Greatest QB of All-Time (1 Viewer)

[CalBear]

If we're simply debating Elway vs. Favre, I'll take Elway every time. Yup, some of Favre's stats are better, percentage wise. But I'll also argue that Favre's supporting cast on offense was significantly better than Elway's. For most of his career, Elway's supporting cast on offense was Shannon Sharpe and a bunch of journeymen.

Oh, and if you want to argue that taking supporting cast into account isn't fair, then I'll simply point to Elway's 2 Super Bowl rings to Favre's 1, and Elway's 5 conference championships to Favre's 2.

What supporting cast has Favre had? Elway had a league MVP running back--the only MVP Green Bay has had is Favre himself. Green Bay has never had more than six Pro Bowlers since Favre arrived; the Broncos had six once, eight once, and nine once during Elway's time. The only potential HoF player who overlapped with Favre was Reggie White.

Favre had an 1800 yard/20 TD running back and couldn't get the job done. When Elway had that, he took advantage.

Yeah, Favre should have been playing DB on fourth and 25.

 

[eriadoc]

The Patriots were worse than the Bengals until Bledsoe was injured and Brady was put in.Bledsoe is doing fantastic this year. And he wasn't too bad with the Patriots. Brady just added a new dimension to the team and is a PLAYMAKER. Watching him play for a few years, I can say that no one can outdo the man. He has the physical aspect and mental aspect of QBing down, and fights his team out of holes (he's on pace to SHATTER the come from behind victory record).BTW, he's STILL undefeated in OT. *knock on wood*

I like Brady, so don't misconstrue my statements here, but the Pats were pretty darn good before Brady. They went to a SB (and lost) with Bledsoe at the helm. Brady stepped up and performed well when Bledoe lost his job due to injury, but when Brady went down later, it was Bledsoe that stepped in and played well. People like to conveniently forget that Bledsoe was the one that led that team on the drive that really clinched the SB win. That team had players on it in many positions that stepped up and played well. I don't see mediocre for that team at all.

 

[Reservoir Dog]

John Elway

yes, I agree

 

[Reservoir Dog]

If we're simply debating Elway vs. Favre, I'll take Elway every time. Yup, some of Favre's stats are better, percentage wise. But I'll also argue that Favre's supporting cast on offense was significantly better than Elway's. For most of his career, Elway's supporting cast on offense was Shannon Sharpe and a bunch of journeymen.

Oh, and if you want to argue that taking supporting cast into account isn't fair, then I'll simply point to Elway's 2 Super Bowl rings to Favre's 1, and Elway's 5 conference championships to Favre's 2.

Yep, give me the greatest field general of all time. How many mediocre teams did he carry to the Super Bowl?

 

[CalBear]

Yep, give me the greatest field general of all time. How many mediocre teams did he carry to the Super Bowl?

As noted above: None.

 

[Koya]

Goodness, there is one answer and the rest battle for second.  Some folks need to learn themselves some history.

Johnny Unitas is the greatest QB ever.  He invented and perfected what it means to be a QB.  He was a passer, a thrower, a leader and a true winner that rose above eras, above history, even.  There should be no question as to who the greatest is, and that is Johnny Unitas.

Then probably Montana and Elway in that order.  I might put Elway second because had he Rice to throw to, god only knows how good those teams would have been.

You can stop trying to pimp your FFA All-Time Team now.

Other than our Martz pick (I dont know what we were thinking) that team needs no pimpin'But Johnny U is the greatest QB ever.

Hands down.

 

[jurb26]

Goodness, there is one answer and the rest battle for second. Some folks need to learn themselves some history.

Johnny Unitas is the greatest QB ever. He invented and perfected what it means to be a QB. He was a passer, a thrower, a leader and a true winner that rose above eras, above history, even. There should be no question as to who the greatest is, and that is Johnny Unitas.

Then probably Montana and Elway in that order. I might put Elway second because had he Rice to throw to, god only knows how good those teams would have been.

You can stop trying to pimp your FFA All-Time Team now.

Other than our Martz pick (I dont know what we were thinking) that team needs no pimpin'But Johnny U is the greatest QB ever.

Hands down.

He is as good a choice as any, but saying he is IT hands down simply going too far. I mean seariously, look around. If he was IT hands down then we would not even need this thread....

 

[Cecil Lammey]

1. Johnny U because he revolutionized the position.2. Elway because he carried the Broncos by himself for many years.3. Montana because of his pedigree, leadership ability

 

[SouthJersey]

Randall Cunningham.

The Case for Randall to be a HOFer

 

[Varmint]

Yep, give me the greatest field general of all time. How many mediocre teams did he carry to the Super Bowl?

As noted above: None.

Sure...you bet..Go ahead and rattle off the "supporting cast" he had in his losing Superbowl efforts..

(double points if you don't have to look it up).

 

[CalBear]

Yep, give me the greatest field general of all time. How many mediocre teams did he carry to the Super Bowl?

As noted above: None.

Sure...you bet..Go ahead and rattle off the "supporting cast" he had in his losing Superbowl efforts..

