Greatest single season for a QB ever (1 Viewer)

[Chase Stuart]

Obviously limited by space here, but feel free to write in any others. I'll leave the analysis to you guys but just note a blurb or two about each candidate:

-- 1943 Sid Luckman: set still standing single-season records for yards per pass (10.9), adjusted yards per pass (11.0), touchdown percentage (13.9), yards per completion (19.9) during a championship season for the Bears. Against the rival Redskins (and Sammy Baugh) in the NFL title game, Luckman put on perhaps the greatest title game performance in league history, going 15/26 for 286 yards with 5 TDs and 0 INTs, while chipping in with two interceptions as a defensive back.

-- 1953 Otto Graham: led league in completion percentage, passing yards, interception rate, yards per attempt and quarterback rating while winning NFL MVP honors from the UPI. Set the second highest mark for Y/A in a season.

-- 1959 Johnny Unitas: while '58 contained his most memorable performance and '64 was his best regular season, Unitas put it all together in '59. On top of a fantastic championship game performance --- 18/29, 264 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, 1 rushing TD -- Unitas led the league in the regular season in passing yards and passing touchdowns while winning the AP, UPI and Bert Bell MVP awards. The Colts scored 21+ points in every game, and scored 28, 45, 35, 34, 45 and 31 on the six-game winning streak to end the season.

-- 1966 Bart Starr: En route to AP, UPI and NEA MVP honors, Starr led the Packers to an 11-2 record while leading the league in completion percentage, yards per attempt, interception rate and quarterback rating. Starr posted an incredible 9.6 AY/A with a 14/3 TD/INT ratio while averaging 9.0 Y/A; he then went 19/28 for 304 yards and 4 TDs with 0 INTs, as the Packers went into the Cotton Bowl and defeated the Cowboys 34-27 to win the title. To top things off, he earned the first SB MVP award and his 16/23, 250, 2/1 performance against the Chiefs made Green Bay the first SB champs.

-- 1971 Roger Staubach: in limited action, Staubach showed us what he would become in a 1971 season that saw him go 13-0 as starter and end in a SB victory. Staubach threw 15 TDs and just 4 INTs on 211 passes, and posted historically outstanding rate numbers in the deadest of dead ball eras: 8.9 Y/A, 104.8 QBR, 9.5 AY/A and 7.8 ANY/A, while also rushing for 343 yards and 2 TDs. Went 12/19 for 119 yards and 2 TDs and 0 INTs as the Cowboys shed their "Next Year's Champs" label and won their first championship.

-- 1976 Ken Stabler: Raiders went 11-1 and won their first SB as Stabler led the league in completion percentage, TDs, TD rate, long pass, yards per attempt, quarterback rating, net yards per attempt, 4th quarter comebacks (4) and game-winning drives (5). Averaged 8.7 Y/A in three playoff games with 4 TDs and 0 INTs. His 9.4 Y/A remains in the top ten of all-time.

-- 1981 Ken Anderson: Led the league in TD rate, INT rate, QBR, adjusted yards per attempt and adjusted net yards per attempt while being named MVP by all four sources and snatching the AP OPOY title. Became the first QB to average 8.0 AY/A or a 95+ QBR on over 450 attempts. Threw the 4th quarter game winning TD in the playoffs to beat Buffalo and then outdueled Dan Fouts in the Freezer Bowl to earn a trip to the SB, where the Bengals lost to San Francisco.

-- 1984 Dan Marino: Set NFL records for passing yards and TDs, while leading league in Y/A, AY/A, QBR, NY/A and ANY/A along with sack rate. Still ranks as the 3rd best season since the merger in both NY/A and ANY/A and perhaps the greatest era-adjusted rate season in league history on top of still ranking 3rd in passing TDs and 2nd in passing yards for a single season. Won every major MVP award and AP OPOY; threw 7 TDs and 683 yards in two playoff games to reach the SB as Dolphins scored 76 points, before coming up soft against a great '84 49ers team in the SB.

-- 1989 Joe Montana: Combined his best regular season with his best post-season in a historically elite '89 season. 49ers went 11-2 with him as a starter, as Montana led league in completion percentage, TD rate, yards per attempt, AY/A, yards per game, NY/A and ANY/A; set NFL QBR record with 112.4. The 8.3 ANY/A was the highest mark of his career. In post-season, Montana went 65/83 (78.3 comp%) for 800 yards (9.6 Y/A) with 11 TDs and 0 INTs (146.4) in perhaps the greatest three-game post-season stretch in football history. San Francisco won each game by at least 27 points to win their 2nd straight SB.

-- 1994 Steve Young: '94 was the third straight season that Young led the league in touchdown passes, touchdown rate, yards per attempt, AY/A, QBR, NY/A and ANY/A. In '94, he also led the league in completion percentage (setting the 16-game single season record) and broke Montana's single season QBR record; also rushed for 7 touchdowns, giving him 42 total. Won all 4 MVP awards and then the SB MVP. Threw 9 TDs and 0 INTs -- while running for 2 more -- in three playoff victories, all of which the 49ers scored at least 38 points. Capped it off with a 6-TD performance in the SB.

-- 1999 Kurt Warner: Warner led the league in completion percentage, TDs, TD rate, Y/A, AY/A, QBR, NY/A and ANY/A while producing the most shocking elite season of all-time. Threw for 391 yards and 5 TDs while throwing only six incompletions against the Vikings in the playoffs, then threw 4Q game-winning TD passes to beat the Bucs and Titans. Won SB MVP honors by setting the (still standing) mark for passing yards in a SB (416).

-- 2004 Peyton Manning: an outlier season, even by Manning's lofty standards. Manning set NFL records in touchdowns, AY/A and QBR, while leading the league in TD rate, Y/A, Y/C, NY/A and ANY/A. The Colts scored at least 20 points in the first 15 games of the season, as Manning led Indy to a 12-3 record before resting in week 17. Against the Broncos, Manning threw for 458 yards and 4 TDs -- and scored a rushing TD, too -- in an obliteration of his now current team. On a cold, snowy day in Foxboro, Manning went 27/42 for 238 yards with 0 TDs and 1 INT as the Patriots won, 20-3.

-- 2007 Tom Brady: set records for passing TDs and wins in a season, Brady threw 50 TDs as NE went 16-0. Brady led the league in completion percentage, yards, TD rate, yards per attempt, AY/A, QBR, NY/A and ANY/A as NE set the single-season points record. Brady went 26/28 for 262 yards and 3 TDs against Jacksonville, before struggling in the next two playoff games. Against San Diego, Brady had just 209 yards, 2 TDs and 3 INTs while in the SB, Brady averaged 5.5 Y/A and threw only 1 TD, as NE lost, 17-14.

-- 2011 Aaron Rodgers: Led the Packers to a 13-0 start -- their 19th straight win -- en route to one of the most impressive statistical seasons of all-time. Rodgers set the single season QBR record and the AY/A mark, while also leading the league in TD rate, Y/A, ANY/A, and NY/A; rushed for 257 yards and 3 TDs, giving him 48 total TDs in 15 starts (with just 6 INTs). His 9.25 Y/A mark was the highest of any QB with at least 350 attempts in NFL history (Rodgers had 502). Posted a QBR over 105 in each of the first 12 games; against the Giants, Rodgers struggled with only 264 yards on 46 attempts, although he did rush for 66 yards and throw 2 TDs.

