HC Bill Belichick (1 Viewer)

[SeniorVBDStudent]

I will go to the mat saying BB is the best ever but right now I am very skeptical he has a solid plan in place that will do anything other than turn them into an average, flawed, irrelevant team...for some fans they are good with that because of all the success he brought them and BB being their binky but at some point something has to give here and what happens this season will go a long way towards what that is...if they win 10-11 games and Mac is a franchise QB than it is full speed ahead with BB but if they win 6-7 games without much of a young core it is just kicking the can down the road.

I agree with most of this, but would clarify my issue is not thinking you, Curran, the Boston media and an entitled fan base have the authority or credibility to make the bolded statement, and that its unfortunate that so many armchair quarterbacks presume that some other schmo can out-plan and out-execute BB in restoring the franchise to winning based on roster starvation in 2020 and a disasterous sophmore year for Jones last year. It simply isn't enough data to rationally conclude "somebody other than Bill could do a better job here". In my opinion.

I'm pretty sure Mr. Kraft can't wrestle Andy Reid, Sean McDermott or Nick Saban away from their current gigs and, relatively speaking, everyone else is trash.

 

[Boston]

I will go to the mat saying BB is the best ever but right now I am very skeptical he has a solid plan in place that will do anything other than turn them into an average, flawed, irrelevant team...for some fans they are good with that because of all the success he brought them and BB being their binky but at some point something has to give here and what happens this season will go a long way towards what that is...if they win 10-11 games and Mac is a franchise QB than it is full speed ahead with BB but if they win 6-7 games without much of a young core it is just kicking the can down the road.

I agree with most of this, but would clarify my issue is not thinking you, Curran, the Boston media and an entitled fan base have the authority or credibility to make the bolded statement, and that its unfortunate that so many armchair quarterbacks presume that some other schmo can out-plan and out-execute BB in restoring the franchise to winning based on roster starvation in 2020 and a disasterous sophmore year for Jones last year. It simply isn't enough data to rationally conclude "somebody other than Bill could do a better job here". In my opinion.

I'm pretty sure Mr. Kraft can't wrestle Andy Reid, Sean McDermott or Nick Saban away from their current gigs and, relatively speaking, everyone else is trash.

I would counter that BB could roll out the Everett High team next year and the BB fanboys would still think BB could do no wrong.

 

[Anarchy99]

Let's play this out and say BB is out of the picture and Mayo takes over. How many players has he negotiated with? How many draft picks has he made? How is he at piecing together contracts and making cap numbers work? Since people are suggesting BB does a lousy job with the offense, why would a defensive coach be any better on working on the offense? How about situational coaching, developing players, game planning, special teams, dealing with the media, getting buy in from upper management or the players, recruiting free agents, getting on the refs, scouting college players, managing the clock, etc., etc., etc. I understand that that's life as a rookie head coach in the NFL, but Bill has been the king of the kingdom for a long time, and there really hasn't been much division of labor or decision-making. I think moving on from BB will be more of a challenge compared to some teams that burn through coaches in short order.

We don't know what we don't know, but set-in-his-ways BB has 50 years of experience and has dealt with just about every situation out there. IMO, replacing BB with a rookie head coach in the AFCE could very easily drop NE to 3-4 wins for a couple of seasons (especially if Mac isn't their guy). Mayo (or another new head coach) could certainly make changes to the roster or draft the next Patrick Mahomes, so we can't rule out making a positive impact. But I am not sure the Kraft's really want a team that is regularly drafting at the top of the draft. If fans and the media are complaining now about the team's record and not winning, what will they do if they go back to being the Aints?

 

[Boston]

Let's play this out and say BB is out of the picture and Mayo takes over. How many players has he negotiated with? How many draft picks has he made? How is he at piecing together contracts and making cap numbers work? Since people are suggesting BB does a lousy job with the offense, why would a defensive coach be any better on working on the offense? How about situational coaching, developing players, game planning, special teams, dealing with the media, getting buy in from upper management or the players, recruiting free agents, getting on the refs, scouting college players, managing the clock, etc., etc., etc. I understand that that's life as a rookie head coach in the NFL, but Bill has been the king of the kingdom for a long time, and there really hasn't been much division of labor or decision-making. I think moving on from BB will be more of a challenge compared to some teams that burn through coaches in short order.

We don't know what we don't know, but set-in-his-ways BB has 50 years of experience and has dealt with just about every situation out there. IMO, replacing BB with a rookie head coach in the AFCE could very easily drop NE to 3-4 wins for a couple of seasons (especially if Mac isn't their guy). Mayo (or another new head coach) could certainly make changes to the roster or draft the next Patrick Mahomes, so we can't rule out making a positive impact. But I am not sure the Kraft's really want a team that is regularly drafting at the top of the draft. If fans and the media are complaining now about the team's record and not winning, what will they do if they go back to being the Aints?

At no point have I seen any mention of Mayo being the GM...only as an HC so much of what you just wrote is irrelevant...for the part that is relevant how is this any different than any other hire of a first year HC in the NFL and how are you certain he would not be a good Coach? Overall and you really seem to have difficulty with this concept there are two BB's...BB the HC and BB the GM...most of the issues people have is with BB the GM but anyone who thinks this team has been as disciplined as they used to be is not watching them play...unfortunately for the Pats you cannot just keep BB the HC and get a new GM...you can't have one without the other.

 

[Tau837]

As a fan without a stake (Chargers fan), IMO some of the fans being the most critical of Belichick are being unreasonable to delusional.

Ask yourselves, if BB retires after this season, who do you expect to be the Patriots leadership in both front office and coaching staff. Are you truly confident they will do better than BB? I don't see how anyone could reasonably say yes to that.

Two cents.

 

[Boston]

As a fan without a stake (Chargers fan), IMO some of the fans being the most critical of Belichick are being unreasonable to delusional.

Ask yourselves, if BB retires after this season, who do you expect to be the Patriots leadership in both front office and coaching staff. Are you truly confident they will do better than BB? I don't see how anyone could reasonably say yes to that.

Two cents.

Ok...let's play...what has gone on post-Brady that you cannot replace? We are not talking the BB that was the absolute best in the business for 20 years (with Brady) which he was...we are talking the current form...are you saying whoever replaces BB won't be able to go 25-26 over a 3-year period and put together an average at best roster and hire an OC like Matt Patricia and is also not predicted to make the playoffs in year 4 post Brady with Vegas having them at 7.5 wins this year...what is going on now that you feel is delusional to be critical of?

 

[Tau837]

As a fan without a stake (Chargers fan), IMO some of the fans being the most critical of Belichick are being unreasonable to delusional.

Ask yourselves, if BB retires after this season, who do you expect to be the Patriots leadership in both front office and coaching staff. Are you truly confident they will do better than BB? I don't see how anyone could reasonably say yes to that.

Two cents.

Ok...let's play...what has gone on post-Brady that you cannot replace? We are not talking the BB that was the absolute best in the business for 20 years (with Brady) which he was...we are talking the current form...are you saying whoever replaces BB won't be able to go 25-26 over a 3-year period and put together an average at best roster and hire an OC like Matt Patricia and is also not predicted to make the playoffs in year 4 post Brady with Vegas having them at 7.5 wins this year...what is going on now that you feel is delusional to be critical of?

OK, let's play. Who are your replacements who will do better in 2024 and beyond?

