HBO - Song of Ice&Fire Series -Varsity Thread - no TV only whiners (2 Viewers)

[Cold Dead Hands]

If all this Rhaegar speculation has merit, Jon can't be dead, right? Seems like he would be too important even for Martin to kill off in that event.

I would have to imagine that Jon is not dead.

 

[parrot]

How did Ned know to go to the Tower at all?

I recall seeing a theory somewhere that Ashara Dayne told Ned about the Tower of Joy, and the guilt over Ned then killing her brother there led to her suicide. Not sure if there's anything in the text to support it, but it is an interesting theory.

 

[jamny]

Also, would it be worth it to set up an alias and then go into the TV ONLY THREAD!!!!!!! as a non book reader, yet speculate correctly on everything that happens this season?

You realize people can see this thread too right? Don't be a doosh.

Uhh...yeah. Obviously I'm not too concerned with that perfect crime.

Spoliers Nazi's are douchebags though. I get it...you don't want to realize that Jofferey and Tywin die this season. No reason to get all bent out of shape because someone mentions that Mycella has relevance.

I already know what happens. You're just being a putz for no reason. You have your thread here. Why go ruin the show for others? Did you not get hugged enough as a kid?

Hey Chief....where did I ruin the show for others? The kid asked a question and I said that I didn't think they did a good enough job of representing Dorne. If that's ruining stuff for you or him....grow up and get thicker skin. If my comment is the worst thing that's happened to people in that thread...then they're doing pretty good in life.

I believe the comment is based on your thinking about going into the non-book thread and throwing out spoilers under the guise of innocent speculation.

 

[Thunderlips]

Also, would it be worth it to set up an alias and then go into the TV ONLY THREAD!!!!!!! as a non book reader, yet speculate correctly on everything that happens this season?

You realize people can see this thread too right? Don't be a doosh.

Uhh...yeah. Obviously I'm not too concerned with that perfect crime.

Spoliers Nazi's are douchebags though. I get it...you don't want to realize that Jofferey and Tywin die this season. No reason to get all bent out of shape because someone mentions that Mycella has relevance.

I already know what happens. You're just being a putz for no reason. You have your thread here. Why go ruin the show for others? Did you not get hugged enough as a kid?

Hey Chief....where did I ruin the show for others? The kid asked a question and I said that I didn't think they did a good enough job of representing Dorne. If that's ruining stuff for you or him....grow up and get thicker skin. If my comment is the worst thing that's happened to people in that thread...then they're doing pretty good in life.

I believe the comment is based on your thinking about going into the non-book thread and throwing out spoilers under the guise of innocent speculation.

The guy wants to be playground monitor for stuff people don't think about seriously doing but mention out loud ?....Come on....guy should get a hobby.

 

[Buckna]

I've forgotten - did Dontos give Sansa a necklace at this point in the books? Or do you think this necklace in the show ends up being a stand in for the poison veil?

He never gave her a necklace - only a hairnet that she had to wear at the wedding if she wanted to go home. It is the substitute for the hairnet - especially since the stones looked like amethyst.

Iirc, the gems in the episode last night were blue, and as someone mentioned, Daario gave Dany a blue flower last night and explained to her it was poisonous.

 

[Buckna]

Good start. Only negative would be the recasting of Daario. Liked that the first guy was a very different complexion and look / sound than most Westorosi. Lended itself more towards why Dany would be so infatuated with him. Interesting they put the Dreadfort & Dragonstone in the credits but we saw neither. I wouldnt think there would be enough time next episode since I imagine most of the episode will be on the wedding.

I miss Readhead Roz whenever we see a brothel now...

 

[psychobillies]

I've forgotten - did Dontos give Sansa a necklace at this point in the books? Or do you think this necklace in the show ends up being a stand in for the poison veil?

He never gave her a necklace - only a hairnet that she had to wear at the wedding if she wanted to go home. It is the substitute for the hairnet - especially since the stones looked like amethyst.

Iirc, the gems in the episode last night were blue, and as someone mentioned, Daario gave Dany a blue flower last night and explained to her it was poisonous.

I don't think the blue rose was the one that he called poisonous, but it was not a coincidence at all.

 

[Daywalker]

Good start. Only negative would be the recasting of Daario. Liked that the first guy was a very different complexion and look / sound than most Westorosi. Lended itself more towards why Dany would be so infatuated with him. Interesting they put the Dreadfort & Dragonstone in the credits but we saw neither. I wouldnt think there would be enough time next episode since I imagine most of the episode will be on the wedding.

