Hernandez convicted of first-degree murder; found deceased in his cell. (1 Viewer)

[KCitons]

Maybe this has already been asked/answered, but I didn't want to look back on 29 pages of this thread to see.....

Lets say that Hernandez is smarter than all of us think he is, and the Police can't pin anything on him, AT ALL. He's not charged, arrested, put on trial.....nothing.

Will he then ever suit up for the Pats, or any other NFL team again? I saw a rumor that the Pats may have already told him "it's over", but can they do that if nothing is pinned on him?

I guess you would have to pretend that you are Robert Kraft. (or any other owner) and decide for yourself. Is AH innocent, or did he "get away with" murder due to destroying evidence. I think this is where the NFL investigators come into play. While the courts have to presume innocence prior to a conviction, the private sector is free to use information that would not be permissible in court.

It may be Roger's call before it ever gets to Kraft, though.

Definitely. But in a case like this, Kraft would probably be in the NFL's corner. It would keep Kraft from being the bad guy.

 

[domvin]

Some thoughts on the case. Some expanding on earlier discussions.

Assuming there wasn't a prior appointment for the cleaning, the phone destruction, hard drive destruction, and cleaning all occurring will probably make it tough to convince a jury evidence wasn't being destroyed. If the hard drive was actually beat up to disable it, as opposed to it looking in normal shape but just not working, it would suggest evidence being destroyed even more.

So what options are there if that is the case? Someone destroyed the evidence, so if AH wants to avoid time for that he has to pin it on someone else. Anyone who he tries to pin it on, the question would be asked what would be their motive for destroying the phone and hard drive? I can't imagine a story where the answer isn't concealing evidence in the murder.

So implicating someone else in the evidence destruction would pretty much be fingering them as an accomplice in the murder. Let's say the three of them all had a hand in the murder, what would one of them do if he's getting blamed for the evidence destruction? They would probably roll on each other unless there is a payoff of some kind involved. And at that point you might as well have the person take the blame for the murder since you're pretty much making him look guilty over the evidence destruction.

On top of it, there is an aspect I was thinking about with the cleaning service. It could be argued that someone surreptitiously destroyed his phone and the hard drive without AH knowing (whether believed or not by a jury). But the cleaning service people are going to be able to speak to whether AH knew they were coming there, whether he directed them on what should be cleaned, etc.

Again, if the cleaning service was a scheduled appointment, the testimony of those cleaners could really be damning if AH took a personal hand in their hiring and direction once they arrived. If on the other hand it was one of his buddies who took care of it, that might help support any claims that someone else was responsible for the phone and hard drive too and that he had no idea what transpired.

Edit to add: And if AH argues someone else did destroy the phone and hard drive to cover up evidence, that leads to the question, why did AH's phone and security system have evidence of the murder that would need destroying? He'd have to come up with something that has himself not being in control of his phone most likely. And given all three suspects entered the house together around 3:30 am according to witnesses... yeah, I just don't see a very believable story being crafted if they did commit the murder.

The other thing I've been wondering about is one of the rental cars was missing its side mirror and the police were looking for it along the route the car would have taken. That could suggest something particular happening in the timeline of the murder. Perhaps there was a struggle and someone's body hit the mirror and broke it off? Was there an accident involved that led to an altercation? Haven't heard anything more about it. But the cops could probably tell from traffic cameras if it was still on the car when they left the club I should think. The whole thing with the mirror is making me wonder what other physical evidence there might be with the car.

I thought about the above scenario, but AH's neighbors supposedly hearing gunshots would "shoot" this theory down. Gunshots at his house?

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Lets just say he's done forever, what would be the cap hit for the Patriots? He just signed a good extension not too long ago.

I don't think there'd be a cap hit. If he's unavailable to play football because he's incarcerated, that's a breach of his duties to the Patriots and entitles the team to recover the portion of his signing bonus that hasn't already been earned (and counted against the cap).

Article 4, Section 9(a).

(If the team simply cuts him right now before he becomes unavailable, it would take a $12,510,000 cap hit. But that's not going to happen.)

Ian Rappaport reported that the "failure to report" clause that would let the team not pay his annual salaries if he is suspended or in jail, wasn't included in his contract for the payment of his annual salaries. So the team may be on the hook for $2.5m for his 2013 and 2014 salaries, which are guaranteed so would have to be paid even if cut.

Before 2011, that clause was often included in individual player contracts. It no longer needs to be. It's now part of the CBA.

By what term is a player's annual salary referred to in the CBA? The section you mention says: "...may be

required to forfeit signing bonus, roster bonus, option bonus and/or reporting bonus, and no other Salary, for each League Year in which a Forfeitable Breach occurs".

I didn't think annual salary was referred to by any of those terms.

Edit to add: Page 149 differentiates between them, referring to what we call annual salary as Paragraph 5 salary, and then noting "Additional Compensation" which it says includes roster and reporting bonuses, so those terms wouldn't refer to annual salary.

