Green-Ellis, Michael Bush and Tolbert (1 Viewer)

[FGITLOTR]

Any word yet on Bush's visit to Cincy? As a Buah dynasty owner, I'm really hoping they work out a deal

 

[Apeman]

Any word yet on Bush's visit to Cincy? As a Buah dynasty owner, I'm really hoping they work out a deal

Rotoworld has him visiting Seattle tomorrow. I hope he leaves Ohio with a contract.

 

[David Yudkin]

FWIW, BJGE was interviewed at a hockey game over the weekend and indicated he would work out a new deal with the Pats eventually.

 

[FGITLOTR]

Why would Bush visit Seattle with Lynch on the roster? That just makes zero sense for everyone

 

[identikit]

Why would Bush visit Seattle with Lynch on the roster? That just makes zero sense for everyone

Maybe some teams in the NFL view him as more of a backup RB.

 

[FGITLOTR]

If teams think he's a backup, why not stay in Oakland because he's guaranteed to get a lot of PT with DMac's injury history

 

[identikit]

If teams think he's a backup, why not stay in Oakland because he's guaranteed to get a lot of PT with DMac's injury history

He probably thinks he should be a starter.

 

[flapgreen]

someone please explain what the Panthers are doing.

Cornering the rb market.

 

[bengalbuck]

Any word yet on Bush's visit to Cincy? As a Buah dynasty owner, I'm really hoping they work out a deal

Conflicting reports in Cincy as to whether he was there today and left or will be arriving tomorrow or whether he was there today and is staying thru tomorrow on a 2 day visit...I think there's a pretty good chance he ends up in Cincy and with a smaller/shorter-term contract than many expect. Something like 3 years, 10-12 million. I also think the Bengals would still address the position in the first 3 or 4 rounds of the draft. Ideally with a guy like Lamichael James, David Wilson, Doug Martin or Lamar Miller in the 2nd round. But they could also wait until later for a Ronnie Hillman, Isaiah Pead, Chris Rainey, etc. I would not be surprised if Bernard Scott is cut. He doesn't bring much to the table as a 3rd down type back because he can't block and just doesn't seem to understand the passing game. And he's not tough enough for more of a traditional RB role.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

The Jets have reportedly expressed interest in free agent RB BenJarvus Green-Ellis.It appears the Jets are Green-Ellis' "mystery team." However, the New York Post reports Gang Green's interest is "preliminary," and "nothing is imminent." Green-Ellis would be an interesting signing for a "ground and pound" team that nevertheless had trouble grinding out tough yards in 2011, but wouldn't be a suitable replacement for free agent third-down back LaDainian Tomlinson despite his skill in pass protection. BJGE has just 26 career catches.

 

[matttyl]

someone please explain what the Panthers are doing.

Cornering the rb market.

I keep seeing that Tolbert was signed to be a full-time FULLBACK, and likely should be in the base offense (21 personnel). With him there, I can easily see the Panther franchise having 2,700+ rushing yards and 30+ rushing TDs. This pie may yet be big enough to split a few different ways and keep everyone happy.

 

[FGITLOTR]

I have to imagine we hear something definitive about BJGE or Bush in the next day or two

 

[cvnpoka]

twitter abuzz about bjge to the bungles. lol, didnt think it was possible to actually downgrade from benson.

 

[DexterDew]

i would have never guessed that BJGE would find a home before Bush... who is Bush's agent and are they the ones mucking this up? which is a nice way to say does Bush think higher of himself than the market bears? Interesting

 

[David Yudkin]

twitter abuzz about bjge to the bungles. lol, didnt think it was possible to actually downgrade from benson.

BJGE done deal. Signed for 3 years. No other numbers yet.

 

[duaneok66]

wow - Bush may be back with Oakland.

 

[Steed]

This thread couldn't have gone any worse for dynasty owners

 

[SayWhat?]

This thread couldn't have gone any worse for dynasty owners

Tolbert - Completely Agree Green-Ellis - Completely DisagreeBush - TBD

 

[FGITLOTR]

Aside from Oakland, what are other possible landing spots for Bush? Man, he would be a wonderful compliment to Bradshaw in NY, but I don't think the G-men have any interest. I guess with DMac's propensity to get injured, resigning with the Raiders wouldn't be the end of the world. If he winds up on the Bears, I will not be a happy camper.

