Galarraga perfect thru 8 for the Tigers (1 Viewer)

[GreatLakesMike]

In the span of two hours, this went from a tragedy in the real of sports, to a great triumph in real life. Its easy to harp on this, and rightfully so. That call was really horrendous. Galaraga had every right to blow up, melt down in the game and go after the ump afterwards. Joyce, if he denied any wrongdoing, would be followed a well worn path of past umpire denials. Neither of these happened. Galaraga dealt with this almost unfathomably crushing personal defeat like a man, went out, and finished the shut out. Joyce manned up, and that could have been the end of it. But the fact that Joyce went over to apologize and Galaraga accepted it really shows the measure of both men to me, and makes them both worthy guys to look up to. Any one of us, yes, even a FBG can mess up. Not all of us admit it, and probably even fewer are able to deal with such slights with the grace, honor and humanity Galaraga did. On the very damn night this happened, he accepted Joyce's apology and has gone a long way to diffusing what could have been an escalating situation.My perspective is, how can I be upset at Joyce if Galaraga has forgiven him? This isn't about the state of umpiring or replay or any of that, this is about two guys and the pitfalls and power of being human and really, how we can all be better to each other if we choose to be, both by admitting our wrongs and forgiving them. I'll think a lot fonder of Armando Galaraga as long as I live for his conduct in light of this than I ever would have thought about him perfect game. Great job

I agree with this. I give credit to Joyce for manning up and admitting he blew the call. He explained his reasoning, at the time, and then when he saw the replay he admited his mistake. I hope this goes a long way to having umps take some accountability for their mistakes, but I wont hold my breath waiting on Joe West or Angel Hernandez to admit that the screwed up in a game.There is a reason that Joyce has been regarded as one of the top umps in the game.

to both of you. Leyland, Galarraga, and Joyce all handled it like grown men.

 

[PIK95]

In the span of two hours, this went from a tragedy in the real of sports, to a great triumph in real life. Its easy to harp on this, and rightfully so. That call was really horrendous. Galaraga had every right to blow up, melt down in the game and go after the ump afterwards. Joyce, if he denied any wrongdoing, would be followed a well worn path of past umpire denials. Neither of these happened. Galaraga dealt with this almost unfathomably crushing personal defeat like a man, went out, and finished the shut out. Joyce manned up, and that could have been the end of it. But the fact that Joyce went over to apologize and Galaraga accepted it really shows the measure of both men to me, and makes them both worthy guys to look up to. Any one of us, yes, even a FBG can mess up. Not all of us admit it, and probably even fewer are able to deal with such slights with the grace, honor and humanity Galaraga did. On the very damn night this happened, he accepted Joyce's apology and has gone a long way to diffusing what could have been an escalating situation.My perspective is, how can I be upset at Joyce if Galaraga has forgiven him? This isn't about the state of umpiring or replay or any of that, this is about two guys and the pitfalls and power of being human and really, how we can all be better to each other if we choose to be, both by admitting our wrongs and forgiving them. I'll think a lot fonder of Armando Galaraga as long as I live for his conduct in light of this than I ever would have thought about him perfect game. Great job

I agree with this. I give credit to Joyce for manning up and admitting he blew the call. He explained his reasoning, at the time, and then when he saw the replay he admited his mistake. I hope this goes a long way to having umps take some accountability for their mistakes, but I wont hold my breath waiting on Joe West or Angel Hernandez to admit that the screwed up in a game.There is a reason that Joyce has been regarded as one of the top umps in the game.

to both of you. Leyland, Galarraga, and Joyce all handled it like grown men.

:X

 

[Tom Servo]

I think the case for 'bad precedent' is overstated. While there are unique features to this incident, it is not that big of a departure from past decisions. The first example, of course, is the pine tar incident. Of course the difference was that was rule interpretation while this was simply an error. But there are definitely some similarities.

Also, hits are changed to errors and vice versa routinely the day after a game. How is this that much different? It has no more impact on game outcome than a reversal of hit to error. It's different, but I certainly don't think it's groundbreaking.

The pine tar decision was a protest made within the rules (and was not a judgment call) -- so while the pine tar could have been protested, this call cannot be protested (and the 1985 World Series call simarily could not be protested).And hit and error judgments are in the scorekeeper discretion, so I don't think similar at all.

I don't the benefit makes up for the risk of future similar situations where teams may request a rule to be bent in their favor.

I fully understand the difference with the Brett situation. And I get that the TIgers can't protest this game as well. Those are differences. But my point is that there are similarities. In the pine tar game, they finished the game and then later changed the decision. Everyone acknowledges that Bud can change the decision here as well. It's different, but not completely.And why does the fact that the scorekeeper make the decision on hits and errors versus Selig on this make them not similar at all? Again, they may not be the same, but there are undeniably similarities.