Also, your reference to hiring Patricia as OC is a red herring. Yes, that happened. Yes, that was a massive mistake. No, that won't ever happen again with or without Belichick. So it is irrelevant to this discussion.

 

[Boston]

As a fan without a stake (Chargers fan), IMO some of the fans being the most critical of Belichick are being unreasonable to delusional.

Ask yourselves, if BB retires after this season, who do you expect to be the Patriots leadership in both front office and coaching staff. Are you truly confident they will do better than BB? I don't see how anyone could reasonably say yes to that.

Two cents.

Ok...let's play...what has gone on post-Brady that you cannot replace? We are not talking the BB that was the absolute best in the business for 20 years (with Brady) which he was...we are talking the current form...are you saying whoever replaces BB won't be able to go 25-26 over a 3-year period and put together an average at best roster and hire an OC like Matt Patricia and is also not predicted to make the playoffs in year 4 post Brady with Vegas having them at 7.5 wins this year...what is going on now that you feel is delusional to be critical of?

OK, let's play. Who are your replacements who will do better in 2024 and beyond?

Also, your reference to hiring Patricia as OC is a red herring. Yes, that happened. Yes, that was a massive mistake. No, that won't ever happen again with or without Belichick. So it is irrelevant to this discussion.

BS...let's make one of the all-time blunders that only happened 12 months ago irrelevant...why is that irrelevant? If BB goes Mayo is most likely going to be the HC...it is not 100% but right now it is set-up that way...will he be a good HC? I don't know because he will be a first-time HC but I do know he is extremely well respected and is thought highly enough that the Pats came up with a contract that stopped him from continuing to interview for HC positions...if it is Mayo the question then becomes who the next GM is because that is ultimately where BB is failing...who it will be I don't know but there has been nothing going on in that area the past 3.5 years that is irreplaceable.

Ultimately, I would love BB to rebuild the Pats and go out on his own terms but right now BB the GM is failing BB the HC and BB the GM seems to be intent on following a specific blueprint that is very suspect and does not seem to have any intentions of changing it.

 

[elguapo07]

I will go to the mat saying BB is the best ever but right now I am very skeptical he has a solid plan in place that will do anything other than turn them into an average, flawed, irrelevant team...for some fans they are good with that because of all the success he brought them and BB being their binky but at some point something has to give here and what happens this season will go a long way towards what that is...if they win 10-11 games and Mac is a franchise QB than it is full speed ahead with BB but if they win 6-7 games without much of a young core it is just kicking the can down the road.

I agree with most of this, but would clarify my issue is not thinking you, Curran, the Boston media and an entitled fan base have the authority or credibility to make the bolded statement, and that its unfortunate that so many armchair quarterbacks presume that some other schmo can out-plan and out-execute BB in restoring the franchise to winning based on roster starvation in 2020 and a disasterous sophmore year for Jones last year. It simply isn't enough data to rationally conclude "somebody other than Bill could do a better job here". In my opinion.

I'm pretty sure Mr. Kraft can't wrestle Andy Reid, Sean McDermott or Nick Saban away from their current gigs and, relatively speaking, everyone else is trash.

I would counter that BB could roll out the Everett High team next year and the BB fanboys would still think BB could do no wrong.

Xaverian the team to beat. The have the old Everett High HC DiBiaso.

 

[Anarchy99]

I heard some discussion today about the Patricia / Judge tandem and strategy from last year. There is a narrative out there that BOB was the plan for this year after he was not available last year. Rather than bring in someone else as OC last year, the theory holds, BB thought it made sense to try those two as a bridge to get to BOB. The logic behind that was it would not make sense to bring in an outsider to have to learn the Patriots playbook / system and then move on from him in a year. I have no idea if this was a wild guess or if this would be more informed speculation. I didn’t hear the full conversation.

That’s one of the issues some people have with BB. Maybe they were better off bringing in someone that had a different system and / or good add some wrinkles the old system doesn’t have. But I’m not sure how many legit OC’s want to be told what to run instead of doing things their way.

 

[Boston]

I will go to the mat saying BB is the best ever but right now I am very skeptical he has a solid plan in place that will do anything other than turn them into an average, flawed, irrelevant team...for some fans they are good with that because of all the success he brought them and BB being their binky but at some point something has to give here and what happens this season will go a long way towards what that is...if they win 10-11 games and Mac is a franchise QB than it is full speed ahead with BB but if they win 6-7 games without much of a young core it is just kicking the can down the road.

I agree with most of this, but would clarify my issue is not thinking you, Curran, the Boston media and an entitled fan base have the authority or credibility to make the bolded statement, and that its unfortunate that so many armchair quarterbacks presume that some other schmo can out-plan and out-execute BB in restoring the franchise to winning based on roster starvation in 2020 and a disasterous sophmore year for Jones last year. It simply isn't enough data to rationally conclude "somebody other than Bill could do a better job here". In my opinion.

I'm pretty sure Mr. Kraft can't wrestle Andy Reid, Sean McDermott or Nick Saban away from their current gigs and, relatively speaking, everyone else is trash.

I would counter that BB could roll out the Everett High team next year and the BB fanboys would still think BB could do no wrong.

Xaverian the team to beat. The have the old Everett High HC DiBiaso.

That is actually CM...Dibasio now doesn't have to pretend he is not recruiting.

 

[elguapo07]

I will go to the mat saying BB is the best ever but right now I am very skeptical he has a solid plan in place that will do anything other than turn them into an average, flawed, irrelevant team...for some fans they are good with that because of all the success he brought them and BB being their binky but at some point something has to give here and what happens this season will go a long way towards what that is...if they win 10-11 games and Mac is a franchise QB than it is full speed ahead with BB but if they win 6-7 games without much of a young core it is just kicking the can down the road.

I agree with most of this, but would clarify my issue is not thinking you, Curran, the Boston media and an entitled fan base have the authority or credibility to make the bolded statement, and that its unfortunate that so many armchair quarterbacks presume that some other schmo can out-plan and out-execute BB in restoring the franchise to winning based on roster starvation in 2020 and a disasterous sophmore year for Jones last year. It simply isn't enough data to rationally conclude "somebody other than Bill could do a better job here". In my opinion.

I'm pretty sure Mr. Kraft can't wrestle Andy Reid, Sean McDermott or Nick Saban away from their current gigs and, relatively speaking, everyone else is trash.

I would counter that BB could roll out the Everett High team next year and the BB fanboys would still think BB could do no wrong.

Xaverian the team to beat. The have the old Everett High HC DiBiaso.

That is actually CM...Dibasio now doesn't have to pretend he is not recruiting.

Correct, that is who I meant. Can now recruit all around greater Boston instead of just the inner burbs.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

I will go to the mat saying BB is the best ever but right now I am very skeptical he has a solid plan in place that will do anything other than turn them into an average, flawed, irrelevant team...for some fans they are good with that because of all the success he brought them and BB being their binky but at some point something has to give here and what happens this season will go a long way towards what that is...if they win 10-11 games and Mac is a franchise QB than it is full speed ahead with BB but if they win 6-7 games without much of a young core it is just kicking the can down the road.

