Gun Control Laws - Where are we really? Where to go? (3 Viewers)

[moleculo]

They also were very adamant about having "crisis teams" in place at schools and work.  These would be people trained what to do and be able to problem solve better what to act on.  They also suggested and anonymous tip system- paper, email, etc.   

The point was you can't have a system where every threat or change in behavior = psychological evaluation, school suspensions and no guns.  There has to be some guidelines and system in place.  

It's something that can be done on the cheap, using people already in place, and would have a far greater overall benefit (also helps with the suicide numbers) than armed guards and other suggestions. No Brainer, imo. 

interesting.  We have a suicide hotline in place...a shooter threat hotline could piggy-back off of that.

 

[belljr]

It doesn't. 

I guess the issue today is Rifles of 2022 <> of Rifles in the 60s (I think thats when the law passed) - I feel like that should be an easy place to start ....

TBH - When I thought Rifle I was thinking more of a hunting "single shot" rifle

 

[RCon]

You guys really need this spelled out for you or are you playing coy? 

1)  "see something say something" messaging campaign 

2) Establishing hotlines to report clear threats, that are required to be followed up on immediately. Establish penalties for abuse of the system.

3) Force social media channels to establish reporting tools that funnel into 2 for expedited analysis and response. Also would require penalties for abuse of the system. 

4) Fund local and federal threat response teams to weed through data and address threats. 

5) Fund mental health teams to meet with those issuing threats to assess their ongoing risk level, and put them on a path to treatment (or incarceration) depending on professional assessment. 

6) Establish a panel of law enforcement experts as well as mental health experts (with a specialty in this issue) to identify further solutions that identify threats while minimizing intrusion into privacy of law abiding citizens. 

This is off the top of my head.... the team of experts likely have MANY more ideas that we're not tapping. 

Now your turn..... go. 

I appreciate you laying out what you think it means.  I'm in.  Now let's get the funding approved.  We both know who will balk at the funding for this, though, if we're being honest.

 

[Toby2ElectricBugaloo]

You guys really need this spelled out for you or are you playing coy? 

1)  "see something say something" messaging campaign 

2) Establishing hotlines to report clear threats, that are required to be followed up on immediately. Establish penalties for abuse of the system.

3) Force social media channels to establish reporting tools that funnel into 2 for expedited analysis and response. Also would require penalties for abuse of the system. 

4) Fund local and federal threat response teams to weed through data and address threats. 

5) Fund mental health teams to meet with those issuing threats to assess their ongoing risk level, and put them on a path to treatment (or incarceration) depending on professional assessment. 

6) Establish a panel of law enforcement experts as well as mental health experts (with a specialty in this issue) to identify further solutions that identify threats while minimizing intrusion into privacy of law abiding citizens. 

This is off the top of my head.... the team of experts likely have MANY more ideas that we're not tapping. 

Now your turn..... go. 

Thank you for doing this. I don't know how effective these would be, or the extent to which we're already doing a lot of these things, but I appreciate your responsiveness and effort.

But for what it's worth I would happily support a legislative proposal along these lines even if it wasn't paired with gun control measures. I want to save lives.

ETA: For what it's worth we already do some of this stuff under the Safe Schools/Healthy Students initiative.

 

[[icon]]

Meanwhile in California they're heading in the wrong direction:

California passes Bill that removes mandatory reporting of Students who attack/assault/threaten other students to law enforcement... citing ACLU objections that "once kids make contact with law enforcement they're less likely to graduate, and more likely to end up in Jail". 

Having trouble finding the full bill given the MSM ignoring it and right wing media being insane with the ramblings/spin. That said, on it's face that 's exactly the WRONG direction if we're being honest about identifying threats and stop them from coming to fruition. 

 

[RCon]

Meanwhile in California they're heading in the wrong direction:

California passes Bill that removes mandatory reporting of Students who attack/assault/threaten other students to law enforcement... citing ACLU objections that "once kids make contact with law enforcement they're less likely to graduate, and more likely to end up in Jail". 

