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Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory...NERDS already ruining a series that hasn't started (7 Viewers)

El Floppo said:
speaking of Jon...  that look he made back as the door closed on the wall tunnel- was that his way of saying adios to "duty" and the watch? just riding off with his buds into the great white north? or do you guys think he was just going on a ride-along up north, with the intent to return?
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He's done with Westeros........... until Drogon shows back up in 15 years and it turns out he, Tormund, Ghost, a half-giant woman that Tormund smiles at lovingly, and a beautiful redheaded woman that constantly scoffs at Jon are needed to save the realm once again.  They meet up with Arya(who just got back from discovering land to the west) on their way south.... cue the A team theme.

 
Abrantes said:
Show Tyrion finding a massive pile of rubble. Show him moving a brick or two. Cut away to a different scene. Cut back to Tyrion, exhausted, having made some headway but still digging through the pile, finally spotting Jaime's hand.

Not that hard.

Edit: For the record, I didn't mind the scene at all, but "what, you want us to spend a half hour watching him dig?" is a silly argument. 
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If Tyrion doesn't see Jaime's hand first, how does he know which pile of rubble to dig in?

 
After rewatching last night I am still blown away with how great the story is and the overall dialogue.  The Jon/tryion scene and the following dany scene makes total sense after seeing it again.

The major gripe I have now is that the overall story was strongly focused on Dany and her dragons.  That was the trump card throughout each season.  Then the basically ignored it in the end and wrote it off with a vague one line from Bran that he would look for the dragon.  Yeah and then what?  That was a cheap ending to a major point in the story.  It would have been kick ### if the last show shot the dragon swooping in overhead as jon went into the woods with the North.  Implying Jon has the dragon now.

 
Good Posting Judge said:
Not for nothing, Bran's prob an incredible choice for King. I'm just skeptical that everyone would be like :shrug: sounds good let's go with this guy who we don't really know much about for the next 50 years or so.
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This isn’t mine, but some think Bran is technically the Great Other now and the champion of the COTF. I thought I was going to be able I quote a post from last night to show a lot of the detail, but the bullet pointed post didn’t go into it as I thought I remembered. Regardless, it does make sense, and the show couldn’t really go into it since it never even mentioned the Great Other. Bran may be the guy who Martin always was going to put on the throne, but D&D never told that story. It’s like fans have been playing chess against two guys who didn’t know the rules, moved pieces around the board haphazardly, and then someone walks by and says, “they’ve got you in checkmate.” Yeah, Dany was always supposed to turn, but as a video someone linked yesterday argued, foreshadowing (“don’t be your dad”) isn’t character development. Bran getting the throne largely based on a dwarf on trial giving a speech is not good storytelling. 

 
shader said:
It seems like a lot of people were watching the show to see “who would win”.  I’m surprised that more people aren’t happy that Tyrion was ultimately the winner. He basically became the most important man in Westeros and crushed the power of the king.

To me Bran being the king proved how unimportant the position is now.  Everyone throughout the series that went for power is dead.  The throne destroyed everyone, aside from Tyrion.  

The idea that OMG I WATCHED 8 SEASONS AND BRAN WON is silly.  Bran was the most unimpressive nobody that Tyrion could think of.  
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Partially agree.  Being King or Queen is unimportant.  That has been the case since Season 1 when Robert was King and Ned's first council meeting where he was so surprised at just how much of a mess things were. 

Where I disagree is that Bran is literally the most powerful of all the characters because he is immune from "the game".  He can't be lied to and he is also unconcerned with power both keeping it and obtaining more of it.  It wasn't a coincidence that the council didn't have a Master of Whisperers and a Master of War.  It was symbolism that those things were no longer needed.  The small council is now forced to do things differently because they have to answer to someone who already knows what they are going to do and say.  If Tyrion was really looking for someone to easily manipulate, he would have literally chosen anyone other than Bran.  If Tyrion wanted an unimpressive nobody that he could control, he would have chosen Gendry, who was the last remaining Baratheon.  

 
mozzy84 said:
Dothraki were probably fine going back to their homeland and doing whatever they do all over again.
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At least with the unsullied we see/hear where they are going. The Dothraki just never get show again. Really get the shaft in this story, when without them and their connection to Dany none of this happens

 
pantherclub said:
The major gripe I have now is that the overall story was strongly focused on Dany and her dragons.  That was the trump card throughout each season.  Then the basically ignored it in the end and wrote it off with a vague one line from Bran that he would look for the dragon.  Yeah and then what?  That was a cheap ending to a major point in the story.
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Samer goes with the Night King and all that ####. Fire and Ice. Dragons and Winter. Yet both stories just fizzled.