Good point. Guaranteed annual salary isn't forfeitable under paragraph 9. But it is forfeitable with a suspension under the personal conduct policy. I think it's likely that Hernandez would be suspended for however long he's unavailable due to incarceration, in which case there still wouldn't be a cap hit.

 

[unckeyherb]

Maybe this has already been asked/answered, but I didn't want to look back on 29 pages of this thread to see.....

Lets say that Hernandez is smarter than all of us think he is, and the Police can't pin anything on him, AT ALL. He's not charged, arrested, put on trial.....nothing.

Will he then ever suit up for the Pats, or any other NFL team again? I saw a rumor that the Pats may have already told him "it's over", but can they do that if nothing is pinned on him?

I would think that the team can relieve him of his duties whenever they want?

 

[Touchdown There]

Let's see a show of hands: How many FBG's have had their home's searched?

We have ALL had our electronic data illegally searched and seized (replicated) into government hard drives.

Wrong thread.

I don't think so. You just do not like the answer.

 

[Jeremy]

Maybe this has already been asked/answered, but I didn't want to look back on 29 pages of this thread to see.....

Lets say that Hernandez is smarter than all of us think he is, and the Police can't pin anything on him, AT ALL. He's not charged, arrested, put on trial.....nothing.

Will he then ever suit up for the Pats, or any other NFL team again? I saw a rumor that the Pats may have already told him "it's over", but can they do that if nothing is pinned on him?

I guess you would have to pretend that you are Robert Kraft. (or any other owner) and decide for yourself. Is AH innocent, or did he "get away with" murder due to destroying evidence. I think this is where the NFL investigators come into play. While the courts have to presume innocence prior to a conviction, the private sector is free to use information that would not be permissible in court.

Even if they knew he was involved in the murder, I could see the Patriots saying something like, "in this country we presume innocence until proven guilty, and Aaron was not found guilty. Play ball!" Tom Brady isn't getting any younger, and the Patriots have shown a willingness to look the other way for guys with character issues in the last several years (Randy Moss, Haynesworth, Talib, OchoCinco, Lloyd, etc). Of course none of them come close to being a dirtball of this magnatude. So we'll see.

Doubtful they'll even have a chance to make that decision, as other have said.

 

[KCitons]

Let's see a show of hands: How many FBG's have had their home's searched?

We have ALL had our electronic data illegally searched and seized (replicated) into government hard drives.

Wrong thread.

I don't think so. You just do not like the answer.

Don't disagree with your statement. It's still the wrong thread.

If you're hell bent on discussing it, PM me. (that way I can ignore you without bothering everyone else)

 

[KCitons]

Maybe this has already been asked/answered, but I didn't want to look back on 29 pages of this thread to see.....

Lets say that Hernandez is smarter than all of us think he is, and the Police can't pin anything on him, AT ALL. He's not charged, arrested, put on trial.....nothing.

Will he then ever suit up for the Pats, or any other NFL team again? I saw a rumor that the Pats may have already told him "it's over", but can they do that if nothing is pinned on him?

I guess you would have to pretend that you are Robert Kraft. (or any other owner) and decide for yourself. Is AH innocent, or did he "get away with" murder due to destroying evidence. I think this is where the NFL investigators come into play. While the courts have to presume innocence prior to a conviction, the private sector is free to use information that would not be permissible in court.

Even if they knew he was involved in the murder, I could see the Patriots saying something like, "in this country we presume innocence until proven guilty, and Aaron was not found guilty. Play ball!" Tom Brady isn't getting any younger, and the Patriots have shown a willingness to look the other way for guys with character issues in the last several years (Randy Moss, Haynesworth, Talib, OchoCinco, Lloyd, etc). Of course none of them come close to being a dirtball of this magnatude. So we'll see.

Doubtful they'll even have a chance to make that decision, as other have said.

I could see an owner like Jerry Jones thinking this way. I'm not a Pats fan, but I see Mr Kraft as a man with a good moral compass. Money is important, but not in this case.

 

[Touchdown There]

Let's see a show of hands: How many FBG's have had their home's searched?

We have ALL had our electronic data illegally searched and seized (replicated) into government hard drives.

Wrong thread.

I don't think so. You just do not like the answer.

Don't disagree with your statement. It's still the wrong thread.

If you're hell bent on discussing it, PM me. (that way I can ignore you without bothering everyone else)

It is not a discussion. You asked how many of us have been searched. The answer is "all of us".

 

[Shutout]

Question for the Law savvy guys here following this:

I've noticed that is has been said many times that Hernandez is likely to be arrested, citing obstruction of justice but has not yet. In the meantime the cops are digging through his garbage and diving in his pond.