 

[Carver]

Watching Tom Brady in 2007 was the closest thing I have ever seen to a video game on the field. It was just unreal the way he destroyed the league that season. I've never seen anything like it in my 25yrs of watching the NFL.

 

[Mr. Peterson]

If Peyton played the additional 6 quarters of the season he sat out, and had a coach who let him continue to throw TD's with a 40 point lead then we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

 

[johnadams]

What? No love for Fouts, who shattered the passing yardage record in 1980 by over 15%. It took 30 years before someone extended the yardage record by the same margin. Never mind that he broke his own record from 1979 and broke it again in 1981. I'm still voting for Marino in 1984 because setting yardage and TD records that stand for over 20 years is just ridiculous. I don't care about the rest of the stats.

 

[moleculo]

Obviously limited by space here, but feel free to write in any others. I'll leave the analysis to you guys but just note a blurb or two about each candidate:

-- 1943 Sid Luckman: set still standing single-season records for yards per pass (10.9), adjusted yards per pass (11.0), touchdown percentage (13.9), yards per completion (19.9) during a championship season for the Bears. Against the rival Redskins (and Sammy Baugh) in the NFL title game, Luckman put on perhaps the greatest title game performance in league history, going 15/26 for 286 yards with 5 TDs and 0 INTs, while chipping in with two interceptions as a defensive back.

-- 1953 Otto Graham:

-- 1959 Johnny Unitas: while '58 contained his most memorable performance and '64 was his best regular season, Unitas put it all together in '59. On top of a fantastic championship game performance --- 18/29, 264 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, 1 rushing TD -- Unitas led the league in the regular season in passing yards and passing touchdowns while winning the AP, UPI and Bert Bell MVP awards. The Colts scored 21+ points in every game, and scored 28, 45, 35, 34, 45 and 31 on the six-game winning streak to end the season.

-- 1966 Bart Starr: En route to AP, UPI and NEA MVP honors, Starr led the Packers to an 11-2 record while leading the league in completion percentage, yards per attempt, interception rate and quarterback rating. Starr posted an incredible 9.6 AY/A with a 14/3 TD/INT ratio while averaging 9.0 Y/A; he then went 19/28 for 304 yards and 4 TDs with 0 INTs, as the Packers went into the Cotton Bowl and defeated the Cowboys 34-27 to win the title. To top things off, he earned the first SB MVP award and his 16/23, 250, 2/1 performance against the Chiefs made Green Bay the first SB champs.

-- 1971 Roger Staubach: in limited action, Staubach showed us what he would become in a 1971 season that saw him go 13-0 as starter and end in a SB victory. Staubach threw 15 TDs and just 4 INTs on 211 passes, and posted historically outstanding rate numbers in the deadest of dead ball eras: 8.9 Y/A, 104.8 QBR, 9.5 AY/A and 7.8 ANY/A, while also rushing for 343 yards and 2 TDs. Went 12/19 for 119 yards and 2 TDs and 0 INTs as the Cowboys shed their "Next Year's Champs" label and won their first championship.

-- 1976 Ken Stabler: Raiders went 11-1 and won their first SB as Stabler led the league in completion percentage, TDs, TD rate, long pass, yards per attempt, quarterback rating, net yards per attempt, 4th quarter comebacks (4) and game-winning drives (5). Averaged 8.7 Y/A in three playoff games with 4 TDs and 0 INTs. His 9.4 Y/A remains in the top ten of all-time.



-- 1981 Ken Anderson:

-- 1984 Dan Marino:

-- 1989 Joe Montana: Combined his best regular season with his best post-season in a historically elite '89 season. 49ers went 11-2 with him as a starter, as Montana led league in completion percentage, TD rate, yards per attempt, AY/A, yards per game, NY/A and ANY/A; set NFL QBR record with 112.4. The 8.3 ANY/A was the highest mark of his career. In post-season, Montana went 65/83 (78.3 comp%) for 800 yards (9.6 Y/A) with 11 TDs and 0 INTs (146.4) in perhaps the greatest three-game post-season stretch in football history. San Francisco won each game by at least 27 points to win their 2nd straight SB.

-- 1994 Steve Young: '94 was the third straight season that Young led the league in touchdown passes, touchdown rate, yards per attempt, AY/A, QBR, NY/A and ANY/A. In '94, he also led the league in completion percentage (setting the 16-game single season record) and broke Montana's single season QBR record; also rushed for 7 touchdowns, giving him 42 total. Won all 4 MVP awards and then the SB MVP. Threw 9 TDs and 0 INTs -- while running for 2 more -- in three playoff victories, all of which the 49ers scored at least 38 points. Capped it off with a 6-TD performance in the SB.

-- 1999 Kurt Warner: Warner led the league in completion percentage, TDs, TD rate, Y/A, AY/A, QBR, NY/A and ANY/A while producing the most shocking elite season of all-time. Threw for 391 yards and 5 TDs while throwing only six incompletions against the Vikings in the playoffs, then threw 4Q game-winning TD passes to beat the Bucs and Titans. Won SB MVP honors by setting the (still standing) mark for passing yards in a SB (416).

-- 2004 Peyton Manning:

-- 2007 Tom Brady:

-- 2011 Aaron Rodgers:

eliminated all non-championship seasons.if you end the year without a championship, it cannot be considered the greatest single season. I guarantee you Marino would have traded all of that for a SB ring.

 

[BroadwayG]

No drew breese?

 

[Time Kibitzer]

Obviously limited by space here, but feel free to write in any others. I'll leave the analysis to you guys but just note a blurb or two about each candidate:

-- 1943 Sid Luckman: set still standing single-season records for yards per pass (10.9), adjusted yards per pass (11.0), touchdown percentage (13.9), yards per completion (19.9) during a championship season for the Bears. Against the rival Redskins (and Sammy Baugh) in the NFL title game, Luckman put on perhaps the greatest title game performance in league history, going 15/26 for 286 yards with 5 TDs and 0 INTs, while chipping in with two interceptions as a defensive back.

-- 1953 Otto Graham:

-- 1959 Johnny Unitas: while '58 contained his most memorable performance and '64 was his best regular season, Unitas put it all together in '59. On top of a fantastic championship game performance --- 18/29, 264 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, 1 rushing TD -- Unitas led the league in the regular season in passing yards and passing touchdowns while winning the AP, UPI and Bert Bell MVP awards. The Colts scored 21+ points in every game, and scored 28, 45, 35, 34, 45 and 31 on the six-game winning streak to end the season.

-- 1966 Bart Starr: En route to AP, UPI and NEA MVP honors, Starr led the Packers to an 11-2 record while leading the league in completion percentage, yards per attempt, interception rate and quarterback rating. Starr posted an incredible 9.6 AY/A with a 14/3 TD/INT ratio while averaging 9.0 Y/A; he then went 19/28 for 304 yards and 4 TDs with 0 INTs, as the Packers went into the Cotton Bowl and defeated the Cowboys 34-27 to win the title. To top things off, he earned the first SB MVP award and his 16/23, 250, 2/1 performance against the Chiefs made Green Bay the first SB champs.