I agree with most of this, but would clarify my issue is not thinking you, Curran, the Boston media and an entitled fan base have the authority or credibility to make the bolded statement, and that its unfortunate that so many armchair quarterbacks presume that some other schmo can out-plan and out-execute BB in restoring the franchise to winning based on roster starvation in 2020 and a disasterous sophmore year for Jones last year. It simply isn't enough data to rationally conclude "somebody other than Bill could do a better job here". In my opinion.

I'm pretty sure Mr. Kraft can't wrestle Andy Reid, Sean McDermott or Nick Saban away from their current gigs and, relatively speaking, everyone else is trash.

I would counter that BB could roll out the Everett High team next year and the BB fanboys would still think BB could do no wrong.

Well maybe this helps highlight where we disagree....my contention is NOT that BB can do no wrong going forward; my contention is the events of the last 3 seasons are insufficient to warrant abandoning loyalty and belief in his unique qualifications to be the single best person for the job. Now if NE fails to win 7 games this year, I think a discussion is in order.

Also, I don't accept the idea that the Krafts would not force BB to give up GM responsibilities if NE goes nowhere in 2023 / 2024.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

I heard some discussion today about the Patricia / Judge tandem and strategy from last year. There is a narrative out there that BOB was the plan for this year after he was not available last year. Rather than bring in someone else as OC last year, the theory holds, BB thought it made sense to try those two as a bridge to get to BOB. The logic behind that was it would not make sense to bring in an outsider to have to learn the Patriots playbook / system and then move on from him in a year. I have no idea if this was a wild guess or if this would be more informed speculation. I didn’t hear the full conversation.

That’s one of the issues some people have with BB. Maybe they were better off bringing in someone that had a different system and / or good add some wrinkles the old system doesn’t have. But I’m not sure how many legit OC’s want to be told what to run instead of doing things their way.

In that kind of scenario, I would think that a better plan would have been to bring in a minority candidate or at a minimum a non-retread to try to create a spark. Maybe BB's loyalty led him to the bad decision he made (Patricia/Judge).

 

[Boston]

I will go to the mat saying BB is the best ever but right now I am very skeptical he has a solid plan in place that will do anything other than turn them into an average, flawed, irrelevant team...for some fans they are good with that because of all the success he brought them and BB being their binky but at some point something has to give here and what happens this season will go a long way towards what that is...if they win 10-11 games and Mac is a franchise QB than it is full speed ahead with BB but if they win 6-7 games without much of a young core it is just kicking the can down the road.

I agree with most of this, but would clarify my issue is not thinking you, Curran, the Boston media and an entitled fan base have the authority or credibility to make the bolded statement, and that its unfortunate that so many armchair quarterbacks presume that some other schmo can out-plan and out-execute BB in restoring the franchise to winning based on roster starvation in 2020 and a disasterous sophmore year for Jones last year. It simply isn't enough data to rationally conclude "somebody other than Bill could do a better job here". In my opinion.

I'm pretty sure Mr. Kraft can't wrestle Andy Reid, Sean McDermott or Nick Saban away from their current gigs and, relatively speaking, everyone else is trash.

I would counter that BB could roll out the Everett High team next year and the BB fanboys would still think BB could do no wrong.

Well maybe this helps highlight where we disagree....my contention is NOT that BB can do no wrong going forward; my contention is the events of the last 3 seasons are insufficient to warrant abandoning loyalty and belief in his unique qualifications to be the single best person for the job. Now if NE fails to win 7 games this year, I think a discussion is in order.

Also, I don't accept the idea that the Krafts would not force BB to give up GM responsibilities if NE goes nowhere in 2023 / 2024.

Which is what I and some others are saying and basically what "hot seat" means (with the exception that you think 3 years is not sufficient which is usually the case in the NFL...BB is actually getting a longer leash as he should because he earned it)...if he has another bad year than that maybe it...if the Pats win 10-11 games, Mac develops and it looks like he has secured a legit young core that can be a foundation for success the BB era continues...all about results and not history now.

As for your last point do you seriously believe BB would continue as HC if forced to give up running the operation...if so, you may be the first person I have heard that believes scenario is a possibility and Bill would accept that.

 

[Chaka]

Bill Belichick the GM hasn't done Bill Belichick the HC any favors.

I know Mayo is the in-house candidate to replace BB but is there an in-house candidate for GM? They have lost a ton of executives over the years, have they been adequately replaced or has BB the GM quietly consolidated their responsibilities?

 

[Chaka]

There are two problems relating to Kraft and any decisions about retaining BB. 1) Kraft seems to love Mayo and doesn't want to lose him during future hiring cycles 2) BB the GM has never been great and last year he was a disaster. Is there any scenario where BB cedes that authority?

Oh, and BB is 71, not a death sentence by any measure (see: Carroll, Pete) but we all lose our fastball eventually. Does Kraft wait until BB voluntarily decides to hang it up and likely lose Mayo during that process?

 

[Boston]

Bill Belichick the GM hasn't done Bill Belichick the HC any favors.

I know Mayo is the in-house candidate to replace BB but is there an in-house candidate for GM? They have lost a ton of executives over the years, have they been adequately replaced or has BB the GM quietly consolidated their responsibilities?

I don't think he has another son, so I don't think there is an in-house candidate...as far as what I know in a perfect world Mayo takes over when BB the HC hangs them up but BB the GM stays on and continues to run the operation but that only happens if BB calls the shots...I have always been under the impression BB would continue on in that role post-coaching...as for a BB the GM replacement if things head south I'm sure the Krafts have someone in mind as there are a lot of bodies that have come and gone the past 20+ years but you don't hear any rumors of one that stands above the rest.

 

[Chaka]

Bill Belichick the GM hasn't done Bill Belichick the HC any favors.

I know Mayo is the in-house candidate to replace BB but is there an in-house candidate for GM? They have lost a ton of executives over the years, have they been adequately replaced or has BB the GM quietly consolidated their responsibilities?

I don't think he has another son, so I don't think there is an in-house candidate...as far as what I know in a perfect world Mayo takes over when BB the HC hangs them up but BB the GM stays on and continues to run the operation but that only happens if BB calls the shots...I have always been under the impression BB would continue on in that role post-coaching...as for a BB the GM replacement if things head south I'm sure the Krafts have someone in mind as there are a lot of bodies that have come and gone the past 20+ years but you don't hear any rumors of one that stands above the rest.

Oof...keeping BB the GM, and having him in house in general, sounds like a terrible outcome for Mayo.

 

[Boston]

There are two problems relating to Kraft and any decisions about retaining BB. 1) Kraft seems to love Mayo and doesn't want to lose him during future hiring cycles 2) BB the GM has never been great and last year he was a disaster. Is there any scenario where BB cedes that authority?

Oh, and BB is 71, not a death sentence by any measure (see: Carroll, Pete) but we all lose our fastball eventually. Does Kraft wait until BB voluntarily decides to hang it up and likely lose Mayo during that process?

The Don Shula record hangs over this whole thing...it appears to be very important to BB (as it should be) and the Krafts would really like him to break it as a Patriot (as they should)...right now he is 18 behind Shula (and there was a lot of animosity between BB and Shula) so you can really look at this as a math equation...the math being what happens if the Pats win 6-7 games this year so it may take until 2025 from him to break it...are the Krafts willing to sacrifice two more years if the Pats are stuck in neutral and BB unwilling to change just so BB can break that record as a Patriot (my guess is no)...it will be absolutely fascinating if they win 8 games because now the math gets real dicey...if that is the case (and it is very possible with the schedule they have) I think it matters what the 8 games look like...is it 8 games with Mac developing into a franchise QB and youngsters like Gonzalez, Strange, White, Mapu and Thornton looking like future studs or is it 8 games that look like last year's team...an 8 win year for the Pats has the possibility to look really good or really bad this year.