(double points if you don't have to look it up).

1986: Two-time Pro Bowlers Keith Bishop, Rulon Jones, and Sammy Winder, 6-time Pro Bowler Karl Mecklenburg, and 6-time Pro Bowler Dennis Smith.1987: As above, with #9 ranked defense (#7 in points allowed).

1989: #3 overall defense (#1 in points allowed), Mecklenburg, Smith, 3-time Pro Bowler Mark Haynes, and 8-time Pro Bowler Steve Atwater.

 

[bro1ncos]

Yep, give me the greatest field general of all time. How many mediocre teams did he carry to the Super Bowl?

As noted above: None.

Sure...you bet..Go ahead and rattle off the "supporting cast" he had in his losing Superbowl efforts..

(double points if you don't have to look it up).

1986: Two-time Pro Bowlers Keith Bishop, Rulon Jones, and Sammy Winder, 6-time Pro Bowler Karl Mecklenburg, and 6-time Pro Bowler Dennis Smith.1987: As above, with #9 ranked defense (#7 in points allowed).

1989: #3 overall defense (#1 in points allowed), Mecklenburg, Smith, 3-time Pro Bowler Mark Haynes, and 8-time Pro Bowler Steve Atwater.

Out of all those Pro-Bowlers, exactly one is a offensive skill player Winder had exactly one pro-bowl year. Elway never had a pro-bowl WR. While Elway had a pro-bowl 6th round pick as his RB, he had a undrafted WR and another WR that had been cut by 3 other teams. On top of that he had a 7th round TE that was drafted as a WR. I may be biased, but I will take the QB with the most career wins. The 147 Elway has are regular season only.

My top 5 all time (that I have seen play)

Elway

Montana

Marino (greatest passer)

Favre

Brady

Followed closely by Fouts, Young, and Moon.

 

[CalBear]

Out of all those Pro-Bowlers, exactly one is a offensive skill player Winder had exactly one pro-bowl year. Elway never had a pro-bowl WR.

If he were a better QB, he would have had more Pro Bowl WRs. Favre turned Sterling Sharpe, Robert Brooks, Antonio Freeman, Donald Driver, and Javon Walker into Pro Bowlers; none of those guys ever did anything outside of Green Bay.

 

[bro1ncos]

Out of all those Pro-Bowlers, exactly one is a offensive skill player  Winder had exactly one pro-bowl year.  Elway never had a pro-bowl WR.

If he were a better QB, he would have had more Pro Bowl WRs. Favre turned Sterling Sharpe, Robert Brooks, Antonio Freeman, Donald Driver, and Javon Walker into Pro Bowlers; none of those guys ever did anything outside of Green Bay.

Nothing outside of Green Bay is correct. Because out of those you listed only Freeman and Brooks ever played for another team. Freeman played 16 games for Philly and Brooks played 3 games in a Bronco uniform.

 

[Varmint]

Yep, give me the greatest field general of all time. How many mediocre teams did he carry to the Super Bowl?

As noted above: None.

Sure...you bet..Go ahead and rattle off the "supporting cast" he had in his losing Superbowl efforts..

(double points if you don't have to look it up).

1986: Two-time Pro Bowlers Keith Bishop, Rulon Jones, and Sammy Winder, 6-time Pro Bowler Karl Mecklenburg, and 6-time Pro Bowler Dennis Smith.1987: As above, with #9 ranked defense (#7 in points allowed).

1989: #3 overall defense (#1 in points allowed), Mecklenburg, Smith, 3-time Pro Bowler Mark Haynes, and 8-time Pro Bowler Steve Atwater.

1986.....Keith Bishop (LG)Rulon Jones (DE)

Sammy Winder (RB) 240 att for 789 yds

#5 RB on the Pro-Bowl Roster behind M. Allen

G. Bell

E. Jackson

F. Mcniel

Karl Mecklenburg LILB

Dennis Smith (DB)

Denver's TEAM DEFENSE was ranked #21

Denver's TEAM OFFENSE was ranked #17

Three Defensive players....one Offensive Lineman and a RB who rushed for a whopping 789 yds.

Eric Dickerson rushed for 1821 the same year. J. Morris (1516), C. Warner (1481), R. Mayes (1353), W. Payton (1333), G. Riggs (1327), G. Rogers (1203), J. Brooks (1087), E. Jackson (910), J. Jones (903)

Winder wasn't even in the top 10 rushing leaders and rushed for only 9 TD's all year.. HOWEVER...he rec'd for 171 yds and 5 TD's. I"m GUESSING that Elway threw those TD's.

All in all, pretty sorry stats for a "PRO-BOWLER". Wouldn't you say?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

1987... Keith Bishop (LG)

J. Elway (QB)

Karl Mecklenburg LILB

Noteable Players Included:

K. Bishop (LG)

T. Braxton (DB)

M. Brooks (LB)

M. Haynes (DB)

R. Jones (DE)

C. Kragen (DE)

K. Mecklenburg (LB)

ALL DEFENSE

Elway's run support??

