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HBO - Song of Ice&Fire Series -Varsity Thread - no TV only whiners (2 Viewers)

re: foreshadowing - there were just as many foreshadowing moments in the book... Cat's preoccupation with the hospitality food, etc...

 
If anyone has the Audiobook for ASoS, can you point out on what disk the red wedding happens? I've found it in the eBook, but the actor who reads the books is really good and I'd like to listen to it on the way to and from work. TIA

 
Usual21 said:
If anyone has the Audiobook for ASoS, can you point out on what disk the red wedding happens? I've found it in the eBook, but the actor who reads the books is really good and I'd like to listen to it on the way to and from work. TIA
Click to expand...
This is the HBO series and paperback thread only. There is a separate hardback thread for Dragons. If you want to talk about the audio books or ebooks, you need to start your own thread.

;)

 
babydemon90 said:
re: foreshadowing - there were just as many foreshadowing moments in the book... Cat's preoccupation with the hospitality food, etc...
Click to expand...
Yeah, I've been accused of being a #### for saying this before, but I've never understood how a reader could have been shocked by the Red Wedding. I pretty much assumed Robb was dead as soon as he broke the oath. I don't thinks assumed Catelyn would get it, but I never figured Robb would be around for the end game. He never even got a viewpoint chapter, IIRC.
 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
babydemon90 said:
re: foreshadowing - there were just as many foreshadowing moments in the book... Cat's preoccupation with the hospitality food, etc...
Click to expand...
Yeah, I've been accused of being a #### for saying this before, but I've never understood how a reader could have been shocked by the Red Wedding. I pretty much assumed Robb was dead as soon as he broke the oath. I don't thinks assumed Catelyn would get it, but I never figured Robb would be around for the end game. He never even got a viewpoint chapter, IIRC.
Click to expand...
You figured Robb wouldn't last, but I didn't see a total wipeout of a significant portion of the north's top brass and its main army, as well as Kat, coming. And the set up for it was pretty brutal. Martin got you thinking it might be possible for Robb to work out of it - and then wham. You figured Robb might get whacked but there'd be payback by the north - instead Martin wrote near total devastation and left little to no hope for the north any time soon. That's what made it so shocking.

 
Gr00vus said:
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
babydemon90 said:
re: foreshadowing - there were just as many foreshadowing moments in the book... Cat's preoccupation with the hospitality food, etc...
Click to expand...
Yeah, I've been accused of being a #### for saying this before, but I've never understood how a reader could have been shocked by the Red Wedding. I pretty much assumed Robb was dead as soon as he broke the oath. I don't thinks assumed Catelyn would get it, but I never figured Robb would be around for the end game. He never even got a viewpoint chapter, IIRC.
Click to expand...
You figured Robb wouldn't last, but I didn't see a total wipeout of a significant portion of the north's top brass and its main army, as well as Kat, coming. And the set up for it was pretty brutal. Martin got you thinking it might be possible for Robb to work out of it - and then wham. You figured Robb might get whacked but there'd be payback by the north - instead Martin wrote near total devastation and left little to no hope for the north any time soon. That's what made it so shocking.
Click to expand...
For me the worst part of the red wedding was arya being so close to finally reuniting with her family.
 
Yes and no. In the books there was one of Robert's bastards warding with Stannis. Melissandre wanted to sacrifice him for the kings blood, Stannis refused, and they leeched his blood. So the TV show, instead of creating a new character, swapped Gendry for him.

On another topic, should there be a thread for the people who have finished all the books so we can talk freely. Spoilers kinda suck.

 
This prediction from the non-book thread is way more accurate than he realizes:

Frankbot said:
but at the end of the day I bet it's going to end up being a big long story about a midget who ####s up his daddy's ####.
Click to expand...
 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Btw, with two threads for spoiler phones, can we dispense with the tags. Seems a bit silly.
Click to expand...
You know what, #### it, I'm done with spoiler tags. They helped me tremendously as I began watching this show and eventually reading the books, but it's a little much now.

This should just be the general Song of Ice and Fire thread where we can talk about all the books and the episodes freely without spoiler warnings.

We can have a new thread for Winds of Winter if the boards still exist when published.

The Game of Thones TV - non-book thread should become a thread about the TV show only, but allow people who want to know more to ask and have things answered in spoilers if they like.

The new thread can be for people without any intellectual curiosity at all who watch an episode once while reading facebook and then ask questions that are already in the show, but get answers that are totally wrong.

