Harvin and Calvin-- Potential VS Trust (1 Viewer)

[FavreAndAwayAnIdiot]

Alright so the Harvin circus (and it is a circus now) continues and apparently he's feeling great and will play. While I'm tired of putting him in my starting lineup only to see him exit the game after the first quarter, it's hard to deny that his 5 receptions in the first drive last week were impressive. Add in Favre's obsession to 'get on the same page' and Harvin could be huge. Or again, he could exit the game after the first quarter.

DO you trust him?

Calvin Johnson, the man of freakish talent and horrible QB'ing, did nothing until the last 3 minutes of the game, and then scored like 15 points for my fantasy team. Some said they don't care, as points are points, but I say there is a fine line between skill and luck, and it's my belief those last minutes points were luck. He's playing a Vikings team trying to get back on track.

DO you trust him?

 

[Herm23]

I watched the entire Lions game last week and I assure you the points were not luck. The EXACT same scenario played out in week 1 as well, the only difference is the touchdown Calvin caught was overturned (rightfully or not).

The gameplan for the first two weeks seems to have been to keep Best HEAVILY involved through the first 3 quarters, leaving Johnson few targets. This has led to the scores remaining relatively close. However, one the Lions get down and are forced to pass, Calvin is absolutely being fed the ball. He actually caught a touchdown on the play before his credited touchdown last week, but it was negated due to penalty. What happened on the very next play? Hill went right back to him for his TD.

The Lions, as usual, will be down late in the game a lot, forcing them to play a passing/catchup offense. Calvin is still absolutely the man and as soon as he sees targets, will continue to rack up points.

As people have said, it doesn't matter when the points come, as long as they come. And after watching every minute of both of the first 2 games, I feel confident in saying that the points will indeed continue to come for Calvin, even if they are routinely waiting until the 4th quarter to be posted.

 

[Neofight]

Calvin Johnson, the man of freakish talent and horrible QB'ing, did nothing until the last 3 minutes of the game, and then scored like 15 points for my fantasy team. Some said they don't care, as points are points, but I say there is a fine line between skill and luck, and it's my belief those last minutes points were luck. He's playing a Vikings team trying to get back on track.DO you trust him?

Are you implying that Calvin lacks the skill, or merely that the timing of the TD causes you consternation? While Hill is not an NFL starting caliber QB, he is a more than adequate backup, and Stafford is going to be a very good QB for a long time in the league (assuming he can stay healthy). Couple that with the single most physically gifted and yes, very skilled, WR in the NFL and I'd say that I have no trust issues with Calvin.Harvin has a lot to prove, OTOH.

 

[FavreAndAwayAnIdiot]

Calvin Johnson, the man of freakish talent and horrible QB'ing, did nothing until the last 3 minutes of the game, and then scored like 15 points for my fantasy team. Some said they don't care, as points are points, but I say there is a fine line between skill and luck, and it's my belief those last minutes points were luck. He's playing a Vikings team trying to get back on track.

DO you trust him?

Are you implying that Calvin lacks the skill, or merely that the timing of the TD causes you consternation? While Hill is not an NFL starting caliber QB, he is a more than adequate backup, and Stafford is going to be a very good QB for a long time in the league (assuming he can stay healthy). Couple that with the single most physically gifted and yes, very skilled, WR in the NFL and I'd say that I have no trust issues with Calvin.Harvin has a lot to prove, OTOH.

I guess a little of both. I think he's skilled, but not as skilled as perhaps we thought. If he were that skilled, wouldn't he have found a way to get open the other 57 minutes of the game? With that then, was his last-minute TD and flood of points a result of a defense playing prevent and/or broken coverage, and he probably should have ended with the goose egg? I didn't watch the Lions game (does anyone?) so I can't say.

 

[Grahamburn]

Yes and Yes.

Harvin is playing a sieve of a secondary. I think the Vikings will make the effort to get him the ball again, and you have to like his chances to break a big play against Detroit. Minnesota should use this game to get Brett Favre and their passing offense clicking.

