Here's what I would do with Michael Vick (1 Viewer)

[Voice Of Reason]

I agree!

I also would go  5 wide and send them all on fly patterns. that would take at least 6-7 defenders down the field. If Vick runs he would only have to beat 2 guys on that side of the field and when he got by them it would be clear sailing for at least 20 yards.

If Vick does not run he is basically useless.

Yep. Unfortunately, none of what we want will ever happen.For some reason, guys like Vick and McNabb and Brooks find it to be some sort of insult to be known as a "running QB." They just HAVE to stay in the pocket and show us that they are Dan Marino. Well, I hope each of them enjoys watching the '05 NFL playoffs.

Part is insult, but part is longevity. Running gets you beat up and shortens your career. Of course if you fail as a QB your career will be short too.

I think you could make an argument that a running QB in an option style offense is no more likely, perhaps even less likely, to miss significant time due to injury than a straight drop back passer. From the pocket QBs get hurt easily because they have to open themselves up and cannot brace for a hit, however, when running the QB can brace for the blow and not take the hit head on.

Would there be anyway to track the injury history of college QBs in drop back offenses vs running teams?

 

[Sigfawn]

I really like how they are using Vick. Everytime he fakes the hand off out of the shotgun, he isn't purely running. He's mostly rolling out in a pass/run option, whatever he feels is open, he takes. If the DE/OLB play the boot, Dunn has huge cut back lanes. It's very hard to defend the Falcons without lots of speed. Otherwise your DE has to chase vick on every handoff, regardless if he boots it or not. You just can't recover in time if you realize Vick still has the ball. Which is also why I was high on Norwood. Vick is a dream QB for RBs. It makes it so easy to cut back with the zone blocking. There's no DE sliding down on you, he's chasing Vick. I've seen Vick get hit after handing it off to the RB normally. When that Denver run system is rolling, and the DE/LB spy are following Vick, it's almost not fair.

I didn't see the game, but from this description, it sounds like Atlanta is running a near-perfect copy of the Denver Bootleg/Cutback offense. Playfake, roll out. If the DE pursues the QB, start turning those fakes into real handoffs, and when the DE follows the QB it cuts off all backside pursuit and leads to bigger gains. When the DE starts keying to the runningback, then you switch from runs back to fakes, get your QB outside of the DE when he pursues the RB, and roll him outside. At that point, you'll either have single-coverage on your WR deep, or else you'll have an LB covering the TE shallow. Either the LB maintains coverage and the QB can run, or else the LB comes up to stop the run and the QB can dump it right over top to the TE, who gets a 12-15 yard gain.Is this really what Atlanta is running? Because my experience with the college option offense is limited to the University of Florida under Urban Meyer, and that's not at all similar to what I just described. My experience with the college option is similar to what Shick's describing- the QB comes around the corner with a pitchman in tow, waits for the defenders to commit, and then either cuts it inside or pitches it outside.

The Falcons are mostly running the option from the shotgun. I'm not even sure you can call it an option offense. It's more a spread offense where the QB can hand off, stay in the pocket, roll out to pass after the play action, roll out to run after the play action, or roll out with a pass/run option.I agree with the other poster, it's similar to what VY ran. Now they aren't doing this a ton. I'd guess they probably ran 15 players in this formation. But it was obvious the Bucs didn't have an answer. Norwood/Dunn were killing them. And when the DE tried to slide down the line, Vick was simply too fast to contain, and he'd jog for 10+ yards without being touched. I'm not sure using the Tampa 2 is the best defense, so they were exposed. The DE/OLB simply have to key on Vick, otherwise if you take 1 step in the wrong direction, he's gone.The problem is if Dunn/Norwood are gashing you for 7-8 yards a carry, along with that zone blocking scheme, you just can't have a LB/DE chase Vick on a handoff while Dunn runs right by you. From what I've seen, ATL is much more willing to have Vick run. Last year, it was mostly broken plays. And they were comfortable with that amount of risk of injury. This year, they are running way more run/pass roll outs. Which is exactly what they should do, the falcon line is below average at pass blocking. But it does seem like Mora is going to let Vick be Vick, and play for 2006. I've never seen Vick run that much, that successfully against the Bucs. They're really one of the few teams I've seen contain him. Teams just don't rush for 300 yards on the Bucs. But that shotgun option they ran, was devastating. And I'm really not sure how you can defend it. I watched the tampa DEs constantly chasing the wrong person. If you play Vick, Dunn cuts it back right past the DE. If you play Dunn, Vick blows by the DE and he's in the open field. This Denver running system is really clicking now. The o-line has been dominating. Norwood looks very fast, very strong. I'd wager this offense has very little to do with the WCO. It's really the denver rush system merged with a spread option. They are going downfield far more (which is Vicks passing strength, the deep ball) which is extremely scary. If ATL didn't miss 4 FGs, they would have blown out both the panthers and bucs back to back. That's simply something teams don't do. As always, the Falcons problems aren't on the offensive side. Hopefully the defense can keep it up. I'm still not sold on the run defense.

