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Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory...NERDS already ruining a series that hasn't started (2 Viewers)

So, on the Dany front. That note was forged, right? And while Jorah did leak info early, the pardon has to be a play from Twyin and/or Varys.

Is Barristan Selmy a fox in the henhouse?

 
Next week is episode 9. Episode 9 is usually the one where #### truly hits the fan:

Season 1: Ned gets beheaded

Season 2: Battle of Blackwater

Season 3: Red Wedding

I think this one will be a doozy.

 
This hurts Dany. Ser Jorah was her greatest advisor. Short sighted on her part. That he's not dead, I think, means that this is not the last we hear of him.

 
Raider Nation said:
gump said:
Who gives a dusty ####....
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Great line.

I liked "Turns out, far too much has been written about great men and not nearly enough about morons." :lol:
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i don't know why, but "the pillar and the stones" made me giggle

What i want to know is how this show makes so many great characters everybody wants to see, yet 90% of the rest of TV can't create 1 character most people give a damn about. i would take a spin off of Prince Oberyn over everything but a handful of shows

 
Im sure I could draw up 1000 questions to nit pick at this show, but one just hit me tonight.

Why in the world are there only 102 men of the nights watch? They are getting scores of recruits every few weeks it seems just from guys who want to duck a crime. Sure some die and some probably dont pan out but they would become the cooks. When they were smuggling out Arya Stark they had what seemed like 10-15 new recruits didn't they?

 
Seppy:

"Don't worry about your death. Worry about your life. Take charge of your life, for as long as it lasts." -Littlefinger

When you have an episode called "The Mountain and the Viper," and you go in knowing the promise and the stakes of that title, and then the episode waits until the last five minutes or so to give you the match in question — and waits until only five minutes before that to provide a glimpse of the character we love whose future rides on the match's outcome — it can feel in a way like a championship fight with an extremely long undercard, where the promoter has placed every bum, tomato can and loser in his stable into the lineup because he knows the crowd will suffer through them in order to get to the main event.

Benioff and Weiss have very strategically inserted each of Ramsay Snow/Bolton's appearance so far this season, for instance, into episodes where they knew that all anyone would be talking about was the climax (first the wedding/assassination, then Tyrion's trial, and now the trial by combat), so of course we got more of his mind games with Theon/Reek, more blood and flaying, and all of House Bolton heading for the ruins of Winterfell to try to make it cozy in spite of the thorough job Ramsay did trashing it two seasons ago. And we get other assorted bits of lower-level business, like Arya and the Hound finally making it to the Vale (albeit perhaps three days too late to do much good), the wildlings getting ever-closer to Castle Black, and Grey Worm flirting with Missandei despite missing his stones (and possibly his pillar), along with slightly bigger plot developments like Dany exiling Jorah for spying on her back in season 1, and Sansa throwing in her lot with Littlefinger, and against the likely doomed Robin Arryn. I'm frankly stunned Benioff and Weiss didn't try giving us another Stannis monologue about the pain of being denied his birthright, simply because they knew we'd sit through virtually anything to get to that fight.

But I'll let it slide, for a couple of reasons:

First, while the undercard had some duds, it also offered plenty of terrific entertainment in its own right, particularly whenever one of the Stark sisters was involved.

And second? The fight was really worth the wait.

We'll hit the other action in the bullet points, but the episode kicked into a higher gear as soon as it got to King's Landing, first with Tyrion's story about their slow-witted cousin, then with the duel itself. The scene between the brothers was excellent, as any Tyrion-Jaime conversation tends to be, and specifically fascinating because of the seeming randomness of the cousin story. The tale is a reminder not only that Tyrion is no saint — he mocked the poor kid just so he could feel normal for once, and still laughs now as he imitates his brain-damaged speech — but that he is a very different creature from the rest of his family for reasons that go well beyond his stature. Jaime is baffled that Tyrion would be so obsessed with the ritualistic slaughter of beetles in a world where so many humans are brutally killed each and every day, but Tyrion doesn't think like Jaime, or Cersei, or Tywin, or anyone else. To him, the beetles weren't simply a measure of his cousin's madness, but a puzzle to be unlocked — and, in the process, explaining not only something practical that young Tyrion witnessed every day, but some larger mystery of the universe into which he was born so cruelly, and from which so many of those people his brother mentions exit so violently. It means nothing, and yet the randomness of it — and the fact that Tyrion knows he will go to his grave, whether in days or in many years, not knowing the answer — feels like exactly what would be occupying his mind as he waits for his life to be decided by the skill and wisdom of other men. That he cared so much about the beetles isn't a reason Tyrion Lannister should live or die, but the show's universe is vastly more interesting with such a man in it...

