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Healing And Moving Forward - Thoughts? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
- Start date
Insein
Footballguy
Convicting him during impeachment of a crime would lead to his removal from office. Inciting an issurection I'm fairly certain (but I don't have the book in front of me) is a crime.
Insein
Footballguy
They didn't seem to stop them from moving forth with impeachment here. So I'd say you're proven incorrect. Any public speaker has the potential for this now based on the precedent set.
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The Commish
Footballguy
Which precedent are you speaking of? We have a long history of events where people have been convicted of crimes because people act on their words/actions.
Insein
Footballguy
Well most people would look at context and see that the proceeding words were talking about election security. Since he mentions lawsuits and protests, I would think a reasonable person could interpret that as such.meh....I can't chalk their actions matching everything he's been preaching up to coincidence...I guess some canI mean "fight like hell" has like a billion different meanings...what could he have possibly meant?!
Insein
Footballguy
Political speakers that have directly called for a criminal activity to be committed have been charged with crimes (very few though). However to my knowledge, no political figure has been charged for non specific words that others have interpreted as calls to violence after a violent event occurred. This would open that door.
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
I think you are being too literal. So when Joe Mafia says to one of his henchman "I don't want to hear from Vinny ever again", and Vinny is found dead two days later. The FBI does not have a case to convict because Joe Mafia didn't say go kill him?Insein said:
I think the language and the actions will be interpreted. Of course Trump, or anyone, will not say "go invade the capital".
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Maxine Waters, anyone? AOC? Heck,we could go on and on.Insein said:
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Insein
Footballguy
Joe Mafia could not be convicted on that alone. Many criminal bosses have evaded jail time because of exactly that. There needs to be other connections and ties into the criminal doings directly to that person or they can be found not guilty.
Not to mention the bias being shown here is exactly the problem with this whole farce. The active president of the United States gives a speech at a protest for election security during the certification of the electoral college as encouragement to protest the results. Where in any of that if you're truly an objective person does that incite violence. People are being divided one more time before Trump is gone to keep everyone at each other's throats to take the focus off of the elites and keep it against each other. Yet some people are all too willing to play along.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
Tell you what...shove the goalposts around and let me know when you're done...then we can talk....whether it's a "political figure" or not makes little difference but noticed that is now added as a condition. While I wait on that, I'm also interested in the first part....what cases are you referring to? TIA.
BigJim®
Footballguy
Agree to disagree. The speech was quite public and has been condemned by both sides. If a speech claiming victory of a lost democratic election, and direction to thousands of protesters to march up Pennsylvania and be strong of they will lose America is the bar that puts 'any public speaker' in jeopardy, that isn't troubling to me, personally.
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
I should have clarified that the guy he said "I dont want to hear form Vinny again" to, was also found to be the murderer.
gianmarco
Footballguy
"Your honor, I wasn't trying to buy any drugs from that undercover officer. I wanted to know if he had a dime. I had no idea it meant something else."
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Willful ignorance is a big part of what's keeping us divided. As I said before, I can have empathy for people dealing with difficult situations, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with them when they posit nonsensical opinions based on lack of information or, worse, disinformation. When they aggressively forward their misinformed agendas, such that it might impact my life and the lives of others, that's when it makes it tough to attempt reconciliation - there's no good faith cooperation happening in that circumstance. I'm not going to capitulate to systemic ignorance and unreason just so we can all get along, nor should we expect or demand anyone else do so.
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dgreen
Footballguy
Ok. So am I correct in interpreting this to mean that you think the Senate voting to convict him of inciting an insurrection would then lead to him being charged with a crime afterwards? And, therefore, you are opposed to the impeachment because it might lead to a criminal charge that you disagree with?
I'm sorry if I'm not following. This is what I get for jumping into the middle of a conversation.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
It's still amazing people defend this guy. Trump wouldn't pee on you if you were on fire but you'll defend his nonsense to what end? Why do you care if he gets impeached and can't run again*. Do you WANT to vote for him again? Even McConnell and Graham think it's time to cut bait so I'm not even sure why people are going to bat for Trump unless they just hate letting liberals "win". Bizarre.
And to answer the usual retorts. Yes, Biden lies. I didn't want Biden to be the nominee. If Biden did something wrong with China, get rid of him. I'm not a Democrat. I think that about covers it.