S. Winder.....196 rushes for 741 yds....6 rushing TD's....1 rec.

C. White rushed for 1374 the same year. E. Dickerson (1288), C. Warner (985), M. Rozier (957), R. Mayes (917), H. Walker (891), G. Riggs (875), R. Craig (815), S. Mitchell (781), M. Allen (754)

Basically, J. Elway and two Defensive players...

Denver's TEAM DEFENSE was ranked #9

Denver's TEAM OFFENSE was ranked #2 Just how many of those DEFENSIVE PLAYERS helped with THIS??

1989... G. Kragen (DL)

J. Elway (QB)

K. Mecklenburg (LILB)

D. Smith (DB)

Again...Elway and the Defense.

This year a STUD named Bobby Humphrey took over the running duties...He rushed 294 times for 1151 yds...7 TD's Rushing and 1 receiving.. He finished 8th overall...

Elway NEVER threw to a Pro-Bowl WR until 1995 (A. Miller) yet amassed all those stats.

Give it a rest, you'll NEVER convince anyone that Elway was surrounded by talent on the offensive side of the ball...

 

[JAA]

1998 Steve Young, my first QB ever

 

[Hatchdog33]

The Patriots were worse than the Bengals until Bledsoe was injured and Brady was put in.

Bledsoe is doing fantastic this year. And he wasn't too bad with the Patriots. Brady just added a new dimension to the team and is a PLAYMAKER. Watching him play for a few years, I can say that no one can outdo the man. He has the physical aspect and mental aspect of QBing down, and fights his team out of holes (he's on pace to SHATTER the come from behind victory record).

BTW, he's STILL undefeated in OT. *knock on wood*

I like Brady, so don't misconstrue my statements here, but the Pats were pretty darn good before Brady. They went to a SB (and lost) with Bledsoe at the helm. Brady stepped up and performed well when Bledoe lost his job due to injury, but when Brady went down later, it was Bledsoe that stepped in and played well. People like to conveniently forget that Bledsoe was the one that led that team on the drive that really clinched the SB win. That team had players on it in many positions that stepped up and played well. I don't see mediocre for that team at all.

 

[David Yudkin]

ElwayPro BowlersQB John Elway x 9RB Terrell Davis x 3RB Sammy Winder x 2RB Bobby HumphreyRB Gaston GreenRB Glyn MilburnWR Anthony MillerWR Ed McCaffreyTE Shannon Sharpe x 7OL Keith Bishop x 3OL Gary Zimmerman x 3OL Tom Nalen x 2OL Tony Jones26 seasons not counting ElwayDL Rulon Jones x 3DL Greg Kragen x 2DL Michael Dean PerryDL Alfred Williams DL Neil SmithLB Karl Mecklenburg x 7LB Michael Brooks x 2LB Bill Romanowski x 2LB Randy GradisharDB Steve Atwater x 8DB Dennis Smith x 7DB Louis Wright x 2DB Tyrone Braxton x 2DB Mark Haynes40 seasons1,000+ yards rushing or receivingRB Terrell Davis x 4RB Bobby Humphrey x 2RB Sammy WinderRB Gaston GreenWR Steve Watson x 2WR Anthony Miller x 2WR Rod Smith x 2WR Vance JohnsonWR Ed McCafferyTE Shannon Sharpe x 319 total

 

[IanTucker]

I watched Elway's career...and Montana's. I watched Unitas' career.The answer is Unitas.

 

[Ozymandias]

Young, followed by Unitas.

 

[David Yudkin]

FavrePro BowlersQB Brett Favre x 8RB Ahman Green x 4RB William HendersonRB Travis JerveyRB Dorsey LevensWR Sterling Sharpe x 3WR Antonio FreemanWR Roell PrestonWR Donald DriverWR Javon WalkerTE Mark Chmura x 3TE Bubba Franks x 3TE Keith JacksonOL Frank WintersOL Marco Rivera x 2OL Mike Flanagan25 seasons not counting FavreDL Reggie White x 6DL Bryce PaupDB Chuck CecilDB LeRoy Butler x 4DB Darren Sharper x 214 seasons1,000+ yards rushing or receivingRB Ahman Green x 5RB Dorsey Levens x 2RB Edgar BennettWR Sterling Sharpe x 3WR Antonio Freeman x 3WR Robert Brooks x 2WR Donald Driver x 2WR Bill SchroederWR Javon Walker20 total

 

[Koya]

Goodness, there is one answer and the rest battle for second.  Some folks need to learn themselves some history.

Johnny Unitas is the greatest QB ever.  He invented and perfected what it means to be a QB.  He was a passer, a thrower, a leader and a true winner that rose above eras, above history, even.  There should be no question as to who the greatest is, and that is Johnny Unitas.

Then probably Montana and Elway in that order.  I might put Elway second because had he Rice to throw to, god only knows how good those teams would have been.

You can stop trying to pimp your FFA All-Time Team now.

Other than our Martz pick (I dont know what we were thinking) that team needs no pimpin'But Johnny U is the greatest QB ever.

Hands down.