 

[WhoDat]

The formal name of that offense is a Zone Read. As it has been stated, it is not an option offense to be confused with anything once employed by Nebraska or Oklahoma. Two...completely...different...packages. Vick or any other NFL QB would get killed running a traditional option week in and out...killed.

It is the same package that is ran by Texas and WVU. The QB's call is predicated on what the DE does or does not do pre-snap. If the DE is down, then the QB sprints out with an option to tuck and run (himself) or pass. If the DE is up, then the QB opts to hand the ball to the RB for a quick hit inside.

 

[CalBear]

Again, allow me to refer you to 2002, when Michael Vick was a GREAT NFL QB. And yes, that means an above-average passer, too.

Allow me to refer you to 1997, when Kordell Stewart was a GREAT NFL QB.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

The formal name of that offense is a Zone Read. As it has been stated, it is not an option offense to be confused with anything once employed by Nebraska or Oklahoma. Two...completely...different...packages. Vick or any other NFL QB would get killed running a traditional option week in and out...killed. It is the same package that is ran by Texas and WVU. The QB's call is predicated on what the DE does or does not do pre-snap. If the DE is down, then the QB sprints out with an option to tuck and run (himself) or pass. If the DE is up, then the QB opts to hand the ball to the RB for a quick hit inside.

My understanding was that the QB made the read during the play. He goes to hand the ball to the HB, while watching the weakside DE. If he pinches down strongside, the QB pulls the ball back and rolls out, if the DE stays home, the QB releases the ball to the RB. I don't think the read is pre-snap.

 

[WhoDat]

The formal name of that offense is a Zone Read. As it has been stated, it is not an option offense to be confused with anything once employed by Nebraska or Oklahoma. Two...completely...different...packages. Vick or any other NFL QB would get killed running a traditional option week in and out...killed. It is the same package that is ran by Texas and WVU. The QB's call is predicated on what the DE does or does not do pre-snap. If the DE is down, then the QB sprints out with an option to tuck and run (himself) or pass. If the DE is up, then the QB opts to hand the ball to the RB for a quick hit inside.

My understanding was that the QB made the read during the play. He goes to hand the ball to the HB, while watching the weakside DE. If he pinches down strongside, the QB pulls the ball back and rolls out, if the DE stays home, the QB releases the ball to the RB. I don't think the read is pre-snap.

Yes and yes.He has a pre-snap read and has a reaction read at/after snap.

 

[Kleck]

Is this really what Atlanta is running? Because my experience with the college option offense is limited to the University of Florida under Urban Meyer, and that's not at all similar to what I just described. My experience with the college option is similar to what Shick's describing- the QB comes around the corner with a pitchman in tow, waits for the defenders to commit, and then either cuts it inside or pitches it outside.

As mentioned by many others, the Falcons are running an option very similar to what Texas ran with Vince Young. Not at all like we saw out of the Barry Switzer wishbone offense.

 

[Raider Nation]

The Saints held Reuben Droughns to 27 yards on 11 carries in week 1.

Then they held Ahman Green to 42 yards on 16 carries last week.

Granted, Droughns and Green are not Tomlinson and Alexander, but that was two pretty impressive efforts by their run defense. Are they equipped to deal with Vick and Dunn on Monday night? Maybe with the emotion of the evening, they can get a lead and take Atlanta out of their running game.

I'm playing against Dunn.... :(

From NFL.com:

(Sept. 20, 2006) -- Another semblance of normalcy returns to New Orleans on Monday night.

For the first time since the devastation brought on by Hurricane Katrina, the Superdome hosts a football game when the New Orleans Saints meet the Atlanta Falcons in a matchup of 2-0 NFC South rivals.

Monday's contest will mark the home debuts of quarterback Drew Brees and running back Reggie Bush. Brees, signed as a free agent from San Diego, has completed 59.2 percent of his passes for 523 yards in leading the Saints to their best start since going 3-0 in 2002.

