HBO - Song of Ice&Fire Series -Varsity Thread - no TV only whiners (4 Viewers)

[JerseyToughGuys]

As impressive as the quote pyramid is becoming, I'll avoid it.

Littlefinger and Varys are the two characters that I see people building up the most due through inference, assumption, reading between the lines, or whatever you want to call it. Bit too for me, but I get why people have fun with it. I don't buy point 6 from the spoiler at all, but hey - people will speculate when it takes 5+ years between books.

In the show, Littlefinger is definitely portrayed differently than what I imagined from the books. More James Bond villain-type deliberations with Varys, perpetual smugness, more flaunting of power. The machinations listed above are all calculated chess moves, but not outwardly bold in the same manner as the veiled threats he threw in Cersei's face in season 2, for instance. In the books, he always seemed low-key. Why would he want to draw attention to himself, even knowing that he could probably outsmart the other guy? I'm fine with the show version, but it's certainly a different approach, in my eyes. That's partly by necessity, as they don't have the screen time to have to show Littlefinger pulling the strings, so they just have him outright saying it.

Spoiler

Why do you that idea? I mean, if someone made the claim after book 1 that Littlefinger was responsible for all the stuff we *know* he is responsible for that person would garner more of a response than what I posted. From the intensity and thoroughness of training that Arya is receiving in the 4th and 5th books does it really seem likely that a full fledged Faceless man would just be hanging out in the dungeon, be allowed to keep his coins, and know who Arya Stark is? How would you explain those three things? Also, from what we know of Littlefinger and his plotting doesn't it seem likely that if he wanted Ned dead that he would have backup plans to do it if the beheading failed?

Spoiler

I could certainly see this with Littlefinger!

question about littlefinger or even varys for that matter. couldnt someone just kill either one without much of an issue? I mean they have no family no real lands (I know peter has harrenhal (thatsa dump, no army there but bolton men now)) no bannermen.

why would someone kill them?

 

[Crazy Canuck]

ya, things are going to be "slow" again this week.

Story lines based on the preview:

Arya + Hound

Sam and Gilly

Dario

Davos

Joff v. Tyrion

oh, the pissing and moaning that will occur!

Spoiler

wonder if Sam the Slayer (and maybe Coldhands) will appease the masses. I hope they shoot it well.

Joff v. Tyrion is always good fun.

Actually, anything with Tyrion is good fun.

 

[Norman Paperman]

Eagerly awaiting the next episode...gonna be epic watching the guys in the non-book thread lose their minds.

Spoiler

are we thinking this is the Red Wedding episode. I think its called Rains of Castemere.

Per the episode descriptions, episode 9 is what will be epic.



Seems this follows the same formula as the Sopranos in that the big climactic ending is in Episode 9, while episode 10 is used to tie up loose ends, and lay the groundwork for any upcoming plots

 

[Gr00vus]

Here's a minor quandary I'm seeing:

Spoiler

In the books, when the plans are laid for Osha and Rickon to go to Skaagos, they're overheard by one of the occupiers of Winterfell (a mute of course) who eventually "tells" this to Wyman Manderly, who then sends Davos off to find them. How are they going to pull that off now? Just introduce some random mute northerner lounging in the bushes or something?

Tangentially, do we think Rickon will ever amount to much? He's so incredibly undeveloped as a character.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Here's a minor quandary I'm seeing:

Spoiler

In the books, when the plans are laid for Osha and Rickon to go to Skaagos, they're overheard by one of the occupiers of Winterfell (a mute of course) who eventually "tells" this to Wyman Manderly, who then sends Davos off to find them. How are they going to pull that off now? Just introduce some random mute northerner lounging in the bushes or something?

Tangentially, do we think Rickon will ever amount to much? He's so incredibly undeveloped as a character.

