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Heisman talk (1 Viewer)

Captain Spaulding

Captain Spaulding

Footballguy
I'm going with Colt Brennan. He led his team to undefeated season. He's put up 5 TD's the last 2 games...400+ yards and pulled out tough victories in both. What more could you want from a Heisman winner when it counts most. I know he may just end up being the next Danny Wuerfel and the fact that he hasn't played a tough SEC or Big 10 schedule, but for a college QB he has done it all and proved it all on the field in every measureable catagory. Plus in 2006 he put up astronomical 58 TD's and 5500 passing yards....if there ever was justice in giving an award the year after a youngster pays his dues first, this would be a good cause for that.

Tebow has 3 losses, not nearly the passing yards, and only one challenging victory on the season (9/23 against Miss). What have you done for me lately? 3 TD's against Florida Atl. and Florida St. isn't nearly as impressive as 5 TD's against both Boise St. and Washngton.

 
Colt Brennan seems the most worthy. Undefeated team. Spectacular #s. Nice come from behind wins on a couple of occasions, particularly yestereday's win vs Washington. He already had a large amount of hype coming into the season. There's really not much more he could have done this year. Tebow's 20 plus rushing and passing TDs is mighty impressive. He may win it on that alone. But like you said, they lost 3 games. Brennan should win it. He's had the best year of any college football player this year.

 
Tebow or McFadden

They are just better than anyone out there at their respective positions and their team would be no where without them.

 
Brennan also has the ALL TIME NCAA record for TD passes. Justice would not be served if he doesn't get a Heismann with all of the things he has accomplished (this year alone its justified...NCAA career moreso).

 
TEBOW all they way!

He does have the three loses but put him up against Hawaii's schedule and he might have 60+ TDs and put Brennan in the SEC and he would have more than 3 loses and less TDs. The award is given to the best football player of that year, it is not a career award. Tebow had played better competition.

 
I would have saild Chase Daniel yesterday but today I'm saying Colt Brennan. I'm not saying he is the most talented but I am saying he has had the best year statisically and he has been the most outstanding player this year. I have this feeling McFadden will get it unfortunetly. I think Tebow is to young for the voters,

 
Captain Spaulding said:
Brennan also has the ALL TIME NCAA record for TD passes. Justice would not be served if he doesn't get a Heismann with all of the things he has accomplished (this year alone its justified...NCAA career moreso).
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Wow. That I did not know. I have a feeling your man will win it. And McFadden has certainly had a great season. But his team lost 4 games, and a case can be made that his backup RB is just as talented as he is. That other kid rushed for over 9yds a carry and also had double digit TDs. And DMac will certainly be a great pro, but there's a long line of solid pro RBs that have had similar seasons to McFadden, and lost out on the Heisman to players like Ty Detmer, Gino Toretta, Danny Wuerffel, Troy Smith and Eric Crouch to name a few. The voters have been pretty consistent about giving QBs the award when they put up spectacular #s while leading their teams to 11 and 12 win seasons. Im just not sure that only 8 or 9 wins is enough to justify any player having the 'best' season when the bottom line is winning.
 
How can you say Tebow has one good win when Brenan doesn't play a real team all year. Boise State and Washington would win 3 games in the SEC.

 
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I watched the Hawaii/Wash game this morning (taped it from last night). I didn't realize Hawaii was down 21 - 0 to Washington in first quarter. Brennan got injured in first quarter. Then half way into the 2nd quarter it was 27-7. Hawaii won Amazing comeback, that's what Heismann winners do.

 
Captain Spaulding said:
I watched the Hawaii/Wash game this morning (taped it from last night). I didn't realize Hawaii was down 21 - 0 to Washington in first quarter. Brennan got injured in first quarter. Then half way into the 2nd quarter it was 27-7. Hawaii won Amazing comeback, that's what Heismann winners do.
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Heisman winners accomplish things against real teams. They don't pad stats vs terrible teams.
 
Brennan wont win it cause of the competition level he plays against. Its not his fault but thats the way it is.

Thats why Tomlinson didnt win it those years he rushed for over 2000 yds, he played at TCU(wac or mountian west).

Thats why I say Tebow will win it.

