Game Thread W10 - Pittsburgh V Cleveland (1 Viewer)

[BGP]

Better tutor me then. See, I'm from Pittsburgh where it's impossible to ever find "three full sections" of seats available for games no matter what you're willing to pay. Steeler fans won't give them up. There are so many season tickets sold to Steeler fans, there is no "first come first served"

Are you this stupid?The Browns have had a BRUTAL stretch over the past 10 years. Horrible records, abysmal play, yet we pack the stadium every game. Just because the Steelers, who have won a lot over the past ten years, have sold more season tickets means NOTHING. Let's see the Steelers suck for 10 years and then check out their season ticket base.Keep talking tho. The more you talk, the dumber you sound. I like it.

Keep packing the stands with Steeler fans and calling them stupid.

:weak:

 

[toenail_23]

Better tutor me then. See, I'm from Pittsburgh where it's impossible to ever find "three full sections" of seats available for games no matter what you're willing to pay. Steeler fans won't give them up. There are so many season tickets sold to Steeler fans, there is no "first come first served"

Are you this stupid?The Browns have had a BRUTAL stretch over the past 10 years. Horrible records, abysmal play, yet we pack the stadium every game. Just because the Steelers, who have won a lot over the past ten years, have sold more season tickets means NOTHING. Let's see the Steelers suck for 10 years and then check out their season ticket base.Keep talking tho. The more you talk, the dumber you sound. I like it.

The Browns sell out every game because the fans of the visiting team buys the tickets up. Like today. It has nothing to do with Cleveland supporting their mistake.

 

[BGP]

We just need to put guards on the border to stop these Pittsburgh refugees from trying to flee their hometown.

 

[BGP]

Better tutor me then. See, I'm from Pittsburgh where it's impossible to ever find "three full sections" of seats available for games no matter what you're willing to pay. Steeler fans won't give them up. There are so many season tickets sold to Steeler fans, there is no "first come first served"

Are you this stupid?The Browns have had a BRUTAL stretch over the past 10 years. Horrible records, abysmal play, yet we pack the stadium every game. Just because the Steelers, who have won a lot over the past ten years, have sold more season tickets means NOTHING. Let's see the Steelers suck for 10 years and then check out their season ticket base.Keep talking tho. The more you talk, the dumber you sound. I like it.

The Browns sell out every game because the fans of the visiting team buys the tickets up. Like today. It has nothing to do with Cleveland supporting their mistake.

I live here. I can tell you from firsthand experience a LOT of Pittsburgh natives have moved here and still root for their Steelers. You don't see Bengals or Ravens jerseys everywhere when they play here.

 

[BGP]

Here's another example.At local sports bars, one TV is often tuned to the Steelers, with a group of Steeler fans huddled around it. They are REGULARS, not just visiting Cleveland. You don't see that for any other out-of-town team.

 

[falconeyed]

Anyone else think the Steelers run Ward on the reverse too often?

 

[ProudestMonkey]

Here's another example.At local sports bars, one TV is often tuned to the Steelers, with a group of Steeler fans huddled around it. They are REGULARS, not just visiting Cleveland. You don't see that for any other out-of-town team.

In Cincinnati, there are always a ton of PIT fans (you can tell them by their Steelers gear or their mullets ) for the CIN-PIT game every year. CIN had no problem selling tickets for their games at all this year, it's just a matter of all tickets being first come, first serve - so even PIT fans can get theirs once the tickets go on sale. Bastages.

 

[BGP]

3rd and 5, the Browns get some pressure on Roethlisucker, and he throws an errant pass that probably is more accurate and complete otherwise. Gerard Warren gets to him as he throws.

 

[BGP]

Here's another example.At local sports bars, one TV is often tuned to the Steelers, with a group of Steeler fans huddled around it. They are REGULARS, not just visiting Cleveland. You don't see that for any other out-of-town team.

In Cincinnati, there are always a ton of PIT fans (you can tell them by their Steelers gear or their mullets ) for the CIN-PIT game every year. CIN had no problem selling tickets for their games at all this year, it's just a matter of all tickets being first come, first serve - so even PIT fans can get theirs once the tickets go on sale. Bastages.

