Greatest QB Season Ever (1 Viewer)

[switz]

Found this article: here

It makes some interesting points, and I just wondered what the perception is right now in regards to these three.

Some points in Marino's favor:

- DBs could maul receivers with old rules in place

- Demolished old record by 12

- Threw for more yards than both Manning and Brady did during their record breaking seasons

- youngest to break the TD record

- fewest sacks (tied with Manning)

Points in Manning's favor:

- had the highest QB rating (121.1)

- had the fewest attempts of the three (by nearly 100)

- fewest sacks (tied with Marino)

- broke record in fewer games

Points in Brady's favor:

- fewest INTs

- most wins

Seasons prorated by highest attempts to break record (578 Tom Brady 2007):

Marino would have (based upon completion 64.2%):

5,210 yards, 49 TDs, 17 INTs

Manning would have (based upon completion 67.6%):

5302 yards, 57 TDs, 11 INTs

Brady had:

4806 yards, 50 TDs, 8 INTs

Interestingly, given all an equal number of attempts, based on their individual completion %, Manning obliterates the other QBs numbers. Arguably, Marino had the worst WRs of the three, and Brady the best. Brady threw the least picks and won the most games. Marino took his tam to the Super Bowl that season.

Lots of things to consider...

 

[switz]

wow, 21 views and only 4 votes...

For the record I'm not voting...

 

[TxBuckeye]

Was this from Mike and Mike this morning? They were talking about the 25 greatest moments in sports history or something like that. Wonder if this is an offshoot? Brady' season was ranked 7th I think in that. And that included all sports not just football.

 

[switz]

Just looking over the game log, I find it interesting Brady had FORTY TWO attempts in his last game to tie, then break the record. Manning had 1 attempt the last game of '04.

Didn't look at Marino, he'd broken the record long before the last game of his '84 season.

 

[switz]

Was this from Mike and Mike this morning? They were talking about the 25 greatest moments in sports history or something like that. Wonder if this is an offshoot? Brady' season was ranked 7th I think in that. And that included all sports not just football.

Say it on ESPN, top-10 greatest football seasons. Marino and Dickerson were #1 and #2., Rice, Manning, Brady, LT(2), Lester Hayes, Simspon also made the list. Marino was #1 in the article. Manning and Brady were next to one another about middle of the pack.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

It's Brady hands down.

16-0 as well as the TD / Interception ratio of 6.25:1 says it all.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I think this would be more interesting to include the postseason in the mix. Manning and Marino would both be out, and Kurt Warner's '99 season would probably be the best right now, depending on if the Patriots win the Super Bowl early next month. If they do, Brady gets the nod.

 

[switz]

It's Brady hands down.16-0 as well as the TD / Interception ratio of 6.25:1 says it all.

Yeah, wins are what matter. Marino threw over 2x as many INTs.I always thought Marino was a product of his system, and that he held the Dolphins back as they depended on him too much.

 

[switz]

I think this would be more interesting to include the postseason in the mix. Manning and Marino would both be out, and Kurt Warner's '99 season would probably be the best right now, depending on if the Patriots win the Super Bowl early next month. If they do, Brady gets the nod.

Hard to do that when the post season this year hasn't happened.What if NE doesn't make it to the SB? Would you rank Marino ahead of him?

 

[Itchy Amos]

Luckily all three quarterbacks played a full season, so there is no reason to prorate their numbers.

If TD/pass attempt is the true indicator of greatness, then lets go pour through NFL history to find who that guy is that owns this stat and pin our imaginary "best ever" medal on his chest.

Since we are talking about best season, I would say that if Brady goes on to lead his team to a superbowl victory, I would have to give the edge to him. Afterall, the object of the game is to win the superbowl. If the Patriots dont win, I would say that it would have to be Marino. His 1984 season is akin to what Wilt Chamberlain did the year he averaged 50 ppg or to what Babe Ruth did when he won the home run title by about a margin of 30. He took the records to heights that were leaps and bounds greater than anyone before him. His numbers were so prolific that he made the impossible seem possible.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

Not only did Manning throw only 1 attempt his last game, he was pulled in the early 3rd quarter vs. Detroit that season after having 6 TD passes and could easily have gotten 1 or 2 that quarter and just sat the 4th.