Having trouble finding the full bill given the MSM ignoring it and right wing media being insane with the ramblings/spin. That said, on it's face that 's exactly the WRONG direction if we're being honest about identifying threats and stop them from coming to fruition. 

Would need to see the actual bill here.  "Not reporting to law enforcement" is not the same as "not addressing".  Two 10-year olds get in a scrap at recess.  Should they be reported to law enforcement?

 

[[icon]]

Looks like this is the clause that was repealed, but I could be wrong: 

(2) Under existing law, whenever any employee of a school district or county superintendent of schools is attacked, assaulted, or physically threatened by any pupil, the employee and any person under whose direction or supervision the employee is employed who has knowledge of the incident are required to promptly report the incident to specified law enforcement authorities. Failure to make the report is an infraction punishable by a fine of not more than $1,000. An act by specified persons to inhibit or impede the making of the report is an infraction punishable by a fine of not less than $500 and not more than $1,000.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=202120220SB1273

And I would say maybe don't assume 10 year olds can't be a risk factor:
https://abc7chicago.com/10-year-old-florida-boy-arrested-for-mass-shooting-threat-school-lee-county/11908569/

"10-year-old boy arrested for alleged mass shooting threat, texts about school violence, police say

Sheriff's office said it took threat seriously because of deadly Robb Elementary School shooting in Uvalde, Texas"

 

[The Commish]

Forgive me for my ignorance here but

The Texas shooter is legally not allowed to buy a hand gun in a public sale (Federal law is 21)  but can buy AR-15 because its classified as a rifle?

How does that make sense

Florida law was like that and after Parkland they moved the legal age for those AR-15 type weapons to 21.  The NRA is currently fighting that law in the courts.  It makes no sense to me.  The militia is only as healthy as its weakest link.

 

[lazyike]

well to me, its 100% mental ... its not normal to want to kill a lot of people, especially children

these people doing these things - they have to be removed from society. Asking them to use a different kind of weapon will result in them using a different kind of weapon. 

we DO have background checks ... and it says right there on the forms if you have mental health issues. The Fed Govt runs that background checking - they're the ones failing in it IMO. We also have red flagging and people reporting and it works, many examples of it working where people are pro-active. 

if you are suggesting laws on mental health = locking up, I'll agree with you and red flag laws that target non-gun owners, lets do it.  But you can't just target gun owners - that's discrimination and it also totally ignores the problem. 

And what wpuld of happened if an 18 year old couldn't buy an AR-15?

 

[stlrams]

Would he do that if he were facing 20 years in prison for possession?

Obviously not have one but that is never going to happen so your example is meaningless.  

 

[The Commish]

Meanwhile in California they're heading in the wrong direction:

California passes Bill that removes mandatory reporting of Students who attack/assault/threaten other students to law enforcement... citing ACLU objections that "once kids make contact with law enforcement they're less likely to graduate, and more likely to end up in Jail". 

Having trouble finding the full bill given the MSM ignoring it and right wing media being insane with the ramblings/spin. That said, on it's face that 's exactly the WRONG direction if we're being honest about identifying threats and stop them from coming to fruition. 

Most states have a site that lists their bills being proposed in both their house and senate.  I'd start there.  You don't need the MSM for any of that.

ETA:  I see you found it...it's SB1273 in California....

 

[stlrams]

Well if it will had no impact just pass it. At the very least it will help the GOP in November ....unless you don't want that?

I’m good with that but it doesn’t really solve the problem.  

 

[The Dude]

You guys really need this spelled out for you or are you playing coy? 

1)  "see something say something" messaging campaign 

2) Establishing hotlines to report clear threats, that are required to be followed up on immediately. Establish penalties for abuse of the system.

3) Force social media channels to establish reporting tools that funnel into 2 for expedited analysis and response. Also would require penalties for abuse of the system. 

