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Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory...NERDS already ruining a series that hasn't started (6 Viewers)

Don't Noonan said:
Good question.  Or was that another brother of Dany?  I hated that guy
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That was Visaerys - middle child between Rhaegar and Danaerys, seemed to inherit all his daddy's crazy before he got killed by molten costume jewelry. All legitimate children of mad king Aerys.

 
Foosball God said:
By half nephew I mean they only have half of your bloodline.   That is the very definition of a nephew.  Jon isn't any less of a nephew than any other kid of Rheagar's would be.
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They have a definition for half nephew, you didn't need to make one up.  See my edited post above.

 
stbugs said:
Again, huge leap in the bolded. No one has ever suspected that. Don't you think that would have actually come up as a rumor, like how everyone knows that Cersei and Jamie fathered Robert's kids? My biggest evidence is how close Littlefinger and Catelyn were and yet even Ned's wife was 100% convinced that Jon was Ned's *******. If Ned could hide that from Catelyn, how can we take a leap that Littlefinger thinks Jon isn't Ned's son. Littlefinger called him the ******* born in the south when talking to Sansa. He was expecting the people to rally around Sansa and he erred in that assumption. I don't see how that would jump to him questioning him being Ned's *******.

It is very easy for us to conjecture because we know and because in the book (from Thunderlips post) it was sort of revealed early. Has there been a single bit of evidence in the show that people think Jon is not Ned's son, not that people doubt Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna.
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Someone else noted that Stannis and Robert were surprised that Ned had a *******. It's certainly inconsistent with his character. LF may have motivation now to do some more research, and he's a plugged in guy. No one is saying LF knows at this point, but if the writers go in that direction next year, no one should throw up their hands in frustration about how absurd it was that LF became suspicious and figured it out. 

 
thecatch said:
Someone else noted that Stannis and Robert were surprised that Ned had a *******. It's certainly inconsistent with his character. LF may have motivation now to do some more research, and he's a plugged in guy. No one is saying LF knows at this point, but if the writers go in that direction next year, no one should throw up their hands in frustration about how absurd it was that LF became suspicious and figured it out. 
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Littlefinger must have watched S07 E06

 
bostonfred said:
But even this show shies away from having men fight women.  Yeah,  geoffrey and randy tortured girls but they were Villains.  The lannister daughter died of lesbianism.  Long hair guy didn't hit Arya with a stick, they invented a girl to do it and she still died off camera.   It would be a surprise if Jamie offed her but it would make sense for his arc. 
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Tell that to Brienne.

There aren't that many women warriors in the show but there is plenty of violence perpetrated by men against women (and women against men).

 
stbugs said:
Again, huge leap in the bolded. No one has ever suspected that. Don't you think that would have actually come up as a rumor, like how everyone knows that Cersei and Jamie fathered Robert's kids? My biggest evidence is how close Littlefinger and Catelyn were and yet even Ned's wife was 100% convinced that Jon was Ned's *******. If Ned could hide that from Catelyn, how can we take a leap that Littlefinger thinks Jon isn't Ned's son. Littlefinger called him the ******* born in the south when talking to Sansa. He was expecting the people to rally around Sansa and he erred in that assumption. I don't see how that would jump to him questioning him being Ned's *******.

It is very easy for us to conjecture because we know and because in the book (from Thunderlips post) it was sort of revealed early. Has there been a single bit of evidence in the show that people think Jon is not Ned's son, not that people doubt Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfnl9owFc84

Littlefinger looks like he has something to say after Sansa says of the kidnap and rape.  

I'm on the fence in regards to television show Littlefinger knowing.

  1) He was at the tourney at Harrenhal and saw it all go down.  

  2) There were other people present at the birth. The book only mentioned Howland Reed and Ned.

  3) Other people have found the idea of Ned having a ******* unusual....although they all accepted it as true.

Littlefinger has the ability to get just about any piece of information he wants. He was obsessed with Cat Stark and wanted to marry her.  I don't think it would be a stretch to say that the guy turned over every stone in regards to Ned and Cat in an effort to get information that might get him Cat.   

ETA: I'd also say that Cat probably believed it from Ned because Ned (show and book) has more or less been defined as the epitome of honor and truthfullness.  

