Has Randy Moss Secured His Place in Canton? (1 Viewer)

[B-Deep]

For those voting no, I suggest you look at the (very short) list of players that have scored 100+ TDs (20 to be exact) and see who lives in that rarified air. Unless they start playing 24 games a year, 100 TDs puts you in elite company.

oklets give a scenarioPast play indy. Harrison Wayne and company roll on the pats, and the pats lose big time. Moss gets only 2 catches ofr 13 yards, and throws a fit on the sidelines, gets in a screaming match with Brady, and the pats chemistry is shot. They get bumped from the playoffs and moss' numbers from here on out are pedestrian.Given his perception and his past, if he causes a distraction to this team do you think he would still be a hall of famer?In NO WAY do I think that any of the above will happen. My point is simply tha while his numbers are HOF worthy, his checkered past is an issue. He needs to record a couple of seasons as a good citizen (which he is doing now) putting up just average numbers, then perhaps I'd say he was a lock. But right now any number of off field issues or on field problems could damage his chances.So, if the question is 'Will randy moss make the hall of fame' the answer is a resounding YES. BUT, has he secured it, no. I can come up with scenarios which, while unlikely, are not impossible, that would potentially keep him out.

 

[David Yudkin]

For those voting no, I suggest you look at the (very short) list of players that have scored 100+ TDs (20 to be exact) and see who lives in that rarified air. Unless they start playing 24 games a year, 100 TDs puts you in elite company.

oklets give a scenarioPast play indy. Harrison Wayne and company roll on the pats, and the pats lose big time. Moss gets only 2 catches ofr 13 yards, and throws a fit on the sidelines, gets in a screaming match with Brady, and the pats chemistry is shot. They get bumped from the playoffs and moss' numbers from here on out are pedestrian.Given his perception and his past, if he causes a distraction to this team do you think he would still be a hall of famer?In NO WAY do I think that any of the above will happen. My point is simply tha while his numbers are HOF worthy, his checkered past is an issue. He needs to record a couple of seasons as a good citizen (which he is doing now) putting up just average numbers, then perhaps I'd say he was a lock. But right now any number of off field issues or on field problems could damage his chances.So, if the question is 'Will randy moss make the hall of fame' the answer is a resounding YES. BUT, has he secured it, no. I can come up with scenarios which, while unlikely, are not impossible, that would potentially keep him out.

I suppose he could kill his ex-wife and a friend with a knife, but that seems unlikely to happen twice in 20 years. Sure, ANY player (past or present) not yet in the HOF will have the same issues to contend with, so at this point NO ONE is a lock for the HOF that's not already in based on that.

 

[MarshallRob]

Here's what one actual Hall of Fame voter said about Moss' Hall of Fame case back in May:

As long as I'm a selector, the Canton Highway will be a very difficult road for Moss. I don't care how many great years he gives the Patriots. The guy's a dog, and there are too many people who spent years of sacrifice without getting a sniff from the Hall.

So far posters have emphasized Moss' great numbers. But you've got this whole other aspect to Moss' game. He's actually admitted to playing only when he wants to play. It's great that he's dominating right now, but he did essentially take the last two seasons off while being well-compensated to play. Other great receivers have given it their all on every play while suiting up for horrible teams. Dr. Z probably isn't the only voter for whom this stuff matters so the answer to the OP would be no.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

Here's what one actual Hall of Fame voter said about Moss' Hall of Fame case back in May:

As long as I'm a selector, the Canton Highway will be a very difficult road for Moss. I don't care how many great years he gives the Patriots. The guy's a dog, and there are too many people who spent years of sacrifice without getting a sniff from the Hall.

So far posters have emphasized Moss' great numbers. But you've got this whole other aspect to Moss' game. He's actually admitted to playing only when he wants to play. It's great that he's dominating right now, but he did essentially take the last two seasons off while being well-compensated to play. Other great receivers have given it their all on every play while suiting up for horrible teams. Dr. Z probably isn't the only voter for whom this stuff matters so the answer to the OP would be no.

I appreciate the link to that but I feel whoever that person is has the wrong idea. You have to judge Moss on his numbers and his play on the field. If that person thinks he could have played better at times, then maybe he thinks Moss could have been THE best receiver ever, because what he does regardless if he can play better or not is Hall of Fame Caliber material. The Hall of Fame shouldn't be watered down and I certainly don't want people voting subjectively on whether they think Moss's character doesn't warrant a place in Canton unless he does something like Pete Rose did.

When he retires, you need to take into account all of his numbers and whatever rings he may have and then compare that to the people that are in the Hall. If he matches up, he should get in, if he doesn't then he should be left out. I don't need some guy saying, "Ya, his numbers are great but I think he could have blocked better on some plays or I think he could have ran faster to catch a ball on a certain play." Let the numbers speak for themselves.

