Hernandez convicted of first-degree murder; found deceased in his cell. (2 Viewers)

[GregR]

To prove obstruction of justice, wouldn't the state have to prove that their was actually a crime committed on Hernandez's property to obstruct to?

Previously posted from Wikipedia:

Obstruction charges can also be laid if a person alters or destroys physical evidence, even if he was under no compulsion at any time to produce such evidence. Often, no actual investigation or substantiated suspicion of a specific incident need exist to support a charge of obstruction of justice.

But I believe what's been said a few times over is that the state would have to prove that there was some evidence of a crime on the phone or surveillance system that AH (or whoever) destroyed to show that they were in fact "obstructing justice". Without knowing what was on the film/phone, how can the state say that he destroyed "evidence"?

Again, not a lawyer, but I don't believe what you said is correct. The crime is hindering a criminal investigation. If the investigation seeks to check those items for evidence and AH destroys them so they can't be checked, I believe that's guilty of obstruction. Regardless of whether they would have yielded evidence of the crime, he would still have obstructed the investigation. A lawyer can correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[GregR]

I've been trying to keep up, but I've got a couple questions and I don't think I've seen answers in this thread.

1. Has it been said whether Lloyd was killed where his body was found?

2. What is the deal with the car found "near" the crime scene? From the map, it looks like Hernandez's property borders on that of the industrial park where Lloyd was found. Was this car found parked in a field or the industrial park? Was the car one Hernandez rented or was it one he owned?

1. It's been reported he was killed where the body was found.

2. Not sure exactly where the car was. I believe it was a rental, and that it was missing a side mirror that the police searched for.

 

[LuckyOne]

So basically I'm obstructing justice by walking across a dirt field because a criminal could have walked across that same field the night before and I removed shoe prints?

Not unless you knew it was a crime scene and did it to destroy/obscure evidence. The charge requires intent.

 

[stumpie71]

Let's not forget that after 4 hours at his house yesterday, police left with a bunch of bags of something. I doubt they were taking out his trash for him.

Just because police don't run to the media with every detail doesn't mean they have no evidence, and just because there has been no arrest doesn't mean there won't be. They are not interested in satisfying either the media's or fantasy footballers' need to be fed something juicy every day.

And just because the police walk out of his house with bags of something doesn't mean they contain any evidence.

Right, it must have been lunch.

How long were these guys staying with Hernandez? It could have been every piece of clothing they found in the house to test for bloodstains. It could also have been the garbage, and anything else in the house that could have trace evidence. It's a mansion, I doubt it's empty.

And that would make it evidence, right?

 

[PatsFanCT]

Let's not forget that after 4 hours at his house yesterday, police left with a bunch of bags of something. I doubt they were taking out his trash for him.

Just because police don't run to the media with every detail doesn't mean they have no evidence, and just because there has been no arrest doesn't mean there won't be. They are not interested in satisfying either the media's or fantasy footballers' need to be fed something juicy every day.

And just because the police walk out of his house with bags of something doesn't mean they contain any evidence.

Right, it must have been lunch.

How long were these guys staying with Hernandez? It could have been every piece of clothing they found in the house to test for bloodstains. It could also have been the garbage, and anything else in the house that could have trace evidence. It's a mansion, I doubt it's empty.

And that would make it evidence, right?

Yes, I was thinking in terms of not finding anything that points to them as being guilty of anything.

Never mind.

 

[GregR]

I've been trying to keep up, but I've got a couple questions and I don't think I've seen answers in this thread.

1. Has it been said whether Lloyd was killed where his body was found?

2. What is the deal with the car found "near" the crime scene? From the map, it looks like Hernandez's property borders on that of the industrial park where Lloyd was found. Was this car found parked in a field or the industrial park? Was the car one Hernandez rented or was it one he owned?

1. It's been reported he was killed where the body was found.

2. Not sure exactly where the car was. I believe it was a rental, and that it was missing a side mirror that the police searched for.

Just noticed something in another article. While there have been reports that he was killed where his body was found, they conflict with what the jogger who found the body said the police told him:

The jogger who found the body on Monday - who did not want to be identified - described what he saw to WBZ-TV: 'I saw an African-American male, probably 25-35 years old, decently dressed.

'He was stiff, motionless, one of the police officers came back later and said it looked the guy had been shot somewhere else and dumped here.'

Of course the cops may have thought differently once they had a chance to examine the scene. Not to mention the other report could have just plain been wrong. So I guess the answer is we're not sure.

 

[KCitons]

I don't know if I would trust the uniform cop's information. But, you would think it would be pretty easy to determine the location where someone was shot in the back of the head.

 

[The Fantasy Chef]

Lets keep the family of oden Lloyd in our prayers.

 

[Bronx Bomber]

So if I'm reading these responses correctly they can get him just for intent? or do they need to find out if the tapes had anything incriminating on it. If so what happens if the security backup system is housed out of the jurisdiction of the police that are investigating this case. I'm sure they could pull some favors but legally would that put a damper on their investigation if they couldn't get access to the backup drives or whatever?

What was the timeline again; did they see that the equipment was intact when they did the first search or could he simply argue that the system was destroyed months or years ago?

 

[LarryAllen'sJockstrap]

I've been trying to keep up, but I've got a couple questions and I don't think I've seen answers in this thread.

1. Has it been said whether Lloyd was killed where his body was found?

2. What is the deal with the car found "near" the crime scene? From the map, it looks like Hernandez's property borders on that of the industrial park where Lloyd was found. Was this car found parked in a field or the industrial park? Was the car one Hernandez rented or was it one he owned?

1. It's been reported he was killed where the body was found.

2. Not sure exactly where the car was. I believe it was a rental, and that it was missing a side mirror that the police searched for.

Just noticed something in another article. While there have been reports that he was killed where his body was found, they conflict with what the jogger who found the body said the police told him:

The jogger who found the body on Monday - who did not want to be identified - described what he saw to WBZ-TV: 'I saw an African-American male, probably 25-35 years old, decently dressed.

'He was stiff, motionless, one of the police officers came back later and said it looked the guy had been shot somewhere else and dumped here.'

Of course the cops may have thought differently once they had a chance to examine the scene. Not to mention the other report could have just plain been wrong. So I guess the answer is we're not sure.

Thanks. Good info.All the cleanup at Hernandez's house makes more sense if the murder happened there.

The "car found at the scene", if in any way connected to Hernandez seems so odd. Why leave it there, regardless of where the murder occurred. AH's house was only a mile away. Take it to get cleaned, home or preferably, drive it into a lake.

 

[cstu]

I've been trying to keep up, but I've got a couple questions and I don't think I've seen answers in this thread.

