HBO - Song of Ice&Fire Series -Varsity Thread - no TV only whiners (3 Viewers)

[Abrantes]

Do we know that there are for sure only two more books? I mean, does Martin actually have an end game for everything?

Supposedly. And at the rate he kills people off, storylines could get streamlined real quick.

Spoiler

His reputation as a merciless butcher hasn't held up over the past couple of books. Who was the last major character who died and actually stayed dead? You could argue for Quentyn, but he wasn't exactly major, even if his death leads to bigger things. I see Jon Snow as a stone cold lock to come back. so that's not much.I'll be extremely surprised if Martin manages to bring the story to a satisfactory conclusion in two books without turning them into 1,500-page monoliths.

 

[Maelstrom]

-The Sword of Truth series starts out so well, but goes really downhill after book 6. 2, 4 & 6 in that series are great, some of my favorites. After that, it's more a labor of love to finish the series as he gets way too political/philosphical and the books get tedious.

That was one of the things I actually liked about the Sword of Truth series, what got to me was that it was basically the same story over and over, and then the same story but lasts for a few books towards the end. Still, one of my fav. series.

 

[mad sweeney]

Do we know that there are for sure only two more books? I mean, does Martin actually have an end game for everything?

Supposedly. And at the rate he kills people off, storylines could get streamlined real quick.

Spoiler

His reputation as a merciless butcher hasn't held up over the past couple of books. Who was the last major character who died and actually stayed dead? You could argue for Quentyn, but he wasn't exactly major, even if his death leads to bigger things. I see Jon Snow as a stone cold lock to come back. so that's not much.I'll be extremely surprised if Martin manages to bring the story to a satisfactory conclusion in two books without turning them into 1,500-page monoliths.

I agree about your lock and don't mind if the books are massive.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

Game of Thrones Mafia/Werewolf

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Swords is a great book. I'm upset with myself for having to put it down for a bit as now I am a little confused with what happened at the beginning of Swords vs the last quarter of Kings, but I will be reading these again I am sure, especially with the TV series.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

Swords is a great book. I'm upset with myself for having to put it down for a bit as now I am a little confused with what happened at the beginning of Swords vs the last quarter of Kings, but I will be reading these again I am sure, especially with the TV series.

ditto

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

This is only a minor spoiler, but I think I want to know (along the lines of what Leeroy might be questioning):

Spoiler

I am only about 300 pages into Crows, but: What happened to Theon? Was he really killed? Other folks appear to think so, but his chapters simply end/disappear. Am I forgetting something?

 

[Gr00vus]

This is only a minor spoiler, but I think I want to know (along the lines of what Leeroy might be questioning):

Spoiler

I am only about 300 pages into Crows, but: What happened to Theon? Was he really killed? Other folks appear to think so, but his chapters simply end/disappear. Am I forgetting something?

Just keep reading. Trust me.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

This is only a minor spoiler, but I think I want to know (along the lines of what Leeroy might be questioning):

Spoiler

I am only about 300 pages into Crows, but: What happened to Theon? Was he really killed? Other folks appear to think so, but his chapters simply end/disappear. Am I forgetting something?

Just keep reading. Trust me.Fair enough. Figured maybe the whole Ironborn storyline would bring that loose end full circle. Thanks.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Can somebody explain the difference, if any, between the white-walkers/others and a wight?

 

[parrot]

Can somebody explain the difference, if any, between the white-walkers/others and a wight?

The White Walkers are another race. The wights are people they killed and somehow reanimate.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Can somebody explain the difference, if any, between the white-walkers/others and a wight?

The White Walkers are another race. The wights are people they killed and somehow reanimate.

But the White Walkers are "un-dead" as well, right?

 

[The Gator]

This is only a minor spoiler, but I think I want to know (along the lines of what Leeroy might be questioning):

Spoiler

I am only about 300 pages into Crows, but: What happened to Theon? Was he really killed? Other folks appear to think so, but his chapters simply end/disappear. Am I forgetting something?

Spoiler

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Can we maybe put a little something before each spoiler tag, like what book you're referring to or something so people do not accidentally get information they were not looking for? Sometimes you ask a question in here and the spoiler thread expands and you stumble upon something you didn't quite want to know just yet.

 

[parrot]

Can somebody explain the difference, if any, between the white-walkers/others and a wight?

The White Walkers are another race. The wights are people they killed and somehow reanimate.

But the White Walkers are "un-dead" as well, right?

General info about White Walkers;

Spoiler

There's not a lot revealed about the WW even through ADwD, but no, I don't think they are "un-dead". Most of Westeros thought they were a myth, or extinct, as they haven't been seen for thousands of years, but they seem to be a living race and they can be killed with the right weapon.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

Can we maybe put a little something before each spoiler tag, like what book you're referring to or something so people do not accidentally get information they were not looking for? Sometimes you ask a question in here and the spoiler thread expands and you stumble upon something you didn't quite want to know just yet.

you talking about mine? I thought all that info was in Book 3. Bc, it isn't in Book 4. That was my point.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

Can somebody explain the difference, if any, between the white-walkers/others and a wight?

The White Walkers are another race. The wights are people they killed and somehow reanimate.

But the White Walkers are "un-dead" as well, right?

General info about White Walkers;

Spoiler

There's not a lot revealed about the WW even through ADwD, but no, I don't think they are "un-dead". Most of Westeros thought they were a myth, or extinct, as they haven't been seen for thousands of years, but they seem to be a living race and they can be killed with the right weapon.

re white walkers and Children of the Forest (not really a spoiler):

Spoiler

are they separate from "Children of the Forest"? Just read something recently from Book 1 where ned says something like "the Others AND the children of the forest have been gone for eight thousand years".

 

[Hodor]

Can somebody explain the difference, if any, between the white-walkers/others and a wight?

The White Walkers are another race. The wights are people they killed and somehow reanimate.

But the White Walkers are "un-dead" as well, right?

