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Has the cure become worse than the disease? (1 Viewer)

Has the cure become worse than the disease?

  • Yes

    Votes: 55 23.3%
  • No

    Votes: 159 67.4%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 22 9.3%

  • Total voters
    236
99% of the population that the virus doesn't pose a risk to?

I would eat anywhere tonight...I'm 45 and healthy.
Whether this is true or not I can assure you it’s not even remotely as easy as your implying. As a business operator trying to get my businesses reopened there are issues at every level. Regulations, employee and customer.  We’ve got a long way to go until large large large portions of the country feel the way your second sentence does.  

 
99% of the population that the virus doesn't pose a risk to?

I would eat anywhere tonight...I'm 45 and healthy.
I've got a wad of cash set aside just for this, eating out every single night for a month. 

And lol at contact tracing back to restaurants.  Good luck with that.

 
99% of the population that the virus doesn't pose a risk to?

I would eat anywhere tonight...I'm 45 and healthy.
Where is this 99% number coming from? Also, there is nothing stopping this virus from mutating into a deadlier form, in fact it's already mutated to become more contagious. But let's throw caution to the wind! Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die!

No thanks. I'm 34, but I have my kids and parents to think about. Besides, most restaurant food isn't that healthy anyway. I didn't drop 45 lbs to have subpar food.

 
I've got a wad of cash set aside just for this, eating out every single night for a month. 

And lol at contact tracing back to restaurants.  Good luck with that.
the contact tracing is a joke...we aren't South Korea.  It's something for the Democrats to hang their hat on during the election...a political ploy.  Americans will see right through it.

 
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Also, there is nothing stopping this virus from mutating into a deadlier form, in fact it's already mutated to become more contagious. But let's throw caution to the wind! Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die!
Many of us don't think the risk is what you imply it is, hence this thread.

 
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Where is this 99% number coming from? Also, there is nothing stopping this virus from mutating into a deadlier form, in fact it's already mutated to become more contagious. But let's throw caution to the wind! Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die!

No thanks. I'm 34, but I have my kids and parents to think about. Besides, most restaurant food isn't that healthy anyway. I didn't drop 45 lbs to have subpar food.
From the movie The Patriot:

Colonel Burwell: And your principles?

Benjamin Martin: I'm a parent. I haven't got the luxury of principles.

 
:thumbup:   Chime in if you're having an Opening America Up party at your house this weekend! 

Steaks for all the neighbors on the BBQ.  

 
From: https://www.epiqglobal.com/en-us/thinking/class-action-mass-tort/faq/government-regulation-business-faq

Restaurants are one of the most highly regulated types of businesses, having to be frequently inspected by the local health department to ensure they are complying with the regulation that exist to keep the public safe from food born illness. Ending these regulation would have serious negative effects on the public health as people would end up being served spoiled food that was prepared for them by the business owner to help his bottom line instead of being thrown away like regulations require. 

So no, we can't just let business owners make their own decisions, especially when it comes to public health. 
Different conversation in my opinion.

I'm referring to the ability to open their business

 
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:thumbup:   Chime in if you're having an Opening America Up party at your house this weekend! 

Steaks for all the neighbors on the BBQ.  
No but did hang out with friends last weekend in their new pool.  Was glorious and our kids felt like it was Christmas morning!   

 
The problem is that because of people tending to touch stuff wherever they go, a sick person can infect a lot of people, more so if distancing standards are relaxed. Businesses that relax restrictions further are asking for trouble if an asymptomatic carrier walks in and spreads the virus, because if someone actually started contact tracing, and traced it back to that business, who is going to want to shop/eat there?
That's the risk the business takes.  If they cant do it right.  They fail.  But at least they failed on their own.  They dont need the government deciding to make them fail

 
Pretty much everywhere that is opening up is requiring new government regulations because of the pandemic. No, we can't just let businesses make their own decisions on how to deal with the pandemic. 
Agreed there needs to be some structure and consistency but it can also go too far and massively constrain businesses. The last few days/weeks the latter is most certainly true in many parts (Cali in particular).  Unelected health officials can be the driving force, as they are now.   As usual the middle ground is the answer.  

 
:thumbup:   Chime in if you're having an Opening America Up party at your house this weekend! 