 
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twitch said:
Captain Spaulding said:
Brennan also has the ALL TIME NCAA record for TD passes. Justice would not be served if he doesn't get a Heismann with all of the things he has accomplished (this year alone its justified...NCAA career moreso).
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Wow. That I did not know. I have a feeling your man will win it. And McFadden has certainly had a great season. But his team lost 4 games, and a case can be made that his backup RB is just as talented as he is. That other kid rushed for over 9yds a carry and also had double digit TDs. And DMac will certainly be a great pro, but there's a long line of solid pro RBs that have had similar seasons to McFadden, and lost out on the Heisman to players like Ty Detmer, Gino Toretta, Danny Wuerffel, Troy Smith and Eric Crouch to name a few. The voters have been pretty consistent about giving QBs the award when they put up spectacular #s while leading their teams to 11 and 12 win seasons. Im just not sure that only 8 or 9 wins is enough to justify any player having the 'best' season when the bottom line is winning.
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If I were to guess amongst those 3 guys, who would have the better NFL career, I'd bank on McFadden. Colt has done everything worthy to win the Heismann though.
 
chasyone said:
Brennan wont win it cause of the competition level he plays against. Its not his fault but thats the way it is.Thats why Tomlinson didnt win it those years he rushed for over 2000 yds, he played at TCU(wac).Thats why I say Tebow will win it.
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Right. Hawaii has played no one all year. People who don't pay attention think Boise is good. Aside from Hawaii Boise played all terrible teams and they lost to a 4-9 Washington team. Basically a 4-9 Washington team is right on par with Boise and Hawaii. Washington is a terrible PAC Ten team this year and was 2-7 in PAC.
 
Captain Spaulding said:
Tebow has 3 losses, not nearly the passing yards, and only one challenging victory on the season (9/23 against Miss). What have you done for me lately? 3 TD's against Florida Atl. and Florida St. isn't nearly as impressive as 5 TD's against both Boise St. and Washngton.
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Tebow had 4 TD's against Florida Atlantic (three passing and one rushing) and 5 TD's against Florida State (three passing and one rushing). 51 TD's for 2007. Stats for 2006 really don't matter. The Heisman is not a career achievement award. Without Tebow, Florida probably loses another 2 or 3 games. Without Brennan, Hawaii continues to win big.
 
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Dear FBG,

The Heisman Trophy is overrated. It did nothing for my NFL career

Sincerely,

Gino Torretta

GEICO Insurance

 
Yeah, I stayed up til 3:30am watching that fiasco of a Hawaii-UW game because if Hawaii lost, the Clemson Tigers possibly could have met Georgia in the Sugar Bowl. Hawaii would be a 6-6 team in any real conference. Sure, give Brennan the Heisman - he'll just be another poser QB that wins the trophy based on inflated stats against inferior teams - i.e. Andre Ware. Of course, don't pay any attention to me - I'm tired and I'm bitter.

 
As much as I like McFadden, you can't deny Tebow.

Tebow will get it.

Colt Brennan certainly gets an honorable mention here, but he is a perfect example of being a product of the system. Timmy Chang had a similar career at Hawaii under June Jones.

 
There's definitely no runaway winner this year. It may turn out to the be the closest Heisman voting yet. I see McFadden finishing 3rd. It will probably come down to Tebow and Brennan. Tebow based on the 20/20 scoring record, and Brennan because of his team going unbeaten. And just to add to Brennan's case, there have been plenty of wide open spread scoring teams led by good college QBs that have put up phenomenal #s. But very few have gone unbeaten. Leading a team to an unbeated season imo trumps all else, no matter who theyve played. But the level of competition certainly adds alot to the argument. But just look at West Virginia's loss last night to Pitt. They were the 2nd ranked team in the country and an overwhelming favorite, but they still lost the game. Brennan's team didnt lose. Any team can lose any given week. Hawaii won them all. And Brennan was the primary reason.

 
Anyone think Mcfadden will win because he is the top RB? Seems like there's several QB candidates, I could see the voting involving QB's having a bit less of a consensus, and I could see a scenario in which Mcfadden gets less #1 votes than someone, but wins the trophy.

I don't really have a strong feeling about anyone, but I am not a fan of voting for pass-happy QB's, playing in crappy conferences. I'd vote Tebow, I think.

 
Tebow

Among the more interesting stats to me is that he completed nearly 70% of his passes.

Brennan looks like the real deal to me, folks. I think he'll make a good NFL Qb.

 
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I'm not kidding when I say that anyway thinks Brennan deserves consideration shouldn't even be talking about college football.

Brennan has played worse against THE EASIEST SCHEDULE IN THE HISTORY OF THE BCS (that's fact, not opinion) than Tebow has done against the 3rd toughest schedule in the nation. Hawaii is an awful team that would lose 8 games in a major conference. They went into overtime with one of the worst teams in D1 in a Louisiana Tech team that literally has not been competetive with a BCS conference team in 15 years despite scheduling 3 of them per year. A winless SEC team blew out that La Tech team 27-0. Washington, the worst team in the Pac 10, is a better team than both Boise and Hawaii. They dominated Boise and it took an erroneous call by a totally out of position official and a fluke kicked ball for Hawaii to beat that last place Pac 10 team at home, at night. It's a crime that Hawaii is even ranked in the top 25. That Washington team is the 9th toughest team on everyone else's schedule.

