Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory...NERDS already ruining a series that hasn't started (3 Viewers)

[KarmaPolice]

BTW I have zero issues with them casting a black actor and will watch the show. My only issue was with a poster saying it wasn't woke to do so. When the writers say they want to add diversity to the cast since alot has changed since 2011 that is the literal definition of woke.

 aware of and actively attentive to important facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice)

Again I have no issues with it but let's call a spade a spade here. It's disingenuous to deny it.

Like I said, I am fine with labelling it as such if that is the technical definition of "woke".   Usually when I see it, it's in a negative connotation.   

It's nitpicking, but to me if the "a lot has changed" means that it's more commonplace to be able to cast how you want and get what you want, sex and race be damned, that's one thing. Ie, they are making that conscious choice on their own to do so.  If the change is "we need to do this or the Twitter mob will get us" or we need X% of poc in all movies, that is a completely different thing.   When I see people griping about "wokeness", my mind goes to the 2nd one.    Hence my reaction.  

 

[djmich]

Like I said, I am fine with labelling it as such if that is the technical definition of "woke".   Usually when I see it, it's in a negative connotation.   

It's nitpicking, but to me if the "a lot has changed" means that it's more commonplace to be able to cast how you want and get what you want, sex and race be damned, that's one thing. Ie, they are making that conscious choice on their own to do so.  If the change is "we need to do this or the Twitter mob will get us" or we need X% of poc in all movies, that is a completely different thing.   When I see people griping about "wokeness", my mind goes to the 2nd one.    Hence my reaction.  

My read of the article in it’s entirety is that it’s the latter.

Even if that’s the case I don’t think it’s inherently bad to sprinkle in diversity, particularly when the better actor is non white but the role would have otherwise been generally accepted as white

 
For movies based on books I’d prefer they generally stay true to the character descriptions in the novels, but again wiggle room within reason.  Black elves…I dunno doesn’t match what I’ve read as elves which were always very light skinned.

Related, I recently saw a live performance of Trading Places and a woman played the Eddie Murphy role.  Really f’d with my brain initially and I think it would have been better with a male lead but she did a pretty good job and it still worked.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

My read of the article in it’s entirety is that it’s the latter.

Even if that’s the case I don’t think it’s inherently bad to sprinkle in diversity, particularly when the better actor is non white but the role would have otherwise been generally accepted as white

 
For movies based on books I’d prefer they generally stay true to the character descriptions in the novels, but again wiggle room within reason.  Black elves…I dunno doesn’t match what I’ve read as elves which were always very light skinned.

Related, I recently saw a live performance of Trading Places and a woman played the Eddie Murphy role.  Really f’d with my brain initially and I think it would have been better with a male lead but she did a pretty good job and it still worked.

You sure?

The casting that threw me the most out of my book-imagining had nothing to do with race, but with Gus McRae from Lonesome Dove. Of course, Duval nailed it so it only bugged me for about 37 seconds.

 

[djmich]

You sure?

The casting that threw me the most out of my book-imagining had nothing to do with race, but with Gus McRae from Lonesome Dove. Of course, Duval nailed it so it only bugged me for about 37 seconds.

I think it cuts both ways.  Turning down roles to black actors because the role is perceived “better fit” as white is not necessarily good.  Turning down roles to white actors for the sake of achieving a diversity ratio is imo not necessarily good either.

Neither are necessarily bad too.  Just complications with trade-offs.

 

[beer 30]

Remember the title of this thread fellas and whatever casting decision they make does not matter

Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory

Lighten up Francis

I think it cuts both ways.  Turning down roles to black actors because the role is perceived “better fit” as white is not necessarily good.  Turning down roles to white actors for the sake of achieving a diversity ratio is imo not necessarily good either.

Neither are necessarily bad too.  Just complications with trade-offs.

I don’t understand the need for it though. The world of GoT’s is diverse enough on it’s on. You don’t need to change the characters to fit a narrative. I think you can get there with what you have.