And I can't stand the 'risk' or 'slippery slope' argument. There is only a slippery slope if MLB lets it happen. It's not a democracy. They decide how rules are applied. No offense, but that argument sounds just like every political debate where one side proposes no change because they fear 'what next' though there is little argument that it would be a good result.

It's like arguing against bazookas being outlawed because they may come for our butter knives next.

I don't think the arbitrary application of rules is a good system. If they change the call here, the line will not be a clear one. If another 1985 situation comes up, there will be demands for the Commish to change the outcome or step in as he did in this case.If they keep it the way that it was called on the field, then, even in another 1985 situation, you can tell anyone that we did not bend the rules in even the most favorable circumstances possible, so the call stands (and put focus where it should be--on getting MLB to add more replay).

Can you imagine the can of worms that would open? Besides, how do you think the kid will feel if he gets it handed to him 24 or 48 hours later? It wouldn't be the same.

And I can't stand the 'risk' or 'slippery slope' argument. There is only a slippery slope if MLB lets it happen. It's not a democracy. They decide how rules are applied. No offense, but that argument sounds just like every political debate where one side proposes no change because they fear 'what next' though there is little argument that it would be a good result.

Right, and Bud will choose to not review it or change the call. He can't and won't...make book on it.

 

[ang12]

FRom ESPN:

"Baseball commissioner Bud Selig said he would look at the game's umpiring system and the expanded use of instant replay, but would not reverse the blown call that cost Armando Galarraga of the Detroit Tigers a perfect game on Wednesday night."

 

[pantagrapher]

FRom ESPN:

"Baseball commissioner Bud Selig said he would look at the game's umpiring system and the expanded use of instant replay, but would not reverse the blown call that cost Armando Galarraga of the Detroit Tigers a perfect game on Wednesday night."

The whole thing is unfortunate, but Selig's making the right call on his end.

 

[Mohawk]

FRom ESPN:

"Baseball commissioner Bud Selig said he would look at the game's umpiring system and the expanded use of instant replay, but would not reverse the blown call that cost Armando Galarraga of the Detroit Tigers a perfect game on Wednesday night."

Nor should he reverse the call. I am no Selig fan. In fact I think he is one of the worst commish baseball has ever had in my recall. But in this case, having the commish overrule an ump's call would set a horrible precedent. And the impact on galarraga is negligible. he will be better known as the only pitcher who threw a perfect game but didn't. It is ludicrous to refuse to use available technology to make a game fair.

the ump made a mistake. I am an ump. i make mistakes too. all of us do. that is the human element that everyone thinks is so great. not me. i think umps would appreciate having the eye in the sky getting right a crucial call like that

the play at first was close enough to understand a blown call, without slo mo replay.

but in that situation, knowing the guy is one out away from a perfect game and you get a bang bang play like that at first on a slow roller, the call should be OUT and SELL it and get out of the way. to me that is where the larger mistake was made!

 

[Tom Servo]

Right, and Bud will choose to not review it or change the call. He can't and won't...make book on it.

From ESPN:

"Baseball commissioner Bud Selig said he would look at the game's umpiring system and the expanded use of instant replay, but would not reverse the blown call that cost Armando Galarraga of the Detroit Tigers a perfect game on Wednesday night."

 

[Bojang0301]

Armando may not have gotten a perfect game but he has been a perfect human being through all of this. I have a great deal of admiration for him after the last 24 hours.

 

[Bojang0301]

Right, and Bud will choose to not review it or change the call. He can't and won't...make book on it.

From ESPN:

"Baseball commissioner Bud Selig said he would look at the game's umpiring system and the expanded use of instant replay, but would not reverse the blown call that cost Armando Galarraga of the Detroit Tigers a perfect game on Wednesday night."

Want a cookie?

 

[Tom Servo]

Right, and Bud will choose to not review it or change the call. He can't and won't...make book on it.

From ESPN:

"Baseball commissioner Bud Selig said he would look at the game's umpiring system and the expanded use of instant replay, but would not reverse the blown call that cost Armando Galarraga of the Detroit Tigers a perfect game on Wednesday night."

Want a cookie?

Yes. Chocolate chip with no nuts.

 

[meeka]

Right, and Bud will choose to not review it or change the call. He can't and won't...make book on it.

From ESPN:

"Baseball commissioner Bud Selig said he would look at the game's umpiring system and the expanded use of instant replay, but would not reverse the blown call that cost Armando Galarraga of the Detroit Tigers a perfect game on Wednesday night."

Want a cookie?

Yes. Chocolate chip with no nuts.

Must be an Ohio thing.