 

[B-Deep]

For those voting no, I suggest you look at the (very short) list of players that have scored 100+ TDs (20 to be exact) and see who lives in that rarified air. Unless they start playing 24 games a year, 100 TDs puts you in elite company.

oklets give a scenarioPast play indy. Harrison Wayne and company roll on the pats, and the pats lose big time. Moss gets only 2 catches ofr 13 yards, and throws a fit on the sidelines, gets in a screaming match with Brady, and the pats chemistry is shot. They get bumped from the playoffs and moss' numbers from here on out are pedestrian.Given his perception and his past, if he causes a distraction to this team do you think he would still be a hall of famer?In NO WAY do I think that any of the above will happen. My point is simply tha while his numbers are HOF worthy, his checkered past is an issue. He needs to record a couple of seasons as a good citizen (which he is doing now) putting up just average numbers, then perhaps I'd say he was a lock. But right now any number of off field issues or on field problems could damage his chances.So, if the question is 'Will randy moss make the hall of fame' the answer is a resounding YES. BUT, has he secured it, no. I can come up with scenarios which, while unlikely, are not impossible, that would potentially keep him out.

I suppose he could kill his ex-wife and a friend with a knife, but that seems unlikely to happen twice in 20 years. Sure, ANY player (past or present) not yet in the HOF will have the same issues to contend with, so at this point NO ONE is a lock for the HOF that's not already in based on that.

I'd actually agree. But the point was more, if Randy repeats some of his past actions and it hurts this team THAT could keep him out. I still think that is unlikely, but no one can say it won't happen. He has been an issue before, IF he were to be an issue again and drag down this team which appears to be historically great, it could keep him out.Again, I do not think that will happen, but it is not without some precedent for him.

 

[zoonation]

Yes, and IMO he was in before he left Minnesota.

I'm not sure if he was in before he left Minnesota and we'll never know for sure but I think he's in for sure.I also think Terell Owens is in too.

He is as big a no-brainer as Moss. When these guys (and Marvin) are done, they will likely be numbers 2,3,4 of all time (with the order yet to be decided). I see at least 4-5 more years from all of them.

 

[TommyGilmore]

But the point was more, if Randy repeats some of his past actions and it hurts this team THAT could keep him out.

His personality issues will be forgotten long before his stats will.

 

[B-Deep]

Yes, and IMO he was in before he left Minnesota.

I'm not sure if he was in before he left Minnesota and we'll never know for sure but I think he's in for sure.I also think Terell Owens is in too.

He is as big a no-brainer as Moss. When these guys (and Marvin) are done, they will likely be numbers 2,3,4 of all time (with the order yet to be decided). I see at least 4-5 more years from all of them.

again, if TO (and I am a cowboys fan here) gets into it with romo and ends up getting tossed out of dallas much like he was tossed out of philly and san fran, does he still make it in?perhaps, but there's no way I think he is a lock right now.

Marvin Harrison is probably close to a lock. Sure he could go all TO on the colts, but there's nothing in his past that makes this seem at all likely.

 

[B-Deep]

But the point was more, if Randy repeats some of his past actions and it hurts this team THAT could keep him out.

His personality issues will be forgotten long before his stats will.

Perhaps, but if he torpedos the Pats I would not feel good saying he is a lock for the hall.I think he'll do fine and he's gonna be in, but there is enough question in his past and his judgment that i cannot say he is a lock.

 

[zoonation]

Yes, and IMO he was in before he left Minnesota.

I'm not sure if he was in before he left Minnesota and we'll never know for sure but I think he's in for sure.I also think Terell Owens is in too.

He is as big a no-brainer as Moss. When these guys (and Marvin) are done, they will likely be numbers 2,3,4 of all time (with the order yet to be decided). I see at least 4-5 more years from all of them.

again, if TO (and I am a cowboys fan here) gets into it with romo and ends up getting tossed out of dallas much like he was tossed out of philly and san fran, does he still make it in?perhaps, but there's no way I think he is a lock right now.

Marvin Harrison is probably close to a lock. Sure he could go all TO on the colts, but there's nothing in his past that makes this seem at all likely.

When T.O is done he will have top 5 stats all-time. If he doesn't get in the HOF is a joke.

 

[MarshallRob]

Here's what one actual Hall of Fame voter said about Moss' Hall of Fame case back in May:

As long as I'm a selector, the Canton Highway will be a very difficult road for Moss. I don't care how many great years he gives the Patriots. The guy's a dog, and there are too many people who spent years of sacrifice without getting a sniff from the Hall.

So far posters have emphasized Moss' great numbers. But you've got this whole other aspect to Moss' game. He's actually admitted to playing only when he wants to play. It's great that he's dominating right now, but he did essentially take the last two seasons off while being well-compensated to play. Other great receivers have given it their all on every play while suiting up for horrible teams. Dr. Z probably isn't the only voter for whom this stuff matters so the answer to the OP would be no.