 

[Chaka]

...an 8 win year for the Pats has the possibility to look really good or really bad this year.

IMO it's going to take a ton of mental gymnastics to spin an 8 win season into a positive.

I not sure if BB has a playoff mandate from Kraft but missing the playoffs with 10 wins looks a lot different than missing the playoffs with 8 wins.

 

[Boston]

...an 8 win year for the Pats has the possibility to look really good or really bad this year.

IMO it's going to take a ton of mental gymnastics to spin an 8 win season into a positive.

I not sure if BB has a playoff mandate from Kraft but missing the playoffs with 10 wins looks a lot different than missing the playoffs with 8 wins.

I don't disagree big picture but since it is BB it is just different...I am not high on them at all but again if it is 8 wins and it is a team where the young core looks legit and they turn into a team that no one wants to play by the end of the year and looks ready to go to another level in 2024 he will get a pass...another interesting dynamic to this is they have a boatload of cap space next offseason and who do you want to spend it...BB who just pissed away a similar situation 2 years ago or a new regime to give them a jump-start to a new era.

 

[BobbyLayne]

There are two problems relating to Kraft and any decisions about retaining BB. 1) Kraft seems to love Mayo and doesn't want to lose him during future hiring cycles 2) BB the GM has never been great and last year he was a disaster. Is there any scenario where BB cedes that authority?

Oh, and BB is 71, not a death sentence by any measure (see: Carroll, Pete) but we all lose our fastball eventually. Does Kraft wait until BB voluntarily decides to hang it up and likely lose Mayo during that process?

The Don Shula record hangs over this whole thing...it appears to be very important to BB (as it should be) and the Krafts would really like him to break it as a Patriot (as they should)...right now he is 18 behind Shula (and there was a lot of animosity between BB and Shula) so you can really look at this as a math equation...the math being what happens if the Pats win 6-7 games this year so it may take until 2025 from him to break it...are the Krafts willing to sacrifice two more years if the Pats are stuck in neutral and BB unwilling to change just so BB can break that record as a Patriot (my guess is no)...it will be absolutely fascinating if they win 8 games because now the math gets real dicey...if that is the case (and it is very possible with the schedule they have) I think it matters what the 8 games look like...is it 8 games with Mac developing into a franchise QB and youngsters like Gonzalez, Strange, White, Mapu and Thornton looking like future studs or is it 8 games that look like last year's team...an 8 win year for the Pats has the possibility to look really good or really bad this year.

It's a bit irrational bc passing Shula doesn't change his legacy one bit IMO. Dude has already passed Halas and Lombardi for most titles won.

Tom Landry was fired. Don Shula quit because he was going to be stripped of power.

BB should be allowed to chose when he's done, but good luck trying to predict what a billionaire owner will decide.

 

[Anarchy99]

After a flurry of posts from other people . . .

- IMO, the best info about BB comes from him directly on his radio interviews. Unlike his press conferences, he has a ton to say and is very personable. Over the past couple of years, he has indicated many times he loves coaching now more than ever, he has nothing else he enjoys doing, and he is closer to his players now than ever before. He indicated he is a long way away from wanting to retire. I take him at his word to mean he has no interest in stepping away.

- The best info about Kraft involving BB comes from Kraft directly. There have been times when local sports guys got interviews with Kraft (again, not at scheduled press conferences or league meetings) where Robert is much more open and relaxed. In those settings, he has indicated he has no problem with BB, they have a great relationship, they don't always agree on everything, but he would be honored to have Bill coach as many games as he wants for NE as he helped put the Patriots organization on the map. But since those are on local stations and not picked up by national outlets and not on Twitter, no one sees them. I don't see that as an owner that looking to jettison BB.

- BB the head coach and GM are a package deal. I don't see any scenario where Bill is only the head coach and someone else takes over as GM (he wouldn't agree to that). Nor do I see a situation where he would have any interest in being the GM and not the head coach. He loves coaching. I don't think he loves the front office part of it. But I don't think after 50 years in football that he would take orders from anyone else. Not going to happen.

- I honestly don't think replacing BB is much of a talking point inside the organization. I think it's getting fueled by the media in an attempt to get fans to latch on to the FIRE BILL campaign. Fans and reporters apparently think it's Boston's privilege to continue to be in the SB every other season . . . and since they aren't doing that anymore, off with Bill's head!

- There has been a lot of speculation about BB's contract. Some folks think he has a lifetime contract in that it gets renewed automatically every so many years. Media people have guessed that he has 2-3 years left on his current deal, which as HC and GM could be in the $30M a year range. There may be other penalties or expensive bail out clauses, so it could cost Kraft $60M+ to move on from Bill if it ever got to that point.

- I'm still not convinced that brining in a different HC and GM (which is what would have to happen) would make the team any better. Despite what some people think, the team has some young talent with a lot of potential. They currently don't have the GOAT or a HOF QB. How many teams find themselves scrambling to find a legit QB? A lot. How many teams have moved on from HOF QBs and immediately been just as good? Not many.

- Until proven otherwise, I still think the 2023 team will be better than many of the naysayers will try to depict. They still have a very good defense, and with a Top 3 offensive coordinator (so says PFF), the offense should be back to the way it was in 2021 (or better). They dramatically improved the coaching staff, practices are back to running smoothly and seemlessly, the players seem to have bought in, and it's nowhere near the disaster it was last season.

- Last year's teams uncharacteristically had fatal flaws for really dumb reasons. Too many penalties. Turning the ball over at the worst times. Giving up game changing plays on special teams. Essentially being undisciplined. Offensively, BOB won't stand for that. He will get in people's grills if they do that. I don't expect anywhere near the amount of stupid penalties this season (but I suppose it could still be an issue).

- Wins and losses aside, it's very possible the team looks and plays a lot better yet wins 7 games. The offense could be more productive and score a lot more points. Mac Jones could make huge strides. The defense could still be strong but give up their fair share of points. Their schedule is no joke. They could be competitive week to week . . . and not win a lot of close games.

- Blending all of that together, as many other Patriots beat guys and reporters seem to agree, it would take a colossal implosion for Bill to get relieved of his command. The absolute worst case scenario is NE moves on from BB before he is ready to retire, he coaches somewhere else, and he makes it his life's goal to win another ring on another franchise. If NE fell to pieces while BB won someplace else (a la what Brady did), the Kraft's would have egg on their faces.

- Unless and until Robert Kraft says that the team needs to accomplish X or BB is gone (and then follows through), I will take all of this with a grain of salt. And for the people that say BB was nothing without TB or BB has been a terrible GM, shame on you. NE won their first three titles with Brady being mostly a game manager led by BB's defense. They stayed competitive for many years having vastly different rosters and contributors. They won in 2018 by way of smoke and mirrors . . . talent wise they probably shouldn't even have been a playoff team . . . BB outcoached teams in the playoffs to win that year. Had Brady ended up on a terrible team like CLE, ARI, or CIN (or as a backup to someone like Peyton, Warner, or Favre), he may not ever have had a chance to even play in a SB and could have been selling insurance instead. Sure, TB made up for a lot on his own, but the team had to be in position to win every year, and Tom didn't play defense or special teams. It's still a team sport that requires coaching, game planning (and to the haters we can throw in cheating) to win.