 

[Weapon of Mass Instruction]

How can there be a tie if a distinct call is made and the call stands no matter what? Joyce made the wrong call tonight and even admitted so. Does that change it? No. So how can a theoretical tie go to the runner. It doesn't, it is plainly at the discretion of the umpire. Anyone who yells out tie goes to the runner is the equivalent to a little league dad who doesn't understand the game of baseball. Theoretical ties are called out all the time.

Well...that isn't the rule. The rule states that the ball must BEAT the runner to first:

6.05 A BATTER is out when -

(j) After a third strike or after he hits a fair ball, he or first base is tagged before he touches first base;

 

[Bojang0301]

How can there be a tie if a distinct call is made and the call stands no matter what? Joyce made the wrong call tonight and even admitted so. Does that change it? No. So how can a theoretical tie go to the runner. It doesn't, it is plainly at the discretion of the umpire. Anyone who yells out tie goes to the runner is the equivalent to a little league dad who doesn't understand the game of baseball. Theoretical ties are called out all the time.

Well...that isn't the rule. The rule states that the ball must BEAT the runner to first:

6.05 A BATTER is out when -

(j) After a third strike or after he hits a fair ball, he or first base is tagged before he touches first base;

Since there isn't a tie (thus the word theoretical) it will be the umpires discretion if the ball beat the runner or not. So once again there are no ties, the call always stands and I'm no longer biting.

 

[Greco]

Baseball isn't the same for me since that call. I can't even watch it without feeling a sickness in my stomach. I know they aren't going to overturn the call, ever. I think they should, but they won't, but the game has lost its luster for me because of it. I think Jim Joyce got off the hook extremely easy with his cry baby apology. That call was so wrong on so many levels and the only solace I can take from this is that Jim Joyce will never live it down. It will define his career and I am glad for it. It's a sad day for me. A part of me has died...

 

[igbomb]

Baseball isn't the same for me since that call. I can't even watch it without feeling a sickness in my stomach. I know they aren't going to overturn the call, ever. I think they should, but they won't, but the game has lost its luster for me because of it. I think Jim Joyce got off the hook extremely easy with his cry baby apology. That call was so wrong on so many levels and the only solace I can take from this is that Jim Joyce will never live it down. It will define his career and I am glad for it. It's a sad day for me. A part of me has died...

I'm as pissed about it as anyone, but the fact that Joyce's misery over his error grants you solace is pretty pathetic. Every one of us screws up. Sometime the screw-ups are small and sometimes they are pretty big. At least the guy owned up to it and took it like a man. You've always seemed like a decent enough poster in the Tigers threads previously, but wishing misery on someone over this is ridiculously petty. Please don't take the next step and turn into one of the degenerates who is harassing this guy and his family.

 

[Greco]

Baseball isn't the same for me since that call. I can't even watch it without feeling a sickness in my stomach. I know they aren't going to overturn the call, ever. I think they should, but they won't, but the game has lost its luster for me because of it. I think Jim Joyce got off the hook extremely easy with his cry baby apology. That call was so wrong on so many levels and the only solace I can take from this is that Jim Joyce will never live it down. It will define his career and I am glad for it. It's a sad day for me. A part of me has died...

I'm as pissed about it as anyone, but the fact that Joyce's misery over his error grants you solace is pretty pathetic. Every one of us screws up. Sometime the screw-ups are small and sometimes they are pretty big. At least the guy owned up to it and took it like a man. You've always seemed like a decent enough poster in the Tigers threads previously, but wishing misery on someone over this is ridiculously petty. Please don't take the next step and turn into one of the degenerates who is harassing this guy and his family.

I don't care about the game enough anymore to take it out on him. I just think he gets what he deserves. 22 years of umpiring should have prepared him to make that call. I don't wish anythiing more on him, just the fact that it will haunt him for the rest of his life seems fair as it has ruined the game for the rest of mine. End/

 

[the moops]

Greco.

Get a grip dude.

 

[Pnishthm]

Baseball isn't the same for me since that call. I can't even watch it without feeling a sickness in my stomach. I know they aren't going to overturn the call, ever. I think they should, but they won't, but the game has lost its luster for me because of it. I think Jim Joyce got off the hook extremely easy with his cry baby apology. That call was so wrong on so many levels and the only solace I can take from this is that Jim Joyce will never live it down. It will define his career and I am glad for it. It's a sad day for me. A part of me has died...

REALLY?

 

[Gigantomachia]

Baseball isn't the same for me since that call. I can't even watch it without feeling a sickness in my stomach. I know they aren't going to overturn the call, ever. I think they should, but they won't, but the game has lost its luster for me because of it. I think Jim Joyce got off the hook extremely easy with his cry baby apology. That call was so wrong on so many levels and the only solace I can take from this is that Jim Joyce will never live it down. It will define his career and I am glad for it. It's a sad day for me. A part of me has died...