I appreciate the link to that but I feel whoever that person is has the wrong idea. You have to judge Moss on his numbers and his play on the field. If that person thinks he could have played better at times, then maybe he thinks Moss could have been THE best receiver ever, because what he does regardless if he can play better or not is Hall of Fame Caliber material. The Hall of Fame shouldn't be watered down and I certainly don't want people voting subjectively on whether they think Moss's character doesn't warrant a place in Canton unless he does something like Pete Rose did.

When he retires, you need to take into account all of his numbers and whatever rings he may have and then compare that to the people that are in the Hall. If he matches up, he should get in, if he doesn't then he should be left out. I don't need some guy saying, "Ya, his numbers are great but I think he could have blocked better on some plays or I think he could have ran faster to catch a ball on a certain play." Let the numbers speak for themselves.

I don't think the "dog" description relates to what we traditionally refer to as a character issue (like let's say Moss scrapes with the law or mooning antics or whatever). Dr. Z is referring to Moss dogging it on the field to the detriment of his team. Blocking's important. Running out routes are important even where the WR knows in advance he's not the target. Being willing to take a shot on a crossing route is important. Trying your best for a bad team you hate being stuck on is important. When a receiver doesn't do those things, he hurts his team's chances for victory. Taking account of those things IS judging a player by his play on the field.

 

[twitch]

Here's what one actual Hall of Fame voter said about Moss' Hall of Fame case back in May:

As long as I'm a selector, the Canton Highway will be a very difficult road for Moss. I don't care how many great years he gives the Patriots. The guy's a dog, and there are too many people who spent years of sacrifice without getting a sniff from the Hall.

So far posters have emphasized Moss' great numbers. But you've got this whole other aspect to Moss' game. He's actually admitted to playing only when he wants to play. It's great that he's dominating right now, but he did essentially take the last two seasons off while being well-compensated to play. Other great receivers have given it their all on every play while suiting up for horrible teams. Dr. Z probably isn't the only voter for whom this stuff matters so the answer to the OP would be no.

Jim Brown admitted to only playing when HE wanted. Should they have held him out, too? Here, read this -

Why Jim Brown didn't BLOCK.

What Moss does in the time he CHOOSES to play is significant.

 

[proninja]

Someone help me here - I thought it said "hall of fame" not "hall of nice guys" on the thread title.

I don't care that less talented guys have worked really hard and not gotten in. Bully for them. I'm not a fan of some of what Moss has done in his career, but ignoring what he's acomplished on the field seems to ignore the whole point of the thing.

Or is this some kind of "it's classless to score points" feeler shtick?

 

[TommyGilmore]

But the point was more, if Randy repeats some of his past actions and it hurts this team THAT could keep him out.

His personality issues will be forgotten long before his stats will.

Perhaps, but if he torpedos the Pats I would not feel good saying he is a lock for the hall.

One player is not capable of torpedoing an entire team (unless it's some kind of deliberate on-field action, like throwing a game or something). If the Pats fall apart, there will be plenty of blame to spread around.

 

[B-Deep]

But the point was more, if Randy repeats some of his past actions and it hurts this team THAT could keep him out.

His personality issues will be forgotten long before his stats will.

Perhaps, but if he torpedos the Pats I would not feel good saying he is a lock for the hall.

One player is not capable of torpedoing an entire team (unless it's some kind of deliberate on-field action, like throwing a game or something). If the Pats fall apart, there will be plenty of blame to spread around.

Who do you think would get the most blame?

 

[B-Deep]

Yes, and IMO he was in before he left Minnesota.

I'm not sure if he was in before he left Minnesota and we'll never know for sure but I think he's in for sure.I also think Terell Owens is in too.

He is as big a no-brainer as Moss. When these guys (and Marvin) are done, they will likely be numbers 2,3,4 of all time (with the order yet to be decided). I see at least 4-5 more years from all of them.

again, if TO (and I am a cowboys fan here) gets into it with romo and ends up getting tossed out of dallas much like he was tossed out of philly and san fran, does he still make it in?perhaps, but there's no way I think he is a lock right now.

Marvin Harrison is probably close to a lock. Sure he could go all TO on the colts, but there's nothing in his past that makes this seem at all likely.

When T.O is done he will have top 5 stats all-time. If he doesn't get in the HOF is a joke.

T.O. could be finished this sunday, ya never know.IF T.O. keeps up this pace and doesn;t have any more issues with being run out of town for fighting with his QB, he is an absolute no brainer.

I cannot tell you what is going to happen tomorrow though,

 

[B-Deep]

Someone help me here - I thought it said "hall of fame" not "hall of nice guys" on the thread title.I don't care that less talented guys have worked really hard and not gotten in. Bully for them. I'm not a fan of some of what Moss has done in his career, but ignoring what he's acomplished on the field seems to ignore the whole point of the thing.Or is this some kind of "it's classless to score points" feeler shtick?