I miss Readhead Roz whenever we see a brothel now...

I understand the recasting of Daario. But the new guy misses the mark as well. HBO fans will know him as the junkie from Treme. Someone like the actor playing Oberyn Martell, Perdro Pascal, is more who I imagined playing the part.

 

[Daywalker]

I forget more about this show then I know.

Is the prevailing theory that Jon Snow is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Neds' sister Lyanna Stark? How would he be related to Daeneyrs then?

 

[Daywalker]

"In the cold night air the wound was smoking." The cold air or Jon is fire-born?

Jon is going to live.

I imagine a scene in the coming books where Daenerys goes against Jon and he survives the dragon's breath. She realizes he is of her blood.

 

[Cold Dead Hands]

I forget more about this show then I know.

Is the prevailing theory that Jon Snow is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Neds' sister Lyanna Stark? How would he be related to Daeneyrs then?

She would be his Aunt Dany.

 

[(HULK)]

I've forgotten - did Dontos give Sansa a necklace at this point in the books? Or do you think this necklace in the show ends up being a stand in for the poison veil?

He never gave her a necklace - only a hairnet that she had to wear at the wedding if she wanted to go home. It is the substitute for the hairnet - especially since the stones looked like amethyst.

Iirc, the gems in the episode last night were blue, and as someone mentioned, Daario gave Dany a blue flower last night and explained to her it was poisonous.

Oye.

The blue rose was the "dusk rose" and used to make a healing tea.

The red flower, forget its name, was poisonous.

 

[(HULK)]

I can't think of a single person who thinks that Jon is actually dead.

You guys are forgetting that this is Martin. Which probably means Jon is dead.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I forget more about this show then I know.

Is the prevailing theory that Jon Snow is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Neds' sister Lyanna Stark? How would he be related to Daeneyrs then?

Can't speak to the show since I'm waiting to watch, but R+L=J is probably the most speculated upon idea in the books. If you plug that equation into Google you'll find more than you could read in a lifetime. Some of it is very well argued, some of it is pretty farfetched and some of it is proudly lunatic.

 

[Abrantes]

I can't think of a single person who thinks that Jon is actually dead.

You guys are forgetting that this is Martin. Which probably means Jon is dead.

Martin's reputation as a merciless killer of important characters is greatly exaggerated, if you ask me.

 

[kneeshooter]

"In the cold night air the wound was smoking." The cold air or Jon is fire-born?

Jon is going to live.

I imagine a scene in the coming books where Daenerys goes against Jon and he survives the dragon's breath. She realizes he is of her blood.

Jon already has suffered a serious burn to his hand in his fight with the wights at Castle Black on Book 1. Not to say he isn't a Targ, but not on the same level as Dany.

 

[(HULK)]

I can't think of a single person who thinks that Jon is actually dead.

You guys are forgetting that this is Martin. Which probably means Jon is dead.

Martin's reputation as a merciless killer of important characters is greatly exaggerated, if you ask me.

I disagree.

Althought I've read non Fire & Ice Martin and he does it less often outside of this series.

 

[encaitar]

I can't think of a single person who thinks that Jon is actually dead.

You guys are forgetting that this is Martin. Which probably means Jon is dead.

Martin's reputation as a merciless killer of important characters is greatly exaggerated, if you ask me.

Ned Stark

Robb Stark

Tywin Lannister

Joffrey Baratheon

Robert Baratheon

Renly Baratheon

Balon Greyjoy

Viserys Targaryaen

Khal Drogo

These are just the dead men who were(or could have been) a king at one point in the story. I'd say Martin's rep as a ruthless killer is quite intact.

 

[sn0mm1s]

I can't think of a single person who thinks that Jon is actually dead.

You guys are forgetting that this is Martin. Which probably means Jon is dead.

Martin's reputation as a merciless killer of important characters is greatly exaggerated, if you ask me.

Ned Stark

Robb Stark

Tywin Lannister

Joffrey Baratheon

Robert Baratheon

Renly Baratheon

Balon Greyjoy

Viserys Targaryaen

Khal Drogo

These are just the dead men who were(or could have been) a king at one point in the story. I'd say Martin's rep as a ruthless killer is quite intact.

With the could've been king restriction you can still add:

Quentyn Martell

Aemon Targaryen

 

[The Hank]

Im not sure if it has been linked, by my wife is looking for all of the released Chapters from GRRM for Winds of Winter, she has the Mercy excerpt but wondering if there were any other floating out there.