That, and do this day I remember Brady being pulled vs. the first Miami game up a gazillion points. Miami dares to score a 4th quarter TD so they bench the back up QB up 20 or 30 points with less than 10 mins to play for Brady to come back in and throw the ball almost every down to hit Welker for yet another TD to go back up by a gazillion with little time left in the game.

To me, there's very little difference in terms of Brady and Manning's season except for the overall team record the Patriots accomplished.

I guess if they wanted the record of having everything that bad......I'll give the nudge to Brady's season since they went all out in getting it.

 

[obxlegends]

Found this article: here

Interestingly, given all an equal number of attempts, based on their individual completion %, Manning obliterates the other QBs numbers. Arguably, Marino had the worst WRs of the three, and Brady the best. Brady threw the least picks and won the most games. Marino took his tam to the Super Bowl that season.

Lots of things to consider...

You can't play "what if" based on Completion %. Because in the end the lower Completion %'s may have lent to why some QB's didn't achieve more yards and TD's. Among a myriad of other reasons that is. That's not meant to slight Marino or Manning. As you already know Manning also played in 1 less game than Brady.For what it's worth Steve Young's 1994 season ranks among the best in my memory. An amazing 70.3 completion percentage 3969 yards passing. 35 passing TD's and throw in another 7 rushing TD's for good measure. All that on an amazing number of only 461 attempts.

 

[yellowdog]

I say it's a 41 way tie with all Super Bowl winners.

 

[BigJim®]

I'll give Daunte Culpepper circa 2004 an honorable mention here.

5123 Total Yards [4717 pass, 406 rush] which is 600 more than Manning/2004

69.2% completion [548 passing attempts] which is 1.6% higher than Manning/2004

41 total TDs which is 8 less than Manning/2004

11 INTs which is 1 more than Manning/2004, but on 51 more pass attempts

110.9 QB rating which is 10.2% less than Manning/2004

Basically, more yards, better completion %, less TDs, better INTs [PPA], less QB rating.

 

[switz]

Found this article: here

Interestingly, given all an equal number of attempts, based on their individual completion %, Manning obliterates the other QBs numbers. Arguably, Marino had the worst WRs of the three, and Brady the best. Brady threw the least picks and won the most games. Marino took his tam to the Super Bowl that season.

Lots of things to consider...

You can't play "what if" based on Completion %. Because in the end the lower Completion %'s may have lent to why some QB's didn't achieve more yards and TD's. Among a myriad of other reasons that is. That's not meant to slight Marino or Manning. As you already know Manning also played in 1 less game than Brady.For what it's worth Steve Young's 1994 season ranks among the best in my memory. An amazing 70.3 completion percentage 3969 yards passing. 35 passing TD's and throw in another 7 rushing TD's for good measure. All that on an amazing number of only 461 attempts.

FYI, Manning and Brady's completion percentage differed by 0.07%. I hardly think it had anything to do with the number of attempts Manning had.Also, even Young had more attempts than Manning.

 

[switz]

I'll give Daunte Culpepper circa 2004 an honorable mention here.5123 Total Yards [4717 pass, 406 rush] which is 600 more than Manning/200469.2% completion [548 passing attempts] which is 1.6% higher than Manning/200441 total TDs which is 8 less than Manning/200411 INTs which is 1 more than Manning/2004, but on 51 more pass attempts110.9 QB rating which is 10.2% less than Manning/2004Basically, more yards, better completion %, less TDs, better INTs [PPA], less QB rating.

Interestingly, what did Culpepper and Brady have in common?And what were their stats without that commonality?

 

[switz]

Luckily all three quarterbacks played a full season, so there is no reason to prorate their numbers.

