What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Got a troublesome email. [s]Help me figure out if i should reply[/s] meh, i over reacted (1 Viewer)

If you're not trying to win, why be on a team? If you're not trying to win, why coach a team?

If you want to have fun, go play at the park. If you don't set out to go UNDEFEATED. If you don't set out to WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP. You'll never do either.

If any of the players or their parents don't want a winning season, I don't want them on my team or the field.
This is why we suck at soccer vs the rest of the world. 

 
As I said earlier I'm coaching my 7u girls team.  I am a volunteer.   I have never coached soccer before last spring and have no idea what I'm doing...just reading books.  Stop being a #### to volunteers.   I found myself pissed when a team killed us (no scoring) where it was like 35-1 and stoked when my lesser players killed it in a win (we dont actually keep score but you know).  You want to keep the kids and parents to be happy.  So maybe WINNING is being competitive, but we a know that not keeping score is stupid after a certain age.
Tell that to the players in Belgium, who just happen to be a top team in the world

https://trainingground.guru/articles/coaching-revolution-that-took-belgium-to-top-of-world

And I have not said one word to the volunteers so I m not being a ####

 
I have readily said in this thread I could be wrong. Probably more than once :shrug:
Yep. You've always come across as reasonable and have already owned up in this thread which is more than 99.9% of us do when we ask similar questions.

Good on you and best of luck to both of you this year. 

 
It is not the winning. It is the judging the success of the season by only winning

Which means if we win every game but the girls do not develop, then it was a successful season. 

I see it as I would rather them lose and the girls learn and get better every game
The coach said that he's looking forward to a "productive and winning season".

if he was judging success solely by winning he would have said that they were looking forward to a "productive winning season" as though productive and winning are one in the same.  By separating "productive" and "winning" with "and" it opens it up to the interpretation that "productive" includes factors other than winning.  Factors like, say, learning.

Ultimately, regardless of the language, you're likely reading way too much into a comment that was simply intended to be a positive message.

 
Got an email from my daughters (11yo, 6th grade) assistant soccer coach today. It has bothered me all day. I know it shouldn't but I cant seem to let it go. The whole email was odd, but this is the part that upsets me

"Should anyone have any questions about anything above, please reach out to me for additional conversation.  We look forward to a productive and WINNING 2018-2019 season!!"

Do i respond with my feelings that measuring a season on winning is the stupidest thing in 6th grade flight D soccer. 

I coach a varsity soccer team. We start Thursday morning. At our first meeting of the year after practice, my emphasis to them is stressing wins and losses do not matter. I want them to be respectful, hard working and dedicated to the team. Once you put the emphasis on winning, anything short of that is a let down. It is not the way i coach. 

My daughter has already lost the love she had for the game with these two jokers last season. I was hoping this year it would settle down a bit. 

I know a response will do absolutely zero. But do i just do nothing and deal with the stupidity?
Does your varsity team have a history of winning? If so, maybe you could have a talk with the head coach of your daughter's team. Maybe say something like "Hey, I know it's great to win, but let me share something that I always tell my kids on the first day of practice..."

 
The coach said that he's looking forward to a "productive and winning season".

if he was judging success solely by winning he would have said that they were looking forward to a "productive winning season" as though productive and winning are one in the same.  By separating "productive" and "winning" with "and" it opens it up to the interpretation that "productive" includes factors other than winning.  Factors like, say, learning.

Ultimately, regardless of the language, you're likely reading way too much into a comment that was simply intended to be a positive message.
Thank you for the reply

 
Does your varsity team have a history of winning? If so, maybe you could have a talk with the head coach of your daughter's team. Maybe say something like "Hey, I know it's great to win, but let me share something that I always tell my kids on the first day of practice..."
My teams have a good history of winning. But I dont want to make this into I know more than them and will rub it in. 

