Funk's Top 24 Rookies 2008 (1 Viewer)

[EBF]

I'm not quite sure I understand your take. Everything you say, I agree with, minus two things: mid 4-4 speed, and Fred Taylor. But in view of what you wrote, that he's basically a #2 RB for FF purposes, how do you have him as the #1 RB in this class? And what about him makes you think Fred Taylor at all? Taylor is one of the best RBs to ever play the game, despite being injured quite often over his career. Stewart is nowhere near that.

I don't think there is a truly elite skill position prospect in this draft. There's no Adrian Peterson, Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, or Reggie Bush. Stewart has the best physical skills of all the RBs and seems like he has the best chance to become an impact FF player. But he is not a strong #1 and he is not on par with the recent top RB prospects. He is closer to Lynch and Maroney than Peterson. As for the Taylor comparison, both guys are size/power hybrids with suspect durability. In terms of running style and body type they're not mirror images. I agree with that. I think Stewart can have a similar FF impact though (fringe RB1 type).

If any player in this draft has a great chance to be a STUD, it's Jones. I think Mendenhall may be the safest pick, as you do, but Mendenhall is a Marshawn Lynch, Joseph Addai player. RM is a great RB, who will probably be top-5 most of his career, but never the #1 RB. Jones OTOH I think has all the goods to be the #1 RB in the league.

Sometimes he looks great, but I don't have the same faith in him as you do for reasons which I've outlined above. He's a good prospect though.

I suck at ranking WRs... I'll say that to start. But something about Doucet sticks out to me, he just seems like a Boldin, Owens guy, who didn't get all the college level accolades, but exploded in the NFL. Eh... who knows, I'm usually wrong, right?

If he lands in a prime spot he can be productive, but he is not an elite talent IMO. Owens and Boldin are far, far more freakish. Doucet is more like Arnaz Battle. I don't see stardom in his future. At best he could become a Ward type. I think that's unlikely thouh.

 

[ravnzfan]

It's rare that you have a player who's a perfect mirror image of a current NFL player. So typically what you do is you throw out a couple names of comparable players to give the readers an overall picture of what to expect from a given prospect. You could say Frank Gore and Ryan Moats represent the range of Ray Rice's potential in the NFL.

I think most people understand the comparisons and find them helpful. I'm sorry if you don't.

Enjoy your fantasy football team by drafting Ryan Moats 5th overall.

never have I heard EBF say he'd take a Moats anywhere near 1.5---I've drafted w/the young man, as I have w/over 150 FBG's in what will be 15-14 team dynasty leagues alittle later this spring...

no one...and I mean NO ONE, refrains from chasing plunging value the way EBF stands down to positional runs

if he views a RB as a late 3rd/early 4th talent and there are next to none left on the board @ his spot late in the 2nd, he sticks to his board, almost to a fault, and drafts accordingly

I've been guilty, as many of us have, at leaping after a guy cuz the tier is about empty---not the Funk-meister

so, enough

nice job, EBF...as a fellow league mate, I appreciate the amount of work you've obviously done in putting this ranking together

So we get to gloss over the inconsistency in the player comparisons?I could care less about his rankings and any criticism therein - it was the player comparisons I took issue with - that was the point. EBF puts out player comparisons that I disagree with and I don't agree with his reasoning (saying Ryan Moats is the player that compares well with Ray Rice, and then stating with Royal that Coles is a good comparison - yet giving two different reasons for each - Moats for style / physical traits, Coles for Fantasy Football comparisons).

Excuse me for asking his reasoning for player comparison - but would anyone else have guessed that the reasoning was different for each? Would you expect that from a list?

I'd have expected consistency.

Anyone who puts out a list should expect feedback and questions. That's part of the deal. Believe me, I know that.

I still agreed with other parts of what EBF said and that he should continue to voice his opinions.

No one should be silenced on either side - the listmaker or the questioner.

:awaitsJP's-top24:

You know that won't be coming until after the NFL Draft. I've said on numerous occasions that I don't watch enough college ball to make those deep of a lists just on college talent. I'll make mine in May.

all was fine until lobbing the "enjoy your FF team by taking Ryan Moats 5th overall"you know I love 'ya, big guy...that was a bit of a low blow for the the JP I've come to know and respect around here

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

It's rare that you have a player who's a perfect mirror image of a current NFL player. So typically what you do is you throw out a couple names of comparable players to give the readers an overall picture of what to expect from a given prospect. You could say Frank Gore and Ryan Moats represent the range of Ray Rice's potential in the NFL.

I think most people understand the comparisons and find them helpful. I'm sorry if you don't.

Enjoy your fantasy football team by drafting Ryan Moats 5th overall.

never have I heard EBF say he'd take a Moats anywhere near 1.5---I've drafted w/the young man, as I have w/over 150 FBG's in what will be 15-14 team dynasty leagues alittle later this spring...

no one...and I mean NO ONE, refrains from chasing plunging value the way EBF stands down to positional runs

if he views a RB as a late 3rd/early 4th talent and there are next to none left on the board @ his spot late in the 2nd, he sticks to his board, almost to a fault, and drafts accordingly

I've been guilty, as many of us have, at leaping after a guy cuz the tier is about empty---not the Funk-meister

so, enough

nice job, EBF...as a fellow league mate, I appreciate the amount of work you've obviously done in putting this ranking together

So we get to gloss over the inconsistency in the player comparisons?I could care less about his rankings and any criticism therein - it was the player comparisons I took issue with - that was the point. EBF puts out player comparisons that I disagree with and I don't agree with his reasoning (saying Ryan Moats is the player that compares well with Ray Rice, and then stating with Royal that Coles is a good comparison - yet giving two different reasons for each - Moats for style / physical traits, Coles for Fantasy Football comparisons).

Excuse me for asking his reasoning for player comparison - but would anyone else have guessed that the reasoning was different for each? Would you expect that from a list?

I'd have expected consistency.

Anyone who puts out a list should expect feedback and questions. That's part of the deal. Believe me, I know that.

I still agreed with other parts of what EBF said and that he should continue to voice his opinions.

No one should be silenced on either side - the listmaker or the questioner.

:awaitsJP's-top24:

You know that won't be coming until after the NFL Draft. I've said on numerous occasions that I don't watch enough college ball to make those deep of a lists just on college talent. I'll make mine in May.

all was fine until lobbing the "enjoy your FF team by taking Ryan Moats 5th overall"you know I love 'ya, big guy...that was a bit of a low blow for the the JP I've come to know and respect around here

Hopefully EBF took that in stride. Granted I was nitpicking a bit, but I'm a stickler sometimes on a few issues.I'll leave this one alone - overall I support EBF's efforts around here (and any others who stick their necks out to share thoughts).

You know I'll be one of those come May/June/July.

 

[Chaos Commish]

That's just because I'm impressed with Sweed's intangibles (very very) very much, and not so impressed with Kelly's. Kelly is a little mysterious this off-season and that bugs me especially with squirrelly WRs...

I'm not the only one a little bugged by Kelly this offseason.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

.

 

[loose circuits]

I am going to bump Chris Johnson up here. It was a mistake and an oversight to have him so low. In reality, his draft stock is close to that of Felix Jones and he should probably be considered in the same range in FF drafts. I got a little too carried away with the "scat back" thing without looking at the rare athletic gifts he brings to the table.

More on Chris Johnson: He wasn't on my radar at all throughout most of the year, so I think I was inclined to dismiss him without giving him much thought. That was a mistake. Now that I've stepped back and considered his prospects objectively, I think he is comparable in value to Felix Jones. This is a guy who will go in the top 45 picks in April and has a fairly elite set of physical skills. Couple that with good production and a decent score on the "eyeball test" and you have an intriguing RB prospect who will almost certainly come of the board in the first 8 picks in most rookie drafts. So while I still have some issues with his lack of power, my initial ranking of 23 was criminally bad. He is worth a look inside the top 10 due to his upside. He isn't a sure thing, but who is?Other than that, I don't see any major faults with my rankings. Thanks to westbrook36 for pointing this one out.

I was going to say something about Chris Johnson. I think in PPR you can make an argument for him at #4. I see him having a similar career as Reggie Bush (when used correctly); although Johnson seems to be just as good of receiver and better running between the tackles. If Johnson would have been playing behind that USC line (that Bush ran behind), there is no doubt that he would be one of the top 4 in my mind.I think you are also undervaluing Matt Forte. You say you like RB's that bring the pain and Forte can do that. He's got good size, decent hands, and he moves pretty well. He impressed me at the Senior Bowl and his stock has done nothing but rise. If he gets draft by a team like the Bears (rumors of private workout), I am sure he will shoot up draft boards.You obvioulsy value the WR's in this draft much more than me. I just don't see any can't miss prospects and would rather take a shotgun approach with the 2nd/3rd round guys than draft one of the questionable wideouts in the 1st altogether. I agree that there isn't anybody that I would feel like I missed out on in this draft if somebody else drafted them. I'm drafting at 1.6 and I have an idea of who I want, but the other guys could just as easily end up having better careers. Overall these are as good as any...thanks for sharing!!

