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*** HBO Hard Knocks 2024 *** (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Encyclopedia Brown
Footballguy
The Bears seemed the inevitable choice.
Faust
MVP
I’m curious about the reaction so far to Hard Knocks from @The Frankman and other fans of the Giants
The Frankman
Footballguy
It's really eye-opening. I'm watching replays on sites but to see the day-to-day of how the (arguably disrespectful) Saquon Barkley negotiations went with Joe Schoen to the surprising nature of how the Brian Burns trade might have started during the NFL Draft ("wanna give 2 #1s for Brian Burns?") ... there have been some gems for sure.
TripItUp
Footballguy
I don't see it as disrespectful.
GM is charged with building a winner and re-upping on a 27 year old RB doesn't make sense in their position. It's a very acceptable stance.
What was more telling to me is how pissed Saquon sounded...he does not like Schoen and I'm guessing that stems from the franchise tag stuff the prior year.
I'm loving this series...a much more in depth look at the offseason front office stuff that's ever been shown before (that I'm aware of)
GM is charged with building a winner and re-upping on a 27 year old RB doesn't make sense in their position. It's a very acceptable stance.
What was more telling to me is how pissed Saquon sounded...he does not like Schoen and I'm guessing that stems from the franchise tag stuff the prior year.
I'm loving this series...a much more in depth look at the offseason front office stuff that's ever been shown before (that I'm aware of)
The Frankman
Footballguy
I mean they disrespected him for 3 years with the contract talk and the leaks ("he asked for $15 million"). You don't treat your best offensive player and the face of the franchise like crap in the sense that they never really sat down and offered him a contract equal to his status, I'm, sorry. Saquon was very transparent in his wishes over the years, and the Giants basically said for him to shop around twice.
Yenrub
Footballguy
I’ll add that Schoen seems like he took the previous Barkley negotiations personally.
Some other things
The decision to go after Burns instead of Wilkins was interesting to hear.
Where has offensive coordinator Mike Kafka been in all of these offensive conversations?
The assistant GM Brown, won’t be an assistant for long, he will get a GM job in the next season or two.
Dabol talking to QB in the meetings was fascinating.
TripItUp
Footballguy
yeah, I liked that part...Daboll interrupting them mid sentence asking the QBs to repeat the playcall was a short term memory test that seemed to rattle the kids.,,.borderline rude but I get that this isn't a normal interview.
Favorite play discussions also interesting. The combine interviews/discussions was my favorite part.
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Yenrub
Footballguy
Saquon signed a 3-year contract with the Eagles.
3 years 37.5 million (26 guaranteed) that’s 12.5 million per year.
A similar deal to what the Giants allegedly made in 2022.
It’s been reported that during the bye week of 2022 the Giants offered Barkley a deal worth more than 12 million dollars per year. They then upped the offer to 13 per year after that season. I have not seen anyone report what the guarantees were though.
https://www.nj.com/giants/2023/05/g...-is-there-any-clear-path-to-a-settlement.html
They signed a 27 year old RB to replace him.
TripItUp
Footballguy
not for 25 guaranteed
Sure, but essentially for about $11.5, like I said earlier in range, it's not like NFL salary caps are getting hammered over what amounts to about $6M a year. If age was a reason to not extend Barkely not sure how you can make a case throwing that money at Singletary made any sense.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Singletary cap hit
2024: 3.75M
2025: 6.25M
2026: 6.5M
Saquon cap hit
2024: 3.8M
2025: 5.5M
2026: 9.0M
2027: Void - 19.3M
Yenrub
Footballguy
I recall reading that Schoen’s philosophy is to try to avoid using void years and stay as close to so called true or straight cap hits
osubuckeyeman
Footballguy
My impression of the Barkley discussion is based on what we saw on the show. The Giants were willing to lose Barkley instead of making an offer. Why not just make an offer? It was pretty apparent, and I guess Barkley felt the same way. He said, " You mean circle back?
How about you make him an offer instead of letting the market tell him his worth? The Giant's ring of honor mentioned as part of the reason to stay was pretty funny. This is a business, Joe. It's a weird way of asking for a hometown discount. I think the Giants wanted to let Barkley walk but wanted to save face by doing so. I can respect that. The actual question was the St. Elmo's shrimp cocktail. I don't think that looked that good. Just bring me the steak, please.
How about you make him an offer instead of letting the market tell him his worth? The Giant's ring of honor mentioned as part of the reason to stay was pretty funny. This is a business, Joe. It's a weird way of asking for a hometown discount. I think the Giants wanted to let Barkley walk but wanted to save face by doing so. I can respect that. The actual question was the St. Elmo's shrimp cocktail. I don't think that looked that good. Just bring me the steak, please.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
I wonder if Barkley has October 20th circled on the schedule.