Agreed and the non-book readers would have zero clue who he is

 

[sn0mm1s]

Here's a minor quandary I'm seeing:

Spoiler

In the books, when the plans are laid for Osha and Rickon to go to Skaagos, they're overheard by one of the occupiers of Winterfell (a mute of course) who eventually "tells" this to Wyman Manderly, who then sends Davos off to find them. How are they going to pull that off now? Just introduce some random mute northerner lounging in the bushes or something?

Tangentially, do we think Rickon will ever amount to much? He's so incredibly undeveloped as a character.

Spoiler

I wouldn't be surprised if Samwell/Gilly doesn't spill the beans in some manner to either Jon, Stannis, Davos, or Melisandre and that is how Davos knows - since in the books he runs into Bran and the Reeds. When Davos goes to Wyman Manderly for support I bet he knows and tells Manderly about Rickon instead of the other way around. Manderly says he will support Stannis if he can bring Rickon back as proof. Slightly different story more or less the same endpoint.

 

[The Gator]

ya, things are going to be "slow" again this week. Story lines based on the preview: Arya + HoundSam and GillyDarioDavosJoff v. Tyrion oh, the pissing and moaning that will occur!

Spoiler

wonder if Sam the Slayer (and maybe Coldhands) will appease the masses. I hope they shoot it well.

Spoiler

Jon and the wildlings fight could be awesome. Summer mauling guys? Yes please

 

[Gr00vus]

Here's a minor quandary I'm seeing:

Spoiler

In the books, when the plans are laid for Osha and Rickon to go to Skaagos, they're overheard by one of the occupiers of Winterfell (a mute of course) who eventually "tells" this to Wyman Manderly, who then sends Davos off to find them. How are they going to pull that off now? Just introduce some random mute northerner lounging in the bushes or something?

Tangentially, do we think Rickon will ever amount to much? He's so incredibly undeveloped as a character.

Spoiler

I wouldn't be surprised if Samwell/Gilly doesn't spill the beans in some manner to either Jon, Stannis, Davos, or Melisandre and that is how Davos knows - since in the books he runs into Bran and the Reeds. When Davos goes to Wyman Manderly for support I bet he knows and tells Manderly about Rickon instead of the other way around. Manderly says he will support Stannis if he can bring Rickon back as proof. Slightly different story more or less the same endpoint.

Spoiler

Something like that could work. Do you think Rickon actually ends up playing any kind of important role in all this? He's just been baggage so far. I'm figuring he ends up as Lord of Winterfell by the end of all this. Jon either dies or becomes king of all Westeros, Bran binds with the wierwoods and becomes a "god," and I think Rickon comes in ahead of the girls in order of succession, right?

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

War discussion in TV thread prompted me to dig around in the various fan site wikis. this one is interesting (spoilers included):

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/War_of_the_Five_Kings

Very good summary of the various battles, ect.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Here's a minor quandary I'm seeing:

Spoiler

In the books, when the plans are laid for Osha and Rickon to go to Skaagos, they're overheard by one of the occupiers of Winterfell (a mute of course) who eventually "tells" this to Wyman Manderly, who then sends Davos off to find them. How are they going to pull that off now? Just introduce some random mute northerner lounging in the bushes or something?

Tangentially, do we think Rickon will ever amount to much? He's so incredibly undeveloped as a character.

Spoiler

I wouldn't be surprised if Samwell/Gilly doesn't spill the beans in some manner to either Jon, Stannis, Davos, or Melisandre and that is how Davos knows - since in the books he runs into Bran and the Reeds. When Davos goes to Wyman Manderly for support I bet he knows and tells Manderly about Rickon instead of the other way around. Manderly says he will support Stannis if he can bring Rickon back as proof. Slightly different story more or less the same endpoint.

Spoiler

I'm drawing a blank--when did Davos run into Bran and the Reeds?

 

[sn0mm1s]

Here's a minor quandary I'm seeing:

Spoiler

In the books, when the plans are laid for Osha and Rickon to go to Skaagos, they're overheard by one of the occupiers of Winterfell (a mute of course) who eventually "tells" this to Wyman Manderly, who then sends Davos off to find them. How are they going to pull that off now? Just introduce some random mute northerner lounging in the bushes or something?