Can a person be arrested for obstruction if there is not enough evidence available to make a case stick? In other words, is it possible that the reason he has NOT been arrested yet is because they are afraid they don't have a strong enough case/data/etc to make it hold up? Just a thought because it seems like if they really had something concrete, wouldn't they have brought him in by now, scared him with a 7 year sentence for obstruction and began to get him to spill the beans and plea bargain?

 

[KCitons]

Let's see a show of hands: How many FBG's have had their home's searched?

We have ALL had our electronic data illegally searched and seized (replicated) into government hard drives.

Wrong thread.

I don't think so. You just do not like the answer.

Don't disagree with your statement. It's still the wrong thread.

If you're hell bent on discussing it, PM me. (that way I can ignore you without bothering everyone else)

It is not a discussion. You asked how many of us have been searched. The answer is "all of us".

 

[PatsFanCT]

Question for the Law savvy guys here following this:

I've noticed that is has been said many times that Hernandez is likely to be arrested, citing obstruction of justice but has not yet. In the meantime the cops are digging through his garbage and diving in his pond.

Can a person be arrested for obstruction if there is not enough evidence available to make a case stick? In other words, is it possible that the reason he has NOT been arrested yet is because they are afraid they don't have a strong enough case/data/etc to make it hold up? Just a thought because it seems like if they really had something concrete, wouldn't they have brought him in by now, scared him with a 7 year sentence for obstruction and began to get him to spill the beans and plea bargain?

IF the tree guys in question are indeed guilty, one of them is going to break. However, if they all stick to the same story and the police don't end up with any evidence to charge someone with murder, then what are the odds Hernandez would get any time at all for obstruction? Would they really try to drag an obstruction of justice charge, for breaking his cell phone and destroying his security system through a trial?

 

[Spin]

Let's see a show of hands: How many FBG's have had their home's searched?

We have ALL had our electronic data illegally searched and seized (replicated) into government hard drives.

Wrong thread.

I don't think so. You just do not like the answer.

Don't disagree with your statement. It's still the wrong thread.

If you're hell bent on discussing it, PM me. (that way I can ignore you without bothering everyone else)

It is not a discussion. You asked how many of us have been searched. The answer is "all of us".

Having your data "illegally searched" is completely different then having your home searched via warrant.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Question for the Law savvy guys here following this:

I've noticed that is has been said many times that Hernandez is likely to be arrested, citing obstruction of justice but has not yet. In the meantime the cops are digging through his garbage and diving in his pond.

Can a person be arrested for obstruction if there is not enough evidence available to make a case stick? In other words, is it possible that the reason he has NOT been arrested yet is because they are afraid they don't have a strong enough case/data/etc to make it hold up? Just a thought because it seems like if they really had something concrete, wouldn't they have brought him in by now, scared him with a 7 year sentence for obstruction and began to get him to spill the beans and plea bargain?

I could be mistaken, but I think lying to police is enough for an Obstruction charge, whether any other charges are ever brought or not.

 

[Jeremy]

Maybe this has already been asked/answered, but I didn't want to look back on 29 pages of this thread to see.....

Lets say that Hernandez is smarter than all of us think he is, and the Police can't pin anything on him, AT ALL. He's not charged, arrested, put on trial.....nothing.

Will he then ever suit up for the Pats, or any other NFL team again? I saw a rumor that the Pats may have already told him "it's over", but can they do that if nothing is pinned on him?

I guess you would have to pretend that you are Robert Kraft. (or any other owner) and decide for yourself. Is AH innocent, or did he "get away with" murder due to destroying evidence. I think this is where the NFL investigators come into play. While the courts have to presume innocence prior to a conviction, the private sector is free to use information that would not be permissible in court.

Even if they knew he was involved in the murder, I could see the Patriots saying something like, "in this country we presume innocence until proven guilty, and Aaron was not found guilty. Play ball!" Tom Brady isn't getting any younger, and the Patriots have shown a willingness to look the other way for guys with character issues in the last several years (Randy Moss, Haynesworth, Talib, OchoCinco, Lloyd, etc). Of course none of them come close to being a dirtball of this magnatude. So we'll see.

Doubtful they'll even have a chance to make that decision, as other have said.

I could see an owner like Jerry Jones thinking this way. I'm not a Pats fan, but I see Mr Kraft as a man with a good moral compass. Money is important, but not in this case.

You're probably right. I certainly don't think Belichick would have any hangups, but Kraft might.

 

[Touchdown There]

Let's see a show of hands: How many FBG's have had their home's searched?

We have ALL had our electronic data illegally searched and seized (replicated) into government hard drives.

Wrong thread.

I don't think so. You just do not like the answer.

Don't disagree with your statement. It's still the wrong thread.

If you're hell bent on discussing it, PM me. (that way I can ignore you without bothering everyone else)

It is not a discussion. You asked how many of us have been searched. The answer is "all of us".

Having your data "illegally searched" is completely different then having your home searched via warrant.

