Harvin to Bills/ Formerly the Harvin to Hawks & Jets (1 Viewer)

[Faust]

Seahawks learn what Vikings already knew: Harvin can't stretch field

 

[Donnybrook]

This is surprising.

Chris Kluwe ‏@ChrisWarcraft

Sad to see so many people dumping on Percy on the way out. I can only speak for my own personal experiences, but he was a great teammate.

 

[carverlee]

Seriously it cracks me up that people do not understand the phenomenon that is Harvin. If he's so talented why isn't he being used? If he's so talented, where's the production?

True, Harvin has done Jack and squat this season. But guess who's name was brought up more than any other during the daily press conferences by the Dallas coaching staffs last week? It was #1: we have to know where Harvin is, #2 we have to spy Wilson. Cowboys did exactly that and were successful defensively, however I'd be willing to bet that if Seattle came out with the intention of running Lynch down their throat, they wouldn't have had an answer because they gameplanned so hard for Harvin.

Teams can't gameplan for everything.The league, the coaches, the media, they recognize what a talent Harvin is and know if he is not accounted for, he will kill you. It happens with players across the NFL every season. Teams, if they want, can take a player away. The good teams will beat you another way.

As for whether this trade is good or bad for Harvin fantasy-wise, my opinion is that it's awful. Harvin does have limitations as a downfield threat so the Jets will continue to try to get him involved in other ways. But teams will be keying on him and there's not enough else going on with the Jets to detract. I do think his presence will help the Jets offense immensely.

 

[Faust]

Vikings vindicated for trading Percy Harvin

 

[Faust]

Percy Harvin's long list of troubles, from high school to Seattle

 

[njherdfan]

mike freeman ✔ @mikefreemanNFL Follow

I think unfair to Jets but I'll pass along: in texts/conversations with 6 personnel men since Harvin trade consensus is Jets got fleeced.

I don't know how giving up a conditional 6th rounder and owing Harvin exactly zero $ down the road constitutes being fleeced. SEA got fleeced, NYJ got value.

Because the NFL media is a joke and the Jets are an easy target. The Seahawks gave up a 1st round pick and 18 million dollars for a few games of Harvin and they're savvy. The Jets give up somewhere between a 4th and 6th round pick and have Harvin on what are essentially 4 straight one-year contracts with no guaranteed money, and they're foolish.

 

[jurb26]

mike freeman ✔ @mikefreemanNFL Follow

I think unfair to Jets but I'll pass along: in texts/conversations with 6 personnel men since Harvin trade consensus is Jets got fleeced.

I don't know how giving up a conditional 6th rounder and owing Harvin exactly zero $ down the road constitutes being fleeced. SEA got fleeced, NYJ got value.

Because the NFL media is a joke and the Jets are an easy target. The Seahawks gave up a 1st round pick and 18 million dollars for a few games of Harvin and they're savvy. The Jets give up somewhere between a 4th and 6th round pick and have Harvin on what are essentially 4 straight one-year contracts with no guaranteed money, and they're foolish.

Yup, people love to make Sea out as infallible and the NYJ as a joke. This was a good move for NYJ. Harvin is a pretty cheap wild card for them. Maybe he's not the player people think he is, a solid WR1, but they didn't pay near that price. He's a dangerous weapon no matter how you slice it.

 

[ROYALWITCHEESE]

I remember in this thread back before Seattle acquired him, when I tried to explain he's a slant, out, screen, drag type of player. NOT a stretch the field type. I was ridiculed and "owned" for saying such. Two teams later, looks like I may have been right. Seems like folks are coming around.

I still think he can be a valuable fantasy asset, but IMO he will never take the top off the defense. I think the Jets can use him better than Seattle.

 

[Jeremy]

mike freeman ✔ @mikefreemanNFL Follow

I think unfair to Jets but I'll pass along: in texts/conversations with 6 personnel men since Harvin trade consensus is Jets got fleeced.

