Hey Charger Fans (1 Viewer)

[Maurile Tremblay]

Also, there's nothing to show that AJ even preferred Manning over Rivers.

He said he preferred Manning over Rivers, even right after he traded for Rivers. It's possible he just said that as part of the negotiation process (heading off Rivers' anticipated argument that he should be paid like the #1 pick), but it's also possible he was telling the truth. It's hard to know.

 

[SSOG]

Brees earned more ProTrade dividends than E.Manning this year, which I think are the best measure of a player's statistical effectiveness.

Incorrect. ProTrade is based off of DVOA, the proprietary stats of that indie website I keep pimping, www.footballoutsiders.com. Protrade measures improvements as well as performance, while DVOA is strictly performance.

Where did you hear/read this? (Are you perhaps thinking of stock prices instead of dividends?) Dividends are awarded based only on changes in net expected scoring, as explained here. It's based only on performance.

Mea Culpa. I'd never read their methodologies before, I'd only seen the articles comparing a player's portfolio value to past years, and assumed that it was based on improvement/regressions.

Also, there's nothing to show that AJ even preferred Manning over Rivers.

He said he preferred Manning over Rivers, even right after he traded for Rivers. It's possible he just said that as part of the negotiation process (heading off Rivers' anticipated argument that he should be paid like the #1 pick), but it's also possible he was telling the truth. It's hard to know.

Link? All I remember at the time was the Chargers going on about how they got the guy they REALLY wanted.Either way, though, it's as you said- just because he drafted Manning #1 overall doesn't mean that Manning was the guy he wanted all along.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Also, there's nothing to show that AJ even preferred Manning over Rivers.

He said he preferred Manning over Rivers, even right after he traded for Rivers. It's possible he just said that as part of the negotiation process (heading off Rivers' anticipated argument that he should be paid like the #1 pick), but it's also possible he was telling the truth. It's hard to know.

Link? All I remember at the time was the Chargers going on about how they got the guy they REALLY wanted.

It was on ESPN's draft coverage when AJ was interviewed right after the trade. The reporter (I forgot who it was) asked whether he had Manning or Rivers rated higher. Aj answered that they drafted the guy at #1 whom they rated the highest.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Chargers front office has been absolutely killing it on draft day. The Vick deal was an absolute steal in retrospect - they got more than they probably should have for Manning, and they dominated the first round last year. Charger fans should be very happy with the job their personnel guys are doing.

 

[DPRugby]

Chargers front office has been absolutely killing it on draft day. The Vick deal was an absolute steal in retrospect - they got more than they probably should have for Manning, and they dominated the first round last year. Charger fans should be very happy with the job their personnel guys are doing.

Now if they could only draft a better coach. F'ing Martyball...

 

[56]

You think those statistics show 2 pretty even seasons? ARE YOU HIGH?

Drew Brees's QB rating was 10th, immediately behind Plummer, Green, and Leftwich. Eli's QB rating was 23rd, immediately behind Collins, Carr, and Dilfer. Oh yeah, clearly those are "pretty even" seasons. Clearly, any objective viewer would conclude that David Carr and Trent Green are more or less the same ballpark.

Brees's YPA was 12th, behind Plummer, Bledsoe, and Warner. Eli's YPA was 17th, behind an injured McNabb, Dilfer, and McCown. Again, sure, that's just a minor difference. Really inconsequential, truly.

Completion percentage. Brees was 6th, right behind PEYTON Manning, Bulger, and Hasselbeck. Eli was 31st (out of 34 total), behind Aaron Brooks, Michael Vick, and Kerry Collins.

TD Percentage. Drew Brees, 10th in the NFL, right behind Leftwich, Brady, and Bulger. Eli Manning, 14th in the NFL, right behind Bledsoe, McNabb, and Holcomb. Actually, in this category, their seasons really WERE reasonably similar- although the edge still goes to Brees.

INT Percentage. Drew Brees, 18th. Eli Manning, 19th. Another marginal difference, although once again the edge goes to Brees, however thin it might be.

So, let's see... in TD and INT percentage, they were pretty close, although Brees got the edge in both categories. In Comp%, QBRating, and Yards per attempt, Brees blew Manning out of the water. Those are not SIMILAR seasons, that is clearly a FAR BETTER season by Brees- especially when you consider he played against the toughest schedule in the entire NFL.