...which is why I assumed without any real hesitation that Oberyn would score the huge upset victory over the Mountain and secure Tyrion's life and freedom to the dismay of his father and sister. And for a while, that's exactly how the fight played out, with the big bully unprepared for the quickness, acrobatics and sheer ruthlessness of his smaller opponent. But then the Viper got a little too caught up in his Inigo Montoya routine, repeating his sister's name over and over, dancing around and taking pleasure in prolonging his foe's agony rather than delivering the killing blow. This was, of course, a fatal mistake — and a pretty gruesome one, too, as the Mountain crushed Oberyn's skull with his bare hands (and let's give all the Emmys in the world to both the sound and makeup teams for the job in bringing that moment to stomach-churning life), putting smiles back on Tywin and Cersei's faces and crushing the hopes of both Tyrion and his fans in the process.

It's a savage turn of events, and yet not an unfair one. Though Pedro Pascal's done well with his opportunities this season, Oberyn ultimately never developed into an important enough character to really justify him saving Tyrion's life in this way; his victory wouldn't have felt like a deus ex machina, but nor would it have felt entirely organic to the story, especially after Tyrion was already saved once by a previously obscure combatant. If Tyrion is somehow going to survive his current dire circumstances, I would hope it would be in a different way — and/or with him playing a more active role in his own salvation. And if he has run out of chances due to the Viper's preening? Well... I got over Ned Stark, though I was feeling much less affectionate towards him and his stupid head than I am to Tyrion at this point.

We'll see what fate has in store for the Imp. As for the Viper, it's his own fault for dancing around and not finishing the job. That was tough to watch, but also exciting as hell.

Some other thoughts:

* Arya's maniacal laughter at realizing that they've once again arrived at a potential safe haven right after one of her relatives has died was a thing of beauty by Maisie Williams, and the only reaction that seems reasonable in light of all she's been through over the last few years. I do wonder if they'll even bother going inside the Vale to investigate further (and therefore possibly learn of Sansa's existence, even if she's still traveling under a fake name), or simply go looking for some other port in this never-ending storm.

* Williams was matched by her on-screen sister Sophie Turner, who nearly convinced me of Sansa's version of Lady Arryn's death — and I had watched Littlefinger shover her out the Moon Door two weeks ago! Even though we know that Littlefinger's a snake, I also completely understand Sansa siding with the devil she knows over the many she doesn't. It could go horribly awry, but it's the first time in the life of the series she's really seized control of her destiny, and the very adult gown she wore when going to escort poor Robin on his tour of the Vale (a tour seemingly designed to end up with him dead or out of the way by the end of it) seemed appropriate. She's not the girl who was once smitten with Joffrey simply because he was a prince; this ordeal has aged her at least as much as it's aged the sister who's standing outside the gates of the Vale.

* The episode ends with the fate of the Mountain seemingly up in the air, but back when I assumed he was a goner for sure, I thought about his brother's comment to Arya about the pleasure of being there to watch the loop be closed, and figured he would be just as disappointed as she was at not getting to witness Joffrey's murder. Now? We'll see whether Ser Gregor still breathes — and, if so, whether the Hound still has the opportunity to see (or, better, cause) his death at a later date.

* Jorah's former treachery against his Khaleesi is a shoe the writers have waited a very long time to drop, and the way Emilia Clarke plays the scene, it's clear that the unforgivable sin isn't the spying itself, but specifically that he told Varys about her unborn child. That Jorah saved her from the assassination attempt and has fought by her side ever since is of no consequence to the Mother of Dragons, Breaker of Chains, Reader of "Garfield," and he becomes a new wildcard in the story.