1. Has it been said whether Lloyd was killed where his body was found?

2. What is the deal with the car found "near" the crime scene? From the map, it looks like Hernandez's property borders on that of the industrial park where Lloyd was found. Was this car found parked in a field or the industrial park? Was the car one Hernandez rented or was it one he owned?

I've seen nothing specific but the car was found near the body.

 

[werdnoynek]

Article on Grantland today by Charles Pierce regarding this ordeal.. good stuff IMO.

June 24, 2013 12:00 AM ET
The American Way

By Charles P. Pierce

[Optional musical accompaniment to this column.]Up here in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts this summer, the circus truly has come to town. At their luxurious new courthouse on the Boston Waterfront, the feds have brought to trial one James "Whitey" Bulger, an octogenarian sociopath allegedly responsible for 19 murders and countless other acts of mayhem, many of which he performed under the protection of a Boston FBI office that was as twisted as a pig's ****, and who was finally run to earth in California a couple of years ago after existing for years as either a legend or the basis for a Martin Scorsese film. (Robert Duvall has been in rapt attendance at the trial.) The parade of former hit men, gunsels, and other middle-management officials from Whitey's criminal enterprises that the government has brought forth as witnesses against their old supervisor truly has been an awesome spectacle, and we're only just getting started. Whitey was a celebrity. He was armed. He's in the middle of a televised freak show. He's the damn American dream, walking.

Meanwhile, at a luxurious new mansion down in North Attleborough, the local and state police have spent the weekend investigating Aaron Hernandez, a 23-year-old tight end responsible for 175 receptions and 18 touchdowns, all of which he accomplished in the employ of the New England Patriots, in full view of the nation, and occasionally on national television, who now is more than suspected of being involved in the death of a man named Odin Lloyd, whose body was found in an industrial park not far from Hernandez's home. Hernandez has yet to be charged with anything, but the parade of local cops, state patrolmen, law-enforcement technicians, forensic dweebs, police technicians, and highly paid television haircuts in and around the Hernandez driveway truly has been an awesome spectacle, and, god knows, we're only getting started.

It's going to be a big summer for Going to our own Todd Tonsorial live at the scene, and Todd, tell us what the mood is there right now. Television news directors have the ol' Orgasmatron set at 11 and it isn't coming down anytime soon.

Celebrity murder is always showbiz and it always has been. The first completely human interaction in the Bible is Cain braining his brother in a field. (Another early one is Jacob trading his brother a bowl of pottage for his inheritance. So, it can be said that, according to Scripture, the dealings of human beings with each other began with a murder and a swindle. Whitey Bulger has nothing on Jehovah, at least in his literary persona.) We have had a couple dozen Crimes of the Century every century. The only difference has been technology. The kidnapping of the Lindbergh baby was the Crime of the 20th Century, then it was the O.J. Simpson case, and the only difference was that Bruno Hauptmann got covered by the Daily News and Simpson's white Bronco got tailed by television helicopters. They were both Crimes of the Century.

The dynamic of celebrity murder is as odious as it is inevitable. It requires the media — and the complicit public, namely us — to invest ourselves in the notion that some murders are more heinous than others, more worthy of our attention than others, and, therefore, that some victims are more lamentable than others, with all the moral ambivalence that calculation obviously entails. A celebrity murder also requires of the media that creates it an insatiable appetite for anything and everything that can be attached to The Case; a multimedia black hole is created, sucking in all information that comes within its zone of darkness. Cousins are interviewed. Hell, the diaper-service guy for the house down the block gets interviewed. Theories are propounded. Long-distance psychoanalysis is practiced. Big Thoughts are thought and, worse, expressed, about What It All Means, when, really, all it means is that human beings will kill each other, which we learned back in the early chapters of the Bible, remember? Nancy Grace rises from the box of fresh earth in which she sleeps every night to stalk the cable landscape, feeding vicariously on the blood of the victim.

That's Aaron Hernandez's life now, as he peeps out the window of his McMansion in North Attleborough and sees the satellite dishes springing up around him. Whitey Bulger missed all that because a corrupt FBI agent tipped him to his imminent arrest, allowing him to go on the lam. Now, there's only his trial over which the media can slaver, and that's something of a more tightly controlled environment. But it's open season on Hernandez, whose behavior since he first became of interest to police in this matter hasn't done him any favors. He smashed his home surveillance system. He had his lawyer deliver a cell phone to the police in pieces. (The fact that he had his house cleaned last Monday means less to me, since maybe that's the day the maid comes anyway, but the fact that it was "linked" to the other two more mysterious events shows you the way this was headed.) First, we heard that an arrest warrant already had been issued for him. Then, on Friday, a clerk in the local court said, no, there hadn't been one issued. Everybody knows everything, and nobody knows nothin'. But Aaron Hernandez, who stands convicted of nothing except obvious stupidity, has gotten himself involved in a death in which the people who get interested in such things have gotten interested so, therefore, it must be an Important Event and, therefore, everything that touches it must be Important, too. Let's go live to the scene.

Jackie Brown at twenty-six, with no expression on his face, said that he could get some guns. —George V. Higgins, The Friends of Eddie Coyle

The truth of it is all there, right in the greatest opening sentence of any American novel not written by Herman Melville. From the moment that Hernandez's involvement in the investigation became public, we have been treated to endless mock-sociological speculations about his "upbringing" and his "background" and how it may have been contrary to the Patriot Way, the always mythical concept that Robert Kraft was the first football owner in history to run his franchise according to the Rule of St. Benedict. This was always hooey, but the Patriots eagerly promulgated it in the days in which they were winning Super Bowls and their $40 million tight ends were not getting caught up in homicide cases. So, perhaps, the team did set itself up for a degree of petard-hoisting anytime one of its players got caught doing anything remotely outside the bounds of propriety. And what Hernandez is suspected of doing is pretty damned far outside those bounds. So, yes, we are all justified in our snarkery at the fact that the Patriot Way seems to have taken a turn in the general direction of Castle Dracula.

(Also, and this is the least important part of it all, I suspect that things haven't been too cool around the Brady manse these days, either. The quarterback gives back some dough when he signs and, subsequently, the club defenestrates Wes Welker, then one of his tight ends — the crazy party dude — seems to have developed unsolvable medical issues, while the other one of his tight ends — the heavily tattooed dude — gets roped into a homicide case and may be spending at least most of the summer trying to avoid the hoosegow. Danny Amendola's in for a rough training camp.)

The vetting process for college kids who want careers in the NFL is already intrusive. The draft process is already vile and (probably) utterly against antitrust law. Face facts. You are trying to determine if someone has enough "character" to make a living playing a brutal sport based on the fundamental immorality of destroying the human body for entertainment purposes. You are trying to assess the "character" of someone you're going to turn into a tool and a commodity anyway. The basic moral conundrum in the middle of all of this is not capable of being solved. All you can do is guess. So you guess. And you hope for the best. The remarkable thing is that more players don't end up like Aaron Hernandez.