I am not saying I disagreebut it is also the hall of "make sure the press thinks you deserve to be in"I think moss gets in, but I don't think it is a lock. Now if you are saying SHOULD it be a lock, I'd probably say yes. But you and I don; decide that.

 

[B-Deep]

Here's what one actual Hall of Fame voter said about Moss' Hall of Fame case back in May:

As long as I'm a selector, the Canton Highway will be a very difficult road for Moss. I don't care how many great years he gives the Patriots. The guy's a dog, and there are too many people who spent years of sacrifice without getting a sniff from the Hall.

So far posters have emphasized Moss' great numbers. But you've got this whole other aspect to Moss' game. He's actually admitted to playing only when he wants to play. It's great that he's dominating right now, but he did essentially take the last two seasons off while being well-compensated to play. Other great receivers have given it their all on every play while suiting up for horrible teams. Dr. Z probably isn't the only voter for whom this stuff matters so the answer to the OP would be no.

Jim Brown admitted to only playing when HE wanted. Should they have held him out, too? Here, read this -

Why Jim Brown didn't BLOCK.

What Moss does in the time he CHOOSES to play is significant.

This just gives me another reason to hate Jim Brown, not that I needed any more.:shovel:

 

[Buttmonkey]

Again, Moss's team mates have never stated he was a bad team mate.

Here's an example of Randy Moss that many of you don't know. I watched all the Minnesota games in 2004 and went to an away game in DC. During the season after scoring a TD, he on several occasions gave the ball to a disabled kid in the stands. At the DC game, during warm ups and just before he goes off into the locker for pre-game, he jogs over to a disabled girl and hands her the ball. He doesn't do this for publicity or to get peple to like him, he simply does not care if you like him or not. He speaks his mind and he wants to win badly.

Lastly, remember that Moss took a tremendous paycut to play for the Patriots. He could have made the Raiders pay through the nose (he was under contract), but he let them off the hook and the Patriots got the deal of the century. He won't be a distraction to the Patriots and he's exactly what they needed to get past Indy (yes, Indy had won the last 3 meetings).

 

[David Yudkin]

Lastly, remember that Moss took a tremendous paycut to play for the Patriots. He could have made the Raiders pay through the nose (he was under contract), but he let them off the hook and the Patriots got the deal of the century. He won't be a distraction to the Patriots and he's exactly what they needed to get past Indy (yes, Indy had won the last 3 meetings).

Moss was never going to see another dime of his contract from Oakland. While it's nice to say Moss was a good soldier and renegotiated to be able to go to NE, the fact of the matter is if he didn't he would have been released by the Raiders.

 

[ceo3west]

Moss is a first ballot hall of famer. Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.

 

[B-Deep]

Again, Moss's team mates have never stated he was a bad team mate. Here's an example of Randy Moss that many of you don't know. I watched all the Minnesota games in 2004 and went to an away game in DC. During the season after scoring a TD, he on several occasions gave the ball to a disabled kid in the stands. At the DC game, during warm ups and just before he goes off into the locker for pre-game, he jogs over to a disabled girl and hands her the ball. He doesn't do this for publicity or to get peple to like him, he simply does not care if you like him or not. He speaks his mind and he wants to win badly.Lastly, remember that Moss took a tremendous paycut to play for the Patriots. He could have made the Raiders pay through the nose (he was under contract), but he let them off the hook and the Patriots got the deal of the century. He won't be a distraction to the Patriots and he's exactly what they needed to get past Indy (yes, Indy had won the last 3 meetings).

and againhis team mates are not voting him into cantonHas the press ever said he was a bad teammate?that would be a resounding yes.Every member of the 90's cowboys dynasty would tell you moose johnston was as important to that offense as anyone, yet he'll never make the hall of fame.I think moss will make it, but when you look at his perception and the fact that as recent as last year everyone was writting he was done and he had no heart, no desire, and did not care, there are some reasons to think that while he deserves to be in, and likely will be in, it is not a lock at this point in time.People were acting like anyone who voted no is a moron who knows nothing about football. That's not accurate to me. I just think there are enough issues that COULD stand in the way of the arrogant and self absorbed selection comittee putting moss in IF his perception reverts back to what it was in minn and oak. I don't mind people disagreeing, but it is not a ridiculous position the way many in this thread made it sound.I am also pretty sure that a poll asking if TD was a lock for the hall of fame after the 1998 season would have been pretty heavy in favor of TD. Yet, he'll likely never get in.

 

[David Yudkin]

I am also pretty sure that a poll asking if TD was a lock for the hall of fame after the 1998 season would have been pretty heavy in favor of TD. Yet, he'll likely never get in.

The difference being, if in 98 the question was "if TD ever played another down would he be a HOFer," I'm sure even then many people would have said NO.I'm not sure what the intent of THIS POLL is, because if the same question were to be asked and Moss never played another down I would think Moss has had a long enough career to merit induction into the HOF.

 

[massraider]

WR career stats will continue to expand every year. The numbers that will be needed to get into the Hall will continue to grow.

