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HBO - Song of Ice&Fire Series -Varsity Thread - no TV only whiners (3 Viewers)

If you are going to leave Jon truly dead, why even film the staredown during the Hardhome battle? Why bother having Jon be the one who learns about dragon glass and Valryian steel, burning the dead, etc. to just snuff him? Getting a little late in the game to go to the "kill a protagonist" well again.

That's why I think he has to come back in some form.

Even Southpark eventually lightened up on killing Kenny at some point.
Yeah, seems like a lot of expense to have him come in and play his own dead body in an episode. My guess they wanted to really throw all the speculators and book readers off by showing him really dead, only to revive him a few episodes in as more of a surprise.

Well, either that or they wanted to definitively show he was really, really dead.

Edit: Loved Ghost howling at the beginning of the episode. Really hate they dropped so much of the book stuff around the direwolves.

 
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Yeah, seems like a lot of expense to have him come in and play his own dead body in an episode. My guess they wanted to really throw all the speculators and book readers off by showing him really dead, only to revive him a few episodes in as more of a surprise.

Well, either that or they wanted to definitively show he was really, really dead.

Edit: Loved Ghost howling at the beginning of the episode. Really hate they dropped so much of the book stuff around the direwolves.
I mean, he could've easily filmed that scene last season.

 
Yeah, Snow is coming back, the question is how.  

I thought that maybe they were showing Melisandre sort of giving up because Stannis is dead, but presumably she'll somehow bring Snow back and have her new Azor Ahai.  Probably through some last fire-jitsu during Thorne's midnight attack.

 
Its a ####ed up storyline in the books as well, although is a cool place with cool characters in both book and show.
Well frustrating they are wasting some awesome characters from the book,  but mostly just seems like a rare case of very poor planning or writing which this show rarely suffers from. You spend an entire season setting up the Martell's as powerful rulers, showing the Snakes fearing him, etc. only to kill them off in a brief scene in the next season premier. Almost like they realized the whole setup/plot in the prior season wasn't working and decided to go another direction.

First thing I thought of honestly was Dexter's poor later seasons when they would spend an entire season developing some characters plotlines and then totally abandon them/resolve them/kill them off in a few mins in the following season premier.

 
I mean, he could've easily filmed that scene last season.
Possible, but there were multiple scenes his body was in.

Also, (spoiler warning)

In the tv only thread, someone dropped the spoilers that Kit Harrington had been seen on set filming for the new season.

 
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I think it would be great if Melissandre brought Jon Snow back, and then he dies for real falling down some stairs one episode later.  

 
Yeah, Snow is coming back, the question is how.  

I thought that maybe they were showing Melisandre sort of giving up because Stannis is dead, but presumably she'll somehow bring Snow back and have her new Azor Ahai.  Probably through some last fire-jitsu during Thorne's midnight attack.
Maybe she looks into the flames one last time and sees Jon Snow as Azor Ahai.

 
Well frustrating they are wasting some awesome characters from the book,  but mostly just seems like a rare case of very poor planning or writing which this show rarely suffers from. You spend an entire season setting up the Martell's as powerful rulers, showing the Snakes fearing him, etc. only to kill them off in a brief scene in the next season premier. Almost like they realized the whole setup/plot in the prior season wasn't working and decided to go another direction.

First thing I thought of honestly was Dexter's poor later seasons when they would spend an entire season developing some characters plotlines and then totally abandon them/resolve them/kill them off in a few mins in the following season premier.
They spent the season setting up the sandsnakes.

 
We were never really on the rails with Dorne.

Brienne, Sansa, and Davos are all POV characters off the rails.
Davos is like the little engine that could.  

Plugging along, not particularly exciting, loyal to least exciting wanna-be king out there, now he's sitting in a very interesting spot, in a much more interesting part of Westeros.

 
I don't think the Dorne storyline is too big of a departure. I think that's where GRRM was headed anyway.

It will be interesting to see if they tie in the outreach to Dany (and how do they do it? 3 on 1 Dany sandsnake action rawr!)

ETA: headed there with a slightly different protagonist (or two) in any event

 
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If you are going to leave Jon truly dead, why even film the staredown during the Hardhome battle? Why bother having Jon be the one who learns about dragon glass and Valryian steel, burning the dead, etc. to just snuff him? Getting a little late in the game to go to the "kill a protagonist" well again.

That's why I think he has to come back in some form.

Even Southpark eventually lightened up on killing Kenny at some point.
Sometimes life sucks and takes a cruel turn. I think he comes back but would have no issue leaving him dead. Though at that point I'd be rooting for the White Walkers to win. 

 
Real question is when tommen dies. Who is in line to get that crown?? All his uncles and siblings are dead.  I think they kill the boy off this season for some more chaos

 
There isn't any successor in Dorne to take over is there?  Can a ******* rule?
In the show, they've repeatedly told us Dorne looks at the world a little differently. And the show told us Dorne is ready for change. And the book showed us that they were going to fight hard against traditional succession rules (Arienne Martell's plan to make Marcella the "King"). 

******* shmastard. Consolidation of storylines, etc.

 
The whole storyline in Dorne revolved around the idea that a woman should be able to take over.  That women shouldn't be passed over in the line of succession.  Natural storyline there?
Right, they follow a true succession, not male dominated succession.  But there aren't any trueborn heirs left are there?  Only bastards.