Brees overcame three early turnovers and was 26-of-41 for 353 yards with two scores Sunday in a 34-27 win over Green Bay.

"We really shot ourselves in the foot, but we were able to come back and overcome it, which really says a lot about this team," he said.

Bush had only six carries for five yards, but caught eight passes for 68 yards in the victory. In two games, the star rookie running back has accounted for 26.4 percent of New Orleans' rushing and receiving yards.

Bush is second on the team with 21 carries for 72 yards, and he leads New Orleans with 15 receptions for 120 yards. He is also averaging 8.3 yards per punt return.

"He's been willing to learn," McAllister said of the No. 2 pick in the draft. "Anytime you get a guy coming in with as much hype as Reggie has had with him ... then it's kind of refreshing as a veteran player to be able to help him."

The Saints' rushing defense is tied with Pittsburgh's for sixth-best in the league at 74.0 yards per game. New Orleans will have its hands full in trying to stop the Falcons' ground game, which is coming off a record-setting day.

In a 14-3 win over Tampa Bay on Sunday, the Falcons rushed for a team-record 306 yards. Warrick Dunn led Atlanta with 21 carries for 134 yards, while quarterback Michael Vick had 14 rushes for 127 yards.

"I don't think any defense can stop us," Dunn said.

The pair has helped carry Atlanta (2-0) to the league's top rushing average at 279.0 yards per game, and the Falcons have 25 carries of at least 10 yards. Dunn leads the league with 266 rushing yards but has yet to score, while Vick posted the sixth 100-yard rushing game of his career.

"When you have Mike going one way and the backs going another way, they're going to have to respect Mike," Dunn said. "If those guys don't respect him, he's going to gain a lot of yards on the backside. If they do respect him, that's just one less guy we have to worry about."

Vick, though, has completed only 54.1 percent of his passes (20-for-37) for 232 yards. That may be enough for the Falcons, though, who are 16-6 against the Saints since 1995.

The Falcons defense has been just as impressive as the offense, limiting opponents to nine points -- fourth-fewest in the league.

 

[SSOG]

Again, allow me to refer you to 2002, when Michael Vick was a GREAT NFL QB. And yes, that means an above-average passer, too.

Allow me to refer you to 1997, when Kordell Stewart was a GREAT NFL QB.

What does that have to do with anything? The guy said that Vick would never be a great QB. Vick has already BEEN a great quarterback, averaging 7 yards per pass attempt and a 2:1 TD:INT ratio (which I would certainly consider "above-average" as a passer). That sort of blows the whole "Vick will never be a great quarterback" theory out of the water, now doesn't it?What does Kordell Stewart have to do with anything?

 

[Capella]

Nice call RN. But I'm pretty sure NFL defenses will scheme an answer for this a lot quicker than Maryland or East Carolina will.

I'd be shocked if this works long-term. Good idea to break it out against the Bucs though. <_<

 

[Borat]

Again, allow me to refer you to 2002, when Michael Vick was a GREAT NFL QB. And yes, that means an above-average passer, too.

Allow me to refer you to 1997, when Kordell Stewart was a GREAT NFL QB.

What does that have to do with anything? The guy said that Vick would never be a great QB. Vick has already BEEN a great quarterback, averaging 7 yards per pass attempt and a 2:1 TD:INT ratio (which I would certainly consider "above-average" as a passer). That sort of blows the whole "Vick will never be a great quarterback" theory out of the water, now doesn't it?What does Kordell Stewart have to do with anything?

Sorry to jump in halfway through the debate, but are you seriously trying to state that Vick was a "great" quarterback the year he threw 16 TD passes, completed less than 55% of his passes, and threw for less than 3,000 yards?Come on, SSOG. You're better than that.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

That said, the option isn't run in the NFL because the LBs and Safeties are just too darn fast. THere is no way the QB could make the corner consistently enough to make it work. No way.

