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Gay marriage (1 Viewer)

Are you for or against?

  • For

    Votes: 291 80.2%
  • Against

    Votes: 72 19.8%

  • Total voters
    363
The Commish said:
Pretty simple...you call it two different things (marriage and gay marriage) there's room for them to be two different things. I'm pretty sure that's what the whole California fiasco was over, but I could be wrong.

:confused:
From today's decision-

In future generations the label same-sex marriage will be abandoned, to be replaced simply by marriage. We are better people than what these laws represent, and it is time to discard them into the ash heap of history.

 
timschochet said:
Commish, I think you must be living on another planet. There is not a single gay person I have ever met who would be content with all the rights of marriage but without the title. These are NOT exceptions. They want the title of marriage because anything less would make them second class citizens.
As I think you saw in California, gays and their advocates didn't oppose "domestic partnerships" or "civil unions" when they had none of the benefits of marriage, but once those rights were in place they didn't just stop pursuing the rest of the rights of "marriage" - including the dignity that comes from using the proper word. Intermediate steps were never "good enough" but unless they create hurdles for the real goal they were generally supported. A few years ago I posted an exercise of all the legislation supported by HRC across state legislatures and it was about half full blown repeals of bans and about half small step forward,

So while YES, theCommish clearly demonstrates everyday that he lives in a different universe than the rest of us his statement (as was later revealed) is only wrong in the sense that it is a rather incomplete expression of the full thoughts on the issue.

 
GOP Sen. Orrin Hatch, a former chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, said gay marriage is likely to become the “law of the land.”

“Let’s face it. Anybody that does not believe that gay marriage is going to be the law of the land just hasn’t been observing what’s going on,” the Utah senator said Wednesday during an interview on KSL NewsRadio. “The trend right now in the courts is to permit gay marriage and anybody who doesn’t admit that just isn’t living in the real world.”

Hatch is opposed to same-sex marriage.
http://onpolitics.usatoday.com/2014/05/29/orrin-hatch-gay-marriage/

 
Humanity and respect popping up all over. The younger generation is going to bury those who continue to fight against human dignity and equality.

http://m.nydailynews.com/news/national/washington-high-school-principal-students-surprise-speech-gay-pride-event-video-article-1.1818324

Meanwhile, in Texas:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/texas-gop-advances-reparative-therapy-gays-24020918
1st story is nice , 2nd not so much
Texas, seriously - what the ####?

The worst part? I'm not at all surprised.

 
Humanity and respect popping up all over. The younger generation is going to bury those who continue to fight against human dignity and equality.

http://m.nydailynews.com/news/national/washington-high-school-principal-students-surprise-speech-gay-pride-event-video-article-1.1818324

Meanwhile, in Texas:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/texas-gop-advances-reparative-therapy-gays-24020918
1st story is nice , 2nd not so much
Texas, seriously - what the ####? The worst part? I'm not at all surprised.
We're trying
 
Humanity and respect popping up all over. The younger generation is going to bury those who continue to fight against human dignity and equality.

http://m.nydailynews.com/news/national/washington-high-school-principal-students-surprise-speech-gay-pride-event-video-article-1.1818324

Meanwhile, in Texas:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/texas-gop-advances-reparative-therapy-gays-24020918
1st story is nice , 2nd not so much
"I think it would actually encourage someone to join when they see that the Republican Party takes a strong stand" [about homosexuality tearing at the fabric of society]

You know, she's absolutely right. It will encourage someone to join the Republican party. And that is a very, very, very good thing for Democrats

 
U.S. courts back gay marriage in Utah, Indiana

A U.S. appeals court on Wednesday found a gay marriage ban in conservative Utah violated the Constitution, saying the heavily Mormon state could not bar same-sex nuptials in a ruling that capped a day of victories for gay couples.

The Utah ruling by the 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver marked the first regional appeals court ruling on gay marriage since the U.S. Supreme Court forced the federal government to extend benefits to same-sex couples married in states that allow gay marriage last June.

The ruling came as a federal district judge in Indiana joined a growing chorus of jurists who have struck down state gay marriage bans as unconstitutional, in rulings that could substantially expand U.S. gay marriage rights if upheld. "A state may not deny the issuance of a marriage license to two persons, or refuse to recognize their marriage, based solely upon the sex of the persons in the marriage union," the 10th Circuit said in the Utah ruling.
 
http://theadvocate.com/home/9558049-125/judge-shakes-up-la-gay

U.S. District Court Judge Martin Feldman threw a curveball at the lawyers arguing either side of a case over gay marriage in Louisiana on Wednesday, deciding he will rule not only on whether same-sex marriages performed in other states should be recognized in Louisiana, but also whether gay and lesbian couples should be able to wed here.