* Director Alex Graves and his team did a nice job conveying the chaos of the wildling attack on the town near Castle Black, and the shot of the blood dripping from the ceiling right after Ygritte spared Gilly's life neatly conveyed just how lucky Gilly and baby Sam were to once again survive overwhelming odds.

* Again, I loathe pretty much every minute spent with Ramsay or Ramsay-adjacent characters — it's the one part of the show that seems to wallow in the misery and sadism that's so prevalent throughout the rest — but credit where it's due to Alfie Allen for his work playing Reek "pretending" to be Theon, before falling apart under the rightly-skeptical gaze of the Ironborn commander of Moat Cailin.

* Speaking of which, Moat Cailin gets a spot in the opening credits map (taking the place that Dreadfort has held for much of the season), but the Eyrie has yet to return to the title sequence, and we once again see Braavos despite no time spent there.

* Though the series' plot is very loosely based on England's War of the Roses, Littlefinger's line to the elders of the Vale about how everyone in Westeros came from somewhere else was more of an American idiom than an English one.
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I realized my heart was actually racing during the entire fight sequence. It's amazing how they can let you grow attached to a character over 4 years and minutes later let you know he's probably at the end of his story.

 
bigmarc27 said:
I realized my heart was actually racing during the entire fight sequence. It's amazing how they can let you grow attached to a character over 4 years and minutes later let you know he's probably at the end of his story.
Click to expand...
No way.

I haven't read the books. I have no idea what's going to happen. And I know that this show specializes in shocking deaths of people you never figured to die.

But despite all that, there is no way that Tyrion is going to be beheaded. He'll escape. Or something else will happen.

 
timschochet said:
bigmarc27 said:
I realized my heart was actually racing during the entire fight sequence. It's amazing how they can let you grow attached to a character over 4 years and minutes later let you know he's probably at the end of his story.
Click to expand...
No way.I haven't read the books. I have no idea what's going to happen. And I know that this show specializes in shocking deaths of people you never figured to die.

But despite all that, there is no way that Tyrion is going to be beheaded. He'll escape. Or something else will happen.
Click to expand...
Agree

No way he dies. Don't know how he gets out of it but no way he dies.

 
The Ref said:
Im sure I could draw up 1000 questions to nit pick at this show, but one just hit me tonight.

Why in the world are there only 102 men of the nights watch? They are getting scores of recruits every few weeks it seems just from guys who want to duck a crime. Sure some die and some probably dont pan out but they would become the cooks. When they were smuggling out Arya Stark they had what seemed like 10-15 new recruits didn't they?
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i'm guessing a ton of them went with the old captain when he got killed, and then you figure a bunch turned on them during the mutiny. i know it isn't a ton more, but maybe another 50-100

also consider probably nothing ever happens at this wall. and i'm guessing the trip is long (like a few months) so they only go once every year or 2

 
The Captain said:
timschochet said:
bigmarc27 said:
I realized my heart was actually racing during the entire fight sequence. It's amazing how they can let you grow attached to a character over 4 years and minutes later let you know he's probably at the end of his story.
Click to expand...
No way.I haven't read the books. I have no idea what's going to happen. And I know that this show specializes in shocking deaths of people you never figured to die.

But despite all that, there is no way that Tyrion is going to be beheaded. He'll escape. Or something else will happen.
Click to expand...
Agree

No way he dies. Don't know how he gets out of it but no way he dies.
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Maybe, maybe not. That's why I said probably.

I still think there's hope for a deal to be made with Jamie that'll free Tyrion, but it'd have to be done without Cersei knowing Tyrion was freed I'd guess. I hope he makes it out.

Either way, that was brutal. Beheadings and stabbings are pretty mundane compared to the Mountain going all Kano (mortal kombat reference) on someone.

 
The Ref said:
Im sure I could draw up 1000 questions to nit pick at this show, but one just hit me tonight.