He is as good a choice as any, but saying he is IT hands down simply going too far. I mean seariously, look around. If he was IT hands down then we would not even need this thread....

We shouldnt need this thread.

 

[Koya]

I watched Elway's career...and Montana's. I watched Unitas' career.

The answer is Unitas.

I wish I watched the true Genius that was Unitas. All I have are the films and the lore and the history... and so many seem to forget so soon. So many more don't even know.

 

[resavoirdog]

Well Statistically it is Dan "The Man" Marino by a land-slide.

Winning and leadership wise it is Joe Montana, also by a good magin (but Brady is closing on him).

I feel honored to have watched and appreciated both of these entire careers form Start to Finish.

While Brady and Manning at their current pace have great potential to make a case some day, nobody else should really be considered at this point.

Roger Staubach but I'm biased. I think anyone that gave up some of his prime years to serve his country gets padded stats in this vote. I guess if patriotism is factored in.

 

[Hatchdog33]

The Patriots were worse than the Bengals until Bledsoe was injured and Brady was put in.

Bledsoe is doing fantastic this year. And he wasn't too bad with the Patriots. Brady just added a new dimension to the team and is a PLAYMAKER. Watching him play for a few years, I can say that no one can outdo the man. He has the physical aspect and mental aspect of QBing down, and fights his team out of holes (he's on pace to SHATTER the come from behind victory record).

BTW, he's STILL undefeated in OT. *knock on wood*

I like Brady, so don't misconstrue my statements here, but the Pats were pretty darn good before Brady. They went to a SB (and lost) with Bledsoe at the helm. Brady stepped up and performed well when Bledoe lost his job due to injury, but when Brady went down later, it was Bledsoe that stepped in and played well. People like to conveniently forget that Bledsoe was the one that led that team on the drive that really clinched the SB win. That team had players on it in many positions that stepped up and played well. I don't see mediocre for that team at all.

Slow down here pahtnah. If you want to quote facts, let's make sure they're correct. The Pats couldn't be considered a good team, IMO. I was there, watching the 8-8 1999 season and the dreadful 5-11 2000 season. The opener is 2001 was dreadful. They lost to Cincy, where Bledsoe brought them inside the 10 in the last couple minutes and got sacked a couple times and threw away the game. They lost the Jets game to go 0-2, then Brady goes 14-3 over the rest of the year to win the Superbowl. Bledsoe came in during the AFC championship, not the SuperBowl. He started around the Steelers 30, went 3-3 on pure adrenaline to score that TD. Then went 7-18 the rest of the game and scared the living hell out of all of us, as he always did those last couple years. Good enough to lose close, that's what he always was. Hell of a warrior and tough as nails, but just not in the same category as Brady. Not even close !!!

Brady is the type of guy that just wills a team to win, as he did against Pittsburgh and Atlanta this year. I mean 22-27 on Sunday, ridiculous. YOu want him to manage the game, he manages the game. You want him to light it up, he lights it up. He just does whatever he's got to do to win, that's all. The Pats D is quite awful right now, especially against the pass. They have two rookies on the line and a back that looks old. And they're still 3-2 because Brady does whatever he has to do to win. He has never lost in the playoffs, or in OT, or back to back games in three years. I could go on and on, but you guys know the deal. It's hard to appreciate unless you watch him week in and week out.

He is the true definition of a leader and belongs in the same discussions with Joe Cool, Bradshaw, Johnny U, Graham, Staubach etc..... The winners !!!!

 

[Varmint]

Seriously, if ANYONE here puts ANY stock in just WHO gets selected to a Pro-Bowl...

...I'll tell you right now....

....YOU'RE A FOOL

You should be banned from EVER mentioning Pro Football ever again..

You're an embarrassment to top the FBG websiite and should have to wear a mark of shame so that others who come here looking for GOOD information concerning the NFL would know to ignore you... :blackeye:

:11:

 

[biglare66]

ManningBradshawMontanaStaubachFavreI think Terry Bradshaw was very good, but Peyton Manning so far looks to be the best I've ever seen. Eli so far has looked better...

 

[LA Football Fan]

Winners: Starr, Montana, Staubach, Bradshaw, BradyStat Guys: Marino, Elway (those last two Super Bowls were Terell's), Manning (he'll get to both)Both: Unitas, Favre (I'll take either of those two any day)

 

[The Deathstar]

The Patriots were worse than the Bengals until Bledsoe was injured and Brady was put in.

Bledsoe is doing fantastic this year. And he wasn't too bad with the Patriots. Brady just added a new dimension to the team and is a PLAYMAKER. Watching him play for a few years, I can say that no one can outdo the man. He has the physical aspect and mental aspect of QBing down, and fights his team out of holes (he's on pace to SHATTER the come from behind victory record).

BTW, he's STILL undefeated in OT. *knock on wood*

I like Brady, so don't misconstrue my statements here, but the Pats were pretty darn good before Brady. They went to a SB (and lost) with Bledsoe at the helm. Brady stepped up and performed well when Bledoe lost his job due to injury, but when Brady went down later, it was Bledsoe that stepped in and played well. People like to conveniently forget that Bledsoe was the one that led that team on the drive that really clinched the SB win. That team had players on it in many positions that stepped up and played well. I don't see mediocre for that team at all.