 

[Apeman]

Aside from Oakland, what are other possible landing spots for Bush? Man, he would be a wonderful compliment to Bradshaw in NY, but I don't think the G-men have any interest. I guess with DMac's propensity to get injured, resigning with the Raiders wouldn't be the end of the world. If he winds up on the Bears, I will not be a happy camper.

What a disappointment so far for Bush owners in keepers/dynasties. I was hoping for a real bargain in my auction keeper and had him pegged for Cincy the whole time. Pitt and Cleveland jump to mind as possible starting gigs, but I'm not getting my hopes up about either.

 

[duaneok66]

If he's asking for too much money, then Pitt and Cleveland won't bite.

 

[djmich]

Aside from Oakland, what are other possible landing spots for Bush? Man, he would be a wonderful compliment to Bradshaw in NY, but I don't think the G-men have any interest. I guess with DMac's propensity to get injured, resigning with the Raiders wouldn't be the end of the world. If he winds up on the Bears, I will not be a happy camper.

What a disappointment so far for Bush owners in keepers/dynasties. I was hoping for a real bargain in my auction keeper and had him pegged for Cincy the whole time. Pitt and Cleveland jump to mind as possible starting gigs, but I'm not getting my hopes up about either.

What about San Fran, they've got money it seems and Superbowl aspirations. Do they really want to bank on Kendall Hunter when Gore wears down.

 

[duaneok66]

I thought that everyone loved what Hunter brought to the table . . .

 

[Casting Couch]

Of these 3 the big Dynasty winner was : BJGE

Big Loser : Mike Tolbert

Unknown : Michael Bush

 

[zamboni]

Of these 3 the big Dynasty winner was : BJGEBig Loser : Mike TolbertUnknown : Michael Bush

Bush is obviously an unknown, but it seemed like a given that he would be the first one signed, and likely early as a starter.With few (if any) teams out there looking for a starting RB, I'd be surprised if goes anywhere where he won't just be a quality backup.

 

[FGITLOTR]

Of these 3 the big Dynasty winner was : BJGEBig Loser : Mike TolbertUnknown : Michael Bush

Bush is obviously an unknown, but it seemed like a given that he would be the first one signed, and likely early as a starter.With few (if any) teams out there looking for a starting RB, I'd be surprised if goes anywhere where he won't just be a quality backup.

Talk about perplexing! I realize he will be 28 this year, but he's a very solid all-around RB. At this point, Oakland has to be the favorite to resign him.

 

[Touchdown There]

There are a lot of Bush dynasty owners right now that are perplexed and disappointed. Oakland may be the favorite to re-sign him, but the Raiders showed last year that when McFadden is healthy they are going to give him the undisputed #1 role. They are also paying McFadden almost 6 million this season and he is signed until 2014. I really think that there are more good NFL RB's than there are open positions. Most teams realize they can get a guy in the second round of the draft for much less than what Bush will cost them.

 

[az_prof]

There are a lot of Bush dynasty owners right now that are perplexed and disappointed. Oakland may be the favorite to re-sign him, but the Raiders showed last year that when McFadden is healthy they are going to give him the undisputed #1 role. They are also paying McFadden almost 6 million this season and he is signed until 2014. I really think that there are more good NFL RB's than there are open positions. Most teams realize they can get a guy in the second round of the draft for much less than what Bush will cost them.

Agree that Oakland is looking like favorite to resign him. Also agree that McFadden is the primary carrier. But we now have enough experience of McFadden and his injuries to know that the split between him and Bush would be a lot more even than McFadden owners want to imagine. As important as McFadden's break away ability is, it does no good if he gets nicked up and misses important games late in the season. I expect McFadden to play on first downs; second and long; but Bush will play on second and short, third downs and inside the 5 yard line. That's my guess. Probably close to a 60/40 split. And Bush owners can look forward to 2-4 games where Bush starts because McFadden is gimpy.

 

[DexterDew]

and Bush signs with the Bears: 4 years for $14 Million

(sigh)

 

[duaneok66]

Wow.