General info about White Walkers;

Spoiler

There's not a lot revealed about the WW even through ADwD, but no, I don't think they are "un-dead". Most of Westeros thought they were a myth, or extinct, as they haven't been seen for thousands of years, but they seem to be a living race and they can be killed with the right weapon.

re white walkers and Children of the Forest (not really a spoiler):

Spoiler

are they separate from "Children of the Forest"? Just read something recently from Book 1 where ned says something like "the Others AND the children of the forest have been gone for eight thousand years".

Yes, definitely. This info is from the first book and just general info, so not putting it in spoilersThe children were small, dark and beautiful. They wore clothes of leaves and bark and wielded weirwood bows and swords and arrow-heads made of dragonglass. Their wise men were called greenseers, and they carved faces into the weirwoods to keep watch over the forest. Their gods were the nameless gods of nature that are now called the Old Gods. They are the oldest known inhabitants of Westeros. When the First Men came over the Arm of Dorne and began to settle the land, they chopped down the weirwoods, which led to open war. The children used magic to shatter the Arm, but they could not prevail against the invaders. Finally, the two peoples came to a peace agreement in a meeting on the Isle of Faces in which the children retained the forests and the First Men agreed to halt the cutting down of weirwoods. This peace lasted for four thousand years until the Andals came and began chopping down the trees again. Under persecution, the children retreated to the Far North, where some claim they still live today.the White Walkers (Others) are said to hate iron, fire, and sunlight and seek to kill all creatures that have warm blood in their veins. They ride dead horses into battle leading legions of the undead and also use pale white ice spiders the size of hounds as trackers. Thousands of years ago they nearly overwhelmed Westeros in an invasion before being defeated in an unknown manner.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Can we maybe put a little something before each spoiler tag, like what book you're referring to or something so people do not accidentally get information they were not looking for? Sometimes you ask a question in here and the spoiler thread expands and you stumble upon something you didn't quite want to know just yet.

you talking about mine? I thought all that info was in Book 3. Bc, it isn't in Book 4. That was my point.

Oh no, not at all. I wasn't being specific to anybody. Was just thinking how we have a lot of people in here at different stages, all with questions. Sometimes it gets tough to see which spoiler tag is about what when you have 5 nested quotes of just the spoiler button is all.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Can somebody explain the difference, if any, between the white-walkers/others and a wight?

The White Walkers are another race. The wights are people they killed and somehow reanimate.

But the White Walkers are "un-dead" as well, right?

General info about White Walkers;

Spoiler

There's not a lot revealed about the WW even through ADwD, but no, I don't think they are "un-dead". Most of Westeros thought they were a myth, or extinct, as they haven't been seen for thousands of years, but they seem to be a living race and they can be killed with the right weapon.

Spoiler

re white walkers and Children of the Forest (not really a spoiler):are they separate from "Children of the Forest"? Just read something recently from Book 1 where ned says something like "the Others AND the children of the forest have been gone for eight thousand years".

Yes, definitely. This info is from the first book and just general info, so not putting it in spoilersThe children were small, dark and beautiful. They wore clothes of leaves and bark and wielded weirwood bows and swords and arrow-heads made of dragonglass. Their wise men were called greenseers, and they carved faces into the weirwoods to keep watch over the forest. Their gods were the nameless gods of nature that are now called the Old Gods. They are the oldest known inhabitants of Westeros. When the First Men came over the Arm of Dorne and began to settle the land, they chopped down the weirwoods, which led to open war. The children used magic to shatter the Arm, but they could not prevail against the invaders. Finally, the two peoples came to a peace agreement in a meeting on the Isle of Faces in which the children retained the forests and the First Men agreed to halt the cutting down of weirwoods. This peace lasted for four thousand years until the Andals came and began chopping down the trees again. Under persecution, the children retreated to the Far North, where some claim they still live today.the White Walkers (Others) are said to hate iron, fire, and sunlight and seek to kill all creatures that have warm blood in their veins. They ride dead horses into battle leading legions of the undead and also use pale white ice spiders the size of hounds as trackers. Thousands of years ago they nearly overwhelmed Westeros in an invasion before being defeated in an unknown manner.Thanks for this. I recall reading that description. Things make more sense now than they did when you first read them. I've never read a book or series more than once. This is certainly be my first.

 

[beaux]

'Game of Thrones' scoop: DVD release date, details, photos -- EXCLUSIVE

http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/11/30/game-of-thrones-dvd/

Here’s everything you need to know about the home video release of HBO’s Game of Thrones: The Complete First Season. EW.com exclusively has the release date, the list of extensive bonus features, a ton of screen shots, and first-look video clip from one of the documentaries.

The fantasy drama is arguably the most anticipated DVD release for a TV series that’s aired this year. And with the show’s expected home video revenue factored as a major player in the show’s finances, it’s no surprise HBO has pulled out all the stops. Based on the two disks I previewed, Thrones was given a lavish presentation. The sophisticated menu navigation and behind-the-scenes extras that are on par with DVD sets from hit movies rather than what fans typically receive for TV shows.

Game of Thrones arrives in stores on March 6, 2012. The cost: $79.98 for BD and $59.99 for standard-def DVD. Here’s a list of all the extras followed by 11 exclusive pics and then a video clip from one the of the documentaries.

Both the DVD and Blu-ray versions include the first season’s 10 episodes, plus (descriptions are the official text):

Complete Guide to Westeros

“An interactive compendium of the noble houses and lands featured in season one.”

Making Game of Thrones

“An exclusive 30-minute feature including never-before-seen footage from the set and interviews from the cast and crew.”

Character Profiles

“Profiles of 15 major characters as described by the actors portraying them.”

Creating the Show Open

“An inside look at the creation of the Emmy-winning opening title sequence for Game of Thrones.”

From the Book to the Screen

“Executive producers David Benioff & D.B. Weiss, and author George R.R. Martin talk about the challenges of bringing Martin’s epic fantasy novel to life on HBO.”

