Gruber, Pelosi, Reid, Obama and the Transparency Gang of Four (1 Viewer)

[SaintsInDome2006]

To be quite honest, it's hard for me to come up with any President in the past who was more qualified going in.

Wait, what?

Maybe he doesn't know a President who was a Community Organizer isn't the norm...

But what is the norm? Most of our Presidents have been governors of states. It's thought that this is similar and gives one a resume of executive authority. I've always felt this was way overstated, because it's so limited to domestic and regional concerns. So being governor has never meant much to me.

Moved the goalposts a little there, no?

What you said - Hillary was a First Lady (but not like Nancy Reagan or Jackie Kennedy. You know, she actually was allowed to speak sometimes), she was a Senator and sat on committees in the Senate and she was the Secretary of State and did, you know, Secretary of State things. Oh yeah, she ran a law firm too.

Now you add - and oh, by the way, being a Governor doesn't really mean anything to me. Because, you know, running a law firm and then one executive department is harder then running a state.

Am I with you so far?

What I recall:

• Rose Law Firm - Whitewater insider land deal, followed by claims that billing records were disappeared then.... whoops then an aide (maid?) finds them in a White House closet
• First Lady of AR - develops fake Southern accent which she no longer uses, joins board of Wal Mart where she gets paid for ... just being on the board. Garsh that's funny, WalMart was paying the governor's wife? That's handy.
• First Lady of USA - Stand By Your Man, convenes health panel... which has secret proceedings and participants. Rancor infests the health care issue which lasts to this day. When her husband is caught lying repeatedly about his own affairs, she blames 'vast right wing conspiracy'
• Senator - no serious legislation sponsored (any?). Makes important speech vouchsafing intelligence about Iraq WMD. Later she admits having never read the intel report.
• Presidential Candidate 1 - does "listening tour" so she can run for president while not really running. Is tone deaf, acts like a front runner, misses the boat, brings up Tony Rezko, brings up Jeremiah Wright, derides MLK, calls Obama a "fairy tale," then cries in desperation.
• Sec of State - Benghazi hearing. Has a shrill outburst where she shreaks 'what does it matter' about a foreign policy tragedy in which Americans were killed, while positing the false alternative of spontaneous protest or anger over a movie, neither of which prove true.

 

[timschochet]

To be quite honest, it's hard for me to come up with any President in the past who was more qualified going in.

Wait, what?

Maybe he doesn't know a President who was a Community Organizer isn't the norm...

But what is the norm? Most of our Presidents have been governors of states. It's thought that this is similar and gives one a resume of executive authority. I've always felt this was way overstated, because it's so limited to domestic and regional concerns. So being governor has never meant much to me.

Moved the goalposts a little there, no?

What you said - Hillary was a First Lady (but not like Nancy Reagan or Jackie Kennedy. You know, she actually was allowed to speak sometimes), she was a Senator and sat on committees in the Senate and she was the Secretary of State and did, you know, Secretary of State things. Oh yeah, she ran a law firm too.

Now you add - and oh, by the way, being a Governor doesn't really mean anything to me. Because, you know, running a law firm and then one executive department is harder then running a state.

Am I with you so far?

No, you're the one suggesting apples to apples comparisons, which I am not doing. I brought up the law firm in order to show that she does have some executive experience. Obviously a governor has much more executive experience. But I don't regard executive experience to be a main factor- UNLESS you have questions in your mind about whether or not a person can exert leadership and authority. If that's a reasonable question between two candidates, then executive experience can and probably should be decisive. But clearly Hillary, as even her detractors will admit, is a decision maker and exerts authority. So the priority should be other things, like experience with national and international affairs.

 

[timschochet]

Hillary is clearly more qualified than Washington ever was. Far more qualified than Lincoln. I don't know what we were thinking.