When your team is the defending champion, your team management can do no wrong. Similar to when the Personnel men were singing the praises of the Patriots when they acquired Albert Haynesworth and Ocho Cinco.

Yeah, nobody would be saying the Patriots got fleeced if it was them making this deal. There'd be Belichick butt kissing from the media and "personnel men" that would make Jon Gruden hang his head in shame.

 

[jurb26]

I remember in this thread back before Seattle acquired him, when I tried to explain he's a slant, out, screen, drag type of player. NOT a stretch the field type. I was ridiculed and "owned" for saying such. Two teams later, looks like I may have been right. Seems like folks are coming around.

I still think he can be a valuable fantasy asset, but IMO he will never take the top off the defense. I think the Jets can use him better than Seattle.

Definitely right about that. He's not a good down field WR. Never was. Maybe he can be... Someday? I'm not sure but doubt it. He's a great athlete and dangerous weapon. He just needs to be used properly and he can certainly produce and elevate his team.

 

[Donnybrook]

Even if incapable of taking the top off defense, which I don't buy, I don't think it diminishes his value. I would argue that the long bomb is in reality low percentage play. Dink and dunk is pretty much the norm in the NFL. A couple a weeks ago, I watched the KC chiefs run it up against the Patriots and they didn't go deep once.

 

[cvnpoka]

Have you watched many Seahawks games this year? Harvin was ok running the smoke and bubble screens and other short to intermediate routes, but wasn't great running his routes downfield. That's pretty much what I remember from his days in Minnesota. Problem is, Seattle loves to take shots downfield via play action. That's not Harvin's strength. Other factors are involved, but for many people that thought Harvin was an unnecessary luxury for Seattle from the start, it makes sense that they would cut their loses now. It was a failed experiment and Schneider was smart enough to move on (though foolish enough to overpay initially). But looking at the metrics, Wilson and the Seahawks were more efficient without Harvin on the field

How Harvin performs with the Jets is anyone's guess. He has the talent, but does he fit their system? He is a unique player, but not necessarily a great WR.

I don't understand why people believe that Harvin can't run routes past the LoS. Are people really trying to imply that 2012 Percy Harvin was on pace for 1354 receiving yards by running a bunch of bubble screens? The logistics of that don't even make sense. It's somewhat absurd.

He doesn't run great deep routes. That's been true for his entire career. I don't have the breakdown of what percentage of the yardage he had in 2012 was on throws greater than 20 yards down field, but I'd love to see it if you do.ETA- best I can do is find Y/R was 10.9 in 2012. That's an indicator that he wasn't catching much down the field.

That's because he wasn't catching that many passes down field for Minn, either. More than Sea, sure. He just isn't a very good down field WR no matter how people keep trying to spin it.

nobody is a good down field wr with ponder. he did fine with favre thol

 

[jurb26]

Have you watched many Seahawks games this year? Harvin was ok running the smoke and bubble screens and other short to intermediate routes, but wasn't great running his routes downfield. That's pretty much what I remember from his days in Minnesota. Problem is, Seattle loves to take shots downfield via play action. That's not Harvin's strength. Other factors are involved, but for many people that thought Harvin was an unnecessary luxury for Seattle from the start, it makes sense that they would cut their loses now. It was a failed experiment and Schneider was smart enough to move on (though foolish enough to overpay initially). But looking at the metrics, Wilson and the Seahawks were more efficient without Harvin on the field

How Harvin performs with the Jets is anyone's guess. He has the talent, but does he fit their system? He is a unique player, but not necessarily a great WR.

I don't understand why people believe that Harvin can't run routes past the LoS. Are people really trying to imply that 2012 Percy Harvin was on pace for 1354 receiving yards by running a bunch of bubble screens? The logistics of that don't even make sense. It's somewhat absurd.

He doesn't run great deep routes. That's been true for his entire career. I don't have the breakdown of what percentage of the yardage he had in 2012 was on throws greater than 20 yards down field, but I'd love to see it if you do.ETA- best I can do is find Y/R was 10.9 in 2012. That's an indicator that he wasn't catching much down the field.

