Game of Thrones Crossover Thread (1 Viewer)

[jamny]

TV watchers on here are weird.

why?

People in the TV thread didn't want backstory or book stuff. I like to know a little more than the show but don't want to read the books or find out too many spoilers in the book thread.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

After season 7 and this series is done. Hbo should jump right into the roberts rebillion era. Tons of material

Oh yeah, wanted to ask.Did the show start where the books started or was there a bit more back story, like Robert's Rebellion?

Or did they go there with flashbacks?

Here has been almost zero flash backs. Series started with the books. Besides the opening of season 5 i cant think of any flashbacks

Did they have chapters with some history or was it only told by current characters like they do on the show.

I can't recall any chapters concentrating on specific historical events. Always a character referring to an event or time or person/people in the past. It is one of my favorite parts of the books.

This.

The books are written in limited 3rd person in the "present" (the time being presented on the show), with each chapter being solely one person's point of view. The chapter titles are referring to whose POV you'll be getting ("Tyrion", Catelyn", etc...). So, if you're reading a Tyrion chapter that has Catelyn in it, you'll only be seeing things as he sees them.

Structuring the book this way is one of the reasons there are so many fan theories. No POV character knows everything and some of what they think they know is either wrong or misguided or colored by their own way of thinking. Almost all are unreliable in one way or another, so what we "know" as readers may not be right. And we never (as of yet, at least) get any chapters from the point of view of master schemers like Varys, Littlefinger, or Tywin.

So, a lot of the history stuff is in bits and pieces from different characters. Besides the hard facts (Robert won his rebellion and became king), almost everything is open to interpretation.....which is why half the internet is giving to trying to figure out if Howland Reed is the High Sparrow.

Anyway, HBO has some decent back-story stuff on their web site like a pretty basic rundown of Robert's Rebellion. Also, Martin published a "world book" last year which is basically the entire history of Westeros though it's of course written by a (probably unreliable) maester.

 

[jamny]

After season 7 and this series is done. Hbo should jump right into the roberts rebillion era. Tons of material

Oh yeah, wanted to ask.Did the show start where the books started or was there a bit more back story, like Robert's Rebellion?

Or did they go there with flashbacks?

Here has been almost zero flash backs. Series started with the books. Besides the opening of season 5 i cant think of any flashbacks

Did they have chapters with some history or was it only told by current characters like they do on the show.

I can't recall any chapters concentrating on specific historical events. Always a character referring to an event or time or person/people in the past. It is one of my favorite parts of the books.

This.

The books are written in limited 3rd person in the "present" (the time being presented on the show), with each chapter being solely one person's point of view. The chapter titles are referring to whose POV you'll be getting ("Tyrion", Catelyn", etc...). So, if you're reading a Tyrion chapter that has Catelyn in it, you'll only be seeing things as he sees them.

Structuring the book this way is one of the reasons there are so many fan theories. No POV character knows everything and some of what they think they know is either wrong or misguided or colored by their own way of thinking. Almost all are unreliable in one way or another, so what we "know" as readers may not be right. And we never (as of yet, at least) get any chapters from the point of view of master schemers like Varys, Littlefinger, or Tywin.

So, a lot of the history stuff is in bits and pieces from different characters. Besides the hard facts (Robert won his rebellion and became king), almost everything is open to interpretation.....which is why half the internet is giving to trying to figure out if Howland Reed is the High Sparrow.

Anyway, HBO has some decent back-story stuff on their web site like a pretty basic rundown of Robert's Rebellion. Also, Martin published a "world book" last year which is basically the entire history of Westeros though it's of course written by a (probably unreliable) maester.

Wow, no wonder it takes so long to write the books. What a unique way to tell the story.

It's funny, but I was thinking yesterday about posting in the TV thread that I don't think that is the real High Sparrow. I guess there are some rumblings about that. I'm going to bring it up and see what people think.

I think I have a pretty good grasp on Robert's Rebellion but I'll check out the HBO site.

thx! I'm way too hooked on this show now. I think my wife can barely watch it with me anymore.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

I should have mentioned that the stuff on HBO's site are for show-watchers only, so there's no book spoilers for anything that might be coming. Although.....since the show is passing the books on some story lines or has changed them completely, it's getting to the point where it may not matter.