Of course, we will have endless bloviating about what in Hernandez's "background" may have warned off the poor, misguided Patriots, had they only known, which I guarantee you they did. But, seriously, how are you supposed to "vet" a player so as to know whether he might get involved in killing a guy? Because he smoked some weed in college? Please, do not be stupid. Because of the "influences" around him while he was growing up? Please, do not go there at all. You might question why a player seems to be involved in so many unfortunate occurrences involving firearms, but then Wayne LaPierre will show up on your lawn, hurling anathemas and spittle at you. When Roger Goodell speaks out that it's too easy for everyone — not just NFL players, but their friends and "influences" who never get out of the places where poverty and crime go unremarked upon by the television hairdos — to get their hands on deadly weapons, then I'll buy the hype his sycophants ladle out.

When it is pointed out by enough people, in sports and out, that the culture they so deplore in music is the result of an armaments industry that will allow nothing to be done about the ceaseless flow of deadly iron into the neighborhoods where that culture brings that iron to bear, when they start worrying as much about Colt and Smith & Wesson as they do about rap music, then I'll take the condescending media talk about how Aaron Hernandez was raised without laughing too loudly. The NFL has the same problem the country has — too damn many people have too damn many guns.

Early Saturday morning, on Intervale Street in the Roxbury section of Boston, there was a "dispute" at a party. Three people, two men and a woman, were shot. All three of them are as dead as Odin Lloyd is. On Intervale Street, cops are working through the first real heat of the summer trying to find a guy in a maroon — or was it red? — car who might have been the shooter. These cops are working just as hard as the cops in North Attleborough. They will do their work unencumbered by minicams and television haircuts and armchair sociology. That's because whoever did the shooting doesn't count enough for that and, because of that, the victims do not count, either. I suspect the cops are just as happy about it, anyway. They're the ones who have to deal every sweltering day after sweltering day, hot night after hot night, with the consequences of the actions of the rich white men who arm the "gangsta culture" that the rich white men of sports talk radio will chew on endlessly as the saga of Aaron Hernandez stretches out through the summer. The Patriots should have known something was going on with this guy. Look at his friends. Look at his "track record" — or, if you're being really tough on the radio, his "rap sheet." He smoked some weed. He allegedly shot another dude in Florida.

With a gun, I might add.

That's the meal that will be made of Aaron Hernandez, all summer long, even if this case gets resolved and his involvement in the whole thing is revealed as having been minimal. There will always be a Bigger Story or a Larger Issue to yap about. Rap music. Tattoos. Low-riding jeans. "Entitlement," whatever in god's name that really means. And the carnage will go on, and the distant white men will continue to profit from the flow of more illegal iron into the places where the next Aaron Hernandez — and, indeed, the next Whitey Bulger — is just now coming up. I mean, hell, why "vet" Aaron Hernandez at all? He's a celebrity. He's armed. Now he's in the middle of a televised freak show. He's the damn American dream, walking.

 

[PatsWillWin]

People are really reaching to say that Hernandez had anything to do with this murder. Isn't it likely that alien came down from outer space, attempted to abduct Hernandez and his friends while they were playing hacky-sack in the industrial park, and one of his friends discharged a firearm at the aliens, accidentally hitting the victim several times? Then there was probably a pursuit on foot as Hernandez and his friends ran back to his mansion, part of which was captured by Hernandez on his phone's camera and later on his surveillance system. The aliens then destroy both Hernandez's phone and hard drive, and leave several paper bag alien stink bombs as revenge before beaming back up to their ship.

I say he plays in 2013.

 

[tdmills]

I've been trying to keep up, but I've got a couple questions and I don't think I've seen answers in this thread.

1. Has it been said whether Lloyd was killed where his body was found?

2. What is the deal with the car found "near" the crime scene? From the map, it looks like Hernandez's property borders on that of the industrial park where Lloyd was found. Was this car found parked in a field or the industrial park? Was the car one Hernandez rented or was it one he owned?

1. It's been reported he was killed where the body was found.

2. Not sure exactly where the car was. I believe it was a rental, and that it was missing a side mirror that the police searched for.

Just noticed something in another article. While there have been reports that he was killed where his body was found, they conflict with what the jogger who found the body said the police told him:

The jogger who found the body on Monday - who did not want to be identified - described what he saw to WBZ-TV: 'I saw an African-American male, probably 25-35 years old, decently dressed.

'He was stiff, motionless, one of the police officers came back later and said it looked the guy had been shot somewhere else and dumped here.'

Of course the cops may have thought differently once they had a chance to examine the scene. Not to mention the other report could have just plain been wrong. So I guess the answer is we're not sure.

Thanks. Good info.All the cleanup at Hernandez's house makes more sense if the murder happened there.

The "car found at the scene", if in any way connected to Hernandez seems so odd. Why leave it there, regardless of where the murder occurred. AH's house was only a mile away. Take it to get cleaned, home or preferably, drive it into a lake.

How does all of this make sense or piece together?

In my mind:

-murder happened at Hernandez' house

-body placed in car and driven to industrial park to be dumped(hence the original police quote and rental car parked somewhere else)

-someone destroys home security system that could've recorded it

-phone destroyed with hate texts/video/pics/etc

-clean up crew hired to get rid of evidence

 

[LarryAllen'sJockstrap]

I've been trying to keep up, but I've got a couple questions and I don't think I've seen answers in this thread.

1. Has it been said whether Lloyd was killed where his body was found?

2. What is the deal with the car found "near" the crime scene? From the map, it looks like Hernandez's property borders on that of the industrial park where Lloyd was found. Was this car found parked in a field or the industrial park? Was the car one Hernandez rented or was it one he owned?

1. It's been reported he was killed where the body was found.

2. Not sure exactly where the car was. I believe it was a rental, and that it was missing a side mirror that the police searched for.

Just noticed something in another article. While there have been reports that he was killed where his body was found, they conflict with what the jogger who found the body said the police told him:

The jogger who found the body on Monday - who did not want to be identified - described what he saw to WBZ-TV: 'I saw an African-American male, probably 25-35 years old, decently dressed.

'He was stiff, motionless, one of the police officers came back later and said it looked the guy had been shot somewhere else and dumped here.'

Of course the cops may have thought differently once they had a chance to examine the scene. Not to mention the other report could have just plain been wrong. So I guess the answer is we're not sure.

Thanks. Good info.All the cleanup at Hernandez's house makes more sense if the murder happened there.