 

[rabidfireweasel]

It's rare that you have a player who's a perfect mirror image of a current NFL player. So typically what you do is you throw out a couple names of comparable players to give the readers an overall picture of what to expect from a given prospect. You could say Frank Gore and Ryan Moats represent the range of Ray Rice's potential in the NFL. I think most people understand the comparisons and find them helpful. I'm sorry if you don't.

Enjoy your fantasy football team by drafting Ryan Moats 5th overall.

Moats is a very valid low end compare. Look at this predraft write up of Moats:Ryan Moats, RB, Louisiana Tech BulldogsApril 20, 2005 16:00:00By Brian DeanEdited by John MelilloThe 2005 NFL Draft is becoming famously deep at the running back position. For a good portion of the draft season, Louisiana Tech RB Ryan Moats was flying below radar. Lately, though, he has been getting some well-deserved attention. Moats' idol is former Detroit Lions RB Barry Sanders - both in life and on the football field. Like his idol, Moats is wise beyond his years, is a high character individual and very difficult to tackle. His decision to come out early was based on the belief that he would be overlooked for his height no matter how well he might do as a senior. Instead, Moats wanted to spend that year earning a spot in the NFL.As a high school sophomore, Moats suffered a leg injury, initially believed to be a deep thigh bruise. It turned out to be much worse. He had a staph infection that damaged his femur bone. He went threw multiple surgeries and was told he'd never be able to play football again. Fortunately, his bone began to heal and by the start of his junior season, he was near 100 percent. During his senior season, Moats finished with 2,646 yards rushing at 9.2 yards per carry, including 33 touchdowns on his way to breaking the Bishop Lynch High School all-time rushing record (4782 yards).Despite his production, the big schools were scared away by Moats' size and he ended up at Louisiana Tech. In 2002, he saw action in ten games, and did most of his damage as a kick returner while backing up senior RB Joe Smith. The 2003 season was a breakout year for Moats, earning first team All-Western Athletic Conference honors for his 1,364 yards and 10 touchdowns. He also broke the 200-yard mark twice.As a junior in 2004, Moats became WAC Offensive Player of the Year and a semi-finalist for the Doak Walker Award (best running back). He set school records with 1,774 yards and 18 touchdowns. Moats broke 200 yards in five games, including 236 versus Fresno State, adding an 83-yard touchdown run in that game as well. Moats currently ranks second in school history with 3,176 rushing yards.StrengthsWhen watching him, you can see why Moats would choose to model his game after Barry Sanders. He has those same thick legs on a compact frame. Moats can change directions on a dime and accelerate past defenders. His quickness, balance and ability to cut are his best assets. Some questioned his long speed, but Moats answered that with a 4.46 40 at the combine. Moats shows good strength for his size and can power through tackles with his strong lower body. Moats is an asset in the passing game, showing good hands and a willingness to block. Scouts and fans alike love Moats for his great character. He's a humble young man that believes if you put yourself above people, you have farther to fall. The East-West Shrine Game sent an invitation to him, a rarity for underclassmen, and he had one of the better weeks of any player there. Moats is a competitive player, and never wants to come out of a game. So much so that he will sometimes hide injury and fatigue from his coaches.WeaknessesThe big knock on Moats is his size at 5-8, 210 pounds. That is good weight for his height, but he won't be able to get much bigger. His lack of size limits his ability to run inside with power. He'll have to start his career as a third-down back and kick returner until he can prove to be a feature back. Although Moats is a willing blocker, his size hurts his effectiveness.SummaryIt's hard to ignore Moats' production and explosiveness. He has a similar game to current Philadelphia Eagles RB Brian Westbrook. Both players are low to the ground runners, who can catch the ball and make things happen in the open field. Moats will most likely start his career as a role player, but could find himself in the starting lineup sooner rather than later. Moats will be a fan favorite for whatever team drafts him, which should come as early as round three.End of article.It is evident to anyone observant that EBF is doing two kind of compares:1) Who the player is built like and seemed similar to in college.2) Who he projects to be like, in a range, at the NFL level.As for good luck drafting Moats 5th- that was just a snarky comment. You are acting like a seventh grade boy trying to to seem smart, and just not pulling it off. Top 5 busts happen all the time. Moats was a first round pick in most dynasty drafts, he usually went between 9-12, near Eric Shelton. In the past few years- JJ Arrington, TJ Duckett, William Green, Deshaun Foster, Mike Williams, Charles Rogers etc.

 

[EBF]

I am going to bump Chris Johnson up here. It was a mistake and an oversight to have him so low. In reality, his draft stock is close to that of Felix Jones and he should probably be considered in the same range in FF drafts. I got a little too carried away with the "scat back" thing without looking at the rare athletic gifts he brings to the table.

More on Chris Johnson: He wasn't on my radar at all throughout most of the year, so I think I was inclined to dismiss him without giving him much thought. That was a mistake. Now that I've stepped back and considered his prospects objectively, I think he is comparable in value to Felix Jones. This is a guy who will go in the top 45 picks in April and has a fairly elite set of physical skills. Couple that with good production and a decent score on the "eyeball test" and you have an intriguing RB prospect who will almost certainly come of the board in the first 8 picks in most rookie drafts. So while I still have some issues with his lack of power, my initial ranking of 23 was criminally bad. He is worth a look inside the top 10 due to his upside. He isn't a sure thing, but who is?Other than that, I don't see any major faults with my rankings. Thanks to westbrook36 for pointing this one out.

I was going to say something about Chris Johnson. I think in PPR you can make an argument for him at #4. I see him having a similar career as Reggie Bush (when used correctly); although Johnson seems to be just as good of receiver and better running between the tackles. If Johnson would have been playing behind that USC line (that Bush ran behind), there is no doubt that he would be one of the top 4 in my mind.I think you are also undervaluing Matt Forte. You say you like RB's that bring the pain and Forte can do that. He's got good size, decent hands, and he moves pretty well. He impressed me at the Senior Bowl and his stock has done nothing but rise. If he gets draft by a team like the Bears (rumors of private workout), I am sure he will shoot up draft boards.You obvioulsy value the WR's in this draft much more than me. I just don't see any can't miss prospects and would rather take a shotgun approach with the 2nd/3rd round guys than draft one of the questionable wideouts in the 1st altogether. I agree that there isn't anybody that I would feel like I missed out on in this draft if somebody else drafted them. I'm drafting at 1.6 and I have an idea of who I want, but the other guys could just as easily end up having better careers. Overall these are as good as any...thanks for sharing!!

I wouldn't go as far as comparing Chris Johnson to Reggie Bush, but he's definitely an interesting prospect. He's one of the most athletic backs available this year. I have no doubt that Forte will be a top 15 pick in most FF leagues. If you go back and search, you'll see that I've praised him in the past. I think he's a solid player, but I don't think he's freakish enough to be a long-term starter at the next level. I see him as a backup, so that's how I'm valuing him in my rankings. That said, I would consider moving him up 10-12 spots if he landed in a situation that gave him an immediate starting opportunity.

 

[EBF]

That's just because I'm impressed with Sweed's intangibles (very very) very much, and not so impressed with Kelly's. Kelly is a little mysterious this off-season and that bugs me especially with squirrelly WRs...

I'm not the only one a little bugged by Kelly this offseason.

It's definitely a situation worth monitoring. Sometimes the first signs of a headcase become apparent in the pre-draft process. Remember the failed Charles Rogers piss test? I'll consider moving Kelly down if this situation escalates. It's probably making mountains out of mole hills at this point.

 

[tribecalledjeff]

It's rare that you have a player who's a perfect mirror image of a current NFL player. So typically what you do is you throw out a couple names of comparable players to give the readers an overall picture of what to expect from a given prospect. You could say Frank Gore and Ryan Moats represent the range of Ray Rice's potential in the NFL.

I think most people understand the comparisons and find them helpful. I'm sorry if you don't.

Enjoy your fantasy football team by drafting Ryan Moats 5th overall.