Its just because there is a mass exodus from Pittsburgh to the surrounding cities.I mean, have you ever heard of anybody moving FROM another major city TO Pittsburgh? What is there to do? Cold weather, no beaches, the steel industry is dead. No jobs unless you make ketchup. You are up in the mountains. Takes hours to drive to civilization. The main attraction is to ride a trolley up a hill. Its a hole in the ground.

 

[apalmer]

Here's another example.At local sports bars, one TV is often tuned to the Steelers, with a group of Steeler fans huddled around it.  They are REGULARS, not just visiting Cleveland.  You don't see that for any other out-of-town team.

In Cincinnati, there are always a ton of PIT fans (you can tell them by their Steelers gear or their mullets ) for the CIN-PIT game every year. CIN had no problem selling tickets for their games at all this year, it's just a matter of all tickets being first come, first serve - so even PIT fans can get theirs once the tickets go on sale. Bastages.

Its just because there is a mass exodus from Pittsburgh to the surrounding cities.I mean, have you ever heard of anybody moving FROM another major city TO Pittsburgh? What is there to do? Cold weather, no beaches, the steel industry is dead. No jobs unless you make ketchup. You are up in the mountains. Takes hours to drive to civilization. The main attraction is to ride a trolley up a hill. Its a hole in the ground.

You forgot the one thing you can't do in Cleveland: Watch a good football team play on its home field.

 

[BGP]

deleted

 

[sdsjr3]

CBS scored Plax's last rec. as TD, then took it back. Anything up with that?

 

[pats]

did burress get a td called back at the GL?

 

[cracKer]

1-1-CLE 1 (14:28) J.Bettis left guard to CLV 1 for no gain (O.Roye).2-1-CLE 1 (13:46) J.Bettis right guard to CLV 1 for no gain (K.Lang).3-1-CLE 1 (13:11) J.Bettis right guard to CLV 1 for no gain (Andra Davis, M.Jameson). :rotflmao:

 

[BGP]

did burress get a td called back at the GL?

He tried to reach out with the ball and nose it as he was going out of bounds, but it didn't quite make it. Bettis got stopped 3X and they kicked the FG.

 

[apalmer]

Bettis getting tired. He's not used to this much work.

 

[BGP]

Bleh. Garcia fumbles, Steelers pick it up and run it. 24-3 Steelers.Holcomb warming up.That play was the end of another Browns season and the end of Butch Davis' tenure with the Browns. Getting blown out like this. Just not acceptable. :X :(

 

[mmmtastypudding]

Fact: The Browns sell out consistently, whether the Steelers are playing there, or even some far away team that nobody cares about.Fact: The Steelers are a very popular team that sells out their stadium as well and have fans in other cities as well as fans that travel frequently.

 

[mmmtastypudding]

Bleh. Garcia fumbles, Steelers pick it up and run it. 24-3 Steelers.Holcomb warming up.That play was the end of another Browns season and the end of Butch Davis' tenure with the Browns. Getting blown out like this. Just not acceptable. :X :(

I was just thinking that this could be the beginning of the end of Butch Davis as well.

 

[BGP]

Fact: The Browns sell out consistently, whether the Steelers are playing there, or even some far away team that nobody cares about.Fact: The Steelers are a very popular team that sells out their stadium as well and have fans in other cities as well as fans that travel frequently.

Fact: the population of Pittsburgh has been in decline for some time, as the economy stinks and there is a mass exodus. Steelers fans aren't travelling as much as they are relocating. Lots of Steeler fans LIVE in Cleveland.

 

[mmmtastypudding]

Is it snowing there?

 

[mmmtastypudding]

Fact: The Browns sell out consistently, whether the Steelers are playing there, or even some far away team that nobody cares about.Fact:  The Steelers are a very popular team that sells out their stadium as well and have fans in other cities as well as fans that travel frequently.

Fact: the population of Pittsburgh has been in decline for some time, as the economy stinks and there is a mass exodus. Steelers fans aren't travelling as much as they are relocating. Lots of Steeler fans LIVE in Cleveland.

I was just trying to sum up both arguments. You may very well be right, I don't live in Cleveland. I just know I see Steelers fans frequently at games in cities nearby so that could very well be the case.

 

[BGP]

Is it snowing there?

No. The sun is out, actually. Cold, but no storms or anything. Field might be slick due to frost. It might be sort of a frozen tundra there.