Your view is the same as the governments and I disagree with it.

 

[GregR]

Don't recall seeing this photo posted before, apologies if a double.

This article has an aerial photo showing AH's house compared to where the body was found.

Combining that and google maps, looks like the near edge of the industrial park is about 1300 feet away from his house as the crow flies, the far side about twice that.

 

[SayWhat?]

Let's see a show of hands: How many FBG's have had their home's searched?

We have ALL had our electronic data illegally searched and seized (replicated) into government hard drives.

Wrong thread.

I don't think so. You just do not like the answer.

Don't disagree with your statement. It's still the wrong thread.

If you're hell bent on discussing it, PM me. (that way I can ignore you without bothering everyone else)

It is not a discussion. You asked how many of us have been searched. The answer is "all of us".

Having your data "illegally searched" is completely different then having your home searched via warrant.

Your view is the same as the governments and I disagree with it.

Then as was stated earlier, wrong thead for that discussion.

 

[GregR]

Question for the Law savvy guys here following this:

I've noticed that is has been said many times that Hernandez is likely to be arrested, citing obstruction of justice but has not yet. In the meantime the cops are digging through his garbage and diving in his pond.

Can a person be arrested for obstruction if there is not enough evidence available to make a case stick? In other words, is it possible that the reason he has NOT been arrested yet is because they are afraid they don't have a strong enough case/data/etc to make it hold up? Just a thought because it seems like if they really had something concrete, wouldn't they have brought him in by now, scared him with a 7 year sentence for obstruction and began to get him to spill the beans and plea bargain?

IF the tree guys in question are indeed guilty, one of them is going to break. However, if they all stick to the same story and the police don't end up with any evidence to charge someone with murder, then what are the odds Hernandez would get any time at all for obstruction? Would they really try to drag an obstruction of justice charge, for breaking his cell phone and destroying his security system through a trial?

I'm not a lawyer. But I would have to think in the sliding scale of possible obstruction of justice cases, that this would be further towards the severe end than not. It being a murder case, and that the person doing the obstructing likely did it to cover up his own part in a crime. I'd hope it would result in significant jail time.

 

[Mr Non Sequitur]

Don't recall seeing this photo posted before, apologies if a double.

This article has an aerial photo showing AH's house compared to where the body was found.

Combining that and google maps, looks like the near edge of the industrial park is about 1300 feet away from his house as the crow flies, the far side about twice that.

So the 4 of them leave the bar together, these guys don't know when/where Lloyd left their party?(I'm guessing they have not told police when they lost track of Lloyd) Are we to believe that? And then the body is discovered 1300 feet from the house(like how I did that), all evidence from that night has been destroyed. Just trying to keep a short list of the high points here.

 

[GregR]

Don't recall seeing this photo posted before, apologies if a double.

This article has an aerial photo showing AH's house compared to where the body was found.

Combining that and google maps, looks like the near edge of the industrial park is about 1300 feet away from his house as the crow flies, the far side about twice that.

So the 4 of them leave the bar together, these guys don't know when/where Lloyd left their party?(I'm guessing they have not told police when they lost track of Lloyd) Are we to believe that? And then the body is discovered 1300 feet from the house(like how I did that), all evidence from that night has been destroyed. Just trying to keep a short list of the high points here.

That same article mentioned something else I hadn't heard... that there is photo evidence of Hernandez outside of Lloyd's house an hour before the shooting.

Not sure if that helps or hurts him. It puts him much closer to the time of death. But it also could add credence to a defense of "we dropped him off at his house and that's the last we saw of him".

I still think one possibility is AH did the house cleaning and destroyed the evidence to conceal drug use rather than murder. Which could still land him in jail, but it would be a possibility where the obstruction wasn't about beating a murder rap. Hopefully the police have something else that ties someone to the shooting more than what we've heard so far.

 

[Donnybrook]

Maybe this has already been asked/answered, but I didn't want to look back on 29 pages of this thread to see.....

Lets say that Hernandez is smarter than all of us think he is, and the Police can't pin anything on him, AT ALL. He's not charged, arrested, put on trial.....nothing.

Will he then ever suit up for the Pats, or any other NFL team again? I saw a rumor that the Pats may have already told him "it's over", but can they do that if nothing is pinned on him?

I guess you would have to pretend that you are Robert Kraft. (or any other owner) and decide for yourself. Is AH innocent, or did he "get away with" murder due to destroying evidence. I think this is where the NFL investigators come into play. While the courts have to presume innocence prior to a conviction, the private sector is free to use information that would not be permissible in court.

Even if they knew he was involved in the murder, I could see the Patriots saying something like, "in this country we presume innocence until proven guilty, and Aaron was not found guilty. Play ball!" Tom Brady isn't getting any younger, and the Patriots have shown a willingness to look the other way for guys with character issues in the last several years (Randy Moss, Haynesworth, Talib, OchoCinco, Lloyd, etc). Of course none of them come close to being a dirtball of this magnatude. So we'll see.