Grantland.com does a lot of coverage that is "viewer-only" while filling in a lot of blanks. Jason Concepcion's "Ask The Maester" column mid-week would, I think, be really helpful for those looking for the depth that the show can't afford to go into.

 

[jamny]

I should have mentioned that the stuff on HBO's site are for show-watchers only, so there's no book spoilers for anything that might be coming. Although.....since the show is passing the books on some story lines or has changed them completely, it's getting to the point where it may not matter.

Grantland.com does a lot of coverage that is "viewer-only" while filling in a lot of blanks. Jason Concepcion's "Ask The Maester" column mid-week would, I think, be really helpful for those looking for the depth that the show can't afford to go into.

How are book readers liking this season so far. I had a friend on FB rant about Sansa and Ramsay saying they are changing it too much.

 

[Thunderlips]

I should have mentioned that the stuff on HBO's site are for show-watchers only, so there's no book spoilers for anything that might be coming. Although.....since the show is passing the books on some story lines or has changed them completely, it's getting to the point where it may not matter.

Grantland.com does a lot of coverage that is "viewer-only" while filling in a lot of blanks. Jason Concepcion's "Ask The Maester" column mid-week would, I think, be really helpful for those looking for the depth that the show can't afford to go into.

How are book readers liking this season so far. I had a friend on FB rant about Sansa and Ramsay saying they are changing it too much.

I like it. HBO has trimmed a lot of fat. The Sansa situation didn't make sense to me at first, but was explained perfectly by Roose Bolton to Littlefinger.

 

[Thunderlips]

After season 7 and this series is done. Hbo should jump right into the roberts rebillion era. Tons of material

Oh yeah, wanted to ask.Did the show start where the books started or was there a bit more back story, like Robert's Rebellion?

Or did they go there with flashbacks?

Here has been almost zero flash backs. Series started with the books. Besides the opening of season 5 i cant think of any flashbacks

Did they have chapters with some history or was it only told by current characters like they do on the show.

I can't recall any chapters concentrating on specific historical events. Always a character referring to an event or time or person/people in the past. It is one of my favorite parts of the books.

This.

The books are written in limited 3rd person in the "present" (the time being presented on the show), with each chapter being solely one person's point of view. The chapter titles are referring to whose POV you'll be getting ("Tyrion", Catelyn", etc...). So, if you're reading a Tyrion chapter that has Catelyn in it, you'll only be seeing things as he sees them.

Structuring the book this way is one of the reasons there are so many fan theories. No POV character knows everything and some of what they think they know is either wrong or misguided or colored by their own way of thinking. Almost all are unreliable in one way or another, so what we "know" as readers may not be right. And we never (as of yet, at least) get any chapters from the point of view of master schemers like Varys, Littlefinger, or Tywin.

So, a lot of the history stuff is in bits and pieces from different characters. Besides the hard facts (Robert won his rebellion and became king), almost everything is open to interpretation.....which is why half the internet is giving to trying to figure out if Howland Reed is the High Sparrow.

Anyway, HBO has some decent back-story stuff on their web site like a pretty basic rundown of Robert's Rebellion. Also, Martin published a "world book" last year which is basically the entire history of Westeros though it's of course written by a (probably unreliable) maester.

Reed = Septon? That one's interesting....although a bit too cutesy. IMO, Reed doesn't need to have any more value to the story other that what he can say about the day that Ned rescued his sister from Rhaegar's people.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

I should have mentioned that the stuff on HBO's site are for show-watchers only, so there's no book spoilers for anything that might be coming. Although.....since the show is passing the books on some story lines or has changed them completely, it's getting to the point where it may not matter.

Grantland.com does a lot of coverage that is "viewer-only" while filling in a lot of blanks. Jason Concepcion's "Ask The Maester" column mid-week would, I think, be really helpful for those looking for the depth that the show can't afford to go into.

How are book readers liking this season so far. I had a friend on FB rant about Sansa and Ramsay saying they are changing it too much.

I like it. Now I'm jumping at shadows like show-only folks instead of thinking "how will they adapt THAT scene"........ because the show has gone rogue at this point.

The stuff that bothers me isn't because it's different from the books, it just doesn't make show-logic to me. Sansa being dumped at Winterfell by Littlefinger or Ellaria turning from cool bisexual hedonist into a war-mongering shrew between seasons. I'm on stand-by on both of these and can kind of justify them to myself if I try hard enough.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

After season 7 and this series is done. Hbo should jump right into the roberts rebillion era. Tons of material

Oh yeah, wanted to ask.Did the show start where the books started or was there a bit more back story, like Robert's Rebellion?