4) Fund local and federal threat response teams to weed through data and address threats. 

5) Fund mental health teams to meet with those issuing threats to assess their ongoing risk level, and put them on a path to treatment (or incarceration) depending on professional assessment. 

6) Establish a panel of law enforcement experts as well as mental health experts (with a specialty in this issue) to identify further solutions that identify threats while minimizing intrusion into privacy of law abiding citizens. 

This is off the top of my head.... the team of experts likely have MANY more ideas that we're not tapping. 

Now your turn..... go. 

It's a start.  I'm not sure there was enough lead time on the Texas shooter to stop him - based on the questionable posts to the time of the event.  Reviews of this type of material is going to take weeks.  And some on the right are already responding that this infringes on free speech.

Ban assault weapons belonging to anyone under 21 - and criminal charges against anyone's actions that result in under age ownership - and it's a good proposal.

 

[[icon]]

It's a start.  I'm not sure there was enough lead time on the Texas shooter to stop him - based on the questionable posts to the time of the event.  Reviews of this type of material is going to take weeks.  And some on the right are already responding that this infringes on free speech.

Ban assault weapons belonging to anyone under 21 - and criminal charges against anyone's actions that result in under age ownership - and it's a good proposal.

My .02: 

Regarding red: Doesn't have to. 

Regarding Blue: Don't care what the GOP thinks. If we're talking about 3rd party reports vs randomly scraping social media (which is happening now anyway)... there's little argument in defense of free speech / invasion of privacy here. And i'm as big a 1A / Privacy supporter as a 2A supporter. If I don't see an issue there... then I don't see many rational folks taking issue. 

Regarding Green... to be clear this wasn't a comprehensive proposal.. this was just off the cuff suggestions on easy steps to identify and stop some shooters before they act. This would absolutely be in addition to / a refinement of the mental health steps in my the 10 step plan posted earlier (which has plenty of gun control measures in including increasing age of AR platform ownership to 21... agreed that's an easy fix) . 

 

[moleculo]

Would he do that if he were facing 20 years in prison for possession?

Obviously not have one but that is never going to happen so your example is meaningless.  

I wouldn't say meaningless.  It illustrates very clearly that our laws are failing us because they are toothless.

You are right though that it would never happen because adding teeth to the laws makes a neat hobby inconvenient to some very passionate enthusiasts.

 

[BladeRunner]

100% the riots that occurred around the BLM movement did more to increase gun ownership in American than just about anything else in recent memory. 

I can confirm this with 100% accuracy.  Prior to that, we had ZERO guns in our house. 

And the funny thing? This was all driven by my wife, a YUUUGGGEEE liberal who never disagrees with anything the Democrat Party pushes.  After watching BLM/Antifa run roughshod over our cities and create havoc and violence, she turned to me as we were watching it LIVE, on TV, and said, "We should get some guns.  This is scary.".  LITERALLY said that.  I was shocked, to say the least. 

My wife - a liberal.  She drove this after NEVER wanting guns in the house.

And for anyone wanting to know, it can get lively here at the BR household during elections. 

 

[LawFitz]

Meanwhile in Joe Biden's world, 9mm bullets are high caliber and should be banned...

https://twitter.com/RNCResearch/status/1531301347508862979

For all of you on the Left that have been repeatedly reaming Republicans for not willing to give an inch on gun control, this is what your Democrat President is OPENLY saying. Now imagine what he must be saying privately. 2A advocates certainly are. It's hard for me blame them for not trusting him or you, when such absurdities are being peddled publicly by not just the highest ranking member of your party, but the man is supposed to represent all of us now.

And please save your Trump whataboutisms in response to this. Trump isn't President and Joe Biden just tipped the scales for me to say #### off with 95%+ of any further gun control proposals, when just before seeing this clip, that thought was more like 75%. I don't trust him and I don't trust you either. And I'm not even a Republican.