Calvin has averaged 63.6 yards and .66 TDs against the Vikings so far in his career, and that includes a 1 catch for 17 yard performance his rookie season. Throw that game out and he averages 73 yards and .8 TDs. He's historically been pretty good against the Vikings. Minnesota's secondary is a little banged up and I think they're vulnerable through the air. They'll also have to pay alot of attention to Jahvid Best, which should give CJ the window he needs to get open. Expect Calvin to have a pretty good game.

 

[scrumptrulescent]

Coach Jim Schwartz attributes the monster games by Jahvid Best and Brandon Pettigrew in Week 2 to the consistent double teams on Calvin Johnson."We saw our tight ends and running backs account for almost 380 yards of total offense," said Schwartz of the Eagles' plan to devote their defensive resources to covering Johnson. It's a fair point. The Lions have a bit of a pick-your-poison offense for the first time since Johnson entered the league. It should benefit Johnson in the long run.

 

[FavreAndAwayAnIdiot]

I watched the entire Lions game last week and I assure you the points were not luck. The EXACT same scenario played out in week 1 as well, the only difference is the touchdown Calvin caught was overturned (rightfully or not). The gameplan for the first two weeks seems to have been to keep Best HEAVILY involved through the first 3 quarters, leaving Johnson few targets. This has led to the scores remaining relatively close. However, one the Lions get down and are forced to pass, Calvin is absolutely being fed the ball. He actually caught a touchdown on the play before his credited touchdown last week, but it was negated due to penalty. What happened on the very next play? Hill went right back to him for his TD.The Lions, as usual, will be down late in the game a lot, forcing them to play a passing/catchup offense. Calvin is still absolutely the man and as soon as he sees targets, will continue to rack up points. As people have said, it doesn't matter when the points come, as long as they come. And after watching every minute of both of the first 2 games, I feel confident in saying that the points will indeed continue to come for Calvin, even if they are routinely waiting until the 4th quarter to be posted.

I hear what you're saying, but it doesn't make sense to me. I mean, if the Lions are winning, then sure, keep feeding Best. But they are 0-2. If CJ can routinely step up and get open, why wait until the 4th quarter to use him? What kind of person game plans to fall behind early and then unleash their weapon? If he's that good, and I'm not sure he is, yet (thus the point of this thread for me), he would be a big part of the game for the other 3 quarters.

 

[Grahamburn]

Coach Jim Schwartz attributes the monster games by Jahvid Best and Brandon Pettigrew in Week 2 to the consistent double teams on Calvin Johnson."We saw our tight ends and running backs account for almost 380 yards of total offense," said Schwartz of the Eagles' plan to devote their defensive resources to covering Johnson. It's a fair point. The Lions have a bit of a pick-your-poison offense for the first time since Johnson entered the league. It should benefit Johnson in the long run.

 

[Herm23]

I watched the entire Lions game last week and I assure you the points were not luck. The EXACT same scenario played out in week 1 as well, the only difference is the touchdown Calvin caught was overturned (rightfully or not). The gameplan for the first two weeks seems to have been to keep Best HEAVILY involved through the first 3 quarters, leaving Johnson few targets. This has led to the scores remaining relatively close. However, one the Lions get down and are forced to pass, Calvin is absolutely being fed the ball. He actually caught a touchdown on the play before his credited touchdown last week, but it was negated due to penalty. What happened on the very next play? Hill went right back to him for his TD.The Lions, as usual, will be down late in the game a lot, forcing them to play a passing/catchup offense. Calvin is still absolutely the man and as soon as he sees targets, will continue to rack up points. As people have said, it doesn't matter when the points come, as long as they come. And after watching every minute of both of the first 2 games, I feel confident in saying that the points will indeed continue to come for Calvin, even if they are routinely waiting until the 4th quarter to be posted.

I hear what you're saying, but it doesn't make sense to me. I mean, if the Lions are winning, then sure, keep feeding Best. But they are 0-2. If CJ can routinely step up and get open, why wait until the 4th quarter to use him? What kind of person game plans to fall behind early and then unleash their weapon? If he's that good, and I'm not sure he is, yet (thus the point of this thread for me), he would be a big part of the game for the other 3 quarters.

Because Sean Hill is petrified to throw the ball further than 5 yards down the field while facing a legitimate pass rush. As soon as defenses loosen up because they get ahead, Hill feels comfortable enough to actually let a route develop. This is only a short term problem, as Stafford will be back before too long. When that happens, you can fully expect Calvin to score points during the entire game. Until then, you will have to suffice with him cramming production into the 4th quarter. The good news is that he is so talented that as soon as Hill does loosen his reigns a bit, he feeds it to Calvin and Calvin produces with it.