 
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stbugs said:
Littlefinger says he was a boy when he saw that tournament and while he likely thinks that it wasn't kidnap/rape, how would that one event lead him to knowing about Jon. Ned had said from the beginning Jon was his ******* son. Littlefinger knew Ned through Catelyn, he wasn't friends with Ned. I still don't see how this shows anything other than him not believing that Rhaegar took Lyanna by force. I doubt Littlefinger as a kid would have presumed that there was a child and that that child was Jon. We have seen no inkling of this rumor from anyone who knows Jon and/or Ned. This isn't like the Jamie/Cersei rumor where lots of people suspect Tommen et al were their children.
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It's true there's no rumor of who the mother of the child Ned brought back from the war. It's a plot hole. Why would it be so difficult for someone to figure out enough to at least suspect it? Ned had a reputation for being very moral. He goes off to war and when he comes back from the Tower of Joy he brings a child with him, claims he is the father, and never explains to anyone who the mother was. Nobody even wonders about it.  It doesn't seem possible that no one would match Jon's age to the time Lyanna was with Rhaegar and at least suspect.

 
Insomniac said:
It's true there's no rumor of who the mother of the child Ned brought back from the war. It's a plot hole. Why would it be so difficult for someone to figure out enough to at least suspect it? Ned had a reputation for being very moral. He goes off to war and when he comes back from the Tower of Joy he brings a child with him, claims he is the father, and never explains to anyone who the mother was. Nobody even wonders about it.  It doesn't seem possible that no one would match Jon's age to the time Lyanna was with Rhaegar and at least suspect.
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Ned told people Jon's mother was a tavern girl named Wylla. He had a conversation about it with Robert in Season 1.

 
kneeshooter said:
Ned told people Jon's mother was a tavern girl named Wylla. He had a conversation about it with Robert in Season 1.
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Nobody questioned him further about it, even Robert, because he was Ned Stark but there are examples on the show of prominent people who didn't believe he was Jon's father. Again, no one before now has cared enough about Jon Snow to dig into his past. But his life and stature have changed now. If anyone has any doubts that he isn't Ned Stark's son and believes exposing that lie can be used against him it seems pretty obvious they're going to investigate and try to do it. And who on this show right now is in the No. 1 position most likely to want to discredit Jon? 

I'm not saying Little Finger knows who Jon's parents are. I'm saying he doesn't appear to believe what happened at the Tower of Joy (events which anyone with simple math skills can figure out match up exactly with when Ned brought Jon home) and now he has a reason to expose Jon Snow. So he clearly could begin to dig into Jon's past in an effort to discredit him. I'm only speculating that the North finding out Jon isn't Ned's son will hurt him there. Maybe it won't at all and if that's the case than if Little Finger does find out the truth it isn't something he can use against Jon. But Little Finger clearly would seem to be in a position to dig into Jon's past now. I wouldn't be surprised if that's what we find him doing when Season 7 begins. 

 
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packersfan said:
Nobody questioned him further about it, even Robert, because he was Ned Stark but there are examples on the show of prominent people who didn't believe he was Jon's father. Again, no one before now has cared enough about Jon Snow to dig into his past. But his life and stature have changed now. If anyone has any doubts that he isn't Ned Stark's son and believes exposing that lie can be used against him it seems pretty obvious they're going to investigate and try to do it. And who on this show right now is in the No. 1 position most likely to want to discredit Jon? 

I'm not saying Little Finger knows who Jon's parents are. I'm saying he doesn't appear to believe what happened at the Tower of Joy (events which anyone with simple math skills can figure out match up exactly with when Ned brought Jon home) and now he has a reason to expose Jon Snow. So he clearly could begin to dig into Jon's past in an effort to discredit him. I'm only speculating that the North finding out Jon isn't Ned's son will hurt him there. Maybe it won't at all and if that's the case than if Little Finger does find out the truth it isn't something he can use against Jon. But Little Finger clearly would seem to be in a position to dig into Jon's past now. I wouldn't be surprised if that's what we find him doing when Season 7 begins. 
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Who are the examples that actually didn't believe Ned? Robert joked that he thought it was funny that even Ned had a ******* even as good a guy as he was (since Robert had tons of bastards). He never made a comment about Jon not being Ned's son. Someone posted that LF and Sansa in the crypt about LF figuring out Jon was Lyanna and Rhaegar's kid, but that scene had 0 to do with Jon and everything to do with not believing Lyanna was forced against her will to be with Rhaegar. I'd be happy to re-watch those scenes because I just don't see the leap that LF will figure it out when even he hasn't doubted it at all and specifically made a comment about Jon being a ******* from the south.