 

[BladeRunner]

Meanwhile in Joe Biden's world, 9mm bullets are high caliber and should be banned...

https://twitter.com/RNCResearch/status/1531301347508862979

For all of you on the Left that have been repeatedly reaming Republicans for not willing to give an inch on gun control, this is what your Democrat President is OPENLY saying. Now imagine what he must be saying privately. 2A advocates certainly are. It's hard for me blame them for not trusting him or you, when such absurdities are being peddled publicly by not just the highest ranking member of your party, but the man is supposed to represent all of us now.

And please save your Trump whataboutisms in response to this. Trump isn't President and Joe Biden just tipped the scales for me to say #### off with 95%+ of any further gun control proposals, when just before seeing this clip, that thought was more like 75%. I don't trust him and I don't trust you either. And I'm not even a Republican.

You know how we know the left isn't serious about "compromise"?  How they laugh at us when we bring up "slippery slope" arguments?

It's because they tell us EVERY DAY what their real intentions are. 

 

[Stealthycat]

Example of what I am talking about with bubble up philosophy.  This incident was thwarted because of a change in gun law here in Florida after the Parkland shooting.  The legislation spent almost 2.5 years in litigation via NRA lawsuits, but they were ultimately rejected.  If states can get moving in the right direction, that's a huge win IMO.

NRA dues and donations go directly to fighting the sort of legislation that allows local law enforcement to be proactive in situations like this.  

you're going to have to get me a link to what the NRA fought - which bills etc, for me to comment on them

 

[Stealthycat]

And please save your Trump whataboutisms in response to this. Trump isn't President and Joe Biden just tipped the scales for me to say #### off with 95%+ of any further gun control proposals, when just before seeing this clip, that thought was more like 75%. I don't trust him and I don't trust you either. And I'm not even a Republican.

in office for 50 years and Biden still says dumb, not factual, untrue things about guns

you'd think in 50 years he'd have educated himself 

 

[The Commish]

you're going to have to get me a link to what the NRA fought - which bills etc, for me to comment on them

So if I don't do your work for you, you won't comment?  DEAL!   

 

[Stealthycat]

Convenient, now having more people is the reason.  You’re unreal man, any excuse to not  acknowledge the laws themselves might actually be working.  

I posted a link that showed mass murders and murders still happening frequently in California and the rates not really dropped much at all

Do I need to post that again and if I do, will you see it/acknowledge it ?

in 2016 the mag ban happened, right ? since then ...

• 2017 Fresno shootingsFresno2017-04-184African-American man randomly targeted white victims at several locations
  
• Rancho Tehama Reserve shootingsTehama County2017-11-13 to 2017-11-14618Shooting spree across 8 locations
  
• Thousand Oaks shootingThousand Oaks2018-11-071316Mass shooting at a restaurant
  
• Tulare County shootingsTulare County2018-12-1637Shooting spree in several locations
  
• Poway synagogue shootingPoway2019-04-2713Antisemitic terrorist attack inspired by the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting and the Christchurch mosque shootings
  
• Gilroy Garlic Festival shootingGilroy2019-07-28412Mass shooting
  
• Orinda shootingOrinda, California2019-10-3154Mass shooting that occurred during a house party
  
• Saugus High School shootingSanta Clarita2019-11-1425School shooting
  
• Fresno party shootingFresno2019-11-1746A group of family and friends were gathered in a backyard Sunday to watch a football game when two gunmen sneaked into the yard and began shooting
  
• Shooting of Pop SmokeHollywood Hills, Los Angeles2020-02-191Rapper shot; arrests made
  
• 2020 boogaloo killingsOakland2020-05-3023Attacks on law enforcement during the George Floyd protests
  
• Aguanga shootingAguanga2020-09-077Unsolved case, investigated by police if related to a marijuana grow
  
• 2021 San Jose shootingSan Jose2021-05-2610Mass shooting; workplace violence
  
• 2022 Sacramento shootingSacramento, California2022-04-03612Mass shooting; Gang War
  
• Laguna Woods church shootingLaguna Woods, California2022-05-1515Mass shooting
  

IIRC CA murder rates have stayed around the same, mag ban or not

am I right ?