 

[the moops]

Lighten up Francis

I don’t understand the need for it though. The world of GoT’s is diverse enough on it’s on. You don’t need to change the characters to fit a narrative. I think you can get there with what you have.

Nothing to lighten up about. I haven't read a single book. If the characters are different ethnicity than what was described in the books, it makes zero difference to me as a TV show watcher.

 

[Grahamburn]

I'm one of the few who didn't hate the last two seasons. They didn't have the quality of the first 4, and they certainly hurried things way too much, but I was okay with where most of the characters ended up. Still my favorite all time show and I throw a random episode on fairly often.

I never really understood the outrage.  I re-watched a lot of it the past few days as HBO was running a marathon to promote House of Dragons, and the majority of the outcomes made perfect sense to me anyway.  I think a lot of the book folks were more than a little butt-hurt that they didn't have a leg up on everyone anymore by knowing the source material, and subsequently bashed it for those reasons.  They wouldn't have liked it no matter how it ended.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I never really understood the outrage.  I re-watched a lot of it the past few days as HBO was running a marathon to promote House of Dragons, and the majority of the outcomes made perfect sense to me anyway.  I think a lot of the book folks were more than a little butt-hurt that they didn't have a leg up on everyone anymore by knowing the source material, and subsequently bashed it for those reasons.  They wouldn't have liked it no matter how it ended.

The main issue was that within the show, a lot didn't make sense, because they rushed everything to reach certain conclusions.  I think most of how things end up, other than the origin/demise of the White Walkers is going to be the same.

 

[Grahamburn]

The main issue was that within the show, a lot didn't make sense, because they rushed everything to reach certain conclusions.  I think most of how things end up, other than the origin/demise of the White Walkers is going to be the same.

Which parts though?  I can see arguments for the haste with which some of the characters were moving around.  I get that.  And, traveling out to "catch" one of the dead was asinine.  I'll give you that.  Within that episode though there was some fantastic dialogue from the characters.

But, otherwise, I thought it was pretty cool how they ended the majority of the stories.  It's not an easy thing to do.  You know what would be worse?  Not finishing it at all like the guy who created it is doing.

 

[jobarules]

I never really understood the outrage.  I re-watched a lot of it the past few days as HBO was running a marathon to promote House of Dragons, and the majority of the outcomes made perfect sense to me anyway.  I think a lot of the book folks were more than a little butt-hurt that they didn't have a leg up on everyone anymore by knowing the source material, and subsequently bashed it for those reasons.  They wouldn't have liked it no matter how it ended.

I never read the books and thought the ending was horrible

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

The ending was atrocious and to say otherwise is to be contrarian. 

-signed the biggest contrarian on this board. 

 

[psychobillies]

Is there any source material for this show?  I wasn't aware that this "prequel" thing was based off of a book.

 

[Grahamburn]

The ending was atrocious and to say otherwise is to be contrarian. 

-signed the biggest contrarian on this board. 

I literally just watched it all again with this specific thought in mind.  I couldn't figure out why it was so universally panned.  Can you articulate what you hated about it so much?

 

[Mile High]

Is there any source material for this show?  I wasn't aware that this "prequel" thing was based off of a book.

Based on: Fire & Blood Book 2: The War of the Anarchy; by George R. R. Martin

 

[eoMMan]

Didn’t see the trailer until a few minutes ago… count me in. I like dragons.

 

[E Street Brat]

Based on: Fire & Blood Book 2: The War of the Anarchy; by George R. R. Martin

Fire and Blood is the first of two planned books  I'm sure the second book will be finished long before HBO catches up. 

           Fool me once.  

 

[Buckna]

Is there any source material for this show?  I wasn't aware that this "prequel" thing was based off of a book.

It’s not really a normal narrative book, more of a companion piece with a timeline explaining a lot of the backstory from centuries prior which are referred to in his original books and setting up some of the Game of Thrones background. There’s enough leeway the show runners could follow it closely or play around with things if they want. Martin hasn’t been involved with any of the scripts or the writing so good chance they change plenty of other things from the ‘source.’ Whether that ends up a good or a bad thing, remains to be seen.