If TD/pass attempt is the true indicator of greatness, then lets go pour through NFL history to find who that guy is that owns this stat and pin our imaginary "best ever" medal on his chest.

Since we are talking about best season, I would say that if Brady goes on to lead his team to a superbowl victory, I would have to give the edge to him. Afterall, the object of the game is to win the superbowl. If the Patriots dont win, I would say that it would have to be Marino. His 1984 season is akin to what Wilt Chamberlain did the year he averaged 50 ppg or to what Babe Ruth did when he won the home run title by about a margin of 30. He took the records to heights that were leaps and bounds greater than anyone before him. His numbers were so prolific that he made the impossible seem possible.

Except that's not true.

 

[twitch]

Manning scored 3 points in a playoff game that year. Which imo, despite all the gaudy and brilliant regular season #s, kindof sours the whole thing. If Brady leads his team to 3 points in a playoff game and loses, then I'll consider Manning's season in this discussion. Until then, Ill stay undecided but leaning towards Brady because his team is yet to lose.

 

[BigJim®]

I'll give Daunte Culpepper circa 2004 an honorable mention here.5123 Total Yards [4717 pass, 406 rush] which is 600 more than Manning/200469.2% completion [548 passing attempts] which is 1.6% higher than Manning/200441 total TDs which is 8 less than Manning/200411 INTs which is 1 more than Manning/2004, but on 51 more pass attempts110.9 QB rating which is 10.2% less than Manning/2004Basically, more yards, better completion %, less TDs, better INTs [PPA], less QB rating.

Interestingly, what did Culpepper and Brady have in common?And what were their stats without that commonality?

I agree it is interesting. However, keep in mind Culpepper was without Moss during the middle of that season [5 games?] and Moss was hampered by the hamstring throughout the remainder of that season to varying degrees. He had his lowest receptions/yards at that point in his career [49 rec/757 yards] although he did get 13 TDs in his limited play.Your point is well taken though. I think R.Cunningham and probably Jeff George too had career years throwing to Moss.

 

[Itchy Amos]

Luckily all three quarterbacks played a full season, so there is no reason to prorate their numbers.

If TD/pass attempt is the true indicator of greatness, then lets go pour through NFL history to find who that guy is that owns this stat and pin our imaginary "best ever" medal on his chest.

Since we are talking about best season, I would say that if Brady goes on to lead his team to a superbowl victory, I would have to give the edge to him. Afterall, the object of the game is to win the superbowl. If the Patriots dont win, I would say that it would have to be Marino. His 1984 season is akin to what Wilt Chamberlain did the year he averaged 50 ppg or to what Babe Ruth did when he won the home run title by about a margin of 30. He took the records to heights that were leaps and bounds greater than anyone before him. His numbers were so prolific that he made the impossible seem possible.

Except that's not true.

Semantics. All three quarterbacks played in every regular season game to the full extent that the head coach thought it prudent. I am sure that Manning could have squeezed out a few more TD passes if he never left the game, but who knows, maybe he gets injured in the fourth quarter in one of those blowouts. We will never know. It is one thing to normalize performances to predict future performance, but there is no need to revise history.

 

[Brasco]

Found this article: here

It makes some interesting points, and I just wondered what the perception is right now in regards to these three.

Some points in Marino's favor:

- DBs could maul receivers with old rules in place

- Demolished old record by 12

- Threw for more yards than both Manning and Brady did during their record breaking seasons

- youngest to break the TD record

- fewest sacks (tied with Manning)

Points in Manning's favor:

- had the highest QB rating (121.1)

- had the fewest attempts of the three (by nearly 100)

- fewest sacks (tied with Marino)

- broke record in fewer games

Points in Brady's favor:

- fewest INTs

- most wins

Seasons prorated by highest attempts to break record (578 Tom Brady 2007):

Marino would have (based upon completion 64.2%):

5,210 yards, 49 TDs, 17 INTs

Manning would have (based upon completion 67.6%):

5302 yards, 57 TDs, 11 INTs

Brady had:

4806 yards, 50 TDs, 8 INTs

Interestingly, given all an equal number of attempts, based on their individual completion %, Manning obliterates the other QBs numbers. Arguably, Marino had the worst WRs of the three, and Brady the best. Brady threw the least picks and won the most games. Marino took his tam to the Super Bowl that season.