Two or three stud seasons with Brady would probably do it, I would guess. But he also has plenty of time to smoke some cheeba, run over a woman, or quit on the Pats if things don't go well. That would undo a lot of good.

His best chance would be for him to stay in the public eye after he retires, like Irvin. Make friends with the guys casting the votes. Maybe find Jesus. That would be a power move.

 

[B-Deep]

Moss is a first ballot hall of famer. Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.

an absolutely ridiculous statement. You have no idea who else will be up for consideration when moss is.If Marvin Harrison and moss are eligible the same year it is likely moss does not get in on the first ballot. If Marvin Harison and Tory Holt both become eligible the same year there is no chance he is a first ballot.Perhaps he SHOULD be, but that's not the way the hall of fame selection works.

 

[B-Deep]

I am also pretty sure that a poll asking if TD was a lock for the hall of fame after the 1998 season would have been pretty heavy in favor of TD. Yet, he'll likely never get in.

The difference being, if in 98 the question was "if TD ever played another down would he be a HOFer," I'm sure even then many people would have said NO.I'm not sure what the intent of THIS POLL is, because if the same question were to be asked and Moss never played another down I would think Moss has had a long enough career to merit induction into the HOF.

My point was simply, no one knows what tomorrow will bring. Would you think if he has played his last down he was a lock?

 

[massraider]

Perhaps he SHOULD be, but that's not the way the hall of fame selection works.

This is getting ignored. There are other things that affect the voting. Who knows who else is eligible when Moss is? Who knows what his public perception is? Who knows how many other WRs have been voted in (There's already too many)?Right or wrong, this stuff all matters.

 

[CrossEyed]

Moss is a first ballot hall of famer. Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.

an absolutely ridiculous statement. You have no idea who else will be up for consideration when moss is.If Marvin Harrison and moss are eligible the same year it is likely moss does not get in on the first ballot. If Marvin Harison and Tory Holt both become eligible the same year there is no chance he is a first ballot.

Perhaps he SHOULD be, but that's not the way the hall of fame selection works.

Are you suggesting that Holt deserves to get in before Moss?

 

[Sidewinder16]

Perhaps he SHOULD be, but that's not the way the hall of fame selection works.

This is getting ignored. There are other things that affect the voting. Who knows who else is eligible when Moss is? Who knows what his public perception is? Who knows how many other WRs have been voted in (There's already too many)?Right or wrong, this stuff all matters.

Most importantly, the voters themselves.There's a big difference between who you (the average FBG) think is a HOFer (first ballot or not) and who the actual voters think is a HOFer.

 

[Capella]

61 people so far who apparently know nothing about the nfl.

 

[B-Deep]

Moss is a first ballot hall of famer. Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.

an absolutely ridiculous statement. You have no idea who else will be up for consideration when moss is.If Marvin Harrison and moss are eligible the same year it is likely moss does not get in on the first ballot. If Marvin Harison and Tory Holt both become eligible the same year there is no chance he is a first ballot.

Perhaps he SHOULD be, but that's not the way the hall of fame selection works.

Are you suggesting that Holt deserves to get in before Moss?

I am not suggesting anything about who deserves what. I am saying that having multiple WRs eligible the same year who are likely to get in at some point could EASILY bump moss from a first ballot. Do you think Holt is going to the hall of fame? And Harrison? Is there any doubt that voters will like those two PEOPLE better? Do you doubt that Holt could get in before Moss just because he is more likeable? I have no idea IF any of that will happen, but saying he is first ballot is ludicrous. Saying he deserves to be a first balloter I have no issue with.

 

[B-Deep]

61 people so far who apparently know nothing about the nfl.

exactly the kind of post I am talking about.

 

[ceo3west]

Moss is a first ballot hall of famer. Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.

an absolutely ridiculous statement. You have no idea who else will be up for consideration when moss is.If Marvin Harrison and moss are eligible the same year it is likely moss does not get in on the first ballot. If Marvin Harison and Tory Holt both become eligible the same year there is no chance he is a first ballot.

Perhaps he SHOULD be, but that's not the way the hall of fame selection works.

Are you suggesting that Holt deserves to get in before Moss?

Talk about ridiculous statements, that one takes the cake.

 

[CrossEyed]

Moss is a first ballot hall of famer. Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.

an absolutely ridiculous statement. You have no idea who else will be up for consideration when moss is.If Marvin Harrison and moss are eligible the same year it is likely moss does not get in on the first ballot. If Marvin Harison and Tory Holt both become eligible the same year there is no chance he is a first ballot.

Perhaps he SHOULD be, but that's not the way the hall of fame selection works.

Are you suggesting that Holt deserves to get in before Moss?