 

[the rover]

Welcome to the US.   It has been 0 days since our last mass shooting.

Tulsa, Oklahoma joins the list.

 

[Redwes25]

And we have another one. 
 

https://ktul.com/amp/news/local/tpd-responds-to-active-shooter-at-warren-clinic

 

[Dickies]

Welcome to the US.   It has been 0 days since our last mass shooting.

Tulsa, Oklahoma joins the list.

Harden the medical facilities!

 

[the rover]

Harden the medical facilities!

arm the nurses.  why are there doors?

 

[JIslander]

arm the nurses.  why are there doors?

no doors or windows.  More helicopter pads.

 

[the rover]

what exactly is in those thoughts and prayers, anyway?

 

[Yankee23Fan]

arm the nurses.  why are there doors?

If we close the hospital we can use the money to make more guns you know. 

 

[Amused to Death]

what exactly is in those thoughts and prayers, anyway?

Besides a bunch of B.S.? Nothing.

 

[GROOT]

Strong guns laws are working really well in Chicago

 

[belljr]

Strong guns laws are working really well in Chicago

I reply with the other sides rebuttal when this comes up that 65% of guns used in Chicago are bought in Mississippi or Indiana where the gun laws are lacking.....

Its the same tired points by both parties

 

[Toby2ElectricBugaloo]

We should start a separate thread called "Chicago" where conservatives and NRA types can go and just say "what about Chicago?" any time they want to feel less guilty about the blood on their hands from mass shootings, and then totally ignore it the rest of the year while they pretend it's the liberals who don't care.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Strong guns laws are working really well in Chicago

 

[Max Power]

I reply with the other sides rebuttal when this comes up that 65% of guns used in Chicago are bought in Mississippi or Indiana where the gun laws are lacking.....

Its the same tired points by both parties

Mississippi? This is the first time I've heard this claim.  Where does that come from?

 

[moleculo]

I posted a link that showed mass murders and murders still happening frequently in California and the rates not really dropped much at all

Do I need to post that again and if I do, will you see it/acknowledge it ?

in 2016 the mag ban happened, right ? since then ...

• 2017 Fresno shootingsFresno2017-04-184African-American man randomly targeted white victims at several locations
  
• Rancho Tehama Reserve shootingsTehama County2017-11-13 to 2017-11-14618Shooting spree across 8 locations
  
• Thousand Oaks shootingThousand Oaks2018-11-071316Mass shooting at a restaurant
  
• Tulare County shootingsTulare County2018-12-1637Shooting spree in several locations
  
• Poway synagogue shootingPoway2019-04-2713Antisemitic terrorist attack inspired by the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting and the Christchurch mosque shootings
  
• Gilroy Garlic Festival shootingGilroy2019-07-28412Mass shooting
  
• Orinda shootingOrinda, California2019-10-3154Mass shooting that occurred during a house party
  
• Saugus High School shootingSanta Clarita2019-11-1425School shooting
  
• Fresno party shootingFresno2019-11-1746A group of family and friends were gathered in a backyard Sunday to watch a football game when two gunmen sneaked into the yard and began shooting
  
• Shooting of Pop SmokeHollywood Hills, Los Angeles2020-02-191Rapper shot; arrests made
  
• 2020 boogaloo killingsOakland2020-05-3023Attacks on law enforcement during the George Floyd protests
  
• Aguanga shootingAguanga2020-09-077Unsolved case, investigated by police if related to a marijuana grow
  
• 2021 San Jose shootingSan Jose2021-05-2610Mass shooting; workplace violence
  
• 2022 Sacramento shootingSacramento, California2022-04-03612Mass shooting; Gang War
  
• Laguna Woods church shootingLaguna Woods, California2022-05-1515Mass shooting
  

IIRC CA murder rates have stayed around the same, mag ban or not

am I right ?

doesn't look like the law was in effect until 2021.  further, the penalty is fines or a misdemeanor - a slap on the wrist.