I do think Jon's background will come up, no doubt it will, but I can't imagine it coming from anyone but Bran otherwise all his seeing of the Tower of Joy was meaningless. What digging can LF even do? He can't talk to Ned, sure can't question Robert and Stannis about what Ned was doing in the war. Lyanna and Rhaegar aren't good sources. Howland Reed according to his kids never said anything to them about the battles and cried when he heard Ned died. He's not spilling anything about Ned.

 
stbugs said:
I do think Jon's background will come up, no doubt it will, but I can't imagine it coming from anyone but Bran otherwise all his seeing of the Tower of Joy was meaningless. What digging can LF even do? He can't talk to Ned, sure can't question Robert and Stannis about what Ned was doing in the war. Lyanna and Rhaegar aren't good sources. Howland Reed according to his kids never said anything to them about the battles and cried when he heard Ned died. He's not spilling anything about Ned.
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I am trying to figure out how exactly anyone would even believe Bran? I know the starks will believe him but everyone else is going to just go along with his "vision" because he says he can go back in time in his mind?

 
mozzy84 said:
I am trying to figure out how exactly anyone would even believe Bran? I know the starks will believe him but everyone else is going to just go along with his "vision" because he says he can go back in time in his mind?
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Great point. Reed is really the only person who could confirm it. That's part of my thing on LF. Even if he somehow puts it together (still don't think that's possible), who believes him over Ned Stark's word?

 
Scoresman said:
Been working on predictions more:

- Urine Greyjoy, realizing he has no shot with Dany, offers his ships (And his ####) to Cersei. Because the Greyjoys are good with boats, and the Dothraki are afraid of the sea, Urine does a lot of damage.  In the end however, the dragons turn the tide.  Dany takes her depleted fleet and heads North to regroup.

- Dany meets Jon around the same time Bran shows up to tell them they are related.  Sansa gets pissed and jealous and reluctantly heads south with Littlefinger.

- Jamie and Bronn kill Cersei and are forced to take the black.  On the way North he meets Jon and Dany who pardon him. Jamie joins up with them.  A nice tearful reunion with Tyrion takes place.  Beer is drunk, whores are ####ed.   

- The white walkers start invading places south of the wall.  The night's watch is decimated.  Jon, Dany, and crew decide to take their army South to regroup.  

- Arya continues her list and then reunites with the Hound.  He cusses a lot and Arya doesnt kill him.  They end up joining with Jon and Dany.  

- Meanwhile in KL, Littlefinger has weaseled his way into the iron throne with help from the red witch, Melissa Anders.  Varys marches ahead of the group and kills LF.  Davos kills the red witch.  Jon and Dany arrive and they want to make Jon the king.  At first people say "but he's a Stark ******* he has no claim".  Then Maester Sam shows up with a book that proves Jon's lineage and he says "oh no you di-int!".  Jon ultimately says he doesnt want the throne and bows to Queen Dany instead.  

- A despondent Sansa falls in love with Tyrion, recalling that he's the only dude to ever treat her good.  Tyrion says something profound like "I've had whores from the wall all the way to Mereen, but you m'lady, are the fairest of all of them."  They have sex.  

- The ultimate battle with the white walkers takes place.  Jamie, Bronn, Davos die in combat.  The dragons do lots of damage but are killed.  Bran worgs into the future and sees the white walkers' plans which helps Jon and his army set a trap and wipe them all out.  
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I like this and would like to purchase some of your weed.

 
roadkill1292 said:
I like this and would like to purchase some of your weed.
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Nice list, but I really hope Euron doesn't somehow magically make a 1000 ships and sail to Mereen in the amount of time it took Yara to go to Mereen. I like all the time jumps where you aren't really sure when each scene happens, but there should be no possible way that Euron can make the same number of ships that Yara has from scratch before Yara gets back from Mereen. There aren't that many people in the Iron Islands left and each able bodied sailor would have to make his own ship in a month or so.

 
Stannis clearly didn't believe Ned cheated on his wife. No question about that. 

I'm not gonna repeat my point. I've said it about a half a dozen times already and I can't explain it any more clearly. Like I said I'm just speculating based on all that's come before/ I obviously might be wrong but the fun of all this is trying to figure out where things are gonna go next. Plenty of time to do a lot of that till Season 7. 