Nice to see you out of the closet again.Tied in Tds. Manning had more yards. Brees had a better rating. Brees had a 2 INTs less. Manning is in the playoffs at a time in his career, when at a similar junction in his, Brees was labled a bust by that sharp SD front office.

Again, I have no dog in this fight. I am not a Chargers fan, I am not a Giants fan. If anything, as a Broncos fan, I probably dislike Eli Manning for forcing the trade less than most people. But facts are facts, and reality is reality- and the facts are, the reality is, that San Diego has been a better team without Manning than the Giants have been with him, and Drew Brees has been a DRASTICALLY better QB than Manning. I promise you, I *WISH* Eli Manning played for the Chargers and Brees for the Giants, because I'd rather face Manning twice a year and Brees once every 4 years than vice versa.

Just let me get this straight, Bronco fan.

A) Brees was the DRASTICALLY better QB when he lost to the Broncos twice this year.

B) You *WISH* you could face a QB 2 times a year, who in his only game against the Broncos, led his team on two 4th quarter drives to beat the Denver, including throwing the winning TD with 5 seconds left on the clock.

And you ask if I am HIGH.... LM*AO.

 

[SSOG]

Nice to see you out of the closet again.

Tied in Tds. Manning had more yards. Brees had a better rating. Brees had a 2 INTs less. Manning is in the playoffs at a time in his career, when at a similar junction in his, Brees was labled a bust by that sharp SD front office.

Touchdowns per attempt- Advantage: Brees.Interceptions per attempt- Advantage: Brees.

Yards per attempt- Advantage: Brees.

Passer rating- Advantage: Brees.

Completion percentage- Advantage: Brees.

Yes, I can see how one could argue that Eli Manning had a similar season to Drew Brees, who beat him out in every single category.

Over the last 8 games of the season, Eli Manning threw 10 TDs and 12 INTs. Reality is calling, it's time you came back.

Just let me get this straight, Bronco fan.

A) Brees was the DRASTICALLY better QB when he lost to the Broncos twice this year.

B) You *WISH* you could face a QB 2 times a year, who in his only game against the Broncos, led his team on two 4th quarter drives to beat the Denver, including throwing the winning TD with 5 seconds left on the clock.

And you ask if I am HIGH.... LM*AO.

Oh, we're going to play the "Player X lost to Team Y" card, eh? So if Eli Manning is such a better QB, why did his team get PASTED by the Chargers earlier in the season? And clearly Kyle Orton is a better QB than Brett Favre, since he went 2-0 against Favre.Now that we've left the realm of fantasy where QBs are the only players on the team, let's go back to the realm of reality. Here are Brees's stats against Denver this season, vs. Manning's:

Brees: 23 of 37 (62.1%) for 243 yards (6.57 per), 0 TDs, 1 INT

Manning: 23 of 42 (54.8%) for 214 yards (5.10 per), 2 TDs, 1 INT

Other than TDs (Brees had 2 vultured by Tomlinson), Brees has performed better against the Broncos this season than Manning. And that's just against 1 team. So *YES*, I would like to see Brees out of my division and replaced by Manning.

I always try very hard whenever I am on the boards to maintain my civility, and constantly remind myself to attack the arguement, not the poster... but you're testing my patience. You simply refuse to look at reality. REALITY is that I am not a Chargers fan, that I've got no stake whatsoever in this arguement, and that Brees's season was drastically better than Manning's.

If Eli Manning is so good, why didn't he even make the Pro Bowl in the NFC? Six of the top seven QBs in the NFL this year were in the AFC... and Brees was still the first alternate. Meanwhile, Eli Manning faced the weakest QB conference I can ever remember (seriously, can we make it so that the NFC only sends 1 QB to the pro bowl, since they only have one that is deserving?), and he still can't crack the pro bowl lineup?

 

[56]

Oh, we're going to play the "Player X lost to Team Y" card, eh?

Evidently.

I *WISH* Eli Manning played for the Chargers and Brees for the Giants, because I'd rather face Manning twice a year and Brees once every 4 years than vice versa.

 

[jonessed]

Also, there's nothing to show that AJ even preferred Manning over Rivers.