Tangentially, do we think Rickon will ever amount to much? He's so incredibly undeveloped as a character.

Spoiler

I wouldn't be surprised if Samwell/Gilly doesn't spill the beans in some manner to either Jon, Stannis, Davos, or Melisandre and that is how Davos knows - since in the books he runs into Bran and the Reeds. When Davos goes to Wyman Manderly for support I bet he knows and tells Manderly about Rickon instead of the other way around. Manderly says he will support Stannis if he can bring Rickon back as proof. Slightly different story more or less the same endpoint.

Spoiler

I'm drawing a blank--when did Davos run into Bran and the Reeds?

That "he" is ambiguous. I meant samwell/Gilly

 

[mad sweeney]

Here's a minor quandary I'm seeing:

Spoiler

In the books, when the plans are laid for Osha and Rickon to go to Skaagos, they're overheard by one of the occupiers of Winterfell (a mute of course) who eventually "tells" this to Wyman Manderly, who then sends Davos off to find them. How are they going to pull that off now? Just introduce some random mute northerner lounging in the bushes or something?

Tangentially, do we think Rickon will ever amount to much? He's so incredibly undeveloped as a character.

Spoiler

I wouldn't be surprised if Samwell/Gilly doesn't spill the beans in some manner to either Jon, Stannis, Davos, or Melisandre and that is how Davos knows - since in the books he runs into Bran and the Reeds. When Davos goes to Wyman Manderly for support I bet he knows and tells Manderly about Rickon instead of the other way around. Manderly says he will support Stannis if he can bring Rickon back as proof. Slightly different story more or less the same endpoint.

Spoiler

Something like that could work. Do you think Rickon actually ends up playing any kind of important role in all this? He's just been baggage so far. I'm figuring he ends up as Lord of Winterfell by the end of all this. Jon either dies or becomes king of all Westeros, Bran binds with the wierwoods and becomes a "god," and I think Rickon comes in ahead of the girls in order of succession, right?

Spoiler

I'm thinking Rickon and Tommen both play parts down the line. While Tommen will most likely be proven to not be the Baratheon heir, it won't matter with probably Targs on the throne by the time this blows over (and probably in unity, the Iron Throne of the conquerors will be discarded), he should end up the Lannister heir by the time all of Tywin's family is killed off or essentially abdicates. Rickon and Bran probably end as you say.

 

[sn0mm1s]

Spoiler

I'm thinking Rickon and Tommen both play parts down the line. While Tommen will most likely be proven to not be the Baratheon heir, it won't matter with probably Targs on the throne by the time this blows over (and probably in unity, the Iron Throne of the conquerors will be discarded), he should end up the Lannister heir by the time all of Tywin's family is killed off or essentially abdicates. Rickon and Bran probably end as you say.

Spoiler

I am pretty sure that all the Lannister kids die. Maggy the Frog pretty much tells Cersei that a young queen will cast her down and take everything she cares about and then when her children are dead her little brother will choke the life from her.

I don't think Rickon will play a major role beyond a rallying point for those in the North that prefer Starks over Boltons, Freys, and Karstarks.

 

[mad sweeney]

Spoiler

I'm thinking Rickon and Tommen both play parts down the line. While Tommen will most likely be proven to not be the Baratheon heir, it won't matter with probably Targs on the throne by the time this blows over (and probably in unity, the Iron Throne of the conquerors will be discarded), he should end up the Lannister heir by the time all of Tywin's family is killed off or essentially abdicates. Rickon and Bran probably end as you say.

Spoiler

I am pretty sure that all the Lannister kids die. Maggy the Frog pretty much tells Cersei that a young queen will cast her down and take everything she cares about and then when her children are dead her little brother will choke the life from her. I don't think Rickon will play a major role beyond a rallying point for those in the North that prefer Starks over Boltons, Freys, and Karstarks.

Oh. I'm always forgetting prophecies.

