Has PPR scoring become the new "standard" scoring? (1 Viewer)

[cobalt_27]

Anyone who prefers PPR scoring doesn't undestand the essence of fantasy football.

In fantasy football you try to make the best team as if you are a NFL general manager. Players values are determined by stats. What's the most important stat? Points. Next most important is yards gained. A reception is nice, but a 3 yard reception being valued higher than a 10 yard rush is inane. It skews a player's value in an weird way. Yeah short yardage TD vultures get skew stats some, but there are very few of those and like someone else said, if that bothers you make yardage more important in your league.

As far as making the positions of equal value, who is most valuable, well the o-line, but that is reflected in the postion players for that team so. Most important, QB-RB-WR-TE in that order, points should be skewed to that order because it reflects the value of that player to the team. Normal season top 20 players scoring should be 10-12 QBs, 6-8 RBs, 2-4 WRs. A whole another discussion about tiering effects could be here but most of you know that one.

I have no respect for PPR leagues or anyone who plays in them. For the layman, for the masses, not for the true player.

have fun.

I can fully understand and appreciate a man taking his fantasy football seriously. That's why most of us are here. Making character judgements about someone based on the fantasy point system they choose does seem a tad over the top though.

I didn't mean that if I saw you and were a PPR man I would spit on you or anything just that I don't respect you as a true fantasy football player. That you don't get the essence of fantasy football if you play it. It really bothers me that PPR is becoming more the norm than not. I guess it is the old school in the old man. Another subject for another thread is when people try to "even out the value" of the positions. Makes no sense to me why anyone feels the need to do that. I will never play in a fantasy football league that has PPR unless it is free with possible prizes to win, like on this site.

Haha. Stick it dude. I guess you can say that I'm old school, too. Been running my show for 23 years. And, we have been doing PPR for the past 16 years. Would never go back.Stay with your TD-only league, my friend. Calculate your scores with a calculator and a newspaper. You're, you know...old school that way. Most of us have evolved way beyond that.

 

[SSOG]

First, to each his own. (obviously)

My opposition to PPR is that a reception is, by itself, a non-productive stat. Yards matter, TDs matter.... receptions are no more, or less, important than a RB carry or a pass completion. PPR artificially inflate fantasy production.

I disagree. The argument for awarding a point for the reception is that you are rewarding the efforts made to earn that reception. A handoff is just that. Arguably much less skill in taking a hand off than it is checking the read on the corner, adjusting the route, coming out of your break, and on some occasions making a brilliant catch. The skill involved to earn that 10- or 20- or whatever-yard reception justifies the extra 1pt, and in theory, those who exercise those skills before they even see the ball, should be rewarded accordingly.

I think Lott's Fingertip meant no more important TO THE TEAM.If you asked a team whether they'd rather an RB have a 20 carry, 100 yard day or a 20 reception, 100 yard game (assuming all other things- first downs, big plays, TDs, etc- are equal), the team wouldn't care. Receptions are not inherently valuable. Yards are inherently valuable because they make it easier for you to score points and harder for your opponent to score points. TDs are inherently valuable because they put points on the board. First downs are inherently valuable because they give you more opportunities to score before giving the ball back. Carries and receptions, on the other hand, have no inherent value.

In fact, it could be argued that, assuming yards, first downs, and TDs are equal, receptions actually have a slightly NEGATIVE value. If one WR had 5 receptions for 100 yards, 5 first downs, and 2 scores... and another WR had 50 receptions for 100 yards, 5 first downs, and 2 scores, I would say that the second WR's team was more likely to have lost than the first WR's team. The 50 reception day was actually MORE HARMFUL to the team than the 5 reception day, because each reception represents a used down, so the second WR used 50 downs and didn't have anything more to show for it than the WR who used 5 downs.

Actually, that would be a very interesting fantasy concept- penalizing players for using up downs (a valuable commodity in actual football). Penalize QBs per pass attempt. Penalize RBs per rush attempt. Penalize WRs per target. Increase the yardage bonuses to make up for the penalties. I'd love to see a league where Frank Gore's 22 carry, 30 yard day last week didn't finish as one of the best games of the week.

I have no respect for PPR leagues or anyone who plays in them.

I have no respect for someone who has no respect for someone based on the scoring system of a fantasy league.

 

[fozzy fosbourne]

Actually, that would be a very interesting fantasy concept- penalizing players for using up downs (a valuable commodity in actual football). Penalize QBs per pass attempt. Penalize RBs per rush attempt. Penalize WRs per target. Increase the yardage bonuses to make up for the penalties. I'd love to see a league where Frank Gore's 22 carry, 30 yard day last week didn't finish as one of the best games of the week.

I'm curious how a per touch or play used league would work. With the increasing trend of larger RB committees and to a lesser extent what seems like an increasingly spread distribution in passing targets, it might help balance things out a bit. I've played in a per-minute league in basketball and it is a pretty cool change of pace (pun unintended). You basically have 48 minutes to fill at each position -- you order the players at each position and then the minutes get used as that player plays, so if your first pg plays 32 minutes and your second pg plays 10, and your last pg plays 34, you would get 32/48 of 1st pg production, 10/48 of 2nd pg production, and 6/48 of 3rd pg production. All of the sudden, efficient reserves become relevant. No longer are you totally screwed when your starter plays 4 minutes of a game and then limps out. No longer is a scrubby guy that plays a ton of minutes on a bad team more valuable than Manu Ginobili or whatever. The cream tends to rise to the top in a league like that. Of course the downside is that Joe Sixpack is totally lost in a league like this and can't really leverage their magazine cheat sheet or whatever.For football I imagine you would find the average number of touches at the RB position for NFL teams, plays used by the QB, WR, etc and then do something similar. The tricky part would be the TD vulture or the hail mary receiver, but as long as roster size is limited enough that you can't afford to roster a bunch of low-touch guys without risking not fulfilling your touch capacity, it could balance out (would probably need to add weight to yards too to dampen TDs). In the basketball team I mentioned, there was still alot of value in a guy that used alot of minutes at average efficiency because if you tried to load up on low minute but efficient guys your roster would not have the depth to survive injuries and you could have alot of minutes left unused. Just an idea. I think it would reduce some of the unpredictable variance that fantasy football has in spades, and would add a ton of depth to the player pool, specifically at RB where it seems to be drying up. If you're wondering, the basketball leagues were hosted at hoops.sports.ws. It looks like they had football once but it's defunct now.