Her resume is clearly better than either one. Would she make a better President than those guys? Extremely unlikely. But that's not what we're talking about. One of our greatest Presidents ever was Harry Truman, who didn't even have a college degree, and was one of the least qualified. Jimmy Carter and Woodrow Wilson were two of the most qualified, and two of the worst Presidents IMO. Qualified does not equal good.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

To be quite honest, it's hard for me to come up with any President in the past who was more qualified going in.

Wait, what?

Maybe he doesn't know a President who was a Community Organizer isn't the norm...

But what is the norm? Most of our Presidents have been governors of states. It's thought that this is similar and gives one a resume of executive authority. I've always felt this was way overstated, because it's so limited to domestic and regional concerns. So being governor has never meant much to me.

Moved the goalposts a little there, no?

What you said - Hillary was a First Lady (but not like Nancy Reagan or Jackie Kennedy. You know, she actually was allowed to speak sometimes), she was a Senator and sat on committees in the Senate and she was the Secretary of State and did, you know, Secretary of State things. Oh yeah, she ran a law firm too.

Now you add - and oh, by the way, being a Governor doesn't really mean anything to me. Because, you know, running a law firm and then one executive department is harder then running a state.

Am I with you so far?

No, you're the one suggesting apples to apples comparisons, which I am not doing. I brought up the law firm in order to show that she does have some executive experience. Obviously a governor has much more executive experience. But I don't regard executive experience to be a main factor- UNLESS you have questions in your mind about whether or not a person can exert leadership and authority. If that's a reasonable question between two candidates, then executive experience can and probably should be decisive. But clearly Hillary, as even her detractors will admit, is a decision maker and exerts authority. So the priority should be other things, like experience with national and international affairs.

Good one.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_I3Q1kT0tz2A/ScAGLDqpiVI/AAAAAAAAC2M/ilLduV1vMhw/s400/Clinton%20Reset%20Button.jpg

 

[timschochet]

To be quite honest, it's hard for me to come up with any President in the past who was more qualified going in.

Wait, what?

Maybe he doesn't know a President who was a Community Organizer isn't the norm...

But what is the norm? Most of our Presidents have been governors of states. It's thought that this is similar and gives one a resume of executive authority. I've always felt this was way overstated, because it's so limited to domestic and regional concerns. So being governor has never meant much to me.

Moved the goalposts a little there, no?

What you said - Hillary was a First Lady (but not like Nancy Reagan or Jackie Kennedy. You know, she actually was allowed to speak sometimes), she was a Senator and sat on committees in the Senate and she was the Secretary of State and did, you know, Secretary of State things. Oh yeah, she ran a law firm too.

Now you add - and oh, by the way, being a Governor doesn't really mean anything to me. Because, you know, running a law firm and then one executive department is harder then running a state.

Am I with you so far?

What I recall:

• Rose Law Firm - Whitewater insider land deal, followed by claims that billing records were disappeared then.... whoops then an aide (maid?) finds them in a White House closet
• First Lady of AR - develops fake Southern accent which she no longer uses, joins board of Wal Mart where she gets paid for ... just being on the board. Garsh that's funny, WalMart was paying the governor's wife? That's handy.
• First Lady of USA - Stand By Your Man, convenes health panel... which has secret proceedings and participants. Rancor infests the health care issue which lasts to this day. When her husband is caught lying repeatedly about his own affairs, she blames 'vast right wing conspiracy'
• Senator - no serious legislation sponsored (any?). Makes important speech vouchsafing intelligence about Iraq WMD. Later she admits having never read the intel report.
• Presidential Candidate 1 - does "listening tour" so she can run for president while not really running. Is tone deaf, acts like a front runner, misses the boat, brings up Tony Rezko, brings up Jeremiah Wright, derides MLK, calls Obama a "fairy tale," then cries in desperation.
• Sec of State - Benghazi hearing. Has a shrill outburst where she shreaks 'what does it matter' about a foreign policy tragedy in which Americans were killed, while positing the false alternative of spontaneous protest or anger over a movie, neither of which prove true.