Why in the world are there only 102 men of the nights watch? They are getting scores of recruits every few weeks it seems just from guys who want to duck a crime. Sure some die and some probably dont pan out but they would become the cooks. When they were smuggling out Arya Stark they had what seemed like 10-15 new recruits didn't they?
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I thought when jon first got to the wall, there was only 200-300 guys there, if that. since then, many have died ranging, during the first mutiny at crasters and during the second fight at crasters.

don't know why you think people are going there all the time. about the only "group" we saw heading there was the one ayra was in, and of the 20 recruits they were able to scrape up in kings landing, 0 made it there.

one of the main threads is how woefully undermanned the wall is and how that threat north of the wall should be much more worrisome than who sits on the throne.

 
If both die, then the fight is a draw officially I guess, but I have to give it to the Mountain, I am pretty sure he caused more pain then he received and he made a remarkable comeback when it looked like he was finished. It's a shame there can't be a rematch.

 
When Red Viper was walking around The Mountain and they kept showing Tyrion looking more and more panicked you knew it was big trouble for the Red Viper guy.

The punch to the head and followed by all of his teeth flying across the floor was hard to watch.

Only complaint about this show is that I wish they would draw out the most awesome scenes.

 
I wonder if they'll use the death of Oberyn to draw Dorne into conflict with the Lannisters, potentially lining them up to be the ally Khaleesi needs to launch her invasion into Westeros.

I really really hope Tyrion escapes somehow.

 
What was the deal with Sansa coming out at the end and looking all hot and slutty in the black dress? And why black? Felt like a statement scene but I couldn't figure out exactly what message it was supposed to convey. She's a grown up now? She's a little ruthless now? She "turned"? Other?

 
timschochet said:
bigmarc27 said:
I realized my heart was actually racing during the entire fight sequence. It's amazing how they can let you grow attached to a character over 4 years and minutes later let you know he's probably at the end of his story.
Click to expand...
No way.I haven't read the books. I have no idea what's going to happen. And I know that this show specializes in shocking deaths of people you never figured to die.

But despite all that, there is no way that Tyrion is going to be beheaded. He'll escape. Or something else will happen.
Click to expand...
same way i felt until about 5 seconds before Ned Stark got beheaded
 
I was thinking the same thing Sep did...seemed lazy to have Tyrion win again by trial by combat. Glad it didn't go that route.

 
The Ref said:
Im sure I could draw up 1000 questions to nit pick at this show, but one just hit me tonight.

Why in the world are there only 102 men of the nights watch? They are getting scores of recruits every few weeks it seems just from guys who want to duck a crime. Sure some die and some probably dont pan out but they would become the cooks. When they were smuggling out Arya Stark they had what seemed like 10-15 new recruits didn't they?
Click to expand...
1) They lost a lot of men to The Others when they went on the Ranging in the North.

2) More than a few mutineered.

3) (Something that they've said or at least hinted in the earlier seasons) The Nights Watch is viewed as something of a farce these days. Noone really believes in The Others, Giants, etc. etc. and while the WIldlings are there....they aren't a big threat.

 
Jamie will help out his bro I think. Are we to think that since breast feeder aunt is dead that Arya & the hound turned away from the vale after Arya stopped laughing?

 
Otis said:
What was the deal with Sansa coming out at the end and looking all hot and slutty in the black dress? And why black? Felt like a statement scene but I couldn't figure out exactly what message it was supposed to convey. She's a grown up now? She's a little ruthless now? She "turned"? Other?
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The innocence is gone now with her lie. She's now playing the Game of Thrones.

 
Sabertooth said:
Otis said:
What was the deal with Sansa coming out at the end and looking all hot and slutty in the black dress? And why black? Felt like a statement scene but I couldn't figure out exactly what message it was supposed to convey. She's a grown up now? She's a little ruthless now? She "turned"? Other?
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The innocence is gone now with her lie. She's now playing the Game of Thrones.
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That's more or less how I took it. I also took it to mean she is now fully on team little finger.

 
NIU Kicker said:
Sabertooth said:
Otis said:
What was the deal with Sansa coming out at the end and looking all hot and slutty in the black dress? And why black? Felt like a statement scene but I couldn't figure out exactly what message it was supposed to convey. She's a grown up now? She's a little ruthless now? She "turned"? Other?
Click to expand...
The innocence is gone now with her lie. She's now playing the Game of Thrones.
Click to expand...
That's more or less how I took it. I also took it to mean she is now fully on team little finger.
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Not necessarily on his team, just she's him for what he is which puts her on equal footing. She's always been at everyone's mercy, so equal footing is a huge upgrade.