 

[BGP]

Fact: The Browns sell out consistently, whether the Steelers are playing there, or even some far away team that nobody cares about.Fact: The Steelers are a very popular team that sells out their stadium as well and have fans in other cities as well as fans that travel frequently.

Fact: the population of Pittsburgh has been in decline for some time, as the economy stinks and there is a mass exodus. Steelers fans aren't travelling as much as they are relocating. Lots of Steeler fans LIVE in Cleveland.

I was just trying to sum up both arguments. You may very well be right, I don't live in Cleveland. I just know I see Steelers fans frequently at games in cities nearby so that could very well be the case.

We got one house down the road from me that proudly displays a steeler flag year round.

 

[mmmtastypudding]

Fact: The Browns sell out consistently, whether the Steelers are playing there, or even some far away team that nobody cares about.Fact:  The Steelers are a very popular team that sells out their stadium as well and have fans in other cities as well as fans that travel frequently.

Fact: the population of Pittsburgh has been in decline for some time, as the economy stinks and there is a mass exodus. Steelers fans aren't travelling as much as they are relocating. Lots of Steeler fans LIVE in Cleveland.

I was just trying to sum up both arguments. You may very well be right, I don't live in Cleveland. I just know I see Steelers fans frequently at games in cities nearby so that could very well be the case.

We got one house down the road from me that proudly displays a steeler flag year round.

Steal it.

 

[mmmtastypudding]

Browns showing veritical attack against soft coverage.

 

[BGP]

They benched Garcia for Holcomb, and I'm sure people will say Garcia sucks, but its the Browns' OL. The Steelers have a good OL this year. I've seen Ben sit in the pocket for 10 seconds. Give a rookie that much time, and he'll succeed.

 

[WildGeneral]

nfl.com shows that Holcomb is in the game...is Davis fed up with Garcia? Or is he injured?

 

[BGP]

Fact: The Browns sell out consistently, whether the Steelers are playing there, or even some far away team that nobody cares about.Fact: The Steelers are a very popular team that sells out their stadium as well and have fans in other cities as well as fans that travel frequently.

Fact: the population of Pittsburgh has been in decline for some time, as the economy stinks and there is a mass exodus. Steelers fans aren't travelling as much as they are relocating. Lots of Steeler fans LIVE in Cleveland.

I was just trying to sum up both arguments. You may very well be right, I don't live in Cleveland. I just know I see Steelers fans frequently at games in cities nearby so that could very well be the case.

We got one house down the road from me that proudly displays a steeler flag year round.

Steal it.

I'm surpised no-one has yet. Its been there for years. Unless it has been stolen a lot and he keeps replacing it.

 

[Fallerjw]

Can Holcomb work some magic here?

 

[apalmer]

Fact: The Browns sell out consistently, whether the Steelers are playing there, or even some far away team that nobody cares about.Fact:  The Steelers are a very popular team that sells out their stadium as well and have fans in other cities as well as fans that travel frequently.

Fact: the population of Pittsburgh has been in decline for some time, as the economy stinks and there is a mass exodus. Steelers fans aren't travelling as much as they are relocating. Lots of Steeler fans LIVE in Cleveland.

Fact: If you live in Cleveland and want to be a fan of a team that wins, you better BECOME a Steeler fan, no matter where you were born.

 

[mmmtastypudding]

Fact: The Browns sell out consistently, whether the Steelers are playing there, or even some far away team that nobody cares about.Fact:  The Steelers are a very popular team that sells out their stadium as well and have fans in other cities as well as fans that travel frequently.

Fact: the population of Pittsburgh has been in decline for some time, as the economy stinks and there is a mass exodus. Steelers fans aren't travelling as much as they are relocating. Lots of Steeler fans LIVE in Cleveland.

Fact: If you live in Cleveland and want to be a fan of a team that wins, you better BECOME a Steeler fan, no matter where you were born.

This guy just doesn't give up does he.

 

[BGP]

Fact: The Browns sell out consistently, whether the Steelers are playing there, or even some far away team that nobody cares about.

Fact: The Steelers are a very popular team that sells out their stadium as well and have fans in other cities as well as fans that travel frequently.

Fact: the population of Pittsburgh has been in decline for some time, as the economy stinks and there is a mass exodus. Steelers fans aren't travelling as much as they are relocating. Lots of Steeler fans LIVE in Cleveland.

Fact: If you live in Cleveland and want to be a fan of a team that wins, you better BECOME a Steeler fan, no matter where you were born.