What does any of this have to do with anything that I wrote?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

To be quite honest, it's hard for me to come up with any President in the past who was more qualified going in.

Wait, what?

Maybe he doesn't know a President who was a Community Organizer isn't the norm...

But what is the norm? Most of our Presidents have been governors of states. It's thought that this is similar and gives one a resume of executive authority. I've always felt this was way overstated, because it's so limited to domestic and regional concerns. So being governor has never meant much to me.

Moved the goalposts a little there, no?

What you said - Hillary was a First Lady (but not like Nancy Reagan or Jackie Kennedy. You know, she actually was allowed to speak sometimes), she was a Senator and sat on committees in the Senate and she was the Secretary of State and did, you know, Secretary of State things. Oh yeah, she ran a law firm too.

Now you add - and oh, by the way, being a Governor doesn't really mean anything to me. Because, you know, running a law firm and then one executive department is harder then running a state.

Am I with you so far?

What I recall:

• Rose Law Firm - Whitewater insider land deal, followed by claims that billing records were disappeared then.... whoops then an aide (maid?) finds them in a White House closet
• First Lady of AR - develops fake Southern accent which she no longer uses, joins board of Wal Mart where she gets paid for ... just being on the board. Garsh that's funny, WalMart was paying the governor's wife? That's handy.
• First Lady of USA - Stand By Your Man, convenes health panel... which has secret proceedings and participants. Rancor infests the health care issue which lasts to this day. When her husband is caught lying repeatedly about his own affairs, she blames 'vast right wing conspiracy'
• Senator - no serious legislation sponsored (any?). Makes important speech vouchsafing intelligence about Iraq WMD. Later she admits having never read the intel report.
• Presidential Candidate 1 - does "listening tour" so she can run for president while not really running. Is tone deaf, acts like a front runner, misses the boat, brings up Tony Rezko, brings up Jeremiah Wright, derides MLK, calls Obama a "fairy tale," then cries in desperation.
• Sec of State - Benghazi hearing. Has a shrill outburst where she shreaks 'what does it matter' about a foreign policy tragedy in which Americans were killed, while positing the false alternative of spontaneous protest or anger over a movie, neither of which prove true.

What does any of this have to do with anything that I wrote?

it's hard for me to come up with any President in the past who was more qualified going in

It seems to me her qualifications have come in the field of deception and division. The posts are one thing, what she did in them is another.

ETA - it's also apropos to the "Transparency" theme of the thread.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Hillary is clearly more qualified than Washington ever was. Far more qualified than Lincoln. I don't know what we were thinking.

Her resume is clearly better than either one. Would she make a better President than those guys? Extremely unlikely. But that's not what we're talking about. One of our greatest Presidents ever was Harry Truman, who didn't even have a college degree, and was one of the least qualified. Jimmy Carter and Woodrow Wilson were two of the most qualified, and two of the worst Presidents IMO. Qualified does not equal good.

All of those guys, all of them, had extensive careers and were self-made men. Play it however you like but Hillary got where she did because she was married to Bill Clinton.

 

[timschochet]

Saints, I could go point by point and refute each one of your claims. Frankly it bores me so I won't bother. Besides I'll never convince you anyhow. Let's put it this way: I can't think of any public political figure in my lifetime who has had to face more false charges against her than Hillary Clinton- and that includes her husband, George W. Bush, and our current President. So many books have been written about the terrible things Hillary has done, none of them with a hint of proof. Personally, I don't believe she's at all guilty of any of things you're accusing her of.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Saints, I could go point by point and refute each one of your claims. Frankly it bores me so I won't bother. Besides I'll never convince you anyhow. Let's put it this way: I can't think of any public political figure in my lifetime who has had to face more false charges against her than Hillary Clinton- and that includes her husband, George W. Bush, and our current President. So many books have been written about the terrible things Hillary has done, none of them with a hint of proof. Personally, I don't believe she's at all guilty of any of things you're accusing her of.