Doubtful they'll even have a chance to make that decision, as other have said.

I might be able to see that happening if the police never make an arrest. Otherwise, I see parallels to the Vikings/Chris Cook situation. I think he will be suspended indefinitely without pay until the outcome of the trial. The team will definitely cut him if he is found guilty.

 

[Touchdown There]

Let's see a show of hands: How many FBG's have had their home's searched?

We have ALL had our electronic data illegally searched and seized (replicated) into government hard drives.

Wrong thread.

I don't think so. You just do not like the answer.

Don't disagree with your statement. It's still the wrong thread.

If you're hell bent on discussing it, PM me. (that way I can ignore you without bothering everyone else)

It is not a discussion. You asked how many of us have been searched. The answer is "all of us".

Having your data "illegally searched" is completely different then having your home searched via warrant.

Your view is the same as the governments and I disagree with it.

Then as was stated earlier, wrong thead for that discussion.

No

 

[cstu]

Don't recall seeing this photo posted before, apologies if a double.

This article has an aerial photo showing AH's house compared to where the body was found.

Combining that and google maps, looks like the near edge of the industrial park is about 1300 feet away from his house as the crow flies, the far side about twice that.

So the 4 of them leave the bar together, these guys don't know when/where Lloyd left their party?(I'm guessing they have not told police when they lost track of Lloyd) Are we to believe that? And then the body is discovered 1300 feet from the house(like how I did that), all evidence from that night has been destroyed. Just trying to keep a short list of the high points here.

That same article mentioned something else I hadn't heard... that there is photo evidence of Hernandez outside of Lloyd's house an hour before the shooting.

Not sure if that helps or hurts him. It puts him much closer to the time of death. But it also could add credence to a defense of "we dropped him off at his house and that's the last we saw of him".

I still think one possibility is AH did the house cleaning and destroyed the evidence to conceal drug use rather than murder. Which could still land him in jail, but it would be a possibility where the obstruction wasn't about beating a murder rap. Hopefully the police have something else that ties someone to the shooting more than what we've heard so far.

Hard to believe they dropped him off at his house and then he was found dead less than an hour later just around the corner from Hernandez' house.

 

[cstu]

Question for the Law savvy guys here following this:

I've noticed that is has been said many times that Hernandez is likely to be arrested, citing obstruction of justice but has not yet. In the meantime the cops are digging through his garbage and diving in his pond.

Can a person be arrested for obstruction if there is not enough evidence available to make a case stick? In other words, is it possible that the reason he has NOT been arrested yet is because they are afraid they don't have a strong enough case/data/etc to make it hold up? Just a thought because it seems like if they really had something concrete, wouldn't they have brought him in by now, scared him with a 7 year sentence for obstruction and began to get him to spill the beans and plea bargain?

IF the tree guys in question are indeed guilty, one of them is going to break. However, if they all stick to the same story and the police don't end up with any evidence to charge someone with murder, then what are the odds Hernandez would get any time at all for obstruction? Would they really try to drag an obstruction of justice charge, for breaking his cell phone and destroying his security system through a trial?

In a murder case? Absolutely.

 

[meyerj31]

Wasn't this guy supposed to be a friend of Hernandez?

Has anyone answered motive here? Isn't that the most important issue to prove with any murder trial?

Couldn't this be a case where Hernandez & company pissed off some real gang-bangers and they killed Odin then dumped his body close to Hernandez's house to try to pin it on him?

From all this I think we understand he kept bad company but I think it's a stretch to say he had anything to do with murdering a guy. How could he be stupid enough to dump a body 1300 feet from his house? If he's smart enough to clean his house and break his phone then he's not dumping a body 1300 feet from his house.

There's a whole lot of circumstantial evidence here and no smoking gun. I say he plays this year.

 

[Spin]

Wasn't this guy supposed to be a friend of Hernandez?

Has anyone answered motive here? Isn't that the most important issue to prove with any murder trial?

Couldn't this be a case where Hernandez & company pissed off some real gang-bangers and they killed Odin then dumped his body close to Hernandez's house to try to pin it on him?

Why would Hernandez destroy his surveillance system and cell phone then?

 

[cstu]

Wasn't this guy supposed to be a friend of Hernandez?

Has anyone answered motive here? Isn't that the most important issue to prove with any murder trial?

Couldn't this be a case where Hernandez & company pissed off some real gang-bangers and they killed Odin then dumped his body close to Hernandez's house to try to pin it on him?

From all this I think we understand he kept bad company but I think it's a stretch to say he had anything to do with murdering a guy.

Then why did Hernandez leave his car parked somewhere, walk home and then destroy his surveillance system/phone?

 

[KCitons]

Wasn't this guy supposed to be a friend of Hernandez?

Has anyone answered motive here? Isn't that the most important issue to prove with any murder trial?