Scores of similar lawsuits are working their way through courts across the country, some of them taking on recognition of existing marriages and others aiming more directly at the right to marry in a particular state. Some cases involve both issues.

The case before Feldman includes six couples, all arguing that Louisiana should recognize existing marriages performed elsewhere. The legal briefings that proceeded Wednesday’s court hearing stuck mainly with the issue of recognition.

But at the end of an hour and a half of oral arguments, Feldman said he wanted to hear debate on all of the questions involved, saying it would be unfair to the public to issue a “piecemeal” ruling.

“I feel uncomfortable resolving some issues one way or the other and not all the issues one way or another,” Feldman said, asking for additional briefs within 21 days and putting off a decision about whether to hear more oral arguments.

The judge’s decision will likely mean a brief delay in any ruling on the recognition issue, but could greatly speed up a decision on whether same-sex couples can get a marriage licence in Louisiana. Under the court’s original instructions, now moot, lawyers for both sides were to argue over recognition, allow the full appeals process to play out, and then take up the case of a gay couple who attempted to get a marriage license in New Orleans and got turned down.


Another outstanding issue before Feldman is whether Louisiana is violating the First Amendment’s guarantee of free speech by forcing married same-sex couples to list themselves as single on tax returns.

Instead of taking each question on separately, Feldman appears ready to draw up one ruling on all of them, though he dropped no conclusive hints on Wednesday about which way he might be leaning.

Meanwhile, just minutes after oral arguments wrapped up in New Orleans, gay marriage proponents got their first victory at the circuit court level, a development that could reverberate in Louisiana.

A panel of judges for the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver upheld the ruling of a Utah judge who struck down that state’s ban on same-sex marriage as unconstitutional.

That’s good for gay marriage proponents in Louisiana, because it means that even if they lose their case before Feldman and the 5th Circuit Court, the U.S. Supreme Court would be more likely to step in. The Supreme Court Justices haven’t answered definitively whether same-sex couples have a constitutional right to marry, but a split decision between two circuit courts would put pressure on them to take up the issue.
 
fatness said:
And both states will appeal. Good to know they have enough surplus money in their state budgets.
Oh, just wait until Feldman rules against the State of Louisiana. Jindal will hire every white shoe firm in the state to appeal.
The Louisiana state government must just be rolling in tax money.
They should be since they don't spend anything on services nor education.

 
fatness said:
And both states will appeal. Good to know they have enough surplus money in their state budgets.
Oh, just wait until Feldman rules against the State of Louisiana. Jindal will hire every white shoe firm in the state to appeal.
The Louisiana state government must just be rolling in tax money.
They should be since they don't spend anything on services nor education.
Unless it's teaching creationism in charter schools
 
One of the oldest denominations in America, votes to support same-sex marriage and it’s creating a rift between Christians.

The Presbyterian Church is known as one of the most conservative Christian denominations. Thursday, The Presbyterian Church USA voted to revise its definition of a marriage from a man and woman, to two persons

With this, pastors can now marry same-sex couples in states where it is legal.
http://www.waaytv.com/news/presbyterian-church-usa-allows-pastors-to-marry-same-sex-couples/article_ad2998f2-fce3-11e3-a73e-0017a43b2370.html

 
One of the oldest denominations in America, votes to support same-sex marriage and it’s creating a rift between Christians.

The Presbyterian Church is known as one of the most conservative Christian denominations. Thursday, The Presbyterian Church USA voted to revise its definition of a marriage from a man and woman, to two persons

With this, pastors can now marry same-sex couples in states where it is legal.
http://www.waaytv.com/news/presbyterian-church-usa-allows-pastors-to-marry-same-sex-couples/article_ad2998f2-fce3-11e3-a73e-0017a43b2370.html
It is the right thing to do, of course... but this is the pickle religion is in. They are arbitrarily changing the words and teachings of their all knowing god?

Not that this is new, just amusing.

 
One of the oldest denominations in America, votes to support same-sex marriage and its creating a rift between Christians.

The Presbyterian Church is known as one of the most conservative Christian denominations. Thursday, The Presbyterian Church USA voted to revise its definition of a marriage from a man and woman, to two persons

With this, pastors can now marry same-sex couples in states where it is legal.
http://www.waaytv.com/news/presbyterian-church-usa-allows-pastors-to-marry-same-sex-couples/article_ad2998f2-fce3-11e3-a73e-0017a43b2370.html
It is the right thing to do, of course... but this is the pickle religion is in. They are arbitrarily changing the words and teachings of their all knowing god?