Or did they go there with flashbacks?

Here has been almost zero flash backs. Series started with the books. Besides the opening of season 5 i cant think of any flashbacks

Did they have chapters with some history or was it only told by current characters like they do on the show.

I can't recall any chapters concentrating on specific historical events. Always a character referring to an event or time or person/people in the past. It is one of my favorite parts of the books.

This.

The books are written in limited 3rd person in the "present" (the time being presented on the show), with each chapter being solely one person's point of view. The chapter titles are referring to whose POV you'll be getting ("Tyrion", Catelyn", etc...). So, if you're reading a Tyrion chapter that has Catelyn in it, you'll only be seeing things as he sees them.

Structuring the book this way is one of the reasons there are so many fan theories. No POV character knows everything and some of what they think they know is either wrong or misguided or colored by their own way of thinking. Almost all are unreliable in one way or another, so what we "know" as readers may not be right. And we never (as of yet, at least) get any chapters from the point of view of master schemers like Varys, Littlefinger, or Tywin.

So, a lot of the history stuff is in bits and pieces from different characters. Besides the hard facts (Robert won his rebellion and became king), almost everything is open to interpretation.....which is why half the internet is giving to trying to figure out if Howland Reed is the High Sparrow.

Anyway, HBO has some decent back-story stuff on their web site like a pretty basic rundown of Robert's Rebellion. Also, Martin published a "world book" last year which is basically the entire history of Westeros though it's of course written by a (probably unreliable) maester.

Reed = Septon? That one's interesting....although a bit too cutesy. IMO, Reed doesn't need to have any more value to the story other that what he can say about the day that Ned rescued his sister from Rhaegar's people.

Don't google it, then, unless you want to go down a rabbit hole that you may not return from.

I'm sure a lot of you know this, but there are dozens (100s? 1,000?) of blog sites diving deep into the minutiae of one single theory.

 

[Gr00vus]

So, a lot of the history stuff is in bits and pieces from different characters. Besides the hard facts (Robert won his rebellion and became king), almost everything is open to interpretation.....which is why half the internet is giving to trying to figure out if Howland Reed is the High Sparrow.

Reed = Septon? That one's interesting....although a bit too cutesy. IMO, Reed doesn't need to have any more value to the story other that what he can say about the day that Ned rescued his sister from Rhaegar's people.

I like that one. Howland Reed is the character I'm most interested in "meeting" that hasn't yet appeared. On the other hand it would be somewhat cool if he just remained an enigma throughout the whole story. Seeing as he's apparently the only one left (or one of a vanishingly small few left) who knows the truth about Jon and what went down at the Tower Of Joy (what a name that is), I have to believe we'll hear from him in some way before it's all over.

To address the other question, I'm enjoying this season. They've done a good job of redirecting some parts of what was written to be more interesting, but they still don't seem to quite be able to avoid getting bogged down in some of the same places Martin did - Danaerys's time in Mereen, and Dorne being the principle examples. I think the Dorne thing will pick up steam in the show once Jamie gets closer to the action, and I'm anticipating having him and Bron there will be a big improvement on how that was all handled in the books (except for apparently no Arianne Martel). The treatments of Brienne, Sansa and Littlefinger are already a million times better than they were in the books.

 

[jamny]

I'm not reading any of those links. And I don't even want to know about Howland Reed.

Let's not get crazy in here.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Sorry, was just throwing them out there to show how in depth some of this stuff goes. I'll delete them if you want.

 

[jamny]

No, not at all!

Someone else might want that. You gave plenty of warning.

 

[jamny]

It's mostly the Reed discussion. Don't know who it is and don't care to. I used to be able to skim the book thread but got too many spoilers. Spoilers will happen in this thread, just hope to keep it all readable.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

It's mostly the Reed discussion. Don't know who it is and don't care to. I used to be able to skim the book thread but got too many spoilers. Spoilers will happen in this thread, just hope to keep it all readable.

Howland is Meera & Jojen's (the kids traveling with Bran) father. He's the lord of Greywater Watch and was one of Ned Stark's best friends. I doubt he'll have any importance in the show - they'll use an established character to do his job if needed.