The "car found at the scene", if in any way connected to Hernandez seems so odd. Why leave it there, regardless of where the murder occurred. AH's house was only a mile away. Take it to get cleaned, home or preferably, drive it into a lake.

How does all of this make sense or piece together?

In my mind:

-murder happened at Hernandez' house

-body placed in car and driven to industrial park to be dumped(hence the original police quote and rental car parked somewhere else)

-someone destroys home security system that could've recorded it

-phone destroyed with hate texts/video/pics/etc

-clean up crew hired to get rid of evidence

That seems like a decently possibly scenario.

The only that is so bizarre is why they'd leave the car anywhere near the body, drop area. They were smart enough to destroy the survellience tape and get the house cleaned, you'd think they'd get rid of the car. They'd have to realize it would have to have their DNA , blood, fingerprints...

 

[Sinn Fein]

Phone was probably destroyed for any GPS evidence, rather than texts, photos, videos, etc, imo.

 

[heidbrink]

So...

The cleaners have scuba gear. They also can destroy electronic equipment permanently. Got to say, The Wolf has nothing on these guys.

 

[heidbrink]

So...

The cleaners have scuba gear. They also can destroy electronic equipment permanently. Got to say, The Wolf has nothing on these guys.

I suppose they were too late to take care of the car and body...

 

[heidbrink]

Is this not the most bizarre story that one could imagine this off-season. I honestly had zero idea that Aaron Hernandez was anywhere near the level of an ####### that he apparently is.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

Phone was probably destroyed for any GPS evidence, rather than texts, photos, videos, etc, imo.

I'm pretty sure destroying the phone isn't going to get rid of where it was in the past.

 

[JackReacher]

Phone was probably destroyed for any GPS evidence, rather than texts, photos, videos, etc, imo.

I'm not sure but I believe his provider would still have the GPS record regardless of if the phone was destroyed

 

[TakiToki]

If we accept that AH is a moron, then I don't see why it's a huge stretch (no homo) for him to destroy phone/video because of silly things like pot smoking and sex stuff when he knows that's all going to be public. I could see anything from totally innocent to being the murderer at this point. Obviously, "totally innocent" isn't the favorite.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

To prove obstruction of justice, wouldn't the state have to prove that their was actually a crime committed on Hernandez's property to obstruct to?

Previously posted from Wikipedia:

Obstruction charges can also be laid if a person alters or destroys physical evidence, even if he was under no compulsion at any time to produce such evidence. Often, no actual investigation or substantiated suspicion of a specific incident need exist to support a charge of obstruction of justice.

So basically I'm obstructing justice by walking across a dirt field because a criminal could have walked across that same field the night before and I removed shoe prints? I get if the rumors of what Hernandez did are true are worse than that example but our laws and court system are pretty stupid sometimes. To me it's becoming more and more obvious not that Hernandez is going to prison for a long time but that the investigators don't have squat on the guy and won't be able to do anything unless he talks. So they come up with a trumped up BS charge to force him into talking.

No that is not how it works. First it is about intent and if a person has possible knowledge of an alleged crime. Walking through a field is one thing, walking through to intentionally cover tracks of a possible assailant could be obstruction. See the difference

So the state would have to prove that Hernandez knew a crime was committed and prove that evidence was in his house to prove that he had intent to cover up a crime?

 

[heidbrink]

If we accept that AH is a moron....

That much I think we can accept at this point. Given that, the rest is really anybody's guess. What would Larry Curly and Moe do?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Article on Grantland today by Charles Pierce regarding this ordeal.. good stuff IMO.

June 24, 2013 12:00 AM ET

The American Way

By Charles P. Pierce

...

The vetting process for college kids who want careers in the NFL is already intrusive. The draft process is already vile and (probably) utterly against antitrust law. Face facts. You are trying to determine if someone has enough "character" to make a living playing a brutal sport based on the fundamental immorality of destroying the human body for entertainment purposes. You are trying to assess the "character" of someone you're going to turn into a tool and a commodity anyway. The basic moral conundrum in the middle of all of this is not capable of being solved. All you can do is guess. So you guess. And you hope for the best. The remarkable thing is that more players don't end up like Aaron Hernandez.

Of course, we will have endless bloviating about what in Hernandez's "background" may have warned off the poor, misguided Patriots, had they only known, which I guarantee you they did. But, seriously, how are you supposed to "vet" a player so as to know whether he might get involved in killing a guy? Because he smoked some weed in college? Please, do not be stupid. Because of the "influences" around him while he was growing up? Please, do not go there at all. You might question why a player seems to be involved in so many unfortunate occurrences involving firearms, but then Wayne LaPierre will show up on your lawn, hurling anathemas and spittle at you. When Roger Goodell speaks out that it's too easy for everyone — not just NFL players, but their friends and "influences" who never get out of the places where poverty and crime go unremarked upon by the television hairdos — to get their hands on deadly weapons, then I'll buy the hype his sycophants ladle out.

When it is pointed out by enough people, in sports and out, that the culture they so deplore in music is the result of an armaments industry that will allow nothing to be done about the ceaseless flow of deadly iron into the neighborhoods where that culture brings that iron to bear, when they start worrying as much about Colt and Smith & Wesson as they do about rap music, then I'll take the condescending media talk about how Aaron Hernandez was raised without laughing too loudly. The NFL has the same problem the country has — too damn many people have too damn many guns.

Early Saturday morning, on Intervale Street in the Roxbury section of Boston, there was a "dispute" at a party. Three people, two men and a woman, were shot. All three of them are as dead as Odin Lloyd is. On Intervale Street, cops are working through the first real heat of the summer trying to find a guy in a maroon — or was it red? — car who might have been the shooter. These cops are working just as hard as the cops in North Attleborough. They will do their work unencumbered by minicams and television haircuts and armchair sociology. That's because whoever did the shooting doesn't count enough for that and, because of that, the victims do not count, either. I suspect the cops are just as happy about it, anyway. They're the ones who have to deal every sweltering day after sweltering day, hot night after hot night, with the consequences of the actions of the rich white men who arm the "gangsta culture" that the rich white men of sports talk radio will chew on endlessly as the saga of Aaron Hernandez stretches out through the summer. The Patriots should have known something was going on with this guy. Look at his friends. Look at his "track record" — or, if you're being really tough on the radio, his "rap sheet." He smoked some weed. He allegedly shot another dude in Florida.

With a gun, I might add.

That's the meal that will be made of Aaron Hernandez, all summer long, even if this case gets resolved and his involvement in the whole thing is revealed as having been minimal. There will always be a Bigger Story or a Larger Issue to yap about. Rap music. Tattoos. Low-riding jeans. "Entitlement," whatever in god's name that really means. And the carnage will go on, and the distant white men will continue to profit from the flow of more illegal iron into the places where the next Aaron Hernandez — and, indeed, the next Whitey Bulger — is just now coming up. I mean, hell, why "vet" Aaron Hernandez at all? He's a celebrity. He's armed. Now he's in the middle of a televised freak show. He's the damn American dream, walking.