There is another law with no teeth.  Make is a felony and watch behavior change.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

We should start a separate thread called "Chicago" where conservatives and NRA types can go and just say "what about Chicago?" any time they want to feel less guilty about the blood on their hands from mass shootings, and then totally ignore it the rest of the year while they pretend it's the liberals who don't care.

The drama is off the charts with you.  This is beyond ridiculous for a false accusation

 

[culdeus]

Meanwhile in Joe Biden's world, 9mm bullets are high caliber and should be banned...

https://twitter.com/RNCResearch/status/1531301347508862979

For all of you on the Left that have been repeatedly reaming Republicans for not willing to give an inch on gun control, this is what your Democrat President is OPENLY saying. Now imagine what he must be saying privately. 2A advocates certainly are. It's hard for me blame them for not trusting him or you, when such absurdities are being peddled publicly by not just the highest ranking member of your party, but the man is supposed to represent all of us now.

And please save your Trump whataboutisms in response to this. Trump isn't President and Joe Biden just tipped the scales for me to say #### off with 95%+ of any further gun control proposals, when just before seeing this clip, that thought was more like 75%. I don't trust him and I don't trust you either. And I'm not even a Republican.

A 9mm is a high caliber round.  It's the same round as a 7.62 with a shorter cartridge. Most nato militaries have adopted a 9mm for use in close combat favoring it over the 45acp.

 

[belljr]

Mississippi? This is the first time I've heard this claim.  Where does that come from?

Sorry 60% outside of Illinois.  With Indiana and Mississippi top 2. I don't pay too close attention because it's the same merry go round .

https://www.chicago.gov/content/dam/city/depts/mayor/Press Room/Press Releases/2017/October/GTR2017.pdf

 

[BladeRunner]

I reply with the other sides rebuttal when this comes up that 65% of guns used in Chicago are bought in Mississippi or Indiana where the gun laws are lacking.....

Its the same tired points by both parties

Sounds like the same excuses being brought up too.

You could have just said, "not my fault!!!".  It's the same excuse we hear over and over from Democrats.  Of course it's always someone else's fault.

We know the Biden Administration has perfected this excuse.

 

[belljr]

Sounds like the same excuses being brought up too.

You could have just said, "not my fault!!!".  It's the same excuse we hear over and over from Democrats.  Of course it's always someone else's fault.

We know the Biden Administration has perfected this excuse.

I think you confused my post with some allegiance to one party . 

 I clearly said same tired points by both parties

 

[dozer]

New: The assault-style weapon found on scene of the shooting at a Tulsa medical building was purchased the day of the shooting, CNN is reporting. The weapon was an AR-15 style firearm. A handgun, also found on the scene, was purchased on May 29.

 

[BladeRunner]

You confused me with someone who said they were a Democrat.   I clearly said same tired points by both parties

Yeah my bad. I completely misunderstood your post.

 

[Stealthycat]

So if I don't do your work for you, you won't comment?  DEAL!   

you made the comments, I have to prove your point for you ?

I know the NRA fights a lot of bills, the ACLU does too - in fact, they sometimes even fight the SAME ones together

like the no fly thing that was submitted

https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2016/0624/Why-the-NRA-and-ACLU-take-same-side-of-no-fly-gun-debate

 

[The Commish]

you made the comments, I have to prove your point for you ?

I know the NRA fights a lot of bills, the ACLU does too - in fact, they sometimes even fight the SAME ones together

like the no fly thing that was submitted

https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2016/0624/Why-the-NRA-and-ACLU-take-same-side-of-no-fly-gun-debate

No, I'm good...point crystal clear from my side...court documents and findings are all out there and were covered extensively when they were going on  

 

[Stealthycat]

doesn't look like the law was in effect until 2021.  further, the penalty is fines or a misdemeanor - a slap on the wrist.

