]

A rule needs to be instituted that prevents coaches from calling time out once the offensive team is set on field goal tries. Not only is it riduculous to fans, but unfair to kickers to make them have to kick it twice. Now I know that sometimes works in the kicker's favor because he misses the first attempt, but overall it doesn't seem to be a good thing. As a fan I hate it.

Update: What about not allowing TO to be called > 5 seconds after offense is set to kick. That way it gives the defensive team time to call a timeout in the event of 12 men on the field and still not cause a do over because the offense can wait > 5 seconds to kick?

 

[Dr. Awesome]

Why?

 

[JohnnyU]

Why?

What? Reason I hate it? I hate it because it puts a hiccup in the game that's not needed. I don't want do overs unless there is a penalty. Unfair to the kickers? What if he pulls a hammy but makes the first kick?

 

[FavreCo]

It's just so unfair to the kickers.

Can we get a rule that says no rushing the passer too? It's so unfair to the QB's.

 

[ICON211]

A rule needs to be instituted that prevents coaches from calling time out once the offensive team is set on field goal tries. Not only is it riduculous to fans, but unfair to kickers to make them have to kick it twice. Now I know that sometimes works in the kicker's favor because he misses the first attempt, but overall it doesn't seem to be a good thing. As a fan I hate it.

Completely agree, but I am not sure what can be done. What if a coach realizes he has 12 men on the field right before the kick?

 

[Godsbrother]

An easy way to fix it would be to disallow calling a timeout from the sideline on FG attempts and to ignore TO requests within 2 seconds of the snap of the ball.

 

[JohnnyU]

A rule needs to be instituted that prevents coaches from calling time out once the offensive team is set on field goal tries. Not only is it riduculous to fans, but unfair to kickers to make them have to kick it twice. Now I know that sometimes works in the kicker's favor because he misses the first attempt, but overall it doesn't seem to be a good thing. As a fan I hate it.

Completely agree, but I am not sure what can be done. What if a coach realizes he has 12 men on the field right before the kick?

Then he needs to realize it before the offense gets set. Also, this is only for FGs, not normal offensive sets.Or not allow timeouts to be called > 5 seconds after the offense is set for a FG try.

 

[JohnnyU]

An easy way to fix it would be to disallow calling a timeout from the sideline on FG attempts and to ignore TO requests within 2 seconds of the snap of the ball.

What would prevent an defensive player doing the same thing, thus causing a do over.

 

[Lehigh98]

It's annoying.

Anyone have the stats of its effectiveness and backfireyness?

 

[Das Boot]

A rule needs to be instituted that prevents coaches from calling time out once the offensive team is set on field goal tries. Not only is it riduculous to fans, but unfair to kickers to make them have to kick it twice. Now I know that sometimes works in the kicker's favor because he misses the first attempt, but overall it doesn't seem to be a good thing. As a fan I hate it.

Completely agree, but I am not sure what can be done. What if a coach realizes he has 12 men on the field right before the kick?

Then he needs to realize it before the offense gets set. Also, this is only for FGs, not normal offensive sets.

I agree with the sentiment of wanting to prevent "freezing" TOs, but there are legit reasons a TO could be called so I doubt you'll see it change.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

Why?

What? Reason I hate it? I hate it because it puts a hiccup in the game that's not needed. I don't want do overs unless there is a penalty. Unfair to the kickers? What if he pulls a hammy but makes the first kick?

So what? Should coaches be allowed to call timeouts on 4th down when they fake going for it?

 

[JohnnyU]

A rule needs to be instituted that prevents coaches from calling time out once the offensive team is set on field goal tries. Not only is it riduculous to fans, but unfair to kickers to make them have to kick it twice. Now I know that sometimes works in the kicker's favor because he misses the first attempt, but overall it doesn't seem to be a good thing. As a fan I hate it.

Completely agree, but I am not sure what can be done. What if a coach realizes he has 12 men on the field right before the kick?

