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HBO - Song of Ice&Fire Series -Varsity Thread - no TV only whiners (3 Viewers)

Also, it did seem as if there were some light or something that brighten the screen and he was looking at something as he bled out.

I was waiting for his eyes to go white right before an instant blackening of the screen.

 
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The entire storyline of the North goes to #### without Jon. Unless they plan to open Season 6 with the White Walkers completely steamrolling Castle Black, thus ending any storyline there in one swoop, then he has to come back in some capacity.

 
He's dead. People need to accept this. Most people still in denial imo.
so yeah, maybe he was just Neds ******* after all, then who cares about all the R+L=J nonsense.
Its funny because Martin has talked about asking the show-runners who they thought Jon's parents were, and he signed off on the show because he liked their answer - maybe they just said "Ned and some whore"

Apparently the answer could come sooner than some might expect. During a recent interview with the New York Post, Martin was asked when he plans to say who actually birthed Jon Snow.

"I've not finished 'The Winds of Winter' yet, so maybe in that book," he says, "but if not then definitely in the next book, ['A Dream of Spring']."

There you have it, "Game of Thrones" fans: One more reason you can't wait for Martin to release "The Winds of Winter."

Fun fact: "Game of Thrones" show-runners David Benioff and D.B. Weiss told Martin their Jon Snow parents theory to secure themselves the job adapting his book series, but they haven't revealed their answer yet.
Of course, revealing it if Jon is really dead, is a bit anticlimactic

 
He's dead. People need to accept this. Most people still in denial imo.
so yeah, maybe he was just Neds ******* after all, then who cares about all the R+L=J nonsense.
Its funny because Martin has talked about asking the show-runners who they thought Jon's parents were, and he signed off on the show because he liked their answer - maybe they just said "Ned and some whore"

Apparently the answer could come sooner than some might expect. During a recent interview with the New York Post, Martin was asked when he plans to say who actually birthed Jon Snow.

"I've not finished 'The Winds of Winter' yet, so maybe in that book," he says, "but if not then definitely in the next book, ['A Dream of Spring']."

There you have it, "Game of Thrones" fans: One more reason you can't wait for Martin to release "The Winds of Winter."

Fun fact: "Game of Thrones" show-runners David Benioff and D.B. Weiss told Martin their Jon Snow parents theory to secure themselves the job adapting his book series, but they haven't revealed their answer yet.
Of course, revealing it if Jon is really dead, is a bit anticlimactic
yeah remember that guy who was on the nights watch? Jon Snow? yeah his mom was lyanna and his dad was a targaryen, Oh that's nice

 
I keep coming back to Ned/Howland Reed at the Tower of Joy and the idea that Ned said that Howland Reed saved his life against maybe the greatest swordsmen of his day (Arthur Dayne). To that, I think that to save Ned, Reed warged into Dayne....so, I don't think it'd be outside the realm of possibility for Jon to warg into Ghost and then with the help of Bran....(because his point in this whole story is muddled) come back in some sort of human capacity....be it in the body of another or his own body.

 
I'm in agreement with sebowski from up thread. I enjoy the books/show in spite of most of the magical/mystical stuff moreso than I enjoy them for it. The whole zombie thing is played out and raising people from the dead is a weak plot device. We're 5 books in and he hasn't really explained the mechanics of much of it either which makes it increasingly hard to buy into. Things like Robert Strong and Lady Stoneheart are pretty dumb.

 
I'm in agreement with sebowski from up thread. I enjoy the books/show in spite of most of the magical/mystical stuff moreso than I enjoy them for it. The whole zombie thing is played out and raising people from the dead is a weak plot device. We're 5 books in and he hasn't really explained the mechanics of much of it either which makes it increasingly hard to buy into. Things like Robert Strong and Lady Stoneheart are pretty dumb.
Agreed, I hate the Lady Stoneheart story line and don't miss it at all from the TV show. I also hope the Hound is really dead and not hanging out with a bunch monks.