Oh please, they all get false charges, if Hillary gets elected president she will have more true charges than any of them however. (Well, since Nixon).

 

[timschochet]

Hillary is clearly more qualified than Washington ever was. Far more qualified than Lincoln. I don't know what we were thinking.

Her resume is clearly better than either one. Would she make a better President than those guys? Extremely unlikely. But that's not what we're talking about. One of our greatest Presidents ever was Harry Truman, who didn't even have a college degree, and was one of the least qualified. Jimmy Carter and Woodrow Wilson were two of the most qualified, and two of the worst Presidents IMO. Qualified does not equal good.

All of those guys, all of them, had extensive careers and were self-made men. Play it however you like but Hillary got where she did because she was married to Bill Clinton.

Originally yes. But that advantage got old a long long time ago. She didn't get elected and re-elected as Senator and appointed as SoS because of a marriage.

 

[timschochet]

By the way, just for the record: I do like Hillary Clinton, but if she doesn't change her mind on nuclear energy expansion I'm going to have trouble voting for her. To me there's no more important issue.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Hillary is clearly more qualified than Washington ever was. Far more qualified than Lincoln. I don't know what we were thinking.

Her resume is clearly better than either one. Would she make a better President than those guys? Extremely unlikely. But that's not what we're talking about. One of our greatest Presidents ever was Harry Truman, who didn't even have a college degree, and was one of the least qualified. Jimmy Carter and Woodrow Wilson were two of the most qualified, and two of the worst Presidents IMO. Qualified does not equal good.

All of those guys, all of them, had extensive careers and were self-made men. Play it however you like but Hillary got where she did because she was married to Bill Clinton.

Originally yes. But that advantage got old a long long time ago. She didn't get elected and re-elected as Senator and appointed as SoS because of a marriage.

Tim, she got elected in the super-safe NY State as the anointed Democratic candidate and the wife of a popular president. And she ran against a couple tomato cans.

 

[TheAristocrat]

Hillary is clearly more qualified than Washington ever was. Far more qualified than Lincoln. I don't know what we were thinking.

Her resume is clearly better than either one. Would she make a better President than those guys? Extremely unlikely. But that's not what we're talking about. One of our greatest Presidents ever was Harry Truman, who didn't even have a college degree, and was one of the least qualified. Jimmy Carter and Woodrow Wilson were two of the most qualified, and two of the worst Presidents IMO. Qualified does not equal good.

All of those guys, all of them, had extensive careers and were self-made men. Play it however you like but Hillary got where she did because she was married to Bill Clinton.

Originally yes. But that advantage got old a long long time ago. She didn't get elected and re-elected as Senator and appointed as SoS because of a marriage.

Ummm...yeah, she did. Even a vote for her for President would generally be a vote for Bill in the White House.

 

[timschochet]

She also has a really annoying laugh. Have you guys heard it? I mean REALLY annoying.

 

[RCon]

Hillary is clearly more qualified than Washington ever was. Far more qualified than Lincoln. I don't know what we were thinking.

Her resume is clearly better than either one. Would she make a better President than those guys? Extremely unlikely. But that's not what we're talking about. One of our greatest Presidents ever was Harry Truman, who didn't even have a college degree, and was one of the least qualified. Jimmy Carter and Woodrow Wilson were two of the most qualified, and two of the worst Presidents IMO. Qualified does not equal good.

All of those guys, all of them, had extensive careers and were self-made men. Play it however you like but Hillary got where she did because she was married to Bill Clinton.

Originally yes. But that advantage got old a long long time ago. She didn't get elected and re-elected as Senator and appointed as SoS because of a marriage.

OK, now you're just being silly. Without the name recognition of having been married to Bill, there was zero chance she gets elected as Senator of New York.

 

[squistion]

GospelPanacea ‏@GospelPanacea

Pelosi cant remember #Gruber. But do you know who can? #Romney. Romney LOVES Gruber https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcBjRfZO7QE …

 

[tommyboy]

Hillary's only qualification in this particular election is that she has a ###### and is a Democrat. Oh and Bill Clinton is her husband...