*I know impeachment doesn't mean that part but they can vote on that part separately I guess??
And to answer the usual retorts. Yes, Biden lies. I didn't want Biden to be the nominee. If Biden did something wrong with China, get rid of him. I'm not a Democrat. I think that about covers it.
*I know impeachment doesn't mean that part but they can vote on that part separately I guess??
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Insein
Footballguy
It had nothing to do with Trump. It has to do with this farce congress is hoisting on the American people. I don't care if he ever runs again. The president of the United States was cancelled by Tech and banking companies and their subordinates in congress are going through with this masquerade to try to legitimize it.
You shouldn't ask yourself why are people defending trump. You should ask yourself why am I ok with mega multinational corporations that have committed atrocities that would make the Nazis blush dictating the moral code for our society? Who elected them our overlords?
The Commish
Footballguy
The people who rely on them by using their products/features and act like the world is coming to an end if they don't have "access" to the net? Seriously....that's who. If social media went away tomorrow, I'd be dancing in the streets. Why people support them the way they do is beyond me.
Stoneworker
Footballguy
This impeachment is a colossal waste of time and resources. Get on with the business of governing and stop fighting yesterday's battles.
BigJim®
Footballguy
Oh my. Yeah, I'd call this an extreme perspective of corporations protecting their own businesses from accountability and/or association with one who seeks to upend a democracy they exist within.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Since it seems I'm the representative for my reasonable Trump supporting friends
they would say the exact same but flipped with "I'm not even sure why people are going for impeachment unless they just hate letting Trump supporters get a tiny "win" of leaving office without impeachment."I know that's not a popular take here and I don't know that I agree with it and I have no interest or time to debate it. But that's what they tell me.
I do personally think impeachment is increasing the divide and distracting from serious challenges that need to be taken on with Covid and the economy.
I'll bow out now.
Insein
Footballguy
And just happen to completely wiped out a potential market competitor from the face of the Earth on the same flimsy standards. Just an added bonus I suppose.
BigJim®
Footballguy
AAABatteries
Footballguy
AAABatteries
Footballguy
No need to bow out - not sure why you do that unless you are busy.Since it seems I'm the representative for my reasonable Trump supporting friends
I know that's not a popular take here and I don't know that I agree with it and I have no interest or time to debate it. But that's what they tell me.
I do personally think impeachment is increasing the divide and distracting from serious challenges that need to be taken on with Covid and the economy.
I'll bow out now.
I think early on I said don't impeach or do anything and let the clock run out. I don't care as much about it increasing the divide (it would happen either way) but I do think distracting from other things is a legitimate concern. But there's 3 arguments that I find persuasive against all of that. 1. Trump should be held accountable for his actions. 2. He shouldn't be allowed to run again. 3. We should strongly discourage somebody from any party to doing the same.
timschochet
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Disagree but even if you’re right, is it relevant? If impeachment is called for then it’s called for. The healing and everything else might have to wait.
Insein
Footballguy
Have you not been paying attention to Parler. Google, Apple and Amazon along with several banks have basically destroyed them in less than a day for "allowing hate speech" on their platform.
dgreen
Footballguy
Yeah, I think "increasing the divide" isn't a very good argument to not impeach. Ignoring what Trump did and not pursuing impeachment wasn't going to decrease the divide. And if I'm wrong about that, which is possible, I'm extremely confident it wouldn't have reduced the divide enough to justify closing our eyes to what he did.
As for a distraction, I don't think that's a good argument either. COVID distracted us from other things we'd rather do at that time, but we allowed it to distract us because it was the right thing to address this very important issue that hit us in the face. This impeachment is similar. Yeah, it is a distraction from other things, but it happened and needs to be dealt with. It can't be ignored or swept under the rug. Distractions happen and force us to prioritize. Prioritizing a Trump trial seems like the right thing to do.
Insein
Footballguy
How many lives have been destroyed by multinationals like Apple, Google etc around the world. Hard to quantify since we rarely hear the specifics but it's happening. Now they just flexed their true power for all to see.
What should really scare you is how many former executives from these companies and Black Rock will be on the new Cabinet. These companies have the ability to silence and defund the POTUS. Why should they care about what any of us think.
BigJim®
Footballguy
Of course I have, but you're lumping a bunch of independent things to an outcome "And just happen to completely wiped out a potential market competitor." The AWS decision to terminate Parler did not wipe out its competitor. The twitter decision to ban Trump did not wipe out a competitor.