He said he preferred Manning over Rivers, even right after he traded for Rivers. It's possible he just said that as part of the negotiation process (heading off Rivers' anticipated argument that he should be paid like the #1 pick), but it's also possible he was telling the truth. It's hard to know.

Link? All I remember at the time was the Chargers going on about how they got the guy they REALLY wanted.

It was on ESPN's draft coverage when AJ was interviewed right after the trade. The reporter (I forgot who it was) asked whether he had Manning or Rivers rated higher. Aj answered that they drafted the guy at #1 whom they rated the highest.

They aren't mutually exclusive. I think they wanted Rivers because of the value even though they had Eli rated higher. I doubt they had them graded that far apart. Rivers was also considered the most "NFL ready" and San Diego was looking to toss him in right away. It was only his holdout that caused Brees to take the position back.

 

[Donnybrook]

Eli's In.

You're Out.

Karma police arrest this man..

 

[Trey]

Damn Eli is looking good today.

 

[SSOG]

Eli's In.

You're Out.

Karma police arrest this man..

Giants fans, reality. Reality, Giants fans. So glad you could finally make each other's acquaintance.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Eli's In.

You're Out.

Karma police arrest this man..

Notice both Bucs fans and NYG fans jumping all over the Chargers.Now you guys are watching too.

Nice game Eli!!!

 

[BloodyPigSkin]

Eli's In.

You're Out.

Go Eli

 

[Ghost Rider]

Eli's In.

You're Out.

Karma police arrest this man..

Congratulations. You just won the 'Post of the Day' award.

 

[Capella]

Eli's In.

You're Out.

Karma police arrest this man..

Notice both Bucs fans and NYG fans jumping all over the Chargers.Now you guys are watching too.

Nice game Eli!!!

The Bucs and Giants both won their divisions and made the playoffs with young QBs. Chargers did nothing this year other than blow good opportunity after good opportunity. You can't sit here and act like they had anywhere near as good of a season.

 

[Ghost Rider]

The Bucs and Giants both won their divisions and made the playoffs with young QBs.

Chargers did nothing this year other than blow good opportunity after good opportunity. You can't sit here and act like they had anywhere near as good of a season.

You really should read this whole thread first. Some have tried to say that the Giants got the better of the trade since they made the playoffs and the Chargers did not, which is ignoring the fact that each team has now made the playoffs once since the trade and each lost a home playoff game. Still, I think the Chargers have a lot more upside for the future than the Giants do.

 

[Capella]

The Bucs and Giants both won their divisions and made the playoffs with young QBs.

Chargers did nothing this year other than blow good opportunity after good opportunity. You can't sit here and act like they had anywhere near as good of a season.

You really should read this whole thread first. Some have tried to say that the Giants got the better of the trade since they made the playoffs and the Chargers did not, which is ignoring the fact that each team has now made the playoffs once since the trade and each lost a home playoff game. Still, I think the Chargers have a lot more upside for the future than the Giants do.

I was just making a point on that particular post.

 

[Synthesizer]

Eli's QB rating through 3 and a half quarters.... 27.6.

 

[Dr. Pepper]

In Tommy's world, every NFC team is going to lose in the playoffs this year.

Nope. Just the Bucs and Gints.

so both teams that are likely to host first-round games are going to lose?again, care to wager on that? or are you just going to run your mouth (again) without backing it up?

also, how are the Chargers going to do in the playoffs this year?

how did this work out for you, big mouth...

 

[Ghost Rider]

The Bucs and Giants both won their divisions and made the playoffs with young QBs.

Chargers did nothing this year other than blow good opportunity after good opportunity. You can't sit here and act like they had anywhere near as good of a season.

You really should read this whole thread first. Some have tried to say that the Giants got the better of the trade since they made the playoffs and the Chargers did not, which is ignoring the fact that each team has now made the playoffs once since the trade and each lost a home playoff game. Still, I think the Chargers have a lot more upside for the future than the Giants do.

I was just making a point on that particular post.

Fair enough.

 

[Koya]

Eli's In.

You're Out.

Karma police arrest this man..

Notice both Bucs fans and NYG fans jumping all over the Chargers.Now you guys are watching too.

Nice game Eli!!!

