General Sports Development Question (1 Viewer)

[Gally]

And many professional teams "don't care" because "that's the easiest thing to teach"......

I would find that hard to believe (that they don't care). As a coach that was the thing that drove me nuts more than anything else. There is so much loss due to lack of instincts for the game that players with lesser talent are better in games because they know what to do on their own. Too many runners getting thrown out even when they are the fastest kids because they have no concept of the game. Too many missed out opportunities because players never look for the next out. Sure it can be taught to some degree but the instincts to just know when/what/where to go/do is very costly. That takes hundreds or thousands of innings in game situations to develop.

An org will draft a kid and stick the single A coach to fix it

I get it. I just think game instincts are more important than that. It really isn't "easy to teach" if you want it done well. But it really is the way scouts go now. Gotta be 6-4 and throw 95+ and/or hit the ball 500' with 120 mph exit velo instead of actually knowing how to pitch or play the game. It's sad to me.

 

[belljr]

And I'm not saying they don't care at all, it's why it was in quotes but it's not the top priority

 

[Chadstroma]

I believe most kids would greatly benefit from cross training by playing multiple sports, just like we did when we were kids. Not just physically, but mentally too. Kids need a break. The best players I coached in baseball also played basketball, soccer etc. One kid went on to become the #1 pick in MLS. Another was the #19 pick in the MLB draft. Travel ball is important to play against better competition. The talent drop off with many rec leagues from travel ball is huge. But I would avoid playing year round in any sport if you can help it.

As for the coaching from the stands perspective, it is probably one of my bigger regrets. I was always encouraging if I chirped anything "way to battle, kid". That's OK when I'm coaching from the 3rd base box. But not in the stands. It's so hard to stay quiet but it's best for all. My biggest regret was replaying the game on the way home. Great job backing up the play at 3rd - way to be alert. But then I'd say, "the 2nd time you were up with that 2-0 count, were you sitting on a fastball in a certain spot?". Kids hate reliving games like that and they dread the conversation. Wish I would have picked up on that earlier. If you have kids playing take it from me - don't say a thing after a game. If you want to teach/correct wait until the next practice.

After games, I try to keep it positive after a game. Either give them positive feedback on something "those were really good serves today" or simply "I enjoy watching you play". I will then try to ask questions to get them talking, I like to ask it about the team or teammate or maybe a specific play that isn't about critical feedback... "what happened in that play when you kicked your leg out when you went to the ground for the loose ball?"

With my daughter and my younger son, I will joke with them often about a mistake they made.... "were you trying to hit the banners on that moonshot you did?" because they are generally able to laugh at themselves and find it funny. My older son is a little more defensive and touchy so I usually avoid joking about anything.

With my daughter, I generally will ask her if she wants feedback. Sometimes she does and sometimes she doesn't and if she doesn't I don't press it.

With my older son, I generally avoid giving him coaching or feedback other than basketball when I am his coach. But I limit that to our after game talk unless he talks about it afterwards (which usually will consist of him saying a player did this or the ref didn't call a foul or something like that which I respond, it is part of the game buddy, you need to figure out how to win even when all that happens). There have been some talk after football or swim that would be 'coaching' but it is usually out of conversation and not me doing it.

My youngest is probably the most open to coaching from me. He hasn't done much yet as he is just turning 8 TODAY. Most of it though has been we have been working through some attitude adjustments as he has struggled with emotions and sports. That is something I don't have a choice on and have to address. He has made good progress over the last 6 or so months since it really started to become an issue.

So, overall, my approach is to keep it positive, somewhat avoid coaching but really get to know your kids and their personality. How do they respond in conversations and what do they want and not want from you. I don't think it is uniform the same for all kids because it certainly is not the same among my three. That being said, if all you are doing is coaching them likely all they are hearing is criticism... and kids don't want that from their parents. Some kids may be more sensitive to that than others. Age also plays a big role in this as they get older they are able to hold conversation.

 

[Chadstroma]

Kids are obviously better at young ages because of all the time and effort. However, how much burn out happens by the time they get to high school? I'm a middle school teacher/coach and the majority of these kids who devote their time to a single sport year round aren't playing big time college or professional. Most are fizzling in high school or attending a small school where they might play for a year or two max.

Injury and burn out are huge dangers for one sport athletes.... well, the one sport athletes who play all year long that is.

 

[Chadstroma]

As for the coaching from the stands perspective, it is probably one of my bigger regrets. I was always encouraging if I chirped anything "way to battle, kid". That's OK when I'm coaching from the 3rd base box. But not in the stands. It's so hard to stay quiet but it's best for all. My biggest regret was replaying the game on the way home. Great job backing up the play at 3rd - way to be alert. But then I'd say, "the 2nd time you were up with that 2-0 count, were you sitting on a fastball in a certain spot?". Kids hate reliving games like that and they dread the conversation. Wish I would have picked up on that earlier. If you have kids playing take it from me - don't say a thing after a game. If you want to teach/correct wait until the next practice.