I will continue to go to the games and cheer my daughter on and be supportive. I will not send a note and hope they create better training sessions this year. Im happy she plays and enjoys it. I am also happy that she has chosen to play another sport. It will only help her in both

 
I'm going to guess that many of the replies here have not been around competitive and successful soccer organizations. 

For a u11 D club, 100% of the focus should be spent on ensuring the kids improve while keeping their passion for the game. This is an incredibly important spot for targeting the late bloomers, who through slower maturity fell "behind" and were pushed to "lesser" clubs. You wouldn't believe how many world class athletes were in this same position. 

When I was 7, my coach at the time took my dad aside and told him I needed to find a new sport, I'd never be good at soccer. 7!

Honestly Acer, if she's already lost her love for the game, due to these two clowns, maybe you can get a few of her teammates together outside of practices and games and take them to a field and just let them play. No parents, no coaches. Just let them play 3v3, 5v5 etc, and have fun again. A few of those sessions, and you'd be surprised how soon the "winning" comes after. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I took it as he has a goal for a productive and winning season. That’s a great goal! Not the only goal but it should be part of what you teach a team - to win. Then when they don’t win, how to lose with class and learn from it.

If he’s a win at all cost coach and a sore loser I might be upset but because he types out he’s looking forward to a winning season, yeah your making to much out of it!

 
 Was dopey for not including this in my post. Acer, do you think it's possible that the coach sees the wins as a byproduct as i has described above? That he is either not eloquent enough to say so, or perhaps he just doesn't feel the need to go through the academic masturbation of explaining to a collection of overworked parents the intricacies of how he is teaching your daughters soccer and life skills? You would know better than me. Maybe he had typed out a long note about what you think a coach should be then deleted it thinking "that no one wants to read that, let's just simplify things"?

 
 Was dopey for not including this in my post. Acer, do you think it's possible that the coach sees the wins as a byproduct as i has described above? That he is either not eloquent enough to say so, or perhaps he just doesn't feel the need to go through the academic masturbation of explaining to a collection of overworked parents the intricacies of how he is teaching your daughters soccer and life skills? You would know better than me. Maybe he had typed out a long note about what you think a coach should be then deleted it thinking "that no one wants to read that, let's just simplify things"?
Unfortunately, the two coaches are clueless. There is no player development. The girls have not learned much. They see wins on the field as success. I think knowing their past made me more upset about it than i what I shared in my post. But ultimately all i wanted this thread to be was whether i should say something. I will not. 

 
Unfortunately, the two coaches are clueless. There is no player development. The girls have not learned much. They see wins on the field as success. I think knowing their past made me more upset about it than i what I shared in my post. But ultimately all i wanted this thread to be was whether i should say something. I will not. 
Well this sheds more light on it than an email. Good luck! 

 
We’re all winners!

 Trophys and orange slices for everyone!!!!!
This topic is shtick right? Fishing expedition? Alright, you caught me.

Disgusting how we've put our youth in a protective shell ... so they don't get upset when they lose.

"doesn't matter if you win or lose" is what is wrong with young adults today. No incentive to try harder and do better ... because it doesn't matter. Less effort.

Carries over into their adulthood and I see it in the workplace .... those that actually do go to work and not just sit home playing video games after graduation.

What the heck was wrong back in the day when kids lost and it hurt, maybe kids even cried, ... helps them grow as a person.

"Man, it sure sucks losing. Next time I'll practice harder ... because I don't want to feel like this again".

... and now Japan, Germany, and 20 other countries kick our tails in "smart kids" because our kids have less effort.

In the workplace there is no effort to do better than their co-worker. There is no fear of losing the job to someone else due to lack of effort.

Sickening.

 
Unfortunately, the two coaches are clueless. There is no player development. The girls have not learned much. They see wins on the field as success. I think knowing their past made me more upset about it than i what I shared in my post. But ultimately all i wanted this thread to be was whether i should say something. I will not. 
Are the coaches getting paid? And count me in the group that thinks you are taking this way too seriously.