 
God Bless this show. All we heard about before the season was the addition of the Red Viper beloved characheter from the several pages if paper hung together by a binder.

So much for that.

Just wow. I shouldn't be, but I'm speechless as the Red Wedding.

 
timschochet said:
bigmarc27 said:
I realized my heart was actually racing during the entire fight sequence. It's amazing how they can let you grow attached to a character over 4 years and minutes later let you know he's probably at the end of his story.
Click to expand...
No way.

I haven't read the books. I have no idea what's going to happen. And I know that this show specializes in shocking deaths of people you never figured to die.

But despite all that, there is no way that Tyrion is going to be beheaded. He'll escape. Or something else will happen.
Click to expand...
Yeah, i would be stunned if Tyrion dies because he lost the battle. We were all stunned that Ned actually was killed when he was sentenced to die but this show loves surprising deaths and killing Tyrion in this manner would be lame for this show. For some reason, even though so many of the characters have been killed I always assume that Tyrion and Arya along with Khaleesi would be spared on this show, until the later seasons of course. Killing Tyrion or Arya would truly shock me.

Looks like next week's preview is about the wall, am I the only one who doesnt give a dusty #### about the wall mishaps?

 
fruity pebbles said:
Gotta figure Tyrion's saving grace is that the Mountain dies too, ultimately leaving it a draw.
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I don't understand this and it's not the first place I've seen it... What makes you think the Mountain is dead? If he can muster up enough strength to crush a guy's head, he can probably battle through a spear wound. He was never finished off.

Also Tywin already pronounced Tyrion is to be put to death - something tells me there's not going to be any appeals or technicalities in the King's Landing legal system for Tyrion.

I'm not saying he doesn't make it out of this, but I don't think it's for the reason you're saying.

 
Otis said:
What was the deal with Sansa coming out at the end and looking all hot and slutty in the black dress? And why black? Felt like a statement scene but I couldn't figure out exactly what message it was supposed to convey. She's a grown up now? She's a little ruthless now? She "turned"? Other?
Click to expand...
pretty clear the show was sending us a message that Sansa would stop being the tormented gal she has been and start becoming ruthless and using her sexuality to further her objectives

 
biggamer3 said:
timschochet said:
bigmarc27 said:
I realized my heart was actually racing during the entire fight sequence. It's amazing how they can let you grow attached to a character over 4 years and minutes later let you know he's probably at the end of his story.
Click to expand...
No way.I haven't read the books. I have no idea what's going to happen. And I know that this show specializes in shocking deaths of people you never figured to die.

But despite all that, there is no way that Tyrion is going to be beheaded. He'll escape. Or something else will happen.
Click to expand...
Yeah, i would be stunned if Tyrion dies because he lost the battle. We were all stunned that Ned actually was killed when he was sentenced to die but this show loves surprising deaths and killing Tyrion in this manner would be lame for this show. For some reason, even though so many of the characters have been killed I always assume that Tyrion and Arya along with Khaleesi would be spared on this show, until the later seasons of course. Killing Tyrion or Arya would truly shock me.Looks like next week's preview is about the wall, am I the only one who doesnt give a dusty #### about the wall mishaps?
Click to expand...
The only thing I really don't care about is Stannis.

Worst. character. Ever.

 
Otis said:
What was the deal with Sansa coming out at the end and looking all hot and slutty in the black dress? And why black? Felt like a statement scene but I couldn't figure out exactly what message it was supposed to convey. She's a grown up now? She's a little ruthless now? She "turned"? Other?
Click to expand...
didn't her hair color change too?

my take was that she knows her best chance in life right now might be to ride it out with littlefinger. she might be taking more control of her situation by trying to look more like the one woman littlefinger claims he loved.

 
bigmarc27 said:
biggamer3 said:
timschochet said:
bigmarc27 said:
I realized my heart was actually racing during the entire fight sequence. It's amazing how they can let you grow attached to a character over 4 years and minutes later let you know he's probably at the end of his story.
Click to expand...
No way.I haven't read the books. I have no idea what's going to happen. And I know that this show specializes in shocking deaths of people you never figured to die.