 

[Boston]

Here is some current PFF info:

QB-Mac is 21 out of 32 (about right with the ability to go up with BOB's help)

RB-Stevenson is 16 out of 32 (I think this is too low)

WR- none in top 32 (correct)

TE-none in the 15 they ranked (Henry could have sneaked in there)

T-none in top 32 (it is almost malpractice how the Pats are treating this position right now...has a chance to cost them the season)

G-Onewu is 6 and Strange is 30 out of 32 (interior line is a strength...hopefully they extend Onewu and Strange takes another step forward...interesting that they used 3 draft picks on the interior)

C-Andrews is 6 out of 32 (always reliable)

Edge-Judon is 18 and Uche 23 out of 32 (if they are going to make a playoff run these two need to put up legit sack #'s)

Interior D Line-Barmore is 22 out of 32 (one of the 5 most important players on this team...real important that he becomes a consistent force as last year was dissapointing)

Linebacker-Bentley is 16 out of 32 (most surprising grade for me...reliable player but more suited for old school game IMO)

Cornerback-Jonathan Jones is 32 out of 32 (solid player...very important that Gonzalez is in the top 20 of this list next year...he is a key player this year)

Safety-Duggar is 21 out of 32 (good player that needs to get to another level this year with McCourty retired)

 

[Anarchy99]

T-none in top 32 (it is almost malpractice how the Pats are treating this position right now...has a chance to cost them the season)

Edge-Judon is 18 and Uche 23 out of 32 (if they are going to make a playoff run these two need to put up legit sack #'s)

For Item #1: When teams have multiple holes to fill, they can't fill all of them at once. If they drafted an OT first (which by that point would have been the 4th or 5th tackle drafted), then people would say they didn't draft a CB. Plenty of folks wanted them to take a WR first. There is no doubt that tackle is now their biggest reason for concern. They have bodies . . . it remains to be seen if they can get anything out of them (I have my doubts). Brown has shown he can play well (he just doesn't seem like he is into playing well these days) and Onwenu could be moved to tackle like he was before. Everyone else at tackle is a hope and a prayer.

For Item #2: For some reason, PFF doesn't really score sacks highly in their evaluation of defenders. They care about other things more for some reason. NE ranked 3rd in sacks last season (only 1 sack out of 2nd).

The defense allowed the 4th fewest touchdowns last year (2 TD out of the top spot). That's sort of what I have been saying all along. Even without having game changing, top tier talent, the big picture for things is usually a lot better than the breakdown of the talent level of the individual players. In 2021, the offense scored 48 TD. Last year, that dropped to 31. With BOB on board, I don't see why they won't get back to that total again this year.

I don't think the defense got worse, and I definitely think the offense got better. It all comes down to Mac Jones. Either he plays better, or they will find another QB for next year. Not really that complicated.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

As for your last point do you seriously believe BB would continue as HC if forced to give up running the operation...if so, you may be the first person I have heard that believes scenario is a possibility and Bill would accept that.

I can see why you would think that...given the history with the Browns and Jets and Parcells etc., I'm just pre-supposing that if the record stays bad and he loves coaching he would be willing to throw Kraft a bone. In other words, you may be right but I'm not convinced its a given. The future is not guaranteed.

 

[Boston]

T-none in top 32 (it is almost malpractice how the Pats are treating this position right now...has a chance to cost them the season)

Edge-Judon is 18 and Uche 23 out of 32 (if they are going to make a playoff run these two need to put up legit sack #'s)

For Item #1: When teams have multiple holes to fill, they can't fill all of them at once. If they drafted an OT first (which by that point would have been the 4th or 5th tackle drafted), then people would say they didn't draft a CB. Plenty of folks wanted them to take a WR first. There is no doubt that tackle is now their biggest reason for concern. They have bodies . . . it remains to be seen if they can get anything out of them (I have my doubts). Brown has shown he can play well (he just doesn't seem like he is into playing well these days) and Onwenu could be moved to tackle like he was before. Everyone else at tackle is a hope and a prayer.

For Item #2: For some reason, PFF doesn't really score sacks highly in their evaluation of defenders. They care about other things more for some reason. NE ranked 3rd in sacks last season (only 1 sack out of 2nd).

The defense allowed the 4th fewest touchdowns last year (2 TD out of the top spot). That's sort of what I have been saying all along. Even without having game changing, top tier talent, the big picture for things is usually a lot better than the breakdown of the talent level of the individual players. In 2021, the offense scored 48 TD. Last year, that dropped to 31. With BOB on board, I don't see why they won't get back to that total again this year.

I don't think the defense got worse, and I definitely think the offense got better. It all comes down to Mac Jones. Either he plays better, or they will find another QB for next year. Not really that complicated.

Not buying the tackle excuse...sorry, you figure it out and there are other avenues outside of the draft like FA and trades...when you are completely devoid of talent at that position outside of a very unreliable (both physically and mentally) Trent Brown and you are trying to develop a young QB (and one that is not overly mobil) this hole goes to the top of your things to do list...if they move Onewu there and he does well I hope they are good with paying him high-end tackle money.

Question...do you honestly see a high-end D when they play against quality teams/QBs? I do think this unit has a chance to be a good one, but I think they do a decent amount of their damage against lesser opponents.

 

[Anarchy99]

Quesion...do you honestly see a high-end D when they play against quality teams/QBs? I do think this unit has a chance to be a good one but I think they do a decent amount of their damage against lesser opponents.

This requires a longer answer because I am not sure how to best explain my answer.

Do I think NE will hold a team like BUF or KC to 10 points? No. Do I think they can hold them to fewer points than the score against other teams? Yes. To make up numbers, I can see NE allowing higher scoring teams to 24-27 points and not 31-34. If good offensive teams score 31-34 points against everyone else and the Pats hold them to 24, does that make them a high-end defense?

Last year, the adjusted data analytics on the defense showed they were one of the best defenses in the league even against strong offenses. For example, the defense allowed 5 TD in 2 games against BUF. Special teams cost them those games. The Bills likely could have scored more if they needed to, but it would be interested to see if NE did put up more points if the Bills really could do better if they had to.

I see NE being able to score 24-27 points. They averaged 27 ppg in 2021. Strange things happen when you actually have a pro-level offensive coordinator. I don't see how this offensive unit is worse than the one from 2021. Compare the skill position groups:

WR: Paker, JJSS, Bourne, Thornton, Douglas, Boutte (with Marcus Jones as a gadget guy) - vs. - Meyers, Bourne, Agholor, Harry, Olszewski
TE: Hunter, Gesicki - vs. Hunter, Smith
RB: Stevenson, Montgomery, Strong, Harris (and likely someone else) - vs. - Harris, Stevenson, Bolden, Taylor

If the line gets straightened out, I think this year's group of skill players is stronger than the 2021 team (especially with Mac no longer a rookie).

Against better teams, if both teams score in the 20's, I think they have a chance. They should still win against weaker teams / weaker QBs / rookie QBs / backup QBs. I think they will be better than what the individual point spreads show for their schedule (they are only favored in 3 games all season at the moment).