That said, I had a kid play club soccer at that age. And it was a pretty well-run organization. The president of the soccer club is a former NFL quarterback. He had 3 kids playing soccer at the time. And my son was in the same age group as one of his kids. At any rate, the president was going on and on about how they were stressing "learning the game", "teamwork", "attitude", and "it's not about winning"... all good things.

Except when the teams were divided, all of the good kids were on one team. And they won everything. I don't think the other teams won a single game that season. My thought was that if the teams were divided more equally, it would have been a more level playing field, and thus more conducive to a positive learning experience. They may not have won every game, but it would have been more competitive for everyone. And it would have been more enjoyable. As it turned out, most of the kids on the losing teams quit the organization at year's end.

It just bothered me that they stressed "learning" and that winning was not important. And that's super easy to say when your kid is winning everything. But clearly that was all BS. If it wasn't important, you think you would at least let these kids know what it feels like to have some success.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Unfortunately, the two coaches are clueless. There is no player development. The girls have not learned much. They see wins on the field as success. I think knowing their past made me more upset about it than i what I shared in my post. But ultimately all i wanted this thread to be was whether i should say something. I will not. 
I have coached my boys since they started in basketball, football, baseball, and soccer.  I don't know a whole lot but always tried to do basic fundamentals trying to keep it fun and moving.  My oldest has the son of the high school varsity baseball coach on his team.  He has only helped at 2 or 3 practices a year as he has an older son he coaches.  I would love for him to give some input on things to work on.  Just some simple things for basic skills he would like them to learn.  Just offer himself up as a resource for ideas.

 
Are the coaches getting paid? And count me in the group that thinks you are taking this way too seriously.

That said, I had a kid play club soccer at that age. And it was a pretty well-run organization. The president of the soccer club is a former NFL quarterback. He had 3 kids playing soccer at the time. And my son was in the same age group as one of his kids. At any rate, the president was going on and on about how they were stressing "learning the game", "teamwork", "attitude", and "it's not about winning"... all good things.

Except when the teams were divided, all of the good kids were on one team. And they won everything. I don't think the other teams won a single game that season. My thought was that if the teams were divided more equally, it would have been a more level playing field, and thus more conducive to a positive learning experience. They may not have won every game, but it would have been more competitive for everyone. And it would have been more enjoyable. As it turned out, most of the kids on the losing teams quit the organization at year's end.

It just bothered me that they stressed "learning" and that winning was not important. And that's super easy to say when your kid is winning everything. But clearly that was all BS. If it wasn't important, you think you would at least let these kids know what it feels like to have some success.
He already indicated they were volunteers. 

As for your issue, it is not uncommon at all for the goals to differ between the organization and the coaches. Once the teams are sent out, the organization usually has no contact unless parents are complaining. Even with that, most organizations are lucky to get enough parents willing to coach, so it isn't like they are going to kick a coach out because little Billy isnt getting better. 

 
Got an email from my daughters (11yo, 6th grade) assistant soccer coach today. It has bothered me all day. I know it shouldn't but I cant seem to let it go. The whole email was odd, but this is the part that upsets me

"Should anyone have any questions about anything above, please reach out to me for additional conversation.  We look forward to a productive and WINNING 2018-2019 season!!"

Do i respond with my feelings that measuring a season on winning is the stupidest thing in 6th grade flight D soccer. 

I coach a varsity soccer team. We start Thursday morning. At our first meeting of the year after practice, my emphasis to them is stressing wins and losses do not matter. I want them to be respectful, hard working and dedicated to the team. Once you put the emphasis on winning, anything short of that is a let down. It is not the way i coach. 

My daughter has already lost the love she had for the game with these two jokers last season. I was hoping this year it would settle down a bit. 

I know a response will do absolutely zero. But do i just do nothing and deal with the stupidity?
Parent's are really f'ing weird. 