I feel like Schoen is coming off pretty solid so far, and I'm enjoying the look into FO stuff a lot more than the typical player/HC centric stuff.
The scenes with Daboll and the rookie QB prospects was really interesting, and I thought made Williams look pretty clearly ahead of the other guys when it came to memory and understanding play design concepts. Daniels especially looked lost.
I thought the Barkley stuff was very fair to Barkley. Unfair would have been tagging him and then being like, "find a better offer so we can trade you"
The scenes with Daboll and the rookie QB prospects was really interesting, and I thought made Williams look pretty clearly ahead of the other guys when it came to memory and understanding play design concepts. Daniels especially looked lost.
I thought the Barkley stuff was very fair to Barkley. Unfair would have been tagging him and then being like, "find a better offer so we can trade you"
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
At the very least, when Saquon said there was no offer from the Giants, the last episode confirmed it. I'm still surprised the Eagles broke with their team-building philosophy and spent big on the RB position. I would have never guess that in a million years.
Terpman22
Footballguy
The ## seems big but as % of the cap, its pretty small. Howie with the classic "zig when they zag" style here is what it sounds like.
And the Giants, I mean, I'd be pissed at them if I were Saquon, what else can you really do other than accept an offer that his half your value.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Part of the price is not having to face him twice a year.
Felt like the Giants should have at least made him an offer.
Giants owner Mara goes I'll have a hard time sleeping if Saquon goes to Philadelphia. Saquon is our most popular player by far.
Giants sign John Runyan they had to outbid the Jets. Jermaine Eluemunor is signed by the Giants.
Joe talks to Saquon's agent. Overall Joe has been looking to nickel and dime. Looking for a discount. Afraid of making a fair offer. In the past he's used the ring of honor as a lame bargaining chip. Joe how about you do your job make a fair offer. Instead of acting like your interested in Saquon. At one point Joe goes were out were not going to 12.5 million a year. After he says there out he's more concerned about Saquon going to a team within the division.
Joe was willing to threw a few extra million dollars at lineman and Brian Burns. But looking to takeaway / devalued Saquon. I get it the RB position has been seriously devalued and disrespected over the years.
Joe talks about the free agent board coming up with offers, doing all the homework. Goes we have no control over the board. All the work, all the meetings all the price points and we have no control. Staying up until 5am.
Giants sign John Runyan they had to outbid the Jets. Jermaine Eluemunor is signed by the Giants.
Joe talks to Saquon's agent. Overall Joe has been looking to nickel and dime. Looking for a discount. Afraid of making a fair offer. In the past he's used the ring of honor as a lame bargaining chip. Joe how about you do your job make a fair offer. Instead of acting like your interested in Saquon. At one point Joe goes were out were not going to 12.5 million a year. After he says there out he's more concerned about Saquon going to a team within the division.
Joe was willing to threw a few extra million dollars at lineman and Brian Burns. But looking to takeaway / devalued Saquon. I get it the RB position has been seriously devalued and disrespected over the years.
Joe talks about the free agent board coming up with offers, doing all the homework. Goes we have no control over the board. All the work, all the meetings all the price points and we have no control. Staying up until 5am.
Kevrunner
Footballguy
Can’t believe I am enjoying Hard Knocks after all of these years. Wish they did a few more teams, instead of just one. It was very entertaining seeing how the Giants front office handled the free agent frenzy, the draft will be as interesting I’m sure. Anyway, looking forward to next week’s episode.
At a price that helped them sign 2 offensive linemen that upgraded arguably the biggest area of needed upgrading
You get what you pay for
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
I wouldn't say the Giants upgraded the line. They signed two guys.
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
Can't it be both? - (Family Guy reference)
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Isn't the price of the two RBs equivalent over the next two years?
Desert_Power
Footballguy
It's a really interesting show for sure. GM looks completely out of his depth though. Not sure any other front office is going to sign up for this.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
I would like to see this with a Superbowl contending front office to get a comparison of how similar/different things are.
I did find it funny that they said they had a walk away price of $6M for Eluemenor and then the very next graphic was them signing him for $7M. Why even put in work and get a walk away price if you're not going to trust your evaluations.
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Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Saquon Barkley cap hits: $3.8M, $5.5M and $9M
Devin Singletary cap hits: $3.75M, $6.25M and $6.5M
Who are better than the two guys they will be replacing. That would be an upgrade
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Howie Roseman disagrees.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Sure, they went from terrible to really bad. Upgrade.
Terpman22
Footballguy
I can't stop seeing Phil Dunphy from Modern Family whenever this guy talks. He seems...nice, but also like...I feel I could do this job just as well. Am I crazy for thinking this?