Slow down here pahtnah. If you want to quote facts, let's make sure they're correct. The Pats couldn't be considered a good team, IMO. I was there, watching the 8-8 1999 season and the dreadful 5-11 2000 season. The opener is 2001 was dreadful. They lost to Cincy, where Bledsoe brought them inside the 10 in the last couple minutes and got sacked a couple times and threw away the game. They lost the Jets game to go 0-2, then Brady goes 14-3 over the rest of the year to win the Superbowl. Bledsoe came in during the AFC championship, not the SuperBowl. He started around the Steelers 30, went 3-3 on pure adrenaline to score that TD. Then went 7-18 the rest of the game and scared the living hell out of all of us, as he always did those last couple years. Good enough to lose close, that's what he always was. Hell of a warrior and tough as nails, but just not in the same category as Brady. Not even close !!!

Brady is the type of guy that just wills a team to win, as he did against Pittsburgh and Atlanta this year. I mean 22-27 on Sunday, ridiculous. YOu want him to manage the game, he manages the game. You want him to light it up, he lights it up. He just does whatever he's got to do to win, that's all. The Pats D is quite awful right now, especially against the pass. They have two rookies on the line and a back that looks old. And they're still 3-2 because Brady does whatever he has to do to win. He has never lost in the playoffs, or in OT, or back to back games in three years. I could go on and on, but you guys know the deal. It's hard to appreciate unless you watch him week in and week out.

He is the true definition of a leader and belongs in the same discussions with Joe Cool, Bradshaw, Johnny U, Graham, Staubach etc..... The winners !!!!

Bledsoe also threw an INT in that AFC Championship game against Pitt...he led a great comeback for the TD (to David Patten, if memory serves) and then struggled after that. The Patriots, even that year, were challenged offensively. Good defensive and special teams play (punt returns, punt and KO coverage, low penalties) offset a mediocre offense. Remember who was the RB for that team? Antowain Smith.Brady is one of the best QB's I have ever seen play. Do I think his coahing staff has a lot to do with his success? You bet. Charlie Weiss laid out the framework for the offense, Brady executed.

Best all time, though? Nope. Gotta give that to Montana.

 

[Urine_Idiot]

The Patriots were worse than the Bengals until Bledsoe was injured and Brady was put in.

Bledsoe is doing fantastic this year. And he wasn't too bad with the Patriots. Brady just added a new dimension to the team and is a PLAYMAKER. Watching him play for a few years, I can say that no one can outdo the man. He has the physical aspect and mental aspect of QBing down, and fights his team out of holes (he's on pace to SHATTER the come from behind victory record).

BTW, he's STILL undefeated in OT. *knock on wood*

I like Brady, so don't misconstrue my statements here, but the Pats were pretty darn good before Brady. They went to a SB (and lost) with Bledsoe at the helm. Brady stepped up and performed well when Bledoe lost his job due to injury, but when Brady went down later, it was Bledsoe that stepped in and played well. People like to conveniently forget that Bledsoe was the one that led that team on the drive that really clinched the SB win. That team had players on it in many positions that stepped up and played well. I don't see mediocre for that team at all.

Slow down here pahtnah. If you want to quote facts, let's make sure they're correct. The Pats couldn't be considered a good team, IMO. I was there, watching the 8-8 1999 season and the dreadful 5-11 2000 season. The opener is 2001 was dreadful. They lost to Cincy, where Bledsoe brought them inside the 10 in the last couple minutes and got sacked a couple times and threw away the game. They lost the Jets game to go 0-2, then Brady goes 14-3 over the rest of the year to win the Superbowl. Bledsoe came in during the AFC championship, not the SuperBowl. He started around the Steelers 30, went 3-3 on pure adrenaline to score that TD. Then went 7-18 the rest of the game and scared the living hell out of all of us, as he always did those last couple years. Good enough to lose close, that's what he always was. Hell of a warrior and tough as nails, but just not in the same category as Brady. Not even close !!!

Brady is the type of guy that just wills a team to win, as he did against Pittsburgh and Atlanta this year. I mean 22-27 on Sunday, ridiculous. YOu want him to manage the game, he manages the game. You want him to light it up, he lights it up. He just does whatever he's got to do to win, that's all. The Pats D is quite awful right now, especially against the pass. They have two rookies on the line and a back that looks old. And they're still 3-2 because Brady does whatever he has to do to win. He has never lost in the playoffs, or in OT, or back to back games in three years. I could go on and on, but you guys know the deal. It's hard to appreciate unless you watch him week in and week out.

He is the true definition of a leader and belongs in the same discussions with Joe Cool, Bradshaw, Johnny U, Graham, Staubach etc..... The winners !!!!