Steaks for all the neighbors on the BBQ.  
Out of town with the wife to a place that just reopened Thursday.....beautiful weather and no one around. Supporting one of our favorite places and easy to follow the guidelines. Hope you guys have a good one!

 
Agreed there needs to be some structure and consistency but it can also go too far and massively constrain businesses. The last few days/weeks the latter is most certainly true in many parts (Cali in particular).  Unelected health officials can be the driving force, as they are now.   As usual the middle ground is the answer.  
IMHO when it comes to dine in services, there is no middle ground that works. The current regulations, such as 50% occupancy max, will cause most dine in restaurants to lose more money trying to operate with the regulations than they would lose if they were closed. But if the regulations were lessened to the point where dine in restaurants could be profitable (which would be pretty close to 100% occupancy given the razor thin margins restaurants operate at), then it's probable that R0 of the area will go too high as a result. While it's pretty easy to know the restaurant needs to be close to 100% occupancy to make a profit, the problem is government doesn't know how much occupancy they can allow without causing the R0 to be too high. The only way they can learn is to experiment. The reopening with these regulations are all an experiment. If the R0 stays low, they'll reduce the regulations. If the R0 goes to high, they'll make them even stricter. 

 
IMHO when it comes to dine in services, there is no middle ground that works. The current regulations, such as 50% occupancy max, will cause most dine in restaurants to lose more money trying to operate with the regulations than they would lose if they were closed. But if the regulations were lessened to the point where dine in restaurants could be profitable (which would be pretty close to 100% occupancy given the razor thin margins restaurants operate at), then it's probable that R0 of the area will go too high as a result. While it's pretty easy to know the restaurant needs to be close to 100% occupancy to make a profit, the problem is government doesn't know how much occupancy they can allow without causing the R0 to be too high. The only way they can learn is to experiment. The reopening with these regulations are all an experiment. If the R0 stays low, they'll reduce the regulations. If the R0 goes to high, they'll make them even stricter. 
You know...I've come to the conclusion that you've given up.
You are prepared to let the government take care of you.

And...since misery loves company, you spend your time telling everyone that they are fools to try and to give up with you..

IMHO...NOTHING would upset you more than to watch those who try...succeed.

 
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You know...I've come to the conclusion that you've given up.
You are prepared to let the government take care of you.

And...since misery loves company, you spend your time telling everyone that they are fools to try and to give up with you..

IMHO...NOTHING would upset you more than to watch those who try...succeed.
More businesses will live through this than will not. I'm estimating around 30 to 40% of small businesses will close for good before this is over. 

Those that survive will do so by making the right decisions, one of which might be realizing that losing less money by remaining closed is better than losing more money by being open. 

Maybe I'm more aware of this because owning an ice cream business we knew that every December we could have lost less money by not being open than we lost by being open. But because our lease with our mall required us to be open we didn't have a choice. We would have loved to have the choice to be closed when the ice cream selling market was non-existent. And businesses need to consider that about their market today, especially given the regulation restrictions. We could have never made a profit without lines and crowds, so any regulation that would require us to break them up would have killed any chance of us being profitable. Is it too soon to open back up? It could be a "December" market for a lot of businesses that try to open up right now. 

 
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That's the risk the business takes.  If they cant do it right.  They fail.  But at least they failed on their own.  They dont need the government deciding to make them fail
The government isn't the one calling the shots here. The virus is. More specifically, our inability to stick to a plan to combat something that takes longer than 5 weeks, is what's calling the shots.

 
More businesses will live through this than will not. I'm estimating around 30 to 40% of small businesses will close for good before this is over. 

Those that survive will do so by making the right decisions, one of which might be realizing that losing less money by remaining closed is better than losing more money by being open. 

Maybe I'm more aware of this because owning an ice cream business we knew that every December we could have lost less money by not being open than we lost by being open. But because our lease with our mall required us to be open we didn't have a choice. We would have loved to have the choice to be closed when the ice cream selling market was non-existent. And businesses need to consider that about their market today, especially given the regulation restrictions. We could have never made a profit without lines and crowds, so any regulation that would require us to break them up would have killed any chance of us being profitable. Is it too soon to open back up? It could be a "December" market for a lot of businesses that try to open up right now. 
Let's assume that there are business owners who know at least as much as you think you do.
Let's also assume that there may be a few business owners out there who know more or different things about business than you do.