I think there is a happy medium and it is very kid dependent. Really the best time to go over situations/errors/proper plays/etc is right when they happen. It's freshest in the mind and can be the best time to get it to "stick". However, many kids will tune out as you are stating so it ends up being counterproductive. Waiting too long and the kids forget the situation and it doesn't have the same staying power. It is a fine line and one where you have to take queues and approach it accordingly.

After a big win when there was a lot of good, my son would engage about the few things he could have done better and received the "good jobs" as well. The 2-0 swing at an off speed pitch. The forgetting to back up third on a base hit to right kind of stuff. After a good game he was all about trying to get better and go over those things. After a tough loss, don't even talk about the good things. Don't try to point out the positives. Just let him be and when he was ready to talk about it then we did (it took me a long time to figure this one out though as you want to console/help/etc).

Every kid is different and it's tough to not just do what you want to do because you want to help. I still don't agree with the stands encouragement during the game stuff. Direct coaching or having your kid look at you for instruction every pitch or play is terrible. Cheering, encouragement, positives are all fine. It's a game afterall. I will say as my kid has gotten older and has developed the ability to correct things etc when they are noticed I have yelled out key words that will help him get on track if he has lost mechanics etc. It's very few and far between and is only done if he is repeatedly missing his mechanics. It might be something like "front arm" or "stay back" and that's it. They are queues that mean something to him for a specific deficiency. it's not constant and I can understand how this is frowned upon and try and refrain as much as possible but as someone that has coached him on the field for 12 years it's hard to refrain sometimes.

Yea, I don't know about the not cheering. I think kids WANT that. They want nothing more than their parents excited for them when they make a play.

In basketball, that is the hardest for me. For my sons... it won't matter because I am their coach at least until they get to HS. For my daughter... I try to keep to cheering. Her teammates called me their "number one fan" because I would cheer not just my daughter but the whole team. Giving each a high five... well, all except the short one which I gave a low five to.... after the games. My daughter never looks to me for guidance.

As a coach though, our last game, I have two kids on the team that are significantly below average skill level. One of them got the ball near top of the key. This kid struggles to not air ball when he is at the free throw line (and he actually is always past the line as he creeps up) and I hear his father yell "shoot!" as he is nearly at three point distance and still struggling to gather the ball with the defenders about to be on top of him. As a coach, you don't want to hear that. First, it doesn't do the kid any good and second if he is listening to that he isn't listening to me which I have spent a lot of time drilling into the kids that they need to know their range and stick to it. Open shots are fine to take as long as it is in their range. This was so far outside of this kids range he could launch it 100 times and maybe hit something once and again... he didn't even have control of the ball when he gets shouted at to shoot. sigh.

 

[Todem]

And many professional teams "don't care" because "that's the easiest thing to teach"......

I would find that hard to believe (that they don't care). As a coach that was the thing that drove me nuts more than anything else. There is so much loss due to lack of instincts for the game that players with lesser talent are better in games because they know what to do on their own. Too many runners getting thrown out even when they are the fastest kids because they have no concept of the game. Too many missed out opportunities because players never look for the next out. Sure it can be taught to some degree but the instincts to just know when/what/where to go/do is very costly. That takes hundreds or thousands of innings in game situations to develop.

An org will draft a kid and stick the single A coach to fix it

I get it. I just think game instincts are more important than that. It really isn't "easy to teach" if you want it done well. But it really is the way scouts go now. Gotta be 6-4 and throw 95+ and/or hit the ball 500' with 120 mph exit velo instead of actually knowing how to pitch or play the game. It's sad to me.

There are programs out there that value guys who are simply baseball players.....and don’t jump off the page with the “metrics” that don’t measure, heart, IQ and work ethic.

Trust me.....a lot of programs value that.

D2, D3 and NAIA.

The D1 or bust mentality kills me down here in South Florida......delusional parents and players down here.

 

[Todem]

As for the coaching from the stands perspective, it is probably one of my bigger regrets. I was always encouraging if I chirped anything "way to battle, kid". That's OK when I'm coaching from the 3rd base box. But not in the stands. It's so hard to stay quiet but it's best for all. My biggest regret was replaying the game on the way home. Great job backing up the play at 3rd - way to be alert. But then I'd say, "the 2nd time you were up with that 2-0 count, were you sitting on a fastball in a certain spot?". Kids hate reliving games like that and they dread the conversation. Wish I would have picked up on that earlier. If you have kids playing take it from me - don't say a thing after a game. If you want to teach/correct wait until the next practice.