 
Captain Cranks said:
Yeah, I had heard it finished on a very unsatisfying note.  I didn't realize it was on the level, if not worse, than the GoT travesty.  
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Many will agree but it is not a stretch to say that it was one of the worst endings in the history of television.  That's not an exaggeration.  

 
the moops said:
Samer goes with the Night King and all that ####. Fire and Ice. Dragons and Winter. Yet both stories just fizzled.
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D&D had to wrap it up in 6 episodes.  Then they wasted 55 days on a battle episode that was so dark no one could even see to figure out what was going on. They #### on everything on the way out the door to their next project. 

 
the moops said:
At least with the unsullied we see/hear where they are going. The Dothraki just never get show again. Really get the shaft in this story, when without them and their connection to Dany none of this happens
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They seemed to be just wandering around Kings Landing as Jon was walking through on his way out.

 
supermike80 said:
Many will agree but it is not a stretch to say that it was one of the worst endings in the history of television.  That's not an exaggeration.  
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It was bad and I won't defend its ending.

I think though, its also the down fall of major epic shows like GOT and LOST.  Shows that built up fanbases on theories and surprises along the way leaving things open or trying to close all arcs to satisfy so many.

Its also the fun in those shows.  The week to week discussions and tearing apart each little thing for clues to whats next.

 
El Floppo said:
speaking of Jon...  that look he made back as the door closed on the wall tunnel- was that his way of saying adios to "duty" and the watch? just riding off with his buds into the great white north? or do you guys think he was just going on a ride-along up north, with the intent to return?
Click to expand...
As I've mentioned before, there was no subterfuge here. Jon told us he would rather say #### all to the world and head back up north earlier this season. He did exactly that albeit as a "punishment" for killing Dany but there was no hidden meaning. He isn't coming back, ever. That was his c'est la vie to all the bull#### of the world.

sports_fan said:
What happened to that one guy?
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Oh he was there

 
One thing I saw on Freefolk that kinda made me :shrug: , they made it a point a few times in the series that the Dorthraki, when their Khal is defeated, begin to follow he who defeated the Khal. Wouldn't that have applied to Jon? Or was Dany not really considered a Khal?

 
supermike80 said:
I partially disagree>>Had they decided to not try to end the thing in 6 episodes, they could have drawn it out better. This entire thing failed when they went with 13 episodes for the last 2 seasons.   It was destined to suck when that announcement was made.
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Yea, that's the problem for me as well. GRRM told them how it all ends, so I feel the story choices made (Bran, Jon & Dany, Dany's turn, etc) were legit, but not given sufficient time to be fleshed out. I could buy into Dany's relationship w/ Jon and her "mad" turn much easier with more time for them to develop. Instead, they met and fell in love in seemingly two seconds, and she flipped a switch from good to evil just as fast. Yes, I know her switch was hinted at, but it was still way too fast. And Greyworm goes from cool character to complete jerk in one second as well. It all felt really weird. 

 
Captain Cranks said:
Yeah, I had heard it finished on a very unsatisfying note.  I didn't realize it was on the level, if not worse, than the GoT travesty.  
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I'm a Lost apologist, but I only felt that way after watching it a second time. I'm almost of the opinion you should spoil yourself on the final season and the end before watching it.

Leftovers is what Lost should've been in regards to pacing. 4 seasons, max. Leftovers is 3.

 
 People were complaining about the excessive dialogue/snails pace plot after the first two episodes. Now, they want that for the last two?  

I think if there's anything to be taken from this for future show creators/talent....is strike while the iron is hot; don't let your fan base stew for 2+ years. Get in...get out and leave them wanting more.  I think that's a BIG problem in fiction that people are very passionate about; people always want what they imagine the story to be. They'll always dream bigger than what can/will be produced....and in the end, that opens the door for criticism and disappointment. 

 
Snotbubbles said:
Partially agree.  Being King or Queen is unimportant.  That has been the case since Season 1 when Robert was King and Ned's first council meeting where he was so surprised at just how much of a mess things were. 

Where I disagree is that Bran is literally the most powerful of all the characters because he is immune from "the game".  He can't be lied to and he is also unconcerned with power both keeping it and obtaining more of it.  It wasn't a coincidence that the council didn't have a Master of Whisperers and a Master of War.  It was symbolism that those things were no longer needed.  The small council is now forced to do things differently because they have to answer to someone who already knows what they are going to do and say.  If Tyrion was really looking for someone to easily manipulate, he would have literally chosen anyone other than Bran.  If Tyrion wanted an unimpressive nobody that he could control, he would have chosen Gendry, who was the last remaining Baratheon.  
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This is really, really great. 

It makes me think of Dune - and what Paul Atreides becomes as Muad'Dib. And how this type of prescience continues on through his son - the God Emperor. However, in this case, there can be no God Emperor. 

Thank you, sincerely. This really helps me to resolve a lot of my questions in regards to magic being on the Throne, rather than behind it.

👍👍

 
jwb said:
And Greyworm goes from cool character to complete jerk in one second as well. It all felt really weird. 
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Did people ever think of Greyworm as a cool character? I found him to be not all that interesting and especially as the seasons wore on

 
beer 30 said:
As I've mentioned before, there was no subterfuge here. Jon told us he would rather say #### all to the world and head back up north earlier this season. He did exactly that albeit as a "punishment" for killing Dany but there was no hidden meaning. He isn't coming back, ever. That was his c'est la vie to all the bull#### of the world.