You may be the king of failed ice cream businesses but let's just hope that those who choose to open run their business fare better than you did and succeed.

Basing your opinion on the fact that you failed yourself, counts for squat when it comes to someone else's business.

The bottom line is that will never know unless they try.
Maybe you should spend your time wishing them all luck in their grand reopening and patronizing these businesses instead of trying to drag them down with you.

 
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IMHO when it comes to dine in services, there is no middle ground that works. The current regulations, such as 50% occupancy max, will cause most dine in restaurants to lose more money trying to operate with the regulations than they would lose if they were closed. But if the regulations were lessened to the point where dine in restaurants could be profitable (which would be pretty close to 100% occupancy given the razor thin margins restaurants operate at), then it's probable that R0 of the area will go too high as a result. While it's pretty easy to know the restaurant needs to be close to 100% occupancy to make a profit, the problem is government doesn't know how much occupancy they can allow without causing the R0 to be too high. The only way they can learn is to experiment. The reopening with these regulations are all an experiment. If the R0 stays low, they'll reduce the regulations. If the R0 goes to high, they'll make them even stricter. 
As owning and running restaurants my entire adult life your take on their ability to make profit is correct. But that only states to support my case that the current regulations are too strict. I’m not one that thinks we should not have locked things down, I agreed with the decision initially. But now with the data we have it’s pretty clear where the risks are and aren’t. There’s also enough data and information out there for customers to make their own informed decision.  I can assure you without the massively lobbied NRA (restaurant one not gun one) the current regulations would have been FAR more restrictive left only to the decision of health officials (who are always going to be Uber conservative).  There absolutely is a middle ground.  

 
As owning and running restaurants my entire adult life your take on their ability to make profit is correct. But that only states to support my case that the current regulations are too strict. I’m not one that thinks we should not have locked things down, I agreed with the decision initially. But now with the data we have it’s pretty clear where the risks are and aren’t. There’s also enough data and information out there for customers to make their own informed decision.  I can assure you without the massively lobbied NRA (restaurant one not gun one) the current regulations would have been FAR more restrictive left only to the decision of health officials (who are always going to be Uber conservative).  There absolutely is a middle ground.  
As I posted before....our restaurants can open with limited seating on June 1.

On June 1, my wife and I will patronize our favorite little Mexican restaurant and we're going to tip our waitress $100.
If I ever get in to get a haircut, I plan on tipping my cutter $50.
Instead of sitting back and hoping they fail....I'm going to go in, spend some money, and spread some more money to the employees who chose to come back to work.

My family and I were very lucky during this whole crap-storm and we plan on doing what I can to help get some people back in the race.

Just think how much this would help if more people did this.

 
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As I posted before....our restaurants can open with limited seating on June 1.

On June 1, my wife and I will patronize our favorite little Mexican restaurant and we're going to tip our waitress $100.
If I ever get in to get a haircut, I plan on tipping my cutter $50.
Instead of sitting back and hoping they fail....I'm going to go in, spend some money, and spread some more money to the employees who chose to come back to work.

I was very lucky during this whole crap-storm and I plan on doing what I can to help get some people back in the race.

Just think how much this would help if more people did this.
That’s awesome.  Wish more had this attitude. There is zero question we all need to put politics aside and come together if we all wanna make it out of this as unscathed as possible.   

 
That’s awesome.  Wish more had this attitude. There is zero question we all need to put politics aside and come together if we all wanna make it out of this as unscathed as possible.   
It's the only way we can do it.

My wife and I did not need that $2400 that we received from your tax dollars.
We simply stuck it in the bank.
At first, we said that if anyone of our kids need it, we'll let them have it.
Well, everyone so far, has made it through, unscathed and both of my daughters and their families did the same with the money that they received.

After hearing about all of the people who lost their jobs, we all decided that when things got back to normal, we'd spread it around.

I don't know anyone who knows anyone who got infected by the virus but I am not 2 steps removed from someone who lost their job.

We all plan on eating out more and making the day for our servers...and we're not even going to ask who they plan on voting for!

I would urge everyone here who did not need the stimulus money and still has it, to do the same.

 
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the contact tracing is a joke...we aren't South Korea.  It's something for the Democrats to hang their hat on during the election...a political ploy.  Americans will see right through it.
Tools that other countries sucvessfully used to beat this, tools recommended by our top epidemiologists, are a joke?