That's because he wasn't catching that many passes down field for Minn, either. More than Sea, sure. He just isn't a very good down field WR no matter how people keep trying to spin it.

nobody is a good down field wr with ponder. he did fine with favre thol

Fair point.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Harvin is not a good WR, plain and simple. He's not a deep threat, and not big enough to be a possession WR. He's a stick figure more fragile than glass with a bad attitude.

Yep, he's a stick figure

Pfffttttt...T with T would beat him down.

 

[cvnpoka]

Seriously it cracks me up that people do not understand the phenomenon that is Harvin. If he's so talented why isn't he being used? If he's so talented, where's the production?

hes averaged like 70 yards from scrimmage for his career. id say thats fine production. esp considering his surroundings.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

mike freeman ✔ @mikefreemanNFL Follow

I think unfair to Jets but I'll pass along: in texts/conversations with 6 personnel men since Harvin trade consensus is Jets got fleeced.

If he sucks and he's a problem, they can release him and lose a sixth. If he performs well, they pay a 4th and get him at perhaps a slightly above market contract but have a ton if cap space.

Is Mike Freeman drunk?

 

[FreeBaGeL]

who was that idiot in minny who was puffing himself up thinking he 'stole' harvin from the pats in the draft?

Minnesota got 3.5 years of good production out of Harvin and then got a 1st round pick back for him to boot.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

According to NFL Network's Ian Rapoport, the Seahawks had been shopping Percy Harvin for weeks.

Multiple reports suggest Harvin's "anger management issues" led to his trade to the Jets. For the Seahawks, moving on from his contract gets them out of what's left on his $11 million base salary. Harvin has no guaranteed money beyond this year and would have been a release-candidate after the season regardless. It's still an admission of failure from Seattle after they gave up first- and seventh-round picks last year, and a 2014 third-rounder for Harvin. The Seahawks will save $6.47 million in cap space by trading him, which should help towards extending Russell Wilson.

Source: Ian Rapoport on Twitter
Oct 17 - 7:41 PM

 

[Crash Davis]

From RW:

The State Department released a statement indicating the Percy Harvin is the founder of ISIS. In related news, the CDC released a statement implicating Harvin in the spread of Ebola. The Fed is meeting Monday to discuss how Harvin drove down stock prices last week. The NOAA released a statement explaining how Harvin is responsible for the terrible drought gripping California.

I stole this for twitter.

 

[cstu]

Getting Harvin sets the Jets up to draft Mariota (if they can get him) or Winston.

As usual, I don't follow your logic. The Jets are not the worst team in the league and Harvin could help them win close games. As well, Harvin made Ponder look good so he could have a similar effect on Geno.

We'll see. I don't view Harvin as enough for the Jets to win a lot of games. Two of the worst teams (Raiders and Jags) already drafted QB's and would be happy to trade down.

 

[cstu]

Harvin is not a good WR, plain and simple. He's not a deep threat, and not big enough to be a possession WR. He's a stick figure more fragile than glass with a bad attitude.

Yep, he's a stick figure

Pfffttttt...T with T would beat him down.

6-3, 185, bruh.

 

[seahawk 17]

From RW:

The State Department released a statement indicating the Percy Harvin is the founder of ISIS. In related news, the CDC released a statement implicating Harvin in the spread of Ebola. The Fed is meeting Monday to discuss how Harvin drove down stock prices last week. The NOAA released a statement explaining how Harvin is responsible for the terrible drought gripping California.

I stole this for twitter.

So you're not funny and a thief.

 

[Donnybrook]

Getting Harvin sets the Jets up to draft Mariota (if they can get him) or Winston.

As usual, I don't follow your logic. The Jets are not the worst team in the league and Harvin could help them win close games. As well, Harvin made Ponder look good so he could have a similar effect on Geno.