Couldn't this be a case where Hernandez & company pissed off some real gang-bangers and they killed Odin then dumped his body close to Hernandez's house to try to pin it on him?

Why would Hernandez destroy his surveillance system and cell phone then?

Exactly, Which is another reason why the police are going to find something to connect AH to this murder. The lack of cooperation, makes the popo angry.

 

[GregR]

Don't recall seeing this photo posted before, apologies if a double.

This article has an aerial photo showing AH's house compared to where the body was found.

Combining that and google maps, looks like the near edge of the industrial park is about 1300 feet away from his house as the crow flies, the far side about twice that.

So the 4 of them leave the bar together, these guys don't know when/where Lloyd left their party?(I'm guessing they have not told police when they lost track of Lloyd) Are we to believe that? And then the body is discovered 1300 feet from the house(like how I did that), all evidence from that night has been destroyed. Just trying to keep a short list of the high points here.

That same article mentioned something else I hadn't heard... that there is photo evidence of Hernandez outside of Lloyd's house an hour before the shooting.

Not sure if that helps or hurts him. It puts him much closer to the time of death. But it also could add credence to a defense of "we dropped him off at his house and that's the last we saw of him".

I still think one possibility is AH did the house cleaning and destroyed the evidence to conceal drug use rather than murder. Which could still land him in jail, but it would be a possibility where the obstruction wasn't about beating a murder rap. Hopefully the police have something else that ties someone to the shooting more than what we've heard so far.

Hard to believe they dropped him off at his house and then he was found dead less than an hour later just around the corner from Hernandez' house.

More googling, first to confirm other places reported AH being at Lloyd's house. And one mentioned Lloyd lived in Dorcester which from the map looks like it is maybe 20+ miles from where AH lives.

Yes, given the distance, it would seem likely they probably all returned to AH's house together. Playing AH's advocate, they could have taken different vehicles though, stopped so Lloyd could grab his car.

I think it probably hurts AH though, yeah. Given the time frame, being that far from the murder scene about an hour before it, half of the time would have been spent in transit probably. Seems like the time frame is shrinking.

Also another thing I noted, in terms of neighbors who heard shots. We don't necessarily know that it was someone next door to AH who heard the shots. Could have referred to someone in one of the closer houses to the murder scene.

 

[Sleeper 43]

My guess is he didn't want to be a snitch to his longtime friends who killed Odin while in or around the time of his company and tried to disassociate his possessions (home, rentals cars etc..) from the murder.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

To prove obstruction of justice, wouldn't the state have to prove that their was actually a crime committed on Hernandez's property to obstruct to?

 

[ConnSKINS26]

To prove obstruction of justice, wouldn't the state have to prove that their was actually a crime committed on Hernandez's property to obstruct to?

No, I don't believe so. He's obstructing the investigation, whether it turns out the investigation was warranted or leads to anything or not. I could be wrong, though.

 

[GregR]

To prove obstruction of justice, wouldn't the state have to prove that their was actually a crime committed on Hernandez's property to obstruct to?

Previously posted from Wikipedia:

Obstruction charges can also be laid if a person alters or destroys physical evidence, even if he was under no compulsion at any time to produce such evidence. Often, no actual investigation or substantiated suspicion of a specific incident need exist to support a charge of obstruction of justice.

 

[meyerj31]

Wasn't this guy supposed to be a friend of Hernandez?

Has anyone answered motive here? Isn't that the most important issue to prove with any murder trial?

Couldn't this be a case where Hernandez & company pissed off some real gang-bangers and they killed Odin then dumped his body close to Hernandez's house to try to pin it on him?

Why would Hernandez destroy his surveillance system and cell phone then?

As noted before ... could be covering up something else, like drug use. Or being associates of the people he knows that killed them.

I still think it's far fetched that he had anything to do with the intention of killing that guy.

And I'm not going to crucify a guy for keeping bad company. People make mistakes. Being in the wrong crowd shouldn't result in years in prison or loss of wages because your friends made some bad decisions, if you weren't a part of those decisions.

Just playing devil's advocate.

Also, for those saying the Pats will cut ties.... read the article on overthecap.com. They have nothing to gain by releasing him. From a cap standpoint the Pats are sitting pretty on the whole deal. What they lose is a talented player, but it's not like they have a lot of guaranteed money invested in him, so that can be spent elsewhere.

 

[stumpie71]

Question for the Law savvy guys here following this:

I've noticed that is has been said many times that Hernandez is likely to be arrested, citing obstruction of justice but has not yet. In the meantime the cops are digging through his garbage and diving in his pond.

Can a person be arrested for obstruction if there is not enough evidence available to make a case stick? In other words, is it possible that the reason he has NOT been arrested yet is because they are afraid they don't have a strong enough case/data/etc to make it hold up? Just a thought because it seems like if they really had something concrete, wouldn't they have brought him in by now, scared him with a 7 year sentence for obstruction and began to get him to spill the beans and plea bargain?