 
I planned to wait a while before heading out to a sit down restaurant after they opened back up, but the wife pushed hard for it tonight. 

Yesterday was our anniversary and the kids are with grandpa tonight. We figured we'd support our local spot. 

Reservations only. We called when they first opened and got one. Heard its already booked through the weekend. NC resturants just opened for sit down service today.

They asked we bring a mask with us, but unsure what the policy is going to be there. 

 
If business owners don't feel safe opening their businesses, should they continue to be eligible for the various small business support programs?

How about employees?  If they don't feel safe returning to work, should they still be eligible for unemployment or other government assistance?
What support program are you referring to?

Re: workers, in order to collect unemployment in the first place you have to answer a couple questions before filing.  One of them is, that you "are able and available to work."  If you refuse to return to work then you are required to answer no to that question. 

 
I planned to wait a while before heading out to a sit down restaurant after they opened back up, but the wife pushed hard for it tonight. 

Yesterday was our anniversary and the kids are with grandpa tonight. We figured we'd support our local spot. 

Reservations only. We called when they first opened and got one. Heard its already booked through the weekend. NC resturants just opened for sit down service today.

They asked we bring a mask with us, but unsure what the policy is going to be there. 
I'm sure that you'll need that mask to get in.
They may take your temperature.

But hey....the mask has to come off sometime!

Enjoy your night out.

 
Let's assume that there are business owners who know at least as much as you think you do.
Let's also assume that there may be a few business owners out there who know more or different things about business than you do.

You may be the king of failed ice cream businesses but let's just hope that those who choose to open run their business fare better than you did and succeed.

Basing your opinion on the fact that you failed yourself, counts for squat when it comes to someone else's business.

The bottom line is that will never know unless they try.
Maybe you should spend your time wishing them all luck in their grand reopening and patronizing these businesses instead of trying to drag them down with you.
If you don't like what I have to say, then put me on ignore. No one is requiring you to give my opinion any value at all. 

 
Then don't.

Nothing that I post will change your mind.
Come on now, I'm open to ideas but I'm not watching a video.  I like to skim and cross reference, and the audio will annoy my wife.

If you won't take the time to articulate the idea in text, its provably not worth discussing anyhow. 

 
Come on now, I'm open to ideas but I'm not watching a video.  I like to skim and cross reference, and the audio will annoy my wife.

If you won't take the time to articulate the idea in text, its provably not worth discussing anyhow. 
Probably not.

 
As I posted before....our restaurants can open with limited seating on June 1.

On June 1, my wife and I will patronize our favorite little Mexican restaurant and we're going to tip our waitress $100.
If I ever get in to get a haircut, I plan on tipping my cutter $50.
Instead of sitting back and hoping they fail....I'm going to go in, spend some money, and spread some more money to the employees who chose to come back to work.

My family and I were very lucky during this whole crap-storm and we plan on doing what I can to help get some people back in the race.

Just think how much this would help if more people did this.
:hifive:

We're trying to spread the wealth some too by using the stimulus money to pull some discretionary purchases forward in time.  It's a little more "macro" than your ideas, but intent is the same.  If everyone who can afford to do it spent their checks it would definitely have an impact on the overall economy.

 
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As owning and running restaurants my entire adult life your take on their ability to make profit is correct. But that only states to support my case that the current regulations are too strict. I’m not one that thinks we should not have locked things down, I agreed with the decision initially. But now with the data we have it’s pretty clear where the risks are and aren’t. There’s also enough data and information out there for customers to make their own informed decision.  I can assure you without the massively lobbied NRA (restaurant one not gun one) the current regulations would have been FAR more restrictive left only to the decision of health officials (who are always going to be Uber conservative).  There absolutely is a middle ground.  
I appreciate the response. But I find you contradicting yourself. You initially state that the current regulations are too strict (which I agree with). You then state the NRA's influence is why the current regulations aren't even stricter (which I also agree with). But then you state there absolutely is a middle ground? Okay... where is it? 

In my opinion governments are going to have to be willing to allow 100% occupancy for dine in restaurants for them to return to profitability. That's not a middle ground. That's the government saying their done limiting it. At the very least it would have to be 85%+ occupancy. At that point, why even restrict it at all? 

 

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