"Great" college QB (1 Viewer)

[the hairy scotsman]

I would gladly trade the Titans top two WRs (Williams and Gage) for:Booker and Ginn Jr.S. Moss and Randle ElMason and ClaytonEvans and ReedBerrian and MushinColes and CotcheryHoly cow, looking over that list, it isn't even CLOSE. The teams listed as having worse WRs then Tennessee are not only better at the 1 and 2, but SIGNIFICANTLY better.

Yeah. It's hilarious.I'll be the first to admit the Tennessee offense and VY have not had a good year, but some in this thread are so over the top with the hyperbole and idiotic comparisons. Nature of the internet, I guess.

 

[gianmarco]

I really don't think there is an issue of Tenn having the worst WR corp in the league (or at least bottom 3 if you're generous). They are just that bad.

I think one of the big differences between this year and last year that has affected Young's production the most is actually the defense. Last year, Tenn defense was ranked DEAD LAST in total defense. There were 27th vs. the pass and 30th vs the run. They literally couldn't stop anyone. Henry was a good runner for them last year, but Vince was asked to do quite a bit more and thus had better rushing stats and comparable passing stats. And oftentimes, he delivered. This led to decent fantasy production and why he was so hyped. When asked to do it, he was absolutely able to lead his team down the field when they needed it, and the fact they finished 8-8 in 2006 with that horrid defense and no playmakers on offense aside from Henry and Young is amazing.

This year, Tenn is the 5th BEST defense in the league. Complete 180 degree turnaround, and a pretty dominant stuffing defense at that. Therefore, with a solid defense and a very solid running game (which they have been for the last few yrs), the Titans haven't needed to rely on Young to make as many plays. Jeff Fisher isn't one of the top coaches in the league for no reason. He realized with their defense and running game, a low-scoring grind-it-out type of game was their best recipe for success, not having Young wing it around to guys like Williams and Gage. I don't think it's so much that Young COULDN'T make the plays, it's just that he really didn't have to so much this year. I still wouldn't call him a game manager in terms of someone like Dilfer or Orton, guys that were just asked to hand off the ball and not turn it over. The reason some QBs are "game managers" is because that's really all they're able to do. If it comes down to them having to make plays for a win, they often fall short. Not the case for Young. However, I just think they realized their best chance with their limited weapons was to rely on the running game and their stout defense and they were absolutely successful in doing so, finishing at 10-6 and making it to the playoffs.

So what about the future? Well, I don't really know. Will the team resign Haynesworth? Will the defense continue to be as dominant? Will they acquire some more weapons for Young so they can open up the offense a little more and allow him to make more plays like he did in 2006. I think only time will tell, but the reason for Young's poor #'s this year aren't all related to Young and his ability to be a successful NFL QB. This is why I think it's still too early to decide whether he'll be successful. We can dissect the #'s all we want, but I just don't agree he's a player you can lump into the same categories as Losman, Orton, Smith, etc. or even Vick, McNabb, Culpepper, McNair because we really don't know how he's going to be used from here on out. The fact that he's been compared to so many different types of QB's just shows that he doesn't really fit a specific mold, IMO.

P.S.--NOT a Tenn fan and not a Young owner in any keeper league, for disclosure's sake.

 

[Colin Dowling]

I would gladly trade the Titans top two WRs (Williams and Gage) for:Booker and Ginn Jr.S. Moss and Randle ElMason and ClaytonEvans and ReedBerrian and MushinColes and CotcheryHoly cow, looking over that list, it isn't even CLOSE. The teams listed as having worse WRs then Tennessee are not only better at the 1 and 2, but SIGNIFICANTLY better.

The only team that really compares is Minny...and at least they have a young kid in Rice who showed something this year.

...and Bobby Wade, who was the Titans best WR last year.

Will the team resign Haynesworth? Will the defense continue to be as dominant? Will they acquire some more weapons for Young so they can open up the offense a little more and allow him to make more plays like he did in 2006.

99% certainty. Yes. Hopefully.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Will the team resign Haynesworth? Will the defense continue to be as dominant?

Well, this is HUGE, imho.As good as the D was with Haynesworth in the game and healthy, they were inconsistent to pretty bad without him.They must either re-sign him or replace him (easier said than done). He's an absolute monster, and the key to that D. If they can keep him, with PacMan returning, the D looks to be pretty stout.