There's your Forte insurance. Bye bye Barber (he should have BEEN gone).

 

[B Maverick]

bush is visiting Chi and Cinci and I think BGE is visiting CinciNot sure why anyone would want to pay Bush (28 or 29 year old) starters money. His best bet would be to stay in Oak. BGE would be good in Cinci I think

It's a good thing for bush that he didn't hire you to be his agent. He's currently 27 years old, although he will turn 28 before the season. If I were his agent, I'd be selling the fact he has low mileage due to the broken leg he suffered in college. The same broken leg that cost him a legit shot at the Heisman, and his senior year. It also Dropped his draft stock from a potential top 10 pick to the first pick in the 4th round. (100th overall). He also spent his rookie year on PUP recovering from the injury. Before he got an opportunity to play a game in the pros, the Raiders used the 4th pick in the draft on McFadden. I'd also sell the fact that he's the best free agent RB on the market, and has surprisingly nimble feet and soft hands for a big man. Finally, I'd be want a 5 year deal, but accept one that's really structured for 2-3 years.

yeah good thing his agent got 4 years 12 mill....just sayin

 

[Apeman]

And the big dreams of Bush owner crash into the rocks as he ends up with the same value he had in Oakland. Probably less, considering the probability of a DMC injury.

Forte takes a reasonable hit as well, and maybe the big winner here is McFadden. Unless the Raiders bring in another back, he's looking like he'll be featured. No way they're giving a big cut to Taiwan.

I wonder how long he'll hold up?

 

[duaneok66]

That puts a wrap on this thread

the Law Firm could be a factor next year, the other two - not so much.

 

[Kitrick Taylor]

I'd say Tolbert is dead in the water barring a trade. DWill, Stewart and Newton is an awful lot to compete with.

Law Firm did find the best landing spot, but one really has to wonder if they'll be drafting somebody in the first few rounds.

Bush obviously didn't end up in anywhere near an ideal situation. However, I do think the Bears will use him enough to be a fantasy RB3. As was mentioned in the other thread, Bush has been much better at the goal line than Forte. He's also far superior to Barber and Chester Taylor when they were with the Bears. I also think there's a decent chance Forte ends up holding out until September. Best guess in March: 150/625/6. 32/300/1 Low end RB2, high end RB3.

 

[DexterDew]

if we had to make a guess about who was the winner, i would say:

BJGE

Bush

Tolbert

I could see CIN and CHI drafting a RB, and if CAR drafts one, my head will explode.

as for your rosy projections for Bush, well, you must be a Bush owner

 

[Kitrick Taylor]

if we had to make a guess about who was the winner, i would say:BJGEBushTolbertI could see CIN and CHI drafting a RB, and if CAR drafts one, my head will explode.as for your rosy projections for Bush, well, you must be a Bush owner

They gave Chester Taylor 112 carries when he averaged 2.4 yards/carry. He also caught 20 passes that year. (2010)Last year Marion Barber got 114 carries in 11 games. He scored 6 TDs in those 11 games as well. Barber finished as RB44 in just 11 games. A full slate of games at that pace would have put him at RB31.Bush is a far better receiver than Barber, and a far better RB than both Taylor and Barber were at those points in their careers. Barber was on pace for 165 carries. I projected 150 for Bush. Barber was on pace for 9TDs, I projected 6 for Bush. (Barber only had additional carries in one game due to Forte's injury before he suffered his own.)That doesn't even factor that this offense was coordinated by Mike Martz last season, and will now be coordinated by Tice. I think my projection is pretty solid.

 

[cstu]

if we had to make a guess about who was the winner, i would say:

BJGE

Bush

Tolbert

I could see CIN and CHI drafting a RB, and if CAR drafts one, my head will explode.

as for your rosy projections for Bush, well, you must be a Bush owner

They gave Chester Taylor 112 carries when he averaged 2.4 yards/carry. He also caught 20 passes that year. (2010)Last year Marion Barber got 114 carries in 11 games. He scored 6 TDs in those 11 games as well. Barber finished as RB44 in just 11 games. A full slate of games at that pace would have put him at RB31.