Lots of things to consider...

Interesting to note, that no one could touch Marino for so long... then all of a sudden the rules get changed before the '04 season and his TD record gets broken twice in 4 yrs.?! For that reason alone, I give Marino the edge...right now. I didn't vote, because NE's season isn't over. But, if NE wins the Super Bowl and Brady continues to play great, he'd be the pick.

The playoffs and Super Bowl are the biggest and most important stages available, so I'd use that as the tiebreaker to decide between 3 great seasons (that are otherwise pretty even). Marino laid an egg in the Super Bowl that year and Peyton laid an egg in the playoffs that year. If NE wins the Super Bowl and Brady plays well, his season gets the nod from me.

 

[Q-Bert]

Looking at adjusted yards per attempt it is Manning 2004 and it's not even close. The difference between the all-time #1 and #2 AY/A is the same as the difference between the #2 and the #8.

 

[TBIST]

Found this article: here

It makes some interesting points, and I just wondered what the perception is right now in regards to these three.

Some points in Marino's favor:

- DBs could maul receivers with old rules in place

- Demolished old record by 12

- Threw for more yards than both Manning and Brady did during their record breaking seasons

- youngest to break the TD record

- fewest sacks (tied with Manning)

Points in Manning's favor:

- had the highest QB rating (121.1)

- had the fewest attempts of the three (by nearly 100)

- fewest sacks (tied with Marino)

- broke record in fewer games

Points in Brady's favor:

- fewest INTs

- most wins

Seasons prorated by highest attempts to break record (578 Tom Brady 2007):

Marino would have (based upon completion 64.2%):

5,210 yards, 49 TDs, 17 INTs

Manning would have (based upon completion 67.6%):

5302 yards, 57 TDs, 11 INTs

Brady had:

4806 yards, 50 TDs, 8 INTs

Interestingly, given all an equal number of attempts, based on their individual completion %, Manning obliterates the other QBs numbers. Arguably, Marino had the worst WRs of the three, and Brady the best. Brady threw the least picks and won the most games. Marino took his tam to the Super Bowl that season.

Lots of things to consider...

Manning and it's not even close. Also what goes in his favors is he wasn't a record whore, Brady was playing in games at the end of the season he had no business playing in.

 

[slayer666]

It's Brady hands down.16-0 as well as the TD / Interception ratio of 6.25:1 says it all.

I voted for Tom Brady. If the Patriots win three more games, then it's not even close.

 

[Shermanator]

I went with Marino. He transcended the game of qb. At a time when you were a great qb if you threw 20 tds, he demolished everything.

Just my opinion, but Marino's record season paved the way for the great offensive football we see today

 

[Mr. Peterson]

Everybody recognizes Brady's season because of the controversy surrounding it. Throwing a TD on 4th down while up 30 points. Peyton didn't do that. Peyton broke the record cause he was trying to win games. Brady broke the record cause he tried to break the record. They made a joke of the NFL.

Peyton is classy.

Brady is trashy.

 

[Morton Muffley]

Let's add this stat to the discussion/analysis:

Post-Thanksgiving Games in Year Record was set:

Brady: 6 games

NE

@Balt

NE

NE

NE

@NYG

Manning: 6

@ Detroit (dome)

Indy (dome)

@ Houston (dome)

Indy (dome)

Indy (dome)

@ Denver

Marino: 4

Miami

Miami

Indy (dome)

Miami

FWIW, I didn't vote, but would probably lean toward Marino as I really do believe it was a different game for WRs back then..the Ints make me hesitant though.