It was a very ugly learning day - and an important one for a young franchise QB. We won the division, went to the playoffs - and now have a reason for the team to be pissed about how things ended, and Coughlin will have them back, considerably better and wise, next year.Great year Giants - and awful day aside (and it was AWFUL, by Eli and a lot of others), great job bringing Manning, not giving up Umi and giving the Giants a very bright future.

Hopefully for SD Brees will be able to comeback, and not become another Pennington.

 

[ren hoek]

Wow, did these Giants choke today or what?

 

[Capella]

In Tommy's world, every NFC team is going to lose in the playoffs this year.

Nope. Just the Bucs and Gints.

so both teams that are likely to host first-round games are going to lose?again, care to wager on that? or are you just going to run your mouth (again) without backing it up?

also, how are the Chargers going to do in the playoffs this year?

how did this work out for you, big mouth...

He didn't take the bet, so it worked out just fine Zippy.

 

[Koya]

Wow, did these Giants choke today or what?

Not really a choke. They were just thoroughly and completely outplayed. A very young QB who was lost out there, and no one gave him much of a hand. Couple that with having no LBs, and Carolina just slowly took control of the game, minute by minute. It was an embarassing showing, but perhaps a valuable team lesson going into next year.

If Carolina plays well, they are going to the Super Bowl. No other team can bring the balance of great Defense (solid against the run and pass, plus they get turnovers) along with runnings and passing on offense. Good STs to boot.

 

[SSOG]

Wow, did these Giants choke today or what?

Not really a choke. They were just thoroughly and completely outplayed. A very young QB who was lost out there, and no one gave him much of a hand. Couple that with having no LBs, and Carolina just slowly took control of the game, minute by minute. It was an embarassing showing, but perhaps a valuable team lesson going into next year.

If Carolina plays well, they are going to the Super Bowl. No other team can bring the balance of great Defense (solid against the run and pass, plus they get turnovers) along with runnings and passing on offense. Good STs to boot.

No playoff losses are valuable. Ever. Especially with as much turnover between playoff teams from year to year. Over 50% of last year's playoff teams (Philly, Green Bay, Minnesota, St. Louis, Atlanta, San Diego, NYJ) failed to make the playoffs this season. You gotta win when you're in, because you don't know when you'll be back.With regards to Eli Manning... Back after the November 1st game, Aaron Schatz (a writer for www.footballoutsiders.com) made the following observation:

Eli Manning is having one of the strangest quarterback seasons of all time, combining a terrible completion percentage with an uncanny ability to avoid interceptions. Right now, Manning has completed just 52 percent of his passes -- the league average is 60 percent -- but has 14 touchdowns and five interceptions. Here's a list of all the quarterbacks since the 16-game season began in 1978 who fit the following criteria:

* less than a 55 percent completion percentage

* at least twice as many touchdowns as interceptions

* at least 300 pass attempts

Player Year Team COMP ATT COMP% PaYD PaTD INT

Jay Schroeder 1990 RAI 182 334 54.5% 2849 19 9

Trent Green 1998 WAS 278 509 54.6% 3441 23 11

Tony Banks 1999 BAL 169 320 52.8% 2136 17 8

Michael Vick 2002 ATL 231 421 54.9% 2936 16 8

Eli Manning 2005 NYG 266 516 51.6% 3622 28 10

Manning's numbers are pro-rated to 16 games for comparison. Not only are there only four quarterbacks that qualify, but each one of them had a higher completion percentage than Manning has, and a worse touchdown-to-interception ratio.

Frankly, the chances of Manning continuing this for an entire season are remote. He either needs to get more accurate, or he's bound to throw some picks sooner or later.

Here's the link: http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5062120#randomSince Schatz made that prediction, Eli Manning has thrown 10 TDs and 15 INTs.

 

[Boltman]

This Charger fan suddenly feels a lttle better.

 

[tommyGunZ]

In Tommy's world, every NFC team is going to lose in the playoffs this year.

Nope. Just the Bucs and Gints.

so both teams that are likely to host first-round games are going to lose?again, care to wager on that? or are you just going to run your mouth (again) without backing it up?

also, how are the Chargers going to do in the playoffs this year?

$250?

 

[Capella]

In Tommy's world, every NFC team is going to lose in the playoffs this year.