-- 1971 Roger Staubach: in limited action, Staubach showed us what he would become in a 1971 season that saw him go 13-0 as starter and end in a SB victory. Staubach threw 15 TDs and just 4 INTs on 211 passes, and posted historically outstanding rate numbers in the deadest of dead ball eras: 8.9 Y/A, 104.8 QBR, 9.5 AY/A and 7.8 ANY/A, while also rushing for 343 yards and 2 TDs. Went 12/19 for 119 yards and 2 TDs and 0 INTs as the Cowboys shed their "Next Year's Champs" label and won their first championship.

-- 1976 Ken Stabler: Raiders went 11-1 and won their first SB as Stabler led the league in completion percentage, TDs, TD rate, long pass, yards per attempt, quarterback rating, net yards per attempt, 4th quarter comebacks (4) and game-winning drives (5). Averaged 8.7 Y/A in three playoff games with 4 TDs and 0 INTs. His 9.4 Y/A remains in the top ten of all-time.



-- 1981 Ken Anderson:

-- 1984 Dan Marino:

-- 1989 Joe Montana: Combined his best regular season with his best post-season in a historically elite '89 season. 49ers went 11-2 with him as a starter, as Montana led league in completion percentage, TD rate, yards per attempt, AY/A, yards per game, NY/A and ANY/A; set NFL QBR record with 112.4. The 8.3 ANY/A was the highest mark of his career. In post-season, Montana went 65/83 (78.3 comp%) for 800 yards (9.6 Y/A) with 11 TDs and 0 INTs (146.4) in perhaps the greatest three-game post-season stretch in football history. San Francisco won each game by at least 27 points to win their 2nd straight SB.

-- 1994 Steve Young: '94 was the third straight season that Young led the league in touchdown passes, touchdown rate, yards per attempt, AY/A, QBR, NY/A and ANY/A. In '94, he also led the league in completion percentage (setting the 16-game single season record) and broke Montana's single season QBR record; also rushed for 7 touchdowns, giving him 42 total. Won all 4 MVP awards and then the SB MVP. Threw 9 TDs and 0 INTs -- while running for 2 more -- in three playoff victories, all of which the 49ers scored at least 38 points. Capped it off with a 6-TD performance in the SB.

-- 1999 Kurt Warner: Warner led the league in completion percentage, TDs, TD rate, Y/A, AY/A, QBR, NY/A and ANY/A while producing the most shocking elite season of all-time. Threw for 391 yards and 5 TDs while throwing only six incompletions against the Vikings in the playoffs, then threw 4Q game-winning TD passes to beat the Bucs and Titans. Won SB MVP honors by setting the (still standing) mark for passing yards in a SB (416).

-- 2004 Peyton Manning:

-- 2007 Tom Brady:

-- 2011 Aaron Rodgers:

eliminated all non-championship seasons.if you end the year without a championship, it cannot be considered the greatest single season. I guarantee you Marino would have traded all of that for a SB ring.

Sure it can, QB play and team winning % are far from perfectly correlated. It's gotta be Dan Marino in '84, because as johnadams said, those records he set lasted over 20 years.

 

[Hang 10]

Definitely Marino in 84. Those numbers are still considered ridiculous today but when you compare them to his peers in the 80's...there's no comparison.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Definitely Marino in 84. Those numbers are still considered ridiculous today but when you compare them to his peers in the 80's...there's no comparison.

Not as drastic, but in some ways like comparing Babe Ruth's home run numbers to others in his day.As hard as it is to compare accross eras, it's fairly easy to compare against one's peers.

 

[finito]

eliminated all non-championship seasons.if you end the year without a championship, it cannot be considered the greatest single season. I guarantee you Marino would have traded all of that for a SB ring.

Don't agree with that at all. If this were the case there would be no records other than those who won championships. Makes zero sense to me.

 

[Area51Inhabitant]

Marino throwing for 5000 yards and 48 Td's for the same coach who once called 7 pass plays in a Super Bowl game gets my vote.

 

[jasvic]

eliminated all non-championship seasons.

if you end the year without a championship, it cannot be considered the greatest single season. I guarantee you Marino would have traded all of that for a SB ring.

Don't agree with that at all. If this were the case there would be no records other than those who won championships. Makes zero sense to me.

It makes sense to the question being asked, greatest single season for a QB. If you ask greatest statistical season for a QB, that's different. A bit nitpicky, but accurate.

 

[Chase Stuart]

What? No love for Fouts, who shattered the passing yardage record in 1980 by over 15%. It took 30 years before someone extended the yardage record by the same margin. Never mind that he broke his own record from 1979 and broke it again in 1981. I'm still voting for Marino in 1984 because setting yardage and TD records that stand for over 20 years is just ridiculous. I don't care about the rest of the stats.

Looked hard at Fouts, but his best years always ended in really ugly playoff losses. He also didn't have the super elite monster seasons that Brady/Manning/Marino/Rodgers had. In his two big yardage seasons, he threw a bunch of INTs and didn't lead the league in yards per attempt. I struggled with Fouts and with Baugh, but both had a bunch of great years and no historically superior one season, IMO. His '82 was otherworldy but the fact that it was only 9 games and it ended so horrifically kept it off my list.It's also misleading to say Fouts "shattered" the passing yardage record by 15% when he played in 14% more games than Namath.

 

[Tau837]

They are all great seasons, so I will attempt process of elimination.

1. While I think QBs get too much credit for wins and losses, I think it's reasonable to think the greatest QB season of all time should include leading his team to a championship, so I eliminate those who did not do that in their cited seasons: Graham, Anderson, Marino, Manning, Brady, and Rodgers.

2. I eliminate Luckman, Staubach, and Starr from consideration due to limited sample sizes. Including postseason, Luckman attempted just 228 passes, Staubach attempted just 262 passes, and Starr attempted just 302 passes. As good as they were, IMO those seasons cannot measure up to the other great performances that were built on much larger sample sizes.

3. I also think it is a big plus to those who had strong playoff runs over multiple games. I eliminate Unitas because he only had to play one postseason game to win the championship. Remember, we are splitting hairs here.

4. I think it makes sense that the greatest season should be a MVP and 1st team All Pro season, so I eliminate Stabler, since he was neither (Stabler won the Bert Bell POY award, but Bert Jones was 1st team All Pro and swept all 3 MVP awards).

That process gets me down to Montana, Young, and Warner.

5. All three of them won the AP, PFWA, and NEA MVP awards, the Bert Bell POY award, and Super Bowl MVP in their cited seasons. But Montana was the only one of them who also won OPOY. And Warner's own teammate Faulk won OPOY. Positive for Montana, negative for Warner.

6. Combining regular season and postseason:

a. Young had 53 TDs, 10 interceptions, and 4 fumbles in 19 games; Warner had 50 TDs, 17 interceptions, and 9 fumbles in 19 games; Montana had 42 TDs, 8 interceptions, and 9 fumbles in 16 games.

b. Combining passing and rushing yards, here are their average total yards per game: Warner 289.9; Montana 285.4; Young 263.8. I suspect some people will be surprised by this.

c. Montana led 4 4th quarter comebacks and 5 game winning drives; Warner led 2 4QC and 4 GWD; and Young led 1 4QC and 1 GWD. It should be noted that Montana and Young did not lead any 4QC or GWD in the playoffs, whereas one of Warner's 4QC and two of his GWDs were in the playoffs.

d. In games they started: Young's 49ers were 16-3; Warner's Rams were 16-3; Montana's 49ers were 14-2.