Like I say, Pittsburgh fans are front-runners. The ones that live here root for the Steelers and Indians. They don't root for the Pirates. And that's exactly how you look at sports, given your comment that we must also root for winners only. You are a front-runner. Thanks for proving that my description of the "Pittsburgh menality" is correct.

 

[ProudestMonkey]

Fast Willie Parker with a 24 yard run to pretty much pound the nail in the coffin for the Browns. Bettis/Parker the new thunder and lightning?

 

[BGP]

Fact: The Browns sell out consistently, whether the Steelers are playing there, or even some far away team that nobody cares about.Fact: The Steelers are a very popular team that sells out their stadium as well and have fans in other cities as well as fans that travel frequently.

Fact: the population of Pittsburgh has been in decline for some time, as the economy stinks and there is a mass exodus. Steelers fans aren't travelling as much as they are relocating. Lots of Steeler fans LIVE in Cleveland.

Fact: If you live in Cleveland and want to be a fan of a team that wins, you better BECOME a Steeler fan, no matter where you were born.

This guy just doesn't give up does he.

 

[apalmer]

Fact: The Browns sell out consistently, whether the Steelers are playing there, or even some far away team that nobody cares about.

Fact:  The Steelers are a very popular team that sells out their stadium as well and have fans in other cities as well as fans that travel frequently.

Fact: the population of Pittsburgh has been in decline for some time, as the economy stinks and there is a mass exodus. Steelers fans aren't travelling as much as they are relocating. Lots of Steeler fans LIVE in Cleveland.

Fact: If you live in Cleveland and want to be a fan of a team that wins, you better BECOME a Steeler fan, no matter where you were born.

Like I say, Pittsburgh fans are front-runners. The ones that live here root for the Steelers and Indians. They don't root for the Pirates. And that's exactly how you look at sports, given your comment that we must also root for winners only. You are a front-runner. Thanks for proving that my description of the "Pittsburgh menality" is correct.

Or they used to be Indian and Browns fans who wised up. Thank YOU for proving my point.

 

[BGP]

Fact: The Browns sell out consistently, whether the Steelers are playing there, or even some far away team that nobody cares about.

Fact: The Steelers are a very popular team that sells out their stadium as well and have fans in other cities as well as fans that travel frequently.

Fact: the population of Pittsburgh has been in decline for some time, as the economy stinks and there is a mass exodus. Steelers fans aren't travelling as much as they are relocating. Lots of Steeler fans LIVE in Cleveland.

Fact: If you live in Cleveland and want to be a fan of a team that wins, you better BECOME a Steeler fan, no matter where you were born.

Like I say, Pittsburgh fans are front-runners. The ones that live here root for the Steelers and Indians. They don't root for the Pirates. And that's exactly how you look at sports, given your comment that we must also root for winners only. You are a front-runner. Thanks for proving that my description of the "Pittsburgh menality" is correct.

Or they used to be Indian and Browns fans who wised up.

No, I've already detailed how these are transplanted Pittsburgh natives. I guess reading comprehension in Pittsburgh is pretty terrible as well. I understand.

 

[Spike]

Really glad to see no stats for Andre Davis. Really glad. Also, great notification from the Browns that he wasn't making an appearance.

 

[apalmer]

Fact: The Browns sell out consistently, whether the Steelers are playing there, or even some far away team that nobody cares about.

Fact:  The Steelers are a very popular team that sells out their stadium as well and have fans in other cities as well as fans that travel frequently.

Fact: the population of Pittsburgh has been in decline for some time, as the economy stinks and there is a mass exodus. Steelers fans aren't travelling as much as they are relocating. Lots of Steeler fans LIVE in Cleveland.

Fact: If you live in Cleveland and want to be a fan of a team that wins, you better BECOME a Steeler fan, no matter where you were born.

Like I say, Pittsburgh fans are front-runners. The ones that live here root for the Steelers and Indians. They don't root for the Pirates. And that's exactly how you look at sports, given your comment that we must also root for winners only. You are a front-runner. Thanks for proving that my description of the "Pittsburgh menality" is correct.

Or they used to be Indian and Browns fans who wised up.

No, I've already detailed how these are transplanted Pittsburgh natives. I guess reading comprehension in Pittsburgh is pretty terrible as well. I understand.