Not that this is new, just amusing.
Teachings change because humans have different opinions and motivations, some are not always good. But words mean what they mean. Gay marriage should neither be condemned or condoned.

 
One of the oldest denominations in America, votes to support same-sex marriage and it’s creating a rift between Christians.

The Presbyterian Church is known as one of the most conservative Christian denominations. Thursday, The Presbyterian Church USA voted to revise its definition of a marriage from a man and woman, to two persons

With this, pastors can now marry same-sex couples in states where it is legal.
http://www.waaytv.com/news/presbyterian-church-usa-allows-pastors-to-marry-same-sex-couples/article_ad2998f2-fce3-11e3-a73e-0017a43b2370.html
It is the right thing to do, of course... but this is the pickle religion is in. They are arbitrarily changing the words and teachings of their all knowing god?

Not that this is new, just amusing.
According to the gay, Catholic historian John Boswell that and much more changed around the 12th and 13th centuries.

It is possible to change ecclesiastical attitudes toward gay people and their sexuality because the objections to homosexuality are not biblical, they are not consistent, they are not part of Jesus' teaching; and they are not even fundamentally Christian. It is possible because Christianity was indifferent, if not accepting, of gay people and their feelings for a longer period of time than it had been hostile to them. It is possible because the founders of the religion specifically considered love to transcend accidents of biology and to be the end, not the means. It may not be possible to eradicate intolerance from secular society, for intolerance is, to some extent ineradicable; but I believe the church's attitude can and must be changed. It has been different in the past and it can be again. Plato observed of secular society nearly 2,400 years ago that "wherever it has been established that it is shameful to be involved in homosexual relationships, this is due to evil on the part of the legislatures, to despotism on the part of the rulers and to cowardism on the part of the governed."

I don't think we can afford to be cowardly. We have an abundance of ecclesiastical precedent to encourage the church to adopt a more positive attitude. We must use it. As a gay archbishop wrote in the 12th century, "it is not we who teach God how to love, but He who taught us. He made our natures full of love." A contemporary of his wrote, "Love is not a crime. If it were wrong to love, God would not have bound even the divine to love." These statements came from the Christian community, from Christian faith. That community can and must be reminded of its former beliefs, its former acceptance. And we must do the reminding.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
One of the oldest denominations in America, votes to support same-sex marriage and it’s creating a rift between Christians.

The Presbyterian Church is known as one of the most conservative Christian denominations. Thursday, The Presbyterian Church USA voted to revise its definition of a marriage from a man and woman, to two persons

With this, pastors can now marry same-sex couples in states where it is legal.
http://www.waaytv.com/news/presbyterian-church-usa-allows-pastors-to-marry-same-sex-couples/article_ad2998f2-fce3-11e3-a73e-0017a43b2370.html
It is the right thing to do, of course... but this is the pickle religion is in. They are arbitrarily changing the words and teachings of their all knowing god?

Not that this is new, just amusing.
According to the gay, Catholic historian John Boswell that and much more changed around the 12th and 13th centuries.

It is possible to change ecclesiastical attitudes toward gay people and their sexuality because the objections to homosexuality are not biblical, they are not consistent, they are not part of Jesus' teaching; and they are not even fundamentally Christian. It is possible because Christianity was indifferent, if not accepting, of gay people and their feelings for a longer period of time than it had been hostile to them. It is possible because the founders of the religion specifically considered love to transcend accidents of biology and to be the end, not the means. It may not be possible to eradicate intolerance from secular society, for intolerance is, to some extent ineradicable; but I believe the church's attitude can and must be changed. It has been different in the past and it can be again. Plato observed of secular society nearly 2,400 years ago that "wherever it has been established that it is shameful to be involved in homosexual relationships, this is due to evil on the part of the legislatures, to despotism on the part of the rulers and to cowardism on the part of the governed."

I don't think we can afford to be cowardly. We have an abundance of ecclesiastical precedent to encourage the church to adopt a more positive attitude. We must use it. As a gay archbishop wrote in the 12th century, "it is not we who teach God how to love, but He who taught us. He made our natures full of love." A contemporary of his wrote, "Love is not a crime. If it were wrong to love, God would not have bound even the divine to love." These statements came from the Christian community, from Christian faith. That community can and must be reminded of its former beliefs, its former acceptance. And we must do the reminding.
Like I said, nothing new.