Then he needs to realize it before the offense gets set. Also, this is only for FGs, not normal offensive sets.

I agree with the sentiment of wanting to prevent "freezing" TOs, but there are legit reasons a TO could be called so I doubt you'll see it change.

What about not allowing TO to be called > 5 seconds after offense is set to kick. That way it gives the defensive team time to call a timeout in the event of 12 men on the field and still not cause a do over because the offense can wait > 5 seconds to kick?

 

[JohnnyU]

Why?

What? Reason I hate it? I hate it because it puts a hiccup in the game that's not needed. I don't want do overs unless there is a penalty. Unfair to the kickers? What if he pulls a hammy but makes the first kick?

So what? Should coaches be allowed to call timeouts on 4th down when they fake going for it?

Apples and Oranges. If you can't provide a decent argument ......

 

[Dr. Awesome]

I don't think teams should be able to sub players on drives. If the offense doesn't go no huddle the entire drive it slows down the game too much.

 

[doowain]

Who cares? I've seen it backfire on the coach and I've seen it be successful. It's a strategic part of the game. The offense can call a timeout to gather themselves and plan the next play. Why can't the defense do the same to try to unravel them?

They are professionals. A timeout shouldn't change your effectiveness.

 

[humpback]

An easy way to fix it would be to disallow calling a timeout from the sideline on FG attempts and to ignore TO requests within 2 seconds of the snap of the ball.

How on earth do you know if a TO request is within 2 seconds of the snap of the ball?

 

[Dr. Awesome]

Why?

What? Reason I hate it? I hate it because it puts a hiccup in the game that's not needed. I don't want do overs unless there is a penalty. Unfair to the kickers? What if he pulls a hammy but makes the first kick?

So what? Should coaches be allowed to call timeouts on 4th down when they fake going for it?

Apples and Oranges. If you can't provide a decent argument ......

Your 'argument' is it bothers you and delays the game. It's a lame argument at best.

 

[azgroover]

Give the other coach the choice of taking the points or trying again?

 

[Dr. Awesome]

Why?

What? Reason I hate it? I hate it because it puts a hiccup in the game that's not needed. I don't want do overs unless there is a penalty. Unfair to the kickers? What if he pulls a hammy but makes the first kick?

I mean...this is really the reason you think things shouldn't be allowed? Because a kicker might pull their hamstring? You must be fishing.

 

[Godsbrother]

An easy way to fix it would be to disallow calling a timeout from the sideline on FG attempts and to ignore TO requests within 2 seconds of the snap of the ball.

What would prevent an defensive player doing the same thing, thus causing a do over.

A coach calling it from the sideline stands right next to the official and so they get an immediate timeout. A player on the field doesn't have that luxury and would have to call the timeout much sooner to ensure he was seen by an official and the timeout granted.

 

[JohnnyU]

An easy way to fix it would be to disallow calling a timeout from the sideline on FG attempts and to ignore TO requests within 2 seconds of the snap of the ball.

How on earth do you know if a TO request is within 2 seconds of the snap of the ball?

How about post #12? That would do it.

 

[Godsbrother]

An easy way to fix it would be to disallow calling a timeout from the sideline on FG attempts and to ignore TO requests within 2 seconds of the snap of the ball.

How on earth do you know if a TO request is within 2 seconds of the snap of the ball?

There is a play clock on the field and it is running before the snap so it can easily be determined when the snap and the TO signal occurs. If the ball is snapped and the TO is called within 2 seconds of that snap then the TO request is ignored.

 

[Insein]

Terrible idea. Just let it go. They can't call more than 1, so whats the big deal. You're the kicker. Use that first one as a practice to line it up. There's been just as many times where the kicker missed it then made it on the next one as there has kicker made it then missed.

 

[humpback]

An easy way to fix it would be to disallow calling a timeout from the sideline on FG attempts and to ignore TO requests within 2 seconds of the snap of the ball.