The Night’s Watch

“An in-depth look at the unique order of men who patrol and protect the Wall, a 700 foot ice structure that separates the Seven Kingdoms from the darkness beyond.”

Creating the Dothraki Language

“An insightful glance into the comprehensive language created for the Dothraki people in Game of Thrones.”

Audio Commentaries

“Seven audio commentaries with Cast and Crew including David Benioff, D.B. Weiss, George R.R. Martin, Emilia Clarke, Peter Dinklage, Kit Harington, and more.”

BLU-RAY ONLY: ALL THE FEATURES ABOVE PLUS:

Blu-ray Complete Guide to Westeros

“An interactive compendium of the noble houses and lands featured in season one, PLUS 24 exclusive histories of the Seven Kingdoms as told by the characters themselves.”

In-Episode Guide

“In-feature resource that provides background information about on-screen characters, locations, and relevant histories while each episode plays.”

Anatomy of an Episode

“An in-episode experience that explores the creative minds and colossal efforts behind episode six, ‘A Golden Crown.’”

Hidden Dragon Eggs

“Find the hidden dragon eggs to uncover even more never-before-scene content.”

There’s no deleted scenes from the series itself — the producers used almost everything they shot. I’d love to tell you about the Dragon Eggs, but I’m sworn to silence on that one. The making-of extras should please longtime Ice & Fire fans looking for more detail, while the character profiles and major houses compendium are useful to newcomers who could use some background to help follow the complex show.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

'Game of Thrones' scoop: DVD release date, details, photos -- EXCLUSIVE

http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/11/30/game-of-thrones-dvd/

Here’s everything you need to know about the home video release of HBO’s Game of Thrones: The Complete First Season. EW.com exclusively has the release date, the list of extensive bonus features, a ton of screen shots, and first-look video clip from one of the documentaries.

The fantasy drama is arguably the most anticipated DVD release for a TV series that’s aired this year. And with the show’s expected home video revenue factored as a major player in the show’s finances, it’s no surprise HBO has pulled out all the stops. Based on the two disks I previewed, Thrones was given a lavish presentation. The sophisticated menu navigation and behind-the-scenes extras that are on par with DVD sets from hit movies rather than what fans typically receive for TV shows.

Game of Thrones arrives in stores on March 6, 2012. The cost: $79.98 for BD and $59.99 for standard-def DVD. Here’s a list of all the extras followed by 11 exclusive pics and then a video clip from one the of the documentaries.

Both the DVD and Blu-ray versions include the first season’s 10 episodes, plus (descriptions are the official text):

Complete Guide to Westeros

“An interactive compendium of the noble houses and lands featured in season one.”

Making Game of Thrones

“An exclusive 30-minute feature including never-before-seen footage from the set and interviews from the cast and crew.”

Character Profiles

“Profiles of 15 major characters as described by the actors portraying them.”

Creating the Show Open

“An inside look at the creation of the Emmy-winning opening title sequence for Game of Thrones.”

From the Book to the Screen

“Executive producers David Benioff & D.B. Weiss, and author George R.R. Martin talk about the challenges of bringing Martin’s epic fantasy novel to life on HBO.”

The Night’s Watch

“An in-depth look at the unique order of men who patrol and protect the Wall, a 700 foot ice structure that separates the Seven Kingdoms from the darkness beyond.”

Creating the Dothraki Language

“An insightful glance into the comprehensive language created for the Dothraki people in Game of Thrones.”

Audio Commentaries

“Seven audio commentaries with Cast and Crew including David Benioff, D.B. Weiss, George R.R. Martin, Emilia Clarke, Peter Dinklage, Kit Harington, and more.”

BLU-RAY ONLY: ALL THE FEATURES ABOVE PLUS:

Blu-ray Complete Guide to Westeros

“An interactive compendium of the noble houses and lands featured in season one, PLUS 24 exclusive histories of the Seven Kingdoms as told by the characters themselves.”

In-Episode Guide

“In-feature resource that provides background information about on-screen characters, locations, and relevant histories while each episode plays.”

Anatomy of an Episode

“An in-episode experience that explores the creative minds and colossal efforts behind episode six, ‘A Golden Crown.’”

Hidden Dragon Eggs

“Find the hidden dragon eggs to uncover even more never-before-scene content.”

There’s no deleted scenes from the series itself — the producers used almost everything they shot. I’d love to tell you about the Dragon Eggs, but I’m sworn to silence on that one. The making-of extras should please longtime Ice & Fire fans looking for more detail, while the character profiles and major houses compendium are useful to newcomers who could use some background to help follow the complex show.

iTunes?

 

[beaux]

Rumor: HBO to order two more seasons, film them back-to-back

http://winter-is-coming.net/2011/11/rumor-hbo-to-order-two-more-seasons-film-them-back-to-back/

We reported on this in another post, but the rumors continue to swirl and so we thought it deserved its own post. We are now hearing from multiple sources that HBO plans to order both seasons three and four and film them back-to-back (à la Lord of the Rings). It has already been confirmed that A Storm of Swords would be covered in more than one season. From what we have heard, much of the film crew in Northern Ireland has been told of this plan and has been advised to expect nine months of filming next year.

Winter Is Coming: I have no doubt that this is an option that HBO is exploring, perhaps even leaning towards, but I don’t think it is a done deal just yet. HBO likely won’t announce anything official until season two begins, so they could change their minds before then.

It does make sense though, to do it this way, as they’ve already said they will be splitting book three into multiple seasons. This way they get the whole of the book filmed in one go, saving on production costs and keeping the kids from aging in between seasons.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

Rumor: HBO to order two more seasons, film them back-to-back

http://winter-is-coming.net/2011/11/rumor-hbo-to-order-two-more-seasons-film-them-back-to-back/

We reported on this in another post, but the rumors continue to swirl and so we thought it deserved its own post. We are now hearing from multiple sources that HBO plans to order both seasons three and four and film them back-to-back (à la Lord of the Rings). It has already been confirmed that A Storm of Swords would be covered in more than one season. From what we have heard, much of the film crew in Northern Ireland has been told of this plan and has been advised to expect nine months of filming next year.