Bush is a far better receiver than Barber, and a far better RB than both Taylor and Barber were at those points in their careers. Barber was on pace for 165 carries. I projected 150 for Bush. Barber was on pace for 9TDs, I projected 6 for Bush. (Barber only had additional carries in one game due to Forte's injury before he suffered his own.)

That doesn't even factor that this offense was coordinated by Mike Martz last season, and will now be coordinated by Tice.

Barber only had 52 carries in the 11 games Forte was healthy.

 

[Kitrick Taylor]

if we had to make a guess about who was the winner, i would say:

BJGE

Bush

Tolbert

I could see CIN and CHI drafting a RB, and if CAR drafts one, my head will explode.

as for your rosy projections for Bush, well, you must be a Bush owner

They gave Chester Taylor 112 carries when he averaged 2.4 yards/carry. He also caught 20 passes that year. (2010)Last year Marion Barber got 114 carries in 11 games. He scored 6 TDs in those 11 games as well. Barber finished as RB44 in just 11 games. A full slate of games at that pace would have put him at RB31.

Bush is a far better receiver than Barber, and a far better RB than both Taylor and Barber were at those points in their careers. Barber was on pace for 165 carries. I projected 150 for Bush. Barber was on pace for 9TDs, I projected 6 for Bush. (Barber only had additional carries in one game due to Forte's injury before he suffered his own.)

That doesn't even factor that this offense was coordinated by Mike Martz last season, and will now be coordinated by Tice.

Barber only had 52 carries in the 11 games Forte was healthy.

That couldn't be possibly more misleading. 1. Its actually 62 carries in the games they were both healthy (weeks 4-11).

2. They both played 8 games together.

3. Barber scored 6 TDs in those 8 games.

4. Barber totaled 6 carries in the first two of their games together. (weeks 4 and 5) Barber missed weeks 1-3 with injury. Not too much of a stretch to assume he was being used lightly for the first two weeks coming back from injury.

5. After week 5, he averaged 9.3 carries/game (with Forte) putting him on pace for 150 on the season. Exactly the number of carries I have projected for Bush.

If you give Bush 9-10 carries per game and 2 catches per game along with the goal line looks, he's going to be one of the top 30 RBs.

His career average is 4.2 ypc. 150 carries x 4.2 = 630 yards. His career avg/reception is 9.7. 32 receptions x 9.7 = 310 yards.

As someone else posted: in the last 2 years, Bush has scored 13TDs from inside the 5 yard line. Forte? 1.

I'll stand by my projection. 150/625/6. 32/300/1 Low end RB2, high end RB3

 

[Faust]

BenJarvus Green-Ellis: Bengals to use Green-Ellis as workhorse?

According to Pro Football Weekly, BenJarvus Green-Ellis is expected to get the majority of carries in the Bengals' offense.



Green-Ellis averaged 12.8 carries in his final two seasons with the Patriots, and could get a workload similar to what he had in New England. Former sixth-round pick Bernard Scott projects to see an increased role on offense, but has yet to prove he's capable of being anything other than a complementary player.

Mar. 24 - 7:06 pm et

Source: Pro Football Weekly

 

[cstu]

if we had to make a guess about who was the winner, i would say:

BJGE

Bush

Tolbert

I could see CIN and CHI drafting a RB, and if CAR drafts one, my head will explode.

as for your rosy projections for Bush, well, you must be a Bush owner

They gave Chester Taylor 112 carries when he averaged 2.4 yards/carry. He also caught 20 passes that year. (2010)Last year Marion Barber got 114 carries in 11 games. He scored 6 TDs in those 11 games as well. Barber finished as RB44 in just 11 games. A full slate of games at that pace would have put him at RB31.

Bush is a far better receiver than Barber, and a far better RB than both Taylor and Barber were at those points in their careers. Barber was on pace for 165 carries. I projected 150 for Bush. Barber was on pace for 9TDs, I projected 6 for Bush. (Barber only had additional carries in one game due to Forte's injury before he suffered his own.)

That doesn't even factor that this offense was coordinated by Mike Martz last season, and will now be coordinated by Tice.

Barber only had 52 carries in the 11 games Forte was healthy.