 
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I don't read the books but I saw Martin is planning a twist that he said unfortunately cannot be done in the show now

Any ideas what this is about?

Sorry if already covered but I normally avoid this thread

 
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I don't read the books but I saw Martin is planning a twist that he said unfortunately cannot be done in the show now

Any ideas what this is about?

Sorry if already covered but I normally avoid this thread
I know this doesn't help you much, but there are now a lot of points of differentiation between the show and the books that he could be thinking of. We could probably put up near a hundred distinct possibilities and still not anticipate it. I like where things are now in the sense that neither the show watchers nor the book readers know what's coming next. The problem is the writing has fallen off in both the books and the show from the 1st 3 books/seasons. I'm hoping that turns around.

 
I don't read the books but I saw Martin is planning a twist that he said unfortunately cannot be done in the show now

Any ideas what this is about?

Sorry if already covered but I normally avoid this thread
I know this doesn't help you much, but there are now a lot of points of differentiation between the show and the books that he could be thinking of. We could probably put up near a hundred distinct possibilities and still not anticipate it. I like where things are now in the sense that neither the show watchers nor the book readers know what's coming next. The problem is the writing has fallen off in both the books and the show from the 1st 3 books/seasons. I'm hoping that turns around.
I agree and I'm hoping this is simply a case of the middle part being the weakest part of the story. I have my doubts though and think this ending will be more akin to Lost than Breaking Bad.

 
I don't read the books but I saw Martin is planning a twist that he said unfortunately cannot be done in the show now

Any ideas what this is about?

Sorry if already covered but I normally avoid this thread
I know this doesn't help you much, but there are now a lot of points of differentiation between the show and the books that he could be thinking of. We could probably put up near a hundred distinct possibilities and still not anticipate it. I like where things are now in the sense that neither the show watchers nor the book readers know what's coming next. The problem is the writing has fallen off in both the books and the show from the 1st 3 books/seasons. I'm hoping that turns around.
Probably involves stone heart. Shrug.

 
I don't read the books but I saw Martin is planning a twist that he said unfortunately cannot be done in the show now

Any ideas what this is about?

Sorry if already covered but I normally avoid this thread
Thats Martin realizing he is not going to see a bump in book sales unless he promises something more than the show...

 
I don't read the books but I saw Martin is planning a twist that he said unfortunately cannot be done in the show now

Any ideas what this is about?

Sorry if already covered but I normally avoid this thread
I know this doesn't help you much, but there are now a lot of points of differentiation between the show and the books that he could be thinking of. We could probably put up near a hundred distinct possibilities and still not anticipate it. I like where things are now in the sense that neither the show watchers nor the book readers know what's coming next. The problem is the writing has fallen off in both the books and the show from the 1st 3 books/seasons. I'm hoping that turns around.
Probably involves stone heart. Shrug.
Could be anything. The Dorne stuff is completely different. Maynce is still nominally alive in the books. I don't think Tyrion has met Danaerys yet in the books, Daario is dead in the books but still alive in the show, while Selmy is dead in the show but still alive in the books. Kevan's still alive and Varys is half way around the world in the show. Sansa is still at the Vale in the books. There's tons of stuff like that he could be talking about.

 
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I don't read the books but I saw Martin is planning a twist that he said unfortunately cannot be done in the show now

Any ideas what this is about?

Sorry if already covered but I normally avoid this thread
I know this doesn't help you much, but there are now a lot of points of differentiation between the show and the books that he could be thinking of. We could probably put up near a hundred distinct possibilities and still not anticipate it. I like where things are now in the sense that neither the show watchers nor the book readers know what's coming next. The problem is the writing has fallen off in both the books and the show from the 1st 3 books/seasons. I'm hoping that turns around.
Probably involves stone heart. Shrug.
Could be anything. The Dorne stuff is completely different. Maynce is still nominally alive in the books. I don't think Tyrion has met Danaerys yet in the books, Daario is dead in the books but still alive in the show, while Selmy is dead in the show but still alive in the books. Kevan's still alive and Varys is half way around the world in the show. Sansa is still at the Vale in the books. There's tons of stuff like that he could be talking about.
He did recently reference two of Loras' brothers who had a role to play in the book, but they are not part of the show.