Moats is a very valid low end compare. Look at this predraft write up of Moats:Ryan Moats, RB, Louisiana Tech Bulldogs

April 20, 2005

16:00:00

By Brian Dean

Edited by John Melillo

The 2005 NFL Draft is becoming famously deep at the running back position. For a good portion of the draft season, Louisiana Tech RB Ryan Moats was flying below radar. Lately, though, he has been getting some well-deserved attention. Moats' idol is former Detroit Lions RB Barry Sanders - both in life and on the football field. Like his idol, Moats is wise beyond his years, is a high character individual and very difficult to tackle. His decision to come out early was based on the belief that he would be overlooked for his height no matter how well he might do as a senior. Instead, Moats wanted to spend that year earning a spot in the NFL.

As a high school sophomore, Moats suffered a leg injury, initially believed to be a deep thigh bruise. It turned out to be much worse. He had a staph infection that damaged his femur bone. He went threw multiple surgeries and was told he'd never be able to play football again. Fortunately, his bone began to heal and by the start of his junior season, he was near 100 percent. During his senior season, Moats finished with 2,646 yards rushing at 9.2 yards per carry, including 33 touchdowns on his way to breaking the Bishop Lynch High School all-time rushing record (4782 yards).

Despite his production, the big schools were scared away by Moats' size and he ended up at Louisiana Tech. In 2002, he saw action in ten games, and did most of his damage as a kick returner while backing up senior RB Joe Smith. The 2003 season was a breakout year for Moats, earning first team All-Western Athletic Conference honors for his 1,364 yards and 10 touchdowns. He also broke the 200-yard mark twice.

As a junior in 2004, Moats became WAC Offensive Player of the Year and a semi-finalist for the Doak Walker Award (best running back). He set school records with 1,774 yards and 18 touchdowns. Moats broke 200 yards in five games, including 236 versus Fresno State, adding an 83-yard touchdown run in that game as well. Moats currently ranks second in school history with 3,176 rushing yards.

Strengths

When watching him, you can see why Moats would choose to model his game after Barry Sanders. He has those same thick legs on a compact frame. Moats can change directions on a dime and accelerate past defenders. His quickness, balance and ability to cut are his best assets. Some questioned his long speed, but Moats answered that with a 4.46 40 at the combine. Moats shows good strength for his size and can power through tackles with his strong lower body. Moats is an asset in the passing game, showing good hands and a willingness to block. Scouts and fans alike love Moats for his great character. He's a humble young man that believes if you put yourself above people, you have farther to fall. The East-West Shrine Game sent an invitation to him, a rarity for underclassmen, and he had one of the better weeks of any player there. Moats is a competitive player, and never wants to come out of a game. So much so that he will sometimes hide injury and fatigue from his coaches.

Weaknesses

The big knock on Moats is his size at 5-8, 210 pounds. That is good weight for his height, but he won't be able to get much bigger. His lack of size limits his ability to run inside with power. He'll have to start his career as a third-down back and kick returner until he can prove to be a feature back. Although Moats is a willing blocker, his size hurts his effectiveness.

Summary

It's hard to ignore Moats' production and explosiveness. He has a similar game to current Philadelphia Eagles RB Brian Westbrook. Both players are low to the ground runners, who can catch the ball and make things happen in the open field. Moats will most likely start his career as a role player, but could find himself in the starting lineup sooner rather than later. Moats will be a fan favorite for whatever team drafts him, which should come as early as round three.

End of article.

It is evident to anyone observant that EBF is doing two kind of compares:

1) Who the player is built like and seemed similar to in college.

2) Who he projects to be like, in a range, at the NFL level.

As for good luck drafting Moats 5th- that was just a snarky comment. You are acting like a seventh grade boy trying to to seem smart, and just not pulling it off. Top 5 busts happen all the time. Moats was a first round pick in most dynasty drafts, he usually went between 9-12, near Eric Shelton. In the past few years- JJ Arrington, TJ Duckett, William Green, Deshaun Foster, Mike Williams, Charles Rogers etc.

I was thinking the same. JP's attitude in this thread reeks of insecurity. Why the hate? You are both great posters, I enjoy reading both of your thoughts. Jeff, you don't have to prove anything to anybody. Keep the threads positive and constructive.

 

[Maroney=Speed]

It's rare that you have a player who's a perfect mirror image of a current NFL player. So typically what you do is you throw out a couple names of comparable players to give the readers an overall picture of what to expect from a given prospect. You could say Frank Gore and Ryan Moats represent the range of Ray Rice's potential in the NFL.

I think most people understand the comparisons and find them helpful. I'm sorry if you don't.

Enjoy your fantasy football team by drafting Ryan Moats 5th overall.

Moats is a very valid low end compare. Look at this predraft write up of Moats:Ryan Moats, RB, Louisiana Tech Bulldogs

April 20, 2005

16:00:00

By Brian Dean

Edited by John Melillo

The 2005 NFL Draft is becoming famously deep at the running back position. For a good portion of the draft season, Louisiana Tech RB Ryan Moats was flying below radar. Lately, though, he has been getting some well-deserved attention. Moats' idol is former Detroit Lions RB Barry Sanders - both in life and on the football field. Like his idol, Moats is wise beyond his years, is a high character individual and very difficult to tackle. His decision to come out early was based on the belief that he would be overlooked for his height no matter how well he might do as a senior. Instead, Moats wanted to spend that year earning a spot in the NFL.

As a high school sophomore, Moats suffered a leg injury, initially believed to be a deep thigh bruise. It turned out to be much worse. He had a staph infection that damaged his femur bone. He went threw multiple surgeries and was told he'd never be able to play football again. Fortunately, his bone began to heal and by the start of his junior season, he was near 100 percent. During his senior season, Moats finished with 2,646 yards rushing at 9.2 yards per carry, including 33 touchdowns on his way to breaking the Bishop Lynch High School all-time rushing record (4782 yards).

Despite his production, the big schools were scared away by Moats' size and he ended up at Louisiana Tech. In 2002, he saw action in ten games, and did most of his damage as a kick returner while backing up senior RB Joe Smith. The 2003 season was a breakout year for Moats, earning first team All-Western Athletic Conference honors for his 1,364 yards and 10 touchdowns. He also broke the 200-yard mark twice.

As a junior in 2004, Moats became WAC Offensive Player of the Year and a semi-finalist for the Doak Walker Award (best running back). He set school records with 1,774 yards and 18 touchdowns. Moats broke 200 yards in five games, including 236 versus Fresno State, adding an 83-yard touchdown run in that game as well. Moats currently ranks second in school history with 3,176 rushing yards.

Strengths

When watching him, you can see why Moats would choose to model his game after Barry Sanders. He has those same thick legs on a compact frame. Moats can change directions on a dime and accelerate past defenders. His quickness, balance and ability to cut are his best assets. Some questioned his long speed, but Moats answered that with a 4.46 40 at the combine. Moats shows good strength for his size and can power through tackles with his strong lower body. Moats is an asset in the passing game, showing good hands and a willingness to block. Scouts and fans alike love Moats for his great character. He's a humble young man that believes if you put yourself above people, you have farther to fall. The East-West Shrine Game sent an invitation to him, a rarity for underclassmen, and he had one of the better weeks of any player there. Moats is a competitive player, and never wants to come out of a game. So much so that he will sometimes hide injury and fatigue from his coaches.

Weaknesses

The big knock on Moats is his size at 5-8, 210 pounds. That is good weight for his height, but he won't be able to get much bigger. His lack of size limits his ability to run inside with power. He'll have to start his career as a third-down back and kick returner until he can prove to be a feature back. Although Moats is a willing blocker, his size hurts his effectiveness.

Summary

It's hard to ignore Moats' production and explosiveness. He has a similar game to current Philadelphia Eagles RB Brian Westbrook. Both players are low to the ground runners, who can catch the ball and make things happen in the open field. Moats will most likely start his career as a role player, but could find himself in the starting lineup sooner rather than later. Moats will be a fan favorite for whatever team drafts him, which should come as early as round three.

End of article.

It is evident to anyone observant that EBF is doing two kind of compares:

1) Who the player is built like and seemed similar to in college.

2) Who he projects to be like, in a range, at the NFL level.

As for good luck drafting Moats 5th- that was just a snarky comment. You are acting like a seventh grade boy trying to to seem smart, and just not pulling it off. Top 5 busts happen all the time. Moats was a first round pick in most dynasty drafts, he usually went between 9-12, near Eric Shelton. In the past few years- JJ Arrington, TJ Duckett, William Green, Deshaun Foster, Mike Williams, Charles Rogers etc.

I was thinking the same. JP's attitude in this thread reeks of insecurity. Why the hate? You are both great posters, I enjoy reading both of your thoughts. Jeff, you don't have to prove anything to anybody. Keep the threads positive and constructive.