 

[css2373]

A true way to compare players from different eras is to compare their stats of their contemporaries...not against each other...with that said the best season was had by Marino

 

[pats3in4]

Duper and Clayton had sick YPC numbers...they were hardly getting mugged. I think defenses have become much more complex (e.g. zone-blitz) and very wary of WRs going off (e.g. cover-2) since 1984, which is why those YPC numbers are rarely seen anymore. I don't think Dan would have put up those numbers facing the types of defenses prevalent today. I do think Peyton and Brady would have put up their numbers in 1984, though.

Despite Dan's record breaking 1984, I thought his best season was 1986. That edition of the Dolphins was awful. Their defense couldn't stop anyone (gave up over 400pts), their running game was weak (less than 10 TDs on the ground while opponents topped 20 rushing TDs)...Dan was a one-man show, probably the difference between 3-13 and 8-8. Threw for over 4700 yards and 44 TDs. He did throw over 20 picks, but he was chucking it a lot every game, ending up well over 600 attempts on the year. Plus, since he had the record breaking year two seasons prior, everybody knew what they were getting with the Dolphins, yet Marino still delivered.

 

[ninerfanatic492000]

It's Brady hands down.16-0 as well as the TD / Interception ratio of 6.25:1 says it all.

Yeah, wins are what matter. Marino threw over 2x as many INTs.I always thought Marino was a product of his system, and that he held the Dolphins back as they depended on him too much.

He held the dolphins back?WTFproduct of the system what a f*(^ing joke

 

[FUBAR]

Interesting to note, that no one could touch Marino for so long... then all of a sudden the rules get changed before the '04 season and his TD record gets broken twice in 4 yrs.?! For that reason alone, I give Marino the edge...right now.

A true way to compare players from different eras is to compare their stats of their contemporaries...not against each other...with that said the best season was had by Marino

Marino gets my vote for this basic reason. Oh, and WTF is Switz talking about - "Marino is a product of the system"?

 

[GregR_2]

I think it's Marino and it isn't very close. Marino was ahead of his peers by a Gretzky-like amount, and it took another 20 years and plenty of rule changes to favor the offense before anyone came close to those heights again.

Other people may own the record, but it's an easier environment to reach those heights. Not that it's commonplace, but it is not unheard of for a QB to have that kind of season under the current rules and offensive schemes. And I have little doubt that if Marino's season had happened under the current rules, his INTs would have dropped quite a bit and his yards and TDs would have increased even more.

I think Manning should get a lot of credit for doing similarly in a lot less opportunity than either Marino or Brady. And IMHO the best thing about Brady's season never gets mentioned... which is the percentage of drives on which the Pats scored touchdowns. I think that has got to be one of the more amazing accomplishments and it far outstrips the other parts of his season that people point to.

But I also don't think that those points for Manning and Brady overcome how far ahead of the rest of the world, history, and the next couple of decades, that Marino was that year.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

Just looking over the game log, I find it interesting Brady had FORTY TWO attempts in his last game to tie, then break the record. Manning had 1 attempt the last game of '04.Didn't look at Marino, he'd broken the record long before the last game of his '84 season.

IF the Pats go 19-0 there is no debate; if not then it is debatable.

 

[Da Guru]

I would like to see the stat on one. two and three yard TD passes for all three.

It seemed in Mannings and Bradys record year they threw quite a few short TD passes, even on first down when the record was a possiblity. I am talking first and goal from the three or less.

Did Marino do the same?

 

[phthalatemagic]

Manning, without a doubt.

 

[Baby New Year]

I think it's Marino and it isn't very close. Marino was ahead of his peers by a Gretzky-like amount, and it took another 20 years and plenty of rule changes to favor the offense before anyone came close to those heights again.Other people may own the record, but it's an easier environment to reach those heights. Not that it's commonplace, but it is not unheard of for a QB to have that kind of season under the current rules and offensive schemes. And I have little doubt that if Marino's season had happened under the current rules, his INTs would have dropped quite a bit and his yards and TDs would have increased even more.

Yeah, do you think defenses and defensive players have changed any in 20 years?

 

[Pat Patriot]

I think it's Marino and it isn't very close. Marino was ahead of his peers by a Gretzky-like amount, and it took another 20 years and plenty of rule changes to favor the offense before anyone came close to those heights again.