How on earth do you know if a TO request is within 2 seconds of the snap of the ball?

How about post #12? That would do it.

Still not practical- you'd have to have some official make a determination of when the team is "set to kick", and then either signal a clock operator or start counting Mississippi's to see when 5 seconds has expired? Even then, the team would be kind of freezing their own kicker- they would have to stay "set to kick" for at least 5 seconds if they wanted to make sure the defense wasn't going to call a TO.

 

[JohnnyU]

An easy way to fix it would be to disallow calling a timeout from the sideline on FG attempts and to ignore TO requests within 2 seconds of the snap of the ball.

How on earth do you know if a TO request is within 2 seconds of the snap of the ball?

How about post #12? That would do it.

Still not practical- you'd have to have some official make a determination of when the team is "set to kick", and then either signal a clock operator or start counting Mississippi's to see when 5 seconds has expired? Even then, the team would be kind of freezing their own kicker- they would have to stay "set to kick" for at least 5 seconds if they wanted to make sure the defense wasn't going to call a TO.

Actually all refs know when a team is set, so all he would have to do is look at the play clock.

 

[gotexansgo]

big fuss over nothing...big deal the kicker might have to kick 2 times in a row. As has been said its not like it always works. Its not unfair in anyway at all, nobody is getting an advantage, and if anyone is its the kicker as he knows how off he was or if he just has to kick it the same, at that point its all on him to execute.

 

[humpback]

An easy way to fix it would be to disallow calling a timeout from the sideline on FG attempts and to ignore TO requests within 2 seconds of the snap of the ball.

How on earth do you know if a TO request is within 2 seconds of the snap of the ball?

There is a play clock on the field and it is running before the snap so it can easily be determined when the snap and the TO signal occurs. If the ball is snapped and the TO is called within 2 seconds of that snap then the TO request is ignored.

Everybody would still have to play as if the TO isn't going to be allowed, and then what? Go to booth review every time to see if the snap was within 2 seconds? "After further review, we have determined that the snap was made 2.14 seconds after the TO was called, so it is granted. Re-kick."

 

[JohnnyU]

Even if it isn't unfair to the kickers, you won't find too many fans who thinks it's good for the game. Shouldn't the fans voice count on unnecessary do overs?

 

[Modog814]

I guess I'm in the minority, but I actually like it. 1) It adds strategy to a game 2) You get 3 time outs per half, and I believe you should get to use them anyway you see fit.

Sometimes it works in the defenses favor, other times in the offenses favor, most times doesn't make a difference. Nothing wrong with playing a few mind games, it's not like you can carry the Timeouts over. I'm actually beging to think that it's creeping into the heads of some kickers. This past week John Kasay missed a game winning field goal and you could see him turn immediately to the ref, almost in anticipation of the ref saying a TO was called.

I don't think it's unfair to kickers (or more so than anything else done to any other player by an opposing coach), in fact I recall some kicker saying he didn't mind it because it gave him a practice kick. I don't see anything wrong with it. It's a coach using all the assets they have at their disposal to try to win a game.

 

[gotexansgo]

Even if it isn't unfair to the kickers, you won't find too many fans who thinks it's good for the game. Shouldn't the fans voice count on unnecessary do overs?

so does the same rule apply to regular plays? How many times do you see an offense or defense wait for the other team to get set only to call a timeout, or like was mentioned before a team fake going for it on 4th down just simply trying to get the other team to jump offsides, that bothers me more then this personally. I know Ive seen a few plays this season have to be stopped because a late TO was called. Its apart of the game, sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesnt deal with it.