 
I had an experience with a bad soccer coach.  Not an inexperienced one, a bad one.  I have coached both my kids on and off in soccer, flag football, baseball, basketball, and probably something else I'm forgetting every season from 5 to their now 12 and 10.  My older son was about 9 and on a local rec team.  He was just coming back to soccer after deciding he didn't like it and he didn't play for a couple of years, then changed his mind and started back up.  I had been coaching my younger son's team for a couple years and stayed as head coach of his team and said I would assist with my older son's team because I couldn't guarantee that I could make all games if there was a conflict.  My older son's team was assigned a head coach I didn't know.

The coach had two go-to activities in practice.  Start with getting into two lines and one passes and the other shoots.  No instruction on how to pass, no defender for pressure / timing of pass, no instruction on shooting form, just go do it.  Kids standing in line and then shooting every so often for almost a half hour.  Then he'd have the kids scrimmage with no variations, no guidance and no stops for instruction.  That was it.  The coach's son didn't seem that interested in playing and a few times every practice the coach would yell at his kid, or make a snide remark to him, or get really frustrated and grab or shove the kid.  If I wasn't a coach and knew I was the only person that was going to help the situation and the kids I probably would have pulled my son from the team but I tried to work with him to make things better.

Early on I emailed him and said I had some ideas for other things we could work on at the next practice so I could run one for him.  Got there early and set up a few stations with cones and got the kids started on first touch, receiving with correct foot, head up and finding your target for quick passes, etc.  Quick ball movement stuff where no one was standing around.  He was not a fan.  Endured it for ten minutes or so and started picking up my cones and told the kids to line up for shooting.  First few games his kick and chase approach became very apparent. We had another parent start to "help" and the two of them would spend a good portion of the game yelling at the kids, the ref, the other team, etc.  Embarrassing.

I continually tried to bring him around but wasn't working.  I sent an email at one point with things I noticed from games and some ideas for things we could try in practice to work on them if he was interested.  I also very gently noted that the approach I take with my other teams is to focus on development and overall play on the field rather than scoring goals and winning. He flipped out. Response about how I'm treating him like he never coached before, he can't stand being corrected, he doesn't need my micromanagement, he understands how to run a practice and keep kids active and focused, etc, etc.  I apologized and patched things up and did my best to help the kids out.

We finished out the season with the team even though fewer and fewer kids were coming and we even had to play short in the last game or two.  Since then I have either coached my kids' teams or made sure I knew the coach if I couldn't.  Wasn't too hard because I enjoy coaching anyway.  Just had to get better at the scheduling and/or make sure I had someone else coaching with me that had a similar approach when I had to miss due to a conflict. 

Actually, both kids just started with new clubs this year and its the first season I'm not coaching any soccer.  They each tried out for three different clubs to make sure it was a good fit with the kids and coaches.  We've had a couple new clubs start up in the area which are unfortunately pulling kids away from the local teams and everyone's struggling with numbers when you hit U13 11v11.  Also still feeling the effects of the change from school year to calendar year on the rosters too.  My older son's 2006 team disbanded and he had to find a new one.  My younger son moved with some kids from his team and the head coach over to a new club.

What was I talking about again?  Oh yeah, sure a kick and chase team with some fast kids is going to win when the kids are still learning and some parents / coaches will get excited about that, but if that's all the kids can do, the game is going to pass them by eventually.  As kids get older and you get into middle school, high school, college, you need to have the skills and head to play.  If the kids are only in it for a year or two maybe that doesn't matter but if they want to play for years, they need to develop their skills.

 
This topic is shtick right? Fishing expedition? Alright, you caught me.

Disgusting how we've put our youth in a protective shell ... so they don't get upset when they lose.

"doesn't matter if you win or lose" is what is wrong with young adults today. No incentive to try harder and do better ... because it doesn't matter. Less effort.

Carries over into their adulthood and I see it in the workplace .... those that actually do go to work and not just sit home playing video games after graduation.