We haven't seen him in the books, either. It's just assumed by most that he'll show up at some point because - as Groovus says - he's one of the few left who may know a major book secret.

I was just using Reed = High Sparrow as an example of the bazillion fan theories floating around. It's one I don't buy, by the way, and I'm almost positive the show isn't going there (true or not) because they've cast the Sparrow as much older than he seems to be in the books.

You wanna get into some REAL insanity, find the "Bolt-on" discussions.

eta: deleted the links I posted above for those unable to resist temptation. If anyone's interested, PM me and I'll shoot some over.

 

[Sabertooth]

I'm liking the departures from the books to be quite honest.

Vague in both: The hound's death (or not because it happens off screen in both the books and the show). I always felt the hound was a sympathetic character who survived but did not relish his heinous crimes. I don't recall him ever raping, but he obviously murder the butcher's boy. In retrospect, that might have been a mercy to the poor kid considering what Joff would have done to him if he'd been captured alive.

 

[jamny]

I should have mentioned that the stuff on HBO's site are for show-watchers only, so there's no book spoilers for anything that might be coming. Although.....since the show is passing the books on some story lines or has changed them completely, it's getting to the point where it may not matter.

Grantland.com does a lot of coverage that is "viewer-only" while filling in a lot of blanks. Jason Concepcion's "Ask The Maester" column mid-week would, I think, be really helpful for those looking for the depth that the show can't afford to go into.

How are book readers liking this season so far. I had a friend on FB rant about Sansa and Ramsay saying they are changing it too much.

Thanks for the "Ask The Maester" recommendation. Really good stuff

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Jason Concepcion is hilarious. Yet one more reason looks shouldn't pigeon-hole someone. Here's this kid who's Hispanic, wears gold, a hat sideways - all of what my old ### would associate with "hip hop and nothing else". And this dude is slinging the history of Westeros in prime, understandable nerd-speak.

Watch the podcast, too, if you can. Greenwald & Ryan are show-onlys. Jason & Mallory Rubin ( ) do a great job of keeping things unsullied while also filling in back-story.

 

[sn0mm1s]

I should have mentioned that the stuff on HBO's site are for show-watchers only, so there's no book spoilers for anything that might be coming. Although.....since the show is passing the books on some story lines or has changed them completely, it's getting to the point where it may not matter.

Grantland.com does a lot of coverage that is "viewer-only" while filling in a lot of blanks. Jason Concepcion's "Ask The Maester" column mid-week would, I think, be really helpful for those looking for the depth that the show can't afford to go into.

How are book readers liking this season so far. I had a friend on FB rant about Sansa and Ramsay saying they are changing it too much.

The show is off the rails in enough aspects that I am expecting the quality of the story to drop in quality. It is easy to write episodes when there is some foundation and even with that foundation I think the writers completely whiffed on two of the most powerful/important scenes for two of the most popular characters (Arya and Tyrion).

For many of the book readers the Sansa + Ramsay union facilitated by Littlefinger is a big enough departure (both from the books and Littlefinger's character) to illicit a strong negative response.

 

[Thunderlips]

After season 7 and this series is done. Hbo should jump right into the roberts rebillion era. Tons of material

Oh yeah, wanted to ask.Did the show start where the books started or was there a bit more back story, like Robert's Rebellion?

Or did they go there with flashbacks?

Here has been almost zero flash backs. Series started with the books. Besides the opening of season 5 i cant think of any flashbacks

Did they have chapters with some history or was it only told by current characters like they do on the show.

I can't recall any chapters concentrating on specific historical events. Always a character referring to an event or time or person/people in the past. It is one of my favorite parts of the books.

This. The books are written in limited 3rd person in the "present" (the time being presented on the show), with each chapter being solely one person's point of view. The chapter titles are referring to whose POV you'll be getting ("Tyrion", Catelyn", etc...). So, if you're reading a Tyrion chapter that has Catelyn in it, you'll only be seeing things as he sees them.

Structuring the book this way is one of the reasons there are so many fan theories. No POV character knows everything and some of what they think they know is either wrong or misguided or colored by their own way of thinking. Almost all are unreliable in one way or another, so what we "know" as readers may not be right. And we never (as of yet, at least) get any chapters from the point of view of master schemers like Varys, Littlefinger, or Tywin.