 

[Capella]

What I don’t get about people saying they won’t watch this one because they didn’t like how Thrones ended, is that B&B aren’t involved at all, and you know the production and budget will be first-class at least. So why wouldn’t you give it a shot? Doesn’t make sense to me. 

 

[Grahamburn]

What I don’t get about people saying they won’t watch this one because they didn’t like how Thrones ended, is that B&B aren’t involved at all, and you know the production and budget will be first-class at least. So why wouldn’t you give it a shot? Doesn’t make sense to me. 

They're lying.

 

[stbugs]

The main issue was that within the show, a lot didn't make sense, because they rushed everything to reach certain conclusions.  I think most of how things end up, other than the origin/demise of the White Walkers is going to be the same.

Yep. I never read a page but it was obvious when the source material ran out and the show folks wanted to be done with it.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

What I don’t get about people saying they won’t watch this one because they didn’t like how Thrones ended, is that B&B aren’t involved at all, and you know the production and budget will be first-class at least. So why wouldn’t you give it a shot? Doesn’t make sense to me. 

Kind of spoiled the world a bit for me.  I read all of the books, and I own the World of Ice and Fire history, but never read it.  And I didn't bother to get Fire and Blood.

 

[stbugs]

What I don’t get about people saying they won’t watch this one because they didn’t like how Thrones ended, is that B&B aren’t involved at all, and you know the production and budget will be first-class at least. So why wouldn’t you give it a shot? Doesn’t make sense to me. 

I’m worried but heck yeah I’m going to watch it when it starts. I didn’t stop watching GOT with my son even though we went from this is the best show ever to did they really do that? I’ve rewatched something of the scenes I loved but I’m not sure when or if I will actually rewatch the entire show. If it never faltered, I would have started my rewatch right after the ending. I hope it is great. I’m just more confident I’ll enjoy the Ring of Power based solely on the previews.

 

[jobarules]

What I don’t get about people saying they won’t watch this one because they didn’t like how Thrones ended, is that B&B aren’t involved at all, and you know the production and budget will be first-class at least. So why wouldn’t you give it a shot? Doesn’t make sense to me. 

Did anyone actually say that in this thread or are you just saying that in general. Seems like everyone is saying they will give it a shot in this thread,

 

[Uruk-Hai]

What I don’t get about people saying they won’t watch this one because they didn’t like how Thrones ended, is that B&B aren’t involved at all, and you know the production and budget will be first-class at least. So why wouldn’t you give it a shot? Doesn’t make sense to me. 

You got something else on your mind, GB? A nice weekend at the Cape, perhaps? 

My issues with the last couple of seasons (that don't involve adaptation choices) were all to do with the lack of consistency. Some of the character motivations made zero sense and conflicted with what they had set up for years. Tyrion was probably the worst (dude was treated like the smartest person in the show, but was ALWAYS saying the stupidest #### that contradicted everything he had said before), but there were others. Then, the pacing was all kinds of wonky.

I don't hate it like many book people, but you really had to squint to make some of it work.

 

[Capella]

Did anyone actually say that in this thread or are you just saying that in general. Seems like everyone is saying they will give it a shot in this thread,

Feel like multiple people have but I’m not going to re-canvas the thread. 

 

[Grahamburn]

Yep. I never read a page but it was obvious when the source material ran out and the show folks wanted to be done with it.

Was it really obvious or did you just know it ran out because they started complaining when they didn't know what was going to happen anymore? 

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Which parts though?  I can see arguments for the haste with which some of the characters were moving around.  I get that.  And, traveling out to "catch" one of the dead was asinine.  I'll give you that.  Within that episode though there was some fantastic dialogue from the characters.

But, otherwise, I thought it was pretty cool how they ended the majority of the stories.  It's not an easy thing to do.  You know what would be worse?  Not finishing it at all like the guy who created it is doing.