Nor is it new to learn you can find different teachings/interpretations on the bible to conflict with each other. Makes it easier for one to jump around to the greener grass when one starts to turn brown.

 
So religion is kind if like science. It changes as we learn more....
And what exactly did these Presbyterians learn? Was it God who told them?
Pretty sure that message was delivered by the gay mafia.
So the Presbyterians learned that gay marriage was okay from the gay mafia and they went along with it? What does that have to do with God? It certainly lends no support to the notion of divinity guiding the church.

 
So religion is kind if like science. It changes as we learn more....
And what exactly did these Presbyterians learn? Was it God who told them?
Pretty sure that message was delivered by the gay mafia.
So the Presbyterians learned that gay marriage was okay from the gay mafia and they went along with it? What does that have to do with God? It certainly lends no support to the notion of divinity guiding the church.
Not my notion. Men guide churches and sometimes they are misguided.

 
So religion is kind if like science. It changes as we learn more....
And what exactly did these Presbyterians learn? Was it God who told them?
Pretty sure that message was delivered by the gay mafia.
So the Presbyterians learned that gay marriage was okay from the gay mafia and they went along with it? What does that have to do with God? It certainly lends no support to the notion of divinity guiding the church.
Not my notion. Men guide churches and sometimes they are misguided.
I'm sure if you asked they would all say they prayed and God led them to this decision. Who are you to say different?

 
So religion is kind if like science. It changes as we learn more....
And what exactly did these Presbyterians learn? Was it God who told them?
Pretty sure that message was delivered by the gay mafia.
So the Presbyterians learned that gay marriage was okay from the gay mafia and they went along with it? What does that have to do with God? It certainly lends no support to the notion of divinity guiding the church.
Not my notion. Men guide churches and sometimes they are misguided.
I'm sure if you asked they would all say they prayed and God led them to this decision. Who are you to say different?
I see a TV show idea. Jon MX - Religious Detective.Or "Religious ****" if you think it sounds grittier.

 
It's interesting the 83% of American Jews support gay marriage when it's their religion that expressly forbids homosexuality.

The survey, which polled 4,500 Americans, was conducted by the non-partisan Public Religion Research Institute. It found that 53% of Americans support gay marriage, reports AFP. That figure indicates a significant rise from ten years prior; in 2003, American public support for same-sex marriage was at 32%.

A somewhat surprising trend exposed in the research was the widespread support among Americans who attend churches and synagogues.

As noted above, 83% of practicing Jewish Americans came out in favor, 62% of "white mainline Protestants" similarly expressed support, along with 58% of white Catholics and 56% of Hispanic Catholics.

The religious groups with the least support were the black Protestants, at 35%, and white evangelical Protestants, at 27%.

Another trend that became clear was the rising support for 'gay marriage' among young Americans, as 69% of Americans in their 20s and early 30s expressed support.
And Jesus himself was supportive of people with alternative lifestyles going to heaven:

Matthew 19:12

For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others--and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."
 
So religion is kind if like science. It changes as we learn more....
And what exactly did these Presbyterians learn? Was it God who told them?
Pretty sure that message was delivered by the gay mafia.
So the Presbyterians learned that gay marriage was okay from the gay mafia and they went along with it? What does that have to do with God? It certainly lends no support to the notion of divinity guiding the church.
Not my notion. Men guide churches and sometimes they are misguided.
I'm sure if you asked they would all say they prayed and God led them to this decision. Who are you to say different?
I asked God and He said they are full of crap. He said what part of לֹא don't they understand? :shrug:

 
It's interesting the 83% of American Jews support gay marriage when it's their religion that expressly forbids homosexuality.

The survey, which polled 4,500 Americans, was conducted by the non-partisan Public Religion Research Institute. It found that 53% of Americans support gay marriage, reports AFP. That figure indicates a significant rise from ten years prior; in 2003, American public support for same-sex marriage was at 32%.

A somewhat surprising trend exposed in the research was the widespread support among Americans who attend churches and synagogues.

As noted above, 83% of practicing Jewish Americans came out in favor, 62% of "white mainline Protestants" similarly expressed support, along with 58% of white Catholics and 56% of Hispanic Catholics.

The religious groups with the least support were the black Protestants, at 35%, and white evangelical Protestants, at 27%.

Another trend that became clear was the rising support for 'gay marriage' among young Americans, as 69% of Americans in their 20s and early 30s expressed support.
And Jesus himself was supportive of people with alternative lifestyles going to heaven:

Matthew 19:12

For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others--and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."
The reason Jesus came was to save. He is supportive of all believers.

 
jon_mx said:
cstu said:
It's interesting the 83% of American Jews support gay marriage when it's their religion that expressly forbids homosexuality.