 

[Banger]

Will the team resign Haynesworth? Will the defense continue to be as dominant?

Well, this is HUGE, imho.As good as the D was with Haynesworth in the game and healthy, they were inconsistent to pretty bad without him.They must either re-sign him or replace him (easier said than done). He's an absolute monster, and the key to that D. If they can keep him, with PacMan returning, the D looks to be pretty stout.

is he a UFA or RFA? The defense was night and day without him. It was a Bob Sanders type impact...

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Will the team resign Haynesworth? Will the defense continue to be as dominant?

Well, this is HUGE, imho.As good as the D was with Haynesworth in the game and healthy, they were inconsistent to pretty bad without him.They must either re-sign him or replace him (easier said than done). He's an absolute monster, and the key to that D. If they can keep him, with PacMan returning, the D looks to be pretty stout.

is he a UFA or RFA? The defense was night and day without him. It was a Bob Sanders type impact...

Not sure, but I agree about the night/day.

 

[Banger]

Will the team resign Haynesworth? Will the defense continue to be as dominant?

Well, this is HUGE, imho.As good as the D was with Haynesworth in the game and healthy, they were inconsistent to pretty bad without him.They must either re-sign him or replace him (easier said than done). He's an absolute monster, and the key to that D. If they can keep him, with PacMan returning, the D looks to be pretty stout.

is he a UFA or RFA? The defense was night and day without him. It was a Bob Sanders type impact...

Not sure, but I agree about the night/day.

Haynesworth missed 3 games and in those 3 games they went 0-3 and gave up 28 (Jax), 34 (Den) and 35 (Cinn) for an average of 32.33pt/game. When Haynesworth played they were 10-3 and averaged 15.38 pts against. The guy is unreal.

 

[Da Guru]

Will the team resign Haynesworth? Will the defense continue to be as dominant?

Well, this is HUGE, imho.As good as the D was with Haynesworth in the game and healthy, they were inconsistent to pretty bad without him.

They must either re-sign him or replace him (easier said than done). He's an absolute monster, and the key to that D. If they can keep him, with PacMan returning, the D looks to be pretty stout.

is he a UFA or RFA? The defense was night and day without him. It was a Bob Sanders type impact...

Not sure, but I agree about the night/day.

Haynesworth missed 3 games and in those 3 games they went 0-3 and gave up 28 (Jax), 34 (Den) and 35 (Cinn) for an average of 32.33pt/game. When Haynesworth played they were 10-3 and averaged 15.38 pts against. The guy is unreal.

Haynesworth just wins!

 

[Banger]

Will the team resign Haynesworth? Will the defense continue to be as dominant?

Well, this is HUGE, imho.As good as the D was with Haynesworth in the game and healthy, they were inconsistent to pretty bad without him.

They must either re-sign him or replace him (easier said than done). He's an absolute monster, and the key to that D. If they can keep him, with PacMan returning, the D looks to be pretty stout.

is he a UFA or RFA? The defense was night and day without him. It was a Bob Sanders type impact...

Not sure, but I agree about the night/day.

Haynesworth missed 3 games and in those 3 games they went 0-3 and gave up 28 (Jax), 34 (Den) and 35 (Cinn) for an average of 32.33pt/game. When Haynesworth played they were 10-3 and averaged 15.38 pts against. The guy is unreal.

Haynesworth just wins!

That's hysterical. Maybe someone should show this to the VY supporters. Haynesworth seems much more important than VY does.

 

[FUBAR]

That's hysterical. Maybe someone should show this to the VY supporters. Haynesworth seems much more important than VY does.

We won't deny that. Haynesworth is a stud. However, you need impact players on both offense and defense. Does Bob Sanders being a stud make Peyton Manning any less of a player?

 

[Banger]

That's hysterical. Maybe someone should show this to the VY supporters. Haynesworth seems much more important than VY does.

We won't deny that. Haynesworth is a stud. However, you need impact players on both offense and defense. Does Bob Sanders being a stud make Peyton Manning any less of a player?

Their run stopping surely suffered greatly when Sanders was out but they didn't lose all their games. Then again it goes with saying that Manning >>>>>>>>VY.BTW...Sanders played 4 games last year and the Colts were 3-1, while they were 9-3 in games he missed.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Will the team resign Haynesworth? Will the defense continue to be as dominant?