Those talking about how he got injured and that led to his team falling behind and him coming back in and leading them back only prove my point. He got hit in the nuts on a 3rd down (they officially reported it as he "got the wind knocked out of him") that they didn't pick up so they had to punt, and was back in the first play of their next drive. He didn't even miss a play. Watch a game people.

 
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FWIW, Vegas has the following odds:

Tebow 1.2:1

Mcfadden 5:1

Daniel 25:1

Hart 50:1

Ryan 50:1

White 50:1

Dixon 50:1

Woodson 50:1

Brennan 50:1

As much flack as the heisman voters get, at least they pay more attention to college ball than shark pool voters.

 
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krameruf said:
Captain Spaulding said:
I watched the Hawaii/Wash game this morning (taped it from last night). I didn't realize Hawaii was down 21 - 0 to Washington in first quarter. Brennan got injured in first quarter. Then half way into the 2nd quarter it was 27-7. Hawaii won Amazing comeback, that's what Heismann winners do.
Click to expand...
Heisman winners accomplish things against real teams. They don't pad stats vs terrible teams.
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Washington is no worse than some of the Big-12 fodder that Chase Daniel got to feast upon.
 
Captain Spaulding said:
Tebow has 3 losses, not nearly the passing yards, and only one challenging victory on the season (9/23 against Miss). What have you done for me lately? 3 TD's against Florida Atl. and Florida St. isn't nearly as impressive as 5 TD's against both Boise St. and Washngton.
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:obc: Tebow had 9 TDs in those two games, and as bad as they are Florida Atlantic and Florida State are superior to Washington and Boise State (and ANYONE on Hawaii's entire schedule). Don't get me started on the rest of the schedule.
 
FreeBaGeL said:
I'm not kidding when I say that anyway thinks Brennan deserves consideration shouldn't even be talking about college football.Brennan has played worse against THE EASIEST SCHEDULE IN THE HISTORY OF THE BCS (that's fact, not opinion) than Tebow has done against the 3rd toughest schedule in the nation. Hawaii is an awful team that would lose 8 games in a major conference. They went into overtime with one of the worst teams in D1 in a Louisiana Tech team that literally has not been competetive with a BCS conference team in 15 years despite scheduling 3 of them per year. A winless SEC team blew out that La Tech team 27-0. Washington, the worst team in the Pac 10, is a better team than both Boise and Hawaii. They dominated Boise and it took an erroneous call by a totally out of position official and a fluke kicked ball for Hawaii to beat that last place Pac 10 team at home, at night. It's a crime that Hawaii is even ranked in the top 25. That Washington team is the 9th toughest team on everyone else's schedule.Those talking about how he got injured and that led to his team falling behind and him coming back in and leading them back only prove my point. He got hit in the nuts on a 3rd down (they officially reported it as he "got the wind knocked out of him") that they didn't pick up so they had to punt, and was back in the first play of their next drive. He didn't even miss a play. Watch a game people.
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I completely agree. Not to mention that Hawaii's schedule was cupcake, but also they only played 2 teams with winning records.
 
Schedule strength of the top 4 Heisman candidates:

Tebow - 9th

Daniel - 24th

McFadden - 64th

Brennan - 137th

Bonus: Kevin Smith - 105th

As for Brennan playing poor competition, there are at least 16 I-AA teams with higher strength of schedule than Hawaii.

 
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Yeah, I'm not a Tebow fan (and think the coverage of him is nauseating), but even I will admit that he will win the Heisman. I think McFadden will be second, somewhat close. Dixon probably third.

I like Brennen, but I agree that his SoS was weak compared to Tebow and McFadden. Put either of those two in Brennen's place, and they would probably AVERAGE 6 TDs a game. Swap Brennen with either of them and up against SEC teams, and he'd be just your above average QB IMO...

 
Fallerjw said:
Not even a mention of RB Kevin Smith. 2,448 yards and 30 TDs
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:coffee: He won't win it but I'll bet he has a much better NFL career than all of the front runners for the award,if he returns for his senior season(which I doubt) he'll break most of the NCAA rushing records. If you haven't seen him play yet catch The Libery Bowl on the 29th,he's a keeper.
 