I think there is a happy medium and it is very kid dependent. Really the best time to go over situations/errors/proper plays/etc is right when they happen. It's freshest in the mind and can be the best time to get it to "stick". However, many kids will tune out as you are stating so it ends up being counterproductive. Waiting too long and the kids forget the situation and it doesn't have the same staying power. It is a fine line and one where you have to take queues and approach it accordingly.

After a big win when there was a lot of good, my son would engage about the few things he could have done better and received the "good jobs" as well. The 2-0 swing at an off speed pitch. The forgetting to back up third on a base hit to right kind of stuff. After a good game he was all about trying to get better and go over those things. After a tough loss, don't even talk about the good things. Don't try to point out the positives. Just let him be and when he was ready to talk about it then we did (it took me a long time to figure this one out though as you want to console/help/etc).

Every kid is different and it's tough to not just do what you want to do because you want to help. I still don't agree with the stands encouragement during the game stuff. Direct coaching or having your kid look at you for instruction every pitch or play is terrible. Cheering, encouragement, positives are all fine. It's a game afterall. I will say as my kid has gotten older and has developed the ability to correct things etc when they are noticed I have yelled out key words that will help him get on track if he has lost mechanics etc. It's very few and far between and is only done if he is repeatedly missing his mechanics. It might be something like "front arm" or "stay back" and that's it. They are queues that mean something to him for a specific deficiency. it's not constant and I can understand how this is frowned upon and try and refrain as much as possible but as someone that has coached him on the field for 12 years it's hard to refrain sometimes.

Yea, I don't know about the not cheering. I think kids WANT that. They want nothing more than their parents excited for them when they make a play.

In basketball, that is the hardest for me. For my sons... it won't matter because I am their coach at least until they get to HS. For my daughter... I try to keep to cheering. Her teammates called me their "number one fan" because I would cheer not just my daughter but the whole team. Giving each a high five... well, all except the short one which I gave a low five to.... after the games. My daughter never looks to me for guidance.

As a coach though, our last game, I have two kids on the team that are significantly below average skill level. One of them got the ball near top of the key. This kid struggles to not air ball when he is at the free throw line (and he actually is always past the line as he creeps up) and I hear his father yell "shoot!" as he is nearly at three point distance and still struggling to gather the ball with the defenders about to be on top of him. As a coach, you don't want to hear that. First, it doesn't do the kid any good and second if he is listening to that he isn't listening to me which I have spent a lot of time drilling into the kids that they need to know their range and stick to it. Open shots are fine to take as long as it is in their range. This was so far outside of this kids range he could launch it 100 times and maybe hit something once and again... he didn't even have control of the ball when he gets shouted at to shoot. sigh.

Cheering is always good.

It’s the coaching from the stands crap that is completely out of hand.

 

[acarey50]

Burn out is driven as much by the overbearing parent living vicariously through their kid more than it is from the kid's themselves.

 

[belljr]

And many professional teams "don't care" because "that's the easiest thing to teach"......

I would find that hard to believe (that they don't care). As a coach that was the thing that drove me nuts more than anything else. There is so much loss due to lack of instincts for the game that players with lesser talent are better in games because they know what to do on their own. Too many runners getting thrown out even when they are the fastest kids because they have no concept of the game. Too many missed out opportunities because players never look for the next out. Sure it can be taught to some degree but the instincts to just know when/what/where to go/do is very costly. That takes hundreds or thousands of innings in game situations to develop.

An org will draft a kid and stick the single A coach to fix it

I get it. I just think game instincts are more important than that. It really isn't "easy to teach" if you want it done well. But it really is the way scouts go now. Gotta be 6-4 and throw 95+ and/or hit the ball 500' with 120 mph exit velo instead of actually knowing how to pitch or play the game. It's sad to me.

There are programs out there that value guys who are simply baseball players.....and don’t jump off the page with the “metrics” that don’t measure, heart, IQ and work ethic.

Trust me.....a lot of programs value that.

D2, D3 and NAIA.

The D1 or bust mentality kills me down here in South Florida......delusional parents and players down here.

Yeah I was speaking in general about scouting and how the heads value the actual skills more than "knowing" the game on the pro side. ANd how he see first hand the amount of talented kids that don't know how to actually play....... again its not valuable but some orgs put it below metrics

 

[Chadstroma]

Burn out is driven as much by the overbearing parent living vicariously through their kid more than it is from the kid's themselves.

I think that largely true... though just focusing on one thing all the time and if you are trying to do so at a high level that is basically all consuming a lot of times.... can wear down most people. Even with a healthy parental relationship, kids just need a break or at least variety.