 

[Abrantes]

I don't trust any prophecy in the saga unconditionally, even when they're spelled out neatly like that. Martin himself said that they can be tricky.

Spoiler

Or maybe I'm just a bleeding heart that doesn't want to see Tommen and Myrcella bite the dust.

 

[Bauer]

I haven't read the books but have seen every episode, but I need the input from those that read the books. I would love to go back and read all the books to get more back story, but having seen how things turn out already I wonder if it would be worth it?Thoughts?

I posted this in the non-book thread: If you have the time, I recommend reading them. Even watching the series through season 2, I started book 1 during the last off-season. Knowing some of the outcomes didn't ruin my enjoyment at all. I am not a fast reader by any stretch but got through 1 & 2 and started book 3 around the same time S3 started. I've thoroughly enjoyed reading while watching and have now passed what they will probably cover during this season. Part of the fun has been contrasting the books with the series. I hope to finish all the available books before S4 starts.

Great advice to those who suggested still reading the books even after seeing the show. I started the first book last night and still found myself unable to put it down. With all the conjecture about the happenings at the end of season 3, it makes me almost want to wait to watch the episodes until I get through the books. It's highly doubtful I can demonstrate that type of self control though.

 

[mad sweeney]

I don't trust any prophecy in the saga unconditionally, even when they're spelled out neatly like that. Martin himself said that they can be tricky.

Spoiler

Or maybe I'm just a bleeding heart that doesn't want to see Tommen and Myrcella bite the dust.

Sometimes prophecies don't make sense until after. In the WoT series, the final prophecy was entirely figurative and makes perfect sense but wouldn't have been guessed beforehand.

 

[Norman Paperman]

I don't trust any prophecy in the saga unconditionally, even when they're spelled out neatly like that. Martin himself said that they can be tricky.

Spoiler

Or maybe I'm just a bleeding heart that doesn't want to see Tommen and Myrcella bite the dust.

Spoiler

If anything, it will be Jamie who kills her instead of Tyrion, who everyone will expect.

Though I must say, I hope the show last long enough to see Cersei walk naked through the streets

 

[bonesman]

I haven't read the books but have seen every episode, but I need the input from those that read the books. I would love to go back and read all the books to get more back story, but having seen how things turn out already I wonder if it would be worth it?Thoughts?

I posted this in the non-book thread: If you have the time, I recommend reading them. Even watching the series through season 2, I started book 1 during the last off-season. Knowing some of the outcomes didn't ruin my enjoyment at all. I am not a fast reader by any stretch but got through 1 & 2 and started book 3 around the same time S3 started. I've thoroughly enjoyed reading while watching and have now passed what they will probably cover during this season. Part of the fun has been contrasting the books with the series. I hope to finish all the available books before S4 starts.

Great advice to those who suggested still reading the books even after seeing the show. I started the first book last night and still found myself unable to put it down. With all the conjecture about the happenings at the end of season 3, it makes me almost want to wait to watch the episodes until I get through the books. It's highly doubtful I can demonstrate that type of self control though.

If you really like the show, hold off from reading ahead. Knowing what the books has laid out before the show really takes away from the enjoyment of the show (adds to it in some ways too, but more detracts)... I plowed through all the books at the conclusion of season 2. I wish I didn't know what lies just around the corner.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

TV vs book guess

Spoiler

I'm thinking good chance talisa is eying up Robb's war plans and that letter is to Tywin. So she takes the role of traitor from the mother in the book. I'm guessing the blackfish somehow escapes the red wedding as it doesn't look like he's staying behind. I don't see home running though.

 

[Gr00vus]

TV vs book guess

Spoiler

I'm thinking good chance talisa is eying up Robb's war plans and that letter is to Tywin. So she takes the role of traitor from the mother in the book. I'm guessing the blackfish somehow escapes the red wedding as it doesn't look like he's staying behind. I don't see home running though.

IIRC there was a scene in one of the pre-season trailers of Blackfish diving into some water. I was assuming that was depicting his escape from besieged Riverrun, but maybe it's him escaping the Twins instead?