Here's the video I always link when people ask this (which @@stbugs beautifully referenced last page): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAhKOV3nImQ

Bottom line, season 8 and to a slightly lesser extent season 7 were just stupidly written, with characters acting completely out of character to direct the plot, important story arcs tossed aside to get to the end faster, terrible pacing, unbelievable character swings, etc.

A good example I always use is the character of Varys.  In the early seasons his schemes were amazing, intricately thought out, perfectly developed, and delivered to the audience in a subtle way that was amazing.  In s8 Varys plan was essentially to walk around town yelling "HAY GUYS I DON'T LIKE THE QUEEN AND I'M GOING TO BETRAY HER!  DOES ANYONE WANT TO HELP ME BETRAY HER!  BUT DON'T TELL HER ABOUT ME YELLING THIS TO ALL OF YOU THAT WOULD END POORLY FOR ME LOLZIES!!1!".

Ultimately the show just turned into a stupid network drama.  Season 1-6 were written/presented like The Wire and seasons 7-8 were written/presented like Revolution on NBC or Supernatural on the CW.  And don't get me wrong, those shows are perfectly fine for what they are, but you'd be pretty pissed if they were the next season of True Detective or Breaking Bad, which is essentially what happened with GoT.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

What I don’t get about people saying they won’t watch this one because they didn’t like how Thrones ended, is that B&B aren’t involved at all, and you know the production and budget will be first-class at least. So why wouldn’t you give it a shot? Doesn’t make sense to me. 

For me there's just no excitement, or desire to watch it with all the great content out there.  GoT used to be a show where I would wake up on Sunday and be like "it's GoT day!".  Everyone hates Sunday night because it's right when a new work week is about to start, but Sunday night right before GoT started was still the time I really looked forward to every week.  And you had to watch it live because you had to be able to talk about it at work the next day.

I definitely don't feel anything even close to that anymore.  Like I said earlier in the thread I'll wait for the reviews to see where it is.  The trailers looked like seasons 7/8 (all spectacle, no substance), which I have no desire to watch in a new show in this universe.  If the reviews come back good and it turns out it's more like the early seasons of GoT, I'll watch it then.  But it definitely lost it's place of "I have to absorb any content dealing with this franchise".

Pretty much the same as the recent Dexter return recently.  Had Dexter ended after season 4 when it was still firing on all cylinders I would have tuned into the return with huge excitement.  But with Dexter ending so poorly (albeit it started sucking much earlier in its run than GoT) there was no desire to watch it, and I'm glad I didn't bother because all the reviews came back that it was just as crappy as the latter seasons of Dexter, nothing like the early seasons.

Same thing with Heroes Return a few years ago.  It was just more of the same crap that the show ended on, none of the original magic.

 

[Grahamburn]

I mean, when you make a video like that layered in sarcasm and cutting just to the scenes you want to show to make your point it's tough to argue with it. 

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I mean, when you make a video like that layered in sarcasm and cutting just to the scenes you want to show to make your point it's tough to argue with it. 

it is 100% accurate. 

 

[Buckna]

They ran out of most book material by season 5 and went pretty far off course from a lot of what was left as written in that season. The cracks were obvious as it is a pretty poor season (Dorne or Sansa’s storyline OMG) until you hit those last 3 episodes starting with Hardhome. I don’t think you can lay the ‘hate’ just at the feet of book readers considering they ran out of material (and outright ignored a lot of what they did have) halfway thru the run of the show. By then the show was a cultural juggernaut and non-book readers greatly outnumbered the book readers. FWIW, I’m the only one in my ‘circle’ of friends, family, and coworkers who read the books, and I can easily say I hated the ending the least out of all of them. 
 