I think JP needs a TO. Not sure I get Jeff's tude the last couple of days around here?

Great job EBF, keep them coming.

 

[identikit]

 

[Riffraff]

Excellent read.

 

[JAA]

Im very surprised to see Brohm so low. Brohm is going to be an everyday starter in the NFL

 

[EBF]

Im very surprised to see Brohm so low. Brohm is going to be an everyday starter in the NFL

You can justify picking him as high as 10-15. Like I said, I'm not a big fan of using early rookie picks on passers. While it's true that first round QBs tend to hold decent value until they flop, they have a low upside unless they hit huge and they bust at a very high rate. Consider the list of recent first round QBs:Vince YoungMatt LeinartJay CutlerAlex SmithAaron RodgersJason CampbellEli ManningPhilip RiversBen RoethlisbergerJP LosmanCarson PalmerByron LeftwichKyle BollerRex GrossmanDavid CarrJoey HarringtonPatrick RamseyMichael VickChad PenningtonTim CouchDonovan McNabbAkili SmithDaunte CulpepperCade McNown How many of these guys are valuable FF commodities?Culpepper, McNabb, Vick, and Palmer have all been top 50 type players at one point or another. You could argue that Roethlisberger, Manning, Cutler, Rivers, and VY have also knocked on that door. But in general, this is a very mixed bag. A lot of these guys are worthless and most of the guys who turned out to be pretty good aren't worth that much. QB has the highest bust rate and the lowest upside of any position (except for maybe TE, where the upside is also minimal). So unless you're in league weighted heavily towards passing stats, there generally isn't much incentive to take a chance on one of these guys when you can grab a good receiver or RB instead. If you're looking for a QB in your rookie draft then you're almost always better off trading a pick straight up for a player who has already shown that he can perform. You could probably get Garrard, Cutler, or Schaub in a trade for a mid-late first round rookie pick. That makes more sense than taking Ryan or Brohm and hoping he pans out.

 

[gianmarco]

Im very surprised to see Brohm so low. Brohm is going to be an everyday starter in the NFL

You can justify picking him as high as 10-15. Like I said, I'm not a big fan of using early rookie picks on passers. While it's true that first round QBs tend to hold decent value until they flop, they have a low upside unless they hit huge and they bust at a very high rate. Consider the list of recent first round QBs:Vince YoungMatt LeinartJay CutlerAlex SmithAaron RodgersJason CampbellEli ManningPhilip RiversBen RoethlisbergerJP LosmanCarson PalmerByron LeftwichKyle BollerRex GrossmanDavid CarrJoey HarringtonPatrick RamseyMichael VickChad PenningtonTim CouchDonovan McNabbAkili SmithDaunte CulpepperCade McNown How many of these guys are valuable FF commodities?Culpepper, McNabb, Vick, and Palmer have all been top 50 type players at one point or another. You could argue that Roethlisberger, Manning, Cutler, Rivers, and VY have also knocked on that door. But in general, this is a very mixed bag. A lot of these guys are worthless and most of the guys who turned out to be pretty good aren't worth that much. QB has the highest bust rate and the lowest upside of any position (except for maybe TE, where the upside is also minimal). So unless you're in league weighted heavily towards passing stats, there generally isn't much incentive to take a chance on one of these guys when you can grab a good receiver or RB instead. If you're looking for a QB in your rookie draft then you're almost always better off trading a pick straight up for a player who has already shown that he can perform. You could probably get Garrard, Cutler, or Schaub in a trade for a mid-late first round rookie pick. That makes more sense than taking Ryan or Brohm and hoping he pans out.

:(

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Im very surprised to see Brohm so low. Brohm is going to be an everyday starter in the NFL

You can justify picking him as high as 10-15. Like I said, I'm not a big fan of using early rookie picks on passers. While it's true that first round QBs tend to hold decent value until they flop, they have a low upside unless they hit huge and they bust at a very high rate. Consider the list of recent first round QBs:Vince YoungMatt LeinartJay CutlerAlex SmithAaron RodgersJason CampbellEli ManningPhilip RiversBen RoethlisbergerJP LosmanCarson PalmerByron LeftwichKyle BollerRex GrossmanDavid CarrJoey HarringtonPatrick RamseyMichael VickChad PenningtonTim CouchDonovan McNabbAkili SmithDaunte CulpepperCade McNown How many of these guys are valuable FF commodities?Culpepper, McNabb, Vick, and Palmer have all been top 50 type players at one point or another. You could argue that Roethlisberger, Manning, Cutler, Rivers, and VY have also knocked on that door. But in general, this is a very mixed bag. A lot of these guys are worthless and most of the guys who turned out to be pretty good aren't worth that much. QB has the highest bust rate and the lowest upside of any position (except for maybe TE, where the upside is also minimal). So unless you're in league weighted heavily towards passing stats, there generally isn't much incentive to take a chance on one of these guys when you can grab a good receiver or RB instead. If you're looking for a QB in your rookie draft then you're almost always better off trading a pick straight up for a player who has already shown that he can perform. You could probably get Garrard, Cutler, or Schaub in a trade for a mid-late first round rookie pick. That makes more sense than taking Ryan or Brohm and hoping he pans out.

Traded the 1.11 for Rivers.

 

[ditka85]

That's just because I'm impressed with Sweed's intangibles (very very) very much, and not so impressed with Kelly's. Kelly is a little mysterious this off-season and that bugs me especially with squirrelly WRs...

I'm not the only one a little bugged by Kelly this offseason.

It's definitely a situation worth monitoring. Sometimes the first signs of a headcase become apparent in the pre-draft process. Remember the failed Charles Rogers piss test? I'll consider moving Kelly down if this situation escalates. It's probably making mountains out of mole hills at this point.

Here's a snippet regarding Kelly and his knees. Didn't know about this previously...

Malcolm Kelly, WR, Oklahoma. He was not able to work out at the combine or at Oklahoma's pro day because of a quadriceps injury, but his knees present a bigger problem. One has been reconstructed and another is arthritic. Kelly, once considered the highest-ranked receiver in the draft, now could have a problem passing some team's physical exams, and his draft stock could drop precipitously. Kelly is scheduled to work out April 9.

Link

 

[Chaos Commish]

That's just because I'm impressed with Sweed's intangibles (very very) very much, and not so impressed with Kelly's. Kelly is a little mysterious this off-season and that bugs me especially with squirrelly WRs...

I'm not the only one a little bugged by Kelly this offseason.

It's definitely a situation worth monitoring. Sometimes the first signs of a headcase become apparent in the pre-draft process. Remember the failed Charles Rogers piss test? I'll consider moving Kelly down if this situation escalates. It's probably making mountains out of mole hills at this point.

Here's a snippet regarding Kelly and his knees. Didn't know about this previously...

Malcolm Kelly, WR, Oklahoma. He was not able to work out at the combine or at Oklahoma's pro day because of a quadriceps injury, but his knees present a bigger problem. One has been reconstructed and another is arthritic. Kelly, once considered the highest-ranked receiver in the draft, now could have a problem passing some team's physical exams, and his draft stock could drop precipitously. Kelly is scheduled to work out April 9.

Link

He has an arthritic knee that hasn't been operated on, if I'm reading right. Strange. That generally occurs in older athletes who do not properly care for an injury. I wonder if Pompei is a little off and the reconstructed knee is also arthritic (I know of a few cases like that). Or maybe he needs another knee surgery. It may be mountains out of mole hills, but it's been a strange off-season for this kid.

 

[EBF]

That's just because I'm impressed with Sweed's intangibles (very very) very much, and not so impressed with Kelly's. Kelly is a little mysterious this off-season and that bugs me especially with squirrelly WRs...

I'm not the only one a little bugged by Kelly this offseason.

It's definitely a situation worth monitoring. Sometimes the first signs of a headcase become apparent in the pre-draft process. Remember the failed Charles Rogers piss test? I'll consider moving Kelly down if this situation escalates. It's probably making mountains out of mole hills at this point.

Here's a snippet regarding Kelly and his knees. Didn't know about this previously...

Malcolm Kelly, WR, Oklahoma. He was not able to work out at the combine or at Oklahoma's pro day because of a quadriceps injury, but his knees present a bigger problem. One has been reconstructed and another is arthritic. Kelly, once considered the highest-ranked receiver in the draft, now could have a problem passing some team's physical exams, and his draft stock could drop precipitously. Kelly is scheduled to work out April 9.