 
Gr00vus said:
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
babydemon90 said:
re: foreshadowing - there were just as many foreshadowing moments in the book... Cat's preoccupation with the hospitality food, etc...
Click to expand...
Yeah, I've been accused of being a #### for saying this before, but I've never understood how a reader could have been shocked by the Red Wedding. I pretty much assumed Robb was dead as soon as he broke the oath. I don't thinks assumed Catelyn would get it, but I never figured Robb would be around for the end game. He never even got a viewpoint chapter, IIRC.
Click to expand...
You figured Robb wouldn't last, but I didn't see a total wipeout of a significant portion of the north's top brass and its main army, as well as Kat, coming. And the set up for it was pretty brutal. Martin got you thinking it might be possible for Robb to work out of it - and then wham. You figured Robb might get whacked but there'd be payback by the north - instead Martin wrote near total devastation and left little to no hope for the north any time soon. That's what made it so shocking.
Click to expand...
Agreed. The North's role in the war ended completely in one fell swoop, and it gets hard to take Lannister victory after victory (Edard's beheading, King's Landing Defense, Red Wedding).

 
Clifford said:
Gr00vus said:
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
babydemon90 said:
re: foreshadowing - there were just as many foreshadowing moments in the book... Cat's preoccupation with the hospitality food, etc...
Click to expand...
Yeah, I've been accused of being a #### for saying this before, but I've never understood how a reader could have been shocked by the Red Wedding. I pretty much assumed Robb was dead as soon as he broke the oath. I don't thinks assumed Catelyn would get it, but I never figured Robb would be around for the end game. He never even got a viewpoint chapter, IIRC.
Click to expand...
You figured Robb wouldn't last, but I didn't see a total wipeout of a significant portion of the north's top brass and its main army, as well as Kat, coming. And the set up for it was pretty brutal. Martin got you thinking it might be possible for Robb to work out of it - and then wham. You figured Robb might get whacked but there'd be payback by the north - instead Martin wrote near total devastation and left little to no hope for the north any time soon. That's what made it so shocking.
Click to expand...
Agreed. The North's role in the war ended completely in one fell swoop, and it gets hard to take Lannister victory after victory (Edard's beheading, King's Landing Defense, Red Wedding).
Click to expand...
its all kind of bittersweet though. Jamie lost his sword hand, Tyrion lost his position as hand and married a stark girl. And the Queen is engaged to Loras. its coming up roses for Tywin and Joffery.

 
I am always shocked at the abruptness of the deaths in the books. How disjointed the reveal is. The Red Wedding didn't upset me as much as many others in the books, but it certainly surprised me. I felt like the Starks had what was coming to them, mistake after bad judgment after mistake. Honor doesn't mean much when you don't have anyone to carry on your legacy.

 
Finally got to watch the episode with my wife last night. Been trying not to spoil this for 2 years since reading the books. Her reaction was priceless as she stood up and let out a "Noooooooo!" when the Frey stabbed Robb's wife.

As pissed as I was when I read about it, I can appreciate the genious behind the red wedding a little more after watching & reading the reactions of non book readers.

 
Fiddles said:
Gr00vus said:
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
babydemon90 said:
re: foreshadowing - there were just as many foreshadowing moments in the book... Cat's preoccupation with the hospitality food, etc...
Click to expand...
Yeah, I've been accused of being a #### for saying this before, but I've never understood how a reader could have been shocked by the Red Wedding. I pretty much assumed Robb was dead as soon as he broke the oath. I don't thinks assumed Catelyn would get it, but I never figured Robb would be around for the end game. He never even got a viewpoint chapter, IIRC.
Click to expand...
You figured Robb wouldn't last, but I didn't see a total wipeout of a significant portion of the north's top brass and its main army, as well as Kat, coming. And the set up for it was pretty brutal. Martin got you thinking it might be possible for Robb to work out of it - and then wham. You figured Robb might get whacked but there'd be payback by the north - instead Martin wrote near total devastation and left little to no hope for the north any time soon. That's what made it so shocking.
Click to expand...
For me the worst part of the red wedding was arya being so close to finally reuniting with her family.
Click to expand...
It was even worse in the book when they ended Arya's chapter with the possibility that she too was dead. I had to put the book down for a while after that.

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Btw, with two threads for spoiler phones, can we dispense with the tags. Seems a bit silly.
Click to expand...
You know what, #### it, I'm done with spoiler tags. They helped me tremendously as I began watching this show and eventually reading the books, but it's a little much now.

This should just be the general Song of Ice and Fire thread where we can talk about all the books and the episodes freely without spoiler warnings.

We can have a new thread for Winds of Winter if the boards still exist when published.

The Game of Thones TV - non-book thread should become a thread about the TV show only, but allow people who want to know more to ask and have things answered in spoilers if they like.

The new thread can be for people without any intellectual curiosity at all who watch an episode once while reading facebook and then ask questions that are already in the show, but get answers that are totally wrong.
Click to expand...
Perfect.

So who is in the "this all comes down to Bran warging into Danaerys's dragons and the two of them along with Jon Snow leading the army of the north and Stannis leading rest of Westeros in final showdown between humans and white walkers" camp?