What the heck was wrong back in the day when kids lost and it hurt, maybe kids even cried, ... helps them grow as a person.

"Man, it sure sucks losing. Next time I'll practice harder ... because I don't want to feel like this again".

... and now Japan, Germany, and 20 other countries kick our tails in "smart kids" because our kids have less effort.

In the workplace there is no effort to do better than their co-worker. There is no fear of losing the job to someone else due to lack of effort.

Sickening.
You forgot "Get off my lawn"

 
Except when the teams were divided, all of the good kids were on one team. And they won everything. I don't think the other teams won a single game that season. My thought was that if the teams were divided more equally, it would have been a more level playing field, and thus more conducive to a positive learning experience. They may not have won every game, but it would have been more competitive for everyone. And it would have been more enjoyable. As it turned out, most of the kids on the losing teams quit the organization at year's end.
This was always a conversation / debate in our coaches meetings for our town club that had rec and travel. 

One way is mix all the kids of different skills together.  Hopefully the less skilled, less aggressive kids pay attention to the better kids and have a chance to improve from playing with them.  Also, you never know if a kid who has just started playing or hasn't grown yet will be in for a big improvement and end up a better player.

The other way is to break the kids into skill levels, like rec and travel.  The downside of playing all skill levels together is the dominant players will take over and hold the ball more giving fewer touches to the less skilled, less aggressive players.  I've also seen less skilled players shrink away from the ball in these situations so the better kids had more chances.  One of the benefits is with similar skill levels playing together there is more even play across the team.  Kids with better awareness and vision get a chance to start playing more of a  possession game and not turn the ball over.

I have coached both rec and travel and seen examples of all of the above.  When my older son made his first travel team it was probably a mistake for us.  He had been one of the best and most dependable players on his rec team  but when he got to travel he would step back and not go to the ball because the other kids were much better and he felt self conscious.  We dropped down to the travel B team the next year and he was getting more involved and improved over the year.

Its tough and the best approach probably varies kid to kid to its tough to do whats right for each when you have to lump them all together.  I will say if you separate the kids by skill level, I don't think they should be playing in the same league.  Each should be playing in a league appropriate to skill level, that's why someone split them up in the first place right?

 
This topic is shtick right? Fishing expedition? Alright, you caught me.

Disgusting how we've put our youth in a protective shell ... so they don't get upset when they lose.

"doesn't matter if you win or lose" is what is wrong with young adults today. No incentive to try harder and do better ... because it doesn't matter. Less effort.

Carries over into their adulthood and I see it in the workplace .... those that actually do go to work and not just sit home playing video games after graduation.

What the heck was wrong back in the day when kids lost and it hurt, maybe kids even cried, ... helps them grow as a person.

"Man, it sure sucks losing. Next time I'll practice harder ... because I don't want to feel like this again".

... and now Japan, Germany, and 20 other countries kick our tails in "smart kids" because our kids have less effort.

In the workplace there is no effort to do better than their co-worker. There is no fear of losing the job to someone else due to lack of effort.

Sickening.
This might have been the guy I coached with, you from PA?

We're not talking about getting the kids to not want to win.  We're talking about getting kids to focus on playing the right way so they develop into players that have the skills to compete and win at the higher levels.  This is about taking the long view, not about trying to develop "snowflakes".  It's easy to kick and chase and just try to score a bunch of goals,  It takes effort and focus to become a better player.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I honestly don't know how or why anyone would want to volunteer to coach these days. Kids and their parents are unbearable. Just seeing the complete lack of respect displayed in public, where parents let their kids do whatever they want is nauseating. 

 
I honestly don't know how or why anyone would want to volunteer to coach these days. Kids and their parents are unbearable. Just seeing the complete lack of respect displayed in public, where parents let their kids do whatever they want is nauseating. 
I love my kids and I like working with other kids.  I've never really had any problems with kids or their parents on my teams.  The key is setting the expectations at the beginning of the season and good lines of communication.