We'll see. I don't view Harvin as enough for the Jets to win a lot of games. Two of the worst teams (Raiders and Jags) already drafted QB's and would be happy to trade down.

They don't have to win alot of games just one more than the Texans or the Titans. I can't see either team passing on a QB again. Also, Mariota and Winston don't have to declare if they figure the demand isn't there.

 

[identikit]

http://instagram.com/p/uUQwwOnCuh/

 

[Ignoramus]

Bump P Rich seems like the call here

Let's stop this lazy #### already.

 

[cstu]

Getting Harvin sets the Jets up to draft Mariota (if they can get him) or Winston.

As usual, I don't follow your logic. The Jets are not the worst team in the league and Harvin could help them win close games. As well, Harvin made Ponder look good so he could have a similar effect on Geno.

We'll see. I don't view Harvin as enough for the Jets to win a lot of games. Two of the worst teams (Raiders and Jags) already drafted QB's and would be happy to trade down.

They don't have to win alot of games just one more than the Texans or the Titans. I can't see either team passing on a QB again. Also, Mariota and Winston don't have to declare if they figure the demand isn't there.

In the last 9 games they play the Bills and Dolphins twice and I think they are still worse than both of them even with Harvin. They play road games at the Chiefs and Vikings. They also play the Steelers and Patriots at home - not games they are likely to win either. The game they have the best shot at winning against the Titans, which is at Tenn.

 

[jurb26]

Getting Harvin sets the Jets up to draft Mariota (if they can get him) or Winston.

As usual, I don't follow your logic. The Jets are not the worst team in the league and Harvin could help them win close games. As well, Harvin made Ponder look good so he could have a similar effect on Geno.

We'll see. I don't view Harvin as enough for the Jets to win a lot of games. Two of the worst teams (Raiders and Jags) already drafted QB's and would be happy to trade down.

They don't have to win alot of games just one more than the Texans or the Titans. I can't see either team passing on a QB again. Also, Mariota and Winston don't have to declare if they figure the demand isn't there.

In the last 9 games they play the Bills and Dolphins twice and I think they are still worse than both of them even with Harvin. They play road games at the Chiefs and Vikings. They also play the Steelers and Patriots at home - not games they are likely to win either. The game they have the best shot at winning against the Titans, which is at Tenn.

I think they can win at least 4 of those games. Many of those teams are worse than you think IMO.

 

[cstu]

Bump P Rich seems like the call here

Let's stop this lazy #### already.

Fine...

"Better Call Paul" Richardson

 

[cstu]

Getting Harvin sets the Jets up to draft Mariota (if they can get him) or Winston.

As usual, I don't follow your logic. The Jets are not the worst team in the league and Harvin could help them win close games. As well, Harvin made Ponder look good so he could have a similar effect on Geno.

We'll see. I don't view Harvin as enough for the Jets to win a lot of games. Two of the worst teams (Raiders and Jags) already drafted QB's and would be happy to trade down.

They don't have to win alot of games just one more than the Texans or the Titans. I can't see either team passing on a QB again. Also, Mariota and Winston don't have to declare if they figure the demand isn't there.

In the last 9 games they play the Bills and Dolphins twice and I think they are still worse than both of them even with Harvin. They play road games at the Chiefs and Vikings. They also play the Steelers and Patriots at home - not games they are likely to win either. The game they have the best shot at winning against the Titans, which is at Tenn.

I think they can win at least 4 of those games. Many of those teams are worse than you think IMO.

Can't see them going 4-5 the rest of the way, but perhaps 3-6 is realistic.

4-12 would still put them in the top 5. What they don't want to do is finish worse than both the Bucs and Rams.

 

[Onions]

This is surprising.

Chris Kluwe ‏@ChrisWarcraft

Sad to see so many people dumping on Percy on the way out. I can only speak for my own personal experiences, but he was a great teammate.

Has anyone actually seen a real quote, attributed to a person in position to comment on Harvin, that has bashed him?

Seems to me most Harvin bashing is being done by folks who don't want their name attached to their words and opinions.