Holy cow... anyone read this?

It's really a FFA topic, but this is beyond gratuitous racialization and politicization of this issue for what is supposed to be a sports oriented site (Grantland).

 

[werdnoynek]

Article on Grantland today by Charles Pierce regarding this ordeal.. good stuff IMO.

June 24, 2013 12:00 AM ET

The American Way

By Charles P. Pierce

...

The vetting process for college kids who want careers in the NFL is already intrusive. The draft process is already vile and (probably) utterly against antitrust law. Face facts. You are trying to determine if someone has enough "character" to make a living playing a brutal sport based on the fundamental immorality of destroying the human body for entertainment purposes. You are trying to assess the "character" of someone you're going to turn into a tool and a commodity anyway. The basic moral conundrum in the middle of all of this is not capable of being solved. All you can do is guess. So you guess. And you hope for the best. The remarkable thing is that more players don't end up like Aaron Hernandez.

Of course, we will have endless bloviating about what in Hernandez's "background" may have warned off the poor, misguided Patriots, had they only known, which I guarantee you they did. But, seriously, how are you supposed to "vet" a player so as to know whether he might get involved in killing a guy? Because he smoked some weed in college? Please, do not be stupid. Because of the "influences" around him while he was growing up? Please, do not go there at all. You might question why a player seems to be involved in so many unfortunate occurrences involving firearms, but then Wayne LaPierre will show up on your lawn, hurling anathemas and spittle at you. When Roger Goodell speaks out that it's too easy for everyone — not just NFL players, but their friends and "influences" who never get out of the places where poverty and crime go unremarked upon by the television hairdos — to get their hands on deadly weapons, then I'll buy the hype his sycophants ladle out.

When it is pointed out by enough people, in sports and out, that the culture they so deplore in music is the result of an armaments industry that will allow nothing to be done about the ceaseless flow of deadly iron into the neighborhoods where that culture brings that iron to bear, when they start worrying as much about Colt and Smith & Wesson as they do about rap music, then I'll take the condescending media talk about how Aaron Hernandez was raised without laughing too loudly. The NFL has the same problem the country has — too damn many people have too damn many guns.

Early Saturday morning, on Intervale Street in the Roxbury section of Boston, there was a "dispute" at a party. Three people, two men and a woman, were shot. All three of them are as dead as Odin Lloyd is. On Intervale Street, cops are working through the first real heat of the summer trying to find a guy in a maroon — or was it red? — car who might have been the shooter. These cops are working just as hard as the cops in North Attleborough. They will do their work unencumbered by minicams and television haircuts and armchair sociology. That's because whoever did the shooting doesn't count enough for that and, because of that, the victims do not count, either. I suspect the cops are just as happy about it, anyway. They're the ones who have to deal every sweltering day after sweltering day, hot night after hot night, with the consequences of the actions of the rich white men who arm the "gangsta culture" that the rich white men of sports talk radio will chew on endlessly as the saga of Aaron Hernandez stretches out through the summer. The Patriots should have known something was going on with this guy. Look at his friends. Look at his "track record" — or, if you're being really tough on the radio, his "rap sheet." He smoked some weed. He allegedly shot another dude in Florida.

With a gun, I might add.

That's the meal that will be made of Aaron Hernandez, all summer long, even if this case gets resolved and his involvement in the whole thing is revealed as having been minimal. There will always be a Bigger Story or a Larger Issue to yap about. Rap music. Tattoos. Low-riding jeans. "Entitlement," whatever in god's name that really means. And the carnage will go on, and the distant white men will continue to profit from the flow of more illegal iron into the places where the next Aaron Hernandez — and, indeed, the next Whitey Bulger — is just now coming up. I mean, hell, why "vet" Aaron Hernandez at all? He's a celebrity. He's armed. Now he's in the middle of a televised freak show. He's the damn American dream, walking.

Holy cow... anyone read this?

It's really a FFA topic, but this is beyond gratuitous racialization and politicization of this issue for what is supposed to be a sports oriented site (Grantland).

I feel it's fitting. Especially for this thread. Gratuitous? Not in the least bit, IMO.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Article on Grantland today by Charles Pierce regarding this ordeal.. good stuff IMO.

June 24, 2013 12:00 AM ET

The American Way

By Charles P. Pierce

...

The vetting process for college kids who want careers in the NFL is already intrusive. The draft process is already vile and (probably) utterly against antitrust law. Face facts. You are trying to determine if someone has enough "character" to make a living playing a brutal sport based on the fundamental immorality of destroying the human body for entertainment purposes. You are trying to assess the "character" of someone you're going to turn into a tool and a commodity anyway. The basic moral conundrum in the middle of all of this is not capable of being solved. All you can do is guess. So you guess. And you hope for the best. The remarkable thing is that more players don't end up like Aaron Hernandez.

Of course, we will have endless bloviating about what in Hernandez's "background" may have warned off the poor, misguided Patriots, had they only known, which I guarantee you they did. But, seriously, how are you supposed to "vet" a player so as to know whether he might get involved in killing a guy? Because he smoked some weed in college? Please, do not be stupid. Because of the "influences" around him while he was growing up? Please, do not go there at all. You might question why a player seems to be involved in so many unfortunate occurrences involving firearms, but then Wayne LaPierre will show up on your lawn, hurling anathemas and spittle at you. When Roger Goodell speaks out that it's too easy for everyone — not just NFL players, but their friends and "influences" who never get out of the places where poverty and crime go unremarked upon by the television hairdos — to get their hands on deadly weapons, then I'll buy the hype his sycophants ladle out.

When it is pointed out by enough people, in sports and out, that the culture they so deplore in music is the result of an armaments industry that will allow nothing to be done about the ceaseless flow of deadly iron into the neighborhoods where that culture brings that iron to bear, when they start worrying as much about Colt and Smith & Wesson as they do about rap music, then I'll take the condescending media talk about how Aaron Hernandez was raised without laughing too loudly. The NFL has the same problem the country has — too damn many people have too damn many guns.