Also if anyone has any of the novellas in .pdf form that'd be appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Ned Stark

Robb Stark

Tywin Lannister

Joffrey Baratheon

Robert Baratheon

Renly Baratheon

Balon Greyjoy

Viserys Targaryaen

Khal Drogo

But none of these are POV characters. The only one of those he nuked (sort of) is Cat. I think?

ETA: looked it up and they list Eddard as a POV. Aerys Oakheart and Quentyn Martell, too I see. Also all of the POV characters in the prologues end up dead at the end of the chapter.

But wow... even the minor ones make it out alive so far for the most part. Wouldn't have guessed that.

 

[sn0mm1s]

Ned Stark

Robb Stark

Tywin Lannister

Joffrey Baratheon

Robert Baratheon

Renly Baratheon

Balon Greyjoy

Viserys Targaryaen

Khal Drogo

But none of these are POV characters. The only one of those he nuked (sort of) is Cat.

Ned was a major POV.

 

[sn0mm1s]

Im not sure if it has been linked, by my wife is looking for all of the released Chapters from GRRM for Winds of Winter, she has the Mercy excerpt but wondering if there were any other floating out there.

Also if anyone has any of the novellas in .pdf form that'd be appreciated.

Thanks.

I have the novellas and Arianne's excerpt (don't have Theon's). PM me your email address and I will send them.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Ned Stark

Robb Stark

Tywin Lannister

Joffrey Baratheon

Robert Baratheon

Renly Baratheon

Balon Greyjoy

Viserys Targaryaen

Khal Drogo

But none of these are POV characters. The only one of those he nuked (sort of) is Cat.

Ned was a major POV.

Yeah... looked it up and corrected above. There are a couple other minor ones too.

 

[Thunderlips]

IMO,

Rhaegar and Lyanna loved one another (he proclaimed her Queen of that Joust he won...over his own wife).

She went away with him. Noone else knew (maybe Benjen as I'm not sure as to why he took the black).

Robert started the war; Ned followed.

Ned tracked her down to the Tower of Joy. His boys fought the Kinsguard.

Howland Reed warged out Arthur Dayne.

Ned got in the tower...found John Snow and Lyanna....Lyanna explained their love.

The important thing to remember is that as the consumer of the story...we're only told Rober's POV of the Targaryans....and that our dislike of them is reinofrced by the idea that Ned (whom we're supposed to like) went along with Robert.

 

[Kraft...]

Im not sure if it has been linked, by my wife is looking for all of the released Chapters from GRRM for Winds of Winter, she has the Mercy excerpt but wondering if there were any other floating out there.

Also if anyone has any of the novellas in .pdf form that'd be appreciated.

Thanks.

I have the novellas and Arianne's excerpt (don't have Theon's). PM me your email address and I will send them.

Was there also a Victarion chapter? I recall reading one but can't remember for sure.

 

[sn0mm1s]

Im not sure if it has been linked, by my wife is looking for all of the released Chapters from GRRM for Winds of Winter, she has the Mercy excerpt but wondering if there were any other floating out there.

Also if anyone has any of the novellas in .pdf form that'd be appreciated.

Thanks.

I have the novellas and Arianne's excerpt (don't have Theon's). PM me your email address and I will send them.

Was there also a Victarion chapter? I recall reading one but can't remember for sure.

I don't think it was officially released - just read at a convention of some sort. There is a Tyrion one when you install the World of Ice and Fire mobile app. AFAIK, Theon, Tyrion, Arianne, and Arya are the only ones that were ever out in some sort of readable format online. Barristan is in a book (perhaps if you buy a digital copy of ADWD you can read it:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/106260-how-do-i-find-or-read-sample-chapters/

The above thread has links to most of the available stuff online.

 

[Gr00vus]

I can't think of a single person who thinks that Jon is actually dead.

You guys are forgetting that this is Martin. Which probably means Jon is dead.

Maybe he goes the opposite way of fire resurrection and ends up as a pseudo Other, like Cold Hands? Maybe that fits with the whole blue flower growing out of The Wall vision.

I don't think he leaves the main narrative, one way or another.

The real head scratcher is who the 3rd dragon head is - I know Martin has lead us down a road with "young Griff" but I'm having trouble buying it.

 

[(HULK)]

I can't think of a single person who thinks that Jon is actually dead.

You guys are forgetting that this is Martin. Which probably means Jon is dead.

Maybe he goes the opposite way of fire resurrection and ends up as a pseudo Other, like Cold Hands? Maybe that fits with the whole blue flower growing out of The Wall vision.