Nope. Just the Bucs and Gints.

so both teams that are likely to host first-round games are going to lose?again, care to wager on that? or are you just going to run your mouth (again) without backing it up?

also, how are the Chargers going to do in the playoffs this year?

$250?

$250?This post has been edited by tommyGunZ: Today, 04:51 PM

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Eli's In.

You're Out.

Karma police arrest this man..

Notice both Bucs fans and NYG fans jumping all over the Chargers.Now you guys are watching too.

Nice game Eli!!!

The Bucs and Giants both won their divisions and made the playoffs with young QBs. Chargers did nothing this year other than blow good opportunity after good opportunity. You can't sit here and act like they had anywhere near as good of a season.

I didnt start the thread.I didnt say anything about the bolts season

Eli choked hard today, which was my point.

And buc fans like you where just jumping on the charger hate too.

Have fun watching the rest of the playoffs with us. And we'll see who's there next year.

 

[ThisGuy]

Well at least the Giants future is bright. They'll come back healthier and hungrier next year. Great game by the Panthers.

 

[BoltBacker]

Well at least the Giants future is bright. They'll come back healthier and hungrier next year. Great game by the Panthers.

Props to you for making an appearance in what has to be an embarrassing thread in retrospect. Even bigger props for congratulating CAR on a well played game, they were a much better wild-card road team than usual imo. Eli is still WAYYYY ahead of where I would have pegged him at this point in his career so I agree with you, the future is bright for the Giants. Better to experience the playoffs and have growing pains than go without playoff experience at all.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Well at least the Giants future is bright.  They'll come back healthier and hungrier next year.  Great game by the Panthers.

Props to you for making an appearance in what has to be an embarrassing thread in retrospect. Even bigger props for congratulating CAR on a well played game, they were a much better wild-card road team than usual imo. Eli is still WAYYYY ahead of where I would have pegged him at this point in his career so I agree with you, the future is bright for the Giants. Better to experience the playoffs and have growing pains than go without playoff experience at all.

I think Peyton got shut out in his first playoff game to.didnt the jets smoke him 41-0 or somthing like that?

 

[GRIDIRON ASSASSIN]

Kudos to Eli Manning, he threw 10 more completions since the season ended....and 3 more interceptions....and sacked 4 more times.

 

[56]

Wow, did these Giants choke today or what?

Not really a choke. They were just thoroughly and completely outplayed. A very young QB who was lost out there, and no one gave him much of a hand. Couple that with having no LBs, and Carolina just slowly took control of the game, minute by minute. It was an embarassing showing, but perhaps a valuable team lesson going into next year.

If Carolina plays well, they are going to the Super Bowl. No other team can bring the balance of great Defense (solid against the run and pass, plus they get turnovers) along with runnings and passing on offense. Good STs to boot.

Sure it was. No other way to put it, really. Certainly no other way if you consider the context of this thread. It was a big spot for Manning, and he came up short. Way short. On this day, I'd of rather had Brees back there. Or Stan Humphries. Maybe even a hot John Friesz. None of them could have been worse.

There have been games this year that the Giants lost, and most of us Giant fans would point out that the Giants didn't lose because of Manning. Today was not one of those days. I think that he is going to get there, but he is not there yet. My money is on sooner than later.

Also have to give credit to the Panthers. They said they were going to stop Tiki, and make Manning beat them. They did just that, and made it look easy.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I think Peyton got shut out in his first playoff game to.

didnt the jets smoke him 41-0 or somthing like that?

IIRC, that loss to the Jets was Peyton's 3rd playoff appearance. The first followed the '99 season. The Colts lost 19-16 to the Titans in the divisional round.

The second followed the '00 season. The Colts lost a wild card game at Miami 23-17 in overtime.

 

[Gr00vus]

Tampa will be leaving us in round 2 this year. I hope that gives you a warm fuzzy.

Tampa won a Super Bowl on San Diego's field.That sure gave me a warm fuzzy.

Yep I got owned all right - the Bucs went fetal in the 1st round instead of the second like I thought.Nice job Cappy!

Have a nice offseason back at ya.

 

[Gr00vus]

In Tommy's world, every NFC team is going to lose in the playoffs this year.