Link

He has an arthritic knee that hasn't been operated on, if I'm reading right. Strange. That generally occurs in older athletes who do not properly care for an injury. I wonder if Pompei is a little off and the reconstructed knee is also arthritic (I know of a few cases like that). Or maybe he needs another knee surgery. It may be mountains out of mole hills, but it's been a strange off-season for this kid.

Yep. This is the time of the year when teams might spread nonsense to try to keep someone's stock down, but if he plummets on draft day then that's a sign that this could be a significant issue. I'll offer the same advice I offered about the Stewart toe situation: wait and see. If these guys are drafted roughly where we expect them to be then there's probably nothing to worry about.

 

[ditka85]

That's just because I'm impressed with Sweed's intangibles (very very) very much, and not so impressed with Kelly's. Kelly is a little mysterious this off-season and that bugs me especially with squirrelly WRs...

I'm not the only one a little bugged by Kelly this offseason.

It's definitely a situation worth monitoring. Sometimes the first signs of a headcase become apparent in the pre-draft process. Remember the failed Charles Rogers piss test? I'll consider moving Kelly down if this situation escalates. It's probably making mountains out of mole hills at this point.

Here's a snippet regarding Kelly and his knees. Didn't know about this previously...

Malcolm Kelly, WR, Oklahoma. He was not able to work out at the combine or at Oklahoma's pro day because of a quadriceps injury, but his knees present a bigger problem. One has been reconstructed and another is arthritic. Kelly, once considered the highest-ranked receiver in the draft, now could have a problem passing some team's physical exams, and his draft stock could drop precipitously. Kelly is scheduled to work out April 9.

Link

He has an arthritic knee that hasn't been operated on, if I'm reading right. Strange. That generally occurs in older athletes who do not properly care for an injury. I wonder if Pompei is a little off and the reconstructed knee is also arthritic (I know of a few cases like that). Or maybe he needs another knee surgery. It may be mountains out of mole hills, but it's been a strange off-season for this kid.

Yep. This is the time of the year when teams might spread nonsense to try to keep someone's stock down, but if he plummets on draft day then that's a sign that this could be a significant issue. I'll offer the same advice I offered about the Stewart toe situation: wait and see. If these guys are drafted roughly where we expect them to be then there's probably nothing to worry about.

A little more digging came up with this from an OU Board. It appears Kelly had a scope, NOT recontructive surgery:

He didn't have his knee reconstructed. A torn meniscus and a very partially torn ligament from the Boise State game. For those of us that have had both scopes and reconstructions, there is a HUGE difference. Look at Lance Mitchell- that was a reconstruction. Was there ANY kind of drop off from '06 to '07? No, he actually got better. Malcolm could've practiced last Spring, but there was no point rushing it. Not sure about the arthritis, but the reconstruction bit is not true.

LinkCan't find anything regarding an arthritic knee.

 

[Chaos Commish]

That's just because I'm impressed with Sweed's intangibles (very very) very much, and not so impressed with Kelly's. Kelly is a little mysterious this off-season and that bugs me especially with squirrelly WRs...

I'm not the only one a little bugged by Kelly this offseason.

It's definitely a situation worth monitoring. Sometimes the first signs of a headcase become apparent in the pre-draft process. Remember the failed Charles Rogers piss test? I'll consider moving Kelly down if this situation escalates. It's probably making mountains out of mole hills at this point.

Here's a snippet regarding Kelly and his knees. Didn't know about this previously...

Malcolm Kelly, WR, Oklahoma. He was not able to work out at the combine or at Oklahoma's pro day because of a quadriceps injury, but his knees present a bigger problem. One has been reconstructed and another is arthritic. Kelly, once considered the highest-ranked receiver in the draft, now could have a problem passing some team's physical exams, and his draft stock could drop precipitously. Kelly is scheduled to work out April 9.

Link

He has an arthritic knee that hasn't been operated on, if I'm reading right. Strange. That generally occurs in older athletes who do not properly care for an injury. I wonder if Pompei is a little off and the reconstructed knee is also arthritic (I know of a few cases like that). Or maybe he needs another knee surgery. It may be mountains out of mole hills, but it's been a strange off-season for this kid.

Yep. This is the time of the year when teams might spread nonsense to try to keep someone's stock down, but if he plummets on draft day then that's a sign that this could be a significant issue. I'll offer the same advice I offered about the Stewart toe situation: wait and see. If these guys are drafted roughly where we expect them to be then there's probably nothing to worry about.

A little more digging came up with this from an OU Board. It appears Kelly had a scope, NOT recontructive surgery:

He didn't have his knee reconstructed. A torn meniscus and a very partially torn ligament from the Boise State game. For those of us that have had both scopes and reconstructions, there is a HUGE difference. Look at Lance Mitchell- that was a reconstruction. Was there ANY kind of drop off from '06 to '07? No, he actually got better. Malcolm could've practiced last Spring, but there was no point rushing it. Not sure about the arthritis, but the reconstruction bit is not true.

LinkCan't find anything regarding an arthritic knee.

Of course EBF is right and we need to wait for the draft, but that's no fun. I did some digging too. One report from a forum based on an interview on a radio station claims Kelly says the reconstruction was in the 6th grade. Another says there never was a reconstruction, he tore some cartilage in the Fiesta Bowl a couple years ago, was scoped, missed spring practice and recovered nicely. The arthritis thing sounds like smoke. His stock is probably sky-rocketing in war rooms so someone leaked this junk to Pompei who ran with the bait. I'd just like to see him run a 40 and do some drills.

 

[Maroney=Speed]

That's just because I'm impressed with Sweed's intangibles (very very) very much, and not so impressed with Kelly's. Kelly is a little mysterious this off-season and that bugs me especially with squirrelly WRs...

I'm not the only one a little bugged by Kelly this offseason.

It's definitely a situation worth monitoring. Sometimes the first signs of a headcase become apparent in the pre-draft process. Remember the failed Charles Rogers piss test? I'll consider moving Kelly down if this situation escalates. It's probably making mountains out of mole hills at this point.

Here's a snippet regarding Kelly and his knees. Didn't know about this previously...

Malcolm Kelly, WR, Oklahoma. He was not able to work out at the combine or at Oklahoma's pro day because of a quadriceps injury, but his knees present a bigger problem. One has been reconstructed and another is arthritic. Kelly, once considered the highest-ranked receiver in the draft, now could have a problem passing some team's physical exams, and his draft stock could drop precipitously. Kelly is scheduled to work out April 9.

Link

He has an arthritic knee that hasn't been operated on, if I'm reading right. Strange. That generally occurs in older athletes who do not properly care for an injury. I wonder if Pompei is a little off and the reconstructed knee is also arthritic (I know of a few cases like that). Or maybe he needs another knee surgery. It may be mountains out of mole hills, but it's been a strange off-season for this kid.

Yep. This is the time of the year when teams might spread nonsense to try to keep someone's stock down, but if he plummets on draft day then that's a sign that this could be a significant issue. I'll offer the same advice I offered about the Stewart toe situation: wait and see. If these guys are drafted roughly where we expect them to be then there's probably nothing to worry about.

A little more digging came up with this from an OU Board. It appears Kelly had a scope, NOT recontructive surgery:

He didn't have his knee reconstructed. A torn meniscus and a very partially torn ligament from the Boise State game. For those of us that have had both scopes and reconstructions, there is a HUGE difference. Look at Lance Mitchell- that was a reconstruction. Was there ANY kind of drop off from '06 to '07? No, he actually got better. Malcolm could've practiced last Spring, but there was no point rushing it. Not sure about the arthritis, but the reconstruction bit is not true.

LinkCan't find anything regarding an arthritic knee.

Of course EBF is right and we need to wait for the draft, but that's no fun. I did some digging too. One report from a forum based on an interview on a radio station claims Kelly says the reconstruction was in the 6th grade. Another says there never was a reconstruction, he tore some cartilage in the Fiesta Bowl a couple years ago, was scoped, missed spring practice and recovered nicely. The arthritis thing sounds like smoke. His stock is probably sky-rocketing in war rooms so someone leaked this junk to Pompei who ran with the bait. I'd just like to see him run a 40 and do some drills.

Why would His 40 time matter? To make sure He's ok?Fine, I guess that would help.

But as I said months ago, when no one had Kelly at #1 on there board,

this guy can flat out play. Watch tapes of Him and see for yourself.

Best WR in this class by FAR. Not that theres a ton of great WR's in this class.

On Brohm, He's a system QB only. So not sure why He's high on everyone's list?

I do hear He's moving up on NFL boards, which is good for Me.

So I'm hoping that Brohm is picked in the 1st round of rook drafts.