7. Looking at supporting casts on offense, both Montana and Young had Rice but no other HOFers. Warner had Faulk, Holt, Bruce, and Pace, all potential HOFers. On the other hand, both Montana and Young played with great defenses, while Warner's team had one of the worst defenses in the league.

8. As Chase mentioned, Montana had the best overall postseason performance in history, the likes of which will probably never be approached again. Warner had more yards but also threw 4 interceptions; neither Montana nor Young threw a postseason interception in their cited seasons. Young threw for fewer than 160 yards in the two playoff games prior to the Super Bowl. Huge edge to Montana over the others here.

Combining these points, I rank their cited seasons in this order: Montana 1989, Young 1994, Warner 1999.

So IMO the answer is: Montana 1989.

 

[Tau837]

eliminated all non-championship seasons.

if you end the year without a championship, it cannot be considered the greatest single season. I guarantee you Marino would have traded all of that for a SB ring.

Don't agree with that at all. If this were the case there would be no records other than those who won championships. Makes zero sense to me.

It makes sense to the question being asked, greatest single season for a QB. If you ask greatest statistical season for a QB, that's different. A bit nitpicky, but accurate.

Ignoring championships, I think Marino's 1984 season was the most impressive. Had the Dolphins won that Super Bowl, it would be the greatest QB season of all time. But they didn't and it's not.

 

[Tau837]

Interesting thread, Chase.

You should post in the pool more often.

 

[Ghost Rider]

FYI, JWB, you said,

Young's 49ers were 16-3; Montana's 49ers were 14-2; Warner's Rams were 13-6

But Warner's Rams in '99 went 16-3, not 13-6. And Montana's 49ers were 17-2.

 

[Chase Stuart]

My thoughts:

First cut: All of these were great, MVP-type seasons. So my view is you need to find who had the fewest warts. The first five cuts right:

-- '53 Graham: horrific title game performance overshadows elite season

-- '59 Unitas: put the player aside, no real "wow" factor to his stats that year

-- '71 Staubach: only 211 attempts

-- '76 Stabler: great season, but Bert Jones was arguably better that year; no "wow" factor

-- '81 Anderson: great rate #s but hardly stands out as GOAT-worthy; lost 4 games, "only" 3rd in points

I'd then look at the Big 4 Stat seasons: Marino, Manning, Brady, Rodgers. We could spend a lot of time debating how to rank those 4, but easy enough to group them together. Fantastic regular seasons -- maybe the best 4 ever -- but the competition here is too good to let a wart as big as "playoff failure" slide by.

That leaves 5 really tough ones to gauge. All won titles and had marvelous seasons:

-- '43 Luckman

-- '66 Starr

-- '89 Montana

-- '94 Young

-- '99 Warner

Which elite season is easiest to pick apart? Probably Warner's. You can point to a super easy SOS + relatively unimpressive post-season #s + supporting cast of Faulk/Holt/Bruce/Pace/Martz + dome. Another thing to consider is Warner was arguably better the next season in several areas. Again, obviously splicing hairs, but that's the first thing that sticks out to me.

It probably makes the most sense to compare Montana and Young next. Honestly how do you even do that?

Year GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Y/A AY/A Y/G Rate Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk%1994*+ 16 13-3-0 324 461 70.3 3969 35 7.6 10 2.2 8.6 9.2 248.1 112.8 31 163 7.7 8.2 6.31989*+ 13 11-2-0 271 386 70.2 3521 26 6.7 8 2.1 9.1 9.5 270.8 112.4 33 198 7.9 8.3 7.9
Young has the edge in 3 more games and in TD rate; Montana has a health edge in Y/A, although he had a worse sack rate. In ANY/A Montana has the slight edge but in 3 fewer games; on the other hand, '89 was a sliiiightly less pass-friendly era. Montana added 3 rushing Tds and 227 yards; Young added 293 yards and 7 TDs. The '94 49ers also were a higher-scoring offense.

Perhaps the biggest factor tilting things in Young's favor?

In '89, he was arguably better than Montana. In relief duty, Young went 3-0 and won two other games he replaced Montana in. completed 70% of his passes for 1001 yards, 8 TDs, 3 INTs. He averaged 10.9 Y/A, 11.2 AY/A and 9.1 ANY/A while also rushing for 126 yards and 2 Tds. Young torched the Pats (11/12, 188, 3, 0) after coming in to a 10-10 tie; Against the Falcons, SF was trailing 10-6 in the second half when Young went 11/12 for 175 yards and 1 TD and ran for another.

Young '94 and Montana '89 had ridiculous post-seasons. But I'll give Young the edge based on a full 16 games plus the way he equaled (if not bettered) Montana in '89 as well. Fair? Maybe not. But I don't know what else to do.

So that leaves Luckman '43 vs. Starr '66 vs. Young '94.

As insane as Luckman was, I think you have to play the level of competition card. By '43 WWII was in full effect and it was just an 8-team league. I'm not sure how much to weigh Luckman's defensive accomplishments here, but I'm learning towards giving them too little weight as opposed to too much. His title game performance was legendary and his yards per attempt #s were through the roof, but the low # of attempts + the war makes me leave him out.

So it's Starr '66 and Young '94. As elite as Starr was and as impressive as his post-season #s were, I have to go with Young. Starr's Packers were last in the league in pass attempts; while the '94 49ers were stacked just like the '66 Packers, the identify of SF was as a passing team. That's more than enough of a tiebreaker for me. Young was asked to carry his team and did so fantastically. Putting aside week 17 when Young barely played, the 49ers averaged 41 PPG in their last 8 games. By the second half of the season, Young's 49ers were as lethal an offense as we've ever seen. In those 8 games, Young had 25 TDs to just 2 INTs while adding in 4 rushing scores.

 

[Tau837]

FYI, JWB, you said,

Young's 49ers were 16-3; Montana's 49ers were 14-2; Warner's Rams were 13-6

But Warner's Rams in '99 went 16-3, not 13-6. And Montana's 49ers were 17-2.

You're right on Warner, I inadvertently picked up the 2000 regular season. I edited my post, and it doesn't change my answer.Montana's 49ers were 17-2, but Montana missed three games and was 14-2. I reworded it to make it clearer.Thanks.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Hey Chase,

I'm not sure if you are looking more towards high production for era plus wins by team to come to bring together your list but if you are looking strictly at single season production as the criteria for a great seasn then Daunte Culpepper had a monster season in 2004.

- connected on over 69% of his passes

- threw for 4,717 yards

- threw for 39 touchdowns

- only 11 interceptions

- ran 88 times for an additional 406 yards

- ran for an addtional 2 touchdowns

He set the single combined (passing + rushing) best yardage season in league history that stands today.

The Vikes only finished 8-8 but that was undeniably a great statistical season for a QB.

 

[Chase Stuart]

8. As Chase mentioned, Montana had the best overall postseason performance in history, the likes of which will probably never be approached again. Warner had more yards but also threw 4 interceptions; neither Montana nor Young threw a postseason interception in their cited seasons. Young threw for fewer than 160 yards in the two playoff games prior to the Super Bowl. Huge edge to Montana over the others here.

Combining these points, I rank their cited seasons in this order: Montana 1989, Young 1994, Warner 1999.

So IMO the answer is: Montana 1989.