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

So many books have been written about the terrible things Hillary has done, none of them with a hint of proof.

Let's stick to political transparency.

Hillary survived Whitewater because Tucker (who eventually went to jail on fraud charges as governor of AR), Susan McDougal (wife of Jim McDougal, convicted of fraud) and Web Hubbell (convicted of fraud) refused to testify. Not because they refused to adopt the US Attorneys' story, but because they refused to testify, period.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

GospelPanacea ‏@GospelPanacea

Pelosi cant remember #Gruber. But do you know who can? #Romney. Romney LOVES Gruber https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcBjRfZO7QE …

Gruber talked about what went down in MA. It's true, someone should ask Romney because he was part of the fraud.

 

[timschochet]

Hillary is clearly more qualified than Washington ever was. Far more qualified than Lincoln. I don't know what we were thinking.

Her resume is clearly better than either one. Would she make a better President than those guys? Extremely unlikely. But that's not what we're talking about. One of our greatest Presidents ever was Harry Truman, who didn't even have a college degree, and was one of the least qualified. Jimmy Carter and Woodrow Wilson were two of the most qualified, and two of the worst Presidents IMO. Qualified does not equal good.

All of those guys, all of them, had extensive careers and were self-made men. Play it however you like but Hillary got where she did because she was married to Bill Clinton.

Originally yes. But that advantage got old a long long time ago. She didn't get elected and re-elected as Senator and appointed as SoS because of a marriage.

OK, now you're just being silly. Without the name recognition of having been married to Bill, there was zero chance she gets elected as Senator of New York.

Sure. But are you suggesting that they just voted for her blindly both times, without any consideration of her views, policies, and experience? I'm not real big on the collective intelligence of voters, but you're taking that to a new (low) level.

 

[RCon]

Hillary is clearly more qualified than Washington ever was. Far more qualified than Lincoln. I don't know what we were thinking.

Her resume is clearly better than either one. Would she make a better President than those guys? Extremely unlikely. But that's not what we're talking about. One of our greatest Presidents ever was Harry Truman, who didn't even have a college degree, and was one of the least qualified. Jimmy Carter and Woodrow Wilson were two of the most qualified, and two of the worst Presidents IMO. Qualified does not equal good.

All of those guys, all of them, had extensive careers and were self-made men. Play it however you like but Hillary got where she did because she was married to Bill Clinton.

Originally yes. But that advantage got old a long long time ago. She didn't get elected and re-elected as Senator and appointed as SoS because of a marriage.

OK, now you're just being silly. Without the name recognition of having been married to Bill, there was zero chance she gets elected as Senator of New York.

Sure. But are you suggesting that they just voted for her blindly both times, without any consideration of her views, policies, and experience? I'm not real big on the collective intelligence of voters, but you're taking that to a new (low) level.

It's New York. The voters blindly vote for whoever has the D next to their name. She became the D candidate by virtue of being married to Bill. By round 2, she was the D candidate, had the name recognition, and had the advantage of being the incumbent. So, yeah, she never becomes Senator had she not been married to Bill. To think otherwise is incredibly naive.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Hillary is clearly more qualified than Washington ever was. Far more qualified than Lincoln. I don't know what we were thinking.

Her resume is clearly better than either one. Would she make a better President than those guys? Extremely unlikely. But that's not what we're talking about. One of our greatest Presidents ever was Harry Truman, who didn't even have a college degree, and was one of the least qualified. Jimmy Carter and Woodrow Wilson were two of the most qualified, and two of the worst Presidents IMO. Qualified does not equal good.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

It's New York. The voters blindly vote for whoever has the D next to their name. She became the D candidate by virtue of being married to Bill. By round 2, she was the D candidate, had the name recognition, and had the advantage of being the incumbent. So, yeah, she never becomes Senator had she not been married to Bill. To think otherwise is incredibly naive.