I don't think he leaves the main narrative, one way or another.

The real head scratcher is who the 3rd dragon head is - I know Martin has lead us down a road with "young Griff" but I'm having trouble buying it.

Whatever it is, I expect to be suprised. I know Jon, Tyrion, and Khalessi is the predominate theory... and maybe thats correct... but I almost expect it NOT to be

 

[Gr00vus]

I can't think of a single person who thinks that Jon is actually dead.

You guys are forgetting that this is Martin. Which probably means Jon is dead.

Maybe he goes the opposite way of fire resurrection and ends up as a pseudo Other, like Cold Hands? Maybe that fits with the whole blue flower growing out of The Wall vision.

I don't think he leaves the main narrative, one way or another.

The real head scratcher is who the 3rd dragon head is - I know Martin has lead us down a road with "young Griff" but I'm having trouble buying it.

Whatever it is, I expect to be suprised. I know Jon, Tyrion, and Khalessi is the predominate theory... and maybe thats correct... but I almost expect it NOT to be

So you're saying Tywin wasn't really Tyrion's dad? That would be a zinger.

 

[(HULK)]

I can't think of a single person who thinks that Jon is actually dead.

You guys are forgetting that this is Martin. Which probably means Jon is dead.

Maybe he goes the opposite way of fire resurrection and ends up as a pseudo Other, like Cold Hands? Maybe that fits with the whole blue flower growing out of The Wall vision.

I don't think he leaves the main narrative, one way or another.

The real head scratcher is who the 3rd dragon head is - I know Martin has lead us down a road with "young Griff" but I'm having trouble buying it.

Whatever it is, I expect to be suprised. I know Jon, Tyrion, and Khalessi is the predominate theory... and maybe thats correct... but I almost expect it NOT to be

So you're saying Tywin wasn't really Tyrion's dad? That would be a zinger.

Theory is that the Mad King raped Tyrion's mom and he is the by product of that.

 

[Gr00vus]

I can't think of a single person who thinks that Jon is actually dead.

You guys are forgetting that this is Martin. Which probably means Jon is dead.

Maybe he goes the opposite way of fire resurrection and ends up as a pseudo Other, like Cold Hands? Maybe that fits with the whole blue flower growing out of The Wall vision.

I don't think he leaves the main narrative, one way or another.

The real head scratcher is who the 3rd dragon head is - I know Martin has lead us down a road with "young Griff" but I'm having trouble buying it.

Whatever it is, I expect to be suprised. I know Jon, Tyrion, and Khalessi is the predominate theory... and maybe thats correct... but I almost expect it NOT to be

So you're saying Tywin wasn't really Tyrion's dad? That would be a zinger.

Theory is that the Mad King raped Tyrion's mom and he is the by product of that.

Interesting.

 

[dancer]

I've forgotten - did Dontos give Sansa a necklace at this point in the books? Or do you think this necklace in the show ends up being a stand in for the poison veil?

He never gave her a necklace - only a hairnet that she had to wear at the wedding if she wanted to go home. It is the substitute for the hairnet - especially since the stones looked like amethyst.

Iirc, the gems in the episode last night were blue, and as someone mentioned, Daario gave Dany a blue flower last night and explained to her it was poisonous.

Oye.

The blue rose was the "dusk rose" and used to make a healing tea.

The red flower, forget its name, was poisonous.

More specifically, he said the blue rose cures fever.

Let's tie this to all the Lyanna discussion in this thread currently...

• Lyanna's favorite flower was blue rose
• Rhaegar gave her a crown of blue roses at Harrenhal to start the whole "relationship"
• Dany saw a vision in HotU of a blue rose growing in the wall of ice (Jon at wall?)
• Lyanna's crypt has a garland of blue roses
• Lyanna was surrounded by roses as she lay dying in ToJ - someone's attempt to cure her of the fever she died from?

 

[Swing 51]

Great thread fellas! I can't get enough of the theories in this series.

 

[Abrantes]

I can't think of a single person who thinks that Jon is actually dead.

You guys are forgetting that this is Martin. Which probably means Jon is dead.

Martin's reputation as a merciless killer of important characters is greatly exaggerated, if you ask me.

Ned Stark

Robb Stark

Tywin Lannister

Joffrey Baratheon

Robert Baratheon

Renly Baratheon

Balon Greyjoy

Viserys Targaryaen

Khal Drogo

These are just the dead men who were(or could have been) a king at one point in the story. I'd say Martin's rep as a ruthless killer is quite intact.