Exactly. Another very good reason the old-style option is not run in the NFL is that in order for it to work well...in order to sell it...the qb needs to hold the ball until the very last instant to get the DE or LB on that side to committ. This usually means taking a nasty hit. Doing this over and over in the NFL, a qb, esp one the size and durability of Vick, would last probably 2 or 3 drives, tops.The Zone-Read they are running on a limited basis is much safer and is a step in the right direction for Vick and the Falcons' offense. The qb doesn't have to draw the defender all the way in order to sell the play. He just has to hold the ball in the gut of the rb until the DE commits one way or the other. If the DE commits to the QB, he hands off to the rb, who then has no DE to contend with. The DE doesn't hit the qb. Neither does anyone else, because it's a handoff, not a pitch. If the DE stays at home, the qb keeps, and he doesn't have to worry about the DE. If they continue to have the running success they're enjoying right now, they'll have plenty of deep ball opportunities upcoming as defense start to crowd the line more and more in an effort to stop the run.Vick will have room to run with the zone read if he runs it right and gets more and more comfortable with it. As long as he keeps his head on a swivel, slides when appropriate, and gets ob whenever possible, he should be okay.

 

[SSOG]

Again, allow me to refer you to 2002, when Michael Vick was a GREAT NFL QB. And yes, that means an above-average passer, too.

Allow me to refer you to 1997, when Kordell Stewart was a GREAT NFL QB.

What does that have to do with anything? The guy said that Vick would never be a great QB. Vick has already BEEN a great quarterback, averaging 7 yards per pass attempt and a 2:1 TD:INT ratio (which I would certainly consider "above-average" as a passer). That sort of blows the whole "Vick will never be a great quarterback" theory out of the water, now doesn't it?What does Kordell Stewart have to do with anything?

Sorry to jump in halfway through the debate, but are you seriously trying to state that Vick was a "great" quarterback the year he threw 16 TD passes, completed less than 55% of his passes, and threw for less than 3,000 yards?Come on, SSOG. You're better than that.

I said he was an above-average PASSER that season, but that as a quarterback on the whole (i.e. once you factor in his rushing), he was truly great.Completion percentage is an overrated stat, and is more a function of the offense that you run than it is a function of your skills as a QB. If you're throwing it deep every single down, completing even 50% of your passes is a remarkable accomplishment. If every single pass is a screen, completing 70% would be pretty much par for the course. A better statistic is yards per attempt, which normalizes for both completion percentage (incompletions pull down your ypa) as well as pass types (a bunch of rinky-dink passes pull down your ypa, too). I would argue that a QB who completes 50% of his passes, but has every completion go for 15 yards is better than a QB who completes 70% of his passes, but has every completion go for 8 yards.

I won't get into the specifics about how ypa and ypa allowed correlate better to winning than any other simple statistic out there, but let's just say that ypa is the stat to use over comp%, and 7 ypa is a pretty solid season. In terms of adjusted yards per attempt (which is a modified ypa that rewards TDs and penalizes INTs and was optimized by stat geeks to best correlate with quality performance), Vick ranked 8th in the league that season.

Also, for the record, Football Outsiders' DVOA stat says that, on a per-pass basis, Michael Vick was the 9th best passer in the NFL in 2002. Add in his rushing numbers that season and he finished as the 6th most valuable QB in the NFL.

By the way, while he "only" threw for 16 TDs that season, he threw almost as many TDs per pass attempt as Rich "League MVP" Gannon (3.8 TDs/Att compared to 4.2 TDs/Att for Gannon).

 

[Rev]

Short of my option suggestion - which I realize is unrealistic, you know which coach could get the most out of his abilities, IMO? Denny Green. If Arizona ever got their hands on Vick, with Boldin & Fitz at WR and Green's offensive knowledge, that O would be the most scary thing you've ever seen.

Regarding your point about Vick in 2002, isn't it funny how the guy shies away from what made him so great in the first place? Most QBs who cannot run would kill to be able to scramble like him. It would be a badge of honor for them. But Vick seems to want no part of taking off and running anymore. Maybe the leg injury from last year has him fearing his sports mortality.

If Vick went to play for Arizona, Boldin and Fitz' numbers would take a massive hit.

 

[Lauryn]

not sure why this was bumped...

 

[Raider Nation]

not sure why this was bumped...

Because I'm a genius, Santos.Go to bed.... I'll take it from here.

 

[Borat]

Again, allow me to refer you to 2002, when Michael Vick was a GREAT NFL QB. And yes, that means an above-average passer, too.

Allow me to refer you to 1997, when Kordell Stewart was a GREAT NFL QB.

What does that have to do with anything? The guy said that Vick would never be a great QB. Vick has already BEEN a great quarterback, averaging 7 yards per pass attempt and a 2:1 TD:INT ratio (which I would certainly consider "above-average" as a passer). That sort of blows the whole "Vick will never be a great quarterback" theory out of the water, now doesn't it?What does Kordell Stewart have to do with anything?