Right--because you say that must be what happened, it's a fact. I forgot.

 

[3C's]

Fact: The Browns sell out consistently, whether the Steelers are playing there, or even some far away team that nobody cares about.Fact: The Steelers are a very popular team that sells out their stadium as well and have fans in other cities as well as fans that travel frequently.

Fact: the population of Pittsburgh has been in decline for some time, as the economy stinks and there is a mass exodus. Steelers fans aren't travelling as much as they are relocating. Lots of Steeler fans LIVE in Cleveland.

Sorry for the hijack of a game thread. Apparently a simple statistic isn't quite showing the full truth.

The region's population is estimated to have gone down by 9,112 people between 2000 and 2001. What may be surprising is that 55 percent of that number represents a decline in the population age 65 and over. Less than half of the regional population decline comes from local residents who are ineligible for Social Security.The elderly population is shrinking because of a combination of factors. Natural population aging along with a steady stream of retirees seeking warmer climates are the main causes.The remaining population decline is still something for public policy and local officials to address. Labor shortages now and in the future are a real inhibitor to growth and we need to find ways attract more people to come here. That is a very different problem from how we normally portray the situation, which is that current residents are leaving the region en masse because of a lack of opportunities here or unsatisfactory local amenities. The collective Pittsburgh psyche has been harmed by a negative self-image fueled by a history of outmigration that we cannot forget. We need to consider the possibility that large-scale outmigration is the history and not also the future of the region.The rate of younger workers fleeing the region is a small part of the change in population. The rate of net migration of those in their 20s is perhaps something on the order of 0.1 percent per year, a very small fraction of what it was 15 years ago. That means for every thousand 20-somethings we count here this year, we will expect to count 999 a year from now. Is that what we are getting so upset about?Even more shocking is that when compared with other large metropolitan areas, we actually are retaining a relatively larger percentage of our current population each year, more than Cleveland, Philadelphia, Detroit and even Miami to cite just a few examples

link

 

[BGP]

Pittsburgh Population in decline:

reposted since someone wanted to post articles on Pittsburgh's economy

http://www.aviewoncities.com/pittsburgh/pittsburghfacts.htm

Metro: 2,358,695 (2000)

2,394,811 (1990)

2,571,223 (1980)

2,683,853 (1970)

City: 334,563 (2000)

369,879 (1990)

423,959 (1980)

http://pittsburgh.bizjournals.com/pittsbur...editorial5.html

There are several reasons for the losses in Pittsburgh. These lessons can be applied to several other large cities as well.

First and foremost is the burden of city and city school taxes. Not surprisingly, the four cities where city and school taxes represented the largest share of both total non-federal taxes and income saw significant decreases in population over the decade of the 1990s and so far in this decade. These cities were Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati, and St. Louis.

The second problem is a tendency for the public sector to underwrite questionable development in the name of growth. Pittsburgh and other cities that engaged in economic development strategies that focused on subsidizing glitzy entertainment venues, such as sports stadiums, tended to be on the net loss side more often than not. Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Baltimore, and Cincinnati are joined by Detroit, Philadelphia, and Milwaukee as cities that hitched their hopes to stadium-driven economic development that has not panned out as promised.

Lastly, the continuing drop in education quality is a key element in explaining the decline of many of these cities. Emphasis on outcomes, accountability, and cost control will be required if the city school district is to play a role in reversing Pittsburgh's population decline.

Clearly, city and school policymakers have missed or ignored the signals sent by recent population changes. There is no indication that officials are interested in real reform or, even worse, don't think it is necessary. Amazingly, city officials are lobbying for additional taxes. In addition, there has been no effort to tie expenditure growth to population change. It is important to note that if city expenditures had been held to the rate of population growth (decline in Pittsburgh's case) plus inflation over the last 20 years, the current debate would be over what to do with the surpluses rather than how to close the city's budget deficit.

Basically, they are suffering the ills of socialism.Ok, back to the game.

 

[apalmer]

Pittsburgh Population in decline:

reposted since someone wanted to post articles on Pittsburgh's economy

http://www.aviewoncities.com/pittsburgh/pittsburghfacts.htm

Metro: 2,358,695 (2000)

2,394,811 (1990)

2,571,223 (1980)

2,683,853 (1970)

City: 334,563 (2000)

369,879 (1990)

423,959 (1980)

http://pittsburgh.bizjournals.com/pittsbur...editorial5.html

There are several reasons for the losses in Pittsburgh. These lessons can be applied to several other large cities as well.