I am not suggesting anything about who deserves what. I am saying that having multiple WRs eligible the same year who are likely to get in at some point could EASILY bump moss from a first ballot. Do you think Holt is going to the hall of fame? And Harrison? Is there any doubt that voters will like those two PEOPLE better? Do you doubt that Holt could get in before Moss just because he is more likeable? I have no idea IF any of that will happen, but saying he is first ballot is ludicrous. Saying he deserves to be a first balloter I have no issue with.

Valid points.But I still think Moss will be in on the first ballot. And I don't even like the guy. When I think of great WRs, Moss is one of the first names that pops into my head. The guy is simply an amazing talent.

 

[B-Deep]

Moss is a first ballot hall of famer. Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.

an absolutely ridiculous statement. You have no idea who else will be up for consideration when moss is.If Marvin Harrison and moss are eligible the same year it is likely moss does not get in on the first ballot. If Marvin Harison and Tory Holt both become eligible the same year there is no chance he is a first ballot.

Perhaps he SHOULD be, but that's not the way the hall of fame selection works.

Are you suggesting that Holt deserves to get in before Moss?

Talk about ridiculous statements, that one takes the cake.

doubly so since it was a statement that was never madeYa gotta start reading people, and think about the process not about what you as a football fan believes to be true.

 

[redman]

Yes, and IMO he was in before he left Minnesota.

Not enough games there. I think he's in as a practical matter. I don't like the idea that he's loafed on the field and hasn't played hard when his team was struggling. There's no denying his physical talent, but there's a big hole where his heart should be.

 

[CrossEyed]

Yes, and IMO he was in before he left Minnesota.

Not enough games there. I think he's in as a practical matter. I don't like the idea that he's loafed on the field and hasn't played hard when his team was struggling. There's no denying his physical talent, but there's a big hole where his heart should be.

So you're saying he's the Grinch?

 

[Sidewinder16]

61 people so far who apparently know nothing about the nfl.

Or, so far, only 61 people understand that HOF voting is subjective and at the mercy of biased men who each have their own agendas.The question was (ignoring LHUCKS shtick) "Has Randy Moss Secured His Place in Canton?". Those voters determine whether Moss is securely in Canton or not.If the question had been "Do you think Randy Moss is HOF-worthy?", then I agree with you.

 

[TheCommish]

He's the best WR in the game when given the opportunity to display his talents. Oakland was (and still is) a place where WRs go to die. Moss made Culpepper a Pro Bowler. 'Nuff said.

 

[TommyGilmore]

But the point was more, if Randy repeats some of his past actions and it hurts this team THAT could keep him out.

His personality issues will be forgotten long before his stats will.

Perhaps, but if he torpedos the Pats I would not feel good saying he is a lock for the hall.

One player is not capable of torpedoing an entire team (unless it's some kind of deliberate on-field action, like throwing a game or something). If the Pats fall apart, there will be plenty of blame to spread around.

Who do you think would get the most blame?

If the Pats melt down and Moss plays a role, I'm sure that irrational Pats fans would lash out at Moss. But Belichick and the New England front office is ultimately responsible for how Randy Moss affects that team. And Tom Brady, as captain, also shares some of the responsibility. They all signed up for the program and they all agreed to the risks. But you can't lay blame for the bad without giving credit for the good -- there's no way the Pats would be undefeated if Moss wasn't on this team.

 

[MarshallRob]

61 people so far who apparently know nothing about the nfl.

Perhaps you could educate us.

 

[B-Deep]

But the point was more, if Randy repeats some of his past actions and it hurts this team THAT could keep him out.

His personality issues will be forgotten long before his stats will.

Perhaps, but if he torpedos the Pats I would not feel good saying he is a lock for the hall.

One player is not capable of torpedoing an entire team (unless it's some kind of deliberate on-field action, like throwing a game or something). If the Pats fall apart, there will be plenty of blame to spread around.

Who do you think would get the most blame?

If the Pats melt down and Moss plays a role, I'm sure that irrational Pats fans would lash out at Moss. But Belichick and the New England front office is ultimately responsible for how Randy Moss affects that team. And Tom Brady, as captain, also shares some of the responsibility. They all signed up for the program and they all agreed to the risks. But you can't lay blame for the bad without giving credit for the good -- there's no way the Pats would be undefeated if Moss wasn't on this team.

And none of this matters at all.If moss yells at brady and the pats lose to indy the headlines will be something along the lines of "Moss shows his true colors". and the people who vote players into the hall of fame are the people who write those stories.

Maybe YOU can't blame him for the bad and not give credit for the good, but the media can, and would.

His numbers are hall of fame, not a bit of doubt about it. His other issues are enough that I don't feel he is a "lock". He should probably be, but he needs to log time as a good soldier first.