Lots of presidents and almost-presidents (Al Gore, George W. Bush, Mitt Romney, etc.) got a huge leg up by being children of prominent politicians. I'm not sure how different that is than getting a leg up by being the wife of a prominent politician.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I will say this for Bill Clinton - the man came from very little, his dad died in a car wreck on the way down to set up their new home when Bill was a baby. Bill rose up from an abusive childhood to become one of the great political figures of our times.

Same for Barack Obama - dad doesn't even stick around for a cup of coffee, mother is itinerant, moves around including to flippin' Indonesia, dumps lil' Barry off when he's 11 with grandparents, and albeit he is raised in a privileged environment Obama uses his resourcefulness, brains, desire and great abilities to also become a great political figure.

Hillary is born into a wealthy, politically connected North Chicago suburban home, goes to the finest elite schools, marries a future political star. That's her rise.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

It's New York. The voters blindly vote for whoever has the D next to their name. She became the D candidate by virtue of being married to Bill. By round 2, she was the D candidate, had the name recognition, and had the advantage of being the incumbent. So, yeah, she never becomes Senator had she not been married to Bill. To think otherwise is incredibly naive.

Lots of presidents and almost-presidents (Al Gore, George W. Bush, Mitt Romney, etc.) got a huge leg up by being children of prominent politicians. I'm not sure how different that is than getting a leg up by being the wife of a prominent politician.

That's a really good lineup, I agree, but that ain't Wilson, Lincoln, and Truman. Quite the opposite.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

I will say this for Bill Clinton - the man came from very little, his dad died in a car wreck on the way down to set up their new home when Bill was a baby. Bill rose up from an abusive childhood to become one of the great political figures of our times.

Same for Barack Obama - dad doesn't even stick around for a cup of coffee, mother is itinerant, moves around including to flippin' Indonesia, dumps lil' Barry off when he's 11 with grandparents, and albeit he is raised in a privileged environment Obama uses his resourcefulness, brains, desire and great abilities to also become a great political figure.

Hillary is born into a wealthy, politically connected North Chicago suburban home, goes to the finest elite schools, marries a future political star. That's her rise.

Sig worthy.

 

[Boston]

Hillary is to politics what Brian Shottenheimer is to football...

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

It's New York. The voters blindly vote for whoever has the D next to their name. She became the D candidate by virtue of being married to Bill. By round 2, she was the D candidate, had the name recognition, and had the advantage of being the incumbent. So, yeah, she never becomes Senator had she not been married to Bill. To think otherwise is incredibly naive.

Lots of presidents and almost-presidents (Al Gore, George W. Bush, Mitt Romney, etc.) got a huge leg up by being children of prominent politicians. I'm not sure how different that is than getting a leg up by being the wife of a prominent politician.

That's a really good lineup, I agree, but that ain't Wilson, Lincoln, and Truman. Quite the opposite.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the argument you guys are making.

 

[RCon]

It's New York. The voters blindly vote for whoever has the D next to their name. She became the D candidate by virtue of being married to Bill. By round 2, she was the D candidate, had the name recognition, and had the advantage of being the incumbent. So, yeah, she never becomes Senator had she not been married to Bill. To think otherwise is incredibly naive.

Lots of presidents and almost-presidents (Al Gore, George W. Bush, Mitt Romney, etc.) got a huge leg up by being children of prominent politicians. I'm not sure how different that is than getting a leg up by being the wife of a prominent politician.

It's not.

 

[timschochet]

Also Britain's greatest prime minister would never have gotten to political office had he not been the grandson of a duke and the son of a famous statesman.

 

[timschochet]

Also the two most evil dictators ever came to dominate the 20th century after rising from even lower circumstances than Clinton or Lincoln.

 

[Black Box]

Also the two most evil dictators ever came to dominate the 20th century after rising from even lower circumstances than Clinton or Lincoln.