 

[sjslacker]

Anyone know why Cersei is reffered as a Lannister while Catelyn is refferred to as a Stark? I tried to remember if any other characters kept their maiden name but I could only come up with Cersei. Wondering if it's a pride thing or because it's easier to see Cersei as a Lannister.

Also I recall Joffrey wore something with both the Baratheon and the Lannister sigils. Don't recall anyone else doing that.

 

[Thunderlips]

Anyone know why Cersei is reffered as a Lannister while Catelyn is refferred to as a Stark? I tried to remember if any other characters kept their maiden name but I could only come up with Cersei. Wondering if it's a pride thing or because it's easier to see Cersei as a Lannister. Also I recall Joffrey wore something with both the Baratheon and the Lannister sigils. Don't recall anyone else doing that.

Joffery chose his sigil. I guess he's allowed to do that. Probably something to do with the idea that he's getting static from his dad's side of the family (Stannis and Renly).

 

[dfwboiler]

Not sure if this is a spoiler or not because I know it was at least partially brought up on the show... regarding Edmure Tully...

Spoiler

I was reading one of the Wikis regarding Edmure Tully, and it stated that him attacking the Lannisters at the crossing allowed Tywin to receive word of the upcoming Battle of the Blackwater and take his army to King's Landing.So because he couldn't follow orders, Stannis loses and Robb doesn't get a change to finish the Lannisters on the battlefield?This seems like a bigger deal to me than the show made it out to be.Perhaps he should've taken Edmure's head instead of Rickard Karstarks.

 

[Slider6]

Anyone know why Cersei is reffered as a Lannister while Catelyn is refferred to as a Stark? I tried to remember if any other characters kept their maiden name but I could only come up with Cersei. Wondering if it's a pride thing or because it's easier to see Cersei as a Lannister.

Also I recall Joffrey wore something with both the Baratheon and the Lannister sigils. Don't recall anyone else doing that.

Margery? Didn't she marry Renly?

 

[Thunderlips]

Anyone know why Cersei is reffered as a Lannister while Catelyn is refferred to as a Stark? I tried to remember if any other characters kept their maiden name but I could only come up with Cersei. Wondering if it's a pride thing or because it's easier to see Cersei as a Lannister. Also I recall Joffrey wore something with both the Baratheon and the Lannister sigils. Don't recall anyone else doing that.

Margery? Didn't she marry Renly?

Yeah...but he didn't seal the deal.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Not sure if this is a spoiler or not because I know it was at least partially brought up on the show... regarding Edmure Tully...

Spoiler

I was reading one of the Wikis regarding Edmure Tully, and it stated that him attacking the Lannisters at the crossing allowed Tywin to receive word of the upcoming Battle of the Blackwater and take his army to King's Landing.So because he couldn't follow orders, Stannis loses and Robb doesn't get a change to finish the Lannisters on the battlefield?This seems like a bigger deal to me than the show made it out to be.Perhaps he should've taken Edmure's head instead of Rickard Karstarks.

They talked about it a few times on the show. I think the show made it clearer actually. They should have shown Brienne getting tossed into the bear pit and created more tension there. Missed opportunity. Shame that episode lacked real punch.

 

[Buckna]

Not sure if this is a spoiler or not because I know it was at least partially brought up on the show... regarding Edmure Tully...

Spoiler

I was reading one of the Wikis regarding Edmure Tully, and it stated that him attacking the Lannisters at the crossing allowed Tywin to receive word of the upcoming Battle of the Blackwater and take his army to King's Landing.So because he couldn't follow orders, Stannis loses and Robb doesn't get a change to finish the Lannisters on the battlefield?This seems like a bigger deal to me than the show made it out to be.Perhaps he should've taken Edmure's head instead of Rickard Karstarks.