Third and fourth are Willas and Garlan Tyrell, the older brothers to Loras and Margery Tyrell. "I didn’t just put them in for hoots and giggles, they have roles to play in the last two books, and they don’t exist in the show," Martin said
 
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When asked point-blank of Snow is firmly gone—as in, is actor Kit Harington released from his Thrones contract?—showrunner Dan Weiss told EW, “Dead is dead.”

“We would hope that after seeing the scene and the way it’s shot that the answer to that will be unambiguous in the minds of the people watching it,” Weiss explained. “It should be pretty clear what happens in by the time you’re done seeing that scene. It’s not an, ‘Oh what just happened scene?’”

Yet when we asked Martin about his A Song of Ice and Fire saga, the author gave a very different answer. “Oh, you think he’s dead, do you?” Martin teased us in an interview in 2011. “My readers should know better than to take anything as gospel.”

And then just a few months ago when we re-asked about the topic, Martin told us: “If there’s one thing we know in A Song of Ice and Fire is that death is not necessarily permanent.”
 
I don't read the books but I saw Martin is planning a twist that he said unfortunately cannot be done in the show now

Any ideas what this is about?

Sorry if already covered but I normally avoid this thread
I know this doesn't help you much, but there are now a lot of points of differentiation between the show and the books that he could be thinking of. We could probably put up near a hundred distinct possibilities and still not anticipate it. I like where things are now in the sense that neither the show watchers nor the book readers know what's coming next. The problem is the writing has fallen off in both the books and the show from the 1st 3 books/seasons. I'm hoping that turns around.
Probably involves stone heart. Shrug.
Could be anything. The Dorne stuff is completely different. Maynce is still nominally alive in the books. I don't think Tyrion has met Danaerys yet in the books, Daario is dead in the books but still alive in the show, while Selmy is dead in the show but still alive in the books. Kevan's still alive and Varys is half way around the world in the show. Sansa is still at the Vale in the books. There's tons of stuff like that he could be talking about.
He did recently reference two of Loras' brothers who had a role to play in the book, but they are not part of the show.

Third and fourth are Willas and Garlan Tyrell, the older brothers to Loras and Margery Tyrell. "I didnt just put them in for hoots and giggles, they have roles to play in the last two books, and they dont exist in the show," Martin said
Yeah but seems like he could easily introduce them...my guess is something with someone still alive in books...maybe JoJo Reed does some stuff

 
I don't read the books but I saw Martin is planning a twist that he said unfortunately cannot be done in the show now

Any ideas what this is about?

Sorry if already covered but I normally avoid this thread
I know this doesn't help you much, but there are now a lot of points of differentiation between the show and the books that he could be thinking of. We could probably put up near a hundred distinct possibilities and still not anticipate it. I like where things are now in the sense that neither the show watchers nor the book readers know what's coming next. The problem is the writing has fallen off in both the books and the show from the 1st 3 books/seasons. I'm hoping that turns around.
Probably involves stone heart. Shrug.
Could be anything. The Dorne stuff is completely different. Maynce is still nominally alive in the books. I don't think Tyrion has met Danaerys yet in the books, Daario is dead in the books but still alive in the show, while Selmy is dead in the show but still alive in the books. Kevan's still alive and Varys is half way around the world in the show. Sansa is still at the Vale in the books. There's tons of stuff like that he could be talking about.
He did recently reference two of Loras' brothers who had a role to play in the book, but they are not part of the show.

Third and fourth are Willas and Garlan Tyrell, the older brothers to Loras and Margery Tyrell. "I didnt just put them in for hoots and giggles, they have roles to play in the last two books, and they dont exist in the show," Martin said
Yeah but seems like he could easily introduce them...my guess is something with someone still alive in books...maybe JoJo Reed does some stuff
read my post again. The brothers are in the book, but not the show.
 