Sorry to jump in halfway through the debate, but are you seriously trying to state that Vick was a "great" quarterback the year he threw 16 TD passes, completed less than 55% of his passes, and threw for less than 3,000 yards?Come on, SSOG. You're better than that.

I said he was an above-average PASSER that season, but that as a quarterback on the whole (i.e. once you factor in his rushing), he was truly great.Completion percentage is an overrated stat, and is more a function of the offense that you run than it is a function of your skills as a QB. If you're throwing it deep every single down, completing even 50% of your passes is a remarkable accomplishment. If every single pass is a screen, completing 70% would be pretty much par for the course. A better statistic is yards per attempt, which normalizes for both completion percentage (incompletions pull down your ypa) as well as pass types (a bunch of rinky-dink passes pull down your ypa, too). I would argue that a QB who completes 50% of his passes, but has every completion go for 15 yards is better than a QB who completes 70% of his passes, but has every completion go for 8 yards.

I won't get into the specifics about how ypa and ypa allowed correlate better to winning than any other simple statistic out there, but let's just say that ypa is the stat to use over comp%, and 7 ypa is a pretty solid season. In terms of adjusted yards per attempt (which is a modified ypa that rewards TDs and penalizes INTs and was optimized by stat geeks to best correlate with quality performance), Vick ranked 8th in the league that season.

Also, for the record, Football Outsiders' DVOA stat says that, on a per-pass basis, Michael Vick was the 9th best passer in the NFL in 2002. Add in his rushing numbers that season and he finished as the 6th most valuable QB in the NFL.

By the way, while he "only" threw for 16 TDs that season, he threw almost as many TDs per pass attempt as Rich "League MVP" Gannon (3.8 TDs/Att compared to 4.2 TDs/Att for Gannon).

I will cut through the fat and just present you with this question:===========================================================

*Two direct quotes from you:

"I said he was an above-average PASSER that season, but that as a quarterback on the whole (i.e. once you factor in his rushing), he was truly great."

"Add in his rushing numbers that season and he finished as the 6th most valuable QB in the NFL."

===========================================================

...so you think being the 6th most valuable QB in the NFL in any one given season is considered "great?"

Not trying to start a confrontation, as I think this debate is more a matter of perception and semantics, but do wonder what your answer will be...

 

[CalBear]

Again, allow me to refer you to 2002, when Michael Vick was a GREAT NFL QB. And yes, that means an above-average passer, too.

Allow me to refer you to 1997, when Kordell Stewart was a GREAT NFL QB.

What does that have to do with anything? The guy said that Vick would never be a great QB. Vick has already BEEN a great quarterback, averaging 7 yards per pass attempt and a 2:1 TD:INT ratio (which I would certainly consider "above-average" as a passer). That sort of blows the whole "Vick will never be a great quarterback" theory out of the water, now doesn't it?What does Kordell Stewart have to do with anything?

Kordell Stewart had one great statistical year (well, maybe two). He was never a great QB. Vick is a very similar player; Kordell is certainly his closest comparable.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Nice call RN. But I'm pretty sure NFL defenses will scheme an answer for this a lot quicker than Maryland or East Carolina will.I'd be shocked if this works long-term. Good idea to break it out against the Bucs though. <_<

Don't disagree, but they've establshed the threat of it now - meaning that it's one more headache DC's have in preparing for the Falcons.

 

[blenderfrog]

They don't limit their scouting to NFL teams, either. The option, for instance, looks similar to some of the runs used by college powerhouse West Virginia, a team that just happened to rush for 382 yards back in January when the Sugar Bowl was held at the Falcons' home field.

Rich Rodriguez is the head coach at West Virginia. He is generally credited with developing this type of offense(later picked up by Texas and others). Rich Rodriguez was the OC under Tommy Bowden at Tulane in 97-98. In 1998, Shaun King was the QB at Tulane and ran this offense. It was very difficult to stop, and led to Tulane's 12-0 record that year.

Looks like Tulane missed the boat in not hiring Rodriquez as their head coach.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

I'd be shocked if this works long-term. Good idea to break it out against the Bucs though.

The Zone Read play is not Atlanta's base offense. They're mixing it in with the rest of their shotgun package. Defenses don't know when they're gonna run a regular shotgun pass play or run the zone read, from which the can run with the rb, run with the qb, or roll the qb out on a run/throw option. They also still run a lot out of regular running sets.

I think the way they use it (i.e. don't overuse it) will be the key to their success.

