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Help me with the definition of a term. (1 Viewer)

Mr. Ected

Mr. Ected

Footballguy
Read the article below about Kellyanne Conway on Meet the Press and her creation of the term 'alternative facts.' She is referring to this appearance by the new Press Secretary yesterday.

Kellyanne Conway: WH Spokesman Gave ‘Alternative Facts’ on Inauguration Crowd
by ALEXANDRA JAFFE


Kellyanne Conway, counselor to President Donald Trump, said the White House press secretary gave "alternative facts" when he inaccurately described the inauguration crowd as "the largest ever" during his first appearance before the press this weekend.

White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer gathered the press to deliver a five-minute statement Saturday in which he issued multiple falsehoods, declaring erroneously the number of people who used the D.C. metro on Friday, that there was a change in security measures this year and that "this was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration, period, both in person and around the globe."

"These attempts to lessen the enthusiasm of the inauguration are shameful and wrong," Spicer said Saturday.

However, crowd size experts told the New York Times they estimated Trump's audience at fewer than 200,000 people, and widely distributed side-by-side photographs showed the stark contrast between the comparatively sparse crowd for Trump's inauguration and the record-setting crowd for Obama's first.

Asked on "Meet the Press" why Spicer used his first appearance before the press to dispute a minimal issue like the inauguration crowd size, and why he used falsehoods to do so, Conway pushed back.

"You're saying it's a falsehood and Sean Spicer, our press secretary, gave alternative facts to that," she told NBC's Chuck Todd.

She then went on to echo Spicer's claim on Saturday that it wasn't possible to count the count, despite Trump's team's accompanying insistence that it was the "largest audience."

"I don't think you can prove those numbers one way or another. There's no way to quantify crowd numbers," Conway said.

Conway also suggested that Todd's insistence on asking why Spicer delivered a demonstrably false statement could affect the White House's treatment of the media.

"If we're going to keep referring to the press secretary in those types of terms I think we're going to have to rethink our relationship here," she said.

Help me understand what 'Alternative Facts' means. Anyone?
Click to expand...
 
Walking Boot said:
Remember when that Obama administration official said "We made up that thing about keeping your doctor if you liked him, because the American people are stupid and believe everything we tell them"? 

The Trump administration is experimenting with finding the absolute limits of that theory. 
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Stupidity of American people is a moot point. This is about the person whose job it is is to relay information from the President to the American People was caught LYING on his FIRST try and it was brushed off by the President's staff.

 
It's pretty clear what she meant by it.  There are many different metrics and facts one could use to estimate crowd size.  So Spicer came out and didn't just use a picture comparison, but also used metro usage, tv ratings, etc.  He got his facts wrong, but that is a different story.

But I'm sure the media and some folks in here will create the narrative that "alternative facts" means something much more sinister. 

 
Higgs said:
It's pretty clear what she meant by it.  There are many different metrics and facts one could use to estimate crowd size.  So Spicer came out and didn't just use a picture comparison, but also used metro usage, tv ratings, etc.  He got his facts wrong, but that is a different story.

But I'm sure the media and some folks in here will create the narrative that "alternative facts" means something much more sinister. 
Click to expand...


nah- "alternative facts" is all puppy dog tails and whatnot.

this all could/should have a been an absolute non-issue if Trump had just ignored the smaller crowd size comments and dunno... publicly focused on other things. important things... on his first presser as potus. and then perpetuated by his press secretary.  but instead, this is what we're talking about instead of policy. as somebody on ACA, I'd like to know what's going to happen to my insurance. but yeah- "alternative facts" are good too I suppose.

 
Mr. Ected said:
"You're saying it's a falsehood and Sean Spicer, our press secretary, gave alternative facts to that," she told NBC's Chuck Todd.
Click to expand...
This makes it sound like it went down like this...

Spicer: Biggest inauguration crowd ever. 

Press: Uh, no it wasn't. Here are the facts. 

Spicer: Yes, but there are other alternative facts to consider. 

And then I assume he presented something. So, that paragraph seems like the "alternative facts" were things presented in response to facts used to shoot down his claim. It's like saying "what you say might be true but have you considered these alternatives?"