Oh he was there
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He was not what I was looking at during that scene. I didn't even know other people were in that scene. lol

 
beer 30 said:
One thing I saw on Freefolk that kinda made me :shrug: , they made it a point a few times in the series that the Dorthraki, when their Khal is defeated, begin to follow he who defeated the Khal. Wouldn't that have applied to Jon? Or was Dany not really considered a Khal?
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I thought about this too - and I think someone else here mentioned it earlier.

But, between then and now, I watched a video that was posted - really good - and it showed a scene from a previous season where Dany made the entire horde her "Bloodriders".

Here is a good link on it.

From link:

Realizing that she needs to motivate her new (and enormous) khalasar into waiting until they have enough shipsto take them to Westeros, Daenerys rides Drogon before them. She reminds them that she has yet to select her three bloodriders, as all khals have done before her. She then declares that she is not a khal and selects the entire khalasar her bloodriders.[3]
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...and, more importantly:

If a khal is killed, bloodriders avenge him.
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Thus, while it is true that when a khal dies, the horde follows - but not the bloodriders - and since this entire horde is bloodriders - well - should be vengeance, imo.

EDIT: Oh, there is a loop-hole. In order to select the entire horde, Dany declared that she was not a khal. So...does the 2nd condition for revenge cease to apply?

 
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Captain Cranks said:
Ha.  My son and I are on season 4 of lost.  Looks like I have something else to look forward to.   :rolleyes:
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While some didn’t like the Lost ending, I didn’t mind it even if I didn’t quite get everything. I think character wise everyone stayed true whether you liked how it ended. My main gripe with the GOT ending was how they didn’t seem to care how they got to the ending. For example, Tyrion shouldn’t have even been able to see his brother and sister. Maybe show his hand in the debris (like it got knocked off and pushed away) and just assume they are under the pile but at least “try” to make it look right. It looked like they got hit by some loose ceiling tiles not buried because a dragon decimated the red keep.

 
I've only read the last handful of pages of this thread since episode 5 because there was no way I was going to read all the crap in here. If I have to read one more sentence about bad writing and how the idiots in this thread, me included, could wrote this, I might go full on Mountain on my own eyes. 

Most disappointing ending of any series? Seriously? Get that #### out of here. 

Dany is all about breaking the wheel. The problem was, she was part of the wheel. Jon did what she claimed she wanted all along, he broke the wheel. And the Dragon can't roast a Targ. That's the bond they have with the Targs. And the dragon roasting the last vestige of the wheel was great because he can't roast Jon and he was pissed. 

And Jon didn't join the NW. Had he said the vows again, he would've stuck with them because Jon is too honest and honorable. No, Jon went to Castle Black and went right on through to become the new Mance Raider. He's the king in the north again. The real north. Didn't anyone notice he wasn't in all black when he went out the gate with the Free Folk?

Wah, wah, wah, wah wah. Tyrion should've been killed immediately. Wah. We need more digging! Wah. Brienne should be protecting Sansa or Arya. Wah. Pod is no knight. How can he be in the Kings Guard? It takes years of training (like he had with Brienne while roaming the countryside), and then you have to have an actual knight say a few words. How can this possibly happen? Wah, wah, wah. I don't like Greyworm. He's too one dimensional. You mean the guy that had one thing to live for his entire life, fighting (not socializing), then when he gets another reason to live, she dies and he's back to the one thing? You want funny fighters, go watch Bronn. Wah, wah, wah. Bronn can't be master of coin. Bronn is a sell sword. And Littlefinger was a pimp and the only thing Tyrion did before being master of coin is design a sewer system that allowed him to sneak whores into Casterly Rock. Wah. Sam can't be a Maester, much less a grand maester. Ever heard of an honorary degree? And I'm pretty sure Bran and Tyrion can go to the Citadel and say, "You ignored this guy and made him change bed pans and you did nothing to warn the realm but sit in your ivory tower. Time for some new leadership. Don't like it, then fight off our men with your books." Wah, wah, wah. 

 
stbugs said:
While some didn’t like the Lost ending, I didn’t mind it even if I didn’t quite get everything. I think character wise everyone stayed true whether you liked how it ended. My main gripe with the GOT ending was how they didn’t seem to care how they got to the ending. For example, Tyrion shouldn’t have even been able to see his brother and sister. Maybe show his hand in the debris (like it got knocked off and pushed away) and just assume they are under the pile but at least “try” to make it look right. It looked like they got hit by some loose ceiling tiles not buried because a dragon decimated the red keep.
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For me and my fiancee, the great disappointment with the final season is that it made the previous 7 seasons seemingly meaningless.  What importance was it that John was the rightful heir to the throne only to cast him off to lead the Wildlings?  What importance was it to build Arya into the ultimate revenger if she was going to flee for safety 20 yards from Cercei.  What importance was it to build Tyrion into this brilliant strategist only to turn him into a constant fumbler who's later rewarded by King Bran?  There are just so many sloppy disconnects between the final season and the seasons leading up to it that it's made the entire series feel empty.    

 
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