 
On a serious note, the show definitely seems to be suffering from a lack of source material at this point. I sure hope Martin finishes the books.

 
Yeah, Snow is coming back, the question is how.  

I thought that maybe they were showing Melisandre sort of giving up because Stannis is dead, but presumably she'll somehow bring Snow back and have her new Azor Ahai.  Probably through some last fire-jitsu during Thorne's midnight attack.


WTF?

 
Much of last season also. I think the only plus addition outside the source material was the Hardhome battle. I'm not saying the show sucks, but it's taken a dip as they've left the books farther and farther behind.
The thing is it's not even just where they've left the books behind.  Here's what Doran had to say about he and Oberyn in the books;

"I am not blind, nor deaf. I know you all believe me weak, frightened, feeble. Your father knew me better. Oberyn was ever the viper. Deadly, dangerous, unpredictable. No man dared tread on him. I was the grass. Pleasant, complaisant, sweet-smelling, swaying with every breeze. Who fears to walk upon the grass? But it is the grass that hides the viper from his enemies and shelters him until he strikes."

Is that 1000 times better than the similar passage from last night, or just 100?  Why would you not use great writing like that?

 
Much of last season also. I think the only plus addition outside the source material was the Hardhome battle. I'm not saying the show sucks, but it's taken a dip as they've left the books farther and farther behind.
and the last 3 episodes of the 5th season were pretty great too. Such dire doom and gloom. Rewatched them recently and was re-shocked at how bleak things were. Not your ma and pa's drama.

 
The thing is it's not even just where they've left the books behind.  Here's what Doran had to say about he and Oberyn in the books;

"I am not blind, nor deaf. I know you all believe me weak, frightened, feeble. Your father knew me better. Oberyn was ever the viper. Deadly, dangerous, unpredictable. No man dared tread on him. I was the grass. Pleasant, complaisant, sweet-smelling, swaying with every breeze. Who fears to walk upon the grass? But it is the grass that hides the viper from his enemies and shelters him until he strikes."

Is that 1000 times better than the similar passage from last night, or just 100?  Why would you not use great writing like that?
:yes:

I was thinking the same thing last night. It was all such a waste of what Martin had actually written for that storyline and also a waste of a pretty good actor who could have done a great job pulling that story line off. The same thing has happened in multiple other areas too since they've outpaced the books.

 
They spent the season setting up the sandsnakes.
And doing a laughably bad job of it. Remember the spear to the buried head speech?

It may have been a while since last season aired, but it wasn't that long ago when the Sand Snakes got their butts whipped and Ellaria was on her knees begging for mercy in front of Oberyn. Now in the span of 30 seconds of the first episode, he's a feeble, ineffectual ruler that the people turn on and who's personal guard gets taken down like he's a waste of space.

In the context of the show, the plotline does make some sense for the Sand Snakes to seize power (no matter how poorly done), in the context of the source material, it was a giant waste. Wouldn't mind seeing Jaime take up the army commander role and lay waste to Dorne now. Maybe that's where we are headed, would show that none of lands of Westeros are immune from the ravages of war. If the iron borne come back in this season, you could do the same with the attacks on the Reach.

 
And doing a laughably bad job of it. Remember the spear to the buried head speech?

It may have been a while since last season aired, but it wasn't that long ago when the Sand Snakes got their butts whipped and Ellaria was on her knees begging for mercy in front of Oberyn. Now in the span of 30 seconds of the first episode, he's a feeble, ineffectual ruler that the people turn on and who's personal guard gets taken down like he's a waste of space.

In the context of the show, the plotline does make some sense for the Sand Snakes to seize power (no matter how poorly done), in the context of the source material, it was a giant waste. Wouldn't mind seeing Jaime take up the army commander role and lay waste to Dorne now. Maybe that's where we are headed, would show that none of lands of Westeros are immune from the ravages of war. If the iron borne come back in this season, you could do the same with the attacks on the Reach.
Everything is the devil to you! Well, I like Dorne, and I like the Sand Snakes! And I'm gonna keep watchin' them both because they make me feel good!
And by the way. "Alligators" are ornery 'cause of their "Medula Oblongata"!
And I like Tyene, and she like me back! And she showed me her boobies and I like them too!

 
Everything is the devil to you! Well, I like Dorne, and I like the Sand Snakes! And I'm gonna keep watchin' them both because they make me feel good!
And by the way. "Alligators" are ornery 'cause of their "Medula Oblongata"!
And I like Tyene, and she like me back! And she showed me her boobies and I like them too!
:lol:  I wouldn't mind a little more of the bad ##### sand snake :thumbup:

 
Areo Hotah went down a bit easier than I'd like. Who rules in Dorne now?  Has Quentyn been in the show at all?
The sand snakes have shown themselves to use poison on EVERYTHING. It would have made sense to show somehow the dagger was poisoned, but it was an easy assumption to make for me, and not a real problem in the end.

I was VERY surprised they killed Martell like that though. Didn't see that coming at all

 
I guess we don't know what the show has in store for Dorne, but I hate the whole thing. But for the two guys they just killed, the acting down there has been terrible. 

I like the Dorne angle in the book. They are going to end up playing a major role imo when Dany and Aegon join their forces. 

 

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