 
This might have been the guy I coached with, you from PA?

We're not talking about getting the kids to not want to win.  We're talking about getting kids to focus on playing the right way so they develop into players that have the skills to compete and win at the higher levels.  This is about taking the long view, not about trying to develop "snowflakes".  It's easy to kick and chase and just try to score a bunch of goals,  It takes effort and focus to become a better player.
"Should anyone have any questions about anything above, please reach out to me for additional conversation.  We look forward to a productive and WINNING 2018-2019 season!!"

This offended the OP to the point of considering replying to this coach.

What you are describing in your post sounds like what this coach is calling "productive" ... develop skills, pass, defend, score goals.

and WINNING ... how dare this coach have a positive attitude.

Do you think this coach realizes that he's offended somebody by him suggesting they will win? 

Should he have worded it .... "We look forward to a productive and FUN 2018-2019 season!!" ... so as not to offend?

Where's #Ron Swanson. My goodness this is silly. You guys are shticking me right?

 
"Should anyone have any questions about anything above, please reach out to me for additional conversation.  We look forward to a productive and WINNING 2018-2019 season!!"

This offended the OP to the point of considering replying to this coach.

What you are describing in your post sounds like what this coach is calling "productive" ... develop skills, pass, defend, score goals.

and WINNING ... how dare this coach have a positive attitude.

Do you think this coach realizes that he's offended somebody by him suggesting they will win? 

Should he have worded it .... "We look forward to a productive and FUN 2018-2019 season!!" ... so as not to offend?

Where's #Ron Swanson. My goodness this is silly. You guys are shticking me right?
I don't know, I don't know any of these guys. :shrug:

From your post it just seemed to bother you even more than the OP.

This is part of my standard initial welcome email for a flag football team I coach in a "for fun, equal playing time" league, does it also disgust and sicken you?...

My first priority is for the kids to have fun.  We will not focus on wins or losses but on continued improvement and great team play.  After this you will receive a couple other emails with some more details and info on our general approach to the game.  It will help keep the kids clear on the what to do when we play the games and lets them focus on playing and having fun. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
"Should anyone have any questions about anything above, please reach out to me for additional conversation.  We look forward to a productive and WINNING 2018-2019 season!!"

This offended the OP to the point of considering replying to this coach.

What you are describing in your post sounds like what this coach is calling "productive" ... develop skills, pass, defend, score goals.

and WINNING ... how dare this coach have a positive attitude.

Do you think this coach realizes that he's offended somebody by him suggesting they will win? 

Should he have worded it .... "We look forward to a productive and FUN 2018-2019 season!!" ... so as not to offend?

Where's #Ron Swanson. My goodness this is silly. You guys are shticking me right?
In Acers defense "this" alone didn't offend him to the point of considering reaching out to the coaches. 

It was a whole year + of the coaches marking an importance on winning primarily with little to no foundation on learning fundamentals. 

OP hoped that this your would be differnet and the tone of the email suggested otherwise in his mind.

 
In Acers defense "this" alone didn't offend him to the point of considering reaching out to the coaches. 

It was a whole year + of the coaches marking an importance on winning primarily with little to no foundation on learning fundamentals. 

OP hoped that this your would be differnet and the tone of the email suggested otherwise in his mind.
Allright. That's different.

In my experience, the coaches that don't teach fundamentals don't know fundamentals. (or they're just not good at teaching).

With youth sports your usually counting on one or two of the few Dads that actually has time to coach the team. This dad may never have played soccer in his life.

... or basketball ... or lacrosse ... or whatever sport he's agreed to coach. He just happens to be the one that has the time to do it.

he goes online to find some drills to run in practice and pretends to know what's up.

Criticize if you want but not his fault that nobody more qualified stepped up to take the position.   

Because he doesn't know fundamentals, he doesn't realize what the kids are lacking .... so he judges there success in wins and losses.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Users who are viewing this thread

Top