Winter Is Coming: I have no doubt that this is an option that HBO is exploring, perhaps even leaning towards, but I don’t think it is a done deal just yet. HBO likely won’t announce anything official until season two begins, so they could change their minds before then.

It does make sense though, to do it this way, as they’ve already said they will be splitting book three into multiple seasons. This way they get the whole of the book filmed in one go, saving on production costs and keeping the kids from aging in between seasons.

This is a biggie with Bran, Arya and Joff (I think they can still sell Sansa as younger). If the character who plays Joffrey grows a foot and puts on 50lbs, it would be the end of that actor. And switching out Joffrey after Season 2 would be a disaster.

 

[babydemon90]

is there a S2 premiere date yet?

 

[beaux]

is there a S2 premiere date yet?

April 2012

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

So I finally finished Swords last night. This was a great book. I'd say I rank them Swords, Thrones, Kings so far, but I also really enjoyed Kings as well. I can see why people would have been really upset with Crows with all the cliffhanger type stuff in Swords only to wait 5 years for a novel that apparently doesn't contain chapters from a bunch of our favorite characters while introducing new people and angles. Hopefully, I will be able to enjoy it being that I can go directly into Crows and then Dragons just in time for season 2 on HBO.

A lot happened in Swords . . . I kind of want to go through some of the reveals and happenings to make sure I got/understand what I am supposed to so far. This might not be in any real order and is full of questions, observations, and rambling -- please comment freely but don't give away major Crows/Dragons spoliers:

Spoiler

1. Littlefinger had Jon Aryyn killed by Lysa. It was not Cersei or a plot by the Lannisters to take the Iron Throne. They seemingly were unaware. Did Littlefinger foresee what would happen? That Robert would replace Jon with Stark so that he could either get Cat close to him and/or Ned so that he could kill Ned/take Cat for himself? What was his motivation?

2. Joffrey is who ordered the attempt on Bran by the dagger wielding assassin. He just was a certified ####### who was trying to please is father in some twisted way perhaps, and then when he failed he kept it to himself. There was no plot to cover-up what Jaime had done. Again, the Lannisters had no scheme to take down the Starks, start a war, or seize the Iron Throne.So the whole War of the 5 Kings and downfall of the Starks is 1 of 2 things or a combination of Littlefinger's obsession with Cat (and plot for power?) and randomness. I guess Littlefinger, Cersei, Tywin etc. all took advantage of what transpired, but only Littlefinger seemed to know from the start and he knocked the first domino -- whether he got what he wanted or not, I don't know.

3. Robb Stark got whacked at the Red Wedding because he offended Walder Frey. Frey approached Tywin Lannister? How did Roose Bolton get involved? As the new Warden of the North, does he now get Winterfell? I am confused here because while Tywin is who promised Roose the Warden of the North title, he also married Tyrion to Sansa so that his heir would hold Winterfell and the North. Were the Westerlings (Robb's wife and family) involved in the betrayal? Tommen pardons them.

4. Catlyn was supposed to be held hostage but got killed because she lost her mind and cut the throat of one of Frey's dimwitted grandchildren. Ummmmmmmmmm, but she isn't dead!?! But doesn't appear to the a wight like the white walkers create. Did Arya/Nymeria fetching her body from the water have something to do with this? I assume this is stuff further delved into in Crows/Dragons or later still.

5. The Jaime chapters, especially the second half of the book, became some of my favorites as well. Given what we know of his motivations (or lack) now, his character outlook is very much changed from Thrones. I look forward to his writing of his own future.

6. Littlefinger ordered the hit on Joffrey as well?? The Queen of Thorns was the assassin? But why for both? And how does an amethyst poison?

7. Tyrion is still my favorite. Sucks that I have to push through at least another 1000 pages before I hear from him again. Good for him though killing Tywin and Shae. The new Hand pick will be interesting. Speaking of Tywin and a new hand . . . did I miss what Tywin sent Jaime after their falling out that was so offensive to Jaime?? Was it the sword that he gave Brienne? I forget what happened to the dagger that was also apparently forged from Ice. And what the hell is Brienne supposed to be doing now? Finding Sansa and bring her back to Jaime? Or to Winterfell? Or across the sea to Tyrion?

8. What's the point of Rickon even being written? Maybe he is some savage rebel kinslayer in the future that we were meant to forget about being out there?

9. I hope Arya and Nymeria are reunited physically --I've assumed for a while that Nymeria was the big wolf pack leader people kept talking of ravaging the countryside.

10. Snow is now the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. Good for him and Sam politicing! If Robb named Jon Snow heir to Winterfell already, why wasn't a Raven sent to the wall before Stannis got there already? Is Winterfell vacant right now completely?

11. Dany -- I was starting to like her chapters more and more, but I won't miss her too much in Crows.

12. I can see now why people were standing up for Sansa in here. I feel bad for her now as well. And she is now stuck with a freaky pedo who sees his old obsession in her and wants more and more power apparently.