As you can see, we came about this from the same angle. The more I think about it, the more I think it's easy to differentiate based on missed time.--Against the Cowboys, Montana sat the game out with a sore elbow. Now sure this was the 1-15 Cowboys the week after they traded Herschel Walker, so it made sense with sit him.

-- Against New England, he was carted off with a sprained knee with 5 seconds left in the half (Young came in and threw a 1-yard TD to take a 17-10 halftime lead). He missed the next game.

-- Against Atlanta, Montana aggravated his rib injury and missed the second half of the game.

-- With sore ribs, Montana rested in week 16 against Buffalo, as the 49ers had wrapped up the #1 seed.

It seems like the benefit of a great backup + a great record enabled Montana to sit more often than he would have. But still, he missed 3 full games and two complete halves. That's a quarter of a season (and he also sat out some of week 17). That's not insignificant.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Hey Chase,I'm not sure if you are looking more towards high production for era plus wins by team to come to bring together your list but if you are looking strictly at single season production as the criteria for a great seasn then Daunte Culpepper had a monster season in 2004.- connected on over 69% of his passes- threw for 4,717 yards- threw for 39 touchdowns- only 11 interceptions- ran 88 times for an additional 406 yards- ran for an addtional 2 touchdownsHe set the single combined (passing + rushing) best yardage season in league history that stands today.The Vikes only finished 8-8 but that was undeniably a great statistical season for a QB.

Yeah, it's up there. I left it out for the same reason I left out Dawson '66 or 'Jones '76 or Brees '11 -- if you aren't #1 for your year, you're out.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

It never ceases to amaze me how much credit people give QBs for victories, and how little they take into account defense, special teams, and luck.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

It never ceases to amaze me how much credit people give QBs for victories, and how little they take into account defense, special teams, and luck.

Come on buddy get with the flow, Dilfer > Marino.

 

[Tau837]

My thoughts:

First cut: All of these were great, MVP-type seasons. So my view is you need to find who had the fewest warts. The first five cuts right:

-- '53 Graham: horrific title game performance overshadows elite season

-- '59 Unitas: put the player aside, no real "wow" factor to his stats that year

-- '71 Staubach: only 211 attempts

-- '76 Stabler: great season, but Bert Jones was arguably better that year; no "wow" factor

-- '81 Anderson: great rate #s but hardly stands out as GOAT-worthy; lost 4 games, "only" 3rd in points

I'd then look at the Big 4 Stat seasons: Marino, Manning, Brady, Rodgers. We could spend a lot of time debating how to rank those 4, but easy enough to group them together. Fantastic regular seasons -- maybe the best 4 ever -- but the competition here is too good to let a wart as big as "playoff failure" slide by.

That leaves 5 really tough ones to gauge. All won titles and had marvelous seasons:

-- '43 Luckman

-- '66 Starr

-- '89 Montana

-- '94 Young

-- '99 Warner

Which elite season is easiest to pick apart? Probably Warner's. You can point to a super easy SOS + relatively unimpressive post-season #s + supporting cast of Faulk/Holt/Bruce/Pace/Martz + dome. Another thing to consider is Warner was arguably better the next season in several areas. Again, obviously splicing hairs, but that's the first thing that sticks out to me.

It probably makes the most sense to compare Montana and Young next. Honestly how do you even do that?

Year GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Y/A AY/A Y/G Rate Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk%1994*+ 16 13-3-0 324 461 70.3 3969 35 7.6 10 2.2 8.6 9.2 248.1 112.8 31 163 7.7 8.2 6.31989*+ 13 11-2-0 271 386 70.2 3521 26 6.7 8 2.1 9.1 9.5 270.8 112.4 33 198 7.9 8.3 7.9Young has the edge in 3 more games and in TD rate; Montana has a health edge in Y/A, although he had a worse sack rate. In ANY/A Montana has the slight edge but in 3 fewer games; on the other hand, '89 was a sliiiightly less pass-friendly era. Montana added 3 rushing Tds and 227 yards; Young added 293 yards and 7 TDs. The '94 49ers also were a higher-scoring offense.Perhaps the biggest factor tilting things in Young's favor?

In '89, he was arguably better than Montana. In relief duty, Young went 3-0 and won two other games he replaced Montana in. completed 70% of his passes for 1001 yards, 8 TDs, 3 INTs. He averaged 10.9 Y/A, 11.2 AY/A and 9.1 ANY/A while also rushing for 126 yards and 2 Tds. Young torched the Pats (11/12, 188, 3, 0) after coming in to a 10-10 tie; Against the Falcons, SF was trailing 10-6 in the second half when Young went 11/12 for 175 yards and 1 TD and ran for another.

Young '94 and Montana '89 had ridiculous post-seasons. But I'll give Young the edge based on a full 16 games plus the way he equaled (if not bettered) Montana in '89 as well. Fair? Maybe not. But I don't know what else to do.

So that leaves Luckman '43 vs. Starr '66 vs. Young '94.

As insane as Luckman was, I think you have to play the level of competition card. By '43 WWII was in full effect and it was just an 8-team league. I'm not sure how much to weigh Luckman's defensive accomplishments here, but I'm learning towards giving them too little weight as opposed to too much. His title game performance was legendary and his yards per attempt #s were through the roof, but the low # of attempts + the war makes me leave him out.

So it's Starr '66 and Young '94. As elite as Starr was and as impressive as his post-season #s were, I have to go with Young. Starr's Packers were last in the league in pass attempts; while the '94 49ers were stacked just like the '66 Packers, the identify of SF was as a passing team. That's more than enough of a tiebreaker for me. Young was asked to carry his team and did so fantastically. Putting aside week 17 when Young barely played, the 49ers averaged 41 PPG in their last 8 games. By the second half of the season, Young's 49ers were as lethal an offense as we've ever seen. In those 8 games, Young had 25 TDs to just 2 INTs while adding in 4 rushing scores.

Good post. You rank Young #1, I rank him #2.I think you were slightly inconsistent in your reasoning to drop Staubach early for low attempts but let Luckman and Starr hang in until the final group. Were you judging Staubach's attempts relative to his peers in 1971 or relative to the other seasons being discussed here? I took the latter approach and used it to rule out all three of them. It seems that you must be also taking the latter approach since you ultimately commented that the Packers were last in the league in attempts.

When comparing Young to Montana, you didn't seem to really give Montana much of an edge for the postseason, which is what led me to choose Montana over Young. You say they both had incredible postseasons, which is true, but Montana's was clearly better:

Montana 1989: 3 games, 65/83 (78.3%), 800 passing yards (9.6 ypa), 11 passing TDs, 0 interceptions, 151.7 passer rating, 5/19/0 rushing

Young 1994: 3 games, 53/87 (60.9%), 623 passing yards (7.2 ypa), 9 passing TDs, 0 interceptions, 117.2 passer rating, 20/128/2 rushing

And Montana arguably did it against better defenses. Here is where their playoff opponents ranked in points allowed and yards allowed:

Montana 1989: MIN (6/1), LA (17/21), DEN (1/3)

Young 1994: CHI (10/13), DAL (3/1), SD (9/14)

Montana beat destroyed two top ranked defenses (41 points and 4 TD passes vs. MIN, 55 points and 5 TD passes vs. DEN), whereas Young only beat one (38 points, 3 TDs vs. DAL).