I don't read the books but I saw Martin is planning a twist that he said unfortunately cannot be done in the show now

Any ideas what this is about?

Sorry if already covered but I normally avoid this thread
I know this doesn't help you much, but there are now a lot of points of differentiation between the show and the books that he could be thinking of. We could probably put up near a hundred distinct possibilities and still not anticipate it. I like where things are now in the sense that neither the show watchers nor the book readers know what's coming next. The problem is the writing has fallen off in both the books and the show from the 1st 3 books/seasons. I'm hoping that turns around.
Probably involves stone heart. Shrug.
Could be anything. The Dorne stuff is completely different. Maynce is still nominally alive in the books. I don't think Tyrion has met Danaerys yet in the books, Daario is dead in the books but still alive in the show, while Selmy is dead in the show but still alive in the books. Kevan's still alive and Varys is half way around the world in the show. Sansa is still at the Vale in the books. There's tons of stuff like that he could be talking about.
He did recently reference two of Loras' brothers who had a role to play in the book, but they are not part of the show.

Third and fourth are Willas and Garlan Tyrell, the older brothers to Loras and Margery Tyrell. "I didnt just put them in for hoots and giggles, they have roles to play in the last two books, and they dont exist in the show," Martin said
Yeah but seems like he could easily introduce them...my guess is something with someone still alive in books...maybe JoJo Reed does some stuff
read my post again. The brothers are in the book, but not the show.
No I understood perfectly...they could find a way to introduce them if it was critical to the story

 
Third and fourth are Willas and Garlan Tyrell, the older brothers to Loras and Margery Tyrell. "I didn’t just put them in for hoots and giggles, they have roles to play in the last two books, and they don’t exist in the show," Martin said
Maybe we could get Tyrion involved with them somehow and he could ask them to clarify a position on something, and Tyrion could ask, "What you talking 'bout Willas?"

 
What's the ring that Dany drops in the dothraki sea when they surround her?
Wedding or engagement ring. A bread crumb that she was there.
I assumed it was something that would identify her as queen of Meereen.. Something she didn't want the Dothraki to see.
I had read somewhere it was a ring that guy from Meereen gave her but I have no idea. I would think her best chance is some of the Dothraki know who she is.
 
I don't read the books but I saw Martin is planning a twist that he said unfortunately cannot be done in the show now

Any ideas what this is about?

Sorry if already covered but I normally avoid this thread
I know this doesn't help you much, but there are now a lot of points of differentiation between the show and the books that he could be thinking of. We could probably put up near a hundred distinct possibilities and still not anticipate it. I like where things are now in the sense that neither the show watchers nor the book readers know what's coming next. The problem is the writing has fallen off in both the books and the show from the 1st 3 books/seasons. I'm hoping that turns around.
I agree and I'm hoping this is simply a case of the middle part being the weakest part of the story. I have my doubts though and think this ending will be more akin to Lost than Breaking Bad.
Basing my opinion on Martin's other books, I think it would be much more Breaking Bad than Lost - though both finales to those shows were pretty ridiculous. Assuming The Others are defeated, the victory might not be pyrrhic - but it will be close. It wouldn't surprise me to see The Wall fall, the dragons die, and all of the Great Houses of Westeros fall permanently (except for the Starks - who Jojen saw rising again in his Green Dreams).

I don't really think the writing has fallen off - but just the pace has slowed from the rapid conflict/war of the first 3 books. Also, readers aren't as invested with newer characters. They want to hear about the characters with POVs in the first book - not all the Johnny-come-latelies.

 
What's the ring that Dany drops in the dothraki sea when they surround her?
Wedding or engagement ring. A bread crumb that she was there.
I assumed it was something that would identify her as queen of Meereen.. Something she didn't want the Dothraki to see.
There is zero chance those Dothraki don't know who she is.
why? I think there are many Khals, not just one.