Sorry for rambling, I'm sure I forgot some things I had intended on asking too. I'm a little obsessed right now.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

So I finally finished Swords last night. This was a great book. I'd say I rank them Swords, Thrones, Kings so far, but I also really enjoyed Kings as well. I can see why people would have been really upset with Crows with all the cliffhanger type stuff in Swords only to wait 5 years for a novel that apparently doesn't contain chapters from a bunch of our favorite characters while introducing new people and angles. Hopefully, I will be able to enjoy it being that I can go directly into Crows and then Dragons just in time for season 2 on HBO.A lot happened in Swords . . . I kind of want to go through some of the reveals and happenings to make sure I got/understand what I am supposed to so far. This might not be in any real order and is full of questions, observations, and rambling -- please comment freely but don't give away major Crows/Dragons spoliers:

Spoiler

1. Littlefinger had Jon Aryyn killed by Lysa. It was not Cersei or a plot by the Lannisters to take the Iron Throne. They seemingly were unaware. Did Littlefinger foresee what would happen? That Robert would replace Jon with Stark so that he could either get Cat close to him and/or Ned so that he could kill Ned/take Cat for himself? What was his motivation?2. Joffrey is who ordered the attempt on Bran by the dagger wielding assassin. He just was a certified ####### who was trying to please is father in some twisted way perhaps, and then when he failed he kept it to himself. There was no plot to cover-up what Jaime had done. Again, the Lannisters had no scheme to take down the Starks, start a war, or seize the Iron Throne.So the whole War of the 5 Kings and downfall of the Starks is 1 of 2 things or a combination of Littlefinger's obsession with Cat (and plot for power?) and randomness. I guess Littlefinger, Cersei, Tywin etc. all took advantage of what transpired, but only Littlefinger seemed to know from the start and he knocked the first domino -- whether he got what he wanted or not, I don't know.3. Robb Stark got whacked at the Red Wedding because he offended Walder Frey. Frey approached Tywin Lannister? How did Roose Bolton get involved? As the new Warden of the North, does he now get Winterfell? I am confused here because while Tywin is who promised Roose the Warden of the North title, he also married Tyrion to Sansa so that his heir would hold Winterfell and the North. Were the Westerlings (Robb's wife and family) involved in the betrayal? Tommen pardons them.4. Catlyn was supposed to be held hostage but got killed because she lost her mind and cut the throat of one of Frey's dimwitted grandchildren. Ummmmmmmmmm, but she isn't dead!?! But doesn't appear to the a wight like the white walkers create. Did Arya/Nymeria fetching her body from the water have something to do with this? I assume this is stuff further delved into in Crows/Dragons or later still.5. The Jaime chapters, especially the second half of the book, became some of my favorites as well. Given what we know of his motivations (or lack) now, his character outlook is very much changed from Thrones. I look forward to his writing of his own future.6. Littlefinger ordered the hit on Joffrey as well?? The Queen of Thorns was the assassin? But why for both? And how does an amethyst poison?7. Tyrion is still my favorite. Sucks that I have to push through at least another 1000 pages before I hear from him again. Good for him though killing Tywin and Shae. The new Hand pick will be interesting. Speaking of Tywin and a new hand . . . did I miss what Tywin sent Jaime after their falling out that was so offensive to Jaime?? Was it the sword that he gave Brienne? I forget what happened to the dagger that was also apparently forged from Ice. And what the hell is Brienne supposed to be doing now? Finding Sansa and bring her back to Jaime? Or to Winterfell? Or across the sea to Tyrion?8. What's the point of Rickon even being written? Maybe he is some savage rebel kinslayer in the future that we were meant to forget about being out there?9. I hope Arya and Nymeria are reunited physically --I've assumed for a while that Nymeria was the big wolf pack leader people kept talking of ravaging the countryside.10. Snow is now the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. Good for him and Sam politicing! If Robb named Jon Snow heir to Winterfell already, why wasn't a Raven sent to the wall before Stannis got there already? Is Winterfell vacant right now completely? 11. Dany -- I was starting to like her chapters more and more, but I won't miss her too much in Crows.12. I can see now why people were standing up for Sansa in here. I feel bad for her now as well. And she is now stuck with a freaky pedo who sees his old obsession in her and wants more and more power apparently.Sorry for rambling, I'm sure I forgot some things I had intended on asking too. I'm a little obsessed right now.

http://towerofthehand.com/books/101/awesome chapter summaries. I have/had some of the same questions. Planning on reading all of the summaries to refresh my memory and clarify things.

 

[Gr00vus]

So I finally finished Swords last night. This was a great book. I'd say I rank them Swords, Thrones, Kings so far, but I also really enjoyed Kings as well. I can see why people would have been really upset with Crows with all the cliffhanger type stuff in Swords only to wait 5 years for a novel that apparently doesn't contain chapters from a bunch of our favorite characters while introducing new people and angles. Hopefully, I will be able to enjoy it being that I can go directly into Crows and then Dragons just in time for season 2 on HBO.A lot happened in Swords . . . I kind of want to go through some of the reveals and happenings to make sure I got/understand what I am supposed to so far. This might not be in any real order and is full of questions, observations, and rambling -- please comment freely but don't give away major Crows/Dragons spoliers:

Spoiler

1. Littlefinger had Jon Aryyn killed by Lysa. It was not Cersei or a plot by the Lannisters to take the Iron Throne. They seemingly were unaware. Did Littlefinger foresee what would happen? That Robert would replace Jon with Stark so that he could either get Cat close to him and/or Ned so that he could kill Ned/take Cat for himself? What was his motivation?2. Joffrey is who ordered the attempt on Bran by the dagger wielding assassin. He just was a certified ####### who was trying to please is father in some twisted way perhaps, and then when he failed he kept it to himself. There was no plot to cover-up what Jaime had done. Again, the Lannisters had no scheme to take down the Starks, start a war, or seize the Iron Throne.So the whole War of the 5 Kings and downfall of the Starks is 1 of 2 things or a combination of Littlefinger's obsession with Cat (and plot for power?) and randomness. I guess Littlefinger, Cersei, Tywin etc. all took advantage of what transpired, but only Littlefinger seemed to know from the start and he knocked the first domino -- whether he got what he wanted or not, I don't know.3. Robb Stark got whacked at the Red Wedding because he offended Walder Frey. Frey approached Tywin Lannister? How did Roose Bolton get involved? As the new Warden of the North, does he now get Winterfell? I am confused here because while Tywin is who promised Roose the Warden of the North title, he also married Tyrion to Sansa so that his heir would hold Winterfell and the North. Were the Westerlings (Robb's wife and family) involved in the betrayal? Tommen pardons them.4. Catlyn was supposed to be held hostage but got killed because she lost her mind and cut the throat of one of Frey's dimwitted grandchildren. Ummmmmmmmmm, but she isn't dead!?! But doesn't appear to the a wight like the white walkers create. Did Arya/Nymeria fetching her body from the water have something to do with this? I assume this is stuff further delved into in Crows/Dragons or later still.5. The Jaime chapters, especially the second half of the book, became some of my favorites as well. Given what we know of his motivations (or lack) now, his character outlook is very much changed from Thrones. I look forward to his writing of his own future.6. Littlefinger ordered the hit on Joffrey as well?? The Queen of Thorns was the assassin? But why for both? And how does an amethyst poison?7. Tyrion is still my favorite. Sucks that I have to push through at least another 1000 pages before I hear from him again. Good for him though killing Tywin and Shae. The new Hand pick will be interesting. Speaking of Tywin and a new hand . . . did I miss what Tywin sent Jaime after their falling out that was so offensive to Jaime?? Was it the sword that he gave Brienne? I forget what happened to the dagger that was also apparently forged from Ice. And what the hell is Brienne supposed to be doing now? Finding Sansa and bring her back to Jaime? Or to Winterfell? Or across the sea to Tyrion?8. What's the point of Rickon even being written? Maybe he is some savage rebel kinslayer in the future that we were meant to forget about being out there?9. I hope Arya and Nymeria are reunited physically --I've assumed for a while that Nymeria was the big wolf pack leader people kept talking of ravaging the countryside.10. Snow is now the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. Good for him and Sam politicing! If Robb named Jon Snow heir to Winterfell already, why wasn't a Raven sent to the wall before Stannis got there already? Is Winterfell vacant right now completely? 11. Dany -- I was starting to like her chapters more and more, but I won't miss her too much in Crows.12. I can see now why people were standing up for Sansa in here. I feel bad for her now as well. And she is now stuck with a freaky pedo who sees his old obsession in her and wants more and more power apparently.Sorry for rambling, I'm sure I forgot some things I had intended on asking too. I'm a little obsessed right now.

My advice is to keep reading. It'd be tough to address much of what you're asking without blowing what's in the subsequent books. Much of what you're wondering about gets answered in the next books.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

I don't think you missed much, if anything, Leeroy. Your answers are coming (most).

One thing that dawned on me:

Spoiler

Jamie makes a flippant remark to Bolton "send robb stark my regards".

Bolton says "Jamie Lannister sends his regards" as he beheads Robb.

I assume Catelyn overheard this.

So, it will be easy for Catelyn to blame Jamie and seek her vengeance, when the real culprit was Tywin. Jamie was completely unawares.

Maybe that's reading too much into it, but I thought it was interesting.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Can somebody explain the difference, if any, between the white-walkers/others and a wight?

The White Walkers are another race. The wights are people they killed and somehow reanimate.

But the White Walkers are "un-dead" as well, right?

General info about White Walkers;

Spoiler

There's not a lot revealed about the WW even through ADwD, but no, I don't think they are "un-dead". Most of Westeros thought they were a myth, or extinct, as they haven't been seen for thousands of years, but they seem to be a living race and they can be killed with the right weapon.

Spoiler

re white walkers and Children of the Forest (not really a spoiler):are they separate from "Children of the Forest"? Just read something recently from Book 1 where ned says something like "the Others AND the children of the forest have been gone for eight thousand years".

Yes, definitely. This info is from the first book and just general info, so not putting it in spoilersThe children were small, dark and beautiful. They wore clothes of leaves and bark and wielded weirwood bows and swords and arrow-heads made of dragonglass. Their wise men were called greenseers, and they carved faces into the weirwoods to keep watch over the forest. Their gods were the nameless gods of nature that are now called the Old Gods. They are the oldest known inhabitants of Westeros. When the First Men came over the Arm of Dorne and began to settle the land, they chopped down the weirwoods, which led to open war. The children used magic to shatter the Arm, but they could not prevail against the invaders. Finally, the two peoples came to a peace agreement in a meeting on the Isle of Faces in which the children retained the forests and the First Men agreed to halt the cutting down of weirwoods. This peace lasted for four thousand years until the Andals came and began chopping down the trees again. Under persecution, the children retreated to the Far North, where some claim they still live today.

the White Walkers (Others) are said to hate iron, fire, and sunlight and seek to kill all creatures that have warm blood in their veins. They ride dead horses into battle leading legions of the undead and also use pale white ice spiders the size of hounds as trackers. Thousands of years ago they nearly overwhelmed Westeros in an invasion before being defeated in an unknown manner.

That's the kind of thing you'd think you might want to document. I'd carve it 8 feet thick into the side of the ####ing Wall. "Um, hey, future us. If you throw a little olive oil on the tip of your swords - just a drop - a touch of your sword to their skin will cause these guys to go Greek and they'll ### #### each other to death."

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

Can somebody explain the difference, if any, between the white-walkers/others and a wight?

The White Walkers are another race. The wights are people they killed and somehow reanimate.

But the White Walkers are "un-dead" as well, right?

General info about White Walkers;

Spoiler

There's not a lot revealed about the WW even through ADwD, but no, I don't think they are "un-dead". Most of Westeros thought they were a myth, or extinct, as they haven't been seen for thousands of years, but they seem to be a living race and they can be killed with the right weapon.

Spoiler

re white walkers and Children of the Forest (not really a spoiler):are they separate from "Children of the Forest"? Just read something recently from Book 1 where ned says something like "the Others AND the children of the forest have been gone for eight thousand years".