Well, this is HUGE, imho.As good as the D was with Haynesworth in the game and healthy, they were inconsistent to pretty bad without him.

They must either re-sign him or replace him (easier said than done). He's an absolute monster, and the key to that D. If they can keep him, with PacMan returning, the D looks to be pretty stout.

is he a UFA or RFA? The defense was night and day without him. It was a Bob Sanders type impact...

Not sure, but I agree about the night/day.

Haynesworth missed 3 games and in those 3 games they went 0-3 and gave up 28 (Jax), 34 (Den) and 35 (Cinn) for an average of 32.33pt/game. When Haynesworth played they were 10-3 and averaged 15.38 pts against. The guy is unreal.

Haynesworth just wins!

That's hysterical. Maybe someone should show this to the VY supporters. Haynesworth seems much more important than VY does.

This isn't a secret to any Titans or VY followers. Everyone knows how valuable AH is to that team.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

\

That's hysterical. Maybe someone should show this to the VY supporters. Haynesworth seems much more important than VY does.

We won't deny that. Haynesworth is a stud. However, you need impact players on both offense and defense. Does Bob Sanders being a stud make Peyton Manning any less of a player?

Their run stopping surely suffered greatly when Sanders was out but they didn't lose all their games. Then again it goes with saying that Manning >>>>>>>>VY.BTW...Sanders played 4 games last year and the Colts were 3-1, while they were 9-3 in games he missed.

OK...they were .750 either way. So Sanders had no effect. But what about VY's & PM's supporting casts? Surely you're not suggesting they're the same, or even remotely similar in quality. Do you think Manning would have had the same success in VY's shoes without AH as he did in Indy without BS?

This is where these comparisons get silly.

This also kinda says to me that AH is to his mediocre-to-poor defense what VY is to his poor offense...while Sanders has a better defense surrounding him. Obviously, both Indy's offense and defense are much better from top to bottom.

 

[FUBAR]

Then again it goes with saying that Manning >>>>>>>>VY.

and yet, here you are.

 

[SSOG]

Cutler's backup, Patrick Ramsey, has more conversions on 3rd-and-10+ (6) than Vince Young does (5).

When Ramsey, an utter failure as a QB, can produce in those situations, that should tell you that on the whole, Denver offense does well in these situations.

When Ron Dayne can produce more than Shaun Alexander, does that tell me that Houston's rushing attack is better than Seattle's, or does that simply tell me that Shaun Alexander is D-O-N-E? If you need a little bit of help, I'm happy to oblige- Seattle rushed for more yards than Houston at an identical ypc, so I doubt it's the former.When Ramsey outproduces Young at something, it might mean that Ramsey was in a great situation. It might also mean that Ramsey's sample size was abysmal (he was 6-of-6 on converting 3rd and 10+). It might also mean that Young really was that terrible throwing the ball this year. When all the other stats suggest that Young was that terrible throwing the ball this year, that'd be the conclusion I'm leaning more towards.

Cutler is the best passer from that class at this point, there's no question there. What's your point on Cutler getting sacked more than Young? He also passed more. Usually with more attempts comes more sacks, all else being equal.Anyway, this whole thread is pointless if you're insisting that the only measure of a QB is passer rating, and the only one responsible for completions is the QB. That seems to be your premise. I'd rather win games. As wrong as you are, I'm still not entirely sure what your point is if Young were to be Vick on the field. Vick won games. He was a thug, but he won games. Young has morals, he just needs to mature.At this point, it appears you're arguing just to argue. Which is fine, but I'd like to know what your ultimate point is. If it's simply that Young isn't as good a passer as Cutler, Schaub, Favre, Brady, Romo, Peyton... fine. Nobody is arguing that he is. All I'm saying is he's benefitted Tennessee as only a few other QBs in this league have helped their team in their 2nd year in the NFL. I would like to see how he performs with capable WRs as all of those I mentioned have.

My point is that Young did not, to borrow your words, "[benefit] Tennessee as only a few other QBs in this league have helped their team in their 2nd year in the NFL". Young, this season, as as much hindrance as help. Pointing to his winning percentage doesn't mean much to me, either- Roethlisberger won the superbowl, but you can't tell me that Pittsburgh won as a result of Roethlisberger.