My issue is that he's spent the past two books toying with and undermining the idea of death in the saga, without killing a single major character in them. Calling him a killer after A Storm of Swords is logical, but two books later, I certainly wouldn't say that his reputation is intact.

Considering that Jon is most certainly coming back, Quentyn's death was probably the "biggest" of the past two books, and my reaction was more "well, that was a ####### waste of book space" than "OMG SHOCK". Other than relatively minor character deaths, let's see:

-The Mountain has supposedly become Gregorstein. Coming back in a different from.

-The Hound became a gravedigger. Fake death.

-Catelyn comes back as a stupid spirit of vengeance.

-Beric Dondarrion is Resurrection Man.

-Davos' death was obviously fake.

-We know Stannis isn't dead, despite Ramsay's letter.

-Brienne wasn't actually hanged, despite the tease.

-Tyrion survived a handful of "is-he-dead-oh-wait-no" chapter-ending cliffhangers.

-Theon was captured, rather than killed.

-Mance Rayder came back, since they burned Rattleshirt instead.

-Asha with a totally unbelievable chapter cliffhanger.

-"Look how edgy I am killing Jon! Nah, not really."

GRRM has said that he tries to avoid typical fantasy tropes like characters coming back to life, but he's not helping his case lately.

 

[Thunderlips]

I can't think of a single person who thinks that Jon is actually dead.

You guys are forgetting that this is Martin. Which probably means Jon is dead.

Martin's reputation as a merciless killer of important characters is greatly exaggerated, if you ask me.

Ned Stark

Robb Stark

Tywin Lannister

Joffrey Baratheon

Robert Baratheon

Renly Baratheon

Balon Greyjoy

Viserys Targaryaen

Khal Drogo

These are just the dead men who were(or could have been) a king at one point in the story. I'd say Martin's rep as a ruthless killer is quite intact.

My issue is that he's spent the past two books toying with and undermining the idea of death in the saga, without killing a single major character in them. Calling him a killer after A Storm of Swords is logical, but two books later, I certainly wouldn't say that his reputation is intact.

Considering that Jon is most certainly coming back, Quentyn's death was probably the "biggest" of the past two books, and my reaction was more "well, that was a ####### waste of book space" than "OMG SHOCK". Other than relatively minor character deaths, let's see:

-The Mountain has supposedly become Gregorstein. Coming back in a different from.

-The Hound became a gravedigger. Fake death.

-Catelyn comes back as a stupid spirit of vengeance.

-Beric Dondarrion is Resurrection Man.

-Davos' death was obviously fake.

-We know Stannis isn't dead, despite Ramsay's letter.

-Brienne wasn't actually hanged, despite the tease.

-Tyrion survived a handful of "is-he-dead-oh-wait-no" chapter-ending cliffhangers.

-Theon was captured, rather than killed.

-Mance Rayder came back, since they burned Rattleshirt instead.

-Asha with a totally unbelievable chapter cliffhanger.

-"Look how edgy I am killing Jon! Nah, not really."

GRRM has said that he tries to avoid typical fantasy tropes like characters coming back to life, but he's not helping his case lately.

I can forgive most of it because it's character heresay. I think he draws a little too much on the "cliffhanger ending" for each chapter.....but I do like all of the heresay.

Forgot the Old Bear.

 

[sn0mm1s]

My issue is that he's spent the past two books toying with and undermining the idea of death in the saga, without killing a single major character in them. Calling him a killer after A Storm of Swords is logical, but two books later, I certainly wouldn't say that his reputation is intact.
Considering that Jon is most certainly coming back, Quentyn's death was probably the "biggest" of the past two books, and my reaction was more "well, that was a ####### waste of book space" than "OMG SHOCK". Other than relatively minor character deaths, let's see:

-The Mountain has supposedly become Gregorstein. Coming back in a different from.

-The Hound became a gravedigger. Fake death.

-Catelyn comes back as a stupid spirit of vengeance.

-Beric Dondarrion is Resurrection Man.

-Davos' death was obviously fake.

-We know Stannis isn't dead, despite Ramsay's letter.

-Brienne wasn't actually hanged, despite the tease.

-Tyrion survived a handful of "is-he-dead-oh-wait-no" chapter-ending cliffhangers.

-Theon was captured, rather than killed.

-Mance Rayder came back, since they burned Rattleshirt instead.

-Asha with a totally unbelievable chapter cliffhanger.

-"Look how edgy I am killing Jon! Nah, not really."