 

[Boston]

Quesion...do you honestly see a high-end D when they play against quality teams/QBs? I do think this unit has a chance to be a good one but I think they do a decent amount of their damage against lesser opponents.

This requires a longer answer because I am not sure how to best explain my answer.

Do I think NE will hold a team like BUF or KC to 10 points? No. Do I think they can hold them to fewer points than the score against other teams? Yes. To make up numbers, I can see NE allowing higher scoring teams to 24-27 points and not 31-34. If good offensive teams score 31-34 points against everyone else and the Pats hold them to 24, does that make them a high-end defense?

Last year, the adjusted data analytics on the defense showed they were one of the best defenses in the league even against strong offenses. For example, the defense allowed 5 TD in 2 games against BUF. Special teams cost them those games. The Bills likely could have scored more if they needed to, but it would be interested to see if NE did put up more points if the Bills really could do better if they had to.

I see NE being able to score 24-27 points. They averaged 27 ppg in 2021. Strange things happen when you actually have a pro-level offensive coordinator. I don't see how this offensive unit is worse than the one from 2021. Compare the skill position groups:

WR: Paker, JJSS, Bourne, Thornton, Douglas, Boutte (with Marcus Jones as a gadget guy) - vs. - Meyers, Bourne, Agholor, Harry, Olszewski
TE: Hunter, Gesicki - vs. Hunter, Smith
RB: Stevenson, Montgomery, Strong, Harris (and likely someone else) - vs. - Harris, Stevenson, Bolden, Taylor

If the line gets straightened out, I think this year's group of skill players is stronger than the 2021 team (especially with Mac no longer a rookie).

Against better teams, if both teams score in the 20's, I think they have a chance. They should still win against weaker teams / weaker QBs / rookie QBs / backup QBs. I think they will be better than what the individual point spreads show for their schedule (they are only favored in 3 games all season at the moment).

Time to move on (at least for now)...you have total faith in BB and are good with continuing the path they are on...I don't believe they are heading in the right direction...it is year 4 post-Brady so we can let the play on the field speak for itself.

 

[Anarchy99]

Time to move on (at least for now)...you have total faith in BB and are good with continuing the path they are on...I don't believe they are heading in the right direction...it is year 4 post-Brady so we can let the play on the field speak for itself.

What of what I posted do you think is way off base? That the defense is still strong? That the offense won't be any better? That BOB won't make a huge difference? Yes, they are weak at OT and there are plenty of questions about Mac Jones. What else heading into this year are humungous, egregious, fireable offenses regarding this team?

Pick a position. They drafted 3 WR the past two drafts and signed one this year (and added an established TE). They drafted 4 OL players and signed multiple free agents last year and this year. They drafted 3 defensive players that could contribute this year (including 2 of them that could have significant roles right away). The offensive coaching staff was a mess last year and they replaced the coaching staff with real coaches.

I am guessing you don't like any of those new faces, who they drafted, or how they are constructing the team. Sure, it would be a luxury to bring in and pay a guy like Tyreek Hill. It would be great to have the next Tom Brady, but no such candidate presented himself. Plenty of teams struggle to find a franchise guy. What would appease you out of Mac this year? 4,000/30? Supposed he did that and they were 7-10? What if he were 3500/22 and they were 11-6? Until BB has a truly disastrous season, I don't see how he gets shown the door.

 

[Boston]

Time to move on (at least for now)...you have total faith in BB and are good with continuing the path they are on...I don't believe they are heading in the right direction...it is year 4 post-Brady so we can let the play on the field speak for itself.

What of what I posted do you think is way off base? That the defense is still strong? That the offense won't be any better? That BOB won't make a huge difference? Yes, they are weak at OT and there are plenty of questions about Mac Jones. What else heading into this year are humungous, egregious, fireable offenses regarding this team?

Pick a position. They drafted 3 WR the past two drafts and signed one this year (and added an established TE). They drafted 4 OL players and signed multiple free agents last year and this year. They drafted 3 defensive players that could contribute this year (including 2 of them that could have significant roles right away). The offensive coaching staff was a mess last year and they replaced the coaching staff with real coaches.

I am guessing you don't like any of those new faces, who they drafted, or how they are constructing the team. Sure, it would be a luxury to bring in and pay a guy like Tyreek Hill. It would be great to have the next Tom Brady, but no such candidate presented himself. Plenty of teams struggle to find a franchise guy. What would appease you out of Mac this year? 4,000/30? Supposed he did that and they were 7-10? What if he were 3500/22 and they were 11-6? Until BB has a truly disastrous season, I don't see how he gets shown the door.

Time to move on...I will leave it at this...BB had the greatest player of all time for a very long time...he also won championships when he had big time players like Bruschi, Law, Willie, Harrison, Vrabel, Seymour, Warren, Faulk, Gronk, Edelman, Light, Thuney, Gilmore, Revis, Dillon, Jones, Solder, Wilfork, Hightower, White and a host of other players who were awesome in their roles...I look at how this team is being constructed and it as if TB12 is still there and I feel it is a fatal flaw because it has no chance of being anything more than mediocre...you also seem to think that some on today's roster is comparable to some of the guys I just listed as you feel the Pats were not that talented during this era...I do not think it is comparable and don't think it is even close (and since they are rebuilding that is understanding but I don't think this roster has a chance at all)...I am not gonna go off on tangents about this or get involved with pretend facts about players like Tyreek Hill...bottom-line is I have zero faith that this team is heading down a path that will lead to anything more than average in today's NFL...as a very long-time Pats fan I have seen the highs and the very lows and I hope I am wrong but I right now I don't think the current plan is a winning one and I am not talking about championships...just being a legit contender that is relevant.

 

[Anarchy99]

Time to move on...I will leave it at this...BB had the greatest player of all time for a very long time...he also won championships when he had big time players like Bruschi, Law, Willie, Harrison, Vrabel, Seymour, Warren, Faulk, Gronk, Edelman, Light, Thuney, Gilmore, Revis, Dillon, Jones, Solder, Wilfork, Hightower, White and a host of other players who were awesome in their roles...I look at how this team is being constructed and it as if TB12 is still there and I feel it is a fatal flaw because it has no chance of being anything more than mediocre...you also seem to think that some on today's roster is comparable to some of the guys I just listed as you feel the Pats were not that talented during this era...I do not think it is comparable and don't think it is even close...I am not gonna go off on tangents about this or get involved with pretend facts about players like Tyreek Hill...bottom-line is I have zero faith that this team is heading down a path that will lead to anything more than average in today's NFL...as a very long-time Pats fan I have seen the highs and the very lows and I hope I am wrong but I right now I don't think the current plan is a winning one and I am not talking about championships...just being a legit contender that is relevant.

You listed 20 players across 20 years of football. Those guys didn't play together. You also listed some guys that barely played for NE in Gilmore, Revis, Dillon (who were there for one SB win). Split them up into early era and late era. The only 2 guys you listed from offense in the early era were Faulk and Light. Everyone else listed played on defense. I know you are a big Brady advocate, but you listed 8 defensive players from the early years. In the second group, you listed only 4 defenders, and Revis and Gilmore were there for one title each. Yet the defense still played at a high level.