There is another law with no teeth.  Make is a felony and watch behavior change.

thought it was passed in 2016 ??

regardless, it won't make any difference, I agree. It totally ignores the problem - one more worthless last that law abiding people will follow and criminals won't

I was in a hospital yesterday ... as I sat in the register lobby i though how wide open that was. A wacko could some in and kill a lot of people in a hurry with a shogun or even run a vehicle though the lobby. Most in there were elderly, couldn't have fought back

 

[KarmaPolice]

We can't honestly talk about this #### if we can't even have common ground on what stats and metrics we are using.   

Same stuff as other topics- one group uses rates or x/100k numbers, and the other looks at total numbers or if a law "stopped" something.  

How do we fix this simple step? 

 

[Stealthycat]

No, I'm good...point crystal clear from my side...court documents and findings are all out there and were covered extensively when they were going on  

if I make a claim - don't you like if I add a link on where it came from ?

that's all I'm asking 

 

[JIslander]

you made the comments, I have to prove your point for you ?

I know the NRA fights a lot of bills, the ACLU does too - in fact, they sometimes even fight the SAME ones together

like the no fly thing that was submitted

https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2016/0624/Why-the-NRA-and-ACLU-take-same-side-of-no-fly-gun-debate

Yes, one for an inanimate object thats kills--the other to protect human rights.  But yeah --

 

[moleculo]

thought it was passed in 2016 ??

regardless, it won't make any difference, I agree. It totally ignores the problem - one more worthless last that law abiding people will follow and criminals won't

I was in a hospital yesterday ... as I sat in the register lobby i though how wide open that was. A wacko could some in and kill a lot of people in a hurry with a shogun or even run a vehicle though the lobby. Most in there were elderly, couldn't have fought back

it was. 

The nascent law was challenged in federal district court, resulting in a preliminary injunction on implementation of the law after the federal judge found the law to be an unconstitutional violation of the Second Amendment.  The questions were complex, but at its core, the questions before the district court were: “”Does a law-abiding responsible citizen have a right to defend his home from criminals using whatever common magazine size he or she judges best suits the situation? Does that same citizen have a right to keep and bear a common magazine that is useful for service in a militia?” (Duncan v. Becerra, 265 F.Supp.3d 1106, 1112 (S.D. Cal. 2017) .) This was the beginning of many years of court wrangling.

In 2020, the Ninth Circuit upheld the district court’s ruling. In a nutshell, the Ninth Circuit found that the new law infringed on the right of a citizen to self-defense. Although the Ninth Circuit was not speaking broadly about all gun control measures – and, in fact, found the goal of reducing gun control laudable – the court, noted that half of all magazines owned in America are “large capacity magazines” as defined by Prop 63, and would thus make “unlawful magazines that are commonly used in handguns by law-abiding citizens for self-defense . . . burden[ing] the core right of self-defense guaranteed to the people under the Second Amendment.” (Duncan v. Becerra, 970 F.3d 1133, 1169 (9th Cir. 2020)

But wait there’s more. Last month (November 2021), the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeal reversed itself. Once again, the reasoning of the decision is complex and may seem a bit convoluted, as quite frankly, many case decisions are. But this time around, the court did not ask whether the new law implicated Second Amendment rights, except to say that the law placed a minimal burden on core Second Amendment rights. Instead, the court focused on the rights of the state’s (California) interest in reducing gun violence. Noting that the Prop 63 restriction on large capacity magazines does not outlaw all firearms or restrict a law-abiding citizen’s right to self-defense but does reasonably support California’s effort to reduce the incidence of mass shooting and murders.

Bottom line: It’s the law, it’s not the law, it’s the law again.

Without a confiscation plan (which I don't believe anyone supports), it will take some time for high capacity magazines to weed out of the system thru attrition.  Change can't happen over night, but it will happen.  Look back on your statistics in 20 years and see if this law made any difference.