pinkstapler
Footballguy
I understand why we are where we are right now with Belichick, and make no mistake, I hated the Patriots to the point where it would effect my gambling strategy for a number of years (bet on them to win because then I either made money or would gladly "pay" to watch them lose). But I do hate this is where the conversation is at right now. Really wish he would walk away and we can move the conversation to recognizing him as a top 5 coach of all time in the NFL. Not that many of the points made in this thread aren't true and valid. But some lack nuance, and many err by omission. Anarchy may be a "homer", though I think he can be equally tough on his team and view them without rose colored glasses. And I appreciate his push back against some of the blanket statements that just aren't true.
Waldman and FBG own Adam Harstad had a terrific pod last week discussing more of the minutiae and looking at his career as a whole rather than these past couple years. Probably one of the biggest takeaways for me was just the poor/unlucky circumstance of Belichick's decline coinciding with Brady leaving the team. While it can create the narrative that Brady "carried" him, or that he wouldn't have been viewed as a top coach of all time without him; they do a fantastic job detailing how that couldn't be further from the case. For the better part of 20 years the entire league found both small and large scale success by borrowing, if not straight up copying, what Bill did. At this point, it does feel that the league has passed him by. It does for all the greats. Bill Walsh burned bright, but burned fast, and is still considered one of the best. Tom Landry got fired. Steelers let Chuck Noll die on vine and kept him years after he should have been let go. The longevity of Belichick combined with his wins over .500 is unrivaled by all but Halas and Shula. And while he would never be considered a great GM, I think there was a time where he was above average at least. He was a pro at trading back and acquiring later round picks, casting a wider net and catching his players that way. He also definitely had an eye for talent picking up cast offs who were written off or tagged as past their prime and able to turn them into gold. While its obvious WR was a weak spot, I'd argue there was a point in time he was one of the best with RBs. Jets cut Danny Woodhead a game into the season, didn't even want him on the roster, and Bill scooped him and got 1k yds from him immediately. And Gronk himself will tell you Belichick helped make him the greatest TE of all time not only with how he was initially employed in 12 personnel (at a time when the offense didn't even need to change it was already successful), but then when he reinvented TE usage and started running Gronk down the seem and pushing him down for those long explosive plays where no one could bring him down as he was already going full steam and the only defenders in the area were DBs 40+ lbs lighter than him.
Did he benefit from being in a poor division? Sure. The same way Brady did, but yet I rarely hear that as a knock against him. Did he benefit from Brady? Sure. Find me a HOF coach who didn't have their best years paired with a HOF QB. Shula Unitas. Landry Staubach. Lombardi Starr. It's an supporting factor. Not the reason. When did Brady really explode and start becoming the star of the show? 2007? 2008? Didn't that also happen to coincide with when Belichick basically reinvented NFL offenses bringing the shotgun spread in? At a time when other teams were running it maybe 20% of the time and he made it their base formation. And then 4-5 years later, every single other team in the league was doing it 80%+ of the time. And Brady took off those years.
He was a guru, excellent with both offensive and defensive schemes, able to squeeze every last ounce of talent out of players many other overlooked, reinvented the game multiple times.... I hate him for his greatness, but damn if I'm gonna deny him his flowers. It's a crap situation to be in right now, and like I started with, I understand why we're here. But we probably all should put a little more respect on his name and what he's done rather then chalking up a 30 year GOAT contending career to Brady, a weak division, and a few poor drafts. Ok I have to go wash my mouth out now, and will return to another decade of declining to ever say nice things about Brady/Bill/the Patriots.
Waldman and FBG own Adam Harstad had a terrific pod last week discussing more of the minutiae and looking at his career as a whole rather than these past couple years. Probably one of the biggest takeaways for me was just the poor/unlucky circumstance of Belichick's decline coinciding with Brady leaving the team. While it can create the narrative that Brady "carried" him, or that he wouldn't have been viewed as a top coach of all time without him; they do a fantastic job detailing how that couldn't be further from the case. For the better part of 20 years the entire league found both small and large scale success by borrowing, if not straight up copying, what Bill did. At this point, it does feel that the league has passed him by. It does for all the greats. Bill Walsh burned bright, but burned fast, and is still considered one of the best. Tom Landry got fired. Steelers let Chuck Noll die on vine and kept him years after he should have been let go. The longevity of Belichick combined with his wins over .500 is unrivaled by all but Halas and Shula. And while he would never be considered a great GM, I think there was a time where he was above average at least. He was a pro at trading back and acquiring later round picks, casting a wider net and catching his players that way. He also definitely had an eye for talent picking up cast offs who were written off or tagged as past their prime and able to turn them into gold. While its obvious WR was a weak spot, I'd argue there was a point in time he was one of the best with RBs. Jets cut Danny Woodhead a game into the season, didn't even want him on the roster, and Bill scooped him and got 1k yds from him immediately. And Gronk himself will tell you Belichick helped make him the greatest TE of all time not only with how he was initially employed in 12 personnel (at a time when the offense didn't even need to change it was already successful), but then when he reinvented TE usage and started running Gronk down the seem and pushing him down for those long explosive plays where no one could bring him down as he was already going full steam and the only defenders in the area were DBs 40+ lbs lighter than him.
Did he benefit from being in a poor division? Sure. The same way Brady did, but yet I rarely hear that as a knock against him. Did he benefit from Brady? Sure. Find me a HOF coach who didn't have their best years paired with a HOF QB. Shula Unitas. Landry Staubach. Lombardi Starr. It's an supporting factor. Not the reason. When did Brady really explode and start becoming the star of the show? 2007? 2008? Didn't that also happen to coincide with when Belichick basically reinvented NFL offenses bringing the shotgun spread in? At a time when other teams were running it maybe 20% of the time and he made it their base formation. And then 4-5 years later, every single other team in the league was doing it 80%+ of the time. And Brady took off those years.
He was a guru, excellent with both offensive and defensive schemes, able to squeeze every last ounce of talent out of players many other overlooked, reinvented the game multiple times.... I hate him for his greatness, but damn if I'm gonna deny him his flowers. It's a crap situation to be in right now, and like I started with, I understand why we're here. But we probably all should put a little more respect on his name and what he's done rather then chalking up a 30 year GOAT contending career to Brady, a weak division, and a few poor drafts. Ok I have to go wash my mouth out now, and will return to another decade of declining to ever say nice things about Brady/Bill/the Patriots.