They talked about it a few times on the show. I think the show made it clearer actually.They should have shown Brienne getting tossed into the bear pit and created more tension there. Missed opportunity. Shame that episode lacked real punch.Edmure:

Spoiler

I liked it better in the book. IIRC, it's told from Cat's perspective as they hold up in Riverrun. Edmure receives orders from Robb to stay in the castle and let Tywin's army pass by. Edmure defies this to protect their families lands and goes out and fights off Tywin until he retreats. Edmure seems a hero at first... until Robb shows up and explains how he ruined all his plans. Tywin would have been cutoff from King's Landing (which would have fallen to Stannis) and caught between Robb's army, Riverrun, and Bolton's troops to the south in Harrenhal and likely wiped out finishing the Lannister's.

They also left out that Edmure had an earlier blunder when he dispersed all of the Tully bannermen and let them all go home to try and take back their seats of power. So instead of some ~10K troops organized and able to join up with Robb's army, the Riverland lords are all spread out across the countryside and easily able to be wiped out by the Lannister armies.

The Bear in the pit looked great, that could have been such an awesome scene. Should have altered it a little bit and had Jaime throw down some swords and when he jumps in and distracts the bear, Brienne cut its head off or something.

 

[sn0mm1s]

Not sure if this is a spoiler or not because I know it was at least partially brought up on the show... regarding Edmure Tully...

Spoiler

I was reading one of the Wikis regarding Edmure Tully, and it stated that him attacking the Lannisters at the crossing allowed Tywin to receive word of the upcoming Battle of the Blackwater and take his army to King's Landing.So because he couldn't follow orders, Stannis loses and Robb doesn't get a change to finish the Lannisters on the battlefield?This seems like a bigger deal to me than the show made it out to be.Perhaps he should've taken Edmure's head instead of Rickard Karstarks.

Spoiler

The show really glossed over how bad that whole situation was (and changed it quite a bit)

In the show, Robb just wanted to kill the Mountain. In the books he wanted Tywin to come West to defend his land.

In the books,

1) By preventing the Lannisters from crossing Tywin received word that Stannis was sailing on King's Landing and abandoned going west.

2) Edmure, to fight the Lannisters, pulled out all of Robb's men from The Twins (which meant no one was there to keep Frey loyal to Robb when Robb married Jeyne.

3) The Tyrells were able to meet up with the Lannisters and defeat Stannis - who would've won if not for that.

So Edmure basically was the cause for Stannis' defeat and Robb's loss of the Freys.

That said, Robb, Catelyn, and Edmure are a bunch of short sighted idiots.

In the show,

Edmure still botched King's Landing but it isn't clear that he was responsible letting the Freys slip away and that he likely was responsible for Robb not battling (and maybe defeating) Tywin or at the very least pillaging the Lannister's lands for food and gold.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

You guys are right. I misremember the show. While the show explicitly goes into what happened in nice detail, the change in detail does change the significance of Edmure's folly.

 

[acarey50]

Anyone know why Cersei is reffered as a Lannister while Catelyn is refferred to as a Stark? I tried to remember if any other characters kept their maiden name but I could only come up with Cersei. Wondering if it's a pride thing or because it's easier to see Cersei as a Lannister. Also I recall Joffrey wore something with both the Baratheon and the Lannister sigils. Don't recall anyone else doing that.

Margery? Didn't she marry Renly?

Yeah...but he didn't seal the deal.

Well, not with Margaery, but he did seal the deal between the families.....

 

[Thunderlips]

Not sure if this is a spoiler or not because I know it was at least partially brought up on the show... regarding Edmure Tully...

Spoiler

I was reading one of the Wikis regarding Edmure Tully, and it stated that him attacking the Lannisters at the crossing allowed Tywin to receive word of the upcoming Battle of the Blackwater and take his army to King's Landing.So because he couldn't follow orders, Stannis loses and Robb doesn't get a change to finish the Lannisters on the battlefield?This seems like a bigger deal to me than the show made it out to be.Perhaps he should've taken Edmure's head instead of Rickard Karstarks.