Early Saturday morning, on Intervale Street in the Roxbury section of Boston, there was a "dispute" at a party. Three people, two men and a woman, were shot. All three of them are as dead as Odin Lloyd is. On Intervale Street, cops are working through the first real heat of the summer trying to find a guy in a maroon — or was it red? — car who might have been the shooter. These cops are working just as hard as the cops in North Attleborough. They will do their work unencumbered by minicams and television haircuts and armchair sociology. That's because whoever did the shooting doesn't count enough for that and, because of that, the victims do not count, either. I suspect the cops are just as happy about it, anyway. They're the ones who have to deal every sweltering day after sweltering day, hot night after hot night, with the consequences of the actions of the rich white men who arm the "gangsta culture" that the rich white men of sports talk radio will chew on endlessly as the saga of Aaron Hernandez stretches out through the summer. The Patriots should have known something was going on with this guy. Look at his friends. Look at his "track record" — or, if you're being really tough on the radio, his "rap sheet." He smoked some weed. He allegedly shot another dude in Florida.

With a gun, I might add.

That's the meal that will be made of Aaron Hernandez, all summer long, even if this case gets resolved and his involvement in the whole thing is revealed as having been minimal. There will always be a Bigger Story or a Larger Issue to yap about. Rap music. Tattoos. Low-riding jeans. "Entitlement," whatever in god's name that really means. And the carnage will go on, and the distant white men will continue to profit from the flow of more illegal iron into the places where the next Aaron Hernandez — and, indeed, the next Whitey Bulger — is just now coming up. I mean, hell, why "vet" Aaron Hernandez at all? He's a celebrity. He's armed. Now he's in the middle of a televised freak show. He's the damn American dream, walking.

Holy cow... anyone read this?

It's really a FFA topic, but this is beyond gratuitous racialization and politicization of this issue for what is supposed to be a sports oriented site (Grantland).

I feel it's fitting. Especially for this thread. Gratuitous? Not in the least bit, IMO.

I have no problem with you posting it by the way (of course), I'm just commenting on Pierce's piece in Grantland.

There are threads that talk about football implications, and threads that talk about the facts of the case and the ongoing investigation.

And I'd say discussions about how teams can spot possible character risks are very much on point.

But somehow attributing what Hernandez is involved in to "white men [who] will continue to profit from the flow of more illegal iron" as stated ine the final conclusory paragraph just seems way, way, way far afield.

 

[werdnoynek]

Article on Grantland today by Charles Pierce regarding this ordeal.. good stuff IMO.

June 24, 2013 12:00 AM ET

The American Way

By Charles P. Pierce

...

The vetting process for college kids who want careers in the NFL is already intrusive. The draft process is already vile and (probably) utterly against antitrust law. Face facts. You are trying to determine if someone has enough "character" to make a living playing a brutal sport based on the fundamental immorality of destroying the human body for entertainment purposes. You are trying to assess the "character" of someone you're going to turn into a tool and a commodity anyway. The basic moral conundrum in the middle of all of this is not capable of being solved. All you can do is guess. So you guess. And you hope for the best. The remarkable thing is that more players don't end up like Aaron Hernandez.

Of course, we will have endless bloviating about what in Hernandez's "background" may have warned off the poor, misguided Patriots, had they only known, which I guarantee you they did. But, seriously, how are you supposed to "vet" a player so as to know whether he might get involved in killing a guy? Because he smoked some weed in college? Please, do not be stupid. Because of the "influences" around him while he was growing up? Please, do not go there at all. You might question why a player seems to be involved in so many unfortunate occurrences involving firearms, but then Wayne LaPierre will show up on your lawn, hurling anathemas and spittle at you. When Roger Goodell speaks out that it's too easy for everyone — not just NFL players, but their friends and "influences" who never get out of the places where poverty and crime go unremarked upon by the television hairdos — to get their hands on deadly weapons, then I'll buy the hype his sycophants ladle out.

When it is pointed out by enough people, in sports and out, that the culture they so deplore in music is the result of an armaments industry that will allow nothing to be done about the ceaseless flow of deadly iron into the neighborhoods where that culture brings that iron to bear, when they start worrying as much about Colt and Smith & Wesson as they do about rap music, then I'll take the condescending media talk about how Aaron Hernandez was raised without laughing too loudly. The NFL has the same problem the country has — too damn many people have too damn many guns.

Early Saturday morning, on Intervale Street in the Roxbury section of Boston, there was a "dispute" at a party. Three people, two men and a woman, were shot. All three of them are as dead as Odin Lloyd is. On Intervale Street, cops are working through the first real heat of the summer trying to find a guy in a maroon — or was it red? — car who might have been the shooter. These cops are working just as hard as the cops in North Attleborough. They will do their work unencumbered by minicams and television haircuts and armchair sociology. That's because whoever did the shooting doesn't count enough for that and, because of that, the victims do not count, either. I suspect the cops are just as happy about it, anyway. They're the ones who have to deal every sweltering day after sweltering day, hot night after hot night, with the consequences of the actions of the rich white men who arm the "gangsta culture" that the rich white men of sports talk radio will chew on endlessly as the saga of Aaron Hernandez stretches out through the summer. The Patriots should have known something was going on with this guy. Look at his friends. Look at his "track record" — or, if you're being really tough on the radio, his "rap sheet." He smoked some weed. He allegedly shot another dude in Florida.

With a gun, I might add.

That's the meal that will be made of Aaron Hernandez, all summer long, even if this case gets resolved and his involvement in the whole thing is revealed as having been minimal. There will always be a Bigger Story or a Larger Issue to yap about. Rap music. Tattoos. Low-riding jeans. "Entitlement," whatever in god's name that really means. And the carnage will go on, and the distant white men will continue to profit from the flow of more illegal iron into the places where the next Aaron Hernandez — and, indeed, the next Whitey Bulger — is just now coming up. I mean, hell, why "vet" Aaron Hernandez at all? He's a celebrity. He's armed. Now he's in the middle of a televised freak show. He's the damn American dream, walking.

Holy cow... anyone read this?

It's really a FFA topic, but this is beyond gratuitous racialization and politicization of this issue for what is supposed to be a sports oriented site (Grantland).

I feel it's fitting. Especially for this thread. Gratuitous? Not in the least bit, IMO.

I have no problem with you posting it by the way (of course), I'm just commenting on Pierce's piece in Grantland.

There are threads that talk about football implications, and threads that talk about the facts of the case and the ongoing investigation.

And I'd say discussions about how teams can spot possible character risks are very much on point.

But somehow attributing what Hernandez is involved in to "white men [who] will continue to profit from the flow of more illegal iron" as stated ine the final conclusory paragraph just seems way, way, way far afield.

[SIZE=10.5pt]The whole anti-gun overtone of the article is a bit much for me too, to be honest - I didn't exactly understand what you were referring to. Anyway, I think he raises some good points though regarding the media and society as a whole and their reaction to celebrities involved with murder. You're right though, this isn't the place to get into this discussion. The thread is already saturated with enough off topic rants. My apologies. [/SIZE]

 

[cstu]

Within days of draft, Hernandez threatened Welker

Posted by Darin Gantt on June 21, 2013, 10:07 AM EDT

AP

Stories continue to accumulate about the signs in Aaron Hernandez’s background, stories that paint a more complete if complicated picture about his character.