B&B did such a bad job writing those final seasons that most of the people I know that were big fans have no desire to ever rewatch an episode and little interest in the new show. At least in my case I can point to some things in the book that lead logically to the final conclusion for many of the characters like Dany turning blood-lust crazy. B&B did next to nothing to set those things up or ‘earn it’ in the narrative they put on screen, Bran in particular which was I think the biggest “oh come on!” moment for most viewers. At least things like teleporting pirate ships and fully mail-clad characters surviving drowning can be explained away or hand-waved away vs the whole story ending in what many thought was nonsense.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

They ran out of most book material by season 5 and went pretty far off course from a lot of what was left as written in that season. The cracks were obvious as it is a pretty poor season (Dorne or Sansa’s storyline OMG) until you hit those last 3 episodes starting with Hardhome. I don’t think you can lay the ‘hate’ just at the feet of book readers considering they ran out of material (and outright ignored a lot of what they did have) halfway thru the run of the show. By then the show was a cultural juggernaut and non-book readers greatly outnumbered the book readers. FWIW, I’m the only one in my ‘circle’ of friends, family, and coworkers who read the books, and I can easily say I hated the ending the least out of all of them. 
 

B&B did such a bad job writing those final seasons that most of the people I know that were big fans have no desire to ever rewatch an episode and little interest in the new show. At least in my case I can point to some things in the book that lead logically to the final conclusion for many of the characters like Dany turning blood-lust crazy. B&B did next to nothing to set those things up or ‘earn it’ in the narrative they put on screen, Bran in particular which was I think the biggest “oh come on!” moment for most viewers. At least things like teleporting pirate ships and fully mail-clad characters surviving drowning can be explained away or hand-waved away vs the whole story ending in what many thought was nonsense.

Yea. I probably watched the first 4 seasons 3x. Then 5 and 6 twice. And never rewatched anything after that. 

 

[bostonfred]

Any time someone says the final season sucked and everyone hated it i remember this

 

[massraider]

I was disappointed how rushed the final season was. Later seasons not as good as earlier seasons. 



Minor gripe.

Bad Game of Thrones is miles better than most TV shows, especially if we are comparing later seasons. There is a LOT of good television out there, but few are attempting what GOT was able to do. 

 

[stbugs]

Was it really obvious or did you just know it ran out because they started complaining when they didn't know what was going to happen anymore? 

It was really obvious because the show went back to formulaic TV standards like the look away and the ignore what happened earlier. Hey, let’s pan the camera away from the main character surrounded by 100 wights, well what do you know they survived or hey, yesterday the entire Dothraki horde was decimated by white walkers and friends but all of a sudden they are all back in King’s Landing.

Unfortunately once the source material ran out and they started rushing to get to their Netflix money, the show clearly fell off.

 

[psychobillies]

Any time someone says the final season sucked and everyone hated it i remember this

I thought that was the worst part of the whole series.  That was just a tired  old vampire trope that has been done a million times.  Kill one and they all disappear.  It made the whole menace of the walkers just a big meh. 

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Any time someone says the final season sucked and everyone hated it i remember this

Who went to a bar to watch a show on HBO?  And cheering for her killing him has nothing to do with thinking about the story and realizing how dumb it was.

 

[stbugs]

I thought that was the worst part of the whole series.  That was just a tired  old vampire trope that has been done a million times.  Kill one and they all disappear.  It made the whole menace of the walkers just a big meh. 

I didn’t have any issues with the kill the main guy and you kill everything he created. That was the only way to end the threat because wights that can withstand almost all attacks and are smart enough to wield weapons will never lose if their army grows with every victory.

My biggest issue is the White Walkers were the start of the show and a running threat/theme the entire series. Winter is coming. Yet, in the end it was a one battle dispatch and then let’s spend more time on taking Kings Landing.

I felt like it would have been way better to capture Kings Landing and then struggle to get rid of the White Walkers only to do it when everyone bands together only to see the wheel back in action 10 years later with the same backstabbing as if the white walkers didn’t matter. Human nature takes back over when the White Walkers disappear back into myth.

Just brainstorming but I really didn’t like how insignificant the White Walkers became in the end.