 

[rabidfireweasel]

Why would His 40 time matter? To make sure He's ok?Fine, I guess that would help.But as I said months ago, when no one had Kelly at #1 on there board,this guy can flat out play. Watch tapes of Him and see for yourself.Best WR in this class by FAR. Not that theres a ton of great WR's in this class.

Slow down.Lots of people had Kelly high on their boards since last year.To recap:Stewart will be a FB in the NFL- bold prediction that no one else is making.Kelly your number one wr- not so bold.

 

[Maroney=Speed]

Why would His 40 time matter? To make sure He's ok?Fine, I guess that would help.But as I said months ago, when no one had Kelly at #1 on there board,this guy can flat out play. Watch tapes of Him and see for yourself.Best WR in this class by FAR. Not that theres a ton of great WR's in this class.

Slow down.Lots of people had Kelly high on their boards since last year.To recap:Stewart will be a FB in the NFL- bold prediction that no one else is making.Kelly your number one wr- not so bold.

Stewart will be a 2nd round pick in the NFL. Sweed and Brohm will not make it at the next level.Could be wrong on Brohm if NFL teams are moving Him up, NFL teams can't be wrong.

 

[aposulli]

Haven't had much time recently to read the stuff on the board here, but this is the best analysis I've seen so far of the Rooks.

 

[aposulli]

Why would His 40 time matter? To make sure He's ok?

Fine, I guess that would help.

But as I said months ago, when no one had Kelly at #1 on there board,

this guy can flat out play. Watch tapes of Him and see for yourself.

Best WR in this class by FAR. Not that theres a ton of great WR's in this class.

Slow down.Lots of people had Kelly high on their boards since last year.

To recap:

Stewart will be a FB in the NFL- bold prediction that no one else is making.

Kelly your number one wr- not so bold.

Maroney=Speed down?If your definition of "fullback" is to be a blocker first and a 2-3 touch-per-game guy, then this claim is utterly ridiculous.

First of all, the true NFL fullback is nearly a dead position. Guys like Lorenzo Neal and Mack Strong who made careers out of lead blocking just aren't around anymore, and if they are, NFL teams do not feel as though the fullback is an integral part of an offense.

Nowadays, teh fullbacks I'm seeing are rostered for their versatility (blocking, special teams, and sometimes pass-catching). And these guys just aren't fast, explosive, or natural enough runners to be true tailbacks. Stewart's athleticism dwarfs that of any player in the NFL currently listed at "FB."

 

[happy_donut]

Why would His 40 time matter? To make sure He's ok?

Fine, I guess that would help.

But as I said months ago, when no one had Kelly at #1 on there board,

this guy can flat out play. Watch tapes of Him and see for yourself.

Best WR in this class by FAR. Not that theres a ton of great WR's in this class.

Slow down.Lots of people had Kelly high on their boards since last year.

To recap:

Stewart will be a FB in the NFL- bold prediction that no one else is making.

Kelly your number one wr- not so bold.

Maroney=Speed down?If your definition of "fullback" is to be a blocker first and a 2-3 touch-per-game guy, then this claim is utterly ridiculous.

First of all, the true NFL fullback is nearly a dead position. Guys like Lorenzo Neal and Mack Strong who made careers out of lead blocking just aren't around anymore, and if they are, NFL teams do not feel as though the fullback is an integral part of an offense.

Nowadays, teh fullbacks I'm seeing are rostered for their versatility (blocking, special teams, and sometimes pass-catching). And these guys just aren't fast, explosive, or natural enough runners to be true tailbacks. Stewart's athleticism dwarfs that of any player in the NFL currently listed at "FB."

sarcasm down?I don't think rabidfireweasle thinks Stewart will be a FB.

 

[aposulli]

Why would His 40 time matter? To make sure He's ok?

Fine, I guess that would help.

But as I said months ago, when no one had Kelly at #1 on there board,

this guy can flat out play. Watch tapes of Him and see for yourself.

Best WR in this class by FAR. Not that theres a ton of great WR's in this class.

Slow down.Lots of people had Kelly high on their boards since last year.

To recap:

Stewart will be a FB in the NFL- bold prediction that no one else is making.

Kelly your number one wr- not so bold.

Maroney=Speed down?If your definition of "fullback" is to be a blocker first and a 2-3 touch-per-game guy, then this claim is utterly ridiculous.

First of all, the true NFL fullback is nearly a dead position. Guys like Lorenzo Neal and Mack Strong who made careers out of lead blocking just aren't around anymore, and if they are, NFL teams do not feel as though the fullback is an integral part of an offense.

Nowadays, teh fullbacks I'm seeing are rostered for their versatility (blocking, special teams, and sometimes pass-catching). And these guys just aren't fast, explosive, or natural enough runners to be true tailbacks. Stewart's athleticism dwarfs that of any player in the NFL currently listed at "FB."

sarcasm down?I don't think rabidfireweasle thinks Stewart will be a FB.

Maybe I missed it, but at least one other person has predicted it.

 

[rabidfireweasel]

Why would His 40 time matter? To make sure He's ok?

Fine, I guess that would help.

But as I said months ago, when no one had Kelly at #1 on there board,

this guy can flat out play. Watch tapes of Him and see for yourself.

Best WR in this class by FAR. Not that theres a ton of great WR's in this class.

Slow down.Lots of people had Kelly high on their boards since last year.

To recap:

Stewart will be a FB in the NFL- bold prediction that no one else is making.

Kelly your number one wr- not so bold.

Maroney=Speed down?

Edit-read the nested quote.was quoting Maroney=Speed.

He was posting that no one had Kelly high on their board months ago. I said that was not true.

I was saying that he was the only one who was saying "Stewart will be a fullback." I have been saying that I like Stewart in several threads.

Make sense?

 

[rabidfireweasel]

Why would His 40 time matter? To make sure He's ok?

Fine, I guess that would help.

But as I said months ago, when no one had Kelly at #1 on there board,

this guy can flat out play. Watch tapes of Him and see for yourself.

Best WR in this class by FAR. Not that theres a ton of great WR's in this class.

Slow down.Lots of people had Kelly high on their boards since last year.

To recap:

Stewart will be a FB in the NFL- bold prediction that no one else is making.

Kelly your number one wr- not so bold.

Maroney=Speed down?If your definition of "fullback" is to be a blocker first and a 2-3 touch-per-game guy, then this claim is utterly ridiculous.

First of all, the true NFL fullback is nearly a dead position. Guys like Lorenzo Neal and Mack Strong who made careers out of lead blocking just aren't around anymore, and if they are, NFL teams do not feel as though the fullback is an integral part of an offense.

Nowadays, teh fullbacks I'm seeing are rostered for their versatility (blocking, special teams, and sometimes pass-catching). And these guys just aren't fast, explosive, or natural enough runners to be true tailbacks. Stewart's athleticism dwarfs that of any player in the NFL currently listed at "FB."

sarcasm down?I don't think rabidfireweasle thinks Stewart will be a FB.

You are correct.

 

[BuckeyeArt]

Bubble Boys

QB Brian Brohm, Louisville

QB Chad Henne, Michigan

RB Ryan Torain, Arizona State

RB Steve Slaton, West Virginia

Just read this on DraftScout about Torain:

Needs more than several reps to retain plays and might struggle digesting a complicated playbook (Wonderlic score was a 3, answering 15 of 50 questions)...

 

[EBF]

Uh...wow.

Torain is an interesting project. Could be a nice power back. I probably have him overrated here though. He's more of a top 35-40 guy than a top 25 guy.

 

[Maroney=Speed]

Uh...wow.Torain is an interesting project. Could be a nice power back. I probably have him overrated here though. He's more of a top 35-40 guy than a top 25 guy.

EBF, can you please explain to Ro3384 how you can have rankings before the NFL Draft? Thanks. Keep the rankings coming. Great Job EBF.

 

[basenjiwarrior]

It's rare that you have a player who's a perfect mirror image of a current NFL player. So typically what you do is you throw out a couple names of comparable players to give the readers an overall picture of what to expect from a given prospect. You could say Frank Gore and Ryan Moats represent the range of Ray Rice's potential in the NFL. I think most people understand the comparisons and find them helpful. I'm sorry if you don't.

Enjoy your fantasy football team by drafting Ryan Moats 5th overall.

Wow. I sense a little envy here. Thanks EBF, your analysis is top notch as always!

 

[toastedgnome]

Great job as always EBF!

 

[switz]

Uh...wow.

Torain is an interesting project. Could be a nice power back. I probably have him overrated here though. He's more of a top 35-40 guy than a top 25 guy.