When the games meant the most, Young was elite, but Montana had the best performance ever, and that should carry more weight IMO.

 

[Tau837]

8. As Chase mentioned, Montana had the best overall postseason performance in history, the likes of which will probably never be approached again. Warner had more yards but also threw 4 interceptions; neither Montana nor Young threw a postseason interception in their cited seasons. Young threw for fewer than 160 yards in the two playoff games prior to the Super Bowl. Huge edge to Montana over the others here.

Combining these points, I rank their cited seasons in this order: Montana 1989, Young 1994, Warner 1999.

So IMO the answer is: Montana 1989.

As you can see, we came about this from the same angle. The more I think about it, the more I think it's easy to differentiate based on missed time.--Against the Cowboys, Montana sat the game out with a sore elbow. Now sure this was the 1-15 Cowboys the week after they traded Herschel Walker, so it made sense with sit him.

-- Against New England, he was carted off with a sprained knee with 5 seconds left in the half (Young came in and threw a 1-yard TD to take a 17-10 halftime lead). He missed the next game.

-- Against Atlanta, Montana aggravated his rib injury and missed the second half of the game.

-- With sore ribs, Montana rested in week 16 against Buffalo, as the 49ers had wrapped up the #1 seed.

It seems like the benefit of a great backup + a great record enabled Montana to sit more often than he would have. But still, he missed 3 full games and two complete halves. That's a quarter of a season (and he also sat out some of week 17). That's not insignificant.

This is true, but he still played 16 games on the season. And the flip side of him missing time is that he played through and/or came back from a rib injury and a sprained knee to have the incredible season he did, which is quite impressive.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Good post. You rank Young #1, I rank him #2.

I think you were slightly inconsistent in your reasoning to drop Staubach early for low attempts but let Luckman and Starr hang in until the final group. Were you judging Staubach's attempts relative to his peers in 1971 or relative to the other seasons being discussed here? I took the latter approach and used it to rule out all three of them. It seems that you must be also taking the latter approach since you ultimately commented that the Packers were last in the league in attempts.

Yeah, I mean a low # of attempts in '43 is just different than '71. With Staubach vs. Starr, the issue was the low # of attempts was also due to only starting 10 games. It really wasn't a full season so the rate numbers are more suspect. On second thought, they are probably closer than I realized. Both were really incredible seasons. I think Starr's post-season success just made me want to include him, as it was arguably as good as Montana's era-adjusted.

When comparing Young to Montana, you didn't seem to really give Montana much of an edge for the postseason, which is what led me to choose Montana over Young. You say they both had incredible postseasons, which is true, but Montana's was clearly better:

Montana 1989: 3 games, 65/83 (78.3%), 800 passing yards (9.6 ypa), 11 passing TDs, 0 interceptions, 151.7 passer rating, 5/19/0 rushing

Young 1994: 3 games, 53/87 (60.9%), 623 passing yards (7.2 ypa), 9 passing TDs, 0 interceptions, 117.2 passer rating, 20/128/2 rushing

And Montana arguably did it against better defenses. Here is where their playoff opponents ranked in points allowed and yards allowed:

Montana 1989: MIN (6/1), LA (17/21), DEN (1/3)

Young 1994: CHI (10/13), DAL (3/1), SD (9/14)

Montana beat destroyed two top ranked defenses (41 points and 4 TD passes vs. MIN, 55 points and 5 TD passes vs. DEN), whereas Young only beat one (38 points, 3 TDs vs. DAL).

When the games meant the most, Young was elite, but Montana had the best performance ever, and that should carry more weight IMO.

I probably did sell Montana a little short there. '94 Dallas was easily the best team either faced, though, so maybe that helps Young a little bit. No doubt Montana had the better post-season but on some level it becomes splitting hairs. The 49ers murdered the Bears and the Chargers and Young played very well in a game against Dallas that got out of hand early in SF's favor. Both the '89 and '94 49ers led by an average of over 20 points at halftime of their three playoff games and by 24+ points after 3 quarters.Statistically, Montana was better in the post-season. Guess the question becomes whether that's enough to overcome the missed games in the regular season. Throw in how well Young himself played in '89, and it makes me lean Young.

 

[johnadams]

What? No love for Fouts, who shattered the passing yardage record in 1980 by over 15%. It took 30 years before someone extended the yardage record by the same margin. Never mind that he broke his own record from 1979 and broke it again in 1981. I'm still voting for Marino in 1984 because setting yardage and TD records that stand for over 20 years is just ridiculous. I don't care about the rest of the stats.

Looked hard at Fouts, but his best years always ended in really ugly playoff losses. He also didn't have the super elite monster seasons that Brady/Manning/Marino/Rodgers had. In his two big yardage seasons, he threw a bunch of INTs and didn't lead the league in yards per attempt. I struggled with Fouts and with Baugh, but both had a bunch of great years and no historically superior one season, IMO. His '82 was otherworldy but the fact that it was only 9 games and it ended so horrifically kept it off my list.It's also misleading to say Fouts "shattered" the passing yardage record by 15% when he played in 14% more games than Namath.

Yeah, good point. I look at Fouts as breaking his own record and forget the 14 games of Namath. For some reason, I just think Fouts has been given too little respect, mostly cause Marino came in after him by just a few years. But Fouts also set the passing yardage record three straight years.

 

[GregR]

...I'd then look at the Big 4 Stat seasons: Marino, Manning, Brady, Rodgers. We could spend a lot of time debating how to rank those 4, but easy enough to group them together. Fantastic regular seasons -- maybe the best 4 ever -- but the competition here is too good to let a wart as big as "playoff failure" slide by.That leaves 5 really tough ones to gauge. All won titles and had marvelous seasons:-- '43 Luckman-- '66 Starr-- '89 Montana-- '94 Young-- '99 Warner...

I'd like to focus on this part.Marino had a playoff loss in 84 where he went 29/50 for 318 yards, with 1 TD, 2 INTs and a 66.9 passer rating against his season's #1 defense.Kurt Warner in '99 had a playoff win where he went 26/43 for 258 yards, 1 TD, 3 INTs, and a 56.2 passer rating against his season's #3 defense.Marino's defense gave up 38 points to the 49ers while Kurt Warner's defense only gave up 6 points to Tampa Bay. That is what caused the difference in those game outcomes. So really what you're saying is Kurt Warner had the better QB season because the '84 49ers had a better offense than '99 Tampa did.What does that any of that have to do with how good of a QB season either had?I'm not completely adverse to considering playoff success in such a topic... but I think if you're going to eliminate an entire season based solely on a single game then you need to go far, far.... far far far... deeper into the game than just whether the team won or lost. You need to look at the role the QB played in their results at the very least.

 

[moleculo]

eliminated all non-championship seasons.

if you end the year without a championship, it cannot be considered the greatest single season. I guarantee you Marino would have traded all of that for a SB ring.

Don't agree with that at all. If this were the case there would be no records other than those who won championships. Makes zero sense to me.

It makes sense to the question being asked, greatest single season for a QB. If you ask greatest statistical season for a QB, that's different. A bit nitpicky, but accurate.

exactly. The division gets blurred around here with our focus on stats. If you were to ask Peyton Manning what he considered his greatest season was, do you think he wold talk about 2004 - his greatest statistical season, but lost to NE in the playoffs, or 2007 when he won it all?

I think it should be obvious which he would consider greatest.