Nope. Just the Bucs and Gints.

so both teams that are likely to host first-round games are going to lose?again, care to wager on that? or are you just going to run your mouth (again) without backing it up?

also, how are the Chargers going to do in the playoffs this year?

I didn't see where he said they would both lose in the FIRST round, just that they were going to lose in the playoffs. You have to see the likelihood of the Giants and Bucs losing in the playoffs this year...

He said in another thread the Bucs were going to lose in the first round. He said in THIS thread the Giants were going one and done.

 

[Gr00vus]

Wow, did these Giants choke today or what?

Not really a choke. They were just thoroughly and completely outplayed. A very young QB who was lost out there, and no one gave him much of a hand. Couple that with having no LBs, and Carolina just slowly took control of the game, minute by minute. It was an embarassing showing, but perhaps a valuable team lesson going into next year.

If Carolina plays well, they are going to the Super Bowl. No other team can bring the balance of great Defense (solid against the run and pass, plus they get turnovers) along with runnings and passing on offense. Good STs to boot.

Sure it was. No other way to put it, really. Certainly no other way if you consider the context of this thread. It was a big spot for Manning, and he came up short. Way short. On this day, I'd of rather had Brees back there. Or Stan Humphries. Maybe even a hot John Friesz. None of them could have been worse.

There have been games this year that the Giants lost, and most of us Giant fans would point out that the Giants didn't lose because of Manning. Today was not one of those days. I think that he is going to get there, but he is not there yet. My money is on sooner than later.

Also have to give credit to the Panthers. They said they were going to stop Tiki, and make Manning beat them. They did just that, and made it look easy.

Kudos to you for coming back and taking your lumps - maybe next time you won't be so caustic.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

I think Peyton got shut out in his first playoff game to.

didnt the jets smoke him 41-0 or somthing like that?

IIRC, that loss to the Jets was Peyton's 3rd playoff appearance. The first followed the '99 season. The Colts lost 19-16 to the Titans in the divisional round.

The second followed the '00 season. The Colts lost a wild card game at Miami 23-17 in overtime.

shows what I know.He stunk in that jets game though,

 

[TheLaw]

As a Steelers fan, the Chargers future scares me, especially if they turn Rivers into a few more young horses. Charges won the trade hands down. Eli locks onto targets, makes poor decisions, is inaccurate, and is a very bland type of leader. Like I said in another thread, the G-men are lucky to win 8 next season.

 

[56]

Wow, did these Giants choke today or what?

Not really a choke. They were just thoroughly and completely outplayed. A very young QB who was lost out there, and no one gave him much of a hand. Couple that with having no LBs, and Carolina just slowly took control of the game, minute by minute. It was an embarassing showing, but perhaps a valuable team lesson going into next year.

If Carolina plays well, they are going to the Super Bowl. No other team can bring the balance of great Defense (solid against the run and pass, plus they get turnovers) along with runnings and passing on offense. Good STs to boot.

Sure it was. No other way to put it, really. Certainly no other way if you consider the context of this thread. It was a big spot for Manning, and he came up short. Way short. On this day, I'd of rather had Brees back there. Or Stan Humphries. Maybe even a hot John Friesz. None of them could have been worse.

There have been games this year that the Giants lost, and most of us Giant fans would point out that the Giants didn't lose because of Manning. Today was not one of those days. I think that he is going to get there, but he is not there yet. My money is on sooner than later.

Also have to give credit to the Panthers. They said they were going to stop Tiki, and make Manning beat them. They did just that, and made it look easy.

Kudos to you for coming back and taking your lumps - maybe next time you won't be so caustic.

Yeah, I'm caustic but all of these old threads about Eli sucking that have been bumped to page 1, well I guess thats just FBGs being 'excellent to one another'.

 

[Gr00vus]

Yeah, I'm caustic but all of these old threads about Eli sucking that have been bumped to page 1, well I guess thats just FBGs being 'excellent to one another'.

Why - does Eli post here?But seriously, I think most people worth their salt know Eli in fact does NOT suck. He had a bad game to be sure, and he had an up and down season, but he's going through the natural progression of developing as a young NFL qb - and to me it was a positive season for him overall. He looks much better to me right now in his progress than someone like, say, Michael Vick. So don't take it so hard - and lay off the Chargers!