EBF, can you please explain to Ro3384 how you can have rankings before the NFL Draft? Thanks. Keep the rankings coming. Great Job EBF.

I'm not EBF, but I tihnk most NFL teams also have player rankings BEFORE the NFL draft... I would think good FFLers use some of the same methods in setting up rankings before the NFL draft, and then just vary them SLIGHTLY after the draft.If you wait until after the draft to do rankings at all, you are much too clouded by where they were drafted than by their actual talent.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Uh...wow.

Torain is an interesting project. Could be a nice power back. I probably have him overrated here though. He's more of a top 35-40 guy than a top 25 guy.

EBF, can you please explain to Ro3384 how you can have rankings before the NFL Draft? Thanks. Keep the rankings coming. Great Job EBF.

I'm not EBF, but I tihnk most NFL teams also have player rankings BEFORE the NFL draft... I would think good FFLers use some of the same methods in setting up rankings before the NFL draft, and then just vary them SLIGHTLY after the draft.If you wait until after the draft to do rankings at all, you are much too clouded by where they were drafted than by their actual talent.

Drafting Eric Shelton at 1.05 will make you listen to switz here.

 

[msommer]

Bubble Boys

QB Brian Brohm, Louisville

QB Chad Henne, Michigan

RB Ryan Torain, Arizona State

RB Steve Slaton, West Virginia

Just read this on DraftScout about Torain:

Needs more than several reps to retain plays and might struggle digesting a complicated playbook (Wonderlic score was a 3, answering 15 of 50 questions)...

3? A wet sunday newspaper has a higher IQ

 

[Chaos Commish]

That's just because I'm impressed with Sweed's intangibles (very very) very much, and not so impressed with Kelly's. Kelly is a little mysterious this off-season and that bugs me especially with squirrelly WRs...

I'm not the only one a little bugged by Kelly this offseason.

It's definitely a situation worth monitoring. Sometimes the first signs of a headcase become apparent in the pre-draft process. Remember the failed Charles Rogers piss test? I'll consider moving Kelly down if this situation escalates. It's probably making mountains out of mole hills at this point.

Here's a snippet regarding Kelly and his knees. Didn't know about this previously...

Malcolm Kelly, WR, Oklahoma. He was not able to work out at the combine or at Oklahoma's pro day because of a quadriceps injury, but his knees present a bigger problem. One has been reconstructed and another is arthritic. Kelly, once considered the highest-ranked receiver in the draft, now could have a problem passing some team's physical exams, and his draft stock could drop precipitously. Kelly is scheduled to work out April 9.

Link

He has an arthritic knee that hasn't been operated on, if I'm reading right. Strange. That generally occurs in older athletes who do not properly care for an injury. I wonder if Pompei is a little off and the reconstructed knee is also arthritic (I know of a few cases like that). Or maybe he needs another knee surgery. It may be mountains out of mole hills, but it's been a strange off-season for this kid.

Yep. This is the time of the year when teams might spread nonsense to try to keep someone's stock down, but if he plummets on draft day then that's a sign that this could be a significant issue. I'll offer the same advice I offered about the Stewart toe situation: wait and see. If these guys are drafted roughly where we expect them to be then there's probably nothing to worry about.

A little more digging came up with this from an OU Board. It appears Kelly had a scope, NOT recontructive surgery:

He didn't have his knee reconstructed. A torn meniscus and a very partially torn ligament from the Boise State game. For those of us that have had both scopes and reconstructions, there is a HUGE difference. Look at Lance Mitchell- that was a reconstruction. Was there ANY kind of drop off from '06 to '07? No, he actually got better. Malcolm could've practiced last Spring, but there was no point rushing it. Not sure about the arthritis, but the reconstruction bit is not true.

LinkCan't find anything regarding an arthritic knee.

Mayock is apparently running hard with this story. I guess he reported that some teams are removing Kelly from their boards because of his knees. Mayock now sees Kelly as a round two pick for a team willing to take the risk. He's scheduled to run April 9th.

 

[EBF]

That's just because I'm impressed with Sweed's intangibles (very very) very much, and not so impressed with Kelly's. Kelly is a little mysterious this off-season and that bugs me especially with squirrelly WRs...

I'm not the only one a little bugged by Kelly this offseason.

It's definitely a situation worth monitoring. Sometimes the first signs of a headcase become apparent in the pre-draft process. Remember the failed Charles Rogers piss test? I'll consider moving Kelly down if this situation escalates. It's probably making mountains out of mole hills at this point.

Here's a snippet regarding Kelly and his knees. Didn't know about this previously...

Malcolm Kelly, WR, Oklahoma. He was not able to work out at the combine or at Oklahoma's pro day because of a quadriceps injury, but his knees present a bigger problem. One has been reconstructed and another is arthritic. Kelly, once considered the highest-ranked receiver in the draft, now could have a problem passing some team's physical exams, and his draft stock could drop precipitously. Kelly is scheduled to work out April 9.

Link

He has an arthritic knee that hasn't been operated on, if I'm reading right. Strange. That generally occurs in older athletes who do not properly care for an injury. I wonder if Pompei is a little off and the reconstructed knee is also arthritic (I know of a few cases like that). Or maybe he needs another knee surgery. It may be mountains out of mole hills, but it's been a strange off-season for this kid.

Yep. This is the time of the year when teams might spread nonsense to try to keep someone's stock down, but if he plummets on draft day then that's a sign that this could be a significant issue. I'll offer the same advice I offered about the Stewart toe situation: wait and see. If these guys are drafted roughly where we expect them to be then there's probably nothing to worry about.

A little more digging came up with this from an OU Board. It appears Kelly had a scope, NOT recontructive surgery:

He didn't have his knee reconstructed. A torn meniscus and a very partially torn ligament from the Boise State game. For those of us that have had both scopes and reconstructions, there is a HUGE difference. Look at Lance Mitchell- that was a reconstruction. Was there ANY kind of drop off from '06 to '07? No, he actually got better. Malcolm could've practiced last Spring, but there was no point rushing it. Not sure about the arthritis, but the reconstruction bit is not true.

LinkCan't find anything regarding an arthritic knee.

Mayock is apparently running hard with this story. I guess he reported that some teams are removing Kelly from their boards because of his knees. Mayock now sees Kelly as a round two pick for a team willing to take the risk. He's scheduled to run April 9th.

Well that certainly changes things if it's true. He won't be so high on my board if the medical issue is legitimate.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Mayock is apparently running hard with this story. I guess he reported that some teams are removing Kelly from their boards because of his knees. Mayock now sees Kelly as a round two pick for a team willing to take the risk. He's scheduled to run April 9th.

Well that certainly changes things if it's true. He won't be so high on my board if the medical issue is legitimate.

I like Mayock but this still smells fishy to me. I even read a report that said the quad injury in the bowl game was actually a knee injury. I watched this kid play plenty (mostly early in the season) and he has a ton of talent. I've gone from being skeptical in comparing him to others because he seemed to be rated too high, to hoping he's fine and tears it up. Be a shame if his knees are shot. There's some smoke here, I think.

 

[EBF]

Mayock is apparently running hard with this story. I guess he reported that some teams are removing Kelly from their boards because of his knees. Mayock now sees Kelly as a round two pick for a team willing to take the risk. He's scheduled to run April 9th.

Well that certainly changes things if it's true. He won't be so high on my board if the medical issue is legitimate.

I like Mayock but this still smells fishy to me. I even read a report that said the quad injury in the bowl game was actually a knee injury. I watched this kid play plenty (mostly early in the season) and he has a ton of talent. I've gone from being skeptical in comparing him to others because he seemed to be rated too high, to hoping he's fine and tears it up. Be a shame if his knees are shot. There's some smoke here, I think.

We'll know soon enough. I won't be worried about him or Stewart if they go in the top 30 picks.

 

[massraider]

 

[Rodeojones]

Found this video of Matt Forte at the NFL Combine. I was quite surprised to see how fluid he was for his size. Around the 1:00 mark he shows some excellent change of direction skills with the dummy bag drill.

I was impressed to say the least...

 

[EBF]

Found this video of Matt Forte at the NFL Combine. I was quite surprised to see how fluid he was for his size. Around the 1:00 mark he shows some excellent change of direction skills with the dummy bag drill.

I was impressed to say the least...

He's a good player. Go back and check some of my older posts and you'll see that I've been a fan for a while. I think he'll make a pro roster and contribute. However, I'll be surprised if he's a starter at the next level. He looks like a poor man's Deuce and I expect him to be a backup/change of pace guy. He and Choice aren't that different in terms of value though. These are two guys for whom situation will be extremely important. Put them behind a good young starter and they're worthless. Put them on a team like Houston or Detroit and they become very interesting options. We'll see what happens on draft day.