Spoiler

They talked about it a few times on the show. I think the show made it clearer actually.They should have shown Brienne getting tossed into the bear pit and created more tension there. Missed opportunity. Shame that episode lacked real punch.

Edmure:

Spoiler

I liked it better in the book. IIRC, it's told from Cat's perspective as they hold up in Riverrun. Edmure receives orders from Robb to stay in the castle and let Tywin's army pass by. Edmure defies this to protect their families lands and goes out and fights off Tywin until he retreats. Edmure seems a hero at first... until Robb shows up and explains how he ruined all his plans. Tywin would have been cutoff from King's Landing (which would have fallen to Stannis) and caught between Robb's army, Riverrun, and Bolton's troops to the south in Harrenhal and likely wiped out finishing the Lannister's.

They also left out that Edmure had an earlier blunder when he dispersed all of the Tully bannermen and let them all go home to try and take back their seats of power. So instead of some ~10K troops organized and able to join up with Robb's army, the Riverland lords are all spread out across the countryside and easily able to be wiped out by the Lannister armies.

The Bear in the pit looked great, that could have been such an awesome scene. Should have altered it a little bit and had Jaime throw down some swords and when he jumps in and distracts the bear, Brienne cut its head off or something.

Me? I think they bloodied her up a bit too much. I can't believe she takes that wound to the neck and is still up.

 

[Steed]

Not sure if this is a spoiler or not because I know it was at least partially brought up on the show... regarding Edmure Tully...

Spoiler

I was reading one of the Wikis regarding Edmure Tully, and it stated that him attacking the Lannisters at the crossing allowed Tywin to receive word of the upcoming Battle of the Blackwater and take his army to King's Landing.So because he couldn't follow orders, Stannis loses and Robb doesn't get a change to finish the Lannisters on the battlefield?This seems like a bigger deal to me than the show made it out to be.Perhaps he should've taken Edmure's head instead of Rickard Karstarks.

Spoiler

They talked about it a few times on the show. I think the show made it clearer actually.They should have shown Brienne getting tossed into the bear pit and created more tension there. Missed opportunity. Shame that episode lacked real punch.

Spoiler

Edmure:

I liked it better in the book. IIRC, it's told from Cat's perspective as they hold up in Riverrun. Edmure receives orders from Robb to stay in the castle and let Tywin's army pass by. Edmure defies this to protect their families lands and goes out and fights off Tywin until he retreats. Edmure seems a hero at first... until Robb shows up and explains how he ruined all his plans. Tywin would have been cutoff from King's Landing (which would have fallen to Stannis) and caught between Robb's army, Riverrun, and Bolton's troops to the south in Harrenhal and likely wiped out finishing the Lannister's.

They also left out that Edmure had an earlier blunder when he dispersed all of the Tully bannermen and let them all go home to try and take back their seats of power. So instead of some ~10K troops organized and able to join up with Robb's army, the Riverland lords are all spread out across the countryside and easily able to be wiped out by the Lannister armies.

The Bear in the pit looked great, that could have been such an awesome scene. Should have altered it a little bit and had Jaime throw down some swords and when he jumps in and distracts the bear, Brienne cut its head off or something.

Me? I think they bloodied her up a bit too much. I can't believe she takes that wound to the neck and is still up.

Plus she takes a direct hit that would have taken any mortals head off.

 

[Premier]

Hey there.

So how do the Tales of Dunk and Egg fit into the Song and Ice timeline?

 

[sn0mm1s]

Hey there.So how do the Tales of Dunk and Egg fit into the Song and Ice timeline?

They are well before Robert's Rebellion. IIRC they are about 90 years before AGOT.

 

[Premier]

Hey there.So how do the Tales of Dunk and Egg fit into the Song and Ice timeline?

They are well before Robert's Rebellion. IIRC they are about 90 years before AGOT.

Are these not easily found? Kind of shocked they aren't on kindle or iTunes bookstore.

 

[Swing 51]

Hey there.