 
Rankings of Upsetness-

Bran/Rickon - I think I quit reading for a week after this

Arya - Like a few said, I had to skim chapter titles after that

Eddard

Rob/Kat

Joffery

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Clifford said:
Leeroy Jenkins said:
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Btw, with two threads for spoiler phones, can we dispense with the tags. Seems a bit silly.
Click to expand...
You know what, #### it, I'm done with spoiler tags. They helped me tremendously as I began watching this show and eventually reading the books, but it's a little much now.

This should just be the general Song of Ice and Fire thread where we can talk about all the books and the episodes freely without spoiler warnings.

We can have a new thread for Winds of Winter if the boards still exist when published.

The Game of Thones TV - non-book thread should become a thread about the TV show only, but allow people who want to know more to ask and have things answered in spoilers if they like.

The new thread can be for people without any intellectual curiosity at all who watch an episode once while reading facebook and then ask questions that are already in the show, but get answers that are totally wrong.
Click to expand...
Perfect.

So who is in the "this all comes down to Bran warging into Danaerys's dragons and the two of them along with Jon Snow leading the army of the north and Stannis leading rest of Westeros in final showdown between humans and white walkers" camp?
Click to expand...
Somebody change the titles to reflect this. Done and done.

 
I don't think Bran will warg with the dragons. They seem to have taken some pains to highlight that Bran is unique because he can warg to humans. This is completely new speculation that I'm throwing out of my ###, but there would be a certain narrative symmetry if Bran were to be able to enter Catelyn and in some way heal her pain. If we think of the journey from Catelyn Stary to Lady Stoneheart as one that essentially starts with Bran's injury, there's a certain appeal to having it be Bran who walks her back.

 
Clifford said:
Yes and no. In the books there was one of Robert's bastards warding with Stannis. Melissandre wanted to sacrifice him for the kings blood, Stannis refused, and they leeched his blood. So the TV show, instead of creating a new character, swapped Gendry for him.

On another topic, should there be a thread for the people who have finished all the books so we can talk freely. Spoilers kinda suck.
Click to expand...
There is one already but nobody uses it - http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=241929&hl=

 
I am in favor of removing the spoiler tags from this thread. Make this thread for people all caught up on the books and the show.

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
I don't think Bran will warg with the dragons. They seem to have taken some pains to highlight that Bran is unique because he can warg to humans. This is completely new speculation that I'm throwing out of my ###, but there would be a certain narrative symmetry if Bran were to be able to enter Catelyn and in some way heal her pain. If we think of the journey from Catelyn Stary to Lady Stoneheart as one that essentially starts with Bran's injury, there's a certain appeal to having it be Bran who walks her back.
Click to expand...
Prologue of Book5 indicates that Bran is not as unique as you think.

 
(HULK) said:
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
I don't think Bran will warg with the dragons. They seem to have taken some pains to highlight that Bran is unique because he can warg to humans. This is completely new speculation that I'm throwing out of my ###, but there would be a certain narrative symmetry if Bran were to be able to enter Catelyn and in some way heal her pain. If we think of the journey from Catelyn Stary to Lady Stoneheart as one that essentially starts with Bran's injury, there's a certain appeal to having it be Bran who walks her back.
Click to expand...
Prologue of Book5 indicates that Bran is not as unique as you think.
Click to expand...
:yes: I was thinking that when Jojen was giving his spiel in the show this week.

 
RE the red weddingi was sure something was going down, I actually thought robb was going to get betrayed in battle, but the scope of what happened was shockingnot sad though, Cat had become #####y to me and Robb was kind of a putzI was angry ant the freys for sure, still want them to get their comeupance

 
So, Coldhands next week? Jon gets to castle black to warn the few who are left and prep for battle? I do not think we get the first stage of the battle next week. I'm not sure what cliffhanger we get, although may Coldhands is a bit of one, especially if they show him to actually be Benjen Stark. What else could be in store for the season finale?

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
So, Coldhands next week? Jon gets to castle black to warn the few who are left and prep for battle? I do not think we get the first stage of the battle next week. I'm not sure what cliffhanger we get, although may Coldhands is a bit of one, especially if they show him to actually be Benjen Stark. What else could be in store for the season finale?
Click to expand...
I'm thinking Ygritte buys it next week - that might be the closing scene. Dany starts on the road to Mereen. Maybe Coldhands/Sam/Bran et. al. meet - though they probably should have already intro'ed coldhands, maybe just that. Something down at king's landing - maybe they begin plotting Joffrey's "present" and Sansa's escape. Obviously some gloating there by Tywin/Cersie. Maybe Jaime makes it to King's Landing. Arya/Hound head to saltpans. Then again from the preview it looks like there will be some Stannis/Davos/Mellisandre, some Theon and I think I saw "Yara" in there as well. So I've probably put way too much in there.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
(HULK) said:
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
I don't think Bran will warg with the dragons. They seem to have taken some pains to highlight that Bran is unique because he can warg to humans. This is completely new speculation that I'm throwing out of my ###, but there would be a certain narrative symmetry if Bran were to be able to enter Catelyn and in some way heal her pain. If we think of the journey from Catelyn Stary to Lady Stoneheart as one that essentially starts with Bran's injury, there's a certain appeal to having it be Bran who walks her back.
Click to expand...
Prologue of Book5 indicates that Bran is not as unique as you think.
Click to expand...
Remind me please...it's been sooooooo long.