That couldn't be possibly more misleading. 1. Its actually 62 carries in the games they were both healthy (weeks 4-11).

2. They both played 8 games together.

3. Barber scored 6 TDs in those 8 games.

4. Barber totaled 6 carries in the first two of their games together. (weeks 4 and 5) Barber missed weeks 1-3 with injury. Not too much of a stretch to assume he was being used lightly for the first two weeks coming back from injury.

5. After week 5, he averaged 9.3 carries/game (with Forte) putting him on pace for 150 on the season. Exactly the number of carries I have projected for Bush.

If you give Bush 9-10 carries per game and 2 catches per game along with the goal line looks, he's going to be one of the top 30 RBs.

His career average is 4.2 ypc. 150 carries x 4.2 = 630 yards. His career avg/reception is 9.7. 32 receptions x 9.7 = 310 yards.

As someone else posted: in the last 2 years, Bush has scored 13TDs from inside the 5 yard line. Forte? 1.

I'll stand by my projection. 150/625/6. 32/300/1 Low end RB2, high end RB3

Thanks for clearing that up for me. 9 carries a game does seem reasonable but the receptions seem on the high end (was thinking 20-25).

 

[Faust]

Bengals add RB Green-Ellis

Posted March 22, 2012 @ 4:20 p.m. ET

By PFW staff

Updated March 22, 2012 @ 4:49 p.m. ET

The Bengals have added a new piece to their offense, agreeing on Wednesday to a three-year deal with RB BenJarvus Green-Ellis. Financial terms were not announced.

"BenJarvus is a no-nonsense runner who consistently gets the ball down the field, and he has a nose for the endzone," Bengals RB coach Jim Anderson said. "He's also an asset to the passing game, not only as a receiver but as a blocker. More than all that, he's the kind of guy who comes to work hard every day, a great team player and a great addition for us."

Green-Ellis likely will take the starting job from Cedric Benson, who is an unrestricted free agent.

The primary starting running back for the Patriots the past two years, Green-Ellis has gained 2,064 rushing yards in his career on 510 carries for a 4.0-yard average. He's also scored 29 touchdowns and has never fumbled in four NFL seasons, with 536 touches to his credit.

The way we see it

Look for Green-Ellis and Bernard Scott to get the majority of the carries unless a rookie is added. With three picks in the first two rounds, the Bengals have the flexibility to add a well-regarded back early on, but the need is less acute following the addition of Green-Ellis.

Fantasy spin

Bill Walsh created the West Coast offense, and a prerequisite was a dual-threat running back who could take a short pass — an extension of a handoff — and work his magic. Roger Craig was the first of many to help revolutionize the RB position. Why do I bring this up? BenJarvus Green-Ellis has hands of stone, if you look at his statistics, and is a one-dimensional back — a bad fit in this system, much as Cedric Benson was last year.

In four seasons with the Patriots, Green-Ellis amassed a grand total of 26 receptions, and some will say the Bengals signed a younger version of Benson. That doesn't mean Green-Ellis has no fantasy value, as the AFC North is a physical division with the Ravens and Steelers. Green-Ellis, at 5-11, 215 pounds, should be able to handle it, and he will share touches with Bernard Scott.

Last season Green-Ellis totaled 181-667-11 rushing and 9-159-0 receiving but dealt with a toe injury that hampered him in the second half of the season. He's a TD machine, with 24 the past two seasons combined, and will have a similar role with the Bengals. His career stat line in 53 games is 510-2,064-29 rushing and 26-292-0 receiving — a per-game average of 44.5 yards from scrimmage and 0.55 TDs. More impressive is that he's yet to fumble in the NFL and obviously protects the ball very well.

The team also wants to increase Scott's role, so he'll cut into Green-Ellis' touches, and it may still draft another back. Green-Ellis' value is unknown if that happens, but right now he's best-suited as a flex-position fantasy back on rosters based on his ability to score TDs.

 

[Tau837]

if we had to make a guess about who was the winner, i would say:

BJGE

Bush

Tolbert

I could see CIN and CHI drafting a RB, and if CAR drafts one, my head will explode.

as for your rosy projections for Bush, well, you must be a Bush owner

They gave Chester Taylor 112 carries when he averaged 2.4 yards/carry. He also caught 20 passes that year. (2010)Last year Marion Barber got 114 carries in 11 games. He scored 6 TDs in those 11 games as well. Barber finished as RB44 in just 11 games. A full slate of games at that pace would have put him at RB31.

