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Then it's the concepts, not the question about them, which are poorly formed because the people who preach against the supposed dangers of toxic masculinity or lack of masculinity are the ones arguing that ####head activity is an end product of too much or too little masculinity. I'm just asking whether you think their arguments are correct and are serious societal ills.
I think if we analyzed the #### out of these things 100 years ago we wouldn’t be where we are now with them.
I think some boys have always struggled to fit into traditional masculine roles. But social media has made everything so public that what once seemed a internal issue the boy could try to work his way through is now flung in his face at every turn.
Why is a 15 year old boy supposed to “work through” things on his own when his dad throws him out for not being “masculine enough”?
I’ve made it quite clear that I watch horrible reality tv. I believe there’s even a thread several years old.
It's just funny. Being thrown out at fifteen for dancing isn't. I believe I've been pretty measured in this thread; no need for carryover from the other one.
speaking generically --
I didn’t. You did. There and here. I didn’t say a word about what a jerk you’re being anywhere else.
I think I agree with all of this. I think a lack of reasonable, worthwhile masculinity often leads to instead following toxic masculinity.
I think "toxic masculinity" is a new phrase for characterizing old problems. It's kind of a catch-all, sure, but I don't think it's a mis-characterization for a set of negative behaviors that arise from trying to fit one's self into a narrow definition of what a "man" should be.
This starts early in many schools. Instead of teaching boys how to control or channel their behavior in more positive ways they are simply punished for it. This simply suppresses the behavior, it never goes away and they are never taught how to deal with it. At some point later it pops up as “toxic masculinity” at an age and in situations where it’s much harder to deal with.
You are going to need to unpack that because I still think men run Hollywood and most movies are directed, produced and about men.
Our schools are phasing out PE and recess and catering to sitting still and stifling all that energy that boys have. Girls can handle it so much better, but boys can't and our education system is not catering to the needs of the boys at all, just punishing them for expressing those needs.
Just put that in the back of your mind and keep an eye out when watching new shows and movies coming out. That's all I'm saying.
Then you've been listening to bad arguments.
What movies? Give me some specific examples because this sounds ridiculous righ now because I am thinking about all the big movies recently and most them involve male super heroes.
Meh. Stopped reading when they were talking about pants over skirts. Saris, togas, kilts and sarongs have ALL been historically worn by men. In fact, one might make the argument that the "pant" is actually the ultimate attempt to subjugate or pervert men.....by making us "corral" or "contstrict" our masculine body parts instead of just letting them flop freely on the the ground as they did for our forefathers.
He's probably talking about a few bad sitcoms where the dads are the dummies of the household while ignoring the other 90% of Hollywood's products.
For several years running now, almsot all of the biggest films each year involve men playing actual super heroes so I think that balances out Homer Simpson and old shows like Married with Children.
Meh.
I know it's probably not what you want to focus on here, but I'm curious to find out where the line is for him. Assuming he's a general sports fan, what other sports won't he watch?
Do you watch a lot of family sitcoms? I don't so I can't comment on those shows beyond a few of the most famous ones.
I'll ask him next time I see him and report back. He's fairly cool so he probably won't mind my questions.I know it's probably not what you want to focus on here, but I'm curious to find out where the line is for him. Assuming he's a general sports fan, what other sports won't he watch?
I'd assume boxing and MMA have got to be no brainers. Female versions, too (and it's still considered toxic masculinity there?).
Hockey has to be out, right? Is there enough non-masculine flipping and flopping to give soccer a pass?
Who is actually saying this? List names and links. You're taking an extremist view and characterizing it as a mainstream view.
I watch less than I used to.
My wife every once and awhile will put one on. Blackish- has a good dad. Modern Family has lots of good dads- they are all a bit zany, but really good people. The dad on The Middle is also a stand guy. I just think maybe the family sitcom isn't a popular show right now as it has been so played out over the years- there is very little new ground to explore in that realm.
Yeah the ####ty dad thing was originally done to poke fun at the stereotypical dads of the 50s and 60s. Archie Bunker and George Jefferson being the most famous examples. I have actually read that Bill Cosby specifically wanted his character on the Cosby show to reflect a competent, intelligent and caring dad because he felt that dumb useless dad trope was becoming too common by the 80s. Obviously Homer and Al Bundy took the stupid dad thing to a new level in the 90s. It's a very worn out set-up.
I guess Married With Children was revolutionary in a way, because they were all dip####s.
I find this an odd statement. What exactly is a man's man, and why has it been challenging for such people in some greater degree than non-man's men (whatever that means)? And why this country rather than Argentina, or Japan, or Nepal, or Ethiopia, or Austria, or any other country?
I think you'd have a hard time arguing that the invention of pants was an attempt to subjugate men.