While Texas ran the ball almost exclusively out of the Zone Read when Vince Young was there, they did so in an effort to get the ball in his hands on running plays more often, feeling that he was bigger, faster, and stronger than most of the defenders chasing him. Obviously, that paid off bigtime. Vick is not as big. Neither Vick nor Young is as big or fast compared to NFL defenders, so you can't run all your running plays out of this set, and you can't put your qb out there like that so often. But when you mix it in less frequently, with more of a surprise factor, I think you can get away with it. Indeed, you can have great success. Of course, you need a very quick, agile, aware qb possessing great vision, who can get down or get out of bounds when need be. Vick and Young both fit that bill.

Of course, when faced with any successful offensive play, adjustments can be made by the defense which will slow or stop it (offensive talent and execution notwithstanding), but what will the D leave vulnerable in the process...the deep pass play or the IM pass play? There is no perfect defense. Sooner or later, a good defense will load up to stop the run against Atlanta, and they'll probably try to throw over the top of that. That's when we'll see how far the Atl offense has come this year.

When you mix in the other options available on this play, then mix in plays under center, then throw in a healthy dose of no-huddle, the way Texas did it, leaving the defense on the field and unable to substitute personnel groups, then I think you've really got something.

 

[Jayrod]

I'd be shocked if this works long-term. Good idea to break it out against the Bucs though.

The Zone Read play is not Atlanta's base offense. They're mixing it in with the rest of their shotgun package. Defenses don't know when they're gonna run a regular shotgun pass play or run the zone read, from which the can run with the rb, run with the qb, or roll the qb out on a run/throw option. They also still run a lot out of regular running sets.

I think the way they use it (i.e. don't overuse it) will be the key to their success.

While Texas ran the ball almost exclusively out of the Zone Read when Vince Young was there, they did so in an effort to get the ball in his hands on running plays more often, feeling that he was bigger, faster, and stronger than most of the defenders chasing him. Obviously, that paid off bigtime. Vick is not as big. Neither Vick nor Young is as big or fast compared to NFL defenders, so you can't run all your running plays out of this set, and you can't put your qb out there like that so often. But when you mix it in less frequently, with more of a surprise factor, I think you can get away with it. Indeed, you can have great success. Of course, you need a very quick, agile, aware qb possessing great vision, who can get down or get out of bounds when need be. Vick and Young both fit that bill.

Of course, when faced with any successful offensive play, adjustments can be made by the defense which will slow or stop it (offensive talent and execution notwithstanding), but what will the D leave vulnerable in the process...the deep pass play or the IM pass play? There is no perfect defense. Sooner or later, a good defense will load up to stop the run against Atlanta, and they'll probably try to throw over the top of that. That's when we'll see how far the Atl offense has come this year.

When you mix in the other options available on this play, then mix in plays under center, then throw in a healthy dose of no-huddle, the way Texas did it, leaving the defense on the field and unable to substitute personnel groups, then I think you've really got something.

If they could make this work with no huddle, ala Indy & Cincy....watch the freak out. How can you adjust, scheme while having to leave the same 11 on the field at all times vs. this offense? That would take some serious planning and I don't think it could be done in a week. I'm just glad I'm not an NFC South D-coord.

 

[WhoDat]

Nice call RN. But I'm pretty sure NFL defenses will scheme an answer for this a lot quicker than Maryland or East Carolina will.I'd be shocked if this works long-term. Good idea to break it out against the Bucs though. <_<

Don't disagree, but they've establshed the threat of it now - meaning that it's one more headache DC's have in preparing for the Falcons.

And this might be the biggest competitive advantage created by using the Zone Read as part of their offense. The operative word being part, as Atlanta has implemented pieces of it but have not turned in their WCO playbooks just yet. Defenses now have to prepare for this look. It disrupts a week of practice and gives the DC and his personnel twice the amount of work and worry. Plus, a DC might have to change player rotation due to the threat of this defense.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

If they could make this work with no huddle, ala Indy & Cincy....watch the freak out. How can you adjust, scheme while having to leave the same 11 on the field at all times vs. this offense? That would take some serious planning and I don't think it could be done in a week. I'm just glad I'm not an NFC South D-coord.

This was the nightmare that DCs had to deal with when preparing for Texas last year. Once Young established against Ohio State that he could and would beat you with his arm if you overloaded on the run, it quickly became a "pick your poison" scenario...and Young and the Horns feasted. Then they threw in some no huddle drives here and there, and it tended to get ugly real fast.