And according to the Boston Globe, he flashed a temper and made threats to one of the Patriots’ respected veterans within days of arriving for work.

In an anecdote near the bottom of a longer report, it was mentioned that Hernandez was at the team facility trying to watch film, when he grew frustrated at not being able to operate the equipment. Wide receiver Wes Welker walked by, Hernandez asked for help, and Welker replied: “Rookie, you figure it out.”

According to the report, Hernandez “responded with expletives.”

The Globe being a family publication, didn’t expound, but one of their reporters did on Twitter.

According to Shalise Manza Young, Hernandez’s reply was “f— you Wes, I’ll f— you up!“

While rookies getting their backs up with veterans is not an uncommon act, the threat within a few days of being drafted was unusual, and as was noted, it was not said in a joking manner.

It was also reported in the newspaper that Hernandez spent “little, if any time with his Patriots teammates off the field,” preferring to surround himself with friends from his old neighborhood.

Taken on its own, the story might not be that big of a deal, especially within the legal context of “innocent until proven guilty.”

But coupled with everything else we’ve learned about Hernandez this week, it adds to the pile of anecdotal evidence which is becoming harder to ignore.

 

[werdnoynek]

Looks like his attny has issued a statement - it's being posted on twitter, will wait for a full article to post...

https://twitter.com/WesleyLowery check out this timeline for details... too many tweets to transfer over.

ETA: I thought there was more ... here you go.

Just in -- Aaron #Hernadez's lawyer issues sharply worded statement decrying "false and misleading" reports that an arrest warrant issued.

#Hernandez's attorney Michael Kay says his client “the subject of a relentless flood of rumors, misinformation & false reports in the media"

"These include repeated publication of supposedly confirmed report an arrest warrant had been issued for Aaron, a report exposed as untrue"

"None of false reports come from official sources and we appreciate the professionalism & restraint shown by the Bristol County DA"

 

[KCitons]

So AH's lawyer issues a statement...........

..........Reprimanding the media for falsely reporting that an arrest warrant has been issued.

That is all.

 

[ghostguy123]

Within days of draft, Hernandez threatened Welker

Posted by Darin Gantt on June 21, 2013, 10:07 AM EDT

AP

Stories continue to accumulate about the signs in Aaron Hernandez’s background, stories that paint a more complete if complicated picture about his character.

And according to the Boston Globe, he flashed a temper and made threats to one of the Patriots’ respected veterans within days of arriving for work.

In an anecdote near the bottom of a longer report, it was mentioned that Hernandez was at the team facility trying to watch film, when he grew frustrated at not being able to operate the equipment. Wide receiver Wes Welker walked by, Hernandez asked for help, and Welker replied: “Rookie, you figure it out.”

According to the report, Hernandez “responded with expletives.”

The Globe being a family publication, didn’t expound, but one of their reporters did on Twitter.

According to Shalise Manza Young, Hernandez’s reply was “f— you Wes, I’ll f— you up!“

While rookies getting their backs up with veterans is not an uncommon act, the threat within a few days of being drafted was unusual, and as was noted, it was not said in a joking manner.

It was also reported in the newspaper that Hernandez spent “little, if any time with his Patriots teammates off the field,” preferring to surround himself with friends from his old neighborhood.

Taken on its own, the story might not be that big of a deal, especially within the legal context of “innocent until proven guilty.”

But coupled with everything else we’ve learned about Hernandez this week, it adds to the pile of anecdotal evidence which is becoming harder to ignore.

He did it, or was there for it, and was involved. I highly doubt anyone doubts this.

Just a matter of what they can actually prove, and who they can actually prove did it. And since this is a fantasy football forum and I don;t care to discuss what I think should happen to the guy and have no affiliation to him whatsoever outside of fantasy football, I will go ahead and say I feel halfway confident he WILL play again, and a halfway decent chance he sees no jail time and plays by 2014.

Nobody is drafting him in redraft.

And since this is a FF forum for the most part and there are many dynasty owners/buyers/sellers of Hern on here, my feeling is he still retains a good chunk of his value. I would't sell low. I wouldnt pay through the nose but would still give a later 1st this year or projected late 1st next year.

I personally put the success rate of mid-late 1st rounders about the same as I put the chances or hernandez playing again the next 2 years. And since I know he is a very good player, he is my preference.

 

[heidbrink]

Bailiff, whack his PP.

 

[ghostguy123]

So AH's lawyer issues a statement...........

..........Reprimanding the media for falsely reporting that an arrest warrant has been issued.

That is all.

haha, right. His lawyer doesnt want anyone to think bad thoughts about his sad little client.

His lawyer should be preparing a case,not watching TV and reading message boards.

 

[ghostguy123]

To prove obstruction of justice, wouldn't the state have to prove that their was actually a crime committed on Hernandez's property to obstruct to?

No, I don't believe so. He's obstructing the investigation, whether it turns out the investigation was warranted or leads to anything or not. I could be wrong, though.

dont you have to know there is an investigation going on that you are obstructing, specifically if you are destroying things on your own property?

I mean, it sure looks bad and obvious, but still needs to be proven

 

[ghostguy123]

To prove obstruction of justice, wouldn't the state have to prove that their was actually a crime committed on Hernandez's property to obstruct to?

Previously posted from Wikipedia:

Obstruction charges can also be laid if a person alters or destroys physical evidence, even if he was under no compulsion at any time to produce such evidence. Often, no actual investigation or substantiated suspicion of a specific incident need exist to support a charge of obstruction of justice.

well nevermind then

I guess we should just all hope that the next time we get mad and throw our phones against the wall that the police dont come knocking asking for it for evidence, or else you will be charged with obstruction, lol.

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

I gotta say, that statement is pretty passive if you're representing an innocent client. I understand no charges have been made and there's probably a fear of denying something you have not been accused of. However, that being said, if I were innocent of any wrongdoing, I'd insist - and I think a good atty would agree - my statement include that I have not been involved in a murder....My optimism toward AH's innocence just decreased a little after reading that statement.

Oh and... GOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLL! Go Hawks!

E2A: Atty statement

 

[ghostguy123]

So basically I'm obstructing justice by walking across a dirt field because a criminal could have walked across that same field the night before and I removed shoe prints?

Not unless you knew it was a crime scene and did it to destroy/obscure evidence. The charge requires intent.

But dont you also have to prove the intent? How do they prove what you know, is what he is asking I think.

Seems like they have a lot of other things to prove before they can prove obstruction.......and if they do prove those things, obstruction might be the least of his worries.