 

[cstu]

I don't like when TDs account for so much.

There's a much simpler and more elegant way to de-emphasize TDs than propping up a random stat. You know, give fewer points for TDs. PPR was not started because people were watching the games and thought, "man, catching is awesome; we must give points for that." It was done as a clunky solution to balance RBs and WRs. There are much better ways to do that. The simplest is to have starting rosters requirements that more closely resemble how NFL teams actually play.

I've done that in the past (making TDs count less) and I do like that.I don't like PPR because it is in line with what's important in actual football (though I do like rewarding guy's with the skills to be effective in passing situations, thus being on the field and catching passes).

There are other, maybe more effective ways to de-emphasize TDs, but I think PPR helps with that.



The PPRFD would be more preferred over PPR, but I've never played on a site that supports that.

Is anyone playing one of these leagues yet? It's seems to be a good solution to the over-valuation of meaningless receptions. Ideally, I'd like to see .5 point for non-1st down but positive gain receptions and 1 PPR for 1st down.

 

[roadkill1292]

I don't like when TDs account for so much.

There's a much simpler and more elegant way to de-emphasize TDs than propping up a random stat. You know, give fewer points for TDs. PPR was not started because people were watching the games and thought, "man, catching is awesome; we must give points for that." It was done as a clunky solution to balance RBs and WRs. There are much better ways to do that. The simplest is to have starting rosters requirements that more closely resemble how NFL teams actually play.

I've done that in the past (making TDs count less) and I do like that.I don't like PPR because it is in line with what's important in actual football (though I do like rewarding guy's with the skills to be effective in passing situations, thus being on the field and catching passes).

There are other, maybe more effective ways to de-emphasize TDs, but I think PPR helps with that.



The PPRFD would be more preferred over PPR, but I've never played on a site that supports that.

Is anyone playing one of these leagues yet? It's seems to be a good solution to the over-valuation of meaningless receptions. Ideally, I'd like to see .5 point for non-1st down but positive gain receptions and 1 PPR for 1st down.

MFL and CBS both support scoring for first down receptions. But neither system can handle it in real time scoring, you have to wait until final stats are compiled by the league before seeing the points reflected in your game score. And IIRC, both systems also count a TD as a first down, a little detail to remember when setting up your league's scoring.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

I don't like when TDs account for so much.

There's a much simpler and more elegant way to de-emphasize TDs than propping up a random stat. You know, give fewer points for TDs. PPR was not started because people were watching the games and thought, "man, catching is awesome; we must give points for that." It was done as a clunky solution to balance RBs and WRs. There are much better ways to do that. The simplest is to have starting rosters requirements that more closely resemble how NFL teams actually play.

I've done that in the past (making TDs count less) and I do like that.I don't like PPR because it is in line with what's important in actual football (though I do like rewarding guy's with the skills to be effective in passing situations, thus being on the field and catching passes).

There are other, maybe more effective ways to de-emphasize TDs, but I think PPR helps with that.



The PPRFD would be more preferred over PPR, but I've never played on a site that supports that.

Is anyone playing one of these leagues yet? It's seems to be a good solution to the over-valuation of meaningless receptions. Ideally, I'd like to see .5 point for non-1st down but positive gain receptions and 1 PPR for 1st down.

MFL and CBS both support scoring for first down receptions. But neither system can handle it in real time scoring, you have to wait until final stats are compiled by the league before seeing the points reflected in your game score. And IIRC, both systems also count a TD as a first down, a little detail to remember when setting up your league's scoring.

to PPFDR

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

Anyone who prefers PPR scoring doesn't undestand the essence of fantasy football.

In fantasy football you try to make the best team as if you are a NFL general manager. Players values are determined by stats. What's the most important stat? Points. Next most important is yards gained. A reception is nice, but a 3 yard reception being valued higher than a 10 yard rush is inane. It skews a player's value in an weird way. Yeah short yardage TD vultures get skew stats some, but there are very few of those and like someone else said, if that bothers you make yardage more important in your league.

As far as making the positions of equal value, who is most valuable, well the o-line, but that is reflected in the postion players for that team so. Most important, QB-RB-WR-TE in that order, points should be skewed to that order because it reflects the value of that player to the team. Normal season top 20 players scoring should be 10-12 QBs, 6-8 RBs, 2-4 WRs. A whole another discussion about tiering effects could be here but most of you know that one.

I have no respect for PPR leagues or anyone who plays in them. For the layman, for the masses, not for the true player.

have fun.

I can fully understand and appreciate a man taking his fantasy football seriously. That's why most of us are here. Making character judgements about someone based on the fantasy point system they choose does seem a tad over the top though.

LOL

 

[Kleck]

Been playing in PPR leagues since 1991 and have preferred them ever since.