Bush is a far better receiver than Barber, and a far better RB than both Taylor and Barber were at those points in their careers. Barber was on pace for 165 carries. I projected 150 for Bush. Barber was on pace for 9TDs, I projected 6 for Bush. (Barber only had additional carries in one game due to Forte's injury before he suffered his own.)

That doesn't even factor that this offense was coordinated by Mike Martz last season, and will now be coordinated by Tice.

Barber only had 52 carries in the 11 games Forte was healthy.

That couldn't be possibly more misleading. 1. Its actually 62 carries in the games they were both healthy (weeks 4-11).

2. They both played 8 games together.

3. Barber scored 6 TDs in those 8 games.

4. Barber totaled 6 carries in the first two of their games together. (weeks 4 and 5) Barber missed weeks 1-3 with injury. Not too much of a stretch to assume he was being used lightly for the first two weeks coming back from injury.

5. After week 5, he averaged 9.3 carries/game (with Forte) putting him on pace for 150 on the season. Exactly the number of carries I have projected for Bush.

If you give Bush 9-10 carries per game and 2 catches per game along with the goal line looks, he's going to be one of the top 30 RBs.

His career average is 4.2 ypc. 150 carries x 4.2 = 630 yards. His career avg/reception is 9.7. 32 receptions x 9.7 = 310 yards.

As someone else posted: in the last 2 years, Bush has scored 13TDs from inside the 5 yard line. Forte? 1.

I'll stand by my projection. 150/625/6. 32/300/1 Low end RB2, high end RB3

Good info here. However, assuming Forte doesn't hold out and remains healthy:1. IMO you are too high on the receptions for Bush. 20-25 seems more realistic.

2. I also think your ypc is likely a bit high. In games in which Bush had fewer than 14 carries in his career, he has averaged 3.52 ypc. Counting those games over just the past two seasons for recency bumps the average to 3.69 ypc. He isn't going to be a workhorse with Forte being the primary RB, and, in fact, he will likely get a disproportionate share of short yardage carries, which could hold his ypc down.

Something like 150/580/5 and 22/180/0 looks more realistic to me. 760/5 would not be a low end RB2, it would be a low end RB3.

 

[doubletrouble]

Bengals coach Marvin Lewis said Sunday that he envisions BenJarvus Green-Ellis as possessing the ability to be a "three-down player.""His versatility. His abilty to catch. To protect ... He does it all," Lewis said. "He makes people miss. He’s shown the versatility to do all the things you’re looking for in that guy and he can be a three-down player if he needs to be." The Bengals won't count on Green-Ellis to be a true workhorse, but they believe he can do it if injuries strike. Look for BJGE to be a 12-15 touch-per-game back in Cincy.

So the coach says he can envision BJGE is a workhorse but the writer for Rotoworld says no...gotta love it

 

[djmich]

Bengals coach Marvin Lewis said Sunday that he envisions BenJarvus Green-Ellis as possessing the ability to be a "three-down player.""His versatility. His abilty to catch. To protect ... He does it all," Lewis said. "He makes people miss. He’s shown the versatility to do all the things you’re looking for in that guy and he can be a three-down player if he needs to be." The Bengals won't count on Green-Ellis to be a true workhorse, but they believe he can do it if injuries strike. Look for BJGE to be a 12-15 touch-per-game back in Cincy.

So the coach says he can envision BJGE is a workhorse but the writer for Rotoworld says no...gotta love it

Roto has their biases for sure, but in their defense Lewis did say he can be a three down player "if he needs to be". That means to me they'd prefer he's not. Doesn't mean he wont get the majority of carries.

 

[zamboni]

I love the way BJGE runs - as hard as anyone in the league. Almost moving forward, never fumbles - basically what a smash-mouth running team wants.

That said, I can't help but think that BJGE's limited weapon set is going to be exposed somewhat this year, when he doesn't have running lanes opened like he did with Brady in front of him.