 

[FavreAndAwayAnIdiot]

Coach Jim Schwartz attributes the monster games by Jahvid Best and Brandon Pettigrew in Week 2 to the consistent double teams on Calvin Johnson."We saw our tight ends and running backs account for almost 380 yards of total offense," said Schwartz of the Eagles' plan to devote their defensive resources to covering Johnson. It's a fair point. The Lions have a bit of a pick-your-poison offense for the first time since Johnson entered the league. It should benefit Johnson in the long run.

The Lions have lost both games, so this gameplan against them... works. If taking CJ out of the picture leads to a win, how then would this benefit CJ in the long run?

 

[Grahamburn]

Coach Jim Schwartz attributes the monster games by Jahvid Best and Brandon Pettigrew in Week 2 to the consistent double teams on Calvin Johnson."We saw our tight ends and running backs account for almost 380 yards of total offense," said Schwartz of the Eagles' plan to devote their defensive resources to covering Johnson. It's a fair point. The Lions have a bit of a pick-your-poison offense for the first time since Johnson entered the league. It should benefit Johnson in the long run.

The Lions have lost both games, so this gameplan against them... works. If taking CJ out of the picture leads to a win, how then would this benefit CJ in the long run?

They aren't losing because of their offense.

 

[MIMN]

Alright so the Harvin circus (and it is a circus now) continues and apparently he's feeling great and will play. While I'm tired of putting him in my starting lineup only to see him exit the game after the first quarter, it's hard to deny that his 5 receptions in the first drive last week were impressive. Add in Favre's obsession to 'get on the same page' and Harvin could be huge. Or again, he could exit the game after the first quarter. DO you trust him?Calvin Johnson, the man of freakish talent and horrible QB'ing, did nothing until the last 3 minutes of the game, and then scored like 15 points for my fantasy team. Some said they don't care, as points are points, but I say there is a fine line between skill and luck, and it's my belief those last minutes points were luck. He's playing a Vikings team trying to get back on track.DO you trust him?

No and Yes.IMO...Harvin is destined to be a hit or miss, up and down receiver. Calvin is a #1 and has much higher upside.If this is a WDIStart, I start Calvin this week. If this is a WDIKeep, I keep Calvin. If this is who has more trade value, Calvin wins again. Pure and simple, I think Calvin has more fantasy and real football value than Harvin.

 

[puckalicious]

Color me biased, but I don't think I'd ever start Harvin over Calvin. Harvin outscored Calvin in only 3 weeks last season out of 12 games (not counting games missed by injury for either player).

 

[FavreAndAwayAnIdiot]

Color me biased, but I don't think I'd ever start Harvin over Calvin. Harvin outscored Calvin in only 3 weeks last season out of 12 games (not counting games missed by injury for either player).

Just wanted to point out that this is not a 'who should I start' thread, or especially an either/or. I'm not looking for advice on my lineup, what I'd like to know is if you trust playing either of these guys based on what you've seen through 2 games, or would you look to alternate options until they prove themselves.

 

[puckalicious]

Color me biased, but I don't think I'd ever start Harvin over Calvin. Harvin outscored Calvin in only 3 weeks last season out of 12 games (not counting games missed by injury for either player).

Just wanted to point out that this is not a 'who should I start' thread, or especially an either/or. I'm not looking for advice on my lineup, what I'd like to know is if you trust playing either of these guys based on what you've seen through 2 games, or would you look to alternate options until they prove themselves.

 

[packersfan]

I don't trust Harvin at all after the first two weeks but if he can't put numbers against a terrible Detroit secondary than he's entirely worthless in my view. So I'm starting him as my WR4 this week and hoping his talent wins out.

I don't own Megatron but if I did I'd be far less confident with him as long as Hill is the QB. I know he's scored two TDs with Hill (yeah I said two cuz he has) but I don't think Hill is any good and we've seen Megatron suffer without a quality QB throwing him the ball. I'd view him as a WR2 without Stafford and a WR1 with elite potential should Stafford ever return.