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
So, Coldhands next week? Jon gets to castle black to warn the few who are left and prep for battle? I do not think we get the first stage of the battle next week. I'm not sure what cliffhanger we get, although may Coldhands is a bit of one, especially if they show him to actually be Benjen Stark. What else could be in store for the season finale?
Click to expand...
The cliffhanger could be Lady Stonheart

 
Clifford said:
(HULK) said:
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
I don't think Bran will warg with the dragons. They seem to have taken some pains to highlight that Bran is unique because he can warg to humans. This is completely new speculation that I'm throwing out of my ###, but there would be a certain narrative symmetry if Bran were to be able to enter Catelyn and in some way heal her pain. If we think of the journey from Catelyn Stary to Lady Stoneheart as one that essentially starts with Bran's injury, there's a certain appeal to having it be Bran who walks her back.
Click to expand...
Prologue of Book5 indicates that Bran is not as unique as you think.
Click to expand...
Remind me please...it's been sooooooo long.
Click to expand...
Varymyr, after escaping from the wilding defeat at the wall, does a last gasp warg into another wildling - not totally successfully though. It's also implied that Varymyr had warged into other humans back when he was younger.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Right, ok do remember that. And you don't have to use spoiler tags. The illiterate or slow are no longer cowed to in here.

 
Hodor said:
Leeroy Jenkins said:
So, Coldhands next week? Jon gets to castle black to warn the few who are left and prep for battle? I do not think we get the first stage of the battle next week. I'm not sure what cliffhanger we get, although may Coldhands is a bit of one, especially if they show him to actually be Benjen Stark. What else could be in store for the season finale?
Click to expand...
The cliffhanger could be Lady Stonheart
Click to expand...
Think we get a Nymeria sighting? I forget whether a roaming pack of wolves has been mentioned at all on the show.

 
Clifford said:
Right, ok do remember that. And you don't have to use spoiler tags. The illiterate or slow are no longer cowed to in here.
Click to expand...
I'll probably still stick with them just in case a someone not caught up happens to hit this thread (purposefully or accidentally). I'd feel freer about the no spoiler thing in the ADWD thread.

 
Hodor said:
Leeroy Jenkins said:
So, Coldhands next week? Jon gets to castle black to warn the few who are left and prep for battle? I do not think we get the first stage of the battle next week. I'm not sure what cliffhanger we get, although may Coldhands is a bit of one, especially if they show him to actually be Benjen Stark. What else could be in store for the season finale?
Click to expand...
The cliffhanger could be Lady Stonheart
Click to expand...
too early. gotta make people forget about her to make it more shocking.
 
Gr00vus said:
Clifford said:
Right, ok do remember that. And you don't have to use spoiler tags. The illiterate or slow are no longer cowed to in here.
Click to expand...
I'll probably still stick with them just in case a someone not caught up happens to hit this thread (purposefully or accidentally). I'd feel freer about the no spoiler thing in the ADWD thread.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Guess I can't read this thread anymore. I've read through book 3. Dangerous to read this one....cast out of the TV thread....

 
Gr00vus said:
Gr00vus, on 04 Jun 2013 - 13:46, said:

Leeroy Jenkins said:
Leeroy Jenkins, on 04 Jun 2013 - 13:41, said:So, Coldhands next week? Jon gets to castle black to warn the few who are left and prep for battle? I do not think we get the first stage of the battle next week. I'm not sure what cliffhanger we get, although may Coldhands is a bit of one, especially if they show him to actually be Benjen Stark. What else could be in store for the season finale?
Click to expand...
I'm thinking Ygritte buys it next week - that might be the closing scene. Dany starts on the road to Mereen. Maybe Coldhands/Sam/Bran et. al. meet - though they probably should have already intro'ed coldhands, maybe just that. Something down at king's landing - maybe they begin plotting Joffrey's "present" and Sansa's escape. Obviously some gloating there by Tywin/Cersie. Maybe Jaime makes it to King's Landing. Arya/Hound head to saltpans. Then again from the preview it looks like there will be some Stannis/Davos/Mellisandre, some Theon and I think I saw "Yara" in there as well. So I've probably put way too much in there.
Click to expand...
Maybe Davos frees Gendry?
 
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