 

[Rodeojones]

Found this video of Matt Forte at the NFL Combine. I was quite surprised to see how fluid he was for his size. Around the 1:00 mark he shows some excellent change of direction skills with the dummy bag drill.

I was impressed to say the least...

He's a good player. Go back and check some of my older posts and you'll see that I've been a fan for a while. I think he'll make a pro roster and contribute. However, I'll be surprised if he's a starter at the next level. He looks like a poor man's Deuce and I expect him to be a backup/change of pace guy. He and Choice aren't that different in terms of value though. These are two guys for whom situation will be extremely important. Put them behind a good young starter and they're worthless. Put them on a team like Houston or Detroit and they become very interesting options. We'll see what happens on draft day.

My first thought was "isn't that the case with all the rookie RB's?" I mean any of the rookies drafted by a team with a player or players better then them will render them "worthless" to a point. Obviously injuries can change the landscape very quickly. Maybe your bolded statement is more an indictment on their level of talent and i'm reading too much into it.

 

[Maroney=Speed]

Found this video of Matt Forte at the NFL Combine. I was quite surprised to see how fluid he was for his size. Around the 1:00 mark he shows some excellent change of direction skills with the dummy bag drill.

I was impressed to say the least...

He's a good player. Go back and check some of my older posts and you'll see that I've been a fan for a while. I think he'll make a pro roster and contribute. However, I'll be surprised if he's a starter at the next level. He looks like a poor man's Deuce and I expect him to be a backup/change of pace guy. He and Choice aren't that different in terms of value though. These are two guys for whom situation will be extremely important. Put them behind a good young starter and they're worthless. Put them on a team like Houston or Detroit and they become very interesting options. We'll see what happens on draft day.

My first thought was "isn't that the case with all the rookie RB's?" I mean any of the rookies drafted by a team with a player or players better then them will render them "worthless" to a point. Obviously injuries can change the landscape very quickly. Maybe your bolded statement is more an indictment on their level of talent and i'm reading too much into it.

Nope you got it. EBF is saying Location(spot/place) were a lower ranked RB goes could make Him 1.03 off the board in a rook draft. Kind of what I have been saying. Who will this RB been this year? Choice? Forte? Rice? F.Jones? Charles? C.Johnson 1.03-1.05 in all rook drafts will be very interesting.

Now do you take a RB in a nice spot? Or stick with your pre-Nfl draft rankings? That is the question.

 

[EBF]

Found this video of Matt Forte at the NFL Combine. I was quite surprised to see how fluid he was for his size. Around the 1:00 mark he shows some excellent change of direction skills with the dummy bag drill.

I was impressed to say the least...

He's a good player. Go back and check some of my older posts and you'll see that I've been a fan for a while. I think he'll make a pro roster and contribute. However, I'll be surprised if he's a starter at the next level. He looks like a poor man's Deuce and I expect him to be a backup/change of pace guy. He and Choice aren't that different in terms of value though. These are two guys for whom situation will be extremely important. Put them behind a good young starter and they're worthless. Put them on a team like Houston or Detroit and they become very interesting options. We'll see what happens on draft day.

My first thought was "isn't that the case with all the rookie RB's?" I mean any of the rookies drafted by a team with a player or players better then them will render them "worthless" to a point. Obviously injuries can change the landscape very quickly. Maybe your bolded statement is more an indictment on their level of talent and i'm reading too much into it.

You can file runners into a few different categories:Starters - Guys who will always start in the NFL because they have elite talent level. They will not lose their job to a backup. If they do, they will be traded to a team and made a starter. They will only cease to be starters when age and injuries have eroded their skills. Examples: LT, Edge, Fred Taylor, Ahman, Thomas Jones, Jamal Lewis

Spot starters - Solid players with the talent to last in the NFL. They will not get cut, but they are not talented enough to demand a starting role and will generally only be a starter when their team has a crisis at the RB position. If they happen to land a starting job, they will be in constant danger of losing it to a draft pick or free agent. Examples: Ladell Betts, Justin Fargas, Chester Taylor, Chris Brown, Mewelde Moore, Earnest Graham

Scrubs - Guys who don't have the talent to stick in the league. They will squander any opportunities they receive and will usually be out of the league within 1-2 years of entering it. Examples: Brock Forsey, Artose Pinner, Jason Wright, Quincy Wilson

I see three surefire starters in this class. That's Mendenhall, Stewart, and McFadden. Those guys are destined to start for an NFL team and will play a heavy role in their team's offense. They have the talent level to last and will not be in danger of being replaced for at least a couple years. It's likely that at least one of these guys will be outed as a scrub or spot starters once his weaknesses are exposed by NFL defenders. But as of right now, they're starters.

The 2nd-4th round backs fall into the spot starters category. This is where I would put Choice and Forte. They're both good enough to play well and produce if given an opportunity, yet neither appears to have the talent necessary to lock down a long-term starting position. This is why situation is huge for these guys. Put one of them in a starting role and he's Domanick Davis. Put him behind a star and he's Mewelde Moore. A few of these lesser backs will eventually reveal themselves to be scrubs. One or two of them will probably emerge from this tier and reveal himself to be a star. Their value is far more fluid than that of the starters because they only have real value in an ideal situation, whereas a starter will always get a lot of playing time no matter what team he's on.

The 5th-7th round guys are probably scrubs, though there are some interesting sleepers out there and some guys who could break unexpectedly ala Ahmad Bradshaw or Selvin Young.

 

[Rodeojones]

Found this video of Matt Forte at the NFL Combine. I was quite surprised to see how fluid he was for his size. Around the 1:00 mark he shows some excellent change of direction skills with the dummy bag drill.

I was impressed to say the least...

He's a good player. Go back and check some of my older posts and you'll see that I've been a fan for a while. I think he'll make a pro roster and contribute. However, I'll be surprised if he's a starter at the next level. He looks like a poor man's Deuce and I expect him to be a backup/change of pace guy. He and Choice aren't that different in terms of value though. These are two guys for whom situation will be extremely important. Put them behind a good young starter and they're worthless. Put them on a team like Houston or Detroit and they become very interesting options. We'll see what happens on draft day.

My first thought was "isn't that the case with all the rookie RB's?" I mean any of the rookies drafted by a team with a player or players better then them will render them "worthless" to a point. Obviously injuries can change the landscape very quickly. Maybe your bolded statement is more an indictment on their level of talent and i'm reading too much into it.

You can file runners into a few different categories:Starters - Guys who will always start in the NFL because they have elite talent level. They will not lose their job to a backup. If they do, they will be traded to a team and made a starter. They will only cease to be starters when age and injuries have eroded their skills. Examples: LT, Edge, Fred Taylor, Ahman, Thomas Jones, Jamal Lewis

Spot starters - Solid players with the talent to last in the NFL. They will not get cut, but they are not talented enough to demand a starting role and will generally only be a starter when their team has a crisis at the RB position. If they happen to land a starting job, they will be in constant danger of losing it to a draft pick or free agent. Examples: Ladell Betts, Justin Fargas, Chester Taylor, Chris Brown, Mewelde Moore, Earnest Graham

Scrubs - Guys who don't have the talent to stick in the league. They will squander any opportunities they receive and will usually be out of the league within 1-2 years of entering it. Examples: Brock Forsey, Artose Pinner, Jason Wright, Quincy Wilson

I see three surefire starters in this class. That's Mendenhall, Stewart, and McFadden. Those guys are destined to start for an NFL team and will play a heavy role in their team's offense. They have the talent level to last and will not be in danger of being replaced for at least a couple years. It's likely that at least one of these guys will be outed as a scrub or spot starters once his weaknesses are exposed by NFL defenders. But as of right now, they're starters.

The 2nd-4th round backs fall into the spot starters category. This is where I would put Choice and Forte. They're both good enough to play well and produce if given an opportunity, yet neither appears to have the talent necessary to lock down a long-term starting position. This is why situation is huge for these guys. Put one of them in a starting role and he's Domanick Davis. Put him behind a star and he's Mewelde Moore. A few of these lesser backs will eventually reveal themselves to be scrubs. One or two of them will probably emerge from this tier and reveal himself to be a star. Their value is far more fluid than that of the starters because they only have real value in an ideal situation, whereas a starter will always get a lot of playing time no matter what team he's on.

The 5th-7th round guys are probably scrubs, though there are some interesting sleepers out there and some guys who could break unexpectedly ala Ahmad Bradshaw or Selvin Young.

Makes sense...thanks for the reply.