Yes, definitely. This info is from the first book and just general info, so not putting it in spoilersThe children were small, dark and beautiful. They wore clothes of leaves and bark and wielded weirwood bows and swords and arrow-heads made of dragonglass. Their wise men were called greenseers, and they carved faces into the weirwoods to keep watch over the forest. Their gods were the nameless gods of nature that are now called the Old Gods. They are the oldest known inhabitants of Westeros. When the First Men came over the Arm of Dorne and began to settle the land, they chopped down the weirwoods, which led to open war. The children used magic to shatter the Arm, but they could not prevail against the invaders. Finally, the two peoples came to a peace agreement in a meeting on the Isle of Faces in which the children retained the forests and the First Men agreed to halt the cutting down of weirwoods. This peace lasted for four thousand years until the Andals came and began chopping down the trees again. Under persecution, the children retreated to the Far North, where some claim they still live today.

the White Walkers (Others) are said to hate iron, fire, and sunlight and seek to kill all creatures that have warm blood in their veins. They ride dead horses into battle leading legions of the undead and also use pale white ice spiders the size of hounds as trackers. Thousands of years ago they nearly overwhelmed Westeros in an invasion before being defeated in an unknown manner.

That's the kind of thing you'd think you might want to document. I'd carve it 8 feet thick into the side of the ####ing Wall. "Um, hey, future us. If you throw a little olive oil on the tip of your swords - just a drop - a touch of your sword to their skin will cause these guys to go Greek and they'll ### #### each other to death."

lol

 

[pantherclub]

without reading this whole thread, has martin said how many more books he is writing?

 

[Sabertooth]

Kingslayer

Spoiler

How do people feel about Jaime Lannister. I tend to think he's done a total 180 and will be a tragic hero moving forward.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

Kingslayer

Spoiler

How do people feel about Jaime Lannister. I tend to think he's done a total 180 and will be a tragic hero moving forward.

how far are you into the story?

 

[Sabertooth]

without reading this whole thread, has martin said how many more books he is writing?

I think it is now at 7 total.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

Game of Thrones Mafia/Werewolf

good post

 

[Sabertooth]

Kingslayer story arc through ADwD

Spoiler

How do people feel about Jaime Lannister. I tend to think he's done a total 180 and will be a tragic hero moving forward.

how far are you into the story?I've read them all at one point or another. Although there are some 5 year gaps in there where I certainly might read something completely differently now.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

Kingslayer story arc through ADwD

Spoiler

How do people feel about Jaime Lannister. I tend to think he's done a total 180 and will be a tragic hero moving forward.

Spoiler

how far are you into the story?

I've read them all at one point or another. Although there are some 5 year gaps in there where I certainly might read something completely differently now.ah, okay. I am only about 400 into Crows

Spoiler

but a recent chapter ended with Jamie going over The White Book with the history of the Kingsguard noting "most are forgotten, with only the heroic and the despicable remembered, as well as some who possessed both qualities like Ser Criston Cole the Kingmaker". I figure Jamie is heading for some level of redemption. Other than being arrogant and a sister ####er, not sure what else he can be blamed for.

 

[parrot]

Kingslayer story arc through ADwD

Spoiler

How do people feel about Jaime Lannister. I tend to think he's done a total 180 and will be a tragic hero moving forward.

Spoiler

how far are you into the story?

Spoiler

I've read them all at one point or another. Although there are some 5 year gaps in there where I certainly might read something completely differently now.

ah, okay. I am only about 400 into Crows

Spoiler

but a recent chapter ended with Jamie going over The White Book with the history of the Kingsguard noting "most are forgotten, with only the heroic and the despicable remembered, as well as some who possessed both qualities like Ser Criston Cole the Kingmaker". I figure Jamie is heading for some level of redemption. Other than being arrogant and a sister ####er, not sure what else he can be blamed for.

Well, other than the whole "throwing the little kid off a tower" thing.

 

[Gr00vus]

Kingslayer story arc through ADwD

Spoiler

How do people feel about Jaime Lannister. I tend to think he's done a total 180 and will be a tragic hero moving forward.

Spoiler

how far are you into the story?

Spoiler

I've read them all at one point or another. Although there are some 5 year gaps in there where I certainly might read something completely differently now.

Spoiler

ah, okay. I am only about 400 into Crows but a recent chapter ended with Jamie going over The White Book with the history of the Kingsguard noting "most are forgotten, with only the heroic and the despicable remembered, as well as some who possessed both qualities like Ser Criston Cole the Kingmaker". I figure Jamie is heading for some level of redemption. Other than being arrogant and a sister ####er, not sure what else he can be blamed for.

Well, other than the whole "throwing the little kid off a tower" thing.

Spoiler

The Lannister boys become more interesting characters as the story goes on. Both are pretty conflicted and have some interesting motivations. Whereas at the outset I thought Jaime was a one dimensional bad guy he's actually becoming one of the more nuanced characters in the story. Both he and Tyrion are not entirely good or entirely bad at this point, it'll be interesting to see if that remains the same throughout or if they bend one way or another, but either way their some of the most realistically rendered people in the books in terms of depth of exposition and complexity of their mental states.

 

[parrot]

Kingslayer story arc through ADwD

Spoiler

How do people feel about Jaime Lannister. I tend to think he's done a total 180 and will be a tragic hero moving forward.

Spoiler

how far are you into the story?

Spoiler

I've read them all at one point or another. Although there are some 5 year gaps in there where I certainly might read something completely differently now.

Spoiler

ah, okay. I am only about 400 into Crows but a recent chapter ended with Jamie going over The White Book with the history of the Kingsguard noting "most are forgotten, with only the heroic and the despicable remembered, as well as some who possessed both qualities like Ser Criston Cole the Kingmaker". I figure Jamie is heading for some level of redemption. Other than being arrogant and a sister ####er, not sure what else he can be blamed for.

Well, other than the whole "throwing the little kid off a tower" thing.

Spoiler

The Lannister boys become more interesting characters as the story goes on. Both are pretty conflicted and have some interesting motivations. Whereas at the outset I thought Jaime was a one dimensional bad guy he's actually becoming one of the more nuanced characters in the story. Both he and Tyrion are not entirely good or entirely bad at this point, it'll be interesting to see if that remains the same throughout or if they bend one way or another, but either way their some of the most realistically rendered people in the books in terms of depth of exposition and complexity of their mental states.