 

[Hawks64]

I thought that was the worst part of the whole series.  That was just a tired  old vampire trope that has been done a million times.  Kill one and they all disappear.  It made the whole menace of the walkers just a big meh. 

With an unkillable command and control from afar army, IMO you really need a plot device like killing the controlling entity and you eliminate the threat. Without that there is no really way for the threat to ever be eliminated.

I didn’t have any issues with the kill the main guy and you kill everything he created. That was the only way to end the threat because wights that can withstand almost all attacks and are smart enough to wield weapons will never lose if their army grows with every victory.

My biggest issue is the White Walkers were the start of the show and a running threat/theme the entire series. Winter is coming. Yet, in the end it was a one battle dispatch and then let’s spend more time on taking Kings Landing.

I felt like it would have been way better to capture Kings Landing and then struggle to get rid of the White Walkers only to do it when everyone bands together only to see the wheel back in action 10 years later with the same backstabbing as if the white walkers didn’t matter. Human nature takes back over when the White Walkers disappear back into myth.

Just brainstorming but I really didn’t like how insignificant the White Walkers became in the end.

I totally get what your saying and I think it goes back to what @massraider said. They (B&W) wanted to be done so they rushed everything and crammed what should have been 3-5 seasons into 1.5 seasons.

I still think the overall story line works well and makes sense. The only really bad thing for me was ending up with Bran the Broken on the throne.

 

[psychobillies]

With an unkillable command and control from afar army, IMO you really need a plot device like killing the controlling entity and you eliminate the threat. Without that there is no really way for the threat to ever be eliminated.

They did have two fire breathing dragons still hanging around.  Just seemed lazy and unoriginal to do it the way they did.  

 

[bostonfred]

I thought that was the worst part of the whole series.  That was just a tired  old vampire trope that has been done a million times.  Kill one and they all disappear.  It made the whole menace of the walkers just a big meh. 

We knew the trope was a thing.  They told us early on about how the night king was created.  We learned that he couldn't be killed except with certain blades.  We knew that killing one white walker killed the wights that they had revived.  We knew who had which swords.  We knew arya was able to sneak around winterfell.  We saw her use that exact trick against Brienne.  There were years of setup to exactly that moment.  

Who went to a bar to watch a show on HBO?  And cheering for her killing him has nothing to do with thinking about the story and realizing how dumb it was.

It was a cool scene. They built up to that moment for years.  I get that it's not the scene you wanted and that they left other stuff unresolved that you wanted resolved but i think people have punished themselves more than D&D for that by refusing to go back and enjoy the show

 

[Hawks64]

They did have two fire breathing dragons still hanging around.  Just seemed lazy and unoriginal to do it the way they did.  

One of which was easily killed by the Night King.

 

[Grahamburn]

The main issue was that within the show, a lot didn't make sense, because they rushed everything to reach certain conclusions.  I think most of how things end up, other than the origin/demise of the White Walkers is going to be the same.

I can see that. They spoon fed us or telegraphed a lot of the character’s endings versus dragging it out over multiple episodes or even seasons like it had been in the past. Which, was the main gripe in that video @FreeBaGeL posted.  Did it happen too fast because we just didn’t want it to be over? 

Dany going mad and torching everyone made sense the way they wrote it.  Plenty of build up and background to her losing her grip on everyone and then Missandei’s last words being “dracarys” right before she gets the axe.

Jamie going back to Cersei made sense the way they wrote it. “The things we do for love.” Even Tyrion saying, “you’ve always known what she was, but you loved her anyway.” His speech to Brienne and him basically admitting he didn’t deserve redemption for the things he’d done. He deserved to die with Cersei. 

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

Every time a new trailer for a show comes out and I think it's awesome then read hordes of people upset over it and/or poopooing it, I remind myself I must be too easily entertained  

 

[massraider]

I can see that. They spoon fed us or telegraphed a lot of the character’s endings 

Yea, whenever someone died on Game of Thrones, I always thought to myself, meh, I totally saw that coming. 