Yes they can, and it can be easier than the initial case. The authorities already can prove a crime has been committed ( possible murder). So for obstruction charges the authorities would need to prove that the someone knowingly, and willingly, tampered with or destroyed possible evidence.

Think about it like this, a doctor is being investigated for supplying HGH or steroids to athletes. During the investigation he/she destroys all patient data relating to athletes under his/her care, in an attempt to protect his/her clients. The authorities would only have to prove a crime was being or had been committed for the obstruction charges to be levied.

Suspects usually make it easier to be convicted of such charges because of the destruction of possible evidence. It is a huge payoff though with serious crimes, up to 10 years for obstruction ( depending on states or federal and severity),or in the case of Odin Lloyd, 10 years + or possible death penalty.

 

[Bruce Hammond]

Let's not forget that after 4 hours at his house yesterday, police left with a bunch of bags of something. I doubt they were taking out his trash for him.

Just because police don't run to the media with every detail doesn't mean they have no evidence, and just because there has been no arrest doesn't mean there won't be. They are not interested in satisfying either the media's or fantasy footballers' need to be fed something juicy every day.

 

[stumpie71]

Wasn't this guy supposed to be a friend of Hernandez?

Has anyone answered motive here? Isn't that the most important issue to prove with any murder trial?

Couldn't this be a case where Hernandez & company pissed off some real gang-bangers and they killed Odin then dumped his body close to Hernandez's house to try to pin it on him?

From all this I think we understand he kept bad company but I think it's a stretch to say he had anything to do with murdering a guy.

Then why did Hernandez leave his car parked somewhere, walk home and then destroy his surveillance system/phone?

It seems like you are one of the few that uses some logic with your reasoning.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

To prove obstruction of justice, wouldn't the state have to prove that their was actually a crime committed on Hernandez's property to obstruct to?

Previously posted from Wikipedia:

Obstruction charges can also be laid if a person alters or destroys physical evidence, even if he was under no compulsion at any time to produce such evidence. Often, no actual investigation or substantiated suspicion of a specific incident need exist to support a charge of obstruction of justice.

So basically I'm obstructing justice by walking across a dirt field because a criminal could have walked across that same field the night before and I removed shoe prints? I get if the rumors of what Hernandez did are true are worse than that example but our laws and court system are pretty stupid sometimes. To me it's becoming more and more obvious not that Hernandez is going to prison for a long time but that the investigators don't have squat on the guy and won't be able to do anything unless he talks. So they come up with a trumped up BS charge to force him into talking.

 

[matttyl]

To prove obstruction of justice, wouldn't the state have to prove that their was actually a crime committed on Hernandez's property to obstruct to?

Previously posted from Wikipedia:

Obstruction charges can also be laid if a person alters or destroys physical evidence, even if he was under no compulsion at any time to produce such evidence. Often, no actual investigation or substantiated suspicion of a specific incident need exist to support a charge of obstruction of justice.

But I believe what's been said a few times over is that the state would have to prove that there was some evidence of a crime on the phone or surveillance system that AH (or whoever) destroyed to show that they were in fact "obstructing justice". Without knowing what was on the film/phone, how can the state say that he destroyed "evidence"?

 

[PatsFanCT]

Let's not forget that after 4 hours at his house yesterday, police left with a bunch of bags of something. I doubt they were taking out his trash for him.

Just because police don't run to the media with every detail doesn't mean they have no evidence, and just because there has been no arrest doesn't mean there won't be. They are not interested in satisfying either the media's or fantasy footballers' need to be fed something juicy every day.

And just because the police walk out of his house with bags of something doesn't mean they contain any evidence.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Let's not forget that after 4 hours at his house yesterday, police left with a bunch of bags of something. I doubt they were taking out his trash for him.

Just because police don't run to the media with every detail doesn't mean they have no evidence, and just because there has been no arrest doesn't mean there won't be. They are not interested in satisfying either the media's or fantasy footballers' need to be fed something juicy every day.

And just because the police walk out of his house with bags of something doesn't mean they contain any evidence.

What else could be in the bags?

 

[Bruce Hammond]

Let's not forget that after 4 hours at his house yesterday, police left with a bunch of bags of something. I doubt they were taking out his trash for him.

Just because police don't run to the media with every detail doesn't mean they have no evidence, and just because there has been no arrest doesn't mean there won't be. They are not interested in satisfying either the media's or fantasy footballers' need to be fed something juicy every day.

And just because the police walk out of his house with bags of something doesn't mean they contain any evidence.

Right, it must have been lunch.

 

[PatsFanCT]

Let's not forget that after 4 hours at his house yesterday, police left with a bunch of bags of something. I doubt they were taking out his trash for him.