 

[jurb26]

This is surprising.

Chris Kluwe ‏@ChrisWarcraft

Sad to see so many people dumping on Percy on the way out. I can only speak for my own personal experiences, but he was a great teammate.

Has anyone actually seen a real quote, attributed to a person in position to comment on Harvin, that has bashed him?

Seems to me most Harvin bashing is being done by folks who don't want their name attached to their words and opinions.

Isn't that kinda how bashing works?

 

[Doctor Detroit]

So he refused to go back in vs the Cowboys and also had a fight with Doug Baldwin this pre-season. But again, the bottom line is the guy didn't produce on the field. I was surprised at the trade when it was first reported, but it doesn't seem the Seahawks were interested in continuing this relationship and made a move.

He might work out fine for the Jets, who knows. He played well in the Super Bowl so as a fan I wish him the best.

 

[Run It Up]

This is surprising.

Chris Kluwe ‏@ChrisWarcraft

Sad to see so many people dumping on Percy on the way out. I can only speak for my own personal experiences, but he was a great teammate.

Has anyone actually seen a real quote, attributed to a person in position to comment on Harvin, that has bashed him?

Seems to me most Harvin bashing is being done by folks who don't want their name attached to their words and opinions.

Isn't that kinda how bashing works?

In 'murica

 

[skol asylum]

In PPR Harvin is about WR60. Can it get any worse for someone touted before the season as a top ten candidate?

Arent the rumors that Darren Bevell didnt know how to use him? Wonder if a team traded for him to not use him? I guess its possible since the Seahawks traded for him to not use him.

Percy was not being used in Seattle, so how could he have good numbers? When Percy was being used he was still explosive having 4 TDs called back this year on penalty. The odds say that the Jets plan to use Percy a lot with their lack of weapons. Really simple stuff actually.

How can some think his value is lower after the trade when it couldnt already get any lower? Because of Geno? If I recall he did well with Ponder at the helm. Anyone looking to act as if his value is not getting an uptick has an agenda or is just not understanding how a players value work works with upside.

Whats the point of having a good QB like Wilson if you are Harvin if they are not throwing to you or involving you.

Harvin was being used in Sea. How people continue to believe he was not is a total mystery. He was getting 5.4 targets per game and 2 rushes per game. He led the team in targets and receptions.

5 bubble screens and 2 rushes a game is pitiful for a guy they gave 3 picks and a huge contract to get. Redonkulous.

 

[Faust]

Browns, Broncos targeted by Seahawks in Harvin deal:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000412781/article/browns-colts-and-broncos-also-targeted-by-seahawks-in-harvin-deal?campaign=Twitter_atl

 

[identikit]

Seahawks tried get Julius Thomas for Percy Harvin:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/10/19/report-seahawks-proposed-a-harvin-for-julius-thomas-trade-to-denver/

 

[ROYALWITCHEESE]

In PPR Harvin is about WR60. Can it get any worse for someone touted before the season as a top ten candidate?

Arent the rumors that Darren Bevell didnt know how to use him? Wonder if a team traded for him to not use him? I guess its possible since the Seahawks traded for him to not use him.

Percy was not being used in Seattle, so how could he have good numbers? When Percy was being used he was still explosive having 4 TDs called back this year on penalty. The odds say that the Jets plan to use Percy a lot with their lack of weapons. Really simple stuff actually.

How can some think his value is lower after the trade when it couldnt already get any lower? Because of Geno? If I recall he did well with Ponder at the helm. Anyone looking to act as if his value is not getting an uptick has an agenda or is just not understanding how a players value work works with upside.

Whats the point of having a good QB like Wilson if you are Harvin if they are not throwing to you or involving you.

Harvin was being used in Sea. How people continue to believe he was not is a total mystery. He was getting 5.4 targets per game and 2 rushes per game. He led the team in targets and receptions.

5 bubble screens and 2 rushes a game is pitiful for a guy they gave 3 picks and a huge contract to get. Redonkulous.