So how do the Tales of Dunk and Egg fit into the Song and Ice timeline?

They are well before Robert's Rebellion. IIRC they are about 90 years before AGOT.

Are these not easily found? Kind of shocked they aren't on kindle or iTunes bookstore.

Check out your library that is how I read them. Well worth the read; some events in AFFC made more sense after reading these.

Dunk's story began with The Hedge Knight, originally featured in Robert Silverberg's Legends anthology, and continued in The Sworn Sword, from Legends II, and The Mystery Knight, from Warriors, edited by George R. R. Martin and Gardner Dozois.

The DUNK AND EGG TALES are a series of short novels written by George R. R. Martin, also known as "Tales of the Seven Kingdoms." These tales take place roughly 90-100 years before the events of A Game of Thrones, and follow a young hedge knight named Dunk and his squire, Egg.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I need those dunk and egg tales together in one place. Can they just be found online somewhere?

 

[Premier]

I need those dunk and egg tales together in one place. Can they just be found online somewhere?

 

[Swing 51]

The Dunk and Egg are only about 75 pages per novella. Only place I found them were in my local libraries in a collection of short stories I posted above.

 

[sn0mm1s]

I have them in PDF. PM me your email address and I can send them to you.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Scene question: after Robb finds out about talisa being knocked up but before we see giantsbane teaching Jon snow how to bang, there is a brief scene in the rain outside in Robb's camp. What's going on there? What's the point?

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Scene question: after Robb finds out about talisa being knocked up but before we see giantsbane teaching Jon snow how to bang, there is a brief scene in the rain outside in Robb's camp. What's going on there? What's the point?

I think they said the rain will slow them down another day, and Cat Stark says that will make Walder Frey even more mad seeing it as a slight

 

[Slider6]

Scene question: after Robb finds out about talisa being knocked up but before we see giantsbane teaching Jon snow how to bang, there is a brief scene in the rain outside in Robb's camp. What's going on there? What's the point?

I think they said the rain will slow them down another day, and Cat Stark says that will make Walder Frey even more mad seeing it as a slight

Spoiler

Yeah, unfortunately they aren't being very subtle with the foreshadowing.

 

[renesauz]

Scene question: after Robb finds out about talisa being knocked up but before we see giantsbane teaching Jon snow how to bang, there is a brief scene in the rain outside in Robb's camp. What's going on there? What's the point?

I think they said the rain will slow them down another day, and Cat Stark says that will make Walder Frey even more mad seeing it as a slight

Spoiler

Yeah, unfortunately they aren't being very subtle with the foreshadowing.

Would have thought the same...but a quick loook in the other thread reveals they're fine.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Scene question: after Robb finds out about talisa being knocked up but before we see giantsbane teaching Jon snow how to bang, there is a brief scene in the rain outside in Robb's camp. What's going on there? What's the point?

I think they said the rain will slow them down another day, and Cat Stark says that will make Walder Frey even more mad seeing it as a slight

Spoiler

Yeah, unfortunately they aren't being very subtle with the foreshadowing.

Would have thought the same...but a quick loook in the other thread reveals they're fine.I've had a friend predict it to an extent. I know what was said in the tent regarding the rain delay, I was just making sure I didn't miss something in that transition scene outside list coitus.

 

[Mjolnirs]

I have them in PDF. PM me your email address and I can send them to you.

I've had trouble finding them. PM sent.

 

[Abrantes]

Way better episode than the past couple. Much, much better. I tend to enjoy the more dialogue-driven episodes, apart from last week's. No Theon, thankfully.

Spoiler

Going over "The Rains of Castamere" was great. The foreshadowing for the next episode was great, and I'm very thankful that they didn't beat us over the head with it too much. Ned's death scene was awesome in part because it wasn't advertised in big neon letters, and I feel they did a good job here as well.

Loved the set up for the "Sam the Slayer" moment with the weirwood tree and the crows.

 

[shuke]

What was with the crows?

 

[babydemon90]

They should have had Jaime shave his head, imo