Forget all of the stats for a moment and think about what the greatest single season for a QB should have....IMO, it starts with a championship, has lots of regular season wins, dominant statistical performances, and the QB must play at least 15 out of 16 games (Staubach is out for this reason, IMO). Gotta have all three to be the greatest.

 

[moleculo]

...I'd then look at the Big 4 Stat seasons: Marino, Manning, Brady, Rodgers. We could spend a lot of time debating how to rank those 4, but easy enough to group them together. Fantastic regular seasons -- maybe the best 4 ever -- but the competition here is too good to let a wart as big as "playoff failure" slide by.That leaves 5 really tough ones to gauge. All won titles and had marvelous seasons:-- '43 Luckman-- '66 Starr-- '89 Montana-- '94 Young-- '99 Warner...

I'd like to focus on this part.Marino had a playoff loss in 84 where he went 29/50 for 318 yards, with 1 TD, 2 INTs and a 66.9 passer rating against his season's #1 defense.Kurt Warner in '99 had a playoff win where he went 26/43 for 258 yards, 1 TD, 3 INTs, and a 56.2 passer rating against his season's #3 defense.Marino's defense gave up 38 points to the 49ers while Kurt Warner's defense only gave up 6 points to Tampa Bay. That is what caused the difference in those game outcomes. So really what you're saying is Kurt Warner had the better QB season because the '84 49ers had a better offense than '99 Tampa did.What does that any of that have to do with how good of a QB season either had?I'm not completely adverse to considering playoff success in such a topic... but I think if you're going to eliminate an entire season based solely on a single game then you need to go far, far.... far far far... deeper into the game than just whether the team won or lost. You need to look at the role the QB played in their results at the very least.

can you dive deeper than that? My memory isn't so clear sometimes so I don't know the answer to these questions, but all interceptions are not equal. A QB can play a terrible game for 3 quarters but be magnificent in the 4th and pull out the win, or a QB can be brilliant between the 20's but a few incomplete passes in the red zone, and his team is kicking FG's. You talked about Marino's stats vs SF...he threw 50 passes in that game, probably because his team was down 28-10 at one point in the 2nd and was trying to mount a comeback for the entire second half. That's got to pad the stats a bit, no?Sometimes statistics don't tell the whole story, that's all I'm saying here.

 

[Chase Stuart]

...I'd then look at the Big 4 Stat seasons: Marino, Manning, Brady, Rodgers. We could spend a lot of time debating how to rank those 4, but easy enough to group them together. Fantastic regular seasons -- maybe the best 4 ever -- but the competition here is too good to let a wart as big as "playoff failure" slide by.That leaves 5 really tough ones to gauge. All won titles and had marvelous seasons:-- '43 Luckman-- '66 Starr-- '89 Montana-- '94 Young-- '99 Warner...

I'd like to focus on this part.Marino had a playoff loss in 84 where he went 29/50 for 318 yards, with 1 TD, 2 INTs and a 66.9 passer rating against his season's #1 defense.Kurt Warner in '99 had a playoff win where he went 26/43 for 258 yards, 1 TD, 3 INTs, and a 56.2 passer rating against his season's #3 defense.Marino's defense gave up 38 points to the 49ers while Kurt Warner's defense only gave up 6 points to Tampa Bay. That is what caused the difference in those game outcomes. So really what you're saying is Kurt Warner had the better QB season because the '84 49ers had a better offense than '99 Tampa did.What does that any of that have to do with how good of a QB season either had?I'm not completely adverse to considering playoff success in such a topic... but I think if you're going to eliminate an entire season based solely on a single game then you need to go far, far.... far far far... deeper into the game than just whether the team won or lost. You need to look at the role the QB played in their results at the very least.

It's a fair point. Warner really struggled in that game vs. Tampa Bay and was fortunate to be playing an excellent defense in Tampa Bay as opposed to an excellent team in SF. Had the '99 Bucs had Joe Montana, Warner would have lost that game (or Warner would have had to play much better to win).I'm not even saying I'd put Warner's '99 above Marino's '84. It was just that -- when separating out the seasons -- it was easy to lump Marino/Manning/Brady/Rodgers together, since all had record-breaking statistical seasons but a bad playoff outing that led to a loss. It's easy to lump them together and then drop Warner out when comparing his playoff performances to Young/Montana, but it doesn't necessarily mean Warner was better than Marino.

 

[BeTheMatch]

Isn't all caps a bannable offense? Serious question.

 

[GregR]

...I'd then look at the Big 4 Stat seasons: Marino, Manning, Brady, Rodgers. We could spend a lot of time debating how to rank those 4, but easy enough to group them together. Fantastic regular seasons -- maybe the best 4 ever -- but the competition here is too good to let a wart as big as "playoff failure" slide by.That leaves 5 really tough ones to gauge. All won titles and had marvelous seasons:-- '43 Luckman-- '66 Starr-- '89 Montana-- '94 Young-- '99 Warner...

I'd like to focus on this part.Marino had a playoff loss in 84 where he went 29/50 for 318 yards, with 1 TD, 2 INTs and a 66.9 passer rating against his season's #1 defense.Kurt Warner in '99 had a playoff win where he went 26/43 for 258 yards, 1 TD, 3 INTs, and a 56.2 passer rating against his season's #3 defense.Marino's defense gave up 38 points to the 49ers while Kurt Warner's defense only gave up 6 points to Tampa Bay. That is what caused the difference in those game outcomes. So really what you're saying is Kurt Warner had the better QB season because the '84 49ers had a better offense than '99 Tampa did.What does that any of that have to do with how good of a QB season either had?I'm not completely adverse to considering playoff success in such a topic... but I think if you're going to eliminate an entire season based solely on a single game then you need to go far, far.... far far far... deeper into the game than just whether the team won or lost. You need to look at the role the QB played in their results at the very least.

can you dive deeper than that? My memory isn't so clear sometimes so I don't know the answer to these questions, but all interceptions are not equal. A QB can play a terrible game for 3 quarters but be magnificent in the 4th and pull out the win, or a QB can be brilliant between the 20's but a few incomplete passes in the red zone, and his team is kicking FG's. You talked about Marino's stats vs SF...he threw 50 passes in that game, probably because his team was down 28-10 at one point in the 2nd and was trying to mount a comeback for the entire second half. That's got to pad the stats a bit, no?Sometimes statistics don't tell the whole story, that's all I'm saying here.

That's pretty much my point.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

It never ceases to amaze me how much credit people give QBs for victories, and how little they take into account defense, special teams, and luck.

Ditto that. Did we really just throw out arguably the four best QB seasons ever b/c the teams didn't win the SB?How many of the 10 best ever seasons by a RB led to a SB win? WRs? TEs? A QB has an outsized impact on a title, but he can't win the damn thing by himself.

 

[Chase Stuart]

It never ceases to amaze me how much credit people give QBs for victories, and how little they take into account defense, special teams, and luck.

Ditto that. Did we really just throw out arguably the four best QB seasons ever b/c the teams didn't win the SB?How many of the 10 best ever seasons by a RB led to a SB win? WRs? TEs? A QB has an outsized impact on a title, but he can't win the damn thing by himself.

None of those 4 seasons ended with a QB having a great game in a post-season loss. All looked very mortal in those losses. Contrasting with Montana '89 or Young '94, and I think it's pretty easy to make the case that those players were better those seasons.