Or they're just making #### up. 

 
dgreen said:
Mr. Ected said:
"You're saying it's a falsehood and Sean Spicer, our press secretary, gave alternative facts to that," she told NBC's Chuck Todd.
Click to expand...
This makes it sound like it went down like this...

Spicer: Biggest inauguration crowd ever. 

Press: Uh, no it wasn't. Here are the facts. 

Spicer: Yes, but there are other alternative facts to consider. 

And then I assume he presented something. So, that paragraph seems like the "alternative facts" were things presented in response to facts used to shoot down his claim. It's like saying "what you say might be true but have you considered these alternatives?"

Or they're just making #### up. 
Click to expand...
Spicer didn't say 'alternative facts.' A bigwig in the White House (Former Campaign Manager - Conway) used that term when she was confronted with questions about Spicer's statements. The statements were easily disproved and she said they had 'alternative facts.' Basically 'We read them one way, you read them another.'

The end result is either the WH is lying, making stuff up, or unable to get things straight. All of which is bad news...

 
El Floppo said:
nah- "alternative facts" is all puppy dog tails and whatnot.

this all could/should have a been an absolute non-issue if Trump had just ignored the smaller crowd size comments and dunno... publicly focused on other things. important things... on his first presser as potus. and then perpetuated by his press secretary.  but instead, this is what we're talking about instead of policy. as somebody on ACA, I'd like to know what's going to happen to my insurance. but yeah- "alternative facts" are good too I suppose.
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When avoiding Chuck Todd's question, Kellyanne gave a perfectly reasonable explanation for the crowd size. 

Its just too bad our President is too immature to give a similar answer. And instead had to resort to lies. Which is what alternative facts are. Not whatever Higgs said.

 
Higgs said:
It's pretty clear what she meant by it.  There are many different metrics and facts one could use to estimate crowd size.  So Spicer came out and didn't just use a picture comparison, but also used metro usage, tv ratings, etc.  He got his facts wrong, but that is a different story.

But I'm sure the media and some folks in here will create the narrative that "alternative facts" means something much more sinister. 
Click to expand...
One big issue is the fact that he said things that just weren't true, and easily disprovable. He stated that this was the first inauguration that had magnetometers at the gates and had ground covering, both of which he stated would affect the crowd turn-out and appearance. The ground cover was used in the 2013 inauguration, and the Secret Service stated there were none. (They should know!)

He also said “We know that 420,000 people used the D.C. public transit yesterday, which actually compares to 317,000 who used it for President Obama’s last inaugural.” Again, false and easily disprovable. From VanityFair 'CNN and The Washington Post confirmed Metro ridership with the agency. The full day of Trump’s inauguration prompted 570,557 trips in the system. Obama’s first inauguration drew 1.1 million trips, and Obama’s second inauguration drew 782,000 trips.

If you are going to say stuff publicly make sure it is close to being true or correct. In this day and age, people have the ability to find stuff out!!!

Reg Lllama of Brixton said:
My Chicago Bears did not lose 13 games.  They had 13 alternative wins.
Click to expand...
GO BEARS!!! 13 alternative wins is awesome! Going to steal that! ;)

 
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Higgs said:
It's pretty clear what she meant by it.  There are many different metrics and facts one could use to estimate crowd size.  So Spicer came out and didn't just use a picture comparison, but also used metro usage, tv ratings, etc.  He got his facts wrong, but that is a different story.

But I'm sure the media and some folks in here will create the narrative that "alternative facts" means something much more sinister. 
Click to expand...
He didn't get his facts wrong, he flat out lied. And this morning Joy Reid on her show called him out on it.

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/01/watch-joy-reid-eviscerate-sean-spicer-how-are-we-supposed-to-trust-anything-you-say-at-all/

Watch Joy Reid eviscerate Sean Spicer: ‘How are we supposed to trust anything you say at all?’

SNBC host Joy Reid took Trump Press Secretary Sean Spicer to the woodshed Sunday morning, breaking down the blatant falsehoods he made during a controversial and much-criticized appearance before the media late Saturday.

While much of the criticism on Sunday turned to Donald Trump’s senior counsel, Kellyanne Conway, for defending Spicer, the AM Joy host reminded viewers that it was Spicer who turned the new president’s first complete day in office into a master class in creating needless controversy over trivial matters.