Yes! They ONLY ran bubble screen and jet sweeps for him! Like "let's be sure to get Percy his 5 touches, then we can run the rest of our game plan in peace." I mean, the dude can catch slants, outs, drags, and even the occasional post!

 

[Acme CEO]

Schneider must have been smoking some high grade medical to be asking for Jordan Cameron or Julius Thomas for Harvin.

 

[identikit]

Schneider must have been smoking some high grade medical to be asking for Jordan Cameron or Julius Thomas for Harvin.

Well it is legal here in Washington.

Don't know if there were other considerations involved, but yeah it's pretty whacked on face value.

 

[Faust]

Percy Harvin on joining Jets: They got a lot of pieces

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000412829/article/percy-harvin-on-joining-jets-they-got-a-lot-of-pieces

 

[Acme CEO]

Schneider must have been smoking some high grade medical to be asking for Jordan Cameron or Julius Thomas for Harvin.

Well it is legal here in Washington.

Don't know if there were other considerations involved, but yeah it's pretty whacked on face value.

I'd like to hear the conversation he had with Elway.

"I know we whupped on you last superbowl, beat you again a few weeks ago, and could likely face you again this year, but how about you give me one of your most promising young players for our over hyped locker room cancer? What? Go do what to myself?"

 

[Hooper31]

Schneider must have been smoking some high grade medical to be asking for Jordan Cameron or Julius Thomas for Harvin.

Well it is legal here in Washington.

Don't know if there were other considerations involved, but yeah it's pretty whacked on face value.

I'd like to hear the conversation he had with Elway.

"I know we whupped on you last superbowl, beat you again a few weeks ago, and could likely face you again this year, but how about you give me one of your most promising young players for our over hyped locker room cancer? What? Go do what to myself?"

Never ceases to amaze me how quickly internet speculation turns into fact. We have no idea what was asked or offerred in those coversations.

I think the Jets got a great deal here. They have no financial commitment to Harvin after this season. If they want to keep him around it'll only cost a 4th.

 

[Faust]

Michael Robinson: I broke up Percy Harvin-Golden Tate fight

 

[Faust]

Percy Harvin trade factors: Russell Wilson relationship, Cowboys game

 

[Acme CEO]

Schneider must have been smoking some high grade medical to be asking for Jordan Cameron or Julius Thomas for Harvin.

Well it is legal here in Washington.

Don't know if there were other considerations involved, but yeah it's pretty whacked on face value.

I'd like to hear the conversation he had with Elway.

"I know we whupped on you last superbowl, beat you again a few weeks ago, and could likely face you again this year, but how about you give me one of your most promising young players for our over hyped locker room cancer? What? Go do what to myself?"

Never ceases to amaze me how quickly internet speculation turns into fact. We have no idea what was asked or offerred in those coversations.

I think the Jets got a great deal here. They have no financial commitment to Harvin after this season. If they want to keep him around it'll only cost a 4th.

Lots of thing amaze you. And no one's giving the Jets a hard time for what they paid.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Schneider must have been smoking some high grade medical to be asking for Jordan Cameron or Julius Thomas for Harvin.

Eh, you can't blame him for trying. All they can do is say no.

 

[seahawk 17]

Harvin was going to get cut....

http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId= ... m%2F%22%7D

 

[identikit]

I tend to believe Schefter.

Just because you weren't on the conference call to hear the specifics doesn't mean it's not worthy of discussion on a football message board.

 

[Faust]

Sunday notes: Examining Percy Harvin's potential impact on Jets' offense

 

[Hooper31]

Lots of thing amaze you.

Sure. Lots of things amaze me. The fickle opinions of fans that change from day to day. The way the media panders to these morons. The obnoxious posters that feel its important to save face.

And no one's giving the Jets a hard time for what they paid.

I don't disagree. Just voicing my opinion on the trade from their point of view. Any reason that's not appropriate?Edit: Fix quote tags.