Nice call RN. But I'm pretty sure NFL defenses will scheme an answer for this a lot quicker than Maryland or East Carolina will.I'd be shocked if this works long-term. Good idea to break it out against the Bucs though. <_<

Don't disagree, but they've establshed the threat of it now - meaning that it's one more headache DC's have in preparing for the Falcons.

And this might be the biggest competitive advantage created by using the Zone Read as part of their offense. The operative word being part, as Atlanta has implemented pieces of it but have not turned in their WCO playbooks just yet. Defenses now have to prepare for this look. It disrupts a week of practice and gives the DC and his personnel twice the amount of work and worry. Plus, a DC might have to change player rotation due to the threat of this defense.

Exactly.The Zone Read, employed by an effective running qb such as a Young or Vick or even a Big Ben forces defenses to change the way they play against the shotgun because it makes them account for the qb at all times. It's like having an extra player on offense. Also, the shotgun being typically employed as a passing formation, defenses could pretty much count on the high probability that a team with, say 3rd and 6, would throw the ball if they formed up in the shotgun. They could play pass defense. If you run the Zone Read and run it well, defenses have to honor that or pay the price. They have to play more "straight-up" defense, not overloading to the run or the pass, which hurts.

 

[Saints-Man]

They don't limit their scouting to NFL teams, either. The option, for instance, looks similar to some of the runs used by college powerhouse West Virginia, a team that just happened to rush for 382 yards back in January when the Sugar Bowl was held at the Falcons' home field.

Rich Rodriguez is the head coach at West Virginia. He is generally credited with developing this type of offense(later picked up by Texas and others). Rich Rodriguez was the OC under Tommy Bowden at Tulane in 97-98. In 1998, Shaun King was the QB at Tulane and ran this offense. It was very difficult to stop, and led to Tulane's 12-0 record that year.

Looks like Tulane missed the boat in not hiring Rodriquez as their head coach.

Hello my friend.Actually, I am of the opinion they did not. Tulane has been a stepping stone for coaches for a while (Larry Smith, Mack Brown, Tommy Bowden) and they had been hurt by a lack of continuity in the program. Rodriguez did not want a long term contract at Tulane, or he wanted one without a penalty for leaving early. Tulane had to start over every time a coach left for greener pastures and this hurt the overall growth of the program. Less than two years later, Rodriguez was hired at West Virginia. I don't believe he would have stayed at Tulane more than those two years.So, I think they did the right thing by hiring a guy who wanted to be at Tulane in Chris Scelfo. Scelfo has done a great job with bringing in Tulane-caliber kids and now has been at Tulane for 7+ years. The fan base has slowly, but steadily, increased, even though it is very small by major college programs. Scelfo is not the caliber of coach Rodriguez is, but he is solid and he has done a better job of building Tulane's program than Rodriguez would have.

 

[Shiver44]

People are overeacting. I've watched both games, they've only used the Shotgun Read sparingly. But, because it was so effective, the media makes it out like it's their primary formation.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

People are overeacting. I've watched both games, they've only used the Shotgun Read sparingly. But, because it was so effective, the media makes it out like it's their primary formation.

It's not their primary formation, but that will actually aid in it's effectiveness. They can run it any time they run the shotgun.

 

[Shiver44]

Exactly, they didn't overhaul their offense, they just improved it.

 

[SSOG]

I will cut through the fat and just present you with this question:===========================================================*Two direct quotes from you:"I said he was an above-average PASSER that season, but that as a quarterback on the whole (i.e. once you factor in his rushing), he was truly great.""Add in his rushing numbers that season and he finished as the 6th most valuable QB in the NFL."===========================================================...so you think being the 6th most valuable QB in the NFL in any one given season is considered "great?"Not trying to start a confrontation, as I think this debate is more a matter of perception and semantics, but do wonder what your answer will be...

Yup. I think the 6th best QB in the NFL is still a "great" QB. Remember that three QBs make the pro-bowl from each conference, so theoretically the 6th best QB should be synonymous with "pro bowl QB".Trent Green is the closest comparison I can think of. Trent Green has during his career pretty much every season been a borderline top-5 QB. I mean, he's no league MVP candidate, but at least 25 teams would find Green to be a significant upgrade over what they currently have under center. He always has significantly better than 7 yards per attempt (outside of his first season, he's only once been below 7.7 ypa), he always has a 60+% completion percentage, he always has a solid TD:INT ratio (4 of his 8 seasons it's been 2:1 or better). He's finished 6th or better in adjusted YPA for 5 straight seasons now. He's gone for 4,000 yards for three straight seasons. Absolutely I would call Trent Green a great QB. Not an all-time great, not a potential MVP, but yes, he's a great QB.Let me flip the question back on you. Clinton Portis, Shaun Alexander, LaDanian Tomlinson, Edgerrin James, Tiki Barber, Larry Johnson. Would you call all 6 of those guys great RBs? I know I certainly would- and that's even ignoring names like Warrick Dunn or Rudi Johnson. If it's possible to have 6 great RBs in any given season, why can't we have 6 great QBs, too?