 

[bostonfred]

One of which was easily killed by the Night King.

Again, they set that up fine. The night king didn't easily kill the dragon. He had some kind of weapon that he used to do it that she didn't know about.

Think about the setup.

She had been in battles with the dragons before and watched them get shot with regular arrows plenty of times.  

One time, her dragon got shot with so many regular arrows that it needed a long timeout. 

She attacked Jamie and the caravans. They had the super crossbow.  The dragons dodged it and burned the crossbow.  

The wights had turned giants and animals.  We saw them in their armies.

Then she came to save Jon from a massive army and while she was fighting furiously, the night king was calmly hunting a dragon and used a special weapon that she didn't know existed.  

Could he have done the same again?  Sure, but it wouldn't have been as likely to work, and his focus, for whatever reason, was on bran.  (And that definitely wasn't fleshed out enough, but it may have been left intentionally vague for sequels/ prequels.)

They showed her get caught unaware by one of the giant crossbows.  Then they showed her fight a city that had them all over and she was able to dodge them.  It was the surprise that got her when the night king killed a dragon and again when the crossbow did it.  

They set these things up it just didn't hit the mark.  

 

[bostonfred]

Every time a new trailer for a show comes out and I think it's awesome then read hordes of people upset over it and/or poopooing it, I remind myself I must be too easily entertained  

Yeah there's an army of people trying to make everyone hate this show because they hated the last season. It's really annoying.  It's probably better to avoid reading about it because i guarantee they will watch it and won't worry about spoiling it when they complain.  

 

[Grahamburn]

We knew the trope was a thing.  They told us early on about how the night king was created.  We learned that he couldn't be killed except with certain blades.  We knew that killing one white walker killed the wights that they had revived.  We knew who had which swords.  We knew arya was able to sneak around winterfell.  We saw her use that exact trick against Brienne.  There were years of setup to exactly that moment.  

It was a cool scene. They built up to that moment for years.  I get that it's not the scene you wanted and that they left other stuff unresolved that you wanted resolved but i think people have punished themselves more than D&D for that by refusing to go back and enjoy the show

Exactly. 

 

[Grahamburn]

Again, they set that up fine. The night king didn't easily kill the dragon. He had some kind of weapon that he used to do it that she didn't know about.

Think about the setup.

She had been in battles with the dragons before and watched them get shot with regular arrows plenty of times.  

One time, her dragon got shot with so many regular arrows that it needed a long timeout. 

She attacked Jamie and the caravans. They had the super crossbow.  The dragons dodged it and burned the crossbow.  

The wights had turned giants and animals.  We saw them in their armies.

Then she came to save Jon from a massive army and while she was fighting furiously, the night king was calmly hunting a dragon and used a special weapon that she didn't know existed.  

Could he have done the same again?  Sure, but it wouldn't have been as likely to work, and his focus, for whatever reason, was on bran.  (And that definitely wasn't fleshed out enough, but it may have been left intentionally vague for sequels/ prequels.)

They showed her get caught unaware by one of the giant crossbows.  Then they showed her fight a city that had them all over and she was able to dodge them.  It was the surprise that got her when the night king killed a dragon and again when the crossbow did it.  

They set these things up it just didn't hit the mark.  

There’s a level of pretentiousness from the people that read these books. They feel cheated out of their story. They got to hold the outcomes over peoples’ heads for years until we all had to watch it play out together. They don’t like the ending because they didn’t know it before everyone else. Had Martin written it this way they’d all have probably been fine with it. 

It wasn’t perfect. There were plenty of flaws. Prior adaptations on the show in earlier seasons weren’t perfect either. 

It kind of had to turn into a huge spectacle. Giant zombie battles and dragon meltdowns. How many seasons of Varys LittleFingering everyone can you watch? 

 

[Grahamburn]

Yea, whenever someone died on Game of Thrones, I always thought to myself, meh, I totally saw that coming. 

When you go back and rewatch the episodes prior to the big events the majority of the deaths are foreshadowed.