I think the show will play with R + L = J now and there's no question in my mind Little Finger will be working to take down Jon and the best way to do that will be to invalidate his position as Ned Stark's son which R + L = J obviously does. It also does a whole lot more but Little Finger doesn't know about all that and may wish he never pursued that path to the truth assuming he does.

 
My prediction:

Littlefinger knows something is up but he can't put his finger on it. Dany meets Jon. Dany thinks she sees a ghost because Jon looks exactly like her father. So much so, Dany spreads the word about Jon looking like her father. Word spreads. Littlefinger hears from Varys this new rumor. Littlefinger finds Reed. Reed confirms. LIttlefinger mentions this rumor to a whore in a whore house. The whore appreciates the news. The whore kills Littlefinger. The whore is Arya. Reed dies. Arya is the only person who knows about Jon. Jon rules the North. Dany rules Westeros. Dany marries Lady Mormont. Tyrion dies when he's 100 and serving as hand of the queen his whole life. Dany dies. Jon dies. White Walkers return. White Walkers rule the world. 

 
stbugs said:
Great point. Reed is really the only person who could confirm it. That's part of my thing on LF. Even if he somehow puts it together (still don't think that's possible), who believes him over Ned Stark's word?
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Why would the Lord's of the North believe anything Littlefinger said anyway. Sansa could tell them all kinds of things about Littlefinger. 

 
I hope we get a six feet under style ending, seeing where everyone ends up when they eventually die.  It would make sense with so many characters dying all the time, right?

 
packersfan said:
Stannis clearly didn't believe Ned cheated on his wife. No question about that. 

I'm not gonna repeat my point. I've said it about a half a dozen times already and I can't explain it any more clearly. Like I said I'm just speculating based on all that's come before/ I obviously might be wrong but the fun of all this is trying to figure out where things are gonna go next. Plenty of time to do a lot of that till Season 7. 

I think the show will play with R + L = J now and there's no question in my mind Little Finger will be working to take down Jon and the best way to do that will be to invalidate his position as Ned Stark's son which R + L = J obviously does. It also does a whole lot more but Little Finger doesn't know about all that and may wish he never pursued that path to the truth assuming he does.
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Hey, I'll stop as well with this post. It just sucks that the shows over for a while after the last two episodes. Sure made up for the Terminator chase scene.

Stannis is dead, so really doesn't matter about him and Littlefinger wasn't his friend. Stannis' wife believed it and I don't see anything in that video where Stannis didn't believe he was Ned's kid. He knew what kind of a guy Ned was, kind of like Robert who was surprised as well. Littlefinger wasn't close to Ned like the Baratheons were. Jamie of all people 100% believed Jon was Ned's *******. Even Maester Aemon didn't ever say anything about Jon being Rhaegar's son.

Jon's parents will play a huge role, no doubt about it. There is no need for Bran's looking into the past if it wasn't going to come up. You may think it is the best way to invalidate Jon's position and I don't think LF has any clue or the ability to find out for sure anyway. Personally, I think if anything, it would invalidate his position with the rest of the houses behind Jon if he tried to make that accusation. They aren't going to believe Littlefinger. I think he'll try to undercut Jon, but not through his parents unless he finds out from Bran. I think Bran is the only one who truly knows and will be part of the show (unlike Reed).

 
Mario Kart said:
My prediction:

Littlefinger knows something is up but he can't put his finger on it. Dany meets Jon. Dany thinks she sees a ghost because Jon looks exactly like her father. So much so, Dany spreads the word about Jon looking like her father. Word spreads. Littlefinger hears from Varys this new rumor. Littlefinger finds Reed. Reed confirms. LIttlefinger mentions this rumor to a whore in a whore house. The whore appreciates the news. The whore kills Littlefinger. The whore is Arya. Reed dies. Arya is the only person who knows about Jon. Jon rules the North. Dany rules Westeros. Dany marries Lady Mormont. Tyrion dies when he's 100 and serving as hand of the queen his whole life. Dany dies. Jon dies. White Walkers return. White Walkers rule the world. 
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Jamie served the mad king (Dany's father) and he didn't notice the family resemblance? I think there are more than a few people that met the mad king and Jon and never noticed.