Using aerial photos from both Trump’s Friday inauguration and ex-President Barack Obama’s 2009 inauguration as well as official numbers from local government agencies on Metro ridership and television ratings, Reid went point-by-point over Spicer’s claim it was the “most viewed inauguration ever.'”

“You don’t even need to just trust your eyes, there’s also this,” Reid stated. “Numbers. According to the D.C. Metro as reported by the Washington Post, ‘570,557 took trips on the system throughout the entire day on Inauguration Day.’ Okay? The system saw 1.1 million trips on the same day in 2009. The number of television viewers has also dropped, according to Neilson from 2009, a 20 percent drop —  apples to apples.”

“In other words, Mr. Spicer, not the ‘largest number of people who viewed an inaugural, period,'” she lectured, mocking his use of “period” when he bullied reporters on Saturday. “Not even close. And if you would lie to our faces about something that is as ultimately trivial as how many people watched your boss’ inaugural, how are we supposed to trust you when you walk out on that podium and give some grave and important statement about the nation’s national security? How are we supposed to trust anything that you say at all?”

 
dgreen said:
This makes it sound like it went down like this...

Spicer: Biggest inauguration crowd ever. 

Press: Uh, no it wasn't. Here are the facts. 

Spicer: Yes, but there are other alternative facts to consider. 

And then I assume he presented something. So, that paragraph seems like the "alternative facts" were things presented in response to facts used to shoot down his claim. It's like saying "what you say might be true but have you considered these alternatives?"

Or they're just making #### up. 
Click to expand...
Did he say biggest inauguration crowd or did he say most watched inauguration?

 
Short Corner said:
dgreen said:
This makes it sound like it went down like this...

Spicer: Biggest inauguration crowd ever. 

Press: Uh, no it wasn't. Here are the facts. 

Spicer: Yes, but there are other alternative facts to consider. 

And then I assume he presented something. So, that paragraph seems like the "alternative facts" were things presented in response to facts used to shoot down his claim. It's like saying "what you say might be true but have you considered these alternatives?"

Or they're just making #### up. 
Click to expand...
Did he say biggest inauguration crowd or did he say most watched inauguration?
Click to expand...
In typical fashion, he kinda said both...

From VanityFair article...

“This was the largest audience to witness an inauguration, period. Both in person and around the globe.”


The aforementioned crowd size estimates, aerial photographs, and Metro ridership reveal Spicer’s claim of “in person” to be false. As for “around the globe” numbers, Spicer didn’t offer specifics.

TV ratings agency Neislen said 30.6 million U.S. viewers turned in for Trump’s inaugural—a figure higher than audiences for President George W. Bush and President George H.W. Bush, but lower than Obama’s 38 million viewers in 2009, and than President Ronald Reagan’s 42 million viewers in 1981. Perhaps Spicer has evidence more foreigners tuned in for Trump, but he hasn’t revealed it.
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Using "alternate facts" to spin how many people come to your party is so dumb :lol:

Tell you what Donald, the most people who have ever assembled in public in the history of time came. You can move onto other topics. 

 
tommyboy said:
I don't. Do you? See this is what they do. They distract you on meaningless quibble and then no one pays attention to the real stuff
Click to expand...
Nobody does, except Donald. 

This strategy, if that's what it is,won't work when he actually has real decisions to make will it? 

 
anyone else excited to parse every single word that an entire group of people says for the next 4 years????
 

I KNOW I AM!

(yes, i know, it's no different than the last thousands of years or whatever)

 
Higgs said:
It's pretty clear what she meant by it.  There are many different metrics and facts one could use to estimate crowd size.  So Spicer came out and didn't just use a picture comparison, but also used metro usage, tv ratings, etc.  He got his facts wrong, but that is a different story.

But I'm sure the media and some folks in here will create the narrative that "alternative facts" means something much more sinister. 
Click to expand...
He used "alternative facts" that weren't facts at all.

Therefore, he was either lying intentionally (most likely) or he and whoever else put together those "alternative facts" is completely incompetent.

Although I would be willing to entertain the possibility that it was due to both lying and incompetence.

 
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