 

[Sinn Fein]

I wonder if any of AH's cars or rental cars have GPS tracking.

The smart money here is on completely getting rid of the gun on Monday - somewhere far away and not logically connected to AH or his associates. If one of them, or a girlfriend drove it away Monday, nobody is finding it. And AH is not worried about any trace evidence (other than blood) on his clothes or in his home because he goes running in that industrial park all the time.

 

[KCitons]

I gotta say, that statement is pretty passive if you're representing an innocent client. I understand no charges have been made and there's probably a fear of denying something you have not been accused of. However, that being said, if I were innocent of any wrongdoing, I'd insist - and I think a good atty would agree - my statement include that I have not been involved in a murder....My optimism toward AH's innocence just decreased a little after reading that statement.

Oh and... GOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLL! Go Hawks!

E2A: Atty statement

1st off. LOL on the goal. Go Hawks.

Secondly, wouldn't the lawyer include some type of condolences for the deceased. Especially since he was a friend of AH's (or was he????)

 

[ghostguy123]

I wonder if any of AH's cars or rental cars have GPS tracking.

The smart money here is on completely getting rid of the gun on Monday - somewhere far away and not logically connected to AH or his associates. If one of them, or a girlfriend drove it away Monday, nobody is finding it. And AH is not worried about any trace evidence (other than blood) on his clothes or in his home because he goes running in that industrial park all the time.

Maybe it's why they are combing that pond or whatever.

I can see them doing that thinking it is possible a gun coulda been tossed their, or maybe they got some information leading them to believe that's where it was tossed.

Or it's a training exercise.

Man, whoever said this is the strangest case ever wasn't kidding. The facts mixed with speculation.. .........It's almost like the media is TRYING to create another OJ media frenzy.

That won't happen though. Far less people care about Hernandez than OJ. Most people don't even know who he is.

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

I gotta say, that statement is pretty passive if you're representing an innocent client. I understand no charges have been made and there's probably a fear of denying something you have not been accused of. However, that being said, if I were innocent of any wrongdoing, I'd insist - and I think a good atty would agree - my statement include that I have not been involved in a murder....My optimism toward AH's innocence just decreased a little after reading that statement.

Oh and... GOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLL! Go Hawks!

E2A: Atty statement

1st off. LOL on the goal. Go Hawks.

Secondly, wouldn't the lawyer include some type of condolences for the deceased. Especially since he was a friend of AH's (or was he????)

Another good point. That statement just reeks of being overly neutral for the sake of hiding guilt.

 

[mad sweeney]

I wonder if any of AH's cars or rental cars have GPS tracking.

The smart money here is on completely getting rid of the gun on Monday - somewhere far away and not logically connected to AH or his associates. If one of them, or a girlfriend drove it away Monday, nobody is finding it. And AH is not worried about any trace evidence (other than blood) on his clothes or in his home because he goes running in that industrial park all the time.

Maybe it's why they are combing that pond or whatever.

I can see them doing that thinking it is possible a gun coulda been tossed their, or maybe they got some information leading them to believe that's where it was tossed.

Or it's a training exercise.

Man, whoever said this is the strangest case ever wasn't kidding. The facts mixed with speculation.. .........It's almost like the media is TRYING to create another OJ media frenzy.

That won't happen though. Far less people care about Hernandez than OJ. Most people don't even know who he is.

It's not even the strangest case of this year, much less ever.

 

[domvin]

Whens the deceased's funeral? Id have to think that AH is basically an extension of family, Not going will be viewed as damning...... Going he would be persecuted....

 

[ghostguy123]

Whens the deceased's funeral? Id have to think that AH is basically an extension of family, Not going will be viewed as damning...... Going he would be persecuted....

Going would just be wrong even if he truly was not involved. Even if he was completely innocent of everything, it would just be common decency not to attend the funeral of someone when everyone thinks you were involved in his death, right or wrong. A private message to the family would be much more appropriate.

Not going is no indication of anything.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

To prove obstruction of justice, wouldn't the state have to prove that their was actually a crime committed on Hernandez's property to obstruct to?

No, just that a police investigation was either pending or likely to occur.

If Hernandez was destroying stuff specifically so that it would be useless to the police (and really, what other reason would there be?), that would support an obstruction charge.

 

[squistion]

I knew it was too good to be true

ghostguy -> please do everyone a favor and stop.

May as well. hernandez is going to prison, football career over.

Why is anyone even following this thread anymore?? It's done, prison, career, all of it.

Peace

dont you have to know there is an investigation going on that you are obstructing, specifically if you are destroying things on your own property? I mean, it sure looks bad and obvious, but still needs to be proven

 

[domvin]

Whens the deceased's funeral? Id have to think that AH is basically an extension of family, Not going will be viewed as damning...... Going he would be persecuted....

Going would just be wrong even if he truly was not involved. Even if he was completely innocent of everything, it would just be common decency not to attend the funeral of someone when everyone thinks you were involved in his death, right or wrong. A private message to the family would be much more appropriate.

Not going is no indication of anything.

I see both sidesy, I also think hes in a no win situation. Goes.... He has no conscience, does not go, public thinks he is more guilty

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

So basically I'm obstructing justice by walking across a dirt field because a criminal could have walked across that same field the night before and I removed shoe prints?

Not unless you knew it was a crime scene and did it to destroy/obscure evidence. The charge requires intent.

But dont you also have to prove the intent? How do they prove what you know, is what he is asking I think.

Seems like they have a lot of other things to prove before they can prove obstruction.......and if they do prove those things, obstruction might be the least of his worries.

Intent is easily inferred from the act of destruction. Why else would he have destroyed his cell phone if not to impede the police investigation? Why else would he have have erased the video footage?

He can tell the jury that he had no idea that the police would be interested in his phone, and he smashed it simply because he got tired of its ringtone, but that probably wouldn't be believable. Maybe he has a believable reason, but until I hear it, I can't imagine what it might be.

 

[GregR]

To prove obstruction of justice, wouldn't the state have to prove that their was actually a crime committed on Hernandez's property to obstruct to?

Previously posted from Wikipedia:

Obstruction charges can also be laid if a person alters or destroys physical evidence, even if he was under no compulsion at any time to produce such evidence. Often, no actual investigation or substantiated suspicion of a specific incident need exist to support a charge of obstruction of justice.

well nevermind then

I guess we should just all hope that the next time we get mad and throw our phones against the wall that the police dont come knocking asking for it for evidence, or else you will be charged with obstruction, lol.

The point of the law is to make it illegal to hinder a criminal investigation. It wouldn't make much sense to leave it legal to do so, so long as you haven't received notice of an investigation, or so long as the crime hasn't yet been reported.