Bledsoe also threw an INT in that AFC Championship game against Pitt...he led a great comeback for the TD (to David Patten, if memory serves) and then struggled after that. The Patriots, even that year, were challenged offensively. Good defensive and special teams play (punt returns, punt and KO coverage, low penalties) offset a mediocre offense. Remember who was the RB for that team? Antowain Smith.Brady is one of the best QB's I have ever seen play. Do I think his coahing staff has a lot to do with his success? You bet. Charlie Weiss laid out the framework for the offense, Brady executed.

Best all time, though? Nope. Gotta give that to Montana.

how about if Brady's stats continue at the current pace and he brings another title/SB MVP to his credit over the next 10 years. And he contiues to pile on games to his overtime resume and drives to win the game.... personally I don't think you can factor in the Mannings/Bradys/Farves....until they are retired. Sure it makes for great conversation which is a benefit to the site but totally useless. On one side of the coin what if Manning or Brady were to (knock on wood) have a tremendous injury and end their careers now? or on the flip side, what if Farve stuck in the game for 6 more years and won 3 superbowls??? or Bledsoe and the Boys win 3 of the next four or Rothlesiberger for that matter?? it skews the entire picture. you need to define the here and now of this debate in order to be able to set your yardsticks up...

 

[Dancing Bear]

I am sorry, but the only logical answer to this question is :

Otto Graham, Cleveland Browns

He led his team to 10 Championship appearances in a row. He led them to 4 Championship wins in the AAFC and 2 Championship wins in the NFL. No one else is even close!

No one else comes close to leading his team to the opportunity to win the big game, and then following through by leading them to victory.

 

[JAMMIN]

The only answer is the punky QB. Jim Mcmahon

 

[SSOG]

Brady.

Favre is a laughable choice.

The fact that you think Brady is a legit choice and Favre is laughable is, to me, in itself laughable.Seriously, if you like statistics, he's got them. He's top 3 in every statistic that matters. If you like wins, he's got them, currently second all time. If you like championships, he's got them, with 2 appearances and 1 victory. If you like league MVPs, he's got more of them than anyone else in history. If you like longevity, his consecutive starts streak is something like TWICE as long as the second longest QB streak (which Manning just got last week, I think, passing up Ron Jaworski).

Well Statistically it is Dan "The Man" Marino by a land-slide.

Winning and leadership wise it is Joe Montana, also by a good magin (but Brady is closing on him).

I feel honored to have watched and appreciated both of these entire careers form Start to Finish.

While Brady and Manning at their current pace have great potential to make a case some day, nobody else should really be considered at this point.

Disagreed. Elway was a better winner and a better leader than Montana. NFL record for 4th quarter comebacks. NFL record for wins. NFL record for SB appearances. NFL record for conference championship record. Montana got more SB rings, but he had better teams, too. Elway made 3 superbowls with a good but not great team that had no business being there. When he finally got the talent around him, he won back-to-back.

Any list must include Elway. Even discounting the Terrell Davis years where he won his rings, Elway took a team of nobodies to the Super Bowl three times. Seriously, name the running backs and receivers on those teams? Those Denver teams would have been 6-10 at best with an average QB. And before you claim bias, I'll tell you that I've been a Raider fan for 30 years.

Elway is the most overrated QB of all time. His career playoff stats are 54% completions, 27 TD 21 INT. In Super Bowls he only completed 50% of his passes with 3 TDs and 8 INTs. 10 years into his career he had 55% completions and as many INTs as TDs. His Broncos passing records are all being beaten by Jake freakin' Plummer. Denver had 6 Pro Bowlers in 1986, and the Denver defense was top-10 in 1987 and top-5 in 1989 (#1 in points allowed). That covers the Super Bowl losses. In the Super Bowl wins, Denver had a top defense and a 2000-total-yard RB. They won in 1997 despite his poor play, and then a team with 8 Pro Bowlers, a 2000-yard rusher and two 1000-yard receivers managed to repeat.

I've already responded to your insane "Elway is overrated" stuff once, so I'll just copy/paste it over rather than re-typing it all.John Elway never had the stats of a Dan Marino, but he almost single-handedly willed his teams to those 3 superbowls.

Do you know how many pro bowlers were in Denver in the 4-year span where they went to 3 SBs? An average of 3.25 a season. Do you know how many pro bowlers were in Cleveland, the team they beat 3 times to get to the Superbowl? 4.25. The San Francisco 49ers from '83 to '90? 5.5. How about the Buffalo Bills during their 4 year, 4 SB span? 9.25. So Buffalo sent on average nearly THREE TIMES as many players to the pro bowl, and yet Denver still accomplished 3 SBs in 4 years to Buffalo's 4 SBs in 4 years.

Denver just had so much less talent than the other dominant teams of their era, but they still managed to compete. Don't give me this "New England Patriots don't have loads of pro bowlers" stuff, either, because that's under the salary cap. Things are different now.

Let's put this into a different perspective. Elway came into the league in 1983. In his first 10 seasons in the league, do you now how many times a Denver offensive player (other than Elway) made it to the pro bowl? Seven, including ZERO WRs. To compare, 16 times did one of Montana's offensive teammates make the pro bowl in his first 10 seasons, including 8 appearances by WRs. Jim Kelly? 29 times, including a staggering 15 appearances by a Buffalo WR (meaning Kelly averaged 1.5 pro bowl WRs a season for his first 10 seasons). Dan Marino? 25 times, 8 times by WRs.