GRRM has said that he tries to avoid typical fantasy tropes like characters coming back to life, but he's not helping his case lately.

I think a lot of the toying around here is setup for the last two books. The only players I do think will make it to the end are Tyrion, Sansa, Varys, and Rickon.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

My issue is that he's spent the past two books toying with and undermining the idea of death in the saga, without killing a single major character in them. Calling him a killer after A Storm of Swords is logical, but two books later, I certainly wouldn't say that his reputation is intact.
Considering that Jon is most certainly coming back, Quentyn's death was probably the "biggest" of the past two books, and my reaction was more "well, that was a ####### waste of book space" than "OMG SHOCK". Other than relatively minor character deaths, let's see:

-The Mountain has supposedly become Gregorstein. Coming back in a different from.

-The Hound became a gravedigger. Fake death.

-Catelyn comes back as a stupid spirit of vengeance.

-Beric Dondarrion is Resurrection Man.

-Davos' death was obviously fake.

-We know Stannis isn't dead, despite Ramsay's letter.

-Brienne wasn't actually hanged, despite the tease.

-Tyrion survived a handful of "is-he-dead-oh-wait-no" chapter-ending cliffhangers.

-Theon was captured, rather than killed.

-Mance Rayder came back, since they burned Rattleshirt instead.

-Asha with a totally unbelievable chapter cliffhanger.

-"Look how edgy I am killing Jon! Nah, not really."

GRRM has said that he tries to avoid typical fantasy tropes like characters coming back to life, but he's not helping his case lately.

I think a lot of the toying around here is setup for the last two books. The only players I do think will make it to the end are Tyrion, Sansa, Varys, and Rickon.

Had the same thought. Once he decided to write in the five year gap by adding books four and five he had some big holes to fill and not a lot of obvious drama.

 

[flysack]

I can't think of a single person who thinks that Jon is actually dead.

You guys are forgetting that this is Martin. Which probably means Jon is dead.

If I had to bet on three characters that will live until the end, it's Jon, Arya, and Bran.

Dany I'm less certain about. I could see her dying at the end of the last book in some crazy dramatic self-sacrifice for the betterment of Westeros.

 

[sn0mm1s]

I can't think of a single person who thinks that Jon is actually dead.

You guys are forgetting that this is Martin. Which probably means Jon is dead.

If I had to bet on three characters that will live until the end, it's Jon, Arya, and Bran.

Dany I'm less certain about. I could see her dying at the end of the last book in some crazy dramatic self-sacrifice for the betterment of Westeros.

I sort of consider Bran dead already. I mean, he is just going to merge with a tree.

 

[EYLive]

I can't think of a single person who thinks that Jon is actually dead.

You guys are forgetting that this is Martin. Which probably means Jon is dead.

If I had to bet on three characters that will live until the end, it's Jon, Arya, and Bran.

Dany I'm less certain about. I could see her dying at the end of the last book in some crazy dramatic self-sacrifice for the betterment of Westeros.

I sort of consider Bran dead already. I mean, he is just going to merge with a tree.

I think of that as being alive forever.

 

[Abrantes]

My issue is that he's spent the past two books toying with and undermining the idea of death in the saga, without killing a single major character in them. Calling him a killer after A Storm of Swords is logical, but two books later, I certainly wouldn't say that his reputation is intact.
Considering that Jon is most certainly coming back, Quentyn's death was probably the "biggest" of the past two books, and my reaction was more "well, that was a ####### waste of book space" than "OMG SHOCK". Other than relatively minor character deaths, let's see:

-The Mountain has supposedly become Gregorstein. Coming back in a different from.

-The Hound became a gravedigger. Fake death.

-Catelyn comes back as a stupid spirit of vengeance.

-Beric Dondarrion is Resurrection Man.

-Davos' death was obviously fake.

-We know Stannis isn't dead, despite Ramsay's letter.

-Brienne wasn't actually hanged, despite the tease.

-Tyrion survived a handful of "is-he-dead-oh-wait-no" chapter-ending cliffhangers.

-Theon was captured, rather than killed.

-Mance Rayder came back, since they burned Rattleshirt instead.

-Asha with a totally unbelievable chapter cliffhanger.

-"Look how edgy I am killing Jon! Nah, not really."

GRRM has said that he tries to avoid typical fantasy tropes like characters coming back to life, but he's not helping his case lately.

I think a lot of the toying around here is setup for the last two books. The only players I do think will make it to the end are Tyrion, Sansa, Varys, and Rickon.

Had the same thought. Once he decided to write in the five year gap by adding books four and five he had some big holes to fill and not a lot of obvious drama.