Fallerjw said:
Not even a mention of RB Kevin Smith. 2,448 yards and 30 TDs
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:hangover: I would just like him to be there in NYC on Saturday, especially since the Joke Walker voters completely snubbed him but putting Ray Rice and Mike Hart in there this year.
 
Lets not forget that Brennan is a Senior and Tebow is a Sophmore. There are politics involved in voting for the Heisman. They only give it to an underclassman if they are head and sholders above the other candidates or were in Heisman consideration the year prior. Since Brennan broke all statistical records last year, it put him on the radar for the voters. This year he proved his worth by demonstrating that he is a winner and pullout the tough victories, along with another great QB stat season. Strenght of schedule is used moreso for BCS rankings/bowl consideration not Heisman consideration.

 
Captain Spaulding said:
Lets not forget that Brennan is a Senior and Tebow is a Sophmore. There are politics involved in voting for the Heisman. They only give it to an underclassman if they are head and sholders above the other candidates or were in Heisman consideration the year prior. Since Brennan broke all statistical records last year, it put him on the radar for the voters. This year he proved his worth by demonstrating that he is a winner and pullout the tough victories, along with another great QB stat season. Strenght of schedule is used moreso for BCS rankings/bowl consideration not Heisman consideration.
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You can feel that Brenan should win it but he realistically has no chance at all.
 
Tebow IS a sophomore, correct? Anyone recall the last time a sophopmore won the award?? I'll take that one off the air. And I dont know why, but for whatever reason, class seems to factor into Heisman voting. Not saying its right, just saying it is.

 
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dont forget the impact of nobody ever seeing Brennan play. This plays a big role in Heisman voting, often why its called an East Coast Bias award. Nobody is staying up til 2 am on a friday or saturday night to watch Colt Brennan against Lousiana LaFayette or whatever other cupcake schools they play

 
Captain Spaulding said:
Lets not forget that Brennan is a Senior and Tebow is a Sophmore. There are politics involved in voting for the Heisman. They only give it to an underclassman if they are head and sholders above the other candidates or were in Heisman consideration the year prior. Since Brennan broke all statistical records last year, it put him on the radar for the voters. This year he proved his worth by demonstrating that he is a winner and pullout the tough victories, along with another great QB stat season. Strenght of schedule is used moreso for BCS rankings/bowl consideration not Heisman consideration.
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Didnt see this before I just posted, but thats the point. Tebow is a soph and those guys just havent won this particular award. So, :unsure: .
 
Loopdog said:
dont forget the impact of nobody ever seeing Brennan play. This plays a big role in Heisman voting, often why its called an East Coast Bias award. Nobody is staying up til 2 am on a friday or saturday night to watch Colt Brennan against Lousiana LaFayette or whatever other cupcake schools they play
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If people stayed up to watch every Hawaii game they wouldn't be ranked in the top 25 at all, so count your chickens that some don't.
 
I didn't realize Tebow was only a sophomore. It seems like he's been around a lot longer. Maybe McFadden gets it, but it'll be close.

 
Captain Spaulding said:
Strenght of schedule is used moreso for BCS rankings/bowl consideration not Heisman consideration.
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Do you really believe this?Brennan threw for 4174 yards vs. Daniel's 4170. Brennan's 38 TDs vs. Daniel's 33. Nearly identical numbers there, except for Brennan's SOS 137th vs. Daniel's 24th.Brennan's numbers are akin to playing Madden on Rookie level when Chase Daniel has been doing it on All-Pro. Of course there are politics involved in the voting - that's why Brennan's lack of quality opponents and lack of TV time will keep him out of the top 3.
 
krameruf said:
Captain Spaulding said:
I watched the Hawaii/Wash game this morning (taped it from last night). I didn't realize Hawaii was down 21 - 0 to Washington in first quarter. Brennan got injured in first quarter. Then half way into the 2nd quarter it was 27-7. Hawaii won Amazing comeback, that's what Heismann winners do.
Click to expand...
Heisman winners accomplish things against real teams. They don't pad stats vs terrible teams.
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In terms of what the Heisman has represented over the years and decades, your guy doesn't stand a chance. Nor should he. Brennan all the way. Next time, don't have a national championship "contending" team QB lose three times with only one quality win and then come talk about his amazing stats against teams that were simply overpowered by a team tiers ahead of them in overall talent.Brennan after last night. In a year without a clear clear winner, he suddenly looks like a pretty good bet for the Heisman right now.
 
I stand by it - Brennan. Let the hype begin. Shoo in come Heisman day.

(but seriously, as long as Tebow doesnt get it. I can't think of someone more "meh" in terms of a heisman than a QB who compiled stats against teams that were tiers under the Gators in terms of talent while losing too many games anyway)

 
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