 

[JohnnyU]

Even if it isn't unfair to the kickers, you won't find too many fans who thinks it's good for the game. Shouldn't the fans voice count on unnecessary do overs?

so does the same rule apply to regular plays? How many times do you see an offense or defense wait for the other team to get set only to call a timeout, or like was mentioned before a team fake going for it on 4th down just simply trying to get the other team to jump offsides, that bothers me more then this personally. I know Ive seen a few plays this season have to be stopped because a late TO was called. Its apart of the game, sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesnt deal with it.

No, just FGs.

 

[gotexansgo]

No, just FGs.

why? why should a field goal be treated differently then any other play?

 

[ICON211]

Even if it isn't unfair to the kickers, you won't find too many fans who thinks it's good for the game. Shouldn't the fans voice count on unnecessary do overs?

I think a lot of people are missing this aspect and I am not sure how. Its terrible watching a game and not really knowing right away if the kick at the end of a game counted or not. There have been plenty of games where one team is celebrating and the announcers have called that the game is over and have that not be the case.

 

[wadegarrett]

Even if it isn't unfair to the kickers, you won't find too many fans who thinks it's good for the game. Shouldn't the fans voice count on unnecessary do overs?

so does the same rule apply to regular plays? How many times do you see an offense or defense wait for the other team to get set only to call a timeout, or like was mentioned before a team fake going for it on 4th down just simply trying to get the other team to jump offsides, that bothers me more then this personally. I know Ive seen a few plays this season have to be stopped because a late TO was called. Its apart of the game, sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesnt deal with it.

No, just FGs.

You're mad you have to wait a whole 60 seconds for him to kick again? 60 seconds?!! Suck it up Sally.

 

[CalBear]

It's annoying.Anyone have the stats of its effectiveness and backfireyness?

I don't have any stats, but I'm 100% certain that it has no effect on the success of the kick. It's a waste of everyone's time. Simple solution; if the coach is sitting there waiting for the right moment to call the timeout, the ref just ignores him.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Generally I think NFL football is very good entertainment. Freezing kickers is probably among the relatively short list of things I find annoying, but I don't think its anywhere near the top.

 

[humpback]

An easy way to fix it would be to disallow calling a timeout from the sideline on FG attempts and to ignore TO requests within 2 seconds of the snap of the ball.

How on earth do you know if a TO request is within 2 seconds of the snap of the ball?

How about post #12? That would do it.

Still not practical- you'd have to have some official make a determination of when the team is "set to kick", and then either signal a clock operator or start counting Mississippi's to see when 5 seconds has expired? Even then, the team would be kind of freezing their own kicker- they would have to stay "set to kick" for at least 5 seconds if they wanted to make sure the defense wasn't going to call a TO.

Actually all refs know when a team is set, so all he would have to do is look at the play clock.

They know when the play clock has started, they know when the ball has been spotted, but as far as I know, there is no clear-cut "we're set to kick now" defining moment.It's just not that big of a deal.

 

[Godsbrother]

An easy way to fix it would be to disallow calling a timeout from the sideline on FG attempts and to ignore TO requests within 2 seconds of the snap of the ball.

How on earth do you know if a TO request is within 2 seconds of the snap of the ball?

There is a play clock on the field and it is running before the snap so it can easily be determined when the snap and the TO signal occurs. If the ball is snapped and the TO is called within 2 seconds of that snap then the TO request is ignored.

Everybody would still have to play as if the TO isn't going to be allowed, and then what? Go to booth review every time to see if the snap was within 2 seconds? "After further review, we have determined that the snap was made 2.14 seconds after the TO was called, so it is granted. Re-kick."

I don't even think it would come to this if they made a defensive player on the field call the TO. The official has to grant the TO and a player would have to call it earlier in order to make sure they were seen. The problem now is the coach stands right next to the official on the sideline and is granted the TO immediately.

 

[CalBear]

It's annoying.Anyone have the stats of its effectiveness and backfireyness?

I don't have any stats, but I'm 100% certain that it has no effect on the success of the kick. It's a waste of everyone's time. Simple solution; if the coach is sitting there waiting for the right moment to call the timeout, the ref just ignores him.