Insein
Footballguy
Twitter banned Trump knowing full well their stock would plummet from their most famous account. Not even half a day later, apple and Google ban Parler (the company that stood to benefit directly from Trump being banned) from their app store, Amazon removes their server access without notice (when their contract requires 30 days) and their bank cancels their credit. Yea. Complete coincidence. Nothing to see here folks.
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timschochet
Footballguy
First off I have no idea what you’re talking about. Second, comparing them to the Nazis? I’ve seen some bad Nazi analogies (just started a thread about that) but this may be the second worst one yet.
(The worst serious Nazi analogy of all time was made in the 1990s by the radical animal rights group PETA when they compared chicken in cages to Dachau Concentration Camp. It will be quite difficult for anyone to ever wrest away the top spot from PETA, though folks on all sides of the political spectrum do try all the time.)
BigJim®
Footballguy
I agree, not coincidence at all given the PR crisis each faced. Also nothing done by any one company to wipe out a competitor.
JAA
Footballguy
I would argue we are too eristic. There is too much debate to dispute others argument and not enough searching for the truth.
JAA
Footballguy
There are a lot of Americans who disagree with this statement. How should we handle it?
JAA
Footballguy
As a Trump hater, I feel that he disrespected the presidency for just about his entire term. That's my opinion and I understand people will despise me for that opinion. Im OK with that.Since it seems I'm the representative for my reasonable Trump supporting friends
I know that's not a popular take here and I don't know that I agree with it and I have no interest or time to debate it. But that's what they tell me.
I do personally think impeachment is increasing the divide and distracting from serious challenges that need to be taken on with Covid and the economy.
I'll bow out now.
I supported both impeachments. I feel that there is a line between individual opinion and impeachable offenses. Without the Ukraine call and the capital insurrection I think it would be fine to simply label me a hater. However, these two situations in many opinions was actionable.
Yes - there are people who wanted nothing but to get rid of him day one. There are also people who were simply disgusted with him but accepted him being elected and tried to figure out how to wade the waters.
JAA
Footballguy
Have you see the screen shots from Parler which initiated this? Are there specific ones you think were appropriate and should have been allowed?
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
If only there was a group of elected officials who could help us decide how to handle that....
JAA
Footballguy
I respectfully disagree with your measurement that there are more Americans who disagree with impeachment. May I ask how you know there are more Americans who disagree with impeachment than agree with it?
Insein
Footballguy
Have you seen the same ones on Twitter? Have you seen the coordinated terrorist groups communicating in twitter around the world? Have you seen the blatant sharing and sale of pedophilia on twitter that goes without a suspension even in most cases? How bout the government propaganda from the CCP to cover up genocide? Guess the fact checkers weren't on top of that one.
The point is where's the immediate moral outrage from apple and Google on that one? They still carry the app on their stores therefore they support all this things I guess.
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Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
I'm not sure that Trump doesn't bring the GOP many more voters that would not be there otherwise as opposed to voters he obviously loses for them. I'm not so sure that when Trump says "only me" with respect to the GOP he isn't correct. And if I was a GOP politician that being unsure would seem to be crippling.
The Commish
Footballguy
And to this I say...with a little
but not as much as one might like....."pull yourself up by your bootstraps parler....where there's a will there's a way and you can do it"...there, problem solved! 
Stoneworker
Footballguy
Censure. Doesn't tie up resources, doesn't further divide, sets tone for bi-partisan agenda, enables rapid approval of Biden appts, etc.
The notion that impeachment will somehow deter future transgressions is an illusion. Johnson didn't prevent Nixon, Nixon didn't deter Clinton, Clinton didn't deter Trump
JAA
Footballguy
Thank you for contributing here.
No I have not seen the coordinated terrorist groups in twitter around the world. I have not seen the blatant sharing and sale of pedophilia on twitter. I have not see any of the CCP propaganda. I must say that I haven't actively looked for any of it either. I also havnt read or seen any articles which show any of it and I do read a lot of sources of news and media.
One thing I don't understand, and I would ask for some help with, is why do conservatives want to tell any company how to conduct business? I understand some dont like it and some feel wronged by it, but isnt it a Conservative tenant to allow business and trade to act freely? I mean, if google and apple want to ban parler for any reason, whats the problem?
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