So, a lot of the history stuff is in bits and pieces from different characters. Besides the hard facts (Robert won his rebellion and became king), almost everything is open to interpretation.....which is why half the internet is giving to trying to figure out if Howland Reed is the High Sparrow.

Anyway, HBO has some decent back-story stuff on their web site like a pretty basic rundown of Robert's Rebellion. Also, Martin published a "world book" last year which is basically the entire history of Westeros though it's of course written by a (probably unreliable) maester.

Reed = Septon? That one's interesting....although a bit too cutesy. IMO, Reed doesn't need to have any more value to the story other that what he can say about the day that Ned rescued his sister from Rhaegar's people.

Don't google it, then, unless you want to go down a rabbit hole that you may not return from. I'm sure a lot of you know this, but there are dozens (100s? 1,000?) of blog sites diving deep into the minutiae of one single theory.

I read it.

Parts of it make sense, but ultimately just seems to be a move to shoehorn someone into the story's endgame.

Martin's the kind of writer that seems to not need everything to be tied neatly in a bow. There was some complaining by book readers about the High Sparrow just showing up into the story when it's more than halfway thru....I certainly don't mind it as it rings true to life.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

They have to be getting close to revealing jon snows parents. Sansa and littlefinger in the crypt talking about lyana. Stannis basically saying no way ned stark was his father. And barristan talking about rhaegar too

 

[Thunderlips]

They have to be getting close to revealing jon snows parents. Sansa and littlefinger in the crypt talking about lyana. Stannis basically saying no way ned stark was his father. And barristan talking about rhaegar too

Yeah. One of the things that I like about the show/book is how the creators initially laid out how we were supposed to view Rhaegar. You knew Ned was the moral center and main character and being allied with Robert...we were just supposed to take Robert's vitriol towards Rhaegar at face value.....but as the story progressed, everyone who knew Rhaegar talking about what a good man and a good king he would have been.

 

[jamny]

They have to be getting close to revealing jon snows parents. Sansa and littlefinger in the crypt talking about lyana. Stannis basically saying no way ned stark was his father. And barristan talking about rhaegar too

Yeah. One of the things that I like about the show/book is how the creators initially laid out how we were supposed to view Rhaegar. You knew Ned was the moral center and main character and being allied with Robert...we were just supposed to take Robert's vitriol towards Rhaegar at face value.....but as the story progressed, everyone who knew Rhaegar talking about what a good man and a good king he would have been.

That plays well into that TVguide article that stated that in Targaryan lore, Lyanna Stark went willingly with Rhaegar. If Ned believed that...

Question for book readers...yes or no answer, put it in spoilers...Do you know Jon Snow's lineage?

 

[Frostillicus]

They have to be getting close to revealing jon snows parents. Sansa and littlefinger in the crypt talking about lyana. Stannis basically saying no way ned stark was his father. And barristan talking about rhaegar too

Yeah. One of the things that I like about the show/book is how the creators initially laid out how we were supposed to view Rhaegar. You knew Ned was the moral center and main character and being allied with Robert...we were just supposed to take Robert's vitriol towards Rhaegar at face value.....but as the story progressed, everyone who knew Rhaegar talking about what a good man and a good king he would have been.

That plays well into that TVguide article that stated that in Targaryan lore, Lyanna Stark went willingly with Rhaegar. If Ned believed that...

Question for book readers...yes or no answer, put it in spoilers...Do you know Jon Snow's lineage?

Spoiler

No

 

[jamny]

They have to be getting close to revealing jon snows parents. Sansa and littlefinger in the crypt talking about lyana. Stannis basically saying no way ned stark was his father. And barristan talking about rhaegar too

Yeah. One of the things that I like about the show/book is how the creators initially laid out how we were supposed to view Rhaegar. You knew Ned was the moral center and main character and being allied with Robert...we were just supposed to take Robert's vitriol towards Rhaegar at face value.....but as the story progressed, everyone who knew Rhaegar talking about what a good man and a good king he would have been.

That plays well into that TVguide article that stated that in Targaryan lore, Lyanna Stark went willingly with Rhaegar. If Ned believed that...

Question for book readers...yes or no answer, put it in spoilers...Do you know Jon Snow's lineage?

Spoiler

No

Spoiler

Wow!

 

[flapgreen]

Barristan dying is bull####. He's supposed to be leading Dani's army. Also the Grey Worm love story is bs. Neither happened in the book and both terrible storylines.