It wasn't until Elway's 13th season that he finally played with a pro bowl caliber WR... and yet he still wound up 2nd all time in passing yards and first all time in victories (almost a third of which were come-from-behind victories). Elway played with extremely little surrounding talent, and he was still electric. And when Elway finally got the talent around him that all those other guys had all along, everyone starts badmouthing his accomplishments, saying he was nothing more than a "caretaker".

I'll tell you what. In 1996, 1997, and 1998, Denver sent 4, 4, and 6 offensive players to the pro bowl (including Elway, all 3 seasons- so he was a pretty gosh darn good caretaker, huh? I mean, Dilfer never went to the pro bowl, did he?)- and their offense finished 4th and 1st, 1st and 1st, and 2nd and 3rd in pts and yds (respectively) during those 3 seasons. They also set the NFL record for most wins in a 3-season span. Again, pretty darn good for a caretaker, if you ask me.

Yep, give me the greatest field general of all time. How many mediocre teams did he carry to the Super Bowl?

As noted above: None.

As noted above: 3.

Elway

Pro Bowlers...

26 seasons not counting Elway

defense...

40 seasons

1,000+ yards rushing or receiving...

19 total

Elway's career really has to be broken down into 2 distinct parts. There's the 12 seasons before Shanahan, and the 4 Shanahan seasons.In the 12 seasons pre-Shanahan, Elway had 10 offensive and 24 defensive teammates make the Pro Bowl. That's fewer than 1 a year on offense, and 2 a year on defense. During that 12 year span, he made the SB 3 times (One out of every 4 seasons). He also made the conference championship 4 times (one out of every 3 seasons).

In the 4 seasons under Shanahan, Elway had 15 offensive and 9 defensive teammates make the Pro Bowl. That's an average of almost 4 a year on offense, and just over 2 a year on defense. And the result of those 4 seasons? 2 SBs, 2 SB victories, and the most wins during a 3-season span of any team in NFL history.

So, when Elway was surrounded by virtually NO offensive talent, he made the SB once ever 4 seasons, and the conference championship once ever 3 seasons. And when he finally got surrounded by offensive help, Denver's offense finished on average 4th in yards and 2nd in points in the NFL, and he got 2 SB championships in 4 years.

It should be noted that the 6 pro bowlers a season that Denver had during the 4 Shanny/Elway years is actually very close to what Montana had around him during the SF dynasty (5.5 a season), and is actually LESS than Buffalo had on their team when losing 4 straight. So give Elway as much talent as Montana had and he'll do more with it.

Favre

Pro Bowlers...

25 seasons not counting Favre

defense...

14 seasons

1,000+ yards rushing or receiving...

20 total

What I take away from this is that Favre had similar talent to Elway surrounding him, and Elway made 5 SBs (winning 2) while Favre only made 2 (winning 1).

Winners: Starr, Montana, Staubach, Bradshaw, Brady

Stat Guys: Marino, Elway (those last two Super Bowls were Terell's), Manning (he'll get to both)

Both: Unitas, Favre (I'll take either of those two any day)

John Elway is the winningest QB in NFL history. He holds the record for most SB appearances, he holds the record for most conference championship appearances. And you don't consider him a "winner"? Am I missing something, here?

 

[Tough As Nails]

Winners: Starr, Montana, Staubach, Bradshaw, BradyStat Guys: Marino, Elway (those last two Super Bowls were Terell's), Manning (he'll get to both)

Both: Unitas, Favre (I'll take either of those two any day)

John Elway is the winningest QB in NFL history. He holds the record for most SB appearances, he holds the record for most conference championship appearances. And you don't consider him a "winner"? Am I missing something, here?

You're not missing anything. People try to take away Elway's Super Bowl wins because he had Terrell Davis. But when you talk about Favre with Ahman Green, Manning with Edgerrin James, etc...they have some lame excuse how it wasn't the QBs fault. The QB gets credit for the wins, takes the blame for the losses. Elway got it done when he had the talent. Trying to minimize it is ridiculous.

 

[Timberlend]

My league is bult up with a large number of Packer Fans and they all insist that Brett Favre is the Greatest QB of All-Time. Personally, I think Dan Marino would be my pick as the greatest. What say you as the greatest of all time?

Thanks

Joe Montana baby!

All are measured by this great one!

 

[Tough As Nails]

If we're simply debating Elway vs. Favre, I'll take Elway every time. Yup, some of Favre's stats are better, percentage wise. But I'll also argue that Favre's supporting cast on offense was significantly better than Elway's. For most of his career, Elway's supporting cast on offense was Shannon Sharpe and a bunch of journeymen.

Oh, and if you want to argue that taking supporting cast into account isn't fair, then I'll simply point to Elway's 2 Super Bowl rings to Favre's 1, and Elway's 5 conference championships to Favre's 2.