 

[ceo3west]

Thought I would do some research on this. According to the HOF website, there are 18 WR's currently in. Here are ther numbers:

Rec Yds TD

Lance Alworth 1962-1972 542 10,266 85

Raymond Berry 1955-1967 631 9,275 68

Fred Biletnikoff 1965-1978 589 8,974 76

Tom Fears 1948-1956 400 5,397 38

Elroy Hirsch 1946-1956 343 6,299 53

Michael Irvin 1988-1999 750 11,904 65

Charlie Joiner 1969-1986 750 12,146 65

Steve Largent 1976-1989 819 13,089 100

Dante Lavelli 1946-1956 244 3,908 33

James Lofton 1978-1993 764 14,004 75

Don Maynard 1958, 1960-1973 633 11,834 88

Tommy McDonald 1957-1968 495 8,410 84

Bobby Mitchell 1958-1968 521 7,954 65

Pete Pihos 1947-1955 373 5,619 61

John Stallworth 1974-1987 537 8,723 63

Lynn Swann 1974-1982 336 5,462 51

Charley Taylor 1964-1975 649 9,110 79

Paul Warfield 1964-1977 427 8,565 85

Here's Moss at 30 years old: 716 11,310 109

That's 5th in receptions, 6th in yards, and 1st in TD's among all hall of fame receivers. If this guy is not a first ballot HOF'er, then that title means nothing.

 

[B-Deep]

Thought I would do some research on this. According to the HOF website, there are 18 WR's currently in. Here are ther numbers: Rec Yds TDLance Alworth 1962-1972 542 10,266 85 Raymond Berry 1955-1967 631 9,275 68 Fred Biletnikoff 1965-1978 589 8,974 76 Tom Fears 1948-1956 400 5,397 38 Elroy Hirsch 1946-1956 343 6,299 53 Michael Irvin 1988-1999 750 11,904 65 Charlie Joiner 1969-1986 750 12,146 65 Steve Largent 1976-1989 819 13,089 100 Dante Lavelli 1946-1956 244 3,908 33 James Lofton 1978-1993 764 14,004 75 Don Maynard 1958, 1960-1973 633 11,834 88 Tommy McDonald 1957-1968 495 8,410 84 Bobby Mitchell 1958-1968 521 7,954 65 Pete Pihos 1947-1955 373 5,619 61 John Stallworth 1974-1987 537 8,723 63 Lynn Swann 1974-1982 336 5,462 51 Charley Taylor 1964-1975 649 9,110 79 Paul Warfield 1964-1977 427 8,565 85 Here's Moss at 30 years old: 716 11,310 109 That's 5th in receptions, 6th in yards, and 1st in TD's among all hall of fame receivers. If this guy is not a first ballot HOF'er, then that title means nothing.

well that title does mean nothingHow many years have 2 wrs both gone in first ballot?Do YOU think he'd go in first ballot over Harrison first ballot?

 

[MarshallRob]

Here's another Hall of Fame voter, Peter King, quoting another Hall of Fame voter:

You have flooded my email box with Randy Moss thoughts, from every angle. Even one of my fellow Hall of Fame voters, Frank Cooney, who lives in the Bay Area and runs a draft and scouting site called NFLDraftScout.com, had some good thoughts, which I'll share later.

But before I get to your letters and his thoughts, let me just say that some of you have mistaken my criticism of the trade. I think Moss will play well for the Patriots -- very well. His career's on the line with this scaled-down, no-guaranteed-money, one-year contract, and he'll respond by being a good deep threat for Tom Brady, and I don't even think he'll make a single wave in the locker room all year.

But here's my point: This guy dogged his way out of Oakland, and the Patriots rewarded him by giving him a starting job on a three-time Super Bowl champion. Over the last few years, the Patriots have turned their backs on the vast majority of talented players who had some dog in them, or major problems off the field, preferring to go with character guys who played hard and shut their mouths. Though I believe Moss will play hard now, this trade breaks that Patriot mold.

Frank Cooney's point: "Moss should lose votes for the Hall of Fame if he actually rebounds and plays hard and well in New England. Why? Because that proves that he purposely disgraced the game of football by dogging it and quitting in Oakland when he did indeed have the physical ability to play. He was on a team that was hurting and needed help and he quit!

"Oddly, if he falls on his pratt in New England, he should probably be given more consideration for the Hall. Because maybe he just hit his career wall in Oakland after all, which isn't likely, but it's fair to give him the benefit of the doubt. And let's be clear that Randy Moss was indeed a Hall of Fame-caliber player before suiting up for Oakland. HOF voters are supposed to judge these guys ONLY by what they do on the field. Moss was an embarrassment to the sport on the field in Oakland. I was embarrassed when my grandsons watched him.''

So at least three current Hall of Fame voters, Dr. Z, Peter King, and Frank Cooney, don't appear to be on board with the "you know nothing about the NFL if you don't think Moss is a Hall of Famer" crowd.

 

[B-Deep]

Here's another Hall of Fame voter, Peter King, quoting another Hall of Fame voter:

You have flooded my email box with Randy Moss thoughts, from every angle. Even one of my fellow Hall of Fame voters, Frank Cooney, who lives in the Bay Area and runs a draft and scouting site called NFLDraftScout.com, had some good thoughts, which I'll share later.