 

[lbouchard]

Either Marino or Brady for me. I went Brady because I was able to see it and it was pure domination. I'm too young for Marino.

 

[dickey moe]

Brees last season should at least be on the list.

 

[CalBear]

My intuitive answer, without delving deeply into the stats, was Young '94. The two things that put it over the top were the rushing stats, which the other seasons here mostly don't have, and the 6-TD Super Bowl.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

If Peyton played the additional 6 quarters of the season he sat out, and had a coach who let him continue to throw TD's with a 40 point lead then we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

Here's a question that I'm not sure I know the answer to: Are Montana's and Young's accomplishments any less "great" considering they had probably the greatest WR of all time to throw to?

 

[CalBear]

Here's a question that I'm not sure I know the answer to: Are Montana's and Young's accomplishments any less "great" considering they had probably the greatest WR of all time to throw to?

Are Rice's accomplishments any less "great" considering he had two of the greatest QBs of all time to throw to?Manning and Brady both had HOF-caliber receivers in their huge seasons.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Here's a question that I'm not sure I know the answer to: Are Montana's and Young's accomplishments any less "great" considering they had probably the greatest WR of all time to throw to?

Certainly. You can't pretend that every QB had a similar supporting cast.That said, I'm not sure it gets us far here. Rodgers had the deepest set of receivers in the league. Brady had Moss and Welker. Manning had Wayne and Harrison. Marino had the Marks brothers. Warner had Holt and Bruce and Faulk. Starr probably had the weakest supporting cast in terms of targets but he had some elite OL, RB, defensive players and coaches.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Here's a question that I'm not sure I know the answer to: Are Montana's and Young's accomplishments any less "great" considering they had probably the greatest WR of all time to throw to?

Certainly. You can't pretend that every QB had a similar supporting cast.That said, I'm not sure it gets us far here. Rodgers had the deepest set of receivers in the league. Brady had Moss and Welker. Manning had Wayne and Harrison. Marino had the Marks brothers. Warner had Holt and Bruce and Faulk. Starr probably had the weakest supporting cast in terms of targets but he had some elite OL, RB, defensive players and coaches.

Browning Nagle had Rob Moore and Chris Burkett.wait. wat?

 

[Time Kibitzer]

Here's a question that I'm not sure I know the answer to: Are Montana's and Young's accomplishments any less "great" considering they had probably the greatest WR of all time to throw to?

Are Rice's accomplishments any less "great" considering he had two of the greatest QBs of all time to throw to?Manning and Brady both had HOF-caliber receivers in their huge seasons.

I'm not suggesting that Montana or Young weren't all time greats, but if there's 2 QB's with near identical stats but one of them had the best WR of all time to throw to, are the stats not more impressive from the QB who didn't have the best WR of all time?

 

[Tau837]

Here's a question that I'm not sure I know the answer to: Are Montana's and Young's accomplishments any less "great" considering they had probably the greatest WR of all time to throw to?

Are Rice's accomplishments any less "great" considering he had two of the greatest QBs of all time to throw to?Manning and Brady both had HOF-caliber receivers in their huge seasons.

I'm not suggesting that Montana or Young weren't all time greats, but if there's 2 QB's with near identical stats but one of them had the best WR of all time to throw to, are the stats not more impressive from the QB who didn't have the best WR of all time?

It depends. Did the QB who didn't have the best WR of all time have elite teammates at WR (e.g., 2 elite WRs to counter the greatest WR of all time), TE, RB, OL? It can't be answered in a vacuum. For example, as I posted earlier, Montana 1989 and Young 1994 had Rice but no other HOF teammates on offense, whereas Warner had 4 potential HOF teammates on offense (Holt, Bruce, Pace, Faulk). I think that more than offsets.

 

[sn0mm1s]

It never ceases to amaze me how much credit people give QBs for victories, and how little they take into account defense, special teams, and luck.

Ditto that. Did we really just throw out arguably the four best QB seasons ever b/c the teams didn't win the SB?How many of the 10 best ever seasons by a RB led to a SB win? WRs? TEs? A QB has an outsized impact on a title, but he can't win the damn thing by himself.

No, they can't win it by themselves; but, out of every position on the field, they make by far the biggest impact and need the least amount of help to affect the game. This is true in both a positive and negative way. A QB might not be able to win a game by themselves but it is definitely possible for them to literally throw the game away. I mean, I can almost guarantee that Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger, Eli, Peyton, or Rodgers will be in the SB next year. I can't say the same for Peterson, Jones-Drew, McCoy, Charles, McFadden, Johnson, Gore, Rice etc. etc. or CJ, AJ, or Fitzgerald.

 

[Wadsworth]

It never ceases to amaze me how much credit people give QBs for victories, and how little they take into account defense, special teams, and luck.

Ditto that. Did we really just throw out arguably the four best QB seasons ever b/c the teams didn't win the SB?How many of the 10 best ever seasons by a RB led to a SB win? WRs? TEs? A QB has an outsized impact on a title, but he can't win the damn thing by himself.

I am right there with you. Teams win championships, not QBs.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

Here's a question that I'm not sure I know the answer to: Are Montana's and Young's accomplishments any less "great" considering they had probably the greatest WR of all time to throw to?

Are Rice's accomplishments any less "great" considering he had two of the greatest QBs of all time to throw to?Manning and Brady both had HOF-caliber receivers in their huge seasons.

I'm not suggesting that Montana or Young weren't all time greats, but if there's 2 QB's with near identical stats but one of them had the best WR of all time to throw to, are the stats not more impressive from the QB who didn't have the best WR of all time?

It depends. Did the QB who didn't have the best WR of all time have elite teammates at WR (e.g., 2 elite WRs to counter the greatest WR of all time), TE, RB, OL? It can't be answered in a vacuum. For example, as I posted earlier, Montana 1989 and Young 1994 had Rice but no other HOF teammates on offense, whereas Warner had 4 potential HOF teammates on offense (Holt, Bruce, Pace, Faulk). I think that more than offsets.

I don't disagree with anything you said, I'm just suggesting that it's something to consider. That's part of the reason why I think Marino gets the nod here, the overall talent on SF in that era was greater than the talent around Marino. Granted, I was pretty young back then so my memory could easily be faulty.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

It never ceases to amaze me how much credit people give QBs for victories, and how little they take into account defense, special teams, and luck.

Ditto that. Did we really just throw out arguably the four best QB seasons ever b/c the teams didn't win the SB?How many of the 10 best ever seasons by a RB led to a SB win? WRs? TEs? A QB has an outsized impact on a title, but he can't win the damn thing by himself.

No, they can't win it by themselves; but, out of every position on the field, they make by far the biggest impact and need the least amount of help to affect the game. This is true in both a positive and negative way. A QB might not be able to win a game by themselves but it is definitely possible for them to literally throw the game away. I mean, I can almost guarantee that Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger, Eli, Peyton, or Rodgers will be in the SB next year. I can't say the same for Peterson, Jones-Drew, McCoy, Charles, McFadden, Johnson, Gore, Rice etc. etc. or CJ, AJ, or Fitzgerald.

I can't imagine anybody disagreeing with the idea that QBs are the most important position, but they still aren't near important enough that they are completely deserving of all credit for wins and all discredit for losses, there's way more that goes into a game than QB play.