It's a fair position to take, but as it stands, I see the series as three blood-drenched tomes followed by two volumes of relatively bloodless intrigue. A Storm of Swords was over 1700 pages ago. If the next book ever comes out and delivers some legitimate carnage, I'll revise my position. Not right now.

I'm sure there will be death, but this pervasive notion of GRRM as a giddy puppeteer who kills off any character we love seems ridiculous to me.

 

[Super King]

I can't think of a single person who thinks that Jon is actually dead.

You guys are forgetting that this is Martin. Which probably means Jon is dead.

If I had to bet on three characters that will live until the end, it's Jon, Arya, and Bran.Dany I'm less certain about. I could see her dying at the end of the last book in some crazy dramatic self-sacrifice for the betterment of Westeros.

I sort of consider Bran dead already. I mean, he is just going to merge with a tree.

a theory I've had about Bran is, what if he is the 3rd dragon? Not from Targ blood, but cuz he might be the most powerful warg to ever possibly exist. He's always had those flying dreams. What if that's just he seeing his future warging one of the dragons. Someone in the books mentioned that its impossible to warg a dragon. But if anyone can do it, it would Bran... Just saying

 

[KarmaPolice]

you guys are blowing my mind in here. I really need to re-read these from the beginning and pick up the little details. plowed through them too quickly I guess.

 

[dancer]

I can't think of a single person who thinks that Jon is actually dead.

You guys are forgetting that this is Martin. Which probably means Jon is dead.

If I had to bet on three characters that will live until the end, it's Jon, Arya, and Bran.Dany I'm less certain about. I could see her dying at the end of the last book in some crazy dramatic self-sacrifice for the betterment of Westeros.

I sort of consider Bran dead already. I mean, he is just going to merge with a tree.

a theory I've had about Bran is, what if he is the 3rd dragon? Not from Targ blood, but cuz he might be the most powerful warg to ever possibly exist. He's always had those flying dreams. What if that's just he seeing his future warging one of the dragons. Someone in the books mentioned that its impossible to warg a dragon. But if anyone can do it, it would Bran... Just saying

As for the 3 dragons, we can try tying that to the flowers from this episode as well - the blue representing Jon, the white Dany, the red Tyrion?

 

[flysack]

I can't think of a single person who thinks that Jon is actually dead.

You guys are forgetting that this is Martin. Which probably means Jon is dead.

If I had to bet on three characters that will live until the end, it's Jon, Arya, and Bran.Dany I'm less certain about. I could see her dying at the end of the last book in some crazy dramatic self-sacrifice for the betterment of Westeros.

I sort of consider Bran dead already. I mean, he is just going to merge with a tree.

a theory I've had about Bran is, what if he is the 3rd dragon? Not from Targ blood, but cuz he might be the most powerful warg to ever possibly exist. He's always had those flying dreams. What if that's just he seeing his future warging one of the dragons. Someone in the books mentioned that its impossible to warg a dragon. But if anyone can do it, it would Bran... Just saying

In a neato, perfect non-Martin world, Bran, Dany, Jon, Arya, Aegon and Tyrion form the Westeros Superfriends to defeat the Others.

Dany rides Drogo and leads as the Prince that was Promised

Jon rides Rhaegar the dragon.

Aegon rides the other dragon

Bran acts as spy and sage, using his network of godswoods to travel around time and space for information

Arya is the perfect assassin

Tyrion is the perfect diplomat to win the other houses over. Also, he'll become the richest man alive.

The series ends with Dany sitting on the Iron Throne with King Jon as her "consort" and the rest of the Superfriends become the new high council, except for Bran, he stays north of the wall as eternal vigil vs. the Others. Verys keeps his spot as spy in King's Landing, due to his allegiance to Dany all along.

The End.

(Which means none of that will happen. Not a chance.)

 

[flysack]

I can't think of a single person who thinks that Jon is actually dead.

You guys are forgetting that this is Martin. Which probably means Jon is dead.

If I had to bet on three characters that will live until the end, it's Jon, Arya, and Bran.Dany I'm less certain about. I could see her dying at the end of the last book in some crazy dramatic self-sacrifice for the betterment of Westeros.

I sort of consider Bran dead already. I mean, he is just going to merge with a tree.

a theory I've had about Bran is, what if he is the 3rd dragon? Not from Targ blood, but cuz he might be the most powerful warg to ever possibly exist. He's always had those flying dreams. What if that's just he seeing his future warging one of the dragons. Someone in the books mentioned that its impossible to warg a dragon. But if anyone can do it, it would Bran... Just saying

As for the 3 dragons, we can try tying that to the flowers from this episode as well - the blue representing Jon, the white Dany, the red Tyrion?