 

[Godsbrother]

An easy way to fix it would be to disallow calling a timeout from the sideline on FG attempts and to ignore TO requests within 2 seconds of the snap of the ball.

How on earth do you know if a TO request is within 2 seconds of the snap of the ball?

There is a play clock on the field and it is running before the snap so it can easily be determined when the snap and the TO signal occurs. If the ball is snapped and the TO is called within 2 seconds of that snap then the TO request is ignored.

Everybody would still have to play as if the TO isn't going to be allowed, and then what? Go to booth review every time to see if the snap was within 2 seconds? "After further review, we have determined that the snap was made 2.14 seconds after the TO was called, so it is granted. Re-kick."

I don't even think it would come to this if they made a defensive player on the field call the TO. The official has to grant the TO and a player would have to call it earlier in order to make sure they were seen. The problem now is the coach stands right next to the official on the sideline and is granted the TO immediately.

 

[Irish Chaos]

WSJ had an article a month or so ago...freezing kickers is stupid. Here are the numbers behind the argument against it:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405...2194098670.html

 

[JohnnyU]

No, just FGs.

why? why should a field goal be treated differently then any other play?

Why not? There are different rules for different kicking formations.

 

[flc735]

Why?

What? Reason I hate it? I hate it because it puts a hiccup in the game that's not needed. I don't want do overs unless there is a penalty. Unfair to the kickers? What if he pulls a hammy but makes the first kick?

So what? Should coaches be allowed to call timeouts on 4th down when they fake going for it?

Apples and Oranges. If you can't provide a decent argument ......

Your 'argument' is it bothers you and delays the game. It's a lame argument at best.

FG team goes on the field, with 5 seconds left, they switch into a shotgun formation. the 3rd string wr catches a pass from the backup qb because the 4th string linebacker was not able to cover him one on one. the defensive team couldn't call a time out to adjust. its only 30 seconds, it builds suspense at least. whats the big deal??

 

[Insein]

Even if it isn't unfair to the kickers, you won't find too many fans who thinks it's good for the game. Shouldn't the fans voice count on unnecessary do overs?

<--------- a fanI don't care. I think a lot of fans don't either. A vocal minority like to whine about it but most could care less. They will care if they implement a dumb rule like no TO's within 2 secs of a snap and then take 4 minutes to review if it was taken in time. Its a simple gamemanship play. Deal with it. Kick it again. Move on with life.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

This thread is a fishing trip. It has to be.

 

[gotexansgo]

Even if it isn't unfair to the kickers, you won't find too many fans who thinks it's good for the game. Shouldn't the fans voice count on unnecessary do overs?

<--------- a fanI don't care. I think a lot of fans don't either. A vocal minority like to whine about it but most could care less. They will care if they implement a dumb rule like no TO's within 2 secs of a snap and then take 4 minutes to review if it was taken in time. Its a simple gamemanship play. Deal with it. Kick it again. Move on with life.

 

[Insein]

This thread is a fishing trip. It has to be.

 

[[icon]]

I think they should do it twice instead of just once. It gives me time to get another beer AND to take a piss.

 

[Please See Mine]

WSJ had an article a month or so ago...freezing kickers is stupid. Here are the numbers behind the argument against it:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405...2194098670.html

this is the real story of this whole issue.

 

[cvnpoka]

It's annoying.Anyone have the stats of its effectiveness and backfireyness?

when you consider the cost of the timeout its almost always a bad move. marvin once iced the steelers with like 1:10 left. thats tons of time and the timeout is very worthwhile on the game winning drive. as it went, the bengals got down the field for a 45 yard that they missed. that extra timeout is worth potential yards on the next drive.even with as little as 15s left it can be worthwhile for a deep hail mary bomb to put the team in fg range. esp if its a tie game and the kicker misses. ball at the 40 with 8s is enough for a slight chance at fg range with that timeout.