Other people may own the record, but it's an easier environment to reach those heights. Not that it's commonplace, but it is not unheard of for a QB to have that kind of season under the current rules and offensive schemes. And I have little doubt that if Marino's season had happened under the current rules, his INTs would have dropped quite a bit and his yards and TDs would have increased even more.

I think Manning should get a lot of credit for doing similarly in a lot less opportunity than either Marino or Brady. And IMHO the best thing about Brady's season never gets mentioned... which is the percentage of drives on which the Pats scored touchdowns. I think that has got to be one of the more amazing accomplishments and it far outstrips the other parts of his season that people point to.

But I also don't think that those points for Manning and Brady overcome how far ahead of the rest of the world, history, and the next couple of decades, that Marino was that year.

I think you are on to something here. There are rules that help the passing game now but they also put in a rule to speed up the game. This results in less possessions per game for a team. I would be interested in comparing how many possessions for the year the Dolphins had in 1984 compared to the Colts in 2004 and Pats in 2007.And lets put the other point to rest, all 3 QB's played a 16 game schedule. I'd bet that Brady spent more time on the bench during blowouts this year than Manning did in 2004. Is Switz going to give me a TD's per minute played stat next?

 

[Baby New Year]

[And lets put the other point to rest, all 3 QB's played a 16 game schedule. I'd bet that Brady spent more time on the bench during blowouts this year than Manning did in 2004. Is Switz going to give me a TD's per minute played stat next?

Think a guy on the Pats board came up with that, and Manning played 20 more minutes. Although, I can't remember if he posted this before or after the last game. Probably before the Giants game, now that I think about it. Thing I don't understand is why the haters seem so fixated on 15 games --- outside of the obvious trolling Pats fans, that is.

 

[pizzatyme]

Jeebus, here we go again.

In other news, I think Brady is the most physically fit of the 3, by a lot!

The dude is a workout beast!!!

 

[Pat Patriot]

Jeebus, here we go again. In other news, I think Brady is the most physically fit of the 3, by a lot!The dude is a workout beast!!!

From what I can see it is only yourself and Switz that keep this debate going by insisting that your beloved Peyton played less games than Tom Brady in his record breaking season when EVERY stat service recognizes that both QB's played 16 games in their record breaking season. Why is that?So when Manning breaks Favre's record for most consecutive games played shoud that record have an asterick because he didnt play a full game in week 17 of 2004?

 

[pizzatyme]

Jeebus, here we go again. In other news, I think Brady is the most physically fit of the 3, by a lot!The dude is a workout beast!!!

From what I can see it is only yourself and Switz that keep this debate going by insisting that your beloved Peyton played less games than Tom Brady in his record breaking season when EVERY stat service recognizes that both QB's played 16 games in their record breaking season. Why is that?So when Manning breaks Favre's record for most consecutive games played shoud that record have an asterick because he didnt play a full game in week 17 of 2004?

You may not have noticed, but I let that thread hit the skids. I asked a question, it was answered by the posters.You harbor much hatred young grasshoppa.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I think this would be more interesting to include the postseason in the mix. Manning and Marino would both be out, and Kurt Warner's '99 season would probably be the best right now, depending on if the Patriots win the Super Bowl early next month. If they do, Brady gets the nod.

Hard to do that when the post season this year hasn't happened.What if NE doesn't make it to the SB? Would you rank Marino ahead of him?

Hard to say; I think it goes without saying that passing numbers in general are higher than they used to be, and with the way the games are called now, with defensive players not being able to be as physical as they were able to in years past, it makes it a tad easier to accumulate very high passing numbers. And by no means am I meaning to denigrate Brady's awesome season in any way, so do not spaz out, Patriots fans.

From what I can see it is only yourself and Switz that keep this debate going by insisting that your beloved Peyton played less games than Tom Brady in his record breaking season when EVERY stat service recognizes that both QB's played 16 games in their record breaking season. Why is that?