No one is disputing that NE over the years has had some very good players or excellent role players. But from 2005 on, they haven't had many of them at the same time. That was what I was driving at the whole time. BB the GM successfully shuffled the roster and got contributions from guys that people barely remember. He pieced it together from year to year. In the second era, he took a chance on an injured Gronk in the draft and used a 7th round pick on Edleman and converted him from QB. Since then, he regularly has drafted guys that fell in the draft that had injuries in college that wouldn't have fallen that far otherwise. The difference is, most of them didn't turn into Gronk (or top producers).

BB took a chance on Brady and Edleman late in their drafts. He still takes chances on guys late in the draft (Boutte this year, trying to convert Cunningham from QB to WR this year, etc.). Over the years, he's brought in cast offs from other teams and developed them into solid role players (including some you mentioned). He still brings in guys from other teams or UDFAs and turns them into starters. Successful teams in the salary cap era all need to get contributions from guys on low dollar contracts that way outperform their expectations.

Like you keep saying, the main difference is they don't have Brady. That's BB's biggest sin and atrocity is they no longer trots out the GOAT. How many other teams that have been serious SB contenders in recent seasons without a HOF or All Pro level QB? None. Everything else about the team not going in the right direction, who is on the roster, etc. won't make any difference to NE or any other team if they don't have a top QB. This year they should find out if Mac is a contender or a pretender. The Kraft's seemingly are big Mac supporters, and IMO that doesn't seem like a great stance or position if he throws 12 TD and 22 picks this year. No one really knows what BB things about Jones. People like to guess, but no one really knows. I suspect Bill has his suspicions one way or the other, but if Bill doesn't really think he is "the guy," and the Kraft's think he is "the guy," then there could easily be a big problem.

 

[Boston]

Time to move on...I will leave it at this...BB had the greatest player of all time for a very long time...he also won championships when he had big time players like Bruschi, Law, Willie, Harrison, Vrabel, Seymour, Warren, Faulk, Gronk, Edelman, Light, Thuney, Gilmore, Revis, Dillon, Jones, Solder, Wilfork, Hightower, White and a host of other players who were awesome in their roles...I look at how this team is being constructed and it as if TB12 is still there and I feel it is a fatal flaw because it has no chance of being anything more than mediocre...you also seem to think that some on today's roster is comparable to some of the guys I just listed as you feel the Pats were not that talented during this era...I do not think it is comparable and don't think it is even close...I am not gonna go off on tangents about this or get involved with pretend facts about players like Tyreek Hill...bottom-line is I have zero faith that this team is heading down a path that will lead to anything more than average in today's NFL...as a very long-time Pats fan I have seen the highs and the very lows and I hope I am wrong but I right now I don't think the current plan is a winning one and I am not talking about championships...just being a legit contender that is relevant.

You listed 20 players across 20 years of football. Those guys didn't play together. You also listed some guys that barely played for NE in Gilmore, Revis, Dillon (who were there for one SB win). Split them up into early era and late era. The only 2 guys you listed from offense in the early era were Faulk and Light. Everyone else listed played on defense. I know you are a big Brady advocate, but you listed 8 defensive players from the early years. In the second group, you listed only 4 defenders, and Revis and Gilmore were there for one title each. Yet the defense still played at a high level.

No one is disputing that NE over the years has had some very good players or excellent role players. But from 2005 on, they haven't had many of them at the same time. That was what I was driving at the whole time. BB the GM successfully shuffled the roster and got contributions from guys that people barely remember. He pieced it together from year to year. In the second era, he took a chance on an injured Gronk in the draft and used a 7th round pick on Edleman and converted him from QB. Since then, he regularly has drafted guys that fell in the draft that had injuries in college that wouldn't have fallen that far otherwise. The difference is, most of them didn't turn into Gronk (or top producers).

BB took a chance on Brady and Edleman late in their drafts. He still takes chances on guys late in the draft (Boutte this year, trying to convert Cunningham from QB to WR this year, etc.). Over the years, he's brought in cast offs from other teams and developed them into solid role players (including some you mentioned). He still brings in guys from other teams or UDFAs and turns them into starters. Successful teams in the salary cap era all need to get contributions from guys on low dollar contracts that way outperform their expectations.

Like you keep saying, the main difference is they don't have Brady. That's BB's biggest sin and atrocity is they no longer trots out the GOAT. How many other teams that have been serious SB contenders in recent seasons without a HOF or All Pro level QB? None. Everything else about the team not going in the right direction, who is on the roster, etc. won't make any difference to NE or any other team if they don't have a top QB. This year they should find out if Mac is a contender or a pretender. The Kraft's seemingly are big Mac supporters, and IMO that doesn't seem like a great stance or position if he throws 12 TD and 22 picks this year. No one really knows what BB things about Jones. People like to guess, but no one really knows. I suspect Bill has his suspicions one way or the other, but if Bill doesn't really think he is "the guy," and the Kraft's think he is "the guy," then there could easily be a big problem.

We see two totally different things...for the last time...it is not a sin to not have Tom Brady or another elite QB (so please stop saying that because it is utterly false that I am saying that)...that is reality and I do not fault BB for not having one because it is beyond difficult to get one...the sin is to continue building the team the same way you did with Brady because it won't work without him or another elite QB...it is that simple and the fact that we are in a different era cannot be understated enough as well (yes, let's focus on special teams as the rules change)...you cannot build your team with the same formula...it is not going to work no matter how many paragraphs of excuses you make...no need for a long reply....we are both dug in and for me I will gladly dig out when the play on the field dictates I should.

 

[Anarchy99]

I guess my question is, if we agree that teams can't win without an elite QB, then what difference does the roster construction strategy make? The biggest reason NE isn't winning is they don't have Brady or another elite QB. How do we know building the team this way wouldn't work with another elite QB? All we know right now so far is that Mac Jones as a game manager can't be a SB team like Brady was 20+ years ago. That part I agree with. They either need to develop Jones to be an elite QB (doubtful) or at least get him to play a lot closer to that level . . . or move on to someone else. IMO, if they had that type of QB, this team and this roster could be in the running every year (strong defense, strong running game, strong OC coordinator, and with an elite QB a strong passing game). What weaknesses would they have (other than tackle)?

 

[Boston]

I guess my question is, if we agree that teams can't win without an elite QB, then what difference does the roster construction strategy make? The biggest reason NE isn't winning is they don't have Brady or another elite QB. How do we know building the team this way wouldn't work with another elite QB? All we know right now so far is that Mac Jones as a game manager can't be a SB team like Brady was 20+ years ago. That part I agree with. They either need to develop Jones to be an elite QB (doubtful) or at least get him to play a lot closer to that level . . . or move on to someone else. IMO, if they had that type of QB, this team and this roster could be in the running every year (strong defense, strong running game, strong OC coordinator, and with an elite QB a strong passing game). What weaknesses would they have (other than tackle)?

I'll pass...again, you think this roster is much better than I do.

 

[elguapo07]

Without getting in too deep can someone explain to me how/why the Pats are listed at 31st on spending. I believe there is a 90% floor that teams have to spend up to but I thought I read recently that the Pats were at ~ 200M while Buf was closer to 300M.

I’m trying to figure if it’s Kraft that is quietly keeping payroll down or if it’s more BB and his next man up strategy while trying to always do more with less. They spent big a few years ago on WR and TE that hasn’t netted the ROI they had hope for.

Spending seems more highlighted in baseball as there are huge disparities but I was surprised to read that NE is basically at the bottom of the spending list and would like to hear people’s take on their cap/spending situation.