Just proves u were never really a baseball fan in the first place.THERE IS NO FRIGGIN' CRYING IN BASEBALL!!!!!

 

[Mohawk]

Baseball isn't the same for me since that call. I can't even watch it without feeling a sickness in my stomach. I know they aren't going to overturn the call, ever. I think they should, but they won't, but the game has lost its luster for me because of it. I think Jim Joyce got off the hook extremely easy with his cry baby apology. That call was so wrong on so many levels and the only solace I can take from this is that Jim Joyce will never live it down. It will define his career and I am glad for it. It's a sad day for me. A part of me has died...

A BIT OVERLY M~E~L~O~D~R~A~M~A~T~I~C DON'T U THINK?

 

[cobalt_27]

I don't care about the game enough anymore to take it out on him. I just think he gets what he deserves. 22 years of umpiring should have prepared him to make that call. I don't wish anythiing more on him, just the fact that it will haunt him for the rest of his life seems fair as it has ruined the game for the rest of mine. End/

Greco, wait...

 

[Paper Lions]

In the span of two hours, this went from a tragedy in the real of sports, to a great triumph in real life. Its easy to harp on this, and rightfully so. That call was really horrendous. Galaraga had every right to blow up, melt down in the game and go after the ump afterwards. Joyce, if he denied any wrongdoing, would be followed a well worn path of past umpire denials. Neither of these happened. Galaraga dealt with this almost unfathomably crushing personal defeat like a man, went out, and finished the shut out. Joyce manned up, and that could have been the end of it. But the fact that Joyce went over to apologize and Galaraga accepted it really shows the measure of both men to me, and makes them both worthy guys to look up to. Any one of us, yes, even a FBG can mess up. Not all of us admit it, and probably even fewer are able to deal with such slights with the grace, honor and humanity Galaraga did. On the very damn night this happened, he accepted Joyce's apology and has gone a long way to diffusing what could have been an escalating situation.My perspective is, how can I be upset at Joyce if Galaraga has forgiven him? This isn't about the state of umpiring or replay or any of that, this is about two guys and the pitfalls and power of being human and really, how we can all be better to each other if we choose to be, both by admitting our wrongs and forgiving them. I'll think a lot fonder of Armando Galaraga as long as I live for his conduct in light of this than I ever would have thought about him perfect game. Great job

Great posting.

 

[BobbyLayne]

The two most famous perfect games weren't. Long term, this one will be remembered in the same way.

In 1917, Ernie Shore retired 26 straight batters. The starting Red Sox pitcher, Babe Ruth, walked the first batter, and promptly got tossed for arguing with the home plate umpire. The runner was thrown out attempting to steal second, and Shore was perfect against every batter he faced. Technically it was a combined no-hitter by two pitchers, but for years it was listed with an asterisk with all the other perfect games.

In 1959, Harvey Haddix retired 36 straight batters, but the opposing starter matched his shutout. In the 13th, an error, sacrifice bunt, intentional walk (to Hank Aaron) preceded Joe Adcock hitting an apparent home run, ending the no-hitter and the game. However, in the confusion, Aaron left the basepaths and was passed by Adcock for the second out and the Braves won 2-0. Eventually the hit was changed from a home run to a double by a ruling from National League president Warren Giles; only the first Braves run counted, for a score of 1-0, but the Pirates and Haddix still lost.

Still, those two games - both asterisk type remembrances - are almost as famous as Don Larsen's WS gem. I know Pedro Martinez also had a perfect game through 9 innings, but perhaps owing to the fact he won the game in the 10th (after giving up a hit and being relieved), it doesn't seem to have grown to the legendary status of the Haddix effort.

I think BECAUSE of the blown call - one of the most infamous and probably most replayed mistakes in sports history - Galaraga is going to be remembered by virtually every announcer and writer when somebody pitches or flirts with another perfect game. If Joyce gets the call right, in five years the average fan would have remembered the time Halladay and those two journeymen (what were there names again?) hurlers pitched perfect games within a month.

 

[Pat Patriot]

Baseball isn't the same for me since that call. I can't even watch it without feeling a sickness in my stomach. I know they aren't going to overturn the call, ever. I think they should, but they won't, but the game has lost its luster for me because of it. I think Jim Joyce got off the hook extremely easy with his cry baby apology. That call was so wrong on so many levels and the only solace I can take from this is that Jim Joyce will never live it down. It will define his career and I am glad for it. It's a sad day for me. A part of me has died...

I agree with one aspect of your post, Joyce got off awfully easy. And its because it started the drumbeat for more instant replay. He just should have gotten the call right. It was an easy call. Made easier by the fact that a perfect game was on the line. You err on the side of history. Its inexplicable that Joyce blew that call.