Tyrion riding a dragon? The thought of Dinkage riding a CGI lizard cracks me up.

I'm pretty sure you need Targaryen blood to ride one. I bet even that stupid horn the Iron Men found won't do the trick completely. But sniff of Targaryen blood seems to chill them out. Which means -

Jon

Dany

Aegon

 

[Instinctive]

I can't think of a single person who thinks that Jon is actually dead.

You guys are forgetting that this is Martin. Which probably means Jon is dead.

If I had to bet on three characters that will live until the end, it's Jon, Arya, and Bran.Dany I'm less certain about. I could see her dying at the end of the last book in some crazy dramatic self-sacrifice for the betterment of Westeros.

I sort of consider Bran dead already. I mean, he is just going to merge with a tree.

a theory I've had about Bran is, what if he is the 3rd dragon? Not from Targ blood, but cuz he might be the most powerful warg to ever possibly exist. He's always had those flying dreams. What if that's just he seeing his future warging one of the dragons. Someone in the books mentioned that its impossible to warg a dragon. But if anyone can do it, it would Bran... Just saying

As for the 3 dragons, we can try tying that to the flowers from this episode as well - the blue representing Jon, the white Dany, the red Tyrion?

Tyrion riding a dragon? The thought of Dinkage riding a CGI lizard cracks me up.

I'm pretty sure you need Targaryen blood to ride one. I bet even that stupid horn the Iron Men found won't do the trick completely. But sniff of Targaryen blood seems to chill them out. Which means -

Jon

Dany

Aegon

Tyrion could be a Targ, couldn't he? The whole Crazy Aegon + Tywin's wife + rape theory?

 

[dancer]

I can't think of a single person who thinks that Jon is actually dead.

You guys are forgetting that this is Martin. Which probably means Jon is dead.

If I had to bet on three characters that will live until the end, it's Jon, Arya, and Bran.Dany I'm less certain about. I could see her dying at the end of the last book in some crazy dramatic self-sacrifice for the betterment of Westeros.

I sort of consider Bran dead already. I mean, he is just going to merge with a tree.

a theory I've had about Bran is, what if he is the 3rd dragon? Not from Targ blood, but cuz he might be the most powerful warg to ever possibly exist. He's always had those flying dreams. What if that's just he seeing his future warging one of the dragons. Someone in the books mentioned that its impossible to warg a dragon. But if anyone can do it, it would Bran... Just saying

As for the 3 dragons, we can try tying that to the flowers from this episode as well - the blue representing Jon, the white Dany, the red Tyrion?

Tyrion riding a dragon? The thought of Dinkage riding a CGI lizard cracks me up.

I'm pretty sure you need Targaryen blood to ride one. I bet even that stupid horn the Iron Men found won't do the trick completely. But sniff of Targaryen blood seems to chill them out. Which means -

Jon

Dany

Aegon

How do you know Tyrion doesn't have Targ blood?

And Tyrion dreams of dragons.

And who are the 3 characters who all had their mother die while they were born? Jon, Dany and Tyrion.

 

[(HULK)]

I can't think of a single person who thinks that Jon is actually dead.

You guys are forgetting that this is Martin. Which probably means Jon is dead.

If I had to bet on three characters that will live until the end, it's Jon, Arya, and Bran.Dany I'm less certain about. I could see her dying at the end of the last book in some crazy dramatic self-sacrifice for the betterment of Westeros.

I sort of consider Bran dead already. I mean, he is just going to merge with a tree.

a theory I've had about Bran is, what if he is the 3rd dragon? Not from Targ blood, but cuz he might be the most powerful warg to ever possibly exist. He's always had those flying dreams. What if that's just he seeing his future warging one of the dragons. Someone in the books mentioned that its impossible to warg a dragon. But if anyone can do it, it would Bran... Just saying

As for the 3 dragons, we can try tying that to the flowers from this episode as well - the blue representing Jon, the white Dany, the red Tyrion?

Tyrion riding a dragon? The thought of Dinkage riding a CGI lizard cracks me up.I'm pretty sure you need Targaryen blood to ride one. I bet even that stupid horn the Iron Men found won't do the trick completely. But sniff of Targaryen blood seems to chill them out. Which means -

Jon

Dany

Aegon

Aegon is a fake dragon, it is known