Also, one small problem in your theory. Dany was born after her father died, so there's that.

 
stbugs said:
thecatch said:
LF suspects Ned isn't the father. LF suspects Lyanna wasn't kidnapped/raped. LF realizes Ned showed up with baby Jon and Lyanna's body about 9 months after Lyanna goes missing. This isn't rocket science - we don't have reason to believe LF has done the paternity math yet, but it's certainly plausible he could put the pieces together. (What that would gain him and how that would advance the plot, I'm not sure, but that's a separate issue.)
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Again, huge leap in the bolded. No one has ever suspected that. Don't you think that would have actually come up as a rumor, like how everyone knows that Cersei and Jamie fathered Robert's kids? My biggest evidence is how close Littlefinger and Catelyn were and yet even Ned's wife was 100% convinced that Jon was Ned's *******. If Ned could hide that from Catelyn, how can we take a leap that Littlefinger thinks Jon isn't Ned's son. Littlefinger called him the ******* born in the south when talking to Sansa. He was expecting the people to rally around Sansa and he erred in that assumption. I don't see how that would jump to him questioning him being Ned's *******.

It is very easy for us to conjecture because we know and because in the book (from Thunderlips post) it was sort of revealed early. Has there been a single bit of evidence in the show that people think Jon is not Ned's son, not that people doubt Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna.
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wasn't there a bit of discussion by a character or various characters early in the show about how out of character it was for Ned to have a *******?

eta: nm... seems to all have been discussed enough.

 
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the moops said:
Glad you book readers still can't hep yourselves
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Book readers don't know any more than show watchers in this regard.  Since Maggie never mentioned the valonqar in the show, they're not bound by it.  It's a pretty big driving force behind some of Cersei's actions in the books, so I'd say its exclusion from the show was quite intentional.  They have flexibility with her death.

 
I just had somebody in my office explain the Jon Snow birth origins stuff...I'm guessing about 1/20 viewers actually understand it...that was way too hidden for your average viewer to be able to follow.

 
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they show a closeup of newborn eyes then pan immediately to closeup of Jon's eyes. pretty obvious that the baby in the tower was in fact Jon Snow

 
stbugs said:
Jamie served the mad king (Dany's father) and he didn't notice the family resemblance? I think there are more than a few people that met the mad king and Jon and never noticed.

Also, one small problem in your theory. Dany was born after her father died, so there's that.
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Maybe the Mad King is not really Dany's father. Boom!

 
Quez said:
Sorry, I thought it was mentioned in the show.  I haven't read the books, but I am an avid interwebz reader. :nerd:
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I realize it was an accident but why are book readers such as yourself even posting in this thread at all, especially about story stuff?  That was the whole point of this thread, so book readers would have their own thread to post in where they couldn't accidentally spoil stuff.

This thread wasn't created because book readers were intentionally spoiling stuff.  It was created because they were accidentally spoiling stuff by using their knowledge from the books.  The show runners left that bit of information out for a reason.  Maybe because they wanted us to be surprised when it happened.  But now when it likely does, we won't be surprised, because another book reader screwed up and couldn't keep his mouth shut.

Making predictions based on book knowledge that's not available in the shows is a form of spoiler.  It's annoying because even the "best" of book readers who really don't mean to spoil things do it on accident fairly regularly.  And then there are the bad book readers like Sinn Feinn that need to just Tommen out of a window already.  

 
FreeBaGeL said:
Quez said:
Sorry, I thought it was mentioned in the show.  I haven't read the books, but I am an avid interwebz reader. :nerd:
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I realize it was an accident but why are book readers such as yourself even posting in this thread at all, especially about story stuff?  That was the whole point of this thread, so book readers would have their own thread to post in where they couldn't accidentally spoil stuff.

This thread wasn't created because book readers were intentionally spoiling stuff.  It was created because they were accidentally spoiling stuff by using their knowledge from the books.  The show runners left that bit of information out for a reason.  Maybe because they wanted us to be surprised when it happened.  But now when it likely does, we won't be surprised, because another book reader screwed up and couldn't keep his mouth shut.

Making predictions based on book knowledge that's not available in the shows is a form of spoiler.  It's annoying because even the "best" of book readers who really don't mean to spoil things do it on accident fairly regularly.  And then there are the bad book readers like Sinn Feinn that need to just Tommen out of a window already.  
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I want to post a really cool youtube video thats a mashup of Black Sabbath's War Pigs with GoT scenes but the video shows boobs and we're apparently trying to keep this place PG rated.  

 
Now that the show has overtaken the books I don't see any reason to keep seperate threads going.  The books aren't likely to outright spoil anything.  And if you don't want supplemental information and rampant speculation then the internet probably isn't the best place for you.

 
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