But before I get to your letters and his thoughts, let me just say that some of you have mistaken my criticism of the trade. I think Moss will play well for the Patriots -- very well. His career's on the line with this scaled-down, no-guaranteed-money, one-year contract, and he'll respond by being a good deep threat for Tom Brady, and I don't even think he'll make a single wave in the locker room all year.

But here's my point: This guy dogged his way out of Oakland, and the Patriots rewarded him by giving him a starting job on a three-time Super Bowl champion. Over the last few years, the Patriots have turned their backs on the vast majority of talented players who had some dog in them, or major problems off the field, preferring to go with character guys who played hard and shut their mouths. Though I believe Moss will play hard now, this trade breaks that Patriot mold.

Frank Cooney's point: "Moss should lose votes for the Hall of Fame if he actually rebounds and plays hard and well in New England. Why? Because that proves that he purposely disgraced the game of football by dogging it and quitting in Oakland when he did indeed have the physical ability to play. He was on a team that was hurting and needed help and he quit!

"Oddly, if he falls on his pratt in New England, he should probably be given more consideration for the Hall. Because maybe he just hit his career wall in Oakland after all, which isn't likely, but it's fair to give him the benefit of the doubt. And let's be clear that Randy Moss was indeed a Hall of Fame-caliber player before suiting up for Oakland. HOF voters are supposed to judge these guys ONLY by what they do on the field. Moss was an embarrassment to the sport on the field in Oakland. I was embarrassed when my grandsons watched him.''

So at least three current Hall of Fame voters, Dr. Z, Peter King, and Frank Cooney, don't appear to be on board with the "you know nothing about the NFL if you don't think Moss is a Hall of Famer" crowd.

buthe is RADNY MOSS

and the FBG crowd who does not have a vote for actual induction are SURE he is a lock.

 

[ceo3west]

well that title does mean nothingHow many years have 2 wrs both gone in first ballot?Do YOU think he'd go in first ballot over Harrison first ballot?

If Harrison & Moss are eligible same year, they both go in first ballot. Yes it's rare for this to happen, but how many times have you seen two guys the likes of Harrison & Moss (at the same position) eligible in the same year?

 

[Tom Baker]

Moss before Harrison. No question.

 

[CrossEyed]

Here's another Hall of Fame voter, Peter King, quoting another Hall of Fame voter:

You have flooded my email box with Randy Moss thoughts, from every angle. Even one of my fellow Hall of Fame voters, Frank Cooney, who lives in the Bay Area and runs a draft and scouting site called NFLDraftScout.com, had some good thoughts, which I'll share later.

But before I get to your letters and his thoughts, let me just say that some of you have mistaken my criticism of the trade. I think Moss will play well for the Patriots -- very well. His career's on the line with this scaled-down, no-guaranteed-money, one-year contract, and he'll respond by being a good deep threat for Tom Brady, and I don't even think he'll make a single wave in the locker room all year.

But here's my point: This guy dogged his way out of Oakland, and the Patriots rewarded him by giving him a starting job on a three-time Super Bowl champion. Over the last few years, the Patriots have turned their backs on the vast majority of talented players who had some dog in them, or major problems off the field, preferring to go with character guys who played hard and shut their mouths. Though I believe Moss will play hard now, this trade breaks that Patriot mold.

Frank Cooney's point: "Moss should lose votes for the Hall of Fame if he actually rebounds and plays hard and well in New England. Why? Because that proves that he purposely disgraced the game of football by dogging it and quitting in Oakland when he did indeed have the physical ability to play. He was on a team that was hurting and needed help and he quit!

"Oddly, if he falls on his pratt in New England, he should probably be given more consideration for the Hall. Because maybe he just hit his career wall in Oakland after all, which isn't likely, but it's fair to give him the benefit of the doubt. And let's be clear that Randy Moss was indeed a Hall of Fame-caliber player before suiting up for Oakland. HOF voters are supposed to judge these guys ONLY by what they do on the field. Moss was an embarrassment to the sport on the field in Oakland. I was embarrassed when my grandsons watched him.''

So at least three current Hall of Fame voters, Dr. Z, Peter King, and Frank Cooney, don't appear to be on board with the "you know nothing about the NFL if you don't think Moss is a Hall of Famer" crowd.

Or maybe the entire offensive team and coaching staff in Oakland was just plain lousy.

 

[B-Deep]

well that title does mean nothingHow many years have 2 wrs both gone in first ballot?Do YOU think he'd go in first ballot over Harrison first ballot?

If Harrison & Moss are eligible same year, they both go in first ballot. Yes it's rare for this to happen, but how many times have you seen two guys the likes of Harrison & Moss (at the same position) eligible in the same year?

so then you are comfortable saying there is no chance that there are 4 other more deserving players, without even knowing who may be eligible???and you are wrong, if they are both eligible moss waits, because there are a ton of WRs in the hall already and they won't double up