 
What's the ring that Dany drops in the dothraki sea when they surround her?
Wedding or engagement ring. A bread crumb that she was there.
I assumed it was something that would identify her as queen of Meereen.. Something she didn't want the Dothraki to see.
There is zero chance those Dothraki don't know who she is.
Well the book we know the Khal knows her. I assume this may be another who had left her long ago when Drogo fell.
 
What's the ring that Dany drops in the dothraki sea when they surround her?
Wedding or engagement ring. A bread crumb that she was there.
I assumed it was something that would identify her as queen of Meereen.. Something she didn't want the Dothraki to see.
There is zero chance those Dothraki don't know who she is.
why? I think there are many Khals, not just one.
Sure. And Drogo was famous amongst them. And Mereen is their neighbor. And she has mf-ing dragons.

They know who she is.

 
I think if Jon is alive or not or in what capacity will be resolved early on in the TV show next year because the Wall burn their dead. This could also give possible insight to the theory R+L=J. Imagine they go to burn Jon early next season and he doesnt burn ? Some targareans do (Viserys and Maester Aemon) and some dont (dany) That would be pretty frigging awesome if it went down that way

 
I think if Jon is alive or not or in what capacity will be resolved early on in the TV show next year because the Wall burn their dead. This could also give possible insight to the theory R+L=J. Imagine they go to burn Jon early next season and he doesnt burn ? Some targareans do (Viserys and Maester Aemon) and some dont (dany) That would be pretty frigging awesome if it went down that way
I'm really going to need Jim Ross to do the voiceover if Jon Snow springs to life on the pyre all Undertaker style.

"MY GAWD! MY GAWD! JON SNOW HAS RISEN AND THERE WILL BE HELL TO PAY!"

 
I think if Jon is alive or not or in what capacity will be resolved early on in the TV show next year because the Wall burn their dead. This could also give possible insight to the theory R+L=J. Imagine they go to burn Jon early next season and he doesnt burn ? Some targareans do (Viserys and Maester Aemon) and some dont (dany) That would be pretty frigging awesome if it went down that way
I'd think a dead targ would burn. Rereading the books knowing what happens down the road is a very different and gratifying experience.

Just reading Ned's first chapter is insightful. Why did she have a room full of roses? What caused her fever? What was such an important promise that she was relieved when Ned relented? Certainly not burying her at winterfell. It did not seem she was a hostage either.

 
I think if Jon is alive or not or in what capacity will be resolved early on in the TV show next year because the Wall burn their dead. This could also give possible insight to the theory R+L=J. Imagine they go to burn Jon early next season and he doesnt burn ? Some targareans do (Viserys and Maester Aemon) and some dont (dany) That would be pretty frigging awesome if it went down that way
I'm really going to need Jim Ross to do the voiceover if Jon Snow springs to life on the pyre all Undertaker style."MY GAWD! MY GAWD! JON SNOW HAS RISEN AND THERE WILL BE HELL TO PAY!"
BAH GAWD, KANG! JON SNOW IS ALIVE AND HE'S OPENING UP A CAN OF WHOOP-### ON THE NIGHTS WATCH! THE PHENOM LIVES, KANG!
 
I think if Jon is alive or not or in what capacity will be resolved early on in the TV show next year because the Wall burn their dead. This could also give possible insight to the theory R+L=J. Imagine they go to burn Jon early next season and he doesnt burn ? Some targareans do (Viserys and Maester Aemon) and some dont (dany) That would be pretty frigging awesome if it went down that way
I could see Melissandre having something to do with that scene. They had to of brought her back to the wall for something.

 
I think if Jon is alive or not or in what capacity will be resolved early on in the TV show next year because the Wall burn their dead. This could also give possible insight to the theory R+L=J. Imagine they go to burn Jon early next season and he doesnt burn ? Some targareans do (Viserys and Maester Aemon) and some dont (dany) That would be pretty frigging awesome if it went down that way
This is my working theory for the next 10 months. If they have him live it's either going to be he isn't quite dead and he is saved from actual death. Or he is dead and they go to burn the body and he rises from the ashes or simply doesn't burn and stands up in the fire.