What supporting cast has Favre had? Elway had a league MVP running back--the only MVP Green Bay has had is Favre himself. Green Bay has never had more than six Pro Bowlers since Favre arrived; the Broncos had six once, eight once, and nine once during Elway's time. The only potential HoF player who overlapped with Favre was Reggie White.

Favre had an 1800 yard/20 TD running back and couldn't get the job done. When Elway had that, he took advantage.

Yeah, Favre should have been playing DB on fourth and 25.

Wow...I responded to the other post before even reading this one. Thanks for making my point. You cannot diminish Elway's Super Bowl wins because of Terrell Davis and then just pawn off the seasons Ahman Green had on lame excuses. Favre should not have let his team be in a position to lose there. And are you forgetting that the game went into overtime and Favre threw the deciding interception? He has had the talent to win many times and not got the job done as well enough to be considered the greatest ever. 11-9 in the post-season. Top 10, for sure. Not #1. No way.

 

[CalBear]

Wow...I responded to the other post before even reading this one. Thanks for making my point. You cannot diminish Elway's Super Bowl wins because of Terrell Davis and then just pawn off the seasons Ahman Green had on lame excuses. Favre should not have let his team be in a position to lose there. And are you forgetting that the game went into overtime and Favre threw the deciding interception? He has had the talent to win many times and not got the job done as well enough to be considered the greatest ever. 11-9 in the post-season. Top 10, for sure. Not #1. No way.

I wouldn't put Favre at #1, but I would certainly put him ahead of Elway. Elway was a compiler who got lucky when his team became dominant near the end of his career. If Favre plays 20 more games to match Elway, he'll likely be ahead of Elway in all those statistical categories, including wins; do you think 20 more late-career games really make that much impact on the value of their respective careers?

 

[valhallan]

Let's not forget Montana got to be the first to play in an offense that is now copied throughout the league..

 

[Dancing Bear]

I want to know why folks are so closed minded about history and about acknowledging the past.

Read a little, expand your minds. The past was filled with many great players who dominated their peers and without question should be mentioned and considered here.

Otto Graham and Johnny Unitas are superior to any of the QB's from the last 20 years. This includes Joe Montana, Tom Brady, Terry Bradshaw and John Elway.

Otto Graham in particular led his team to 10 Championships in a row!

He won 6 out of 10 of these!!!!!

That means that he has won twice as many Championships as any other QB in history.

Please do not discredit Otto Graham or the Cleveland Browns because they did not play in the NFL; the AAFC was every bit as competitive as the NFL. The Browns were every bit as good as any of the rest of the teams in the NFL, and they proved this by making it to the Championship game in the first year that they entered the league. Following that up with 3 more trips to the Championship game and winning two in a row [years 3 and 4 of their entry into the NFL].

Otto Graham is the Greatest QB of All-Time!

 

[dgreen]

That means that he has won twice as many Championships as any other QB in history.

Starr won 5. Montana and Bradshaw each 4.

 

[Dancing Bear]

Sorry, I meant to say :"played in"I guess I got to spirited and did not check it.

 

[dgreen]

Sorry, I meant to say :

"played in"

I guess I got to spirited and did not check it.

Okay.Starr played in 6.

Baugh played in 6.

The NY Giants played in a bunch of championship games, but I'm not sure who the QB was in the 30s and 40s.

 

[PoppaPump]

Even as a Chicago homer - I'm going with Favre. The guy is a awesome. He should have played for Chicago.He is the total package - leadership, athletic ablility, and durability.

 

[Dancing Bear]

Incidentally, I appreciate you mentioning Starr and Baugh. I left them out of my previous post because I feel that Unitas and Graham are superior to them. I do however believe that both Starr and Baugh are also better than the group of QB's I mentioned from the last 20+ years.

 

[B-Deep]

Someone I forgot off my list - Warren Moon.

Some stats to compare:

Marino - 61,361 yards, 420 touchdowns

Moon - 70,533 yards, 377 touchdowns in the NFL & CFL combined

over 70,000 yards... wow.

this is scewed because there are extra yards in the CFL field

 

[Sweeper]

Denver's TEAM DEFENSE was ranked #9

Denver's TEAM OFFENSE was ranked #2 Just how many of those DEFENSIVE PLAYERS helped with THIS??

Do you have doubts about how a dominating Defense creates opportunities for an offense?

So if the D was ranked .... lets say 20th in the league ... do you think the offence would have been just as productive?

 

[wharf rat]

Ken O'Brien

 

[HateDaBears]

Gotta say Montana. Brady is closing in.

 

[Warsteinner]

i say its a toss up at the moment between manning and marino. manning has played long enough to list him with the best. he can drop off the list or he can solidify his number one position. but he is in the top 5 all time.

Have you seen Manning play in the playoffs?

 

[Dog]

Are we talking about a guy with the best career stats or the guy you'd want to have in the playoffs at the top of his game? If it's the latter, I think I'd have to go with Steve Young. One of the most accurate QBs ever, great runner, great leader.