Just because police don't run to the media with every detail doesn't mean they have no evidence, and just because there has been no arrest doesn't mean there won't be. They are not interested in satisfying either the media's or fantasy footballers' need to be fed something juicy every day.

And just because the police walk out of his house with bags of something doesn't mean they contain any evidence.

Right, it must have been lunch.

How long were these guys staying with Hernandez? It could have been every piece of clothing they found in the house to test for bloodstains. It could also have been the garbage, and anything else in the house that could have trace evidence. It's a mansion, I doubt it's empty.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Let's not forget that after 4 hours at his house yesterday, police left with a bunch of bags of something. I doubt they were taking out his trash for him.

Just because police don't run to the media with every detail doesn't mean they have no evidence, and just because there has been no arrest doesn't mean there won't be. They are not interested in satisfying either the media's or fantasy footballers' need to be fed something juicy every day.

Seems like someone is leaking info every time they have something...I doubt it is Hernandez.

 

[KCitons]

To prove obstruction of justice, wouldn't the state have to prove that their was actually a crime committed on Hernandez's property to obstruct to?

Previously posted from Wikipedia:

Obstruction charges can also be laid if a person alters or destroys physical evidence, even if he was under no compulsion at any time to produce such evidence. Often, no actual investigation or substantiated suspicion of a specific incident need exist to support a charge of obstruction of justice.

So basically I'm obstructing justice by walking across a dirt field because a criminal could have walked across that same field the night before and I removed shoe prints? I get if the rumors of what Hernandez did are true are worse than that example but our laws and court system are pretty stupid sometimes. To me it's becoming more and more obvious not that Hernandez is going to prison for a long time but that the investigators don't have squat on the guy and won't be able to do anything unless he talks. So they come up with a trumped up BS charge to force him into talking.

No, it's normal for a person to walk across a dirt field. (I guess) But, a normal person doesn't destroy his security system. The one thing we don't know, is what AH told the police in regards to how/why the security system was destroyed

 

[GregR]

To prove obstruction of justice, wouldn't the state have to prove that their was actually a crime committed on Hernandez's property to obstruct to?

Previously posted from Wikipedia:

Obstruction charges can also be laid if a person alters or destroys physical evidence, even if he was under no compulsion at any time to produce such evidence. Often, no actual investigation or substantiated suspicion of a specific incident need exist to support a charge of obstruction of justice.

So basically I'm obstructing justice by walking across a dirt field because a criminal could have walked across that same field the night before and I removed shoe prints? I get if the rumors of what Hernandez did are true are worse than that example but our laws and court system are pretty stupid sometimes. To me it's becoming more and more obvious not that Hernandez is going to prison for a long time but that the investigators don't have squat on the guy and won't be able to do anything unless he talks. So they come up with a trumped up BS charge to force him into talking.

I'm not a lawyer. But from googling, you need intent to be guilty of obstruction. So crossing a field and messing up tracks you didn't know had anything to do with anything criminal, no. Messing up tracks you believed were evidence, yes.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Let's not forget that after 4 hours at his house yesterday, police left with a bunch of bags of something. I doubt they were taking out his trash for him.

Just because police don't run to the media with every detail doesn't mean they have no evidence, and just because there has been no arrest doesn't mean there won't be. They are not interested in satisfying either the media's or fantasy footballers' need to be fed something juicy every day.

And just because the police walk out of his house with bags of something doesn't mean they contain any evidence.

They can just take anything they want, like snacks and magazines?

 

[LarryAllen'sJockstrap]

I've been trying to keep up, but I've got a couple questions and I don't think I've seen answers in this thread.

1. Has it been said whether Lloyd was killed where his body was found?

2. What is the deal with the car found "near" the crime scene? From the map, it looks like Hernandez's property borders on that of the industrial park where Lloyd was found. Was this car found parked in a field or the industrial park? Was the car one Hernandez rented or was it one he owned?

 

[stumpie71]

To prove obstruction of justice, wouldn't the state have to prove that their was actually a crime committed on Hernandez's property to obstruct to?

Previously posted from Wikipedia:

Obstruction charges can also be laid if a person alters or destroys physical evidence, even if he was under no compulsion at any time to produce such evidence. Often, no actual investigation or substantiated suspicion of a specific incident need exist to support a charge of obstruction of justice.

So basically I'm obstructing justice by walking across a dirt field because a criminal could have walked across that same field the night before and I removed shoe prints? I get if the rumors of what Hernandez did are true are worse than that example but our laws and court system are pretty stupid sometimes. To me it's becoming more and more obvious not that Hernandez is going to prison for a long time but that the investigators don't have squat on the guy and won't be able to do anything unless he talks. So they come up with a trumped up BS charge to force him into talking.

No that is not how it works. First it is about intent and if a person has possible knowledge of an alleged crime. Walking through a field is one thing, walking through to intentionally cover tracks of a possible assailant could be obstruction. See the difference