Or he is really dead.

 
Yeah, but were the Dothraki pissed? They didn't seem to be.
I remember when reading this scene in the books, I was CONVINCED she was going to effectively become their khal.

Jorah had said "Princess, hear me. The Dothraki will not follow a suckling babe. Drogo's strength was what they bowed to, and only that."

They follow strength. When a monstrous black dragon appears and roasts a few of them (perhaps their Khal), and they see it listens to her, she will be the strength they follow.

 
Even if Targs are immune to fire, I'm pretty sure they're not immune to multiple stab wounds in the torso.
He's dead. That doesn't mean he stays that way (Beric didn't, multiple times in fact, and guess who "resurrected" him? Oh a priest of the Red God? You don't say...)

 
FTR All targs burn. Dany got burnt by Drogon.

The fact she didn't burn in that ceremonial fire was a miracle and a one-time event.
Huh
Granny: Do Targaryens become immune to fire once they "bond" to their dragons?

George_RR_Martin: Granny, thanks for asking that. It gives me a chance to clear up a common misconception. TARGARYENS ARE NOT IMMUNE TO FIRE! The birth of Dany's dragons was unique, magical, wonderous, a miracle. She is called The Unburnt because she walked into the flames and lived. But her brother sure as hell wasn't immune to that molten gold.

Revanshe: So she won't be able to do it again?

George_RR_Martin: Probably not.

 
I am not saying he will come alive in the fire , I was just saying if he didn't burn it would be pretty insightful.

 
FTR All targs burn. Dany got burnt by Drogon.

The fact she didn't burn in that ceremonial fire was a miracle and a one-time event.
Huh
Granny: Do Targaryens become immune to fire once they "bond" to their dragons?

George_RR_Martin: Granny, thanks for asking that. It gives me a chance to clear up a common misconception. TARGARYENS ARE NOT IMMUNE TO FIRE! The birth of Dany's dragons was unique, magical, wonderous, a miracle. She is called The Unburnt because she walked into the flames and lived. But her brother sure as hell wasn't immune to that molten gold.

Revanshe: So she won't be able to do it again?

George_RR_Martin: Probably not.
Jon Snow could be immune to fire miracle 2...Electric Bugaloo

 
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FTR All targs burn. Dany got burnt by Drogon.

The fact she didn't burn in that ceremonial fire was a miracle and a one-time event.
Huh
Granny: Do Targaryens become immune to fire once they "bond" to their dragons?

George_RR_Martin: Granny, thanks for asking that. It gives me a chance to clear up a common misconception. TARGARYENS ARE NOT IMMUNE TO FIRE! The birth of Dany's dragons was unique, magical, wonderous, a miracle. She is called The Unburnt because she walked into the flames and lived. But her brother sure as hell wasn't immune to that molten gold.

Revanshe: So she won't be able to do it again?

George_RR_Martin: Probably not.
What about the boiling hot water in episode 1 season 1?

 
FTR All targs burn. Dany got burnt by Drogon.

The fact she didn't burn in that ceremonial fire was a miracle and a one-time event.
Huh
Granny: Do Targaryens become immune to fire once they "bond" to their dragons?

George_RR_Martin: Granny, thanks for asking that. It gives me a chance to clear up a common misconception. TARGARYENS ARE NOT IMMUNE TO FIRE! The birth of Dany's dragons was unique, magical, wonderous, a miracle. She is called The Unburnt because she walked into the flames and lived. But her brother sure as hell wasn't immune to that molten gold.

Revanshe: So she won't be able to do it again?

George_RR_Martin: Probably not.
What about the boiling hot water in episode 1 season 1?
Also when the dragons burned the warlock,Dany was between the Dragons and the warlock. Looked like she was in the flames but maybe it was the angle of the shot.
 

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