First and foremost is the burden of city and city school taxes. Not surprisingly, the four cities where city and school taxes represented the largest share of both total non-federal taxes and income saw significant decreases in population over the decade of the 1990s and so far in this decade. These cities were Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati, and St. Louis.

The second problem is a tendency for the public sector to underwrite questionable development in the name of growth. Pittsburgh and other cities that engaged in economic development strategies that focused on subsidizing glitzy entertainment venues, such as sports stadiums, tended to be on the net loss side more often than not. Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Baltimore, and Cincinnati are joined by Detroit, Philadelphia, and Milwaukee as cities that hitched their hopes to stadium-driven economic development that has not panned out as promised.

Lastly, the continuing drop in education quality is a key element in explaining the decline of many of these cities. Emphasis on outcomes, accountability, and cost control will be required if the city school district is to play a role in reversing Pittsburgh's population decline.

Clearly, city and school policymakers have missed or ignored the signals sent by recent population changes. There is no indication that officials are interested in real reform or, even worse, don't think it is necessary. Amazingly, city officials are lobbying for additional taxes. In addition, there has been no effort to tie expenditure growth to population change. It is important to note that if city expenditures had been held to the rate of population growth (decline in Pittsburgh's case) plus inflation over the last 20 years, the current debate would be over what to do with the surpluses rather than how to close the city's budget deficit.

Basically, they are suffering the ills of socialism.Ok, back to the game.

Population loss is indisputable. I don't see where it says everyone who leaves Pittsburgh is running to Cleveland, though. As for the rest of the article, however, the two most important parts are:First Word: "OPINION"

Second:

MR. MONTARTI is a policy analyst with The Allegheny Institute for Public Policy, a local conservative think tank.

The Allegheny Institute fought Heinz Field and PNC Park every step of the way and is still crying in their beer because they were built, even though they proposed no better ideas. They will snipe at anything they can to say "I told you so." Nothing they say has any credibility to just about anyone in the Pittsburgh area.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

LOFL at the (as-usual) pathetic BGP. The Clowns get demolished at home by the Steelers and he's talking about economy and population movement and Mt Washinton and Baseball and everything except football. Whatever makes you feel better, buddy. :rotflmao: The Clowns are 3-6. The Steelers are the best team in the NFL right now. Spout off about whatever else you want to.

 

[Godsbrother]

BGP is the guy that said last year the Steelers were "bottom feeders" and that the Browns "get it". The only thing the Browns get is a whipping from the Steelers every year.The Browns are 3-6 and on their way to another losing season. BGP should just sack it up and admit that the Browns are among the worst run teams in the NFL year in and year out. Instead, he starts this "my town is better than your town" crap. I've lived in both cities and they are more similar than they are different (except Pittsburgh has the Steelers and Cleveland has the pathetic Browns....)

 

[Stillers Jr.]

Another nice win for the Steelers. I wouldn't have been surprised to see them lose this or at least be in a dog-fight. This game was never really in contention. The Opening drive for the Browns (3 and out @ the Steelers 20) was a telliing sign. Steeler O-line dominated and the Steeler D put pressure on Garcia/Suggs all game.It's amazing the Browns can't "luck" into a good team every now and again. Big Ben was unspectacular, but did what he had to do...which wasn't much considering the tempo of the game. Glad to see the fire in Porter before the game, LOL. Looks like you'll have to wait a whole year for revenge Brownie fans. Sorry.I just wish the Jets woulda knocked off the stupid ravens...

 

[Evilgrin72]

BGP, I can't and won't support or refute your arguments regarding the socio-economic impact of Pittsburgh's job market on the Browns home crowds, but did I really hear you call Steeler fans front runners? A team that hasn't been to a Super Bowl in 9 years and hasn't won one in 25 years, yet STILL have a ten-year WAITING LIST for season tickets?

 

[Bojang0301]

Pittsburgh Population in decline:

reposted since someone wanted to post articles on Pittsburgh's economy

http://www.aviewoncities.com/pittsburgh/pittsburghfacts.htm

Metro: 2,358,695 (2000)

2,394,811 (1990)

2,571,223 (1980)

2,683,853 (1970)

City: 334,563 (2000)

369,879 (1990)

423,959 (1980)

http://pittsburgh.bizjournals.com/pittsbur...editorial5.html

There are several reasons for the losses in Pittsburgh. These lessons can be applied to several other large cities as well.

First and foremost is the burden of city and city school taxes. Not surprisingly, the four cities where city and school taxes represented the largest share of both total non-federal taxes and income saw significant decreases in population over the decade of the 1990s and so far in this decade. These cities were Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati, and St. Louis.

The second problem is a tendency for the public sector to underwrite questionable development in the name of growth. Pittsburgh and other cities that engaged in economic development strategies that focused on subsidizing glitzy entertainment venues, such as sports stadiums, tended to be on the net loss side more often than not. Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Baltimore, and Cincinnati are joined by Detroit, Philadelphia, and Milwaukee as cities that hitched their hopes to stadium-driven economic development that has not panned out as promised.

Lastly, the continuing drop in education quality is a key element in explaining the decline of many of these cities. Emphasis on outcomes, accountability, and cost control will be required if the city school district is to play a role in reversing Pittsburgh's population decline.

Clearly, city and school policymakers have missed or ignored the signals sent by recent population changes. There is no indication that officials are interested in real reform or, even worse, don't think it is necessary. Amazingly, city officials are lobbying for additional taxes. In addition, there has been no effort to tie expenditure growth to population change. It is important to note that if city expenditures had been held to the rate of population growth (decline in Pittsburgh's case) plus inflation over the last 20 years, the current debate would be over what to do with the surpluses rather than how to close the city's budget deficit.

Basically, they are suffering the ills of socialism.Ok, back to the game.

Yep and people are really dying to get into Ohio... Our economy is shot, our jobs are in decline and what we really need to (get more kids into higher education) we are cutting funding for.

 

[Tom Servo]

BTW, there are people who grew up in Pittsburgh who have moved to Cleveland because there is more economic opportunity here. It doesn't help that the Browns have stunk for about 15 years. There are a lot of Steeler fans in this town. (For example, the afternoon host on local sports talk radio is a transplanted Pittsburgh native. He is a Steeler/Indians fan. (Most Pittsburgh fans are front runners. They root for the Indians because they've been more successful lately than the Pirates). Actually he says he is BOTH a Browns and Steelers fan but roots for the Steelers when they play head to head.

As a result, the pre-game show said there would probably be three full sections in the stadium filled with Steeler fans. Kinda negates the HFA. Expect to hear lots of cheering if the Steelers do well.

It just kinda sucks because these Steelers fans moved because we are the BETTER city economically, then they root for their old garbage town they left in the dust.

I can't speak for whomever you're talking about, but I can definitely tell you that I am both and Indians and Steeler fan. Growing up across the state line from Youngstown, I've been an Indians fan since 1968 (because my dad is a fan) and a Steeler fan since 1971 (since I chose them). In that part of PA, there are divided loyalties between Cleveland an Pittsburgh, there are people who are the exact opposite - Browns and Pirate fans.I guess I'd have to launch Scuds at Steeler fans too if their team o\/\/ned mine. Sorry 'bout your luck... :rotflmao:

 

[Evilgrin72]

Luck has nothing to do with it.

 

[Irish]

Here's another example.At local sports bars, one TV is often tuned to the Steelers, with a group of Steeler fans huddled around it. They are REGULARS, not just visiting Cleveland. You don't see that for any other out-of-town team.

In Cincinnati, there are always a ton of PIT fans (you can tell them by their Steelers gear or their mullets ) for the CIN-PIT game every year. CIN had no problem selling tickets for their games at all this year, it's just a matter of all tickets being first come, first serve - so even PIT fans can get theirs once the tickets go on sale. Bastages.

Its just because there is a mass exodus from Pittsburgh to the surrounding cities.I mean, have you ever heard of anybody moving FROM another major city TO Pittsburgh? What is there to do? Cold weather, no beaches, the steel industry is dead. No jobs unless you make ketchup. You are up in the mountains. Takes hours to drive to civilization. The main attraction is to ride a trolley up a hill. Its a hole in the ground.

Before you start bashing other cities, do we need to remind you that Cleveland's river once was on fire? You are very naive if you think all Steeler fans in Ohio and around the country are just transplants from Pittsburgh. It's called Steeler Nation!