 

[Englishteacher]

I'd like to see Schaub under center and Vick in the backfield on some plays.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Greg Knapp Studys Texas Zone Read (Insider)

After two weeks of the regular season, I think it's safe to say Atlanta's offense has been changed for the better, and QB Michael Vick is a better player because of those changes.

What we are now finding out is that it was Knapp who first went to Mora about making adjustments to the offense. Coaches spend a lot of time watching tape in the offseason, but Knapp wasn't watching footage of division rivals Carolina, Tampa Bay and New Orleans. He was watching 2005 University of Texas game film, closely studying the scheme that helped Texas win the national championship. Knapp also spoke with Texas offensive coordinator Greg Davis to get a better feel for the ins and outs of the system.

The above quote is taken from the free part.

 

[ATC1]

The formal name of that offense is a Zone Read. As it has been stated, it is not an option offense to be confused with anything once employed by Nebraska or Oklahoma. Two...completely...different...packages. Vick or any other NFL QB would get killed running a traditional option week in and out...killed. It is the same package that is ran by Texas and WVU. The QB's call is predicated on what the DE does or does not do pre-snap. If the DE is down, then the QB sprints out with an option to tuck and run (himself) or pass. If the DE is up, then the QB opts to hand the ball to the RB for a quick hit inside.

My understanding was that the QB made the read during the play. He goes to hand the ball to the HB, while watching the weakside DE. If he pinches down strongside, the QB pulls the ball back and rolls out, if the DE stays home, the QB releases the ball to the RB. I don't think the read is pre-snap.

Yes and yes.He has a pre-snap read and has a reaction read at/after snap.

I didn't have time to read the entire thread, but isn't this what Urban Myer ran at Utah and what he runs now with Florida. I thought it was called Veer Option? It seems like Myer is haveing not as much success against the SEC defenses.

 

[SSOG]

The formal name of that offense is a Zone Read. As it has been stated, it is not an option offense to be confused with anything once employed by Nebraska or Oklahoma. Two...completely...different...packages. Vick or any other NFL QB would get killed running a traditional option week in and out...killed. It is the same package that is ran by Texas and WVU. The QB's call is predicated on what the DE does or does not do pre-snap. If the DE is down, then the QB sprints out with an option to tuck and run (himself) or pass. If the DE is up, then the QB opts to hand the ball to the RB for a quick hit inside.

My understanding was that the QB made the read during the play. He goes to hand the ball to the HB, while watching the weakside DE. If he pinches down strongside, the QB pulls the ball back and rolls out, if the DE stays home, the QB releases the ball to the RB. I don't think the read is pre-snap.

Yes and yes.He has a pre-snap read and has a reaction read at/after snap.

I didn't have time to read the entire thread, but isn't this what Urban Myer ran at Utah and what he runs now with Florida. I thought it was called Veer Option? It seems like Myer is haveing not as much success against the SEC defenses.

Yeah, that does sound like what Meyer runs. Remember, though- while Florida didn't have a lot of offensive success last year, Bowling Green and Utah were both pretty poor offensively in their first season under Meyer, too. Players are learning the scheme, and the O-Line especially is learning an entirely new blocking system. In addition, Meyer really didn't have a lot of players who fit the scheme (he said he had 3 receivers in a system that needs 7 or 8, for example).That offense sure is looking pretty good this season, though. Chris Leak leads the nation in TD tosses and QB Rating, and has posted a remarkable 9.51 yards per attempt, which is just RIDICULOUS. Plus, Deshaun Wynn, their runningback, just became the first player to rush for 100 yards against Tennessee since Caddilac Williams back in 2004. They've dialed down the option a lot and are varying it up with a lot of pro-style offenses, but when they did start using some option plays, they were repeatedly burning Tennessee for HUGE gains, especially in the running game.

 

[valhallan]

Props Raider

And props to me for drafting him