I agree. A lot of that applies to the Hound as well. Tongue in cheek, I was just pointing out that other pretty major bullet point on Jaime's bad-guy resume.

 

[Gr00vus]

Kingslayer story arc through ADwD

Spoiler

How do people feel about Jaime Lannister. I tend to think he's done a total 180 and will be a tragic hero moving forward.

Spoiler

how far are you into the story?

Spoiler

I've read them all at one point or another. Although there are some 5 year gaps in there where I certainly might read something completely differently now.

Spoiler

ah, okay. I am only about 400 into Crows but a recent chapter ended with Jamie going over The White Book with the history of the Kingsguard noting "most are forgotten, with only the heroic and the despicable remembered, as well as some who possessed both qualities like Ser Criston Cole the Kingmaker". I figure Jamie is heading for some level of redemption. Other than being arrogant and a sister ####er, not sure what else he can be blamed for.

Well, other than the whole "throwing the little kid off a tower" thing.

Spoiler

The Lannister boys become more interesting characters as the story goes on. Both are pretty conflicted and have some interesting motivations. Whereas at the outset I thought Jaime was a one dimensional bad guy he's actually becoming one of the more nuanced characters in the story. Both he and Tyrion are not entirely good or entirely bad at this point, it'll be interesting to see if that remains the same throughout or if they bend one way or another, but either way their some of the most realistically rendered people in the books in terms of depth of exposition and complexity of their mental states.

I agree. A lot of that applies to the Hound as well. Tongue in cheek, I was just pointing out that other pretty major bullet point on Jaime's bad-guy resume.That was a good point to bring up, and prompted me to talk about how the guy has issues to deal with. I agree about Sandor too.

 

[bologna]

without reading this whole thread, has martin said how many more books he is writing?

There are supposedly two more books to come: The Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring. Honestly, I can't see how he can possibly wrap this up in just two books. The last two books haven't had much progress towrads resolving the main story lines. My bet is he slips a third book in there somewhere.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

Kingslayer story arc through ADwD

Spoiler

How do people feel about Jaime Lannister. I tend to think he's done a total 180 and will be a tragic hero moving forward.

Spoiler

how far are you into the story?

Spoiler

I've read them all at one point or another. Although there are some 5 year gaps in there where I certainly might read something completely differently now.

Spoiler

ah, okay. I am only about 400 into Crows but a recent chapter ended with Jamie going over The White Book with the history of the Kingsguard noting "most are forgotten, with only the heroic and the despicable remembered, as well as some who possessed both qualities like Ser Criston Cole the Kingmaker". I figure Jamie is heading for some level of redemption. Other than being arrogant and a sister ####er, not sure what else he can be blamed for.

Well, other than the whole "throwing the little kid off a tower" thing.C'mon! He did it for love.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

without reading this whole thread, has martin said how many more books he is writing?

There are supposedly two more books to come: The Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring. Honestly, I can't see how he can possibly wrap this up in just two books. The last two books haven't had much progress towrads resolving the main story lines. My bet is he slips a third book in there somewhere.

Has he always said it was 7 books with these specific titles since Thrones was first published? I assume he has it all outlined . . . . hopefully better than Lost writers' outlines.

 

[John Bender]

without reading this whole thread, has martin said how many more books he is writing?

There are supposedly two more books to come: The Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring. Honestly, I can't see how he can possibly wrap this up in just two books. The last two books haven't had much progress towrads resolving the main story lines. My bet is he slips a third book in there somewhere.

Has he always said it was 7 books with these specific titles since Thrones was first published? I assume he has it all outlined . . . . hopefully better than Lost writers' outlines.

Yeah. Although so did Robert Jordan with his books and it turned into 3 extra books I believe.

With the money he must be making off the HBO show and the amount of shwag I've seen for sale i.e. this, I wonder if he will try to milk it a bit.

If he does, I will be pissed

Spoiler

ITS TIME TO GET DAENY OFF OF THE OTHER ####### CONTINENT

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

without reading this whole thread, has martin said how many more books he is writing?

There are supposedly two more books to come: The Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring. Honestly, I can't see how he can possibly wrap this up in just two books. The last two books haven't had much progress towrads resolving the main story lines. My bet is he slips a third book in there somewhere.

Has he always said it was 7 books with these specific titles since Thrones was first published? I assume he has it all outlined . . . . hopefully better than Lost writers' outlines.

Yeah. Although so did Robert Jordan with his books and it turned into 3 extra books I believe.

With the money he must be making off the HBO show and the amount of shwag I've seen for sale i.e. this, I wonder if he will try to milk it a bit.

If he does, I will be pissed

Spoiler

ITS TIME TO GET DAENY OFF OF THE OTHER ####### CONTINENT

The HBO show is milk itself though. He already made $$ off the first 4 books. Then HBO starts paying him. Then people who never heard of this (like me) go out and buy the first 4 books. Then he comes out with a 5th book. HBO picks up 3 more seasons at least so far. He has 2 more books to write and sell. Which means at least 7 HBO seasons. If anything, HBO should pressure him to finish up. A 7 season run on HBO would be pretty long really. That's plenty for him I would think.

 

[bologna]

without reading this whole thread, has martin said how many more books he is writing?

There are supposedly two more books to come: The Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring. Honestly, I can't see how he can possibly wrap this up in just two books. The last two books haven't had much progress towrads resolving the main story lines. My bet is he slips a third book in there somewhere.

Has he always said it was 7 books with these specific titles since Thrones was first published? I assume he has it all outlined . . . . hopefully better than Lost writers' outlines.

Originally it was supposed to be six books, but then Book 4 became so big he had to split it into two (AFFC/ADWD). My guess is that he has so much story to tell that at least one of those next two books also gets too big and becomes two. He already had to move four chapters from Dance to Winds of Winter.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I think it is funny that the original link in this thread states that the 7 books would be finished for 2011.