Because while Manning technically played in week 17, he only played in ONE SERIES. How is it that some of you keep missing that point?

 

[Two Deep]

2000 season 2001 Superbowl Trent Dilfer leading the Ravens to the promised land and Superbowl victory. Man that guy was good!

 

[H.K.]

A true way to compare players from different eras is to compare their stats of their contemporaries...not against each other...with that said the best season was had by Marino

Actually, that argument hurts him.

 

[H.K.]

Points in Manning's favor:

- had the fewest attempts of the three (by nearly 100)

The answer is above. Quality trumps quantity when it comes to discussion of the elite. Marino's numbers were always a product of sheer volume of attempts, he doesn't belong in GOAT discussions any more than Dan Fouts does, but at least Brady broke the record while achieving a perfect season. Manning's numbers were achieved by great passing, not by passing a great number of times.

 

[Bri]

Brady IMO. I couldn't help but feel like the game was easy for him this year. Only the best of the best make it seem that way in sports. If the games were closer he might have had to throw more but I think if the games were closer it wouldn't have seemed so easy so....

I do feel confident saying no 2nd year QB will ever do what Marino did

 

[pollardsvision]

to me, it's obviously marino (although i know it's not obvious to everyone else)

the rules change is a big factor.

beating the record by 12 is a big factor.

marino was a gunslinger and the greatest pure passer the game has ever seen. he was flinging it to undersized WRs getting mauled by DBs with absolutely no threat of a running game.

manning and brady are great and i'll have no beef when they go down as the 2 greatest QBs ever, but:

when manning broke the record, i felt like he had an inordinate amount of sub-5 yard TDs that should've just been edge's.

you can't take anything away from brady's year, but i highly doubt the #s would've been so gaudy throwing to duper and clayton with defenders mauling them. on many of his deep bombs to moss, my thought was rarely "wow, what a great throw" and much more often "wow, what a catch by moss". on a number of occasions, moss clearly bailed brady out on an unspectacular ball.

this is all highly subjective (i can't find #s to support it), but i picture a larger portion of marino's '84 production involving marino dropping back and firing an expertly placed pass into the right spot down the field.

i also factor in that that marino finished the season with 16 TDs over his final 4 games, with 3 4-TD games after he'd tied the record, while brady and manning limped into the record.

 

[Doug Drinen]

I think it's Marino and it isn't very close. Marino was ahead of his peers by a Gretzky-like amount, and it took another 20 years and plenty of rule changes to favor the offense before anyone came close to those heights again.

I'm not so sure.Yearly NFL passing stats

YPA	TD%   INT%1984	  6.4	4.3	4.12004	  6.6	4.5	3.21007	  6.4	4.2	3.1

Yards and TDs were, on a pass-by-pass basis, roughly equally prevalent in all three season. Marino can be cut a bit of slack on the higher INT total.

 

[phthalatemagic]

I think this would be more interesting to include the postseason in the mix. Manning and Marino would both be out, and Kurt Warner's '99 season would probably be the best right now, depending on if the Patriots win the Super Bowl early next month. If they do, Brady gets the nod.

Hard to do that when the post season this year hasn't happened.What if NE doesn't make it to the SB? Would you rank Marino ahead of him?

Hard to say; I think it goes without saying that passing numbers in general are higher than they used to be, and with the way the games are called now, with defensive players not being able to be as physical as they were able to in years past, it makes it a tad easier to accumulate very high passing numbers. And by no means am I meaning to denigrate Brady's awesome season in any way, so do not spaz out, Patriots fans.

From what I can see it is only yourself and Switz that keep this debate going by insisting that your beloved Peyton played less games than Tom Brady in his record breaking season when EVERY stat service recognizes that both QB's played 16 games in their record breaking season. Why is that?

Because while Manning technically played in week 17, he only played in ONE SERIES. How is it that some of you keep missing that point?

 

[Doug Drinen]

As long as we're splitting hairs, Manning and Marino were each sacked 13 times, while Brady took 21 sacks.