Lord Voldemort?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Also the two most evil dictators ever came to dominate the 20th century after rising from even lower circumstances than Clinton or Lincoln.

Hitler's dad was a bureaucrat (albeit an abusive one) and he had a doting (er, extremely) mother. Hard to compare the place and time but Adolf likely had it better than Bill Clinton and definitely better than Abe. Just my opinion of course.

Stalin came from utter third world poverty, but his dad was a shoemaker and he did get a private religious education, though he was a complete failure and got expelled. - I would take him out of it, he was a total psychopath and so was his father.

 

[squistion]

I will say this for Bill Clinton - the man came from very little, his dad died in a car wreck on the way down to set up their new home when Bill was a baby. Bill rose up from an abusive childhood to become one of the great political figures of our times.

Same for Barack Obama - dad doesn't even stick around for a cup of coffee, mother is itinerant, moves around including to flippin' Indonesia, dumps lil' Barry off when he's 11 with grandparents, and albeit he is raised in a privileged environment Obama uses his resourcefulness, brains, desire and great abilities to also become a great political figure.

Hillary is born into a wealthy, politically connected North Chicago suburban home, goes to the finest elite schools, marries a future political star. That's her rise.

So. FDR came from a wealthy, patrician family and was related to Teddy Roosevelt. JFK was also wealthy and had prominent politicians on both sides of his family. Hillary's background and upbringing is hardly a disqualifier as far as democrats are concerned.

 

[timschochet]

And Lane Kiffin never would have been a coach if not for his dad.

Hmmm

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I will say this for Bill Clinton - the man came from very little, his dad died in a car wreck on the way down to set up their new home when Bill was a baby. Bill rose up from an abusive childhood to become one of the great political figures of our times.

Same for Barack Obama - dad doesn't even stick around for a cup of coffee, mother is itinerant, moves around including to flippin' Indonesia, dumps lil' Barry off when he's 11 with grandparents, and albeit he is raised in a privileged environment Obama uses his resourcefulness, brains, desire and great abilities to also become a great political figure.

Hillary is born into a wealthy, politically connected North Chicago suburban home, goes to the finest elite schools, marries a future political star. That's her rise.

So. FDR came from a wealthy, patrician family and was related to Teddy Roosevelt. JFK was also wealthy and had prominent politicians on both sides of his family. Hillary's background and upbringing is hardly a disqualifier as far as democrats are concerned.

I didn't mean it as a disqualifier for Dems by any means. Frank was definitely born to the manor, but if you look at his career and Teddy's they were hard fought and self-made and they got elected on their own several times over and served in several posts on their own merit all the way. - Hillary was married to Bill, frankly that's how she got where she is.

 

[rockaction]

Ten minutes for Jon on Jon. That's bad, folks.

http://redalertpolitics.com/2014/11/19/jon-stewart-obamacare-architect-jonathan-gruber-super-egghead/

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Ten minutes for Jon on Jon. That's bad, folks.

http://redalertpolitics.com/2014/11/19/jon-stewart-obamacare-architect-jonathan-gruber-super-egghead/

“You’ve tried to kill this law every which way,” Stewart said to the GOP. “You keep trying, and now your best remaining move — the strongest card in your deck — looks to the be Gruber. Well, good luck getting somebody to take up a federal case on the offhanded and somewhat dickish comments of some MIT egghead.”

What's funny about this is that the reaction of Obama and Pelosi and many ACA proponents to Gruber has been 'what a #### [jerk].' Like, this ###### had to go blabbing.
Now they don't know him.

Well except for Lawrence O'Donell on Msnbc who thinks that Gruber was right and that the American people are the great unwashed ignorant who need to be exploited and tricked for their own good.

ETA - @7:50 Stewart can't help but read the talking points fed to him about what the rest of the law states, the federal exchange was purposefully shot down by the moderate Senate Democrats, they didn't do that so that the exact same thing would be effectuated by a different method.