 

[Anarchy99]

Without getting in too deep can someone explain to me how/why the Pats are listed at 31st on spending. I believe there is a 90% floor that teams have to spend up to but I thought I read recently that the Pats were at ~ 200M while Buf was closer to 300M.

I’m trying to figure if it’s Kraft that is quietly keeping payroll down or if it’s more BB and his next man up strategy while trying to always do more with less. They spent big a few years ago on WR and TE that hasn’t netted the ROI they had hope for.

Spending seems more highlighted in baseball as there are huge disparities but I was surprised to read that NE is basically at the bottom of the spending list and would like to hear people’s take on their cap/spending situation.

NE by far has the most cap space in 2024 and 2025. They have very few people signed long term. They are in position to go out and buy a new roster if they wanted to. Based on cap projections:

2023 Cap Space - $17M
2024 - $110M
2025 - $223M
2026 - $293M

 

[elguapo07]

Without getting in too deep can someone explain to me how/why the Pats are listed at 31st on spending. I believe there is a 90% floor that teams have to spend up to but I thought I read recently that the Pats were at ~ 200M while Buf was closer to 300M.

I’m trying to figure if it’s Kraft that is quietly keeping payroll down or if it’s more BB and his next man up strategy while trying to always do more with less. They spent big a few years ago on WR and TE that hasn’t netted the ROI they had hope for.

Spending seems more highlighted in baseball as there are huge disparities but I was surprised to read that NE is basically at the bottom of the spending list and would like to hear people’s take on their cap/spending situation.

NE by far has the most cap space in 2024 and 2025. They have very few people signed long term. They are in position to go out and buy a new roster if they wanted to. Based on cap projections:

2023 Cap Space - $17M
2024 - $110M
2025 - $223M
2026 - $293M

If Mac plays well this year do they lock him up sooner rather than later or will they need to see him do it 2yrs in a row?

 

[Anarchy99]

Without getting in too deep can someone explain to me how/why the Pats are listed at 31st on spending. I believe there is a 90% floor that teams have to spend up to but I thought I read recently that the Pats were at ~ 200M while Buf was closer to 300M.

I’m trying to figure if it’s Kraft that is quietly keeping payroll down or if it’s more BB and his next man up strategy while trying to always do more with less. They spent big a few years ago on WR and TE that hasn’t netted the ROI they had hope for.

Spending seems more highlighted in baseball as there are huge disparities but I was surprised to read that NE is basically at the bottom of the spending list and would like to hear people’s take on their cap/spending situation.

NE by far has the most cap space in 2024 and 2025. They have very few people signed long term. They are in position to go out and buy a new roster if they wanted to. Based on cap projections:

2023 Cap Space - $17M
2024 - $110M
2025 - $223M
2026 - $293M

If Mac plays well this year do they lock him up sooner rather than later or will they need to see him do it 2yrs in a row?

IMO, he’s playing this year to earn the fifth year option. The following year would be the year they would give him the bag or not.

 

[elguapo07]

Without getting in too deep can someone explain to me how/why the Pats are listed at 31st on spending. I believe there is a 90% floor that teams have to spend up to but I thought I read recently that the Pats were at ~ 200M while Buf was closer to 300M.

I’m trying to figure if it’s Kraft that is quietly keeping payroll down or if it’s more BB and his next man up strategy while trying to always do more with less. They spent big a few years ago on WR and TE that hasn’t netted the ROI they had hope for.

Spending seems more highlighted in baseball as there are huge disparities but I was surprised to read that NE is basically at the bottom of the spending list and would like to hear people’s take on their cap/spending situation.

NE by far has the most cap space in 2024 and 2025. They have very few people signed long term. They are in position to go out and buy a new roster if they wanted to. Based on cap projections:

2023 Cap Space - $17M
2024 - $110M
2025 - $223M
2026 - $293M

If Mac plays well this year do they lock him up sooner rather than later or will they need to see him do it 2yrs in a row?

IMO, he’s playing this year to earn the fifth year option. The following year would be the year they would give him the bag or not.

Makes sense as last year was basically a throw way with Patracia and Judge running the O.

 

[fuzzy_dunlop]

Fans and reporters apparently think it's Boston's privilege to continue to be in the SB every other season . . .

QFT. To be fair, BB has openly resented the media for years so it comes as no surprise the knives are out.

 

[RenegadeRoy]

The only thing worse than the Felger/Mazz troll media style is their callers. The bandwagon really did become overstuffed these past 2 decades. If we stink for a stretch it'll come with the silver lining of these spoiled fairweather fans hitting the bricks. Did these morons think it would last forever??

I grew up in New England but moved away a couple decades ago. Whenever I'm back in the area I always love listening to the local sports radio because it's so unhinged.

 

[need2know]

Rooting for his and the pats demise. In my eyes they have fallen behind everyone in their division. No way they make the playoffs.

 

[Faust]

Patriots head coach Bill Belichick looking to 'start all over' after second straight blowout loss

 

[Faust]

The Athletic’s Jeff Howe reports Patriots owner Robert Kraft “has grown frustrated, if not downright angry” over the team’s struggles.

Kraft, according to Howe, does not subscribe to the idea that Belichick is untouchable as New England’s coach. Kraft has grown weary of the team’s mediocrity after two straight blowout losses to the Cowboys and Saints, the latter game a 34-0 disaster at home. The Pats are second to last in point differential (-76). Kraft, per Howe, has questioned Bill Belichick’s refusal to invest a high-end wide receiver in a league that has trended toward the pass in recent decades. That approach worked with Tom Brady; it has not worked with Mac Jones. More lopsided losses could lead to an unthinkable shakeup in New England.

 

[Faust]

Tom Brady isn't walking through that door for Bill Belichick and things could get even uglier for the Patriots

 

[TwinTurbo]

I guess my question is, if we agree that teams can't win without an elite QB, then what difference does the roster construction strategy make? The biggest reason NE isn't winning is they don't have Brady or another elite QB. How do we know building the team this way wouldn't work with another elite QB? All we know right now so far is that Mac Jones as a game manager can't be a SB team like Brady was 20+ years ago. That part I agree with. They either need to develop Jones to be an elite QB (doubtful) or at least get him to play a lot closer to that level . . . or move on to someone else. IMO, if they had that type of QB, this team and this roster could be in the running every year (strong defense, strong running game, strong OC coordinator, and with an elite QB a strong passing game). What weaknesses would they have (other than tackle)?

The other reason they aren't winning is the rest of the AFC East is good now even the Jets. Imagine Josh Allen, Tagovailoa, and Aaron Rodgers were the other 3 AFC East QBs during the Brady years, instead of the clown car of QBs and coaching staffs the Pats D got to face for two decades. Now the the Pats are the clown car due in no small part to nepotism and poor talent evaluation.

 

[Faust]

Bill Belichick signed lucrative, multiyear deal with Patriots in offseason, unlikely to be fired this year

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Bill Belichick signed lucrative, multiyear deal with Patriots in offseason, unlikely to be fired this year

Every week I think they might stop the bleeding.
They played Miami 24-17, beat the Jets 15-10, they have very little offense and their defense has been decimated with injuries
They should get in on a Top 5 pick so they can select their next QB project because Mac is not the guy and destined for back up work at some point in the NFC