But despite all that, there is no way that Tyrion is going to be beheaded. He'll escape. Or something else will happen.
Click to expand...
Yeah, i would be stunned if Tyrion dies because he lost the battle. We were all stunned that Ned actually was killed when he was sentenced to die but this show loves surprising deaths and killing Tyrion in this manner would be lame for this show. For some reason, even though so many of the characters have been killed I always assume that Tyrion and Arya along with Khaleesi would be spared on this show, until the later seasons of course. Killing Tyrion or Arya would truly shock me.Looks like next week's preview is about the wall, am I the only one who doesnt give a dusty #### about the wall mishaps?
Click to expand...
The only thing I really don't care about is Stannis.

Worst. character. Ever.
Click to expand...
Though his story has been redeemed by the queen of teeters who loves to go nekkid

 
biggamer3 said:
bigmarc27 said:
biggamer3 said:
timschochet said:
bigmarc27 said:
I realized my heart was actually racing during the entire fight sequence. It's amazing how they can let you grow attached to a character over 4 years and minutes later let you know he's probably at the end of his story.
Click to expand...
No way.I haven't read the books. I have no idea what's going to happen. And I know that this show specializes in shocking deaths of people you never figured to die.

But despite all that, there is no way that Tyrion is going to be beheaded. He'll escape. Or something else will happen.
Click to expand...
Yeah, i would be stunned if Tyrion dies because he lost the battle. We were all stunned that Ned actually was killed when he was sentenced to die but this show loves surprising deaths and killing Tyrion in this manner would be lame for this show. For some reason, even though so many of the characters have been killed I always assume that Tyrion and Arya along with Khaleesi would be spared on this show, until the later seasons of course. Killing Tyrion or Arya would truly shock me.Looks like next week's preview is about the wall, am I the only one who doesnt give a dusty #### about the wall mishaps?
Click to expand...
The only thing I really don't care about is Stannis.Worst. character. Ever.
Click to expand...
Though his story has been redeemed by the queen of teeters who loves to go nekkid
Click to expand...
the nips are hard and full of terrors
 
bigmarc27 said:
fruity pebbles said:
Gotta figure Tyrion's saving grace is that the Mountain dies too, ultimately leaving it a draw.
Click to expand...
I don't understand this and it's not the first place I've seen it... What makes you think the Mountain is dead? If he can muster up enough strength to crush a guy's head, he can probably battle through a spear wound. He was never finished off.

Also Tywin already pronounced Tyrion is to be put to death - something tells me there's not going to be any appeals or technicalities in the King's Landing legal system for Tyrion.

I'm not saying he doesn't make it out of this, but I don't think it's for the reason you're saying.
Click to expand...
He took a spear deep in the abdomen and Oberyn kept saying oh no you're dying, you can't die yet. Takes a little while to die from that but since this is like our medieval times and theres no operations etc, he's a goner from what i saw.

 
fruity pebbles said:
bigmarc27 said:
fruity pebbles said:
Gotta figure Tyrion's saving grace is that the Mountain dies too, ultimately leaving it a draw.
Click to expand...
I don't understand this and it's not the first place I've seen it... What makes you think the Mountain is dead? If he can muster up enough strength to crush a guy's head, he can probably battle through a spear wound. He was never finished off.

Also Tywin already pronounced Tyrion is to be put to death - something tells me there's not going to be any appeals or technicalities in the King's Landing legal system for Tyrion.

I'm not saying he doesn't make it out of this, but I don't think it's for the reason you're saying.
Click to expand...
He took a spear deep in the abdomen and Oberyn kept saying oh no you're dying, you can't die yet. Takes a little while to die from that but since this is like our medieval times and theres no operations etc, he's a goner from what i saw.
Click to expand...
It's a phyrric victory for The Mountain; a huge win for Cersei and Tywin, a huge loss for Oberyn and Tyrion. But, at the end of the contest...there's one man left living. That man wins.

 
I agree with what that reviewer wrote about Ramsey Bolton-Snow. I don't root for him; I don't root against him. I just want him and Reek off the screen. Worst part of the show.

 
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