The survey, which polled 4,500 Americans, was conducted by the non-partisan Public Religion Research Institute. It found that 53% of Americans support gay marriage, reports AFP. That figure indicates a significant rise from ten years prior; in 2003, American public support for same-sex marriage was at 32%.

A somewhat surprising trend exposed in the research was the widespread support among Americans who attend churches and synagogues.

As noted above, 83% of practicing Jewish Americans came out in favor, 62% of "white mainline Protestants" similarly expressed support, along with 58% of white Catholics and 56% of Hispanic Catholics.

The religious groups with the least support were the black Protestants, at 35%, and white evangelical Protestants, at 27%.

Another trend that became clear was the rising support for 'gay marriage' among young Americans, as 69% of Americans in their 20s and early 30s expressed support.
And Jesus himself was supportive of people with alternative lifestyles going to heaven:

Matthew 19:12

For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others--and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."
The reason Jesus came was to save. He is supportive of all believers.
Then why aren't his believers?

 
jon_mx said:
cstu said:
It's interesting the 83% of American Jews support gay marriage when it's their religion that expressly forbids homosexuality.

The survey, which polled 4,500 Americans, was conducted by the non-partisan Public Religion Research Institute. It found that 53% of Americans support gay marriage, reports AFP. That figure indicates a significant rise from ten years prior; in 2003, American public support for same-sex marriage was at 32%.

A somewhat surprising trend exposed in the research was the widespread support among Americans who attend churches and synagogues.

As noted above, 83% of practicing Jewish Americans came out in favor, 62% of "white mainline Protestants" similarly expressed support, along with 58% of white Catholics and 56% of Hispanic Catholics.

The religious groups with the least support were the black Protestants, at 35%, and white evangelical Protestants, at 27%.

Another trend that became clear was the rising support for 'gay marriage' among young Americans, as 69% of Americans in their 20s and early 30s expressed support.
And Jesus himself was supportive of people with alternative lifestyles going to heaven:

Matthew 19:12

For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others--and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."
The reason Jesus came was to save. He is supportive of all believers.
Then why aren't his believers?
Believers have the same human short-comings as non-believers. Many believers are supportive. I support all people being saved, but that does not mean I have to endorse all their behaviors.

 
Regarding Jews, it's true that the Talmud expressly condemns homosexuality, based on the laws of Leviticus. But the Talmud also has over 600 other extremely stringent laws, most of which most American Jews do not follow. The only way one could properly follow all of those laws is to remove yourself from most aspects of our modern society, as Hasidic Jews tend to do. Even most non Hasidic religious Jews, while they study and revere the Talmud, don't always apply it to themselves.

 
Regarding Jews, it's true that the Talmud expressly condemns homosexuality, based on the laws of Leviticus. But the Talmud also has over 600 other extremely stringent laws, most of which most American Jews do not follow. The only way one could properly follow all of those laws is to remove yourself from most aspects of our modern society, as Hasidic Jews tend to do. Even most non Hasidic religious Jews, while they study and revere the Talmud, don't always apply it to themselves.
Is there anything in the Talmud about message boards?

 
jon_mx said:
cstu said:
It's interesting the 83% of American Jews support gay marriage when it's their religion that expressly forbids homosexuality.

The survey, which polled 4,500 Americans, was conducted by the non-partisan Public Religion Research Institute. It found that 53% of Americans support gay marriage, reports AFP. That figure indicates a significant rise from ten years prior; in 2003, American public support for same-sex marriage was at 32%.

A somewhat surprising trend exposed in the research was the widespread support among Americans who attend churches and synagogues.

As noted above, 83% of practicing Jewish Americans came out in favor, 62% of "white mainline Protestants" similarly expressed support, along with 58% of white Catholics and 56% of Hispanic Catholics.

The religious groups with the least support were the black Protestants, at 35%, and white evangelical Protestants, at 27%.

Another trend that became clear was the rising support for 'gay marriage' among young Americans, as 69% of Americans in their 20s and early 30s expressed support.
And Jesus himself was supportive of people with alternative lifestyles going to heaven:

Matthew 19:12

For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others--and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."
The reason Jesus came was to save. He is supportive of all believers.
Then why aren't his believers?
Believers have the same human short-comings as non-believers. Many believers are supportive. I support all people being saved, but that does not mean I have to endorse all their behaviors.
No one is